Why are women more restricted than men?

[66moon]

I don't understand why men are allowed to dress fashionably, style their hair, are able to show their body except for their awrah and be able to sing and dance while women can't wear minimal makeup, have to wear baggy clothes, their clothes have to be unfashionable and dark, can't speak loudly or laugh in public, they can't sing, recite or dance either.

Why do women need to hide themselves so much when men don't?

[talibilm]

:sl:

The most valuables are always kept , guarded safely . Say Money are kept in a double layered purse or into the safety lockers and so are Jewelry are safe guarded and are not exposed in places of danger .

So women in Islam is the basis of a good peaceful family which makes a peaceful state . So Islam VALUES them too Much. And a Hadith said something like there's paradise and hell in this world too. if a man gets a pious righteous wife its a paradise for him & a bad wife is a hell in this world itself. :phew

[66moon]

:sl:

The most valuables are always kept , guarded safely . Say Money are kept in a double layered purse or into the safety lockers and so are Jewelry are safe guarded and are not exposed in places of danger .

So women in Islam is the basis of a good peaceful family which makes a peaceful state . So Islam VALUES them too Much. And a Hadith said something like there's paradise and hell in this world too. if a man gets a pious righteous wife its a paradise for him & a bad wife is a hell in this world itself. :phew

People keep saying that it's because women are supposed to be protected, but how is it a good thing if it becomes difficult to go about our daily lives without having to worry about so many things. I'm sure if a man looked good, girls would look at him and be attracted. Why is it different if it's a woman?

Islam isn't supposed to make things difficult.

[talibilm]

Yes Allah has made Islam Easy to practise but we took it to extremes. women are allowed to go for their needs of their families to market etc but should be in hijab but must avoid idle or vain loitering etc.

Men and women are different in many ways and Allah , the Creator, The All wise understands about us more than we could understand about ourselves

Noble Quran 67:14 '' Should not HeWho has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves) All-Aware (of everything).

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[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Men are not allowed to dance. Imaam ibn al-Qayyim mentions in إغاثة اللهفان that a male who dances is a homosexual.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Also, men are supposed to be dressing according to the Sunnah. Walking around bare-headed outside is against the Sunnah, so for a man to "style his hair" is pointless, and if it is referring to the effeminate hairstyles males have adopted these days from the Kuffaar, then that is even worse.

[Kiro]

Also, men are supposed to be dressing according to the Sunnah. Walking around bare-headed outside is against the Sunnah, so for a man to "style his hair" is pointless, and if it is referring to the effeminate hairstyles males have adopted these days from the Kuffaar, then that is even worse.

Turbans FTW

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Turbans FTW

100%.

Not that red-and-white scarf they wear in Saudi. That's not from the Sunnah. It was never worn by Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم or the Sahaabah.

[Kiro]

100%.

Not that red-and-white scarf they wear in Saudi. That's not from the Sunnah. It was never worn by Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم or the Sahaabah.

I like all black

[Supernova]

I don't understand why men are allowed to dress fashionably, style their hair, are able to show their body except for their awrah and be able to sing and dance while women can't wear minimal makeup, have to wear baggy clothes, their clothes have to be unfashionable and dark, can't speak loudly or laugh in public, they can't sing, recite or dance either.

Why do women need to hide themselves so much when men don't?

Asalaamualaykum :
All the things that you listed as permissible for a man is ACTUALLY NOT in Islam.
Lets go one by one:
- Dress Fashionably ( This is only permissible if there is modesty in the clothing - Todays fashion of tight clothing is also disliked in islam as even if a man is covered, it is in his best interest that he has taqwa and modesty in his dress)
- Style hair: Certain hairstyles are disliked in islam. So there is a limitation.
- To show the body itself needs good reason even-though the awrah is from navel to knee. Even in hottest countries you will never find a man praying in Jamaah exposing even the permissible awrah.

It is unfortunate that today Muslim men have forgotten the ethics of dressing as much as woman have forgotten it. We all need to make an effort.

The general failure of any gender to practice the Sunnah is no excuse for the other gender to abandon the Sunnah.

Wasalaam.

[*charisma*]

I don't understand why men are allowed to dress fashionably, style their hair, are able to show their body except for their awrah and be able to sing and dance while women can't wear minimal makeup, have to wear baggy clothes, their clothes have to be unfashionable and dark, can't speak loudly or laugh in public, they can't sing, recite or dance either.

Why do women need to hide themselves so much when men don't?

I don't feel restricted. Women can dress fashionably as long as it's modest dress. It doesn't have to be dark, but it's better not to draw attention to one's self. And anyone who speaks loudly in public is obnoxious and lacks common courtesy. In the end, what is generally preferred for a woman, is also preferred for a man, but keep in mind that women are not men so let's stop comparing ourselves to them. The #1 reason why women have to cover themselves is because Allah ordained us to, and everything resulting from that is both a benefit and a blessing. If we keep focusing on the people around us then we lose focus on ourselves and we have a lot to improve within ourselves before putting all of our efforts into things that don't really matter like singing and wearing makeup.

[66moon]

Thank you guys for clearing things up for me. I don't have a problem with the hijab, I just want everyone to be treated equally. I want to dress fashionably (loose shirt and jeans) but I always get replies like "Pants aren't allowed for women" or "You're supposed to wear dark baggy clothes".

[Umm♥Layth]

Asalaam Aleikum,

The points you mentioned about men have already been addressed. Men should also dress modestly. A HUMAN with dignity and honor clothes himself/herself properly.

I think the main reason you find it "unfair" is because of the western ideas of equality. We should be able to do the same things men do right? Actually, that's not quite true. We are different creatures with different needs. If we all had the same rules and regulations, it would be very unfair.

Equality and Equity are not the same thing. Maybe if you internalize this and learn to appreciate and love the creation that you are, it won't feel so negative for you, insha'Allah.

Also, nobody said covering up meant always wearing black or dull colors. Pick your color according to your surroundings as to not be singled out. I find that in big cities or in large crowds here in north america, wearing all black makes one stick out like a sore thumb lol. My husband actually encouraged me to choose other abaya colors... it took me a while because I'm an all black type of gal, even before Islam :embarrass

[AbdurRahman.]

Thank you guys for clearing things up for me. I don't have a problem with the hijab, I just want everyone to be treated equally. I want to dress fashionably (loose shirt and jeans) but I always get replies like "Pants aren't allowed for women" or "You're supposed to wear dark baggy clothes".

Sis your still not allowed to wear jeans; they are tight fit right?, so they'll make you look more 'attractive'?; you get me sis?

basically the women are to help men not to look at them so they have to dress modestly

[Umm♥Layth]

Sis your still not allowed to wear jeans; they are tight fit right?, so they'll make you look more 'attractive'?; you get me sis?

basically the women are to help men not to look at them so they have to dress modestly

No, it isn't a woman's job to help men not look at them. That is the responsibility of the man alone.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas (radi Allahu anhu): "Al-Fadl bin Abbas rode behind Allah's Messenger (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) as his companion rider on the back portion of his she-camel on the day of Nahr (slaughtering of sacrifice, 10th Dhul-Hijja) and Al-Fadl was a handsome man. The Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) stopped to give the people verdicts (regarding their matters). In the meantime, a beautiful woman from the tribe of Khatham came, asking the verdict of Allah's Messenger. Al-Fadl started looking at her as her beauty attracted him. The Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) looked behind while Al-Fadl was looking at her; so the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) held out his hand backwards and caught the chin of Al-Fadl and turned his face (to the other side) in order that he should not gaze at her. She said, 'O Allah's Messenger! The obligation of performing Hajj enjoined by Allah on his worshippers has become due (compulsory) on my father who is an old man and who cannot sit firmly on the riding animal. Will it be sufficient that I perform Hajj on his behalf?' He said, 'Yes.'" [Sahih Bukhari]

This hadith gives several important rulings. One is that the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) acted himself, and made other men act, on Allah's orders to lower their gazes. [Quran 24: 27-29] We see in this hadith, that the Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) listened to the woman's question and answered it while not looking at her. He also turned the face of his cousin to the side who had been staring at the woman's beautiful face. He (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) did not ask the woman to cover her face.

A woman's dress code is to protect herself and honor herself. It does help the society as whole, but that's if MEN also follow their dress code and adhere to their rules and regulations.

I remember when I was not muslim and men would whistle or make it known they were looking at me (I was only a young girl!). It was THE WORST feeling ever. I felt very violated and humiliated that they were glancing at me without my consent. That's why when I discovered the abaya, there was no looking back! Alhamdullilah.

Dirty men are going to be dirty, whether a woman is covered or not!

[talibilm]

Also, men are supposed to be dressing according to the Sunnah. Walking around bare-headed outside is against the Sunnah, so for a man to "style his hair" is pointless, and if it is referring to the effeminate hairstyles males have adopted these days from the Kuffaar, then that is even worse.

:sl:

Yes we support the covering of head but mostly ahle hadith who came to clear of Biddah claim that nabi :saws: did keep his head uncovered SOMETIMES as in umrah, haj and also some hadiths point out that he left Aysha to comb from his adjoining room just entering his blessed head his/her room . So forcing NOT TO KEEP OPEN HEAD AT ALL (100%) IS against the sunnah and a biddah . so they refer keeping 75 % closed and at time should be open too as deen is not we derive but what we see from prophet :saws:

Any views on it bro. ?

Jazakallah khair

[talibilm]

Sis your still not allowed to wear jeans; they are tight fit right?, so they'll make you look more 'attractive'?; you get me sis?

basically the women are to help men not to look at them so they have to dress modestly

:sl:

Though a Sister does not agree to this ( i clicked ''like' for her other part of the post of dirty looks ) Bro, You are correct on this issue since we see these in our books as guidelines for women.

1) Not to talk ghair maghram men softly ( fascinating them)

2) To avoid walking creating sounds with their jewels (it mean like that worn on foot that Arabs and from sub continent use it )

3) To avoid using perfumes that flows through into the men ( If she does it inside home or women congregation its not barred )

So Islam is very precise, subhanallah from THE ALL WISE, Allah .


Clapping sound does not happen untill both palms co operate is a Thai proverb here so its true BOTH must co operate to avoiding evil and both must co operate to adjoin virtues. Men must not talk indirectly to a woman tempting her imo & vice versa too and many more since we all understand as we are grown up.

[66moon]

Asalaam Aleikum,

The points you mentioned about men have already been addressed. Men should also dress modestly. A HUMAN with dignity and honor clothes himself/herself properly.

I think the main reason you find it "unfair" is because of the western ideas of equality. We should be able to do the same things men do right? Actually, that's not quite true. We are different creatures with different needs. If we all had the same rules and regulations, it would be very unfair.

Equality and Equity are not the same thing. Maybe if you internalize this and learn to appreciate and love the creation that you are, it won't feel so negative for you, insha'Allah.

Also, nobody said covering up meant always wearing black or dull colors. Pick your color according to your surroundings as to not be singled out. I find that in big cities or in large crowds here in north america, wearing all black makes one stick out like a sore thumb lol. My husband actually encouraged me to choose other abaya colors... it took me a while because I'm an all black type of gal, even before Islam :embarrass

I understand, thank you.

[66moon]

:sl:

Though a Sister does not agree to this ( i clicked ''like' for her other part of the post of dirty looks ) Bro, You are correct on this issue since we see these in our books as guidelines for women.

1) Not to talk ghair maghram men softly ( fascinating them)


2) To avoid walking creating sounds with their jewels (it mean like that worn on foot that Arabs and from sub continent use it )

3) To avoid using perfumes that flows through into the men ( If she does it inside home or women congregation its not barred )

So Islam is very precise, subhanallah from THE ALL WISE, Allah .


Clapping sound does not happen untill both palms co operate is a Thai proverb here so its true BOTH must co operate to avoiding evil and both must co operate to adjoin virtues. Men must not talk indirectly to a woman intimidating her imo & vice versa too and many more since we all understand as we are grown up.

I haven't come across Muslim men who dress modestly all the time, they wear tight shirts, jeans and lots of perfume so I wasn't aware of the fact that men had to dress modestly too. Thank you for your reply.

[66moon]

Sis your still not allowed to wear jeans; they are tight fit right?, so they'll make you look more 'attractive'?; you get me sis?

basically the women are to help men not to look at them so they have to dress modestly

No, I'm talking about loose jeans.

[Indefinable]

I don't understand why men are allowed to dress fashionably, style their hair, are able to show their body except for their awrah and be able to sing and dance while women can't wear minimal makeup, have to wear baggy clothes, their clothes have to be unfashionable and dark, can't speak loudly or laugh in public, they can't sing, recite or dance either.

Why do women need to hide themselves so much when men don't?

Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I haven't read all the replies on this thread, so please forgive me if I am repeating what has been said before.

In Islaam, both men and women adhere to what the Shariah has stated.

Men are not permitted to 'sing' and 'dance' either.

Hayaa (Modesty) is a huge part of Islaam, (alhamdulillaah) which we have been blessed with.

Men and women are both required to dress appropriately and behave in the appropriate manner in public.

You can laugh/joke/play etc with female friends and even your Mahrams, there's no restriction on you in any way.

However, the restrictions you feel are there, are in fact to protect us women from the evils of society.

Alhamdulillaah.

Please ask more questions Insha'Allaah.

[66moon]

Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I haven't read all the replies on this thread, so please forgive me if I am repeating what has been said before.

In Islaam, both men and women adhere to what the Shariah has stated.

Men are not permitted to 'sing' and 'dance' either.

Hayaa (Modesty) is a huge part of Islaam, (alhamdulillaah) which we have been blessed with.

Men and women are both required to dress appropriately and behave in the appropriate manner in public.

You can laugh/joke/play etc with female friends and even your Mahrams, there's no restriction on you in any way.

However, the restrictions you feel are there, are in fact to protect us women from the evils of society.

Alhamdulillaah.

Please ask more questions Insha'Allaah.

Thank you for your reply

[sister herb]

No, I'm talking about loose jeans.

Many Muslim sisters use kind of clothes, not only abayas. Where you find the problem if wear kind of clothes if they are modest?

[aaj]

As'salaamu Alaikum,

Since outside is the men's world, per the sunnah they should go outside presentable and not looking like homeless bums. It does not mean they can go out and do whatever they want, they too have islamic guidelines they have to follow in how they carry themselves and how they conduct their affairs.

Women can wear makeup, dance, sing and fashionably do other stuff but inside their house among their mahrams, not outside in front of non-mahrams. This not only causes fitna for men but she also dishonor and devalues herself in such a careless manner. The west teaches us that it's "freedom", when all they are doing is objectifying you for the pleasure of their eyes.

Men and women were created with different roles in society. Men's role is dealing with the affairs of the outside while the women's role is dealing with the affairs inside the house.

Allah says,
“And abide quietly in your homes, and do not flaunt your charms as they used to flaunt them in the old days of pagan ignorance; and be constant in prayer, and render the purifying dues, and pay heed unto Allah and His Messenger: for Allah only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity.” [33:33]

According to Tafsir ibn Kathir, “And stay in your houses” means “stay in your houses and do not come out except for a purpose. According to Tafsir Maududi, the verse means to impress that the woman’s real sphere of activity is her home; she should carry out her functions within that sphere peacefully, and she should come out of the house only in case of a genuine need.

Read more here : http://muslimmatters.org/2010/06/30/...in-your-homes/

[Indefinable]

Thank you for your reply

You're welcome.

What did you make of my reply?

[Scimitar]

People keep saying that it's because women are supposed to be protected, but how is it a good thing if it becomes difficult to go about our daily lives without having to worry about so many things. I'm sure if a man looked good, girls would look at him and be attracted. Why is it different if it's a woman?

Islam isn't supposed to make things difficult.

There is hijab for man too - he must wear his trousers over his ankle and under the knee, and his beard is his sunnah, and he must observe clothing which does not reveal nor becomes overly flashy. He must cover between the naval and the knees. This is the mans protection.

What you need to ask is, who actually follows this? And you'll find that Muslim men follow it, unless we start to wear labels and graphics and loud colours, in which case they totally missed the point.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

No, it isn't a woman's job to help men not look at them. That is the responsibility of the man alone.



A woman's dress code is to protect herself and honor herself. It does help the society as whole, but that's if MEN also follow their dress code and adhere to their rules and regulations.

I remember when I was not muslim and men would whistle or make it known they were looking at me (I was only a young girl!). It was THE WORST feeling ever. I felt very violated and humiliated that they were glancing at me without my consent. That's why when I discovered the abaya, there was no looking back! Alhamdullilah.

Dirty men are going to be dirty, whether a woman is covered or not!

Sub'han'Allah sister, your comment reminded me of these ayaat.

"And recite to them, [O Muhammad], the news of him to whom we gave [knowledge of] Our signs, but he detached himself from them; so Satan pursued him, and he became of the deviators." Qur'an 7:175
"And if We had willed, we could have elevated him thereby, but he adhered [instead] to the earth and followed his own desire. So his example is like that of the dog: if you chase him, he pants, or if you leave him, he [still] pants. That is the example of the people who denied Our signs. So relate the stories that perhaps they will give thought." 7:176

As you said "Dirty men are going to be dirty, whether a woman is covered or not!"

[AbdurRahman.]

No, I'm talking about loose jeans.

they should be ok as long as you let your top garment [shirt] loosely hang down to near your knees!

the basic principle is to not let your body shape show! :)

proper womens clothing is ofcourse hijab and burkah etc, but above can be a start! :)

[AbdurRahman.]

No, it isn't a woman's job to help men not look at them. That is the responsibility of the man alone.

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf:

When a woman follows a manner in hijab, in clothing and etiquette, she actually protects men. It is because of men's weakness that the hijab was given. In reality, women are stronger in Shahwa (passion, urges), but the modesty component in them is greater which prevents them from doing the same things as men without restraint.

http://www.zaufishan.co.uk/2012/09/w...ad-reward.html

[talibilm]

The points you mentioned about men have already been addressed. Men should also dress modestly. A HUMAN with dignity and honor clothes himself/herself properly.

I think the main reason you find it "unfair" is because of the western ideas of equality.We should be able to do the same things men do right? Actually, that's not quite true. We are different creatures with different needs. If we all had the same rules and regulations, it would be very unfair.



Equality and Equity are not the same thing. Maybe if you internalize this and learn to appreciate and love the creation that you are, it won't feel so negative for you, insha'Allah.

:sl:

Dr Zakir Naik use to refute rebuke this Idiotic western idea of EQUALITY between men & women by this verse of the noble quran

The Noble Quran says something like the men have rights on women the women also have rights on Men. So he asks further, does this mean if a burglar breaks into your home, will you say to your wife, I believe in our equal rights so you please go and fight and wrestle with the burglar ?? ;D lol

similarly will a mother say as we have equal rights let the father take care of the new born when I am going to work ??

So Allah designed us in different way & charecterstics about self control etc (leaving out exceptions) so Allah's laws are different too for men & women.

[66moon]

You're welcome.

What did you make of my reply?

It has informed me about several things :)

[66moon]

Many Muslim sisters use kind of clothes, not only abayas. Where you find the problem if wear kind of clothes if they are modest?

I got told that women shouldn't be fashionable even if they're modest (loose clothing, not flashy, etc) because that would make us more attractive.

[66moon]

:sl:

Dr Zakir Naik use to refute rebuke this Idiotic western idea of EQUALITY between men & women by this verse of the noble quran

The Noble Quran says something like the men have rights on women the women also have rights on Men. So he asks further, does this mean if a burglar breaks into your home, will you say to your wife, I believe in our equal rights so you please go and fight and wrestle with the burglar ?? ;D lol

similarly will a mother say as we have equal rights let the father take care of the new born when I am going to work ??

So Allah designed us in different way & charecterstics about self control etc (leaving out exceptions) so Allah's laws are different too for men & women.

I've heard that women are allowed to work though, is that true?

[sister herb]

I got told that women shouldn't be fashionable even if they're modest (loose clothing, not flashy, etc) because that would make us more attractive.

What makes loose clothes fashionable in general?

[Simple_Person]

We as Muslims often are being caught up in things from cars to even fashion in this sense. However what we first must do is analyze the subject from bottom up.

What is the definition of fashion? This is one of the meanings, which i guess everybody can agree with me on it.

"style in clothes, cosmetics, behaviour, etc, esp the latest or most admired style"

Source used: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fashion

Admired by who? Society? Society now a days is SOOO POOR here in the west they cannot afford clothes that are not torn. I mean look at those jeans..all torn with big holes in it. So sad they have to walk in those clothes. I want to walk with them to a store even to buy them so clothes that are not torn...(Yes i know it is a joke, but i did it on intention so you get my point).

People BUY torn clothes now a days. I mean the MOST arrogant and rich person in history of mankind..would you see him wearing torn clothes? Would you be able to convince him that there would come a time people would BUY clothes that are torn.

So it is rather contradictory to go with this "fashion". I have a fake leather jacket more like a summer jacket, it is i believe already 8-9 years old. The outer side of it is like dry mud coming of..that you can easily pull it off. But i wear it why? My argument is, if this is not fashion of today, than for SURE those those torn jeans with big holes in it, do also not belong to "fashion" (why i wear it, because it still does what it needs to do. I am not bothered about it).

We ask almost never why we do what we do. Just follow like the sheep.

Look at this poor guy, he used to BBQ food for a living..now he got all holes in his t-shirt (yes it is a joke)

Or this guy he has laid so many bricks working on his knees, his pants is all torn up at the knees (yes it is also joke..but you get what i am trying to say)

So for us Muslims, i think it is kind of easy now a days with a lot of things to not do. Just matter of perspective. I mean if my grandparents with little money they had would not even buy torn clothes to go with this fashion why should i act like a fool and buy clothes that now a days are branded as fashionable. I don't fit either way, if i even wear those clothes, my mentality goes against their mentality. So am i a stranger in the society? I hope so.

[talibilm]

I've heard that women are allowed to work though, is that true?

:sl: Sister

Its deduced from the Incident of Shuaib AS (Musa' As's Father in Law ) 's daughters took their sheep for watering while their father was very old (nearly blind i think) and Musa AS met them on seeing their sad plight of being long waiting in a remote corner and asked them and so took their sheep to water as other men who were also feeding their cattle were obstructing them. so that those great Muslimas usually used to wait till those men had catered their cattle, water to its fill is seen from their words in the Noble Quran , which also proves THEY AVOIDED FREE MIXING.

It show's in DIRE NEED can work but should avoid free mixing. Certain rulings if its not found in us we are allowed to follow from our earlier Prophets which becomes APPARENT ONLY FROM THE NOBLE QURAN (not the distorted OT & NT )is what i heard .

Allah knows the best.

May the knowledgeable post on this issue.

[sister herb]

About the joke of torn clothes, it reminded to my mind the time when I traveled to Jordan at the first time. It was about 30 years ago and at that time torn clothes were fashionable. My friend used jeans which were torn when she left to the market. She returned very fast and changed. I asked why you did so and she told she couldn´t stand the looks of other people as they were full of pity and compassion when they looked hers jeans. "Oh what a poor poor girl, she can´t afford proper clothes", they felt of hers mind. And those jeans had been quite expensive when she bought them.

One´s fashion and sign of welfare might be other´s poverty.

[Simple_Person]

About the joke of torn clothes, it reminded to my mind the time when I traveled to Jordan at the first time. It was about 30 years ago and at that time torn clothes were fashionable. My friend used jeans which were torn when she left to the market. She returned very fast and changed. I asked why you did so and she told she couldn´t stand the looks of other people as they were full of pity and compassion when they looked hers jeans. "Oh what a poor poor girl, she can´t afford proper clothes", they felt of hers mind. And those jeans had been quite expensive when she bought them.

One´s fashion and sign of welfare might be other´s poverty.

HAHAHHAHAH sister, this gave me very a good laugh. jazakallahu khairan :Emoji7::Emoji7:

[Umm♥Layth]

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf:

When a woman follows a manner in hijab, in clothing and etiquette, she actually protects men. It is because of men's weakness that the hijab was given. In reality, women are stronger in Shahwa (passion, urges), but the modesty component in them is greater which prevents them from doing the same things as men without restraint.

http://www.zaufishan.co.uk/2012/09/w...ad-reward.html

Don't quote Hamza Yusuf without reading my post in full , lol. Your quote actually doesn't say it's a woman's responsibility, it says it is a form of protection for men, just as lowering your gaze is a protection for women because you do it whether she is covered or not. If you read my post, I clearly stated that when a woman covers it does help society as a whole, implying that it it protects both men and women from corruption. It is a shield, in other words. Also, the article you posted was put together by somebody else quoting the sheikh, I encourage you to find the full lecture and you'll see how he isn't one sided.

Furthermore, If you listen to ALL of Hamza Yusuf's work, he addresses men many times over and society as a unit. He is very big on that. The responsibility DOES NOT fall on the women to stop men from looking at them. Don't cherry pick and run with it please ;) It is that kind of backward thinking that pushes women away from Islam and it goes hand in hand with the cultural bias that women somehow are responsible for men's sins. Ridiculous!

Men and Women have a different set of rules which work together and shape society. Allah gave clear instruction to LOWER YOUR GAZE as a man. He also gave clear instructions for women to cover up. At no point was it implied that if women didn't cover, men are free to look. I hope this is clear.

I quoted a hadith, did you read it? If the prophet (saw) turned a man's head so he wouldn't look at this woman as well as answered her questions without looking at her, it CLEARLY shows that men are responsible for their actions. There's a fine line here that keeps getting crossed. I will reiterate once more, women are not responsible for a man's actions and it isn't her responsibility to prevent him from gazing at women. Men will stare at a fully covered woman or a fully naked woman if they are corrupted and do not fear Allah. End of.

[talibilm]

:sl:

Though a Sister does not agree to this ( i clicked ''like' for her other part of the post of dirty looks ) Bro, You are correct on this issue since we see these in our books as guidelines for women.

1) Not to talk ghair maghram men softly ( fascinating them)

2) To avoid walking creating sounds with their jewels (it mean like that worn on foot that Arabs and from sub continent use it )

3) To avoid using perfumes that flows through into the men ( If she does it inside home or women congregation its not barred )

So Islam is very precise, subhanallah from THE ALL WISE, Allah .


Clapping sound does not happen untill both palms co operate is a Thai proverb here so its true BOTH must co operate to avoiding evil and both must co operate to adjoin virtues. Men must not talk indirectly to a woman tempting her imo & vice versa too and many more since we all understand as we are grown up.

So Why these law's are for sister ? and even travelling for more than a day (or three days) alone for a women. Though every one is held for his or her's actions but there is factor called tempting factor which Allah wants to solve at its roots. Yes Man has to protect his eye sight as well as women but Allah ordered Hijab of women and hijab of men is beard is what I heard, do not know its a hadith or not.

[aaj]

I got told that women shouldn't be fashionable even if they're modest (loose clothing, not flashy, etc) because that would make us more attractive.

A Muslim woman is commanded to go out in hijab, not fashion. Fashion is for home and among females only. Purpose of fashion is to look attractive and attract attention, contrary to the purpose of hijab.

http://www.muslimtents.com/aminahswo...for_women.html

[Umm♥Layth]

So Why these law's are for sister ? and even travelling for more than a day (or three days) alone for a women. Though every one is held for his or her's actions but there is factor called tempting factor which Allah wants to solve at its roots. Yes Man has to protect his eye sight as well as women but Allah ordered Hijab of women and hijab of men is beard is what I heard, do not know its a hadith or not.

Allah ordered hijab for women and lowering of the gaze for men, those are just a couple of rules. As you said, it takes two hands to clap and it takes BOTH men and women to follow their laws in order to keep society free from corruption.

My beef here is that men from certain backgrounds love to make women fully responsible. It is the type of mentality the justifies rape "Oh she was wearing something provocative, so it was her fault". ^o) NO NO NO, it is your job as a man, to keep your eyes on the ground and your hands to yourself.

As I said, there is a fine line and it is often crossed and laws/restrictions for women are used to oppress them and used in a condescending manner to establish authority by men. This is not allowed. So please understand my point here.

There is a reason why this posts was even started, and that is because the moment a woman takes shahada or begins to practice her deen, she gets bombarded with do's and dont's and made to feel like the responsibility of society as a whole is on her shoulders, while men justify their ridiculousness. This is cultural bias, not Islam.

You have to step outside of yourself to try and understand how overwhelming it can be. The responsibility is fair and even for both men and women. Just as women shouldn't wear perfume around a non mahram and purposely speak in a seductive manner to non mahram men, men should not mix, intermingle, flirt, excessively speak to, stare at or intentionally seduce a woman.

Oh and just for the record, women love the scent of a masculine cologne/Oud. Men often times take this permissible act and overdo it, in spite of them very well knowing they will mix at work or school etc. They don't take into consideration that in the days of the prophet (saw) women didn't leave the house the way they do now. So when men perfumed up, they were mainly around other men. This isn't the case today.... but here we are focused day in and day out about what women should and shouldn't be doing lol.

Men are also technically allowed to show their chest, but it wasn't a common practice. Only the poor didn't have shirts to wear and so only the bare minimum was required for the men. Back in those days, men all wore thobes and PROPER clothing, not jeans and a t-shirt, which can hardly be considered proper attire, historically speaking. But today? Shirtless men all over magazines and everywhere you go (in hot climates usually). But it's okay... it is permissible.

Anyway, so we all agree that there's rules and regulations that need to be followed by both genders in order for society to remain functional and not corrupted right? The problem is that rules are often ignored, wrong actions are justified and things that are permissible are abused, so society suffers and that's where we are today. Everyone should really focus on their own actions and look at the ground while walking. Be humble :) Let a woman learning to wear hijab, do so at her own pace and back off!

;D love me a rant.

[AbdurRahman.]

Don't quote Hamza Yusuf without reading my post in full , lol. Your quote actually doesn't say it's a woman's responsibility, it says it is a form of protection for men, just as lowering your gaze is a protection for women because you do it whether she is covered or not. If you read my post, I clearly stated that when a woman covers it does help society as a whole, implying that it it protects both men and women from corruption. It is a shield, in other words. Also, the article you posted was put together by somebody else quoting the sheikh, I encourage you to find the full lecture and you'll see how he isn't one sided.

Furthermore, If you listen to ALL of Hamza Yusuf's work, he addresses men many times over and society as a unit. He is very big on that. The responsibility DOES NOT fall on the women to stop men from looking at them. Don't cherry pick and run with it please ;) It is that kind of backward thinking that pushes women away from Islam and it goes hand in hand with the cultural bias that women somehow are responsible for men's sins. Ridiculous!

Men and Women have a different set of rules which work together and shape society. Allah gave clear instruction to LOWER YOUR GAZE as a man. He also gave clear instructions for women to cover up. At no point was it implied that if women didn't cover, men are free to look. I hope this is clear.

I quoted a hadith, did you read it? If the prophet (saw) turned a man's head so he wouldn't look at this woman as well as answered her questions without looking at her, it CLEARLY shows that men are responsible for their actions. There's a fine line here that keeps getting crossed. I will reiterate once more, women are not responsible for a man's actions and it isn't her responsibility to prevent him from gazing at women. Men will stare at a fully covered woman or a fully naked woman if they are corrupted and do not fear Allah. End of.

eeek! :o dont do this dont do that?? you seem angry :Emoji46:

[Umm♥Layth]

eeek! :o dont do this dont do that?? you seem angry :Emoji46:

No way lol, I'm far from it. I've been muslim for well over a decade now, Alhamdullilah. At no point did I resent Islam for all of the guidelines we have, but I did learn really quick where alot of biased information was coming from :) and I'm not shy to speak out. I simply said don't cherry pick and if information is going to be gather, be sure it is in its entirety. Nothing wrong with that ;)

[talibilm]

Fair grievances from our Sisters. So All root causes of this fitna must be avoided .

Muslim :: Book 36 : Hadith 6606

Abu Sa'id Khudri reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The world is sweet and green (alluring) and verily Allah is going to install you as vicegerent in it in order to see how you act. So avoid the allurement of women verily, the first trial for the people of Israi'll was caused by women And in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Bashshar the words are:" So that He should see how you act."


Muslim :: Book 36 : Hadith 6603

Usama b. Zaid reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I have not left after me any (chance) of turmoil more injurious to men than the harm done to the men because of women.


Muslim :: Book 36 : Hadith 6604

Usama b. Zaid b. Harith and Sa'id b. Zaid b. 'Amr b. Naufal both reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I have not left after me turmoil for the people but the harm done to men by women.

Wassalam

[Umm♥Layth]

Fair grievances from our Sisters. So All root causes of this fitna must be avoided .

Muslim :: Book 36 : Hadith 6606

Abu Sa'id Khudri reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The world is sweet and green (alluring) and verily Allah is going to install you as vicegerent in it in order to see how you act. So avoid the allurement of women verily, the first trial for the people of Israi'll was caused by women And in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Bashshar the words are:" So that He should see how you act."


Muslim :: Book 36 : Hadith 6603

Usama b. Zaid reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I have not left after me any (chance) of turmoil more injurious to men than the harm done to the men because of women.


Muslim :: Book 36 : Hadith 6604

Usama b. Zaid b. Harith and Sa'id b. Zaid b. 'Amr b. Naufal both reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I have not left after me turmoil for the people but the harm done to men by women.

Wassalam

What are you trying to imply here? Before I say anything else, I'd like you to explain yourself and why you just dropped some hadith without context.

[noraina]

Assalamu alaykum,

I haven't read through this whole discussion, but a fundamental principle is that Islam isn't about 'equality is the conventional sense that everyone is treated the same, because this is such a vague ideal which doesn't take into account the unique attributes people have and would ultimately lead to this 'equality' benefitting some more than others. It is about fairness, the beauty and wisdom is that our deen takes into account what we need as humans and applies that.

There are separate regulations for men and women, because men and women are fundamentally different from each other in so many ways. So the separate guidelines concerning dress, marriage, behaviour, purity, ect, are inherently for our own benefit, I realise this now much more through my own experiences and those of everyone around me.

Of course, there is little doubt that women's behaviour is scrutinised and inspected far more than the behaviour of men. In some ways it makes sense, because of the integral role women have in bringing up the next generation, but too many times it is a harsh and cold microscopic glare which is really intimidating. We forget there are an equal amount of guidelines for men, yet these are rarely discussed or examined.

Being a Muslimah is wonderful alhamdulillah and as I have become closer to my deen I have never been happier, but the intense scrutiny can be pressurising. I am far from a perfect Muslim, but I need time, as does everyone else, to improve and change. And I noticed when I began wearing the full jilbaab - oh my days that expectation of me increased even more, lol.

[Serinity]

:salam:

Men have rights over women, and women have rights over men. Allah :swt: (afaik) has granted a degree of responsibility to men over women.

While we are not equal, this does not make women inferior in any way. Allah :swt: does not judge us based on gender, but on our deeds and piety. And none is superior than the other except in deeds and piety. (afaik)

Many get this misconception of "Men are superior to women" because men have a degree of responsibility over women, in being in charge of women.

we just have different roles. And oppression in marriage is haram. To make one's wife feel worthless and oppressed, etc.

AFAIK all the rules that apply to men apply to women, vica versa UNLESS otherwise is stated Qur'aan.
Allahu alam.

[talibilm]

What are you trying to imply here? Before I say anything else, I'd like you to explain yourself and why you just dropped some hadith without context.

:sl:

What Allah swt THE ALL WISE and his Noble Prophet :saws: has told is FINAL though exceptions will there not be included. If we speak against them then as a knowledgeable what will be our status hope you know about it

So its time for my fajr, sister, arguing too much is an act of satan's trait so I refrain from that.

May allah guide of all us.

[Umm♥Layth]

:sl:

What Allah swt THE ALL WISE and his Noble Prophet :saws: has told is FINAL though exceptions will there not be included. If we speak against them then as a knowledgeable what will be our status hope you know about it

So its time for my fajr, sister, arguing too much is an act of satan's trait so I refrain from that.

May allah guide of all us.

Telling me what you are trying to imply with the hadiths you posted is not arguing. It is clarification. I don't want to assume your intentions here, so it is up to you to clarify. Posting something like that and running away is not very honorable. People like to post hadith and Quran to make points and back up their opinion without considering their context and doing so causes huge misunderstandings.

con·textˈkäntekst/
noun

• the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

I spent quite a bit of time explaining some points and trying to help reach a mutual understanding (not for the sake of arguing) and you come and post hadith which can imply that men are victims of women and women are to blame for all the fitna of the world. This is why I asked for your clarification. Is that what you are trying to say? Yes or No?

[66moon]

Thanks a lot for all the replies, everyone.
But I don't understand, I'm supposed to try to look ugly when I go out? Someone here said that women cannot wear attractive clothes, which would mean that we have to wear unattractive clothes? I'm not speaking of the current Western fashion. This is what I mean : http://www.design2talk.com/wp-conten...-hijab-5-2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg


https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/f...n-Bloggers.png


http://www.hijabiworld.com/wp-conten...al5.jpg?x49854

[Simple_Person]

Thanks a lot for all the replies, everyone.
But I don't understand, I'm supposed to try to look ugly when I go out? Someone here said that women cannot wear attractive clothes, which would mean that we have to wear unattractive clothes? I'm not speaking of the current Western fashion. This is what I mean : http://www.design2talk.com/wp-conten...-hijab-5-2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg


https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/f...n-Bloggers.png


http://www.hijabiworld.com/wp-conten...al5.jpg?x49854

Sister you said it yourself. "Unattractive" ..comes from "attract"..Which alludes to people seeing you and drawn to you.

Definition of attractive (some used):

"appealing to the senses or mind through beauty, form, character, etc"
"arousing interest"

Source used: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/attractive

I see sisters now a days have descent clothes but the lower part of the legs they show they are wearing the tight pants. You have to understand that for us men when we even seen the thickness of the legs we fill out in our mind the rest of the body shape. For people who find this outrages for what i am saying, be thankful that i am sharing what is happening in the mind of men. Instead of shooting down the messenger, use this information to benefit from and ponder about. These for example:

http://www.design2talk.com/wp-conten...-hijab-5-2.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg

The picture of that other sister with lose clothes in blue I think was for my taste very good. No shape of her body whatsoever. Also my advice, to sisters in general..prevent using all to BRIGHT colors such as bright red or bright yellow and down that road. Just like some creatures don't see something if it doesn't move, it is the same with us human beings especially us men we notice bright colors as we are visually programmed for bigger part.

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/f...n-Bloggers.png

-

Sister in one of your comments you mentioned about some people blaming the woman when something happened to her. There are three types of men.

Type 1: lowers his gaze and can control himself.
Type 2: Doesn't lower his gaze and is difficult for him to control himself
Type 3: This guy is the example of the dog Allah (swt) used in the Qur'an. He will pant no matter if the woman is completely covered or not.

The type 2 guy is for bigger part the covered is meant for. If stage one fails (not lowering of the gaze) stage two is still active ..woman is covered so even if he looks he doesn't see anything. If he does see something that guy himself is to be blamed but also the woman for not doing whatever to protect her self by covering and prevent him seeing what he isn't allowed to see. So for women to cover is i would argue largely for their own protection from men who act upon what they see.

Well the third type. That guy will assault even a tree. These guys are filth of society but even a third precaution is taken towards these people. A male mahram is with her. So 3 protectons line. Lower the gaze for type 1. Covering of your body for the sister for type 2 and male mahram walking with her to protect her from type 3.

If there is a error in this logic, please do correct me.

[talibilm]

Telling me what you are trying to imply with the hadiths you posted is not arguing. It is clarification. I don't want to assume your intentions here, so it is up to you to clarify. Posting something like that and running away is not very honorable. People like to post hadith and Quran to make points and back up their opinion without considering their context and doing so causes huge misunderstandings.


I spent quite a bit of time explaining some points and trying to help reach a mutual understanding (not for the sake of arguing) and you come and post hadith which can imply that men are victims of women and women are to blame for all the fitna of the world. This is why I asked for your clarification. Is that what you are trying to say? Yes or No?

So what is the context there ? could you please teach us Sister, daughter.

Yes. Most (not all ) of the fitna starts from BAD women and even by this hadith its true. When you say Men should not wear tight cloths that's right i supported you but how do you know they wear tight cloths UNLESS you look or stare at them ?. So both men & women have to control the gaze. Every eye is lustful says another hadith. And May be since men are mostly out engaged in day today works they are more PRONE & vulnerable to control their eyes though I do ( Alhamdulilah ) so the reason here for the literal cover or hijab to women.


So now we have digged inside the PROBABLE root cause & apparent cause Why Allah has levied many more rules on women who was created from Ribs it seen in Hadith. whereas when a bad Women can be a fitna and Hell even in this world to her husband (hadith) & vice versa a good women can be paradise too (hadith) For a good family & children its the women who takes more credit than a husband.



Uncle Talibilm is 50 what has been said from the hadith is upto you accept it or not and another hadith points out more

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 24 :: Hadith 541

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."


So hope you will not further drag me into sinning by a argument by calling me not honorable :hmm: (its a Sin ) as in your above post which proves AGAIN the above hadith LIVE , since i never wished to reply you after fajr but you did win by dragging me here AGAIN :facepalm: (by your sharp words, tongue) and Prove the above hadith how even a wise cautious man (i am old so I hope am wise too inshallah, Allahul aalam ) can be mislead by some like you as EXACTLY pointed in the above hadith . I quote again

''O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray."

So Sister, daughter. So I shall keep my ideas as per hadith and its upto you whatever you are after at and Allah will clear us all on the DOJ.

Jazakallah * asalamualaikum.

[Nisamudheen]

Will reply

[Simple_Person]

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 24 :: Hadith 541

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."

Uncle, the funny thing is that many women and probably also men will be outraged about the part i made bolt. However instead of being outraged, a sister in general should better ponder about that part and realize from the bottom of her heart that this is something to be careful of. As Rasullah(saws) would NOT SAY such a thing IF it was not some piece of advice. As it is a weakness that can lead you astray and people around you, just like how the carnal desires of men are a GREAT fitna for the men. So instead of feeling insulted when somebody would point this out towards men that they are weak in their carnal desires as it is difficult for them to control, i as a man take that advice and try to find out whatever means to have better control over it. Also to be very cautious in situations even by NOT hanging out with people who have let their carnal desire lose. Such men will also change my behavior towards their behavior if i hang out with them.

So that would also mean for women i would suggest. To hang out with more wise women who have had some life experience compared to other women who have almost zero life experience. As they would also inject their mentality in to you.

I also remembered i believe @sister herb mentioned that women have bizarre logic as they would stay with losers as their husbands. While a intelligent person would have divorced such a man all along. I remember in my reply to that comment that if they would have the same logic and rationality we would have seen them like in animal kingdom. They would go from one partner to another every season or stay with the strongest or have multiple partners and get love from 1, money from the other and carnal desires from another one etc.. If he would get old and weak, they would leave him for a stronger partner. So rather it is also a blessing, as men have been ordered as protectors and providers over women. She doesn't have to work, however if she does want all her money belongs to her.

Some blessings are given to her and some blessings are given to him. Together (completion of the deen) when they marry they complete one another's deficient side.

[Serinity]

:salam:

What about we talk about the do's and don't 's in marriage?

Like, what can a man NOT do etc. Cuz I feel this is more of a current issue with the Ummah, that they don't know their RIGHTS upon the other. Like, for men, all they think about is the women's obligation upon them (as a wife) while they don't think the other way around (which they should).

What about we talk about the restrictions on women and men? AND back it up with Quraan AND tafsir?

Not only the restrictions on women, but also men.

Allahu alam

[Simple_Person]

:salam:

What about we talk about the do's and don't 's in marriage?

Like, what can a man NOT do etc. Cuz I feel this is more of a current issue with the Ummah, that they don't know their RIGHTS upon the other. Like, for men, all they think about is the women's obligation upon them (as a wife) while they don't think the other way around (which they should).

Allahu alam

I 100% agree with you and also argue that. If we men, dress nice, brush our teeth, make her feel special, help out in the household, work out to look nice for our wife you name it. She will give your rights automatically.

So i am of opinion that in a marriage it MUST start with the husband. If he doesn't do his best, she will not give back twice the amount of goodness you gave her. However there are women if you still do your best they won't give you your rights. These women as well such men like them i BELIEVE have a faulty fitrah. Nothing to do about such men and women. As their love for Allah(swt) has faded away in their hearts. The more you love Allah(swt) the more you give to your spouse. The less you love Allah(swt) (having a faulty fitrah) the more you do injustice.

Everything for the bigger part is interconnected with each other. Right of wives, rights of husbands..all comes down back to your connection to Allah(swt). The person who has a good relationship with Allah(swt) will not look at what his rights are, as Allah(swt) has given him eyes to see, food to eat, bed to sleep, brain to think etc already as a blessing..so DOES NOT feel entitled to anything. Rather such a person would rather worry about not doing injustice to anybody as on the Day of Judgement this all will come back at him/her (loosing good deeds).

[Umm♥Layth]

Thanks a lot for all the replies, everyone.
But I don't understand, I'm supposed to try to look ugly when I go out? Someone here said that women cannot wear attractive clothes, which would mean that we have to wear unattractive clothes? I'm not speaking of the current Western fashion. This is what I mean : http://www.design2talk.com/wp-conten...-hijab-5-2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg


https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/f...n-Bloggers.png


http://www.hijabiworld.com/wp-conten...al5.jpg?x49854

It doesn't have to be ugly. If you consider abayas to be ugly, then it is your perspective and psychology that have to change, not the clothes. I find abayas to be very elegant, classy, pretty and they do the job of covering what needs to be covered. You can also try long flowy skirts with long, pretty tunics and a long cardigan. The key is to make sure your curves don't show, so attire cannot be tight. Don't let any one person limit your creativity as far as how you can dress. You should also consider your surroundings when you choose your attire so you know if you can dress up or need to tone it down :)

[Umm♥Layth]

So what is the context there ? could you please teach us Sister, daughter.

Yes. Most (not all ) of the fitna starts from BAD women and even by this hadith its true. When you say Men should not wear tight cloths that's right i supported you but how do you know they wear tight cloths UNLESS you look or stare at them ?. So both men & women have to control the gaze. Every eye is lustful says another hadith. And May be since men are mostly out engaged in day today works they are more PRONE & vulnerable to control their eyes though I do ( Alhamdulilah ) so the reason here for the literal cover or hijab to women.


So now we have digged inside the PROBABLE root cause & apparent cause Why Allah has levied many more rules on women who was created from Ribs it seen in Hadith. whereas when a bad Women can be a fitna and Hell even in this world to her husband (hadith) & vice versa a good women can be paradise too (hadith) For a good family & children its the women who takes more credit than a husband.



Uncle Talibilm is 50 what has been said from the hadith is upto you accept it or not and another hadith points out more

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 24 :: Hadith 541

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."


So hope you will not further drag me into sinning by a argument by calling me not honorable :hmm: (its a Sin ) as in your above post which proves AGAIN the above hadith LIVE , since i never wished to reply you after fajr but you did win by dragging me here AGAIN :facepalm: (by your sharp words, tongue) and Prove the above hadith how even a wise cautious man (i am old so I hope am wise too inshallah, Allahul aalam ) can be mislead by some like you as EXACTLY pointed in the above hadith . I quote again

''O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray."

So Sister, daughter. So I shall keep my ideas as per hadith and its upto you whatever you are after at and Allah will clear us all on the DOJ.

Jazakallah * asalamualaikum.

Uncle, a healthy discussion is not an argument. We are here mainly to learn from each other. If you think I am trying to argue, I urge you to reconsider. It is difficult to tell the feeling behind words on a forum. At no point have I been angry or intentionally insulted anyone (I apologize if what I said was rude).

I completely understand your perspective and I do have a lengthy answer, but I will start a thread for that discussion at some point today, insha'Allah, as this thread is getting derailed. Thank you for your input, it is very much appreciated and I look forward to further discussing this topic with you and others. :)

[azc]

I don't understand why men are allowed to dress fashionably, style their hair, are able to show their body except for their awrah and be able to sing and dance while women can't wear minimal makeup, have to wear baggy clothes, their clothes have to be unfashionable and dark, can't speak loudly or laugh in public, they can't sing, recite or dance either.

Why do women need to hide themselves so much when men don't?

It is not true that only women are restricted, the fact is that both are injuncted to abide by certain restrictions.

Shariah laws are equally implemented to all irrespective of the gender, however, concerning the awrah of the body women have more restrictions than men because of differences in physique.

[azc]

I don't understand why men are allowed to dress fashionably, style their hair, are able to show their body except for their awrah and be able to sing and dance while women can't wear minimal makeup, have to wear baggy clothes, their clothes have to be unfashionable and dark, can't speak loudly or laugh in public, they can't sing, recite or dance either.

Why do women need to hide themselves so much when men don't?

People keep saying that it's because women are supposed to be protected, but how is it a good thing if it becomes difficult to go about our daily lives without having to worry about so many things. I'm sure if a man looked good, girls would look at him and be attracted. Why is it different if it's a woman?

Islam isn't supposed to make things difficult.

Both men and women should keep their down

[azc]

As'salaamu Alaikum,

Since outside is the men's world, per the sunnah they should go outside presentable and not looking like homeless bums. It does not mean they can go out and do whatever they want, they too have islamic guidelines they have to follow in how they carry themselves and how they conduct their affairs.

Women can wear makeup, dance, sing and fashionably do other stuff but inside their house among their mahrams, not outside in front of non-mahrams. This not only causes fitna for men but she also dishonor and devalues herself in such a careless manner. The west teaches us that it's "freedom", when all they are doing is objectifying you for the pleasure of their eyes.

Men and women were created with different roles in society. Men's role is dealing with the affairs of the outside while the women's role is dealing with the affairs inside the house.

Allah says,
“And abide quietly in your homes, and do not flaunt your charms as they used to flaunt them in the old days of pagan ignorance; and be constant in prayer, and render the purifying dues, and pay heed unto Allah and His Messenger: for Allah only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity.” [33:33]

According to Tafsir ibn Kathir, “And stay in your houses” means “stay in your houses and do not come out except for a purpose. According to Tafsir Maududi, the verse means to impress that the woman’s real sphere of activity is her home; she should carry out her functions within that sphere peacefully, and she should come out of the house only in case of a genuine need.

Read more here : http://muslimmatters.org/2010/06/30/...in-your-homes/

You allowed dancing?

Dancing with or without music....? ???

[azc]

QUOTE=talibilm;2954347]So what is the context there ? could you please teach us Sister, daughter.

Yes. Most (not all ) of the fitna starts from BAD women and even by this hadith its true. When you say Men should not wear tight cloths that's right i supported you but how do you know they wear tight cloths UNLESS you look or stare at them ?. So both men & women have to control the gaze. Every eye is lustful says another hadith. And May be since men are mostly out engaged in day today works they are more PRONE & vulnerable to control their eyes though I do ( Alhamdulilah ) so the reason here for the literal cover or hijab to women.


So now we have digged inside the PROBABLE root cause & apparent cause Why Allah has levied many more rules on women who was created from Ribs it seen in Hadith. whereas when a bad Women can be a fitna and Hell even in this world to her husband (hadith) & vice versa a good women can be paradise too (hadith) For a good family & children its the women who takes more credit than a husband.



Uncle Talibilm is 50 what has been said from the hadith is upto you accept it or not and another hadith points out more

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 24 :: Hadith 541

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."


So hope you will not further drag me into sinning by a argument by calling me not honorable :hmm: (its a Sin ) as in your above post which proves AGAIN the above hadith LIVE , since i never wished to reply you after fajr but you did win by dragging me here AGAIN :facepalm: (by your sharp words, tongue) and Prove the above hadith how even a wise cautious man (i am old so I hope am wise too inshallah, Allahul aalam ) can be mislead by some like you as EXACTLY pointed in the above hadith . I quote again

''O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray."

So Sister, daughter. So I shall keep my ideas as per hadith and its upto you whatever you are after at and Allah will clear us all on the DOJ.

Jazakallah * asalamualaikum.[/QUOTE]


What is the need to quote these ahadith?

[aaj]

Thanks a lot for all the replies, everyone.
But I don't understand, I'm supposed to try to look ugly when I go out? Someone here said that women cannot wear attractive clothes, which would mean that we have to wear unattractive clothes? I'm not speaking of the current Western fashion. This is what I mean : http://www.design2talk.com/wp-conten...-hijab-5-2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg


https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/f...n-Bloggers.png


http://www.hijabiworld.com/wp-conten...al5.jpg?x49854

No one said you should start looking ugly. Millions of women go out dressed modestly without having anything to do with fashion or attracting attention.


Regarding your "islamic fashion" pics in view of the islamic hijab criteria:

first one is fine in terms of length but not looseness. It should be loose enough not to show the shape of the body, which is not the case with the arms and legs in the picture, and that scarf needs to cover the chest as well.

second image is better but same deal with the arms and legs.

third image seems fine although they look more like bed pjs then fashion lol

last image is how most hijabis go today. the t-shirt underneath is tight, pant is fine if the top layer came down enough to the thighs. But over all it's too eye catching and 'attractive' looking, hijab means to 'conceal' and stand out.

Some beautify their hijab so much that the hijab needs an hijab.

[aaj]

You allowed dancing?

Dancing with or without music....? ???

where in my response did you find that?

[azc]

where in my response did you find that?

Would you read your own post I quoted...
I think you should keep remember what you post.

You allowed make up singing and dancing inside home.

[aaj]

Would you read your own post I quoted...
I think you should keep remember what you post.

You allowed make up singing and dancing inside home.

I thought you were referring to men. But yes, females can do that at home.

[azc]

@aaj
You wrote :

"Women can wear makeup, dance, sing and fashionably do other stuff but inside their house among their mahrams,"

[azc]

I thought you were referring to men. But yes, females can do that at home.

What you're saying!
You mean singing dancing is allowed for women but not for men? ?

How did you conclude this permission for women and prohibition for men? ??

[aaj]

What you're saying!
You mean singing dancing is allowed for women but not for men? ?

How did you conclude this permission for women and prohibition for men? ??

It is a feminine trait reserved for the females, not men.

https://islamqa.info/en/9290

[66moon]

No one said you should start looking ugly. Millions of women go out dressed modestly without having anything to do with fashion or attracting attention.


Regarding your "islamic fashion" pics in view of the islamic hijab criteria:

first one is fine in terms of length but not looseness. It should be loose enough not to show the shape of the body, which is not the case with the arms and legs in the picture, and that scarf needs to cover the chest as well.

second image is better but same deal with the arms and legs.

third image seems fine although they look more like bed pjs then fashion lol

last image is how most hijabis go today. the t-shirt underneath is tight, pant is fine if the top layer came down enough to the thighs. But over all it's too eye catching and 'attractive' looking, hijab means to 'conceal' and stand out.

Some beautify their hijab so much that the hijab needs an hijab.

What do you mean? The sleeves aren't even tight.

[aaj]

What do you mean? The sleeves aren't even tight.

What do you mean? They are skin tight.

compare these sleeves : https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg

to these : https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...CIoQvxMIzgUwIw

[talibilm]

Will reply

:sl:

say Inshallah , bro.

[azc]

It is a feminine trait reserved for the females, not men.

https://islamqa.info/en/9290

This fatwa of Islamqa is self contradictory.

[AbdurRahman.]

Thanks a lot for all the replies, everyone.
But I don't understand, I'm supposed to try to look ugly when I go out? Someone here said that women cannot wear attractive clothes, which would mean that we have to wear unattractive clothes? I'm not speaking of the current Western fashion. This is what I mean : http://www.design2talk.com/wp-conten...-hijab-5-2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg


https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/f...n-Bloggers.png


http://www.hijabiworld.com/wp-conten...al5.jpg?x49854

lol i understand your predicament sis :Emoji48:

i think it would be ok for you to get to a higher spiritual state gradually, where you dont care about 'beauty' any more but just not to attract any gazes from men! :), so as long as you wear loose clothing that covers the entire body [except hands feet and face] thats ok for now :)

[66moon]

What do you mean? They are skin tight.

compare these sleeves : https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg

to these : https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...CIoQvxMIzgUwIw

I was talking about the first picture. The second link doesn't work btw

[66moon]

lol i understand your predicament sis :Emoji48:

i think it would be ok for you to get to a higher spiritual state gradually, where you dont care about 'beauty' any more but just not to attract any gazes from men! :), so as long as you wear loose clothing that covers the entire body [except hands feet and face] thats ok for now :)

Thank you for your reply

[aaj]

I was talking about the first picture. The second link doesn't work btw

even the first picture, those sleeves are tighter then a normal hoodie, which would be fine if one would wear something over that.

see if you can access it now: http://www.zappos.com/p/free-people-cocoon-cowl-pullover-oatmeal/product/8432483/color/907

Ideally, this is what loose clothes look like : https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB14ccXO...ose-b-font.jpg

[66moon]

Yes, I can access it now, thank you for your reply.

[OmAbdullah]

Asalaamualaykum :
All the things that you listed as permissible for a man is ACTUALLY NOT in Islam.
Lets go one by one:
- Dress Fashionably ( This is only permissible if there is modesty in the clothing - Todays fashion of tight clothing is also disliked in islam as even if a man is covered, it is in his best interest that he has taqwa and modesty in his dress)
- Style hair: Certain hairstyles are disliked in islam. So there is a limitation.
- To show the body itself needs good reason even-though the awrah is from navel to knee. Even in hottest countries you will never find a man praying in Jamaah exposing even the permissible awrah.

It is unfortunate that today Muslim men have forgotten the ethics of dressing as much as woman have forgotten it. We all need to make an effort.

The general failure of any gender to practice the Sunnah is no excuse for the other gender to abandon the Sunnah.

Wasalaam.

Maasha-Allah, very beautiful answers. Jazaak-Allaho khairan katheeran katheera!!!

[SilentSacrifice]

“Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And God is well acquainted with all that they do” - 24:30.

Modesty also applies to men. I don't see how a man walking around shirtless is being modest in looks. If men think that women should cover up so that they're not tempted to look then why do they think the same doesn't apply to them? Do women not find men attractive?
BOTH men and women are told to lower their gaze. It doesn't say to only lower your gaze if a women is covered, or lower your gaze if a man is covered. Lower your gaze and be modest. End off.