UN documents severe human rights violations in SE Turkey

[Mustafa16]

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/un-doc...20170310-00272


EDIT: another link....one the Islamists here will trust more:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...181338106.html

[sister herb]

I read those documents few days ago and they tell about worrying trend of human rights and violations against them but surely some people still close their eyes and claim they are only zionist/western propaganda against benevolent leader of Turkey.

[anatolian]

The report must be shown in detail in order to decide which right of which people are violated. Some of those people whose rights are supposedly violated voilate some other peoples rights. You must know there is a terror problem in south east of Turkey.

[Mustafa16]

The report must be shown in detail in order to decide which right of which people are violated. Some of those people whose rights are supposedly violated voilate some other peoples rights. You must know there is a terror problem in south east of Turkey.

Just as Assad's military is too harsh on civilians in rebel held areas, Erdogan's military is too harsh on civilians in PKK-held territory, and considers it all "collateral damage" like Assad.

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[sister herb]

Just as Assad's military is too harsh on civilians in rebel held areas, Erdogan's military is too harsh on civilians in PKK-held territory, and considers it all "collateral damage" like Assad.

That´s right. When Assad´s regime attacks against people, we are ready to condemn it but when some other, who is labeled as "a good leader" and his regime do same, we should to be as honest to ourselves and condemn all attacks against human rights - no matter who has done it.

By other logic, Assad too has "a terror problem" in his country as there are many military groups operating in there (one´s liberation fighter if other´s terrorist). Should we be quiet about it?

[Simple_Person]

My argument to Turks is very simple and i NEVER get a straight answer or even a answer to begin with.

Turks call PKK a terrorist organization. If you ask people who are PRO-PKK, they say our REASON to exist is because of Turkish oppression. Then you ask them, what is this "oppression" you are talking about? They then come up with evidence after evidence. What kind of evidence?

- Kurds are still not being recognized as separate people.
- Till even i believe 10-15 years ago Kurdish language was banned (correct me if i am wrong on this..or maybe somewhere in the 90's).
- Kurdish language is still not allowed to be given in public schools in Kurdish area's.
- Kurds who want to give their children Kurdish names are met with hostility and resistance.
- Having even Kurdish flag is seen as a hostility in Turkey.
AND MUCH MORE.

Then is my argument very easy. Turks say they are Muslims. Within Islam we Muslims have Qur'an and Hadith.

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:14

We know which things are from sheytan and which things are from Allah(swt). Language being one of them for example. Kurdish clothes also belonged to the Kurdish culture and nothing unIslamic about those. So all those years of banning them from wearing ..is against what Allah(swt) has made right? Even language that is still not allowed to be tought in public schools in Kurdish areas..is against what Allah(swt) has created right?

Then we have also hadith..

"Anas ibn Malik reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “None of you will have faith until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 13, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 45

Source used: http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com...-for-yourself/

So the Turks wish to have all kind of things, but do not wish the Kurds to have the same. Isn't this hypocrisy?

They say Constantinople is Turkish. I am of opinion that it never belonged to the Muslims to begin with as it was by force grabbed. I have heard from a Turk saying, yeah but in Constantinople almost no Orthodox Christian live. Then i brought the argument of well in south East modern day Turkey live almost no Turks..so i guess it belongs to the Kurds...

The dishonesty with these people is killing me.

They say we HATE PKK, but not Kurds. What has PKK to do with Kurdish language Or just recently that Kurdish flag was hung at Ataturk airport. WEEEJOOH..the hate of the Turks about that. What has THAT flag to do with PKK? Please do answer these questions because i am dying to know the answer to it.

http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/3...sident-Barzani

They say we HATE PKK, but not Kurds. Well Turks believe in democracy right? What about giving a referendum to all the Kurds and asking them if they want a independent Kurdish state or want to be part of Turkey. If the majority wants to be part of Turkey then all the Kurds will fight against PKK together even. However why isn't this done then? To me it looks like the Turks KNOW if they would give out a referendum..the majority will want to split.

PLEASE answer some Turkish person here..what is going on..because all i see and feel is dishonesty from Turkish side. Do you guys think this oppression and dishonesty will not be brought up on the Day of Judgement? All your deeds you think will belong to yourself when you are not standing up against injustice? Are you taking Allah(swt) as if He is being blind and not seeing these things? Please a reply..

[anatolian]

You cant compare Syria with Turkey. There is a major public resistance in Syria against a tyriant. In the SE of Turkey there is a local terrorist group and majority of the ethnic group which they supposedly defend do not support them. They are desparetly terrorizing their own people to find support. Also there is not a PKK held territory anywhere in Turkey. Learn your facts before making such big claims my friend. There was a two sided truce over there but PKK violated it at first as we expect from them.

[Simple_Person]

-

You are a Turk right? Can you please answer my questions. They are a comment above yours.

[sister herb]

Armed resistance in Turkey is also "a resistance against tyrant" - to those other people.

[Mustafa16]

You cant compare Syria with Turkey. There is a major public resistance in Syria against a tyriant. In the SE of Turkey there is a local terrorist group and majority of the ethnic group which they supposedly defend do not support them. They are desparetly terrorizing their own people to find support. Also there is not a PKK held territory anywhere in Turkey. Learn your facts before making such big claims my friend. There was a two sided truce over there but PKK violated it at first as we expect from them.

first of all, Erdogan himself is a tyrant, who has thrown, if I'm not mistaken, half of the HDP lawmakers in prison.....second, the PKK denied having broken the truce, saying it was groups not directly connected to them that killed the Turkish troops, and only after the Turkish government was preventing the PKK from fighting against ISIS in Kobane.....EDIT: Third: One could argue the same thing about Erdogan with the Gezi Park protests.... about "a large public resistance"

[anatolian]

You are a Turk right? Can you please answer my questions. They are a comment above yours.

My post was a reply to mustafa but it has already some answers to your uestions. I will try to specifically answer your post when i have time

[Mustafa16]

You cant compare Syria with Turkey. There is a major public resistance in Syria against a tyriant. In the SE of Turkey there is a local terrorist group and majority of the ethnic group which they supposedly defend do not support them. They are desparetly terrorizing their own people to find support. Also there is not a PKK held territory anywhere in Turkey. Learn your facts before making such big claims my friend. There was a two sided truce over there but PKK violated it at first as we expect from them.

fourth, it is still wrong to target civilians in response to attacks by an armed group in their area.

[sister herb]

fourth, it is still wrong to target civilians in response to attacks by an armed group in their area.

With this attacker will says that those armed forces should not hide behind of civilians, to make sure that there wouldn´t become civilian casualties.

And then those armed forces will say they are there also to protect civilians against the oppressors acts against civilians itself.


I have had just this kind of discussions several times during years (about the situation of Palestine but basic methods how oppressor and resistance work and think are similar everywhere).

[Simple_Person]

My post was a reply to mustafa but it has already some answers to your uestions. I will try to specifically answer your post when i have time

Strange because i read your reply couple of times, but don't see really a answer to it. If you would argue that the local population is being against PKK, i am myself a Kurd. There are those village guards that are being paid by Turkish government to protect the Kurds. However Kurds including myself see those people as traitors as there is no such a thing as protecting the Kurds from PKK especially in this day and age. These village "guards" even use their own status to intimate locals. Or are you saying you know as a Turk better what Kurds want and feel than me as i myself am a Kurd?

I will in'sha'Allah be waiting for your reply to all those answers

[Simple_Person]

With this attacker will says that those armed forces should not hide behind of civilians, to make sure that there wouldn´t become civilian casualties.

And then those armed forces will say they are there also to protect civilians against the oppressors acts against civilians itself.


I have had just this kind of discussions several times during years (about the situation of Palestine but basic methods how oppressor and resistance work and think are similar everywhere).

The thought of no oppressor will be let go or have a free ticket on the Day of Judgement is indeed a very reassuring thought and feeling.

[anatolian]

Strange because i read your reply couple of times, but don't see really a answer to it. If you would argue that the local population is being against PKK, i am myself a Kurd. There are those village guards that are being paid by Turkish government to protect the Kurds. However Kurds including myself see those people as traitors as there is no such a thing as protecting the Kurds from PKK especially in this day and age. These village "guards" even use their own status to intimate locals. Or are you saying you know as a Turk better what Kurds want and feel than me as i myself am a Kurd?

I will in'sha'Allah be waiting for your reply to all those answers

I am not in a position to answer your questions for the matter. Dont think that I have such a eesponsibility. I just can share the information I have. You are a Kurd alright but are you a Turkish Kurd or are you even living in Turkey? I do. And I know many Kurds who think this way. Kurds of Turkey are separated on that. Village guards are doing a good job theorically but if there are the ones who misuse their jobs it is their fault not the constitution. PKK have always tageted Kurds who did not support them since their beginning. There are many Kurds who support PKK under pressure. If you regard those village guardians as traitors either you are ignorant or you are just another terrorist mind guy. If it is later I dont think we can achieve any thing with this disscusion

[anatolian]

fourth, it is still wrong to target civilians in response to attacks by an armed group in their area.

Who are targeting civillians? Detail please

[Simple_Person]

I am not in a position to answer your questions for the matter. Dont think that I have such a eesponsibility. I just can share the information I have. You are a Kurd alright but are you a Turkish Kurd or are you even living in Turkey? I do. And I know many Kurds who think this way. Kurds of Turkey are separated on that. Village guards are doing a good job theorically but if there are the ones who misuse their jobs it is their fault not the constitution. PKK have always tageted Kurds who did not support them since their beginning. There are many Kurds who support PKK under pressure. If you regard those village guardians as traitors either you are ignorant or you are just another terrorist mind guy. If it is later I dont think we can achieve any thing with this disscusion

It is strange that you still do not give me the answers. Please do answer my questions first, then i will answer what needs to be answered. I have always have issues with Turks regarding this. They never answer my questions..they just say something and that is that...This is my original comment that i need answers to.

My argument to Turks is very simple and i NEVER get a straight answer or even a answer to begin with.

Turks call PKK a terrorist organization. If you ask people who are PRO-PKK, they say our REASON to exist is because of Turkish oppression. Then you ask them, what is this "oppression" you are talking about? They then come up with evidence after evidence. What kind of evidence?

- Kurds are still not being recognized as separate people.
- Till even i believe 10-15 years ago Kurdish language was banned (correct me if i am wrong on this..or maybe somewhere in the 90's).
- Kurdish language is still not allowed to be given in public schools in Kurdish area's.
- Kurds who want to give their children Kurdish names are met with hostility and resistance.
- Having even Kurdish flag is seen as a hostility in Turkey.
AND MUCH MORE.

Then is my argument very easy. Turks say they are Muslims. Within Islam we Muslims have Qur'an and Hadith.

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:14

We know which things are from sheytan and which things are from Allah(swt). Language being one of them for example. Kurdish clothes also belonged to the Kurdish culture and nothing unIslamic about those. So all those years of banning them from wearing ..is against what Allah(swt) has made right? Even language that is still not allowed to be tought in public schools in Kurdish areas..is against what Allah(swt) has created right?

Then we have also hadith..

"Anas ibn Malik reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “None of you will have faith until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 13, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 45

Source used: http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com...-for-yourself/

So the Turks wish to have all kind of things, but do not wish the Kurds to have the same. Isn't this hypocrisy?

They say Constantinople is Turkish. I am of opinion that it never belonged to the Muslims to begin with as it was by force grabbed. I have heard from a Turk saying, yeah but in Constantinople almost no Orthodox Christian live. Then i brought the argument of well in south East modern day Turkey live almost no Turks..so i guess it belongs to the Kurds...

The dishonesty with these people is killing me.

They say we HATE PKK, but not Kurds. What has PKK to do with Kurdish language Or just recently that Kurdish flag was hung at Ataturk airport. WEEEJOOH..the hate of the Turks about that. What has THAT flag to do with PKK? Please do answer these questions because i am dying to know the answer to it.

http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/3...sident-Barzani

They say we HATE PKK, but not Kurds. Well Turks believe in democracy right? What about giving a referendum to all the Kurds and asking them if they want a independent Kurdish state or want to be part of Turkey. If the majority wants to be part of Turkey then all the Kurds will fight against PKK together even. However why isn't this done then? To me it looks like the Turks KNOW if they would give out a referendum..the majority will want to split.

PLEASE answer some Turkish person here..what is going on..because all i see and feel is dishonesty from Turkish side. Do you guys think this oppression and dishonesty will not be brought up on the Day of Judgement? All your deeds you think will belong to yourself when you are not standing up against injustice? Are you taking Allah(swt) as if He is being blind and not seeing these things? Please a reply..