Who does one support in Syria?

[TDWT]

I have been wondering, who does one support in Syria? I know not Assad since his regime is whack but who? I figured it was the free syrian army or something?

[Aryeh Jay]

The common people that just want to live in peace.

[Simple_Person]

Somebody once told me to know who you support you must know who is financing them. So in case of rebels and you name it..from Turkey to Us to Saudi and gulf states. Do even one of these have Islamic principles in thought?...Nope..only power..greed..control..nationalism..pride.

So in the modern day we are GIVEN two choices. This is happening everywhere. Are you with us or are you with them?. And "them" they also will ask you are you with us or are you with them? The people who don't take a moment to ponder about this question will choose one of the two. While there is also a third answer...I am not for either one of you.

Just recently I noticed that in western countries they are you could say begging you to vote during elections. I found it rather strange. The political parties didn't care for a bit that you will not even vote for them but as long as you just vote. Which I was pondering about of why is this?. I mean ..these political parties are liars and deceivers so how come they beg me to vote not even caring to vote for them?. I realized that by not voting their whole scam collapses. So the best thing to do is not to vote..which is how you as an individual and society will "win" the game.

As during election results the amount of people who did not vote will also be visible for the masses to see. When people see every election the amount of people that did not vote has risen again they start asking questions. Asking questions is NOT good for liars and deceivers as their whole scam will become transparent.

[ardianto]

I have been wondering, who does one support in Syria? I know not Assad since his regime is whack but who? I figured it was the free syrian army or something?

Don't stand with those who hold weapon,but stand with those who try to save humanity.

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[al-Andalusi]

There's really no one I can support in this conflict

I can't support Assad. Ba'athism is just wrong, and nothing more than National Socialism in disguise

IS and Al-Nusra are two of the same kind of terrorist monster

FSA and Rojava are both Nationalistic , and thus I cannot side with either of them.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you TDWT;

Too many people have suffered the loss of family and friends, their homes, jobs, education for their children, and so they have the right to be angry. But if you retaliate in anger, a death for a death, destroying property for property, etc, then more people suffer. Civil wars can last for years.

The solution is not in human nature, the real and lasting solution is prayer, patience, forgiveness and mercy.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God,

Eric

[aaj]

Don't stand with those who hold weapon,but stand with those who try to save humanity.

Are you trying to say jihad is not part of Islam? That's the only way to save Muslims these days, look at burma, kashmir, falestine, syria, etc.. Do you think throwing rose petals at the butchers will save humanity?


I agree with the said statement, look who is financing them and you will know who you can root for.

[Serinity]

:salam:

Idk who to support either. USA I can't, ISIS, I can't cuz they are extremists, and are intolerant. Any other sect, just no, go away.. I don't want to join any "group" or organisation.

my religion is Islam, and I do what it tells me... So I will just help the refugees........ Cuz what else? If I go in I don't even KNOW who I am fighting, why am I fighting, and why should I fight? And going in and supporting anyone, without knowledge is a recipe for chaos.

I want to kill Assad, and those who torture innocents. But I have no power to do that. So I guess, read Qur'aan GAIN taqwaa do NOT fear anyone, only Allah should be feared.

Don't fear democracy, or the people.

Allahu alam.

[piXie]

Don't stand with those who hold weapon,but stand with those who try to save humanity.

The reality is that Muslims who make and like comments like these are pacifist cowards and afraid of defending their religion and brothers and sisters. They have lost their sense of honor and dignity and just want to stand with candles and roses.

[sister herb]

The reality is that nowadays those whose hold weapons in civil war style conflicts, only increase suffering. We should find alternative ways to solve the conflicts, not throw the fuel to the flames.

If I have to choose - I will choose the candles and roses.

By the way, I don´t think the pacifists are cowards. They might be much braver persons than those whose carry weapons. ;)

[ardianto]

The reality is that Muslims who make and like comments like these are pacifist cowards and afraid of defending their religion and brothers and sisters. They have lost their sense of honor and dignity and just want to stand with candles and roses.

Thank you very much, sis.

But I do not stand with candles and roses. I have given my candles for people who suffer from cold in the dark. I have given my roses for children who lost their parents to make them understand that they should not lose their hopes because there are always people who love them.

You don't know my life story, you don't know what I have ever experienced, you don't know what I have ever done. So you will not understand why I decide to not support any armed group in Syria, but support those who try to save the war victims.

:)

[Aryeh Jay]

I have held a weapon for over 23 years and have seen the worst of what war is. Holding a weapon and the ugly injustice of war is 80% of what lead me to Islam. As I stated before, the common people that want to live in peace are the ones I will support.

The USA does not care about peace.

Assad does not care about peace.

Russia does not care about peace.

The Zionists do not care about peace.

ISIS does not care about peace.

[aaj]

The command to wage jihad for the sake of Allaah, and the warning against neglecting jihad, appear in many verses of the Qur’aan and ahaadeeth.


If the Muslims neglect jihad for the sake of Allaah, and prefer a life of ease, and focus only on this world, they will face humiliation and scorn, and all their affairs will be corrupted. They expose themselves to the wrath and anger of Allaah, and they expose Islam to loss and defeat at the hands of kufr. Hence neglecting jihad is a major sin.

https://islamqa.info/en/46807

The ummah is in the state it is because Muslims want to pass around candles and roses, while muslimahs are being brutally gang raped and men and boys tortured and chopped to pieces.

Would Muslims still be passing candles and roses around if it was their family?

Remember, you are not a true believer until you love for your brother/sister what you love for yourself.

Ummah needs defenders that come to protect her honor and blood, not add salt to the wounds.

[sister herb]

Taking part to jihad is one thing and taking part to the civil war might not be the same thing at all. This discussion goes somewhere very far if we aren´t careful but start to mix them without thinking carefully. Yes, there are those armies whose say they fight for the sake of Allah but still do horrible crimes against civilians. Should we support them only because they use this magic word "jihad" while butchering innocents?

Also here are more than one way to love your sisters and brothers.

But if you know better, which one of those armies Muslims should support?

[Serinity]

:salam:

It is easy to say "I fight for Allah" but how??

I mean.. If I went to Syria RIGHT NOW. Who would I fight? Or would I just be another ant in the storm, dying while not having changed a thing? I know Assad is to be killed. Change has rarely come with purely pacifistic ways. Most protests ended in violence.

We don't support USA, Russia, Israel, or Assad, nor do we support ISIS because they are too cruel and do not help the sisters and brothers tortured by the Kuffar. All the say is "Jihad, Jihad, Jihad" but where is the Jihad if not for the sake of Allah? Why don't they beat those US soldiers who kill innocents?

Why haven't they killed Assad?

Anywayzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Allahu alam.

[aaj]

Just because someone is yelling "jihad" doesn't mean they are right.

We are given brains for a reason, so how about we use them?

Follow the money, whose financing who? you fill find the fakes and the ones fighting for the people.

And no one is suggesting to get up and go fight over there either. Intentions go a long way.

And there are many forms of Jihad. Passing candles and roses is not one of them though.

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever dies without having gone out for jihaad or having thought of doing so, dies on a branch of hypocrisy.’” (Saheeh Muslim, 3533).


Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “What is meant is that the one who does this is behaving, in this regard, like the hypocrites who stay behind and do not go out for jihaad, because not engaging in jihaad is one of the branches of hypocrisy. This hadeeth also indicates that the one who intended to do an act of worship but died before he could do it is not to be condemned to the same extent as one who died without any such intention.”

https://islamqa.info/en/2606

[Simple_Person]

Are you trying to say jihad is not part of Islam? That's the only way to save Muslims these days, look at burma, kashmir, falestine, syria, etc.. Do you think throwing rose petals at the butchers will save humanity?


I agree with the said statement, look who is financing them and you will know who you can root for.

To apply jihad one must first get theit own stuff together.

Look at Salahuddin Al-Ayubi he first got the Muslim stuff together before making March towards Jerusalem. Look now besides Rasullah (saws) and the shahaba he is being admired by Muslims and his own enemies. So to wage jihad the Muslims should first look at themselves then wage jihad. Everybody is following a greedy nationalistic so called Islamic leader.

[Simple_Person]

What I see here are two kind of groups a group is being called pacifists while just because they say ..right now there is no jihad to apply as if you mix your self in it ..you will be fighting for the opressors. And this group is right. Look at ANY so call3d "jihad"group..please do tell me which group is fighting for Allah?...none..because every one of those groups is being financed by the opressors one way or the other.

I have also read ..our sisters being gang raped. Look at many of our own Muslim sisters the whole corrupt feminism has risen to their brain. From their dress to walking alone outside. There is a reason why a mahram should accompany you and your havE tO dress how your mus drss. However we brothers also have lost our own dignity by not treating our own women according to Islam. Some sisters would arrogantly disobey wanting to be accompanied by a male mahram...when she becomes a victim..don't blame those sick people...blame your self for it. Islam and it's rulings by majority are clear and if sick stuff happens because we arrogantly don't want to follow cLear Islamic rules..well then you are responsible for your own actions. Or if there are sisters who want to go according to the rules..we brothers are so lazy to not accompany our own wife to the shop. How can we shout about the lesser jihad while our major jihad in us stinks from all sides. We need to clean our own act as brothers and as sisters before we can help somebody else. Even in Islam..a person must first think about their own Islam before doing da'wah to his/her family.

[aaj]

To apply jihad one must first get theit own stuff together.

You do not fully comprehend the concept of Jihad if you think it takes place only in the battle field.

What I see here are two kind of groups a group is being called pacifists while just because they say ..right now there is no jihad to apply as if you mix your self in it ..you will be fighting for the opressors. And this group is right. Look at ANY so call3d "jihad"group..please do tell me which group is fighting for Allah?...none..because every one of those groups is being financed by the opressors one way or the other.

While there are many fakes out there, there are also some real fighters that are fighting for the sake of Allah. It is not your or any one's place to label them all as the same, this is exactly what the west wants you to do.

I have also read ..our sisters being gang raped. Look at many of our own Muslim sisters the whole corrupt feminism has risen to their brain. From their dress to walking alone outside. There is a reason why a mahram should accompany you and your havE tO dress how your mus drss. However we brothers also have lost our own dignity by not treating our own women according to Islam. Some sisters would arrogantly disobey wanting to be accompanied by a male mahram...when she becomes a victim..don't blame those sick people...blame your self for it. Islam and it's rulings by majority are clear and if sick stuff happens because we arrogantly don't want to follow cLear Islamic rules..well then you are responsible for your own actions. Or if there are sisters who want to go according to the rules..we brothers are so lazy to not accompany our own wife to the shop.

You do not sit home trying to be the perfect Muslim before you decide to get up and help save your brothers and sisters. If no one stands up against oppression when jihad becomes obligatory then the sin goes on the whole community.

How can we shout about the lesser jihad while our major jihad in us stinks from all sides.

That is a fake, fabricated hadith that everyone loves to quote who love their cozy life at home.

https://www.islamicboard.com/miscell...ml#post1323034
https://islamqa.info/en/10455

[Simple_Person]

You do not fully comprehend the concept of Jihad if you think it takes place only in the battle field.



While there are many fakes out there, there are also some real fighters that are fighting for the sake of Allah. It is not your or any one's place to label them all as the same, this is exactly what the west wants you to do.



You do not sit home trying to be the perfect Muslim before you decide to get up and help save your brothers and sisters. If no one stands up against oppression when jihad becomes obligatory then the sin goes on the whole community.



That is a fake, fabricated hadith that everyone loves to quote who love their cozy life at home.

https://www.islamicboard.com/miscell...ml#post1323034
https://islamqa.info/en/10455

Who said doing nothing? The least we can do is giving sadaqa to Islamic groups in Syria for example that are there for humanitarian reason. Off course checking things around if they are legit. Second thing one could do is speak out out and educate yourself about the matter. All I see here are people shouting against Assad which is logical but being pro nationalistic FSA =_=!.

Within those groups there are honest Muslims with intend of fighting against opressing. .but when your commander commands you to do something that goes against Islam to fulfill the desires of the people who are financing your weapons and bullets...would you do it or not?. So indeed is much harder than it looks like but you make it as if we who are saying such things are cowards and value our lives in this dunya more than the akhira.

[Supernova]

Asalaamualaykum:

I sincerely make dua for all the oppressed & effected in all manifestations in that country. I even make dua for those muslims who oppress also, that Allah guide them and have mercy on them. We are all insaan and we all make mistakes.

Having said that - the problem today is that out attention has become one of globalism rather localism. Leading on from there - not only has our attention become misplaced but our sympathy and empathy been misplaced too.

Whilst Syria fall to ruins - the very moral fibre of Islamic societies, Towns, Villages, Suburbs and metropolitans have degenerated all around the world in every country.

Whilst our attention is on Syria - in our own 5/10/15 mile radius of towns we have:
- Muslims who aren't praying
- Muslims who cannot recite Al Quran
- Muslims who aren't fasting
- Muslims who drink alcohol
- Muslims who eat pork
- Muslims who live in disunity
- Talaaq is on the rise
- Boasting and flamboyance is second nature today
- We know more Hollywood and Bollywood celebs than the Prophets/Sahaba/ Sahabiath
- Istighfaraa has become as foreign as a double edged razor
- There is no modesty in anything (be it dressing/walking/talking etc)

Whilst we concern and pay attention to Syria - we ourselves have become lost in our own deen. We will meet one another for hours at end talking about Syria/ the Refugee Crisis etc but we wont even ask the person we talking to "Is your life ok?" "How are you?" "Do you need any help?"

Our personification of Islam has become the global knowledge of Syria Etc.

What is the greater tragedy ...Syria falling apart or your own locality falling apart ?

What is the greater tragedy...Syria falling apart or thousands and thousands of little Islamic localities falling apart by loosing their moral fibre in deen ?

Syria might have bombs falling on them now - but I assure you, The greatest tragedy is Shaytaan has dropped a million more bombs on the hearts & Nafs of Muslims worldwide, derailing the very muslims in our locality from Allah SWT. Whos crying when those bombs are falling ????

Wasalaam.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you aaj;

The command to wage jihad for the sake of Allaah, and the warning against neglecting jihad, appear in many verses of the Qur’aan and ahaadeeth.

Over three hundred thousand people have died, about fifty thousand of them were children. Does fighting mean another three hundred thousand have to die; in order for justice to happen? If you take your gun and just shoot someone, how will you know if you have killed an innocent person, or a murderer?

True justice can never happen, because true justice would mean that those three hundred thousand, should never have been killed in the first place. If you shoot one more person, will you just add one more death, to the injustice that has already happened?

Hence neglecting jihad is a major sin.

Is shooting an innocent person a major sin too, how can you be sure that the person you point the gun at, will be the person Allah wants you to kill?

The ummah is in the state it is because Muslims want to pass around candles and roses, while muslimahs are being brutally gang raped and men and boys tortured and chopped to pieces.

Muslims fight against Muslims in Syria, so whose side do you take>

Remember, you are not a true believer until you love for your brother/sister what you love for yourself.

The same God hears our prayers, despite our differences.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

[piXie]

We should find alternative ways to solve the conflicts, not throw the fuel to the flames.

It started as a peaceful demonstration and Assad turned it into bloodshed. What alternatives ways do u suggest? Peace talks with Assad?

If I have to choose - I will choose the candles and roses.

If you choose to stand with roses and candles when there r bullets n bombs falling in your direction - you may as well dig your own grave n lie in it.

By the way, I don´t think the pacifists are cowards. They might be much braver persons than those whose carry weapons. ;)

If they r not cowards then they have certainly lost their senses of reason and justice.

But I do not stand with candles and roses. I have given my candles for people who suffer from cold in the dark. I have given my roses for children who lost their parents to make them understand that they should not lose their hopes because there are always people who love them.

That is very thoughtful but how will that stop Assad?

I have held a weapon for over 23 years and have seen the worst of what war is. Holding a weapon and the ugly injustice of war is 80% of what lead me to Islam. As I stated before, the common people that want to live in peace are the ones I will support.

The USA does not care about peace.

Assad does not care about peace.

Russia does not care about peace.

The Zionists do not care about peace.

ISIS does not care about peace.

Exactly right. Then how will this peace be achieved when these people do not care about peace?

[sister herb]

I believe that military option causes only more victims. These are those wars nobody can win. Compare it to the civil war in Lebanon. It took 14 years and who won? Or Somalia - who won? Of course every war is unique but you can find many similarities.

Yep, negotiations is the only solution to end suffering and prevent the country to slipping to the endless post-war chaos what usually causes even more victims than the war itself.

I advice you trying to find solution by your way, I use mine.

[Serinity]

:salam:

How to bring peace? Kill Assad? How? Shoot him blank range. Assad is supported by Russia, and USA keeps bombing Syria. I can assure you, if USA WANTED ISIS out of Syria, they'd have done it already.

Vietnam war ENDED ONLY because the PEOPLE / Populace DEMONSTRATED against it. So how do you believe that USA will stop, except by demonstration?

Allahu alam.

[aaj]

Greetings and peace be with you aaj;


Over three hundred thousand people have died, about fifty thousand of them were children. Does fighting mean another three hundred thousand have to die; in order for justice to happen? If you take your gun and just shoot someone, how will you know if you have killed an innocent person, or a murderer?

True justice can never happen, because true justice would mean that those three hundred thousand, should never have been killed in the first place. If you shoot one more person, will you just add one more death, to the injustice that has already happened?


Is shooting an innocent person a major sin too, how can you be sure that the person you point the gun at, will be the person Allah wants you to kill?

Eric

By your logic, we should have stayed home and let hitler do what he wanted to do and finish his work.
By your logic, we should let the blood thirsty dicators and oppressors, warlordds and militia do whatever they want.
By your logic, Burma Muslims are in the state they are because no one is fighting back.

Talking is cheap, especially for pacifistic sitting comfortably at home behind their monitors and never bother to see what's going on in the world.

A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's burma for those who want to throw rose petals

https://islampeace1.files.wordpress....89690274_n.jpg

and this is syria

https://youtu.be/lQzGDV3XdEE

[sister herb]

And by your logic, wars will never end. As majority of the humankind still follows your logic, why we have new wars all the time? Why violence hasn´t ended the violence but increases it?

[piXie]

And by your logic, wars will never end. As majority of the humankind still follows your logic, why we have new wars all the time? Why violence hasn´t ended the violence but increases it?

So they defeated them by permission of Allah , and David killed Goliath, and Allah gave him the kingship and prophethood and taught him from that which He willed. And if it were not for Allah checking [some] people by means of others, the earth would have been corrupted, but Allah is full of bounty to the worlds. (2:251)

Sister, the Muslim world is in the situation they r because the majority of them have abandoned Jihad. While negotiations have a place u also need to realise that some criminals will not be controlled via negotiations alone. And neither will candles or roses mean anything to them.

[sister herb]

I think that many people nowadays violates the term "jihad" and justify their actions with it. That´s much bigger problem than abandoning jihad as you claim. I don´t even believe that majority has done so. That´s more danger than pacifism.


This kind of discussion leads us nowhere - as usually. We don´t even speak about same matters. Back to topic, which one of war parties Muslims should then support? Is some of the parties in this war right and others wrong? If yes, which one and why? I don´t think anyone has gave an answer to this question.

[Simple_Person]

What i find with the group that is so actively wanting to start this "jihad". You have no idea what is going on it almost seems. You see it as if it is like a walk in to the park.

Let me untangle things a bit more.

Within political strategies going on even before this all happened was that Saudi and Gulf states were planning or wanting to have oil pipelines through the Middle East (Syria-Turkey) to Europe. However Assad was in power and he off course is and has been an ally to Iran. Iran has have had their own political strategy of Iran-Iraq-Syria- Mediterranean Sea. And thus have their oil very easily and cheaply go to Europe.

US off course supporting Saudi and the Gulf states like Turkey. WHY do you think Erdogan from the start has been such a FIERCE opponent of Assad? He doesn't care about human lives as we already have seen this just greedy for power and control.

I would not be shocked if many would not even know this, because no media is bringing this up. So what is Russia doing there? Why has NATO befriended Turkey from the start? (February-1952). NATO was created in April-1949. So about 3 years later Turkey joining in. Why was NATO in the first place created? To create a force against USSR (which has fallen in 1991). Going back to Turkey. Turkey was allowed to NATO because of the having control over the bosphorus (search google maps) in Constantinople (modern day Istanbul). Why? Russia has a LARGE fleet at Crimea (Black Sea Fleet). (TADUM..you hear things clicking in your head if they haven't yet when hearing Crimea?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet

Russia has also a naval base at Tartus in Syria.

https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Tartous,+Syri%C3%AB/@34.885821,35.8489483,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x15217e77890fb9a3:0xa072a 491096e24b!8m2!3d34.8959276!4d35.8866517

(Zoom out with Google maps to see things better)

IF Turkey falls, which means Bosphurus control is OUT OF THE HANDS OF NATO!!!!!!..Let me repeat it again. IF Turkey falls, which means Bosphurus control is OUT OF THE HANDS OF NATO!!!!!! Why do you think they accept all this **** from Erdogan? Erdogan KNOWS this also..but no media is speaking out in the open.

So what gives? one might say. Look at google maps. For Russia to be able to freely go everywhere on earth..this Black sea fleet is CRUCIAL place. Why? It gives the ability to go to the Mediterranean sea (Italy, Spain, France, Greece, Libia, Egypt, Israel, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Croatia..etc. If they have NOT this ability to reach Italy from that strategy place they have to go all the way around northern sea, past UK and through Strait of Gibraltar (Spain-Morocco).

Why do you think Russia has slowly having creating good ties with Egypt and Saudi? ( Suez Canal)..and thus reach red sea and thus reach easily Arabic Sea and thus Indian Ocean. ..or ELSE they have to go ALL the way around Japanese sea.

So why does Russia help Assad so much? If they lose Latakia (Syria) naval base, they will be restricted and this is exactly what NATO wants. And one could even say that Arab spring was artificially made to make this happen just like Ukranian "Revolution" in 2014 because the president wanted to have good ties with Russia..which NATO did NOT want off course. That is why whole issue with Crimea, because NATO was planning to further weaken Russia by getting rid of that Black Sea fleet. Who belonged Crimea in the first place?

Crimea has always belonged to Russia but in 1954 it was given to Ukraine..why? Nobody knows and no logical or rational reason why you just give away some very valuable STRATEGIC Island to somebody else. Which confirms that people were working for NATO in secret (as NATO was already active for like 5 years).

So you people..yes YOU people..have it looks like very shallow understanding what Syria is about. You think this is about Assad. These liars (Mass media) will NEVER tell you the truth. If it was up to Assad..he would have fallen as easily like all those other dictators in other countries. Why do you think Muammar Gaddafi fell? Because he was a dictator? Pff..no..because he was a dictator that didn't like to take orders from NATO..which would almost give Russia another place to settle.

".....But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners." Qur'an 8:30

[sister herb]

It seems that there is no one party we should support as the war is only made because of means of greed and lust of prophit. All because of political power and money. Everyone wants their own slice from the cake.

And war is a good business for the arms dealers and arms industry.

[piXie]

I think that many people nowadays violates the term "jihad" and justify their actions with it. That´s much bigger problem than abandoning jihad as you claim. I don´t even believe that majority has done so. That´s more danger than pacifism.


This kind of discussion leads us nowhere - as usually. We don´t even speak about same matters. Back to topic, which one of war parties Muslims should then support? Is some of the parties in this war right and others wrong? If yes, which one and why? I don´t think anyone has gave an answer to this question.

My dear sister, how can we discuss which group is right or wrong when we cannot even agree upon a basic human right of self defence without calling it violence or "retaliation in anger" as brother Eric said.

The majority of members who have liked and commented here on this thread have shown their disapproval towards the Syrian people for picking up arms to even defend themselves. They have stated clearly that they will not stand with anyone who holds a weapon - despite the fact that these people have been left with little choice - if some of you want to stand with candles n roses then do so. Stand to the side and comfort the people with whatever little that you have been resorted to. But atleast - do not come on here n make sick pacifist statements to belittle the syrians who r standing up to this oppressive regime and fulfilling an obligation of Islam - the Syrians who r defending their lands, women, children n religion. You want them to be like pacifist sheep and give up their right to self defence but they will never be like pacifist sheep.

This pacifist brainwashed colonised mentality needs to be fixed first before anyone can understand or see any solution and reason.

[Serinity]

:salam:

When it comes to politics and geography, I learn best with ilustrations and world maps.

So why is Turkey with NATO? Why does NATO want bhosphorous?? (Control over the Black sea?) Why is it that RUSSIA does not attack countries not in NATO??

Why is it that if ONE does not Obey NATO, that Russia would want to go there then? Does Russia fear NATO?

I don't get it, why would Russia fear NATO? And why would a country obey NATO? And what would happen if one disobeys? And why does Russia not attack countries that has NATO? (Because of USA?)

IF Russia AND USA were enemies of each others, why doesn't USA take Russia out? Why is it that USA and Russia both act like friends when attacking Syria? If they are FRIENDS, why would Russia fear USA in invading NATO??

[Mustafa16]

Are you trying to say jihad is not part of Islam? That's the only way to save Muslims these days, look at burma, kashmir, falestine, syria, etc.. Do you think throwing rose petals at the butchers will save humanity?


I agree with the said statement, look who is financing them and you will know who you can root for.

all the "jihad" groups fighting against Assad and ISIS have committed numerous atrocities. Even the Free Syrian Army has committed ethnic cleansing and butchering of CIVILIAN Christians, Alawites, druze, etc. as well as indiscriminate shelling and killing of civilians. The war is no longer a jihad against tyranny. It has become a sectarian war of jihadi sunnis vs assad-supporting sunnis and every other religious sect, where all sides are horrible monsters.

[sister herb]

the Syrians who r defending their lands, women, children n religion.

This whole war isn´t between Syrian people and Assad regime. War didn´t start because of peaceful demonstrations. If you read the post of Simple Person (I think it was the best description of the reasons of this war I have ever read in this forum), you might understand how little part there acts the idea of jihad. Religion hasn´t much to do in this war - maybe nothing. Keeping this kind of idea in mind and spreading it, those whose are behind of the war, just keep people busy to bark the wrong tree, cause more chaos and more casualties. Those military groups in the area are only little pieces of the big game and real players move them when it suits to them or destroy them if it´s good for the bigger goals.

Only way to stop this war are negotiations. The main parties on the table will be the Russia and the USA. That´s reality, just same if you like it or not. Those big boys could end this war today if it suits to them. No it seems it doesn´t.

By the way, I am a pacifist and I am not a sheep. Stop insulting pacifists.

If you still want to see this war so simple fight between good and bad, then what party in there defends Syrian people´s rights?

[Simple_Person]

:salam:

When it comes to politics and geography, I learn best with ilustrations and world maps.

So why is Turkey with NATO? Why does NATO want bhosphorous?? (Control over the Black sea?) Why is it that RUSSIA does not attack countries not in NATO??

Why is it that if ONE does not Obey NATO, that Russia would want to go there then? Does Russia fear NATO?

I don't get it, why would Russia fear NATO? And why would a country obey NATO? And what would happen if one disobeys? And why does Russia not attack countries that has NATO? (Because of USA?)

IF Russia AND USA were enemies of each others, why doesn't USA take Russia out? Why is it that USA and Russia both act like friends when attacking Syria? If they are FRIENDS, why would Russia fear USA in invading NATO??

Open up Google maps and read my comment.

There is a small path from the Mediterranean sea to the Black Sea. This is the Bosphorus located in Constantinople (modern day Istanbul). If this path is closed, Russia cannot get their fleet anymore to the rest of the world, as that is the ONLY way out. To win something, you play step by step. Just like chess you sacrifice pawns to get what you want. But a pawn has also the ability to kill even the king. So their target is to get rid of Russia once again as USSR has collapsed in 1991. They want to do the same with modern day Russia as it has became to powerful. Just in 26 years it has already become a superpower again, while it had collapsed back then.

NATO want control over things. That which they cannot control, must be destroyed. (Such as Saddam Hussain and Ghaddaffi as two examples). Where they dictators? Yes they were. Was i fan of either one of them? Nope i wasn't. So it wasn't because they were dictators but they wanted to act against NATO by not being controlled by NATO. If you are not controlled by NATO..you will mostly join the other side (Russia, China etc.) NATO doesn't "want" control over black sea..they want to collapse Russia once again and as i have said in my other comment, Russian Black Sea fleet is located on the Crimean Island. They want to dismantle it completely.

A country not in NATO must give Russia a reason to attack. I mean why would i not want to invade your home? If there is no reason for me to..why should i? As far as i have seen by their actions, they do not seek control, they seek partnership. Have partnership that gives mutual benefit. Look up (BRICS). NATO on the other hand, they want control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVlgtcVg034

If a country does not obey NATO, they know one way or the other they will be "brought democracy"..(war) to topple the people in power in that country and replace with one who does listen to NATO.

As i said in my previous comment, the SOUL purpose of NATO was to create a alliance against USSR because it had become too powerful. USSR had their vision of conquering, but modern day Russia doesn't as far as i have seen by action. I do not listen to words, but look at actions. NATO does not want Russia to be powerful or mess with what they want things to go. For example, if you say we must do X and say we must do Y. If you are stronger than me, you just get rid of me and do X. But if i am stronger than you ..you will not able to do X.

Disobeying..well NATO will "bring freedom and democracy" to your country as they have done in many countries :).

NATO has certain rules. If one country is attacked, all the countries unite and attack the aggressor.

US cannot take Russia out, because when somebody has certain arsenal of nuclear weapons.. it will not go very easy. If you are about to die because of your enemy, wouldn't you use ALL YOUR MEANS? Why don't you think North Korea hasn't been invaded yet? Because North Korea also has the A-Bomb. Messing with a country that has the A-BOMB is NOT a good idea.

They are not friends and were never friends. USA is mostly in charge of NATO. Israel is again in charge of USA. I SUSPECT that much has to do with the end times and destruction of Israel. That is why Bolshevik Revolution in replacing Christian Orthodox Russia with Communist anti-religion USSR applied by majority Zionist Jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6p1zxKnDeM

[M.I.A.]

i think that most people support the humanitarian effort that goes on in syria..

i would hope that it is fairly used.. helps towards rebuilding the faith of the people and towards helping them live with thereselves.

honestly i have not yet seen how any war is won against the will of allah swt..

if one person lives under oppression and tyranny it is different to when a population does so.

i would believe there are other ways of introducing change..

although they also need people who have been given authority.

and those are not easy to come by.. apparently.

the peacemakers.
..
...
...because the war makers are easy to find.

tough it out, change will come..

if they planned it on the land or the people.. i do not know.

if we are true to ourselves we know, we cant ever pretend to be a thing..

the world would not allow it..

but most people wrong themselves.. and will bear witness against each other.

lol learned to box.. found myself doing a two step to get out of the way..felt stupid.

it seems syria was not united in anger.

..they would not have wanted to be united in poverty..

so maybe they will once again be united in rebuilding.

...or not.

[Serinity]

Open up Google maps and read my comment.

There is a small path from the Mediterranean sea to the Black Sea. This is the Bosphorus located in Constantinople (modern day Istanbul). If this path is closed, Russia cannot get their fleet anymore to the rest of the world, as that is the ONLY way out. To win something, you play step by step. Just like chess you sacrifice pawns to get what you want. But a pawn has also the ability to kill even the king. So their target is to get rid of Russia once again as USSR has collapsed in 1991. They want to do the same with modern day Russia as it has became to powerful. Just in 26 years it has already become a superpower again, while it had collapsed back then.

NATO want control over things. That which they cannot control, must be destroyed. (Such as Saddam Hussain and Ghaddaffi as two examples). Where they dictators? Yes they were. Was i fan of either one of them? Nope i wasn't. So it wasn't because they were dictators but they wanted to act against NATO by not being controlled by NATO. If you are not controlled by NATO..you will mostly join the other side (Russia, China etc.) NATO doesn't "want" control over black sea..they want to collapse Russia once again and as i have said in my other comment, Russian Black Sea fleet is located on the Crimean Island. They want to dismantle it completely.

A country not in NATO must give Russia a reason to attack. I mean why would i not want to invade your home? If there is no reason for me to..why should i? As far as i have seen by their actions, they do not seek control, they seek partnership. Have partnership that gives mutual benefit. Look up (BRICS). NATO on the other hand, they want control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVlgtcVg034

If a country does not obey NATO, they know one way or the other they will be "brought democracy"..(war) to topple the people in power in that country and replace with one who does listen to NATO.

As i said in my previous comment, the SOUL purpose of NATO was to create a alliance against USSR because it had become too powerful. USSR had their vision of conquering, but modern day Russia doesn't as far as i have seen by action. I do not listen to words, but look at actions. NATO does not want Russia to be powerful or mess with what they want things to go. For example, if you say we must do X and say we must do Y. If you are stronger than me, you just get rid of me and do X. But if i am stronger than you ..you will not able to do X.

Disobeying..well NATO will "bring freedom and democracy" to your country as they have done in many countries :).

NATO has certain rules. If one country is attacked, all the countries unite and attack the aggressor.

US cannot take Russia out, because when somebody has certain arsenal of nuclear weapons.. it will not go very easy. If you are about to die because of your enemy, wouldn't you use ALL YOUR MEANS? Why don't you think North Korea hasn't been invaded yet? Because North Korea also has the A-Bomb. Messing with a country that has the A-BOMB is NOT a good idea.

They are not friends and were never friends. USA is mostly in charge of NATO. Israel is again in charge of USA. I SUSPECT that much has to do with the end times and destruction of Israel. That is why Bolshevik Revolution in replacing Christian Orthodox Russia with Communist anti-religion Russia applied by majority Zionist Jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6p1zxKnDeM

So basically, if I wanted to establish a country based solely on Shariah, nothing else. Not allying myself with any country, Not with NATO, not with Russia, and not with USA and Israel. I'd be invaded.

North Korea only has small A-bombs. Not like they can hit USA from a long distance. But China would probably enter then.

Russia already has access to Latkia, according to you, in Syria, so why would Russia care about Bhosphorous?? If they can just set off from Latkia?? Unless they can't.

[Blueflame]

I believe many should stay silent incase they slander the mujahideen. Many of us have no true way of verifying what is going on. Make dua that Allah perishes the falsehood and grants victory to the mujahideen wherever they may be

And remember
Prophet (saw) said:


“Jihad will continue from the day I was sent by Allah till the last people of my nation fight against the Antichrist (Dajjal), it will neither be stopped by oppression nor abstention”.-

Abu Dawud

[Blueflame]

The Prophet (ﷺ) said: A section of my community will continue to fight for the right and overcome their opponents till the last of them fights with the Antichrist

*** sorry this was the hadith it's from kitabu-jihad in abu dawud

[sister herb]

And whose are real mujahedeen in Syria? How they can be sure that the super power parties don´t just use their actions for their own greed purposes? Now they do, unfortunately.

[Blueflame]

Even if superpowers are using them remember that Allah is the best of planners.

[sister herb]

Yes Allah is the best planner. But whose are those real mujahedeen then? That´s the matter this discussion started, I think.

[Simple_Person]

So basically, if I wanted to establish a country based solely on Shariah, nothing else. Not allying myself with any country, Not with NATO, not with Russia, and not with USA and Israel. I'd be invaded.

North Korea only has small A-bombs. Not like they can hit USA from a long distance. But China would probably enter then.

Russia already has access to Latkia, according to you, in Syria, so why would Russia care about Bhosphorous?? If they can just set off from Latkia?? Unless they can't.

You: So basically, if I wanted to establish a country based solely on Shariah, nothing else. Not allying myself with any country, Not with NATO, not with Russia, and not with USA and Israel. I'd be invaded.

Answer: Every place that sets up Islamic Shari'a that gives the real deal, you will NOT be invaded by Russia, but by NATO. Why? Because when justice is seen many people would want to be part of that. Also MANY Muslims would want to join such a country. ALSO, within Islamic Shari'a if Muslims are oppressed we MUST act. So Israel would be wiped out. So EVERYTHING is connected. If Real Islamic Caliphate would be once again set up it would stretch from Morocco to Indonesia. Or you could say 1.6 BILLION Muslims living there. ALSO..Pakistan has the A-bomb as the ONLY country that majority are Muslims. Would you then count this empire the strongest of all of them? Answer is off course. Israel would no longer exist. The Jews and Christians would be welcome to live with justice instead of secular law that promote corruption among people and try to wipe out religion all together. Justice would be brought back in to the world as has happened before when the the first 4 Caliphs were in charge. This Islamic Caliphate would have minerals, food that can grow because of good temperatures. Water..all self sufficient. Countries that object NATO such as China, Russia, South American countries, Africa..would trade and have mutual understanding based on respect and justice. ALL based on Allah(swt) law of justice. Which is contradictory for most people who are in charge as they cannot do what THEY want to do. Like the Zionist who want to rule and such.

You: North Korea only has small A-bombs. Not like they can hit USA from a long distance. But China would probably enter then.

Answer: Nobody knows how big the bombs are of North Korea. It is based on some media-outlet telling you that. If that was all the case, North Korea would already have tasted "freedom and democracy" just like many other countries have. China indeed is against all of this, because China KNOWS they(NATO) tries to hit two birds with one stone. Bringing weapons to south Korea and leaving them there even if North Korea would no longer exist. So those weapons is to keep China in control.

You: Russia already has access to Latkia, according to you, in Syria, so why would Russia care about Bhosphorous?? If they can just set off from Latkia?? Unless they can't.

Answer: Not according to me...it is so. (Correction it is Tartus not Latakia. That is more south from Latakia).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...lity_in_Tartus

Bosphorus is important to get continues help. I BELIEVE their biggest naval base on Crimean peninsula. To give you another example. A restaurant needs ingredients to cook with. If the roads to those factories that give you those ingredients are cut off..you will be only left with what you already have nothing more. So you need to have constant flow of things from one place to another. You cannot isolate a naval base and that's it.

There is a continues flow of supplies coming from Russia. But if it would happen through other ways, it would take weeks to arrive, then using Boshporus.

[Serinity]

:salam:

May Allah :swt: help the Mujahideen, wherever they are. Ameen.

Allahu alam

[Serinity]

You: So basically, if I wanted to establish a country based solely on Shariah, nothing else. Not allying myself with any country, Not with NATO, not with Russia, and not with USA and Israel. I'd be invaded.

Answer: Every place that sets up Islamic Shari'a that gives the real deal, you will NOT be invaded by Russia, but by NATO. Why? Because when justice is seen many people would want to be part of that. Also MANY Muslims would want to join such a country. ALSO, within Islamic Shari'a if Muslims are oppressed we MUST act. So Israel would be wiped out. So EVERYTHING is connected. If Real Islamic Caliphate would be once again set up it would stretch from Morocco to Indonesia. Or you could say 1.6 BILLION Muslims living there. ALSO..Pakistan has the A-bomb as the ONLY country that majority are Muslims. Would you then count this empire the strongest of all of them? Answer is off course. Israel would no longer exist. The Jews and Christians would be welcome to live with justice instead of secular law that promote corruption among people and try to wipe out religion all together. Justice would be brought back in to the world as has happened before when the the first 4 Caliphs were in charge. This Islamic Caliphate would have minerals, food that can grow because of good temperatures. Water..all self sufficient. Countries that object NATO such as China, Russia, South American countries, Africa..would trade and have mutual understanding based on respect and justice. ALL based on Allah(swt) law of justice. Which is contradictory for most people who are in charge as they cannot do what THEY want to do. Like the Zionist who want to rule and such.

You: North Korea only has small A-bombs. Not like they can hit USA from a long distance. But China would probably enter then.

Answer: Nobody knows how big the bombs are of North Korea. It is based on some media-outlet telling you that. If that was all the case, North Korea would already have tasted "freedom and democracy" just like many other countries have. China indeed is against all of this, because China KNOWS they(NATO) tries to hit two birds with one stone. Bringing weapons to south Korea and leaving them there even if North Korea would no longer exist. So those weapons is to keep China in control.

You: Russia already has access to Latkia, according to you, in Syria, so why would Russia care about Bhosphorous?? If they can just set off from Latkia?? Unless they can't.

Answer: Not according to me...it is so. (Correction it is Tartus not Latakia. That is more south from Latakia).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...lity_in_Tartus

Bosphorus is important to get continues help. I BELIEVE their biggest naval base on Crimean peninsula. To give you another example. A restaurant needs ingredients to cook with. If the roads to those factories that give you those ingredients are cut off..you will be only left with what you already have nothing more. So you need to have constant flow of things from one place to another. You cannot isolate a naval base and that's it.

There is a continues flow of supplies coming from Russia. But if it would happen through other ways, it would take weeks to arrive, then using Boshporus.

If there was an Islamic Caliphate, it'd free palestine, rid Assad, and every oppressor. So why don't we as Muslims work towards This???

So we must have Shariah law. All over middle east and it'd extend over to Turkey and afghanistan. With Shariah Law, not even the Khalifah would dare do injustice, cause he is Allah-fearing. And because the land is ruled by Shariah. If Lybia, etc. Truly are Islamic countries, it'd be easy to take over North and East Africa.

Takve over all middle East and Establish Shariah, and all of Africa.......... and Syria, and Turkey and extend over all of Balkan, and then all over India. If I was a Khalifah (a hypothesis) I'd try to bring Justice by expanding the borders to wherever there is oppression and rid all dictators, and bring Shariah Law.

We'd be huge.

Allahu alam.

[M.I.A.]

..well this is the joke isnt it.

as muslims its encumbent upon you...

to take personal responsibility.. for your actions.

do not act unjustly or become hard of heart.. and maybe tomorrow will be better.

although if you think every little thing is important.. maybe nothing gets done.

and if you are unaware of what you put forward..

then everything is truly with allah swt.


i know if i threw a punch it would come back at me just as quick..

so it amazes me how its written they stood against twice as many and won.

all power and might is with allah swt alone.

[Simple_Person]

Even if superpowers are using them remember that Allah is the best of planners.

Allah(swt) has made us and gave us tools to use. Logic, rationality and reason. Let me further explain what i mean. Person X goes to Syria with real intend, but he is aware as we are aware about those superpower and what is going on. Now we must ask these questions.

- How will i obtain a weapon?
- From who will i buy it?
- Who will give me food?
- Who will give me ammo?

Those people that supply you with weapons, ammo, food, clothing, strategic information..woow..those guys are such a nice guys that will NEVER ask anything in return.....(silence)....yes..they are such great guys that they will not ask anything in return.

- Turkey is using Arabs or others who are fighting with FSA and other groups to attack the Kurds....wait huh? What happened to Assad?
- The Kurds have already been oppressed and before the whole war started they were fighting to regain their lands and unite their people. So they attacked ISIS as ALSO ISIS has been used by Turkey to fight against the Kurds..huh?..what happened to Assad? Now the Kurds are listening to US. WHY? Because US wants to have a FIRM position in Syria as well. They do not trust the Turks, but as a Kurd myself i believe they will stab the Kurds also in the back as they have done it already. HOWEVER it will become rather difficult for them to do that. As Kurds have neutral stand towards NATO as well as towards Russia. So if NATO stabs them in the back, Russia will befriend them more. This off course NATO does not want.

So what is my political analysis to all of this? Turkey will fall 100% sure based on current knowledge and understanding. Not because i am a Kurd, but because i base things on facts. Turkey is bringing itself more and more and more towards the end. They are threatening other NATO countries. Already we know of Cyprus (invasion back in the 1974). They also are putting pressure on Greece by going over their borders with jets..which has already happening for a long time..but now because of Greece not giving back some of those guys who were supposed be involved in the false flag coup. Turkey is going more towards Russia as friends, but Russia does not see them as friends. They have not forgotten the downing of the Russian jet back in november 2015. They also have not forgotten about Constantinople and Hagia Sophia. So still how come i say Turkey will fall? Because they have started war with PKK and not chosen to go peaceful way. If Turkey leaves NATO..which will be big blow to NATO and there is a chance that multiple countries would also leave NATO (Greece for example). They have MORE in common (Orthodox Christianity) with Russia that any NATO country. So Russia would have broken the back of NATO without using 1 bullet. Just need to through your fish hook and get 1 fish..out of the pond so to say. If Turkey would not do what NATO wants..PKK would probably get all kind of anti-air and anti-tank weapons. What is Turkish forces or any forces without tanks and planes? Turkey has been fighting PKK over 3 decades and still has not been able to defeat PKK. This says more than enough you could say.

Turkey has always had 1 advantage. They were united. This unity has gone down the drain with Erdogan. Right now Erdogan among Turks have created Gulen supporters, Erdogan supporters and Kemalist. Nobody likes either one of the two. Division..which is ingredient for civil war.

[Simple_Person]

If there was an Islamic Caliphate, it'd free palestine, rid Assad, and every oppressor. So why don't we as Muslims work towards This???

So we must have Shariah law. All over middle east and it'd extend over to Turkey and afghanistan. With Shariah Law, not even the Khalifah would dare do injustice, cause he is Allah-fearing. And because the land is ruled by Shariah. If Lybia, etc. Truly are Islamic countries, it'd be easy to take over North and East Africa.

Takve over all middle East and Establish Shariah, and all of Africa.......... and Syria, and Turkey and extend over all of Balkan, and then all over India. If I was a Khalifah (a hypothesis) I'd try to bring Justice by expanding the borders to wherever there is oppression and rid all dictators, and bring Shariah Law.

We'd be huge.

Allahu alam.

Bro, nobody cares about a Islamic Caliphate. You and me might care and large other group might care, but within the Ummah is full of munafiq. That being said, secret services are actively trying to get rid of people like us. They grab us and put us in jail because we are for a REAL Islamic Caliphate and not ISIS-bogus stuff.

So what you are saying is all a dream. That is what most of us want, but Ummah has become sick and to my observation, the cleaning has started, but Allah(swt) knows best if my observations are correct of not.

[ardianto]

If Assad defeated, the opposition will start fight each other, and new 'player' probably will come.

Situation in Syria is too complicated. There are too many parties that 'play the game' in Syria with their own agendas. So the best way to end the war is through peace agreement which Assad must agree to leave his position as president.

I support the attempt to end the war in Syria through peace agreement. That's why I do not support any party that fight in Syria.

[piXie]

This whole war isn´t between Syrian people and Assad regime. War didn´t start because of peaceful demonstrations. If you read the post of Simple Person (I think it was the best description of the reasons of this war I have ever read in this forum), you might understand how little part there acts the idea of jihad. Religion hasn´t much to do in this war - maybe nothing. Keeping this kind of idea in mind and spreading it, those whose are behind of the war, just keep people busy to bark the wrong tree, cause more chaos and more casualties. Those military groups in the area are only little pieces of the big game and real players move them when it suits to them or destroy them if it´s good for the bigger goals.

Only way to stop this war are negotiations. The main parties on the table will be the Russia and the USA. That´s reality, just same if you like it or not. Those big boys could end this war today if it suits to them. No it seems it doesn´t.

By the way, I am a pacifist and I am not a sheep. Stop insulting pacifists.

If you still want to see this war so simple fight between good and bad, then what party in there defends Syrian people´s rights?

You are giving far too much power to the enemies of Islam - much more than they deserve. You have deceived yourself into thinking that this is a whole plot from them and they are using everyone in Syria as a puppet and only they (USA n Russia) can end the war via negotiations. Secondly, you are saying that everyone with a weapon in Syria is being used and fighting for their own personal agenda when you have no right to generalise and belittle all the people in Syria like that. Thirdly, you are stating that this war has nothing to do with Islam when it has great significance. These are all excuses and illusions that pacifists have because they don't believe in Jihad. If you expect the Muslim ummah to sit and wait for the enemies of Islam to have mercy and finally come to some empty negotiations - then you will be waiting forever while your brothers and sisters are being slaughtered and the banners of justice being trampled on. Even if Russia and USA agreed to stop this war - the Islamic world is being resurrected and what Allah has planned will come to pass.

That He should establish the truth and abolish falsehood, even if the criminals disliked it. (8:8)

[M.I.A.]

players..

game..
..
...
well...

everybody gets one day i suppose.



there are those that say this life.. world? is a game.

it is not a game, it is a matter of life and death.

loosely paraphrased..

its ok, as long as your screwing about in other peoples lives.


i googled it to no avail.. pretty aure it says something like that but google is not forthcoming.

[Simple_Person]

If Assad defeated, the opposition will start fight each other, and new 'player' probably will come.

Situation in Syria is too complicated. There are too many parties that 'play the game' in Syria with their own agendas. So the best way to end the war is through peace agreement which Assad must agree to leave his position as president.

I support the attempt to end the war in Syria through peace agreement. That's why I do not support any party that fight in Syria.

I am not so sure Assad "would agree". As it is not really important if Assad says even something. Russia and Iran are in charge.

This often makes me ponder about why Rasullah(saws) has talked about sham so much. The more people involved, the more complicated it becomes. NATO is involved..which is already..huge player..Russia is involved another HUGE player. Arab world is involved like Turkey. Iran is involved. I think a month ago i read that China is also slowly taking steps in involvement of Syria...who is left :).

Also the interests are not like..well guys we want all tomatoes for diner but only thing we disagree is which tomatoes to choose from. It is rather one saying we want tomatoes, the other saying we do not want any vegetables. You cannot find compromise with such huge difference of interests so to say.

Russia even supports the idea of a federation. As Assad will do his thing and have nothing to do with the rest. Even for Arabs and Kurds and other people living in Syria is good. However Turkey does not want that because of their hatred for Kurds. Erdogan in the past has stated that he regretted their political game and thus KRG (Kurdistan Regional Government)(Northern modern day Iraq) became a fact. He said they will not make the same mistake with modern day North Eastern Syria. So this is by it self a confirmation that it has NOTHING to do with fight PKK but rather preventing for Kurdish statehood.

I BELIEVE it would also be beneficial for Iran as Assad (ally to Iran) would get southern part of Syria. Which mean Iran..southern Irak (shia) and southern Syria (Alewi)..and thus Mediterranean sea.

However NATO would be the loser in this, as Russia would still have their naval base, Arab gulf countries would be losers in this as the plans for oil pipeline would not become a fact and Turkey would be a loser in this as oil pipelines from gulf countries doesn't become a fact and also Kurds yet again in another part becomes somehow autonomous.

However people IN Syria would be happy and once again be peaceful so to say. ...so who do you blame..;).

[sister herb]

If there was an Islamic Caliphate, it'd free palestine, rid Assad, and every oppressor. So why don't we as Muslims work towards This???

Because we are too busy to fight with each others and following the wrong leaders whose say they fight for Islam but actually fight for their own greed purposes only?

[sister herb]

You are giving far too much power to the enemies of Islam - much more than they deserve. You have deceived yourself into thinking that this is a whole plot from them and they are using everyone in Syria as a puppet and only they (USA n Russia) can end the war via negotiations. Secondly, you are saying that everyone with a weapon in Syria is being used and fighting for their own personal agenda when you have no right to generalise and belittle all the people in Syria like that. Thirdly, you are stating that this war has nothing to do with Islam when it has great significance. These are all excuses and illusions that pacifists have because they don't believe in Jihad. If you expect the Muslim ummah to sit and wait for the enemies of Islam to have mercy and finally come to some empty negotiations - then you will be waiting forever while your brothers and sisters are being slaughtered and the banners of justice being trampled on. Even if Russia and USA agreed to stop this war - the Islamic world is being resurrected and what Allah has planned will come to pass.

That He should establish the truth and abolish falsehood, even if the criminals disliked it. (8:8)

I agree that only Allah can force Russia and the USA to end this war in the negotiating table.

Before that those super power countries use Muslims in this war in order to achieve their own goals. They exploit those Muslims whose honestly believe they are going to do something important and valuable. That´s sad but they might be brainwashed with someones whose want to use them.

If you have proof, tell which part of this war (which group I mean) we should support?

I think there are many options:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rian_Civil_War


You are wrong. I do believe jihad. But we have to be extreme carefull what kind of acts we are calling as jihad. Some use it as magic word also in this war and they acts only increase suffering of innocents.

[piXie]

I agree that only Allah can force Russia and the USA to end this war in the negotiating table.

Allah can do a lot of things but there is a process of purification n uprising this ummah must go through - we cannot abandon our obligations and expect Allah to just force them. If you look through Islamic history you will know what the sunnah of Allaah has been with regards to checking oppression. It was abolished by Jihad - by fighting the oppressors because they were not a people who agreed to any negotiations or desired any kind of peace - read about the conquest of Syria. It did not happen by the Muslims waiting for negotiations to take place while oppression reached every part of the earth. That is like waiting for and supporting a lost cause.

Before that those super power countries use Muslims in this war in order to achieve their own goals. They exploit those Muslims whose honestly believe they are going to do something important and valuable. That´s sad but they might be brainwashed with someones whose want to use them.

They may be using some Muslims but this does not mean they r using every Muslim n controlling every group and continue to do so. Again, this belief is belittling the Muslims and giving the enemy too much power. It may seem like it but their goals r not being achieved sister and ultimately they will be destroyed when their time comes.

If you have proof, tell which part of this war (which group I mean) we should support?

Sister it is you that needs to bring proof when you say that everyone in Syria who is fighting is being used as a puppet. I didn't say that. All I have said in this thread is that we have no right to belittle and make statements generalising every group and person in Syria when we do not know what is happening on the ground. They have to defend their country and religion. This is their obligation. Whether u or anyone else stands by them or not - they cannot run away or leave their obligations.

You are wrong. I do believe jihad.

Then alhamdulillah, u r not a pacifist.

But we have to be extreme carefull what kind of acts we are calling as jihad. Some use it as magic word also in this war and they acts only increase suffering of innocents.

No one disagrees with this.

[Simple_Person]

Allah can do a lot of things but there is a process of purification n uprising this ummah must go through - we cannot abandon our obligations and expect Allah to just force them. If you look through Islamic history you will know what the sunnah of Allaah has been with regards to checking oppression. It was abolished by Jihad - by fighting the oppressors because they were not a people who agreed to any negotiations or desired any kind of peace - read about the conquest of Syria. It did not happen by the Muslims waiting for negotiations to take place while oppression reached every part of the earth. That is like waiting for and supporting a lost cause.


They may be using some Muslims but this does not mean they r using every Muslim n controlling every group and continue to do so. Again, this belief is belittling the Muslims and giving the enemy too much power. It may seem like it but their goals r not being achieved sister and ultimately they will be destroyed when their time comes.


Sister it is you that needs to bring proof when you say that everyone in Syria who is fighting is being used as a puppet. I didn't say that. All I have said in this thread is that we have no right to belittle and make statements generalising every group and person in Syria when we do not know what is happening on the ground. They have to defend their country and religion. This is their obligation. Whether u or anyone else stands by them or not - they cannot run away or leave their obligations.



Then alhamdulillah, u r not a pacifist.


No one disagrees with this.

Sister with all honesty..I'm gonna give you the proof you want but the question is will you agree?...

What is this proof?. During negotiations every time 2 parties are around the table. Assad and opposition. This opposition is US to Arab Gulf countries to Turkey. Whoever till now is not invited is treated as a terrorist group..which are Jabhat Al-Nusra (which again Turkey has secretly been providing weapons and such and ISIS which again Turkey has been providing weapons and such.). What is left so far is SDF which do not count themselves with the opposition or Assad and I believe other small groups that if not sided with opposition are totally alone..but the question is..who provides them food?..weapons and ammo somebody can gain weapons and ammo by victory of certain places but if fighting goes on for longer periods. .those bullets will also be depleted and no more food to eat..Are those people eating sand to stay alive?...somebody must be providing them with food and clothing and bullets..but that somebody doesn't offer his services free you know. This you I am not sure on purpose want to ignore or maybe just didn't notice. Turkey and Gulf states have been using those people from the start. ISIS has been such a fierce opponent to secular law and such. However you heard nothing from them towards Turkey..they understood you scratch my back and I scratch yours. As Turkey were providing them all their means as they had the borders with Turkey. When SDF(Kurds mostly) conquered to unite the cantons..SUDDENLY Turkey had to be involved..and fight ISIS o_O!!??..I know we human beings including I are stupid but not that stupid to not notice such a BIG OBVIOUS thing.

[aaj]

May Allah give victory to those fighting for the sake of Allah and for the people, and defeat and expose those causing fitna and blood shed.

https://www.facebook.com/attn/videos...c_ref=NEWSFEED

[piXie]

Sister with all honesty..I'm gonna give you the proof you want but the question is will you agree?...

What is this proof?. During negotiations every time 2 parties are around the table. Assad and opposition. This opposition is US to Arab Gulf countries to Turkey. Whoever till now is not invited is treated as a terrorist group..which are Jabhat Al-Nusra (which again Turkey has secretly been providing weapons and such and ISIS which again Turkey has been providing weapons and such.). What is left so far is SDF which do not count themselves with the opposition or Assad and I believe other small groups that if not sided with opposition are totally alone..but the question is..who provides them food?..weapons and ammo somebody can gain weapons and ammo by victory of certain places but if fighting goes on for longer periods. .those bullets will also be depleted and no more food to eat..Are those people eating sand to stay alive?...somebody must be providing them with food and clothing and bullets..but that somebody doesn't offer his services free you know. This you I am not sure on purpose want to ignore or maybe just didn't notice. Turkey and Gulf states have been using those people from the start. ISIS has been such a fierce opponent to secular law and such. However you heard nothing from them towards Turkey..they understood you scratch my back and I scratch yours. As Turkey were providing them all their means as they had the borders with Turkey. When SDF(Kurds mostly) conquered to unite the cantons..SUDDENLY Turkey had to be involved..and fight ISIS o_O!!??..I know we human beings including I are stupid but not that stupid to not notice such a BIG OBVIOUS thing.

Brother - I agree there are groups being used - I agree there are rats and infiltrations in the middle causing fitna - but I also believe there is a lot of false propaganda against our Muslim brothers who are fighting for Islam and the majority of us are believing this propaganda to the extent that you and many others are totally discrediting the Jihad in Syria. This is very sad and complete ignorance. There is a reason the enemies r surrounding Syria like vultures - they know that there is an Islamic rising taking place. And Allah will not leave Syria except that there will always be people upon the truth fighting for the truth. And Allah will assist them and support them - whether you or anyone else does or not. Therefore - before u discredit those who have sacrificed everything to defend their rights over the last 5 years - know your place and remain quiet.

May Allah give victory to those fighting for the sake of Allah and for the people, and defeat and expose those causing fitna and blood shed.

Aameen

:wasalamex

[Simple_Person]

Brother - I agree there are groups being used - I agree there are rats and infiltrations in the middle causing fitna - but I also believe there is a lot of false propaganda against our Muslim brothers who are fighting for Islam and the majority of us are believing this propaganda to the extent that you and many others are totally discrediting the Jihad in Syria. This is very sad and complete ignorance. There is a reason the enemies r surrounding Syria like vultures - they know that there is an Islamic rising taking place. And Allah will not leave Syria except that there will always be people upon the truth fighting for the truth. And Allah will assist them and support them - whether you or anyone else does or not. Therefore - before u discredit those who have sacrificed everything to defend their rights over the last 5 years - know your place and remain quiet.

:wasalamex

Sister you don't understand what i am trying to say, but i'll leave it like this as i already always say..understanding comes from Allah(swt) for you as well as for me.

Peace.

[Serinity]

May Allah give victory to those fighting for the sake of Allah and for the people, and defeat and expose those causing fitna and blood shed.

https://www.facebook.com/attn/videos...c_ref=NEWSFEED

I am appalled at the heartlessness of some people in the comments. They don't understand the concept of necessity and priority.

They want to erase the Light of Islam, but Allah :swt: refuses except to Perfect His Light.

They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allah's Light (with which Muhammad SAW has been sent - IslamicMonotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafirun (disbelievers) hate (it).

9:32

Allahu alam.

[sister herb]

^ We might not talk here about the same matters but only think we do.

[aaj]

[AbdurRahman.]

this whole war is wrong, very very wrong as in this day and age war causes massive harm, much greater than any benifit; it is better to live under opression than start a civil war and suffer a million times more

but since it has started, lets support the 'good guys'!, anti-assad coalition!

[Simple_Person]

this whole war is wrong, very very wrong as in this day and age war causes massive harm, much greater than any benifit; it is better to live under opression than start a civil war and suffer a million times more

but since it has started, lets support the 'good guys'!, anti-assad coalition!

Well no..the good guys are the ones who are anti-assad, anti-Iran, Anti-Turkey, anti-Gulf states, anti-ISIS, anti-us, anti-Russia, anti-nationalism (anti-YPG, anti-FSA and more groups like them), anti-extremism (well i do not have to spell it out..you know it yourself)

This is what I am trying to say but nobody is listening and everybody wants to join either one of those corrupt groups that are fueling the fire and in the end not really fighting oppression but rather killing people and dying for the sake of interests of those groups.

So anybody that agrees with that statement can start commenting. If you say you disagree, better give some very good objective argument to refute this

[AbdurRahman.]

Well no..the good guys are the ones who are anti-assad, anti-Iran, Anti-Turkey, anti-Gulf states, anti-ISIS, anti-us, anti-Russia, anti-nationalism (anti-YPG, anti-FSA and more groups like them), anti-extremism (well i do not have to spell it out..you know it yourself)

This is what I am trying to say but nobody is listening and everybody wants to join either one of those corrupt groups that are fueling the fire and in the end not really fighting oppression but rather killing people and dying for the sake of interests of those groups.

So anybody that agrees with that statement can start commenting. If you say you disagree, better give some very good objective argument to refute this

if we try to fight all the 'baddies' together we'll get nowhere bro! :Emoji48:

best to keep it simple! :Emoji51:

[Simple_Person]

if we try to fight all the 'baddies' together we'll get nowhere bro! :Emoji48:

best to keep it simple! :Emoji51:

Oke, that is a logical and rational view. To MY humble opinion is to have a federation or split the country up. This will piss off Turkey, Gulf states and NATO, BUT people in Syria will get peace. Assad will have his own part other people have nothing to do with him anymore. So who do you have to side with DURING PEACE TALKS?

YPG, Assad, Iran and Russia. Because they are for the solution as far as I know to split the country or make it a federation.

So the choice is very simple, you want ALL of Syria or you just want peace? You want keep shedding blood? Or do you want a middle solution? The BEST solution is federation or break up Syria in parts. As Assad will not leave anytime soon, Turkey, Gulf states and NATO don't care what Syrian people want. They are after their own political interests. Their political interests is to get whole Syria to be their puppet(Gulfstates & Turkey) and get Russia out of Syria(NATO).

So what will it be? Bloodshed till nobody is left? Or break it up..and have peace?

[Serinity]

:salam:

I think that..... That the Ummah is too split. maybe, if we as Muslims, despite our differences in sects, would unite together against the disbelievers (NATO, Russia, and USA) and keep our conflicts indoors.

Allahu alam.

[Simple_Person]

:salam:

I think that..... That the Ummah is too split. maybe, if we as Muslims, despite our differences in sects, would unite together against the disbelievers (NATO, Russia, and USA) and keep our conflicts indoors.

Allahu alam.

You said NATO, that would also include Turkey ;), as they have joined since 1952. It is not the issue of sects, that the Ummah is mostly not united, it is because of people abusing religion to gain power and stay in power. Everybody currently holding power at a country in the Middle East is the one that prevents people from uniting, as they are the puppets to CIA..or in other words Mossad behind the curtains. From Turkey to Egypt to Saudi to Pakistan.

BTW, USA also is already included in NATO.

What i also forget, Russia of today are not USSR as before 1991. The Russians of today are turning back to Orthodox Christianity and i do not believe they are in the category of disbelievers.

[Magomed]

Unfortunatelly Anwar al-Awlaki is not a reliable person to take information from. There have been cases where he has used highly dubious reasoning to justify unjusifyable acts such as bombing specifically civilian targets, thereby killing innocent men women and children. I'm not sure why people really take wisdom from him when he propagates such devient views.

[Magomed]

Well no..the good guys are the ones who are anti-assad, anti-Iran, Anti-Turkey, anti-Gulf states, anti-ISIS, anti-us, anti-Russia, anti-nationalism (anti-YPG, anti-FSA and more groups like them), anti-extremism (well i do not have to spell it out..you know it yourself)

This is what I am trying to say but nobody is listening and everybody wants to join either one of those corrupt groups that are fueling the fire and in the end not really fighting oppression but rather killing people and dying for the sake of interests of those groups.

So anybody that agrees with that statement can start commenting. If you say you disagree, better give some very good objective argument to refute this

You are right here.

IS and the Syrian army are particularly dangerous. Both slaughter en-masse and have no regard for human life at all. Foolish people think that by joining IS that they are fighting to resist the Syrian regime - however this is a fallacy, since IS are more concerned with killing those they consider apostates - which includes other jihadi groups as well as Kurds and pretty much anyone who doesn't pledge support to them. Whilst the Syrian regime were raping Muslimas in dungeons, IS were more concerned with cutting hands and killing "apostates" in areas under its control. They have shown extreme harshness to those under their rule - its sad that people who have suffered so much from oppression under the Assad dynasty were subject to such cruelty by IS...

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you aaj;

By your logic, we should have stayed home and let hitler do what he wanted to do and finish his work.

I see many similarities in what you have been saying, and what Hermon Goering said, when he was a part of the ruling class that led Germany into war.........

Hermon Goering
“Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

George Bush and Tony Blair both used the Herman Goering Nazi formula to guide their nations to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. A very easy and dangerous ideal that provokes ordinary people to pick up a gun.

Talking is cheap, especially for pacifistic sitting comfortably at home behind their monitors and never bother to see what's going on in the world.

I prefer to think of myself as a peacemaker, and to be a peace maker means you have to be in places of conflict. I have had a knife held against my throat, I don't know how many times I have been punched in my life. A couple of months ago, a lad told me he was carrying a knife, and I encouraged him to give it to me. Last night, I stood between a few drunks fighting at 3 am, sadly this often happens outside the kebab shop run by Muslims.

On rare occasions, peacemakers can overcome violence, Mahatma Ghandi and possibly Nelson Mandela, but there is a price to pay, thousands still die.

Over three hundred thousand have died in Syria, including fifty thousand children. More people with guns can only mean more unnecessary deaths. Where is God in all the death and destruction? How can you be sure that you would end up killing the people; that Allah wants you to kill?

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

[sister herb]

Here have been talking about pacifism and some people call them cowards and sheeps whose only wait their butcher coming. It tells me that some people don´t understand the pacifists at all. Let me tell you about Turkish pacifists I supported some years back.

They were a group of young men, both Turks and Kurds in Turkey whose were worried about news they read from Syria and wanted to do something to help. They bought food and medicine and some donkeys and smuggled them to Syrian people. They made many danger trips over the border area and every times risked their lives. Many of them were shot to dead during their trips but they didn´t give up but continued. Later I lost connection to them but maybe they still are somewhere with their donkeys bringing help and hope to those whose are suffering.

Cowards? Sheeps? Yep, I really respect kind of sheeps and wish to be as brave like they were.

[Simple_Person]

You are right here.

IS and the Syrian army are particularly dangerous. Both slaughter en-masse and have no regard for human life at all. Foolish people think that by joining IS that they are fighting to resist the Syrian regime - however this is a fallacy, since IS are more concerned with killing those they consider apostates - which includes other jihadi groups as well as Kurds and pretty much anyone who doesn't pledge support to them. Whilst the Syrian regime were raping Muslimas in dungeons, IS were more concerned with cutting hands and killing "apostates" in areas under its control. They have shown extreme harshness to those under their rule - its sad that people who have suffered so much from oppression under the Assad dynasty were subject to such cruelty by IS...

I am not sure how to understand your comment. It is almost translated as if you are saying group X is more cruel than group Y and thus we have to ally our self with group Y. I do not go by cruelty because cruelty isn't a logical and rational approach to be used in searching for the best solution.

That being said if we still do want to talk about cruelty..than NATO is the MOST CRUEL in this day and age. They are even more cruel than ISIS if you ask me and we all know what monsters ISIS is. Within NATO armies they have all kind of rituals that those soldiers invent to rape each other...male or female doesn't matter. They rape civilians they come to protect. ..take a look for example with US soldiers based in Japan...rape and kill civilians. From prisons to interrogation cells. So who need enemies if you have friends like these right?..

I am not saying go hate those people. Hating anybody is not good. Hate the deed not the individual.

Again my question to us all. What do we want? Further bloodshed or peace? If you want further bloodshed just don't do nothing and choose how it is right now. If you want peace I have seen seriously only 1 solution and that is federation or breakup of Syria. This is the best and the most realistic possible way for peace. The countries that do NOT want Syria to split have other motives than stop killing of bloodshed. Just think logically and rationally and you will even agree with me that indeed the countries that do not want Syria break up or in federation having other motives. These being Gulf-states, NATO and Turkey.

I have heard of breaking up Syria is in the benefit of Isreal to further divide Muslims. Have you ever wondered that war it self creates further division between people? People have always been in tribes and tribes have united under a same goal. This right now is even more beneficial as people will lose this poison called nationalism. Nationalism is not tribalism. As in case of a tribe it is the same people while nationalism is a garbage bin full of different stuff no real blood relation or religion called garbage as a unity. This is the same with nationalism.

So when people get rid of this nationalism they can once again unite under the common goal like before being reigion. The hypocrites among the people that work under the enemy would have less power and easily get rid off. The impact that hypocrites obtain power is less as less people will be influenced by them.

So anyways the best and most realistic solution is join Assad, Iran, Russia and Kurds DURING PEACE TALKS NOT IN BATTLE!!!. As these groups to my knowledge are open for a federation or split up the country.

[Scimitar]

It's far easier to answer "who does one not support in Syria?" ;)

Scimi

[Scimitar]

So anyways the best and most realistic solution is join Assad, Iran, Russia and Kurds.

this is an ignorant statement to make.

Syria is where the malhama begins - and there are no winning sides when that happens.

Only the refugees and the innocently killed are the real winners - they lost this world, but gained the next.

I would advise to read up on the ahadeeth which tell of the wars of the end time and how no orthodox sunni Muslim authority will be partisan to such wars until the Mahdi is known - yet the Muslims will be caught by the fitan (trials) of these wars before the advent of Mahdi and whosoever joins these wars - is a loser.

Please go check the ahadeeth to see whether what I tell you is my opinion - or the Prophet Muhammad pbuh advice to the future Muslims - that's you and I.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

this is an ignorant statement to make.

Syria is where the malhama begins - and there are no winning sides when that happens.

Only the refugees and the innocently killed are the real winners - they lost this world, but gained the next.

I would advise to read up on the ahadeeth which tell of the wars of the end time and how no orthodox sunni Muslim authority will be partisan to such wars until the Mahdi is known - yet the Muslims will be caught by the fitan (trials) of these wars before the advent of Mahdi and whosoever joins these wars - is a loser.

Please go check the ahadeeth to see whether what I tell you is my opinion - or the Prophet Muhammad pbuh advice to the future Muslims - that's you and I.

Scimi

Brother Syria has witnessed war also in the past when the Ottoman Empire fell/when the French were trying to take over. I am sure that during that time some people might have been thinking this is the beginning of the malhama. However that is not the right approach. You remember of a Hadith that says if you see destruction of Earth or something like that and you have a sprout in your hand..still plant that sprout. There is much wisdom in it. So it could be you are right and this is the beginning of all but still we need to find solutions and not just saying..this is the end..nevermind. YOLO as some atheist and agnostics would say. Try our best and the rest is up to Allah (swt).

[Scimitar]

Greetings and peace be with you aaj;



I see many similarities in what you have been saying, and what Hermon Goering said, when he was a part of the ruling class that led Germany into war.........

Hermon Goering
“Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

George Bush and Tony Blair both used the Herman Goering Nazi formula to guide their nations to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. A very easy and dangerous ideal that provokes ordinary people to pick up a gun.



I prefer to think of myself as a peacemaker, and to be a peace maker means you have to be in places of conflict. I have had a knife held against my throat, I don't know how many times I have been punched in my life. A couple of months ago, a lad told me he was carrying a knife, and I encouraged him to give it to me. Last night, I stood between a few drunks fighting at 3 am, sadly this often happens outside the kebab shop run by Muslims.

On rare occasions, peacemakers can overcome violence, Mahatma Ghandi and possibly Nelson Mandela, but there is a price to pay, thousands still die.

Over three hundred thousand have died in Syria, including fifty thousand children. More people with guns can only mean more unnecessary deaths. Where is God in all the death and destruction? How can you be sure that you would end up killing the people; that Allah wants you to kill?

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

I was this close - this close to leaving this forum due to the level of debate taking a massive downward corkscrew of a turn into degenerative discourse, but...

...and this is a BIG BUT...

Your post has given me hope that there are still old guard hanging around who can lend a wise service to the otherwise, flippant narratives which remain so confused, they become dangerous to read.

God bless you brother Eric!

Scimi

[Scimitar]

Brother Syria has witnessed war also in the past when the Ottoman Empire fell/when the French were trying to take over. I am sure that during that time some people might have been thinking this is the beginning of the malhama. However that is not the right approach. You remember of a Hadith that says if you see destruction of Earth or something like that and you have a sprout in your hand..still plant that sprout. There is much wisdom in it. So it could be you are right and this is the beginning of all but still we need to find solutions and not just saying..this is the end..nevermind. YOLO as some atheist and agnostics would say. Try our best and the rest is up to Allah (swt).

Planting sprouts? Is that what you are doing when you claim the best course of action is to

join Assad, Iran, Russia and Kurds.

You contradict yourself so much, it's getting boring picking it apart mate.

Please, for the sake of your own self worth - don't reveal your hypocrisy so easily.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

Planting sprouts? Is that what you are doing when you claim the best course of action is to You contradict yourself so much, it's getting boring picking it apart mate.

Please, for the sake of your own self worth - don't reveal your hypocrisy so easily.

Scimi

You often claim to be the MOST if not the only knowledgeable person on this forum yet you seem to not even understand the basic comment there is. I have said it earlier and I will say it again understanding comes from Allah. A logical and rational person would ask him/her self how come he appearantly says something and claims that I have not understood it whatsoever. Maybe he is right and I have not understood it...maybe the error lies with me and if so how come?.

That is my advice to you. What you do with it is up to you.

Peace

[Scimitar]

yet you seem to not even understand the basic comment there is. I have said it earlier and I will say it again understanding comes from Allah. A logical and rational person would ask him/her self how come he appearantly says something and claims that I have not understood it whatsoever. Maybe he is right and I have not understood it...maybe the error lies with me and if so how come?.

That is my advice to you. What you do with it is up to you.

Peace

Understanding comes from Allah - keep stating the obvious brother, it doesn't really help you to make a point. What you should do is actually google "investigative methodologies" and learn these so you can practice them in your research in these topics with great effect.

What you may find is that others are not quite there in method and you will experience the same frustrations I do when I read statements posted as fact right here on this forum where you and I reside. You have to understand, that what you post here, is read by insecure and vulnerable people who are not members and probably never will be - they will read what we write and think "they are experts" because we are on "islamic forum". Trust me, I've met quite a few members from forums I've joined, I met these members in real life and some of them - they told me stories of why they joined the forums. often because someone they care about is becoming radicalised by opinions such as yours when you posted "join Assad, the Kurds, FSA etc" in the Syria thread. That's on your head because you posted irresponsibly.

You want knowledge? Become responsible first and Allah may deem you worthy of it. With knowledge, comes responsibility. Not power.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

I have? where? this is news to me and all who know me. So please prove this, thank you.



Understanding comes from Allah - keep stating the obvious brother, it doesn't really help you to make a point. What you should do is actually google "investigative methodologies" and learn these so you can practice them in your research in these topics with great effect.

What you may find is that others are not quite there in method and you will experience the same frustrations I do when I read ignorant statements posted as fact right here on this forum where you and I reside. You have to understand, that what you post here, is read by insecure and vulnerable people who are not members and probably never will be - they will read what we write and think "they are experts" because we are on "islamic forum". Trust me, I've met quite a few members from forums I've joined, I met these members in real life and some of them - they told me stories of why they joined the forums. often because someone they care about is becoming radicalised by opinions such as yours when you posted "join Assad, the Kurds, FSA etc" in the Syria thread. That's on your head because you posted irresponsibly.

You want knowledge? Become responsible first and Allah may deem you worthy of it. You understand me bro? With knowledge, comes responsibility. Not power.

Scimi

OOOH ooooh weejoh you think I am saying literary join Assad or Russia or Isis or Kurds or whatever. My bad hahaha I would never say such a thing. What I mean join their solution to a federation / split up the country.

If you read my comments you can conclude it yourself but it seems like you are very hast in reading and concluding. As I myself as some here are stating "am a pacifist" =_=!..join those parties and the solution to a federation or break the ountry up in peace talks.

[Scimitar]

OOOH ooooh weejoh you think I am saying literary join Assad . My bad hahaha I would never say such a thing. What I mean join their solution to a federation / split up the country.

If you read my comments you can conclude it yourself but it seems like you are very hast in reading and concluding.

You are once again neglecting those vulnerable and insecure people who browse this forum but are not members, read what you wrote and interpret it as "join ISIS, Assad, FSA, etc"

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

You are once again ignorantly neglecting those vulnerable and insecure people who browse this forum but are not members, read what you wrote and interpret it as "join ISIS, Assad, FSA, etc" - next time, BE RESPONSIBLE and not some loose fooling wannabe know-it-all type who attempt character assassination on long term members who have maintained ties with the old guard and contributed to this forum over the course of many more years than you've been a Muslim.

Let that sink in through those cranial walls - then post :)

Scimi

EDIT:

One last thing lad,

this thread IS NOT ABOUT YOU AND ME - get off your butt hurt and play ball man. Sheesh, this weak crap coming from you is embarrassing to reply to now.

You may have a point that people will read what they want to read and disregard the context. Thank you for pointing that out.

In the future my advice to you is question somebody first for example with (are you seriously saying we should join them in battle?) Which off course I or anybody else who is not meaning to say that will correct themselves and clarify it. So as much as I take responsibility please do help me or any other person in fact in clear up their statements.
In the end what matters is that we change what is in ourselves to expect change in general and thus help each other in it.

Going to clarify my other comments. Again thank you for correcting me.

[Scimitar]

You may have a point that people will read what they want to read and disregard the context. Thank you for pointing that out.

Its's refreshing to read you are open to this little known problem. Often so many just ignore how what they write here will influence those vulnerable and insecure types. May Allah grant the insecure and vulnerable, security and confidence, ameen.

In the future my advice to you is question somebody first for example with (are you seriously saying we should join them in battle?) Which off course I or anybody else who is not meaning to say that will correct themselves and clarify it. So as much as I take responsibility please do help me or any other person in fact in clear up their statements.

I used to - but it just made things worse because members posted more flippantly in the hope that someone will ask them to clarify - which just stretches the thread out so long that it becomes less on topic and more difficult to follow.

My advice is - write what you mean. That's what people who are confident of their opinion do. They don't flip flop like you did with the ISIS, Assad, FSA comment.

In the end what matters is that we change what is in ourselves to expect change in general and thus help each other in it.

Going to clarify my other comments. Again thank you for correcting me.

If we all seek to change within ourselves that which is not conducive to our experience of being Muslim, then great changes will come for the Ummah.

But until then, each soul must keep on striving to be worthy of "great changes".

Now, can we bring this topic back on track?

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

But anyways the best solution that I only can think of with whole Syrian mess is DURING PEACE TALKS to break up the country for each and every group to have their part or make it a federation. With that so join the parties DURING PEACE TALKS with this solution. I am against any bullet being fired now or in the future in Syria as keep waging war will not bring any solution to stopping the bloodshed.

[aaj]

Unfortunatelly Anwar al-Awlaki is not a reliable person to take information from. There have been cases where he has used highly dubious reasoning to justify unjusifyable acts such as bombing specifically civilian targets, thereby killing innocent men women and children. I'm not sure why people really take wisdom from him when he propagates such devient views.

You may not agree with his statements regarding political events, which occurred later in his life but he was an authentic and reliable imam and shared very valuable knowledge on the deen at that time.

Greetings and peace be with you aaj;

I see many similarities in what you have been saying, and what Hermon Goering said, when he was a part of the ruling class that led Germany into war.........

Hermon Goering
“Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

George Bush and Tony Blair both used the Herman Goering Nazi formula to guide their nations to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. A very easy and dangerous ideal that provokes ordinary people to pick up a gun.

You are grossly mistaken there. The US citizens were not being slaughtered by the thousands, but their government gives them the impression that they will be soon. Compare that to the reality of Syria and other places where Muslims ARE being slaughtered and even being cannibalized by Christians.

And half a million syrians have already been wiped out and others are either being persecuted or suffering in refugee camps, especially western european camps dying of winter cold because western governments do not want to provide any proper food or shelter to them and so called humanitarian christian groups are pressuring them to convert if they want food and help.

What's ridiculous is people here talking about gandhi and passing out roses and candles. This is not the civil rights movement, there is a war and oppression and blood shed going on. Those people need defenders to defender their honor from rape, their blood from being shed and their homes from being destroyed, not babysitters handing out diapers. Jihad or the right to self defend here is obligatory despite what you or others here think.

But anyways the best solution that I only can think of with whole Syrian mess is DURING PEACE TALKS to break up the country for each and every group to have their part or make it a federation. With that so join the parties DURING PEACE TALKS with this solution. I am against any bullet being fired now or in the future in Syria as keep waging war will not bring any solution to stopping the bloodshed.

Your solution is that of the west, in dividing up the ummah into little chunks and pieces. It is unacceptable and will never happen. The Ummah will be united when Allah wills. The more Muslims return to Allah, the less they will put their hope on the west for peace.

[M.I.A.]

But anyways the best solution that I only can think of with whole Syrian mess is DURING PEACE TALKS to break up the country for each and every group to have their part or make it a federation. With that so join the parties DURING PEACE TALKS with this solution. I am against any bullet being fired now or in the future in Syria as keep waging war will not bring any solution to stopping the bloodshed.

..and give them an oil well each, right?

He is a lot more reliable then the likes of nouman and yassir qadi and sufi hamza yusuf and his side kick zaid sakir that the majority so ignorantly and blindly listen to and follow. You may not agree with his statements regarding political events, which occurred later in his life but he was an authentic and reliable imam and shared very valuable knowledge on the deen at that time.


You are grossly mistaken there. The US citizens were not being slaughtered by the thousands, but their government gives them the impression that they will be soon. Compare that to the reality of Syria and other places where Muslims ARE being slaughtered and even being cannibalized by Christians.

And half a million syrians have already been wiped out and others are either being persecuted or suffering in refugee camps, especially western european camps dying of winter cold because western governments do not want to provide any proper food or shelter to them and so called humanitarian christian groups are pressuring them to convert if they want food and help.

What's ridiculous is people here talking about gandhi and passing out roses and candles. This is not the civil rights movement, there is a war and oppression and blood shed going on. Those people need defenders to defender their honor from rape, their blood from being shed and their homes from being destroyed, not babysitters handing out diapers. Jihad or the right to self defend here is obligatory despite what you or others here think.



Your solution is that of the west, in dividing up the ummah into little chunks and pieces. It is unacceptable and will never happen. The Ummah will be united when Allah wills. The more Muslims return to Allah, the less they will put their hope on the west for peace.

so your saying the Christians are on a convert or die spree?

...i hope the irony is not lost on any of you.

there is no escape..

have any of you been watching the newly released.. iron fist series?

and back to sleep we go.

[Simple_Person]

Your solution is that of the west, in dividing up the ummah into little chunks and pieces. It is unacceptable and will never happen. The Ummah will be united when Allah wills. The more Muslims return to Allah, the less they will put their hope on the west for peace.

My solution is of the west?..The biggest achievement the west has accomplished is put nationalism in the hearts of the Muslims. This solution i am talking about is a way to also tackle multiple other problems with it(nationalism might be included), but i guess you are too focused on the west being the enemy while nobody is saying anything about Turkey as only Muslim majority country being in NATO =_=!. Everybody here is so focused on Syria and bloodshed while on the other side they are cheering and defending the likes of Erdogan, Saudi's, Sisi etc.

To build something, you must destroy the current CORRUPT foundation OR correct the current CORRUPT foundation and build/repair the foundation based on Islamic principles. The current CORRUPT foundation of the countries of the Middle East is based on nationalism. A ARAB living in Syria is shouting i am a Syrian, a ARAB in Iraq is shouting i am a Iraqi, a ARAB in Egypt is shouting i am a Egyptian. CORRECTION: You are a ARAB!!. Burn every flag there is that people in Muslim majority countries think that it represents them.

I believe there are 3 primary identity types a human being can have.

- Gender: Male/Female (Qur'an 49:13)
- Tribe/Ethnicity: (for example, Arab, (Turks doesn't even exist only ORIGINAL Ottoman the rest are mostly immigrants), Kurd, Persian etc.) (Qur'an 49:13)
- religion (Muslim, Christian, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic etc.)

All these fake countries are meant to keep the Muslims divided, but Muslims are too blind to see it. Mustafa Kemal (Crypto-Jew) made a excellent move by starting with Turkey. I off course as a Muslim don't like it and am against it, but i have to admit he did his job very good that even till this day about 90 years later Muslims still live according to his ideology of nationalism and are blind for what is going on. While the Zionists are laughing their **** off what they have achieved with the Muslims.

[Simple_Person]

..and give them an oil well each, right?

I am not qualified to answer that as that is not of my business. If they agree with each other to divide the oil wells..it is their business. If they say no everybody just have the land that majority according to a ethnicity or tribe lives..again it is their business.

So what i am saying is, Syria is the business of people living there and i have also have read that Russia even agrees to this principles. However Gulf-states, Turkey and NATO to MY knowledge want to decide how things go.

[M.I.A.]

..sorry i was making a snide reference to the 11 tribes of israel.

Al Baqarah 2:60-61

12 tribes, sorry.


allah swt have mercy upon us.


although i recon we just get hustled the crp out of.

right?

[Simple_Person]

..sorry i was making a snide reference to the 11 tribes of israel.

Al Baqarah 2:60-61

12 tribes, sorry.


allah swt have mercy upon us.

You know what i am trying to say =_=!. The nationalism of today is rather a human invention.

[Scimitar]

You are grossly mistaken there. The US citizens were not being slaughtered by the thousands, but their government gives them the impression that they will be soon. Compare that to the reality of Syria and other places where Muslims ARE being slaughtered and even being cannibalized by Christians.

And half a million syrians have already been wiped out and others are either being persecuted or suffering in refugee camps, especially western european camps dying of winter cold because western governments do not want to provide any proper food or shelter to them and so called humanitarian christian groups are pressuring them to convert if they want food and help.

What's ridiculous is people here talking about gandhi and passing out roses and candles. This is not the civil rights movement, there is a war and oppression and blood shed going on. Those people need defenders to defender their honor from rape, their blood from being shed and their homes from being destroyed, not babysitters handing out diapers. Jihad or the right to self defend here is obligatory despite what you or others here think.



Your solution is that of the west, in dividing up the ummah into little chunks and pieces. It is unacceptable and will never happen. The Ummah will be united when Allah wills. The more Muslims return to Allah, the less they will put their hope on the west for peace.

Bro, you totally misconstrued Eric's post.

Scimi

[M.I.A.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39302798

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you aaj;.

And half a million syrians have already been wiped out and others are either being persecuted or suffering in refugee camps,

I find this sad and wrong, no one should have to suffer in this way. I think the majority of Syrians want the fighting to stop, so they can live in peace, rebuild their lives, rebuild their homes, go back to work, education for their kids etc. Hopefully, we can both see some sense in this as an outcome.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God,

Eric

[Magomed]

You may not agree with his statements regarding political events, which occurred later in his life but he was an authentic and reliable imam and shared very valuable knowledge on the deen at that time

I wouldnt consider him to be either authentic or reliable. Much of what he said was highly devient. He called for the murder of innocent people who never caused any harm to Muslims. His errant and unfounded views are taken by certain parties to justified atrocities in civilian areas, including against women and children. Where did he derive his knowledge of the deen from? Which Islamic institutes to he study at? He was a good lecturer and public speaker but did not have a particularly scholarly background.

[anatolian]

Syria is just one country predominantly Muslim but the importance of Syria is it is in the middle of the conflict and I suspect WW3 is going to start from there..I too support FSA but nowadays you cant be fully sure who are financed by whom so we will just see...

[anatolian]

Turks doesn't even exist...

I didnt know we dont exist..Thank you for clarifying this..But if I dont exist who is this speaking to you?

[Simple_Person]

I didnt know we dont exist..Thank you for clarifying this..But if I dont exist who is this speaking to you?

The current people who by majority say the are Turks. Just like same case with Americans. The only people within Turkey that can say I am a ottoman are the original ones that clearly can be identified by facial feature as they look still a bit Asian. The rest are either Kurds or descendants of neighboring people.but their grandparents during the Ottoman period or especially during the creation of modern Turkey got citizenship as candy from Mustafa Kemal. In other words search your ancestoral tree who you truly are. So to take for example Erdogan. He himself I believe Georgian kind of area also looking from his facial features doesn't have anything in common with how the original ottomans looked. Just like "Americans" by majority are immigrants. That is what I tried to say. However everybody who came to Turkey..white..black..red..you name it was branded a Turk o_O!!??..which you agree with me that doesn't make somebody of the original ottomans if they were branded by somebody else.

[anatolian]

The current people who by majority say the are Turks. Just like same case with Americans. The only people within Turkey that can say I am a ottoman are the original ones that clearly can be identified by facial feature as they look still a bit Asian. The rest are either Kurds or descendants of neighboring people.but their grandparents during the Ottoman period or especially during the creation of modern Turkey got citizenship as candy from Mustafa Kemal. In other words search your ancestoral tree who you truly are. So to take for example Erdogan. He himself I believe Georgian kind of area also looking from his facial features doesn't have anything in common with how the original ottomans looked. Just like "Americans" by majority are immigrants. That is what I tried to say. However everybody who came to Turkey..white..black..red..you name it was branded a Turk o_O!!??..which you agree with me that doesn't make somebody of the original ottomans if they were branded by somebody else.

Yes but this is not uniqe to Turkish people. All nations on the surface of earth evolve as they migrate and mix with the local people. There were no Kurds say 2000 years ago either. However, this does not make them nonexistent. Still there is an American nation. No American would feel himself British ,Irish ,German or African etc. I guess. So, there is indeed a Turkish people.

[Simple_Person]

Yes but this is not uniqe to Turkish people. All nations on the surface of earth evolve as they migrate and mix with the local people. There were no Kurds say 2000 years ago either. However, this does not make them nonexistent. Still there is an American nation. No American would feel himself British ,Irish ,German or African etc. I guess. So, there is indeed a Turkish people.

I agree with you in the case of Kurds, with time it automatically mixes and becomes certain type of people. This is called you could say destiny or the plan of Allah or whatever. As this is WITHOUT human interference that by intention was to make it such as.

In case of the Turks, Americans and such, by design is done with a certain intention. Not by destiny or plan of Allah, it was rather done with a intention behind it. With the Berbers for example in North Africa this has been achieved. They mostly have forgotten their identity. They now call themselves Moroccans or Algerians..etc. With the Kurds this has been tried in 4 different man-made countries, YET in all 4 different countries the Kurds still say "Ez Kurdim" (I am a Kurd). I myself am not saying i am special, but it more looks like as if Allah is intending to do something with the Kurds. As since WW1 it has been tried over and over by 4 types of brainwashing to make them all forget that they are Kurds, yet in all different countries they have not been able to succeed. What this plan is of Allah or even if there is a plan for the Kurds by Allah, only He knows. But i find it indeed very strange that none has been able to assimilate them completely in their kind of people.

So going back to the Turks, no they are not a people. It is some people (secret agenda) trying to brand somebody as such, but just because i say that i am the strongest in the world, doesn't make me the strongest in the world. As to say such a thing, must be backed by factual evidence, just as Turks. They say they are Turks, but just saying you are a Turk, doesn't make you one. Some don't have to say, they are indeed Turks and if factual evidence is brought they still can be branded as such, the rest is all brainwashed thinking as if they are Turks. Even MORE funny is the people born in other countries than Turkey. Many Turks say i am a Turk. I ask them why? They say because my parents are Turks in the sense that their parents have been born in Turkey and not this western country. I then say well it is contradictory to say you are a Turk, as you have not been born there .. o_O!!?? A lot of silence. You see the dishonesty and the nationalism, but still the BRAINWASHING that goes on with the Turks is unbelievable. Mustafa Kemal (crypto-Jew) really made a very good plan i must say to brainwash people in to believing something even almost 80 years after his death. So although he has been the enemy of Islam to divide the Muslim, i must say a lot of respect how they have achieved this brainwashing.

Also, i believe you still have to give me OBJECTIVE evidence that Gulen was behind the coup. It seems like you have run off without letting me know. As the "evidence" you gave was very poor and not really objective. So i am still waiting, don't forget i have forgotten about it. When i bite on something, i don't easily let it go till i have been proven wrong.

[anatolian]

I agree with you in the case of Kurds, with time it automatically mixes and becomes certain type of people. This is called you could say destiny or the plan of Allah or whatever. As this is WITHOUT human interference that by intention was to make it such as.

Everything is human interference but yet everything the plan of Allah. This is what I believe.

In case of the Turks, Americans and such, by design is done with a certain intention. Not by destiny or plan of Allah, it was rather done with a intention behind it. With the Berbers for example in North Africa this has been achieved. They mostly have forgotten their identity. They now call themselves Moroccans or Algerians..etc. With the Kurds this has been tried in 4 different man-made countries, YET in all 4 different countries the Kurds still say "Ez Kurdim" (I am a Kurd). I myself am not saying i am special, but it more looks like as if Allah is intending to do something with the Kurds. As since WW1 it has been tried over and over by 4 types of brainwashing to make them all forget that they are Kurds, yet in all different countries they have not been able to succeed. What this plan is of Allah or even if there is a plan for the Kurds by Allah, only He knows. But i find it indeed very strange that none has been able to assimilate them completely in their kind of people.

You see people can adopt a certain type of identity. For example only the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula were called Arab before Islam. Syrians, Iraqis Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians and the rest of the north Africa adopted the Arabic identity after the spread of Islam. You are a Kurd as long as you feel yourself one. If you feel yourself Chinese, you are one. You don't have to have the same racial code.

However, I agree with you that Kurds have been tried to assimilate in the countries they live because of the past nationalist goverments. I am not comfortable with this as well. This is against human rights and ofcourse Islam. The reason of this is secular nationalism. If they really had Islamic awareness they would have known that all nations and languages are the signs of Allah and deserve to survive. Also you can still have the unity within nation while allowing the diversity. West is doing it better. There are ethnic minorities in several western countries but yet they keep their both minor and major idendities at the same time. If their governments had the same attitude, Kurds would love to have their Turkish or Arabic or Persian idendities as well along with the Kurdish idendity.

So going back to the Turks, no they are not a people. It is some people (secret agenda) trying to brand somebody as such, but just because i say that i am the strongest in the world, doesn't make me the strongest in the world. As to say such a thing, must be backed by factual evidence, just as Turks. They say they are Turks, but just saying you are a Turk, doesn't make you one. Some don't have to say, they are indeed Turks and if factual evidence is brought they still can be branded as such, the rest is all brainwashed thinking as if they are Turks. Even MORE funny is the people born in other countries than Turkey. Many Turks say i am a Turk. I ask them why? They say because my parents are Turks in the sense that their parents have been born in Turkey and not this western country. I then say well it is contradictory to say you are a Turk, as you have not been born there .. o_O!!?? A lot of silence. You see the dishonesty and the nationalism, but still the BRAINWASHING that goes on with the Turks is unbelievable. Mustafa Kemal (crypto-Jew) really made a very good plan i must say to brainwash people in to believing something even almost 80 years after his death. So although he has been the enemy of Islam to divide the Muslim, i must say a lot of respect how they have achieved this brainwashing.

It is a long a story. I would love to give you a lecture about it but the short of long yes Turkish people of Turkey are %100 Turkish in the sense I tried to explain in my above paragraphs. And you better don't relate everything you dislike with Turkish people to Mustafa Kemal. Turkish people of Turkey have long been adopted the Turkish identity before Him. Study a bit more the Turkish history and we can disscuss it better :)

Also, i believe you still have to give me OBJECTIVE evidence that Gulen was behind the coup. It seems like you have run off without letting me know. As the "evidence" you gave was very poor and not really objective. So i am still waiting, don't forget i have forgotten about it. When i bite on something, i don't easily let it go till i have been proven wrong.

I don't remember that I have anyhow given you anything regarding the coup attempt. But I assume you are refering a past post of mine I made somewhere. Yes it is true that all the ranking soldiers involved in the coup attempt were gulenist. This organization had long been entered into the state by either legal or illegal ways. Not only in the army but everywhere. It is a history of at least 30 years. Ofcourse they don't have an official certificate which shows that they are gulenist. But the evidences are many. Just search through.

[Simple_Person]

Everything is human interference but yet everything the plan of Allah. This is what I believe.

Everything is indeed the plan of Allah, however in the past there were no plans in such as we know to divide Muslims. So again referring to the Kurds as an example. With different people they have succeeded to assimilate them, however by Allah's will they have not been able to assimilate the Kurdish identity. So one could say, MAYBE Allah is having His plan with the Kurds. But again, Allah knows best about this, however although i am a Kurd, i find this very noticeable compared to many other people, yet the Kurds as a people have been able to withstand the oppression all this time.

You see people can adopt a certain type of identity. For example only the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula were called Arab before Islam. Syrians, Iraqis Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians and the rest of the north Africa adopted the Arabic identity after the spread of Islam. You are a Kurd as long as you feel yourself one. If you feel yourself Chinese, you are one. You don't have to have the same racial code.

This is contradictory to this aya.

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from (1) male and female and made you (2) peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:13

(1) Allah in this aya already defines some of the things that cannot be changed as He has made us in to that. For example in to male and female. So even talking about your self in the sense of asexual reproduction, doesn't make you one. So in other words a individual cannot fertilize him/herself without other gender.

(2) To go further Allah talks about peoples and tribes. In other sense one could say that this has been defined by Allah, not by us individually. By time the other many generations after us indeed one could say will become this "peoples and tribes", however not by human interference. So in this case, people are born in other countries with Turkish parents and they say they are Turks and such. However one would ask them self based on what does this individual claim he is a Turk? Which you look at the proof given and you see NATIONALISM. Nationalism is a human creation, not something of what Allah has said it should be this or that.

You get me?

However, I agree with you that Kurds have been tried to assimilate in the countries they live because of the past nationalist goverments. I am not comfortable with this as well. This is against human rights and ofcourse Islam. (1) The reason of this is secular nationalism. If they really had Islamic awareness they would have known that (2) all nations and languages are the signs of Allah and deserve to survive. Also you can still have the unity within nation while allowing the diversity. (3) West is doing it better. There are ethnic minorities in several western countries but yet they keep their both minor and major idendities at the same time. (4) If their governments had the same attitude, Kurds would love to have their Turkish or Arabic or Persian idendities as well along with the Kurdish idendity.

(1) Also with this you are being contradictory, as it looks like you support Erdogan. Erdogan by your standards is the one that pursuits slowly but surely "Islamic standards" as you defend him. However by objective standards he is following secular standards, as the Kurds are still not what they by Islamic standards should have become. So the question is, do you follow secular standards or do you follow Islamic standards? You say with one thing you say "Go Erdogan" on another thing you say "No Erdogan"(as he is pursuing secular and nationalistic ideology.

(2) these current nations, i do not even have to tell you that they have been created for the SOUL purpose to divide the Muslims. So please do not put them in the category of "Pro-Islamic way". These "nations" create people that do not exist (Arab in sham saying he is Lebanese, Syrian or Jordanian or Palestinian..you know what i am trying to say.

(3) West is NOT doing it better. Their foundation is based on nationalism and nobody is objecting to it even their own ideology does not object to it. However in the Middle East Islam prohibits nationalism, yet everybody is cheering for nationalism. If you are pro REAL Islamic Caliphate, that is something else. However i DOUBT that you say i HOPE that Allah destroys all the countries in the Middle East and sets up a REAL Islamic Caliphate. Till now Turks are unable to speak that out in the public. Nationalism is deep in the heart that prevents them saying this. I however as a Kurd with pride i say that not one of those borders remains and ALL the flags should be burned and a REAL Islamic Caliphate should be constructed. That way many Muslims living in the west will finally go away from here as many will want to go back where they came from.

(4) Again, no dude. As Muslim it is even prohibited to love that "second"(third) identity. The ONLY second identity as a Kurd i have or well one could say first identity. 1-Muslim 2-Kurd. No more identities. As these identities have been given to me by Allah(swt). I was already a Muslim before being born, so that ALWAYS comes on number 1. When i die, the identity of me being a Kurd CEASES to exist. On the Day of Judgement only thing that counts is do you believe in 1 Creator or not? You really think you are able to use "Turkish"-card on the Day of Judgement? As if you get a free ticket to Jannah? =_=!. So i LOVE it to be a Kurd i really do. As i know how it is to be oppressed and better be of the oppressed than to be of the oppressors. As in this case MANY Arabs, Turks and Persians have been blinded by Allah because of their nationalism. They seriously cannot see and understand things. Doesn't matter if you talk to them day in and day out, they simply cannot see beyond nationalism. As pride prevents them to acknowledge what has been going on and what they have been believing since childhood was all wrong.

It is a long a story. I would love to give you a lecture about it but the short of long yes Turkish people of Turkey are %100 Turkish in the sense I tried to explain in my above paragraphs. And you better don't relate everything you dislike with Turkish people to Mustafa Kemal. Turkish people of Turkey have long been adopted the Turkish identity before Him. Study a bit more the Turkish history and we can disscuss it better :)

Turkish people that really are the descendants of the REAL Turkic people. NOT the fake immigrants from neighboring lands that came to Turkey and got a passport (as i also tried to explain in my above paragraphs). Btw, this is a big test for you dude. This discussion is not about winning, this discussion is about truth. It is not easy to throw away ones pride and admit being wrong. But give me all you've got, i have done my home work about these things, not to win, but to know what is haq. That is why i have cleaned nationalism out of my heart as it will not give me a free ticket to Jannah so to say. I want all the countries to fall in the Middle East and all the flags burned even the Kurdish flag, as that will not give me free ticket to Jannah. Would you say the same ...???

I don't remember that I have anyhow given you anything regarding the coup attempt. But I assume you are refering a past post of mine I made somewhere. Yes it is true that all the ranking soldiers involved in the coup attempt were gulenist. This organization had long been entered into the state by either legal or illegal ways. Not only in the army but everywhere. It is a history of at least 30 years. Ofcourse they don't have an official certificate which shows that they are gulenist. Just search through.

Saying "many evidences" doesn't make it a fact you know. I have tried and tried to search, but i have found none. So all what i was left with is using logic, rationality and reason. Which contradict what has been happening there. It rather looked like a fake coup to me. Don't get me wrong, Gulen is the same as Erdogan. Both preach Islam, but follow nationalism.

[Abz2000]

Re: the unduly disrespectful and uneducated reply to brother @aaj 's post about our beloved and sincere teacher (radhiAllahu 'anhu) who spent his life in Allah's cause, who refused to sell out for bribes from Washington and suffered much for the sake of Allah, and to whom many owe prayers due to the fact that they stopped living a life of heedlessness and came back to the deen again and again.
Amma ba'd:

Obama Killed a 16-Year-Old American in Yemen. Trump Just Killed His 8-Year-Old Sister.

Two weeks after the killing of Awlaki, a separate CIA drone strike in Yemen killed his 16-year-old American-born son, Abdulrahman, along with the boy’s 17-year-old cousin and several other innocent Yemenis. The U.S. eventually claimed that the boy was not their target but merely “collateral damage.” Abdulrahman’s grief-stricken grandfather, Nasser al-Awlaki, urged the Washington Post “to visit a Facebook memorial page for Abdulrahman,” which explained: “Look at his pictures, his friends, and his hobbies. His Facebook page shows a typical kid.”


https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/...ar-old-sister/

On 29 January 2017, Nawar al-Awlaki, Nasser's 8-year-old granddaughter, was the third member of his family to be killed by the U.S. The girl was among several civilians killed in the Yakla raid, the first covert operation ordered by President Donald Trump.[6][7] Nasser said she was shot in the neck and died two hours later.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_al-Awlaki

Nora al awlaki:

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXokZtoiN-c

I wouldnt consider him to be either authentic or reliable. Much of what he said was highly devient. He called for the murder of innocent people who never caused any harm to Muslims. His errant and unfounded views are taken by certain parties to justified atrocities in civilian areas, including against women and children. Where did he derive his knowledge of the deen from? Which Islamic institutes to he study at? He was a good lecturer and public speaker but did not have a particularly scholarly background.

I have received the following question from one of the readers of my blog:

(The Question says) I am not sure how much you have noticed, but in the West, their is a campaign to undermine
your personal credentials as an ‘Alim. The all-too-common tactic of attacking the ‘messenger’ rather than the
message itself is being employed in these campaigns.
We want to be able to refute any false claims against you and support all of your works, wholeheartedly. Can you please provide us information regarding the Shuyukh that you have learned under in the past, and who you may be currently learning under? As well as, the source of your ‘ijaza, etc. This will be very important in refuting any slanderous attacks against your credibility. (end of Question)



I have received this question in various forms and the frequency of it increased lately. Here is my response: Alhamdulillah I have had the chance to experience the various methods of gaining Islamic knowledge through studying directly under shuyukh in their general circles or privately. I have experienced the regular academic method of university study, studying by correspondence, and studying directly from books.


Studying under shuyukh in their general circles:

I have attended the circles of the scholars of Makkah and Madina for a combined period of a few months and for a short while attended the circle of Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen.

Studying under shuyukh privately:

In addition to an ijaza in Quran recitation according to the recitation of Hafs I have read and completed Sahih al Bukhari with Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal and he has given me ijazah to narrate Sahih al Bukhari from him through three high isnaads, one of them being the highest existing isnaad in the world. The other two he has received from his shuyukh in Makkah.

I have also read and completed Sahih Muslim and al Muwata by Imam Malik with Shaykh AbdulRahman and he has given me ijazah on both books.

I have studied al Minhaaj by Imaam Nawawi on Shafi fiqh with Shaykh AbdulRahman al Ahdal and Shaykh Hamud al Ahdal and received ijaza from both of them.

The above mentioned shuyukh have also given me ijazah to narrate through their isnaad the six books of Hadith, al Adhkaar by Imaam Nawawi, al Shifa by Qadhi Iyaad, and some other books in Shafi fiqh.

I have studied, traveled and lived with Shaykh Hassan al Ahdal and it was through him that I got to study with other scholars from this blessed family of scholars who are descendants of al Hussain bin Ali may Allah be pleased with them. They are based in al Marawa’ah in Tihama which is in the Western part of Yemen on the coast of the Red Sea and this is the land of the Sahabi Abu Musa al Ash’ari. He has given me a general ijaza in the six books of hadith, Buloogh al Maraam by Ibn Hajjar al Asqalani, Umdat al Ahkaam by al Maqdisi, al Minhaaj by al Nawawi, al Ghaya wal Taqreeb by Abu Shuja, and al Waraqaat by al Juwaini.

I have spent a short time with Shaykh Salman al Odah.

I have benefited considerably from the scholars I met in the US during the 90’s, a time in which there was a great influx of scholars in America.

And last but not least, I have benefited and continue to benefit from the Shaykh whom I trust his deen and know him to be a scholar who does not fear in the sake of Allah and is willing to stand up for the truth, Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh. He is a friend whose relationship with me extends over the years. Until this day, I consult with him on the various important aspects of Sharia that I am presented with and I have continued to benefit from his knowledge and wisdom over the years. I have accompanied him and traveled with him and consider him to be one of the best scholars that I have come to know.

Regular academic university study:

Regular academic university study:

In 2002 I was given permission from the administration of the University of Eman in Yemen to attend any class at any level and I took advantage of this and attended classes in Tafsir and Fiqh for a period of a few months. I have also benefited from the teachings of Shaykh Abdul Majid al Zindani the Rector of the University.

Studying Sharia by Correspondence:

I studied for two years through correspondence with the Islamic university in France. I lost interest and discontinued my studies with them because I reached the conclusion that it was not a proper method of disseminating Islamic knowledge. This was in the mid 90’s so things must have changed now in the field of correspondence study due to advances in technology.

Studying from Books:

After receiving the basics from the scholars and the keys of knowledge, learning from books is a lifelong practice of the seeker of knowledge.

My Ijazah:

In addition to the ijaza’s I have mentioned above I have a general ijaza in Quran, Sciences of Quran, Hadith, Sciences of Hadith, Tafsir , Fiqh, Usool Fiqh and Arabic from:

Shaykh Hassan Maqbooli al Ahdal

Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh

Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal

Shaykh Hamud Shumailah al Ahdal

[Magomed]

I have received the following question from one of the readers of my blog:

(The Question says) I am not sure how much you have noticed, but in the West, their is a campaign to undermine
your personal credentials as an ‘Alim. The all-too-common tactic of attacking the ‘messenger’ rather than the
message itself is being employed in these campaigns.
We want to be able to refute any false claims against you and support all of your works, wholeheartedly. Can you please provide us information regarding the Shuyukh that you have learned under in the past, and who you may be currently learning under? As well as, the source of your ‘ijaza, etc. This will be very important in refuting any slanderous attacks against your credibility. (end of Question)



I have received this question in various forms and the frequency of it increased lately. Here is my response: Alhamdulillah I have had the chance to experience the various methods of gaining Islamic knowledge through studying directly under shuyukh in their general circles or privately. I have experienced the regular academic method of university study, studying by correspondence, and studying directly from books.


Studying under shuyukh in their general circles:

I have attended the circles of the scholars of Makkah and Madina for a combined period of a few months and for a short while attended the circle of Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen.

Studying under shuyukh privately:

In addition to an ijaza in Quran recitation according to the recitation of Hafs I have read and completed Sahih al Bukhari with Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal and he has given me ijazah to narrate Sahih al Bukhari from him through three high isnaads, one of them being the highest existing isnaad in the world. The other two he has received from his shuyukh in Makkah.

I have also read and completed Sahih Muslim and al Muwata by Imam Malik with Shaykh AbdulRahman and he has given me ijazah on both books.

I have studied al Minhaaj by Imaam Nawawi on Shafi fiqh with Shaykh AbdulRahman al Ahdal and Shaykh Hamud al Ahdal and received ijaza from both of them.

The above mentioned shuyukh have also given me ijazah to narrate through their isnaad the six books of Hadith, al Adhkaar by Imaam Nawawi, al Shifa by Qadhi Iyaad, and some other books in Shafi fiqh.

I have studied, traveled and lived with Shaykh Hassan al Ahdal and it was through him that I got to study with other scholars from this blessed family of scholars who are descendants of al Hussain bin Ali may Allah be pleased with them. They are based in al Marawa’ah in Tihama which is in the Western part of Yemen on the coast of the Red Sea and this is the land of the Sahabi Abu Musa al Ash’ari. He has given me a general ijaza in the six books of hadith, Buloogh al Maraam by Ibn Hajjar al Asqalani, Umdat al Ahkaam by al Maqdisi, al Minhaaj by al Nawawi, al Ghaya wal Taqreeb by Abu Shuja, and al Waraqaat by al Juwaini.

I have spent a short time with Shaykh Salman al Odah.

I have benefited considerably from the scholars I met in the US during the 90’s, a time in which there was a great influx of scholars in America.

And last but not least, I have benefited and continue to benefit from the Shaykh whom I trust his deen and know him to be a scholar who does not fear in the sake of Allah and is willing to stand up for the truth, Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh. He is a friend whose relationship with me extends over the years. Until this day, I consult with him on the various important aspects of Sharia that I am presented with and I have continued to benefit from his knowledge and wisdom over the years. I have accompanied him and traveled with him and consider him to be one of the best scholars that I have come to know.

Regular academic university study:

Regular academic university study:

In 2002 I was given permission from the administration of the University of Eman in Yemen to attend any class at any level and I took advantage of this and attended classes in Tafsir and Fiqh for a period of a few months. I have also benefited from the teachings of Shaykh Abdul Majid al Zindani the Rector of the University.

Studying Sharia by Correspondence:

I studied for two years through correspondence with the Islamic university in France. I lost interest and discontinued my studies with them because I reached the conclusion that it was not a proper method of disseminating Islamic knowledge. This was in the mid 90’s so things must have changed now in the field of correspondence study due to advances in technology.

Studying from Books:

After receiving the basics from the scholars and the keys of knowledge, learning from books is a lifelong practice of the seeker of knowledge.

My Ijazah:

In addition to the ijaza’s I have mentioned above I have a general ijaza in Quran, Sciences of Quran, Hadith, Sciences of Hadith, Tafsir , Fiqh, Usool Fiqh and Arabic from:

Shaykh Hassan Maqbooli al Ahdal

Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh

Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal

Shaykh Hamud Shumailah al Ahdal

I have received the following question from one of the readers of my blog:

(The Question says) I am not sure how much you have noticed, but in the West, their is a campaign to undermine
your personal credentials as an ‘Alim. The all-too-common tactic of attacking the ‘messenger’ rather than the
message itself is being employed in these campaigns.
We want to be able to refute any false claims against you and support all of your works, wholeheartedly. Can you please provide us information regarding the Shuyukh that you have learned under in the past, and who you may be currently learning under? As well as, the source of your ‘ijaza, etc. This will be very important in refuting any slanderous attacks against your credibility. (end of Question)



I have received this question in various forms and the frequency of it increased lately. Here is my response: Alhamdulillah I have had the chance to experience the various methods of gaining Islamic knowledge through studying directly under shuyukh in their general circles or privately. I have experienced the regular academic method of university study, studying by correspondence, and studying directly from books.


Studying under shuyukh in their general circles:

I have attended the circles of the scholars of Makkah and Madina for a combined period of a few months and for a short while attended the circle of Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen.

Studying under shuyukh privately:

In addition to an ijaza in Quran recitation according to the recitation of Hafs I have read and completed Sahih al Bukhari with Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal and he has given me ijazah to narrate Sahih al Bukhari from him through three high isnaads, one of them being the highest existing isnaad in the world. The other two he has received from his shuyukh in Makkah.

I have also read and completed Sahih Muslim and al Muwata by Imam Malik with Shaykh AbdulRahman and he has given me ijazah on both books.

I have studied al Minhaaj by Imaam Nawawi on Shafi fiqh with Shaykh AbdulRahman al Ahdal and Shaykh Hamud al Ahdal and received ijaza from both of them.

The above mentioned shuyukh have also given me ijazah to narrate through their isnaad the six books of Hadith, al Adhkaar by Imaam Nawawi, al Shifa by Qadhi Iyaad, and some other books in Shafi fiqh.

I have studied, traveled and lived with Shaykh Hassan al Ahdal and it was through him that I got to study with other scholars from this blessed family of scholars who are descendants of al Hussain bin Ali may Allah be pleased with them. They are based in al Marawa’ah in Tihama which is in the Western part of Yemen on the coast of the Red Sea and this is the land of the Sahabi Abu Musa al Ash’ari. He has given me a general ijaza in the six books of hadith, Buloogh al Maraam by Ibn Hajjar al Asqalani, Umdat al Ahkaam by al Maqdisi, al Minhaaj by al Nawawi, al Ghaya wal Taqreeb by Abu Shuja, and al Waraqaat by al Juwaini.

I have spent a short time with Shaykh Salman al Odah.

I have benefited considerably from the scholars I met in the US during the 90’s, a time in which there was a great influx of scholars in America.

And last but not least, I have benefited and continue to benefit from the Shaykh whom I trust his deen and know him to be a scholar who does not fear in the sake of Allah and is willing to stand up for the truth, Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh. He is a friend whose relationship with me extends over the years. Until this day, I consult with him on the various important aspects of Sharia that I am presented with and I have continued to benefit from his knowledge and wisdom over the years. I have accompanied him and traveled with him and consider him to be one of the best scholars that I have come to know.

Regular academic university study:

Regular academic university study:

In 2002 I was given permission from the administration of the University of Eman in Yemen to attend any class at any level and I took advantage of this and attended classes in Tafsir and Fiqh for a period of a few months. I have also benefited from the teachings of Shaykh Abdul Majid al Zindani the Rector of the University.

Studying Sharia by Correspondence:

I studied for two years through correspondence with the Islamic university in France. I lost interest and discontinued my studies with them because I reached the conclusion that it was not a proper method of disseminating Islamic knowledge. This was in the mid 90’s so things must have changed now in the field of correspondence study due to advances in technology.

Studying from Books:

After receiving the basics from the scholars and the keys of knowledge, learning from books is a lifelong practice of the seeker of knowledge.

My Ijazah:

In addition to the ijaza’s I have mentioned above I have a general ijaza in Quran, Sciences of Quran, Hadith, Sciences of Hadith, Tafsir , Fiqh, Usool Fiqh and Arabic from:

Shaykh Hassan Maqbooli al Ahdal

Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh

Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal

Shaykh Hamud Shumailah al Ahdal

So he attended some circles, attended some classes here and there and read some books and dropped out of Sharia studies. This really doesn't say a huge amount for someone considered a major sheikh.

Anyway, this is all irrelivent if his teachings are devient. He made permissible the act of deliberatly slaughtering civilians, and AQAP's magazine referred to his teachings to advocate attacks against sports stadiums etc. His daleel was laughable, he took the principle of collatoral damage being permissible when unavoidable (in warfare this is sometimes sadly the case) and extended it to permit killing women and children in purely civilian areas "as long as men are the target" - thinking we can find loopholes in clear principles. The prophet SAW and Allah forbade these types of murderous acts - as is mentioned many times.

[Abz2000]

So he attended some circles, attended some classes here and there and read some books and dropped out of Sharia studies. This really doesn't say a huge amount for someone considered a major sheikh.

Anyway, this is all irrelivent if his teachings are devient. He made permissible the act of deliberatly slaughtering civilians, and AQAP's magazine referred to his teachings to advocate attacks against sports stadiums etc. His daleel was laughable, he took the principle of collatoral damage being permissible when unavoidable (in warfare this is sometimes sadly the case) and extended it to permit killing women and children in purely civilian areas "as long as men are the target" - thinking we can find loopholes in clear principles. The prophet SAW and Allah forbade these types of murderous acts - as is mentioned many times.

He appears to have had more knowledge than you or I combined, and more sincerity and dedication than any scholar I know.
We would do better to put things on a correct balance and weigh with just scales when choosing who to condemn amongst humakind if we choose to condemn; since the bloodshed and other crimes of some people from amongst humankind far outweigh any crimes or bloodshed by others and this makes those who have carried out the most blooshed accountable before anyone else, since condemning those who do far less only increases the false propaganda and unjustified bloodshed and it is forbidden to retaliate to a greater extent than the injury received when checking aggression.

Let us all also take some time to study Islam before thinking of embarking on a despicable scheme of slander with malintent, btw the name of the seal of the Prophets is MUHAMMAD (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and his family and the true and sincere from amongst his claimed companions and followers) NOT Mahomet or Magomed. Mahomet was used by the ignorant orientalists who were usually quite distant from and quite unfamiliar with the settings and the language of the Quran.

Maybe study the tafseer behind the verse "they ask you about the prohibited months - fighting therein" and "the prohibited month for the prohibited month", and the verse regarding Allah checking one set of people by means of another in order to check and restrain persecution and chaos.

Maybe read some ahadith regarding the catapault/mangonel, the fact that the Prophet :saws: responded with a question rather than a ruling - thereby leaving people responsible for their actions. Also note that millions have lost their lives in unjust, haraam, and immoral bombing campaigns by those who have carried out such atrocities in the past decade - for which they are accountable in the absence of sincere repentance - with many being shot at point blank range leaving no doubt that such actions are targeted, murderous and callous.

Also be assured with certainty that the dead and killed of the Muslims are in paradise whereas the dead and killed of the kuffar are in hell. May Allah unite 'Abdur-Rahman and those who were unjustly killed like him with Hasssan and Hussain in the highest positions in Paradise.
Peace to those who humbly, sincerely, and truthfully seek to follow the guidance of Allah.

[Khanali12]

The goverment is who i support.

[Abz2000]

The goverment is who i support.

deen il government, 'abd al prime minister/president or 'abd Allah?
Better to be on deen il haqq and 'abd Allah.
Sorry my english sir.

[TDWT]

He appears to have had more knowledge than you or I combined, and more sincerity and dedication than any scholar I know.
We would do better to put things on a correct balance and weigh with just scales when choosing who to condemn amongst humakind if we choose to condemn; since the bloodshed and other crimes of some people from amongst humankind far outweigh any crimes or bloodshed by others and this makes those who have carried out the most blooshed accountable before anyone else, since condemning those who do far less only increases the false propaganda and unjustified bloodshed and it is forbidden to retaliate to a greater extent than the injury received when checking aggression.

Let us all also take some time to study Islam before thinking of embarking on a despicable scheme of slander with malintent, btw the name of the seal of the Prophets is MUHAMMAD (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and his family and the true and sincere from amongst his claimed companions and followers) NOT Mahomet or Magomed. Mahomet was used by the ignorant orientalists who were usually quite distant from and quite unfamiliar with the settings and the language of the Quran.

Maybe study the tafseer behind the verse "they ask you about the prohibited months - fighting therein" and "the prohibited month for the prohibited month", and the verse regarding Allah checking one set of people by means of another in order to check and restrain persecution and chaos.

Maybe read some ahadith regarding the catapault/mangonel, the fact that the Prophet :saws: responded with a question rather than a ruling - thereby leaving people responsible for their actions. Also note that millions have lost their lives in unjust, haraam, and immoral bombing campaigns by those who have carried out such atrocities in the past decade - for which they are accountable in the absence of sincere repentance - with many being shot at point blank range leaving no doubt that such actions are targeted, murderous and callous.

Also be assured with certainty that the dead and killed of the Muslims are in paradise whereas the dead and killed of the kuffar are in hell. May Allah unite 'Abdur-Rahman and those who were unjustly killed like him with Hasssan and Hussain in the highest positions in Paradise.
Peace to those who humbly, sincerely, and truthfully seek to follow the guidance of Allah.

What about the killed non-muslims who were suffering and were not bad people?

[Khanali12]

deen il government, 'abd al prime minister/president or 'abd Allah?
Better to be on deen il haqq and 'abd Allah.
Sorry my english sir.

The president

[Abz2000]

The president

President means Khalifah, and it is essential and obligatory that the khalifah establishes the laws of justice and truth on earth, and Allah who is the creator and sustainer of the heavens and the earth is the most high, most wise, and most just, therefore the president must be ib submission and 'obedience to Allah who has sent messengers with guidance and revealed the Quran to Muhammad :saws: which is the most updated law till the rolling up and end of the heavens and the earth.


Abu Bakr’s (ra) Inaugural Speech
Author: MR Filed under: History, Islam, Politics Date: Jan 19,2009 | 05:25 PM

After the ummah gave their allegiance to Abu Bakr (ra), he said this:

O People! I have been put in authority over you and I am not the best of you. So if I do the right thing then help me and if I do wrong then put me straight.
Truthfulness is a sacred trust and lying is a betrayal.
The weak amongst you is strong in my sight. I will surely try to remove his pain and suffering.
And the strong amongst you is weak to me I will – Allah willing – realise the right from him fully.
When obscene things spread among any nation, calamities generally continued to descend upon them.
As long as I obey Allah and His messenger, you should obey me, and if I do not obey Allah and His messenger, then obedience to me is not incumbent upon you. (Now prepare for prayer).

http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2009/...ugural-speech/

[Magomed]

He appears to have had more knowledge than you or I combined, and more sincerity and dedication than any scholar I know.

Though as far as scholars go, he is a lightweight whose credentials have been vastly exagerrated by his fanboys. He is a good orater and charasmatic but he is no authority on Islam. Scholars with more knowledge than us and him combined have condemned him in droves.

We would do better to put things on a correct balance and weigh with just scales when choosing who to condemn amongst humakind if we choose to condemn; since the bloodshed and other crimes of some people from amongst humankind far outweigh any crimes or bloodshed by others and this makes those who have carried out the most blooshed accountable before anyone else, since condemning those who do far less only increases the false propaganda and unjustified bloodshed and it is forbidden to retaliate to a greater extent than the injury received when checking aggression.

Not completely sure what you are rambling on about here - but we do not support someone on the basis that they just happened to be less savage and murderous than someone else. We dissasociate from all devients and murderers.

Let us all also take some time to study Islam before thinking of embarking on a despicable scheme of slander with malintent, btw the name of the seal of the Prophets is MUHAMMAD (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and his family and the true and sincere from amongst his claimed companions and followers) NOT Mahomet or Magomed. Mahomet was used by the ignorant orientalists who were usually quite distant from and quite unfamiliar with the settings and the language of the Quran.

No slander from my part, just quoting facts and reiterating what he said. His calls to commit savage and unrestrained murder speaks volumes about him - no slander neccesary. And the issue about my name is just plainly irrelivent.

Maybe study the tafseer behind the verse "they ask you about the prohibited months - fighting therein" and "the prohibited month for the prohibited month", and the verse regarding Allah checking one set of people by means of another in order to check and restrain persecution and chaos.

Does nothing to justify his calls to murder civilians indiscriminatly - something prohibited in Islam, but he tried to make haraam into halal. What does this say about him?

Maybe read some ahadith regarding the catapault/mangonel, the fact that the Prophet :saws: responded with a question rather than a ruling - thereby leaving people responsible for their actions. Also note that millions have lost their lives in unjust, haraam, and immoral bombing campaigns by those who have carried out such atrocities in the past decade - for which they are accountable in the absence of sincere repentance - with many being shot at point blank range leaving no doubt that such actions are targeted, murderous and callous.

We do not carry out mmurderous callous acts regardless of whether others do it. In the case of mangonels, civilian deaths are caused by unintendend consequence, they are not the targets.

Also be assured with certainty that the dead and killed of the Muslims are in paradise whereas the dead and killed of the kuffar are in hell. May Allah unite 'Abdur-Rahman and those who were unjustly killed like him with Hasssan and Hussain in the highest positions in Paradise.
Peace to those who humbly, sincerely, and truthfully seek to follow the guidance of Allah.

What can we say about those who overruled Allah's prohibtion of killing women, children and those who do not fight us and claim it to be halal?

[Abz2000]

I've said what is necessary on the topic in order to defend him from false accusations and belittlement, and so will refrain from empty bickering as that's where it appears to be headed and prefer to spend my time on more useful pursuits. Just a quick epilogue:
He was also an engineer by profession and his father was a fulbright scholar, the whole family appears to have inherited high IQ and succeeded with high marks in whichever subject they touched upon which also indicates good and sound ancestry. He didn't need to spend time giving you naseehah in terms of financial needs, but then again he wouldn't likely have reached the status he did before Allah had he continued as an engineer.
Attempting to compare his retaliatory actions within the limits of equal Qisas in order to restrain wanton bloodshed of innocents - with those of corrupt criminals such as bush, blair, obama, cameron, sarkozy, hollande, may, and trump is quite lame actually since one is not shining a real mirror - but expounding the darkness of their own hearts and intentions.


Peace be to those who seek to follow the guidance of Allah with sincerity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakla_raid

[Abz2000]

Edited

[TDWT]

I've said what is necessary on the topic in order to defend him from false accusations and belittlement, and so will refrain from empty bickering as that's where it appears to be headed and prefer to spend my time on more useful pursuits. Just a quick epilogue:
He was also an engineer by profession and his father was a fulbright scholar, the whole family appears to have inherited high IQ and succeeded with high marks in whichever subject they touched upon which also indicates good and sound ancestry. He didn't need to spend time giving you naseehah in terms of financial needs, but then again he wouldn't likely have reached the status he did before Allah had he continued as an engineer.
Attempting to compare his retaliatory actions within the limits of equal Qisas in order to restrain wanton bloodshed of innocents - with those of corrupt criminals such as bush, blair, obama, cameron, sarkozy, hollande, may, and trump is quite lame actually since one is not shining a real mirror - but expounding the darkness of their own hearts and intentions.


Peace be to those who seek to follow the guidance of Allah with sincerity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakla_raid

I think what this person is trying to say is that two wrongs don't make a right. Ofc what the U.S is doing is wrong but what Anwar said about killing civilian is not right as well.

[Abz2000]

The saying: "two wrongs don't make a right" is confusing and should be rendered "two haram actions don't become a halal action", however qisas within the boundaries of Islam make retaliation up to the extent of a crime of an individual or group halal in order to check haram bloodshed and fitnah.

Wa lakum fi al qisaasi hayaatun ta uli albaab.

Retaliation is also to be practised with due care, If it is apparent that an individual or group may repent and desist from commiting crimes anyway, blood money may be taken or forgiveness granted at the discretion of the wronged or their legitimate awliyaa. If however the individual or group concerned is likely to continue to commit injustice if left unchecked - then retaliation up to the amount of unlawful damage done becomes pragmatic if the people concerned are able, and if the people who lawfully retaliated qithin the bounds of lawful qisaas are set upon again, Allah the most high will help them, and when Allah the most just who cannot be questioned for His deeds becomes directly involved the consequences for the unjust aggressors can be dire since Allah is not bound by any constraints.

Chapter Name:Al-Anfal Verse No:19

إِن تَسْتَفْتِحُواْ فَقَدْ جَاءكُمُ الْفَتْحُ وَإِن تَنتَهُواْ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَإِن تَعُودُواْ نَعُدْ وَلَن تُغْنِيَ عَنكُمْ فِئَتُكُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَوْ كَثُرَتْ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ {19
008:019 Khan
:
(O disbelievers) if you ask for a judgement, now has the judgement come unto you and if you cease (to do wrong), it will be better for you, and if you return (to the attack), so shall We return, and your forces will be of no avail to you, however numerous it be, and verily, Allah is with the believers.

[TDWT]

The saying: "two wrongs don't make a right" is confusing and should be rendered "two haram actions don't become a halal action, however qisas within the boundaries of Islam make retaliation up to the extent of a crime of an individual or group halal in order to check haram bloodshed and fitnah.

Wa lakum fi al qisaasi hayaatun ta uli albaab.

Retaliation is also to be practised with due care, If it is apparent that an individual or group may repent and desist from commiting crimes anyway, blood money may be taken or forgiveness granted at the discretion of the wronged or their legitimate awliyaa. If however the individual or group concerned is likely to continue to commit injustice if left unchecked - then retaliation up to the amount of unlawful damage done becomes pragmatic if the people concerned are able, and if the people who lawfully retaliated qithin the bounds of lawful qisaas are set upon again, Allah the most high will help them, and when Allah the most just who cannot be questioned for His deeds becomes directly involved the consequences for the unjust aggressors can be dire since Allah is not bound by any constraints.

Chapter Name:Al-Anfal Verse No:19

إِن تَسْتَفْتِحُواْ فَقَدْ جَاءكُمُ الْفَتْحُ وَإِن تَنتَهُواْ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَإِن تَعُودُواْ نَعُدْ وَلَن تُغْنِيَ عَنكُمْ فِئَتُكُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَوْ كَثُرَتْ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ {19
008:019 Khan
:
(O disbelievers) if you ask for a judgement, now has the judgement come unto you and if you cease (to do wrong), it will be better for you, and if you return (to the attack), so shall We return, and your forces will be of no avail to you, however numerous it be, and verily, Allah is with the believers.

So you're saying anwar did say it was ok to attack innocents and you're condoning that?

[anatolian]

Everything is indeed the plan of Allah, however in the past there were no plans in such as we know to divide Muslims. So again referring to the Kurds as an example. With different people they have succeeded to assimilate them, however by Allah's will they have not been able to assimilate the Kurdish identity. So one could say, MAYBE Allah is having His plan with the Kurds. But again, Allah knows best about this, however although i am a Kurd, i find this very noticeable compared to many other people, yet the Kurds as a people have been able to withstand the oppression all this time.



This is contradictory to this aya.

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from (1) male and female and made you (2) peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:13

(1) Allah in this aya already defines some of the things that cannot be changed as He has made us in to that. For example in to male and female. So even talking about your self in the sense of asexual reproduction, doesn't make you one. So in other words a individual cannot fertilize him/herself without other gender.

(2) To go further Allah talks about peoples and tribes. In other sense one could say that this has been defined by Allah, not by us individually. By time the other many generations after us indeed one could say will become this "peoples and tribes", however not by human interference. So in this case, people are born in other countries with Turkish parents and they say they are Turks and such. However one would ask them self based on what does this individual claim he is a Turk? Which you look at the proof given and you see NATIONALISM. Nationalism is a human creation, not something of what Allah has said it should be this or that.

You get me?



(1) Also with this you are being contradictory, as it looks like you support Erdogan. Erdogan by your standards is the one that pursuits slowly but surely "Islamic standards" as you defend him. However by objective standards he is following secular standards, as the Kurds are still not what they by Islamic standards should have become. So the question is, do you follow secular standards or do you follow Islamic standards? You say with one thing you say "Go Erdogan" on another thing you say "No Erdogan"(as he is pursuing secular and nationalistic ideology.

(2) these current nations, i do not even have to tell you that they have been created for the SOUL purpose to divide the Muslims. So please do not put them in the category of "Pro-Islamic way". These "nations" create people that do not exist (Arab in sham saying he is Lebanese, Syrian or Jordanian or Palestinian..you know what i am trying to say.

(3) West is NOT doing it better. Their foundation is based on nationalism and nobody is objecting to it even their own ideology does not object to it. However in the Middle East Islam prohibits nationalism, yet everybody is cheering for nationalism. If you are pro REAL Islamic Caliphate, that is something else. However i DOUBT that you say i HOPE that Allah destroys all the countries in the Middle East and sets up a REAL Islamic Caliphate. Till now Turks are unable to speak that out in the public. Nationalism is deep in the heart that prevents them saying this. I however as a Kurd with pride i say that not one of those borders remains and ALL the flags should be burned and a REAL Islamic Caliphate should be constructed. That way many Muslims living in the west will finally go away from here as many will want to go back where they came from.

(4) Again, no dude. As Muslim it is even prohibited to love that "second"(third) identity. The ONLY second identity as a Kurd i have or well one could say first identity. 1-Muslim 2-Kurd. No more identities. As these identities have been given to me by Allah(swt). I was already a Muslim before being born, so that ALWAYS comes on number 1. When i die, the identity of me being a Kurd CEASES to exist. On the Day of Judgement only thing that counts is do you believe in 1 Creator or not? You really think you are able to use "Turkish"-card on the Day of Judgement? As if you get a free ticket to Jannah? =_=!. So i LOVE it to be a Kurd i really do. As i know how it is to be oppressed and better be of the oppressed than to be of the oppressors. As in this case MANY Arabs, Turks and Persians have been blinded by Allah because of their nationalism. They seriously cannot see and understand things. Doesn't matter if you talk to them day in and day out, they simply cannot see beyond nationalism. As pride prevents them to acknowledge what has been going on and what they have been believing since childhood was all wrong.



Turkish people that really are the descendants of the REAL Turkic people. NOT the fake immigrants from neighboring lands that came to Turkey and got a passport (as i also tried to explain in my above paragraphs). Btw, this is a big test for you dude. This discussion is not about winning, this discussion is about truth. It is not easy to throw away ones pride and admit being wrong. But give me all you've got, i have done my home work about these things, not to win, but to know what is haq. That is why i have cleaned nationalism out of my heart as it will not give me a free ticket to Jannah so to say. I want all the countries to fall in the Middle East and all the flags burned even the Kurdish flag, as that will not give me free ticket to Jannah. Would you say the same ...???

Saying "many evidences" doesn't make it a fact you know. I have tried and tried to search, but i have found none. So all what i was left with is using logic, rationality and reason. Which contradict what has been happening there. It rather looked like a fake coup to me. Don't get me wrong, Gulen is the same as Erdogan. Both preach Islam, but follow nationalism.

I don't claim that being a Turk, Kurd or something else gives us a free ticket to jannah. Jews fell in this mistake and they lost. I too think that nations were created by Allah for a purpose. If there is a Kurdish nation it is because it was supposed to be. Same for other nations. I too refer to the ayah you mentioned about the different nations/tribes. I too believe just as we have two genders as men and women as a sign of the creation of Allah, our different nations are the signs of Allah too as it is mentioned in the Quran. Everyt naiton has a purpose but Islam must be our unifying source. Turks ruled the more than half of the Islamic world once uponna time and Kurds helped them. If it was Kurds who did it, Turks should have done the same thing.

We must accept and undersatnd our differences but we must serve the ıslamic purpose and help the other one who takes the leadership.

[Abz2000]

So you're saying anwar did say it was ok to attack innocents and you're condoning that?

Lol, you can check what anwar (ra) said at the beginning - after the false flag event on 9/11/2001, near the middle after the illegal pirate invasion of Iraq, near the end after being imprisoned and held without just cause (and being interviewed by the cia during his illegal detention), and near the end when he came to the conclusion that all the human rights rhetoric from secularists was a smokescreen for the attempted secularist liberalist impositions on conservative and liberal Muslim majority populations by using "christian conservatism" as the vessel of invasion so that the world remained confused and so that the two party divide in america was utilised as has always been to push secularist liberism in the name of God. And that Muslims needed to wield the power of government along with it's social, spiritual, economic and diplomatic systems along with the military capability that is required by a government in order to be real and succeed rather than a namesake brand-name poster utilized by puppet wolves in sheeps clothing. Malcolm X came to similar conclusions.

anyway, why would you need me to twist his words when you can research it easily?
He was not a greedy, selfish and bloodthirsty capitalist seeking to get rich off unjust wars and murders of millions, rather he - like his predecessor Sheikh Usama - was sympathetic, soft hearted and selfless and saw the need to do something in order to stop injustice and establish the Kingdom of God on earth so that people can prosper in this world and in eternity.

Maybe take the time to read the letters of Usama and watch his interviews rather than believe the lies of the pirate secularists if you want to be certain of this fact. Watch or listen to anwar's lectures rather than bend backwards to condemn without any knowledge.

The way I see it, he was a person who understood that it is wrong for anyone to commit unjust aggression, but the sad reality is that criminals exist, so if a person from the house opposite to one's own house throws a brick into the person's house without a halal cause, the wronged person attempts to get justice without taking the matter into their own hands, however, if no one in that house opposite to bothers to take just action, and nobody else does, or they even join in throwing mud at the wronged person and threatening and abusing the people who have been wronged, then the wronged person or people have a right to throw a similar or smaller brick straight into that unjust house opposite in order to ensure that people know that it isn't ok to commit injustice and that injustice has consequences unless there is sincere repentance.
If that sounds illogical to anyone then they need to do some IQ tests to see if they have any malfunctioning parts in the processing section of their brain.

Here's how he started off:



After becoming more vocal following the illegal pirate invasion of Iraq:



This is how he turned out after suffering injustice first hand, you can see that most of it is more reactionary than his undisturbed and unabused nature would have been:

https://vimeo.com/34050714

It progressed in a similar fashion to the non-violent call of the Prophet pbuh in Makkah, the unjust torture and murders of people such as sumayyah umm 'ammar just for claiming that there were no gods but Almighty God, the constant calls to the Muslims for self-restraint, the harassment and attempt to force them back from abyssinya after having LEFT their homes due to escape persecution, the migration to al madinah and then the following struggles in God's path.

[Simple_Person]

I don't claim that being a Turk, Kurd or something else gives us a free ticket to jannah. Jews fell in this mistake and they lost. I too think that nations were created by Allah for a purpose. If there is a Kurdish nation it is because it was supposed to be. Same for other nations. I too refer to the ayah you mentioned about the different nations/tribes. I too believe just as we have two genders as men and women as a sign of the creation of Allah, our different nations are the signs of Allah too as it is mentioned in the Quran. Everyt naiton has a purpose but Islam must be our unifying source. Turks ruled the more than half of the Islamic world once uponna time and Kurds helped them. If it was Kurds who did it, Turks should have done the same thing.

We must accept and understand our differences but we must serve the Islamic purpose and help the other one who takes the leadership.

Yes i agree with you, but you fall for the trap to brand Turkey this so called "nation" in Islamic perspective. No Turkey is a artificial nation..aka man-made. Among Kurds for example, just because a European comes among Kurds, he cannot say i am a Kurd. You get me? Even though he has a passport that clearly says he lives there etc. etc. Kurds have been created as this nation, among Turks this nation also exists, as the ORIGINAL ottomans, not the Turks of today. Australians for example also do NOT exist based on Islamic understanding. You can only say aboriginals those are a nation. But Australian is a man-made creation that does not fall under the nation of what is called about in the Qur'an. You could say there is a land (not country but LAND) that has been branded Australia by humans the original people live there (aboriginals, then you also have Europeans(although they also have their specific origin), Arabs, Japanese etc etc. living there. So saying those are all called Australians, by man-made definition is possible, but NOT through Islamic understanding. So in your own specific case, you MIGHT be one of the decedents of the original Ottomans, but also you may be a Kurd but have forgotten about it but also you may be just a immigrant from the neighboring places. Often when you look at how you look you can determine where you most probably descend from.

[Magomed]

He was also an engineer by profession and his father was a fulbright scholar, the whole family appears to have inherited high IQ and succeeded with high marks in whichever subject they touched upon which also indicates good and sound ancestry. He didn't need to spend time giving you naseehah in terms of financial needs, but then again he wouldn't likely have reached the status he did before Allah had he continued as an engineer.

And Bashar al-Assad is an Eye Doctor.
Being an engineer by profession doesn't mean he is a scholar by profession any more than it means he is a lawyer, doctor or chemist by profession.

[Magomed]

Lol, you can check what anwar (ra) said at the beginning - after the false flag event on 9/11/2001, near the middle after the illegal pirate invasion of Iraq, near the end after being imprisoned and held without just cause (and being interviewed by the cia during his illegal detention), and near the end when he came to the conclusion that all the human rights rhetoric from secularists was a smokescreen for the attempted secularist liberalist impositions on conservative and liberal Muslim majority populations by using "christian conservatism" as the vessel of invasion so that the world remained confused and so that the two party divide in america was utilised as has always been to push secularist liberism in the name of God. And that Muslims needed to wield the power of government along with it's social, spiritual, economic and diplomatic systems along with the military capability that is required by a government in order to be real and succeed rather than a namesake brand-name poster utilized by puppet wolves in sheeps clothing. Malcolm X came to similar conclusions.

anyway, why would you need me to twist his words when you can research it easily?
He was not a greedy, selfish and bloodthirsty capitalist seeking to get rich off unjust wars and murders of millions, rather he - like his predecessor Sheikh Usama - was sympathetic, soft hearted and selfless and saw the need to do something in order to stop injustice and establish the Kingdom of God on earth so that people can prosper in this world and in eternity.

Maybe take the time to read the letters of Usama and watch his interviews rather than believe the lies of the pirate secularists if you want to be certain of this fact. Watch or listen to anwar's lectures rather than bend backwards to condemn without any knowledge.

The way I see it, he was a person who understood that it is wrong for anyone to commit unjust aggression, but the sad reality is that criminals exist, so if a person from the house opposite to one's own house throws a brick into the person's house without a halal cause, the wronged person attempts to get justice without taking the matter into their own hands, however, if no one in that house opposite to bothers to take just action, and nobody else does, or they even join in throwing mud at the wronged person and threatening and abusing the people who have been wronged, then the wronged person or people have a right to throw a similar or smaller brick straight into that unjust house opposite in order to ensure that people know that it isn't ok to commit injustice and that injustice has consequences unless there is sincere repentance.
If that sounds illogical to anyone then they need to do some IQ tests to see if they have any malfunctioning parts in the processing section of their brain.

Here's how he started off:



After becoming more vocal following the illegal pirate invasion of Iraq:



This is how he turned out after suffering injustice first hand, you can see that most of it is more reactionary than his undisturbed and unabused nature would have been:

https://vimeo.com/34050714

It progressed in a similar fashion to the non-violent call of the Prophet pbuh in Makkah, the unjust torture and murders of people such as sumayyah umm 'ammar just for claiming that there were no gods but Almighty God, the constant calls to the Muslims for self-restraint, the harassment and attempt to force them back from abyssinya after having LEFT their homes due to escape persecution, the migration to al madinah and then the following struggles in God's path.

All that babble and you didn't even answer the question. You seem to have trouble actually keeping with the topic of the discussion without going off on irrelivent tangents.

And killing civilians deliberatly is not in keeping with Qisas. The Prophet SAW never did that and the Quran and hadiths prohibited it - as did the majority of Ulema. Fake scholar Awlaki cannot override that. Making haraam into halal is a major sin - even if he apparently said good things sometimes.

[Abz2000]

Edited for the sake of Allah, will re-post after getting some time inshaAllah

[Abz2000]

All that babble and you didn't even answer the question. You seem to have trouble actually keeping with the topic of the discussion without going off on irrelivent tangents.

I am under no obligation to answer rude and foolish trolling questions, especilially where the facts are easily found, and when it becones a case of deceitful bebel-ing in order to attain "ANNUIT COEPTIS" :statisfie :muddlehea :raging: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annuit_c%C5%93ptis from a false god for the sake of disobedience to God, I free myself from such arrogance towards Allah and proclaim His oneness and my servitude to Allah.
Shura in obedience and subjection to Allah (Who is most just and wise) is another question and I more acceptable.
However, I am compelled to answer due to the admonishment of Allah to not turn on the heels from kuffar (and munaafiqeen) - unless it be a valid stratagem.

Get the behind me satan, for it is written, thou shalt not tempt the Lord our God, Who is one, without equivalent, and does not give His glory to another.

And killing civilians deliberatly is not in keeping with Qisas. The Prophet SAW never did that and the Quran and hadiths prohibited it - as did the majority of Ulema.

I had a feeling that the verse touches mainly on cases of wars between groups of people as it is otherwise difficult to make sense of:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِصَاصُ فِي الْقَتْلَى الْحُرُّ بِالْحُرِّ وَالْعَبْدُ بِالْعَبْدِ وَالأُنثَى بِالأُنثَى فَمَنْ عُفِيَ لَهُ مِنْ أَخِيهِ شَيْءٌ فَاتِّبَاعٌ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَأَدَاء إِلَيْهِ بِإِحْسَانٍ ذَلِكَ تَخْفِيفٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَرَحْمَةٌ فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فَلَهُ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ {178


002:178 Khan
:

O you who believe! Al-Qisas (the Law of Equality in punishment) is prescribed for you in case of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But if the killer is forgiven by the brother (or the relatives, etc.) of the killed against blood money, then adhering to it with fairness and payment of the blood money, to the heir should be made in fairness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. So after this whoever transgresses the limits (i.e. kills the killer after taking the blood money), he shall have a painful torment.

وَلَكُمْ فِي الْقِصَاصِ حَيَاةٌ يَاْ أُولِيْ الأَلْبَابِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ {179
002:179 Khan
:
And there is (a saving of) life for you in Al-Qisas (the Law of Equality in punishment), O men of understanding, that you may become Al- Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).
[/B] .

From the first day I read it, I paused and scrutinized it and eventually left it as something I didn't fully understand, since it was difficult to comprehend how, I a freeman killed a slave, a slave from the guilty party could be killed in his stead, or if a woman was killed by a man, a woman of that man could be killed in his stead.
After coming across the verse sometimes over the course of a few years, and with the dismay I felt at the millions of civilians who have been killed by pirate secularist aggressors, and the small feeling of "shifaa as suadr" (healing of the heart) I would later come to feel when I saw retaliatory actions by victim parties even though on a much smaller scale, I developed a hunch that it was emphasizing the question of groups in cases where the aggressor group or tribe shielded the aggressors - thereby becoming sharers in culpability, and direct retaliation was therefore impossible even though unjust aggression needed to be stopped.

Thanks to Allah for your contentious argumentation that I took the time to look back into it and managed to find the context of revelation. It was apparent that the verse primarily applied to aggression in a context of groups rather than individuals.

On the authority of Ibn Abi Hatim (ra), Ibn Katheer (ra) has reported that, just before the advent of Islam, war broke out between two tribes. Many men and women, free and slaves, belonging to both, were killed.
Their case was still undecided when the Islamic period set in and the two tribes entered the fold of Islam.
Now that they were Muslims, they started talking about retaliation for those killed on each side. One of the tribes which was more powerful insisted that they would not agree to anything less than that a free man for their slave and a man for their woman be killed from the other side.

Fake scholar Awlaki cannot override that. Making haraam into halal is a major sin - even if he apparently said good things sometimes.

Allah knows and i bear witness that he is a more knowledgeable and intelligent scholar than most of the certificate wielding deceivers who hate what Allah has revealed.
The wise scholars often keep silent in such times whilst safeguarding their knowledge, for the evil lurks and harms, it is usually the munaafiq ones who are a'izzatun 'ala al mumineen wa adhillatun ala al kaafireen wa yakhaafoona lauma talaa-im who are vocal against any real believers on their tv slots and high seats in the synagogues since they get their paychecks without having to worry about a knock on the door or a crusader funded raid.

Making halaal haram is also as sinful as making haraam halaal.
Maybe check the Islamic rulings on eating pig for less binary and more realistic calculation seeking the face of Allah.

Anwar's comments on scholarship can be found here:



Word search "tawakkul" - onwards.

https://archive.org/stream/AllahIsPr...ctory_djvu.txt

Though I did note, your objection to him was based on a truthful statement of his, attempting to assassinate the messenger when faced with the inability to dent his message - thereby demonstrating the limited intellectual capacity of traitors to the deen which Allah has revealed.

[Abz2000]

Sounds very nice but what works practically? .... consider it as two messages from the same examiner .... rather than a competition between the couriers. .....possibly also look at your particular situation.......

1. .....

27“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
29If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also.
If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them.
30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. ....from luke 6........




2.......It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: A man came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said:
O Messenger of Allaah, what do you think if a man comes wanting to (unlawfully) take my property? He said: “Do not give him your property.”
He said: What if he fights me? He said: “Fight him.”
He said: What if he kills me? He said: “Then you will be a martyr.” He said: What if I kill him? He said: “He will be in Hell.” ...... Narrated by Muslim (140).

It was narrated that Sa’eed ibn Zayd (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who is (unjustly) killed (for justly) defending his wealth is a martyr, the one who is killed defending his family is a martyr, the one who is killed defending his religion is a martyr, and the one who is killed defending his life is a martyr.”

...... Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1421), al-Nasaa’i (4095), Abu Dawood (4772); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel (708). ........



Words of Wisdom

Based upon the strength of a nation
Conquer the enemy armed with education
Protect yourself, reach for what you want to do
Know thyself, teach by what we've been through
Armed with the knowledge of the place we've been
No one will ever oppress this race again.
No Malcolm X in my history text, why's that?
’Cause he tried to educate and liberate all blacks
Why is Martin Luther King in my book each week?
He told blacks, if they get smacked, turn the other cheek
.I don't get it, so many questions went through my mind
I get sweated, they act like asking questions is a crime
But forget it, cause one day I'm gonna prove them wrong
Not every brother had his mother on the welfare line.
The American Dream, though it seems like it's attainable
They're pulling your sleeve, don't believe’Cause it will strangle ya
Pulling the life of your brain, I can't explain
Beg as you can obtain from which you came
Swear that your mother is living in equality
Forgetting your brother that's living in poverty
Thought they had us beaten when they took out King
But the battle ain't over till the black man sings
Words of Wisdom
The battle ain't over 'till the black man sings
Words of Wisdom

Tupac Amaru Shakur

[Abz2000]

For the purpose of clarification here is a compilation of Sheikh Usama's statements all the way from 1994 to 2004
Also note that he was never officially accused of commiting the false flag event of 9/11/01, yet continually slandered without just cause:
See for yourselves if he was an aggressor or a defender of justice.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahh2qjh0dc...-fbis.pdf?dl=0



وَمَن يَكْسِبْ خَطِيئَةً أَوْ إِثْمًا ثُمَّ يَرْمِ بِهِ بَرِيئًا فَقَدِ احْتَمَلَ بُهْتَانًا وَإِثْمًا مُّبِينًا {112

-
004:112 Khan
:
And whoever earns a fault or a sin and then throws it on to someone innocent, he has indeed burdened himself with falsehood and a manifest sin.
004:112 Maulana
:
And whoever commits a fault or a sin, then accuses of it one innocent, he indeed takes upon himself the burden of a calumny and a manifest sin.
004:112 Pickthal
:
And whoso committeth a delinquency or crime, then throweth (the blame) thereof upon the innocent, hath burdened himself with falsehood and a flagrant crime.

.
Quran Chapter 4, Verse 112