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*charisma*
03-21-2017, 03:01 PM
Assalamu Alaikum


So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?
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Umm♥Layth
03-21-2017, 03:37 PM
A better question would be, is it your place to tell her anything as a non mahram?

I've never even seen a sheikh or imam at the masjid correct a sister who walks in with inappropriate attire.

My husband won't simply tell me, if he sees my hijab loose or my clothes too snug, he'll fix it for me LOL. My dad always commented on my attire growing up and my family isn't Muslim. That's being a true guardian of women, imo.

I would not welcome a strange man telling me how to dress, he shouldn't even be looking at me, let alone talking to me, but if it is a mahram male, I will consider and in most cases take action :).
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Simple_Person
03-21-2017, 04:16 PM
Nope, the sisters who are dressed inappropriate are brainwashed. What i mean by brainwashed is they see left as right and right as left in the subject of clothing. Dressing such clothes is for them normal and "freedom"....yeah.."freedom". For me rather it is a sign that her fitrah is messed up as she has lost her shame for bigger part. Although you see sometimes the fitrah correcting it self when she for example walks by and tries to bull down her shirt over her behind to cover it so the men there don't look at it. This happens automatically. When she likes somebody, she would rather use her body to seduce the guy. Very evil practice if you ask me.

I rather would play the psychological game with her. Do exactly the opposite what people now a days do. Do NOT look at her, do NOT greet her..see her as if she doesn't exist. This with the hope that she starts pondering why you behave so odd compared to other men who look at her with lust. This often will in'sha'Allah trigger something in her and investigate what is going on instead of staying a sheep. Women dress to impress, if somebody is not impressed often she becomes enraged one could say. Somebody who is not impressed by her beauty is as if you stabbed her heart.

Is he gay and thus he doesn't look at me? But if he was gay, he would at least have greeted me or looked at me and still does not even do that. What is going on? Am i not beautiful enough that he doesn't look at me? But that doesn't make sense because ALL the men give me attention. What is going on? Let me talk to him (Asks you something..you give her a normal and respectful answer to her question and goes on with your business not giving her any attention except answer the question). This will mess with her mind VERY VERY good that she starts pondering about things. Women are obsessive beings. You can mentally break a woman with just 1 sentence. So psychology is a good way to trigger their pondering and in'sha'Allah she her self will correct herself and Allah(swt) guides her about shame and clothing aspect.
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sister herb
03-21-2017, 04:24 PM
I feel it would to be very embarassing if some unknown brother comes to correct me about dressing. As well I wouldn´t correct any brother because of his dressing or if I see he´s doing something what is forbidden in Islam. I just make dua that Allah will guides him.

Sisters have corrected me but that´s the other thing.
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*charisma*
03-21-2017, 05:09 PM
Gotta give it to the sisters for answering a question intended for the brothers ;D jazakum allahu khair for your replies nonetheless.


format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
A better question would be, is it your place to tell her anything as a non mahram?

I've never even seen a sheikh or imam at the masjid correct a sister who walks in with inappropriate attire.

My husband won't even tell me, if he sees my hijab loose or my clothes too snug, he'll fix it for me LOL. My dad always commented on my attire growing up and my family isn't Muslim.

I would not welcome a strange man telling me how to dress, he shouldn't even be looking at me, let alone talking to me, but if it is a mahram male, I will consider and in most cases take action .
Would you feel the same about a sister approaching you?


format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Nope, the sisters who are dressed inappropriate are brainwashed. What i mean by brainwashed is they see left as right and right as left in the subject of clothing. Dressing such clothes is for them normal and "freedom"....yeah.."freedom". For me rather it is a sign that her fitrah is messed up as she has lost her shame for bigger part. Although you see sometimes the fitrah correcting it self when she for example walks by and tries to bull down her shirt over her behind to cover it so the men there don't look at it. This happens automatically. When she likes somebody, she would rather use her body to seduce the guy. Very evil practice if you ask me.

I rather would play the psychological game with her. Do exactly the opposite what people now a days do. Do NOT look at her, do NOT greet her..see her as if she doesn't exist. This with the hope that she starts pondering why you behave so odd compared to other men who look at her with lust. This often will in'sha'Allah trigger something in her and investigate what is going on instead of staying a sheep. Women dress to impress, if somebody is not impressed often she becomes enraged one could say. Somebody who is not impressed by her beauty is as if you stabbed her heart.

Is he gay and thus he doesn't look at me? But if he was gay, he would at least have greeted me or looked at me and still does not even do that. What is going on? Am i not beautiful enough that he doesn't look at me? But that doesn't make sense because ALL the men give me attention. What is going on? Let me talk to him (Asks you something..you give her a normal and respectful answer to her question and goes on with your business not giving her any attention except answer the question). This will mess with her mind VERY VERY good that she starts pondering about things. Women are obsessive beings. You can mentally break a woman with just 1 sentence. So psychology is a good way to trigger their pondering and in'sha'Allah she her self will correct herself and Allah(swt) guides her about shame and clothing aspect.
So you're telling me, if you see a muslimah who's sitting alone at a bench in a park, say reading a book, minding her own business, her hijaab is on improperly or something...you automatically assume she's wearing her hijaab improperly for attention, and you would "ignore her" because her attention is really secretly focused on you and how you behave around her, so when she sees you there ignoring her she's going to think "oh this hot guy over there is straight up ignoring me, I wonder why???" Bro seriously???? loool And do you really think this is effective?
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M.I.A.
03-21-2017, 05:17 PM
no. not really..

most of the day im sat infront of a big window watching the world go by anyway.

if my eyes are drawn to anything then its more the fault of my eyes..

great for developing peripheral vision anyway.

predators usually have narrower fields of vision.
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Simple_Person
03-21-2017, 05:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

So you're telling me, if you see a muslimah who's sitting alone at a bench in a park, say reading a book, minding her own business, her hijaab is on improperly or something...you automatically assume she's wearing her hijaab improperly for attention, and you would "ignore her" because her attention is really secretly focused on you and how you behave around her, so when she sees you there ignoring her she's going to think "oh this hot guy over there is straight up ignoring me, I wonder why???" Bro seriously???? loool And do you really think this is effective?
Are you serious? Look at the topic name + your first comment.

Topic name: do brothers tell sisters to cover up?
Your first comment: So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?

There are sisters who are wearing hijab, but have such tight pants you would think if she would bend, her pants would be torn =_=!. This is my argument about. If a sister is properly covered with abaya for example but hijab is forgotten at some part or put on wrong, it is not my job to correct her. For me if i even see in the distance that a woman is sitting there, i already look down till i pass her by.

While you out of the blue has suddenly made it as if this topic was about a descent muslimah that just forget to cover some part of her hair =_=!. If this whole topic is about that what you just mentioned, i would like i said already have walked by her not even looking at her. I would already be SUPER satisfied that she respects her body and has shame to cover up properly but just forget some piece of hair sticking out. Islam is not about STRICT ruling and we all make mistakes and she must have forgotten about covering that part of her hair. People doing things out of ignorance are not looked down at you know. In the Middle East the ALL know they MUST cover their hair. But this stupid fashion from Iran with leaving out some part of their hair because it has become fashion among women =_=!. These women i would not even speak to, as they KNOW they are not allowed to do that, so it is not out of ignorance. As own family members do that. So what do i say about as they see me as if i am a extremist if i would bring up such a thing. Well ALHAMDULILLAH that every person is judged for their own deeds and according to their knowledge.

So i would say read your own topic first and than read my comment. OR change your topic name and first comment and i will in'sha'Allah also remove my comment..as it will also become off topic.
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sister herb
03-21-2017, 05:28 PM
The think what would come to my mind if some brother comes to correct my dressing is... "so he didn´t lower his gaze then but stared at me".

Should I then correct him that staring isn´t allowed either? :giggling:
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aaj
03-21-2017, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum


So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?
:wasalam:

Only online. I hardly see Muslims except in the masjid. When I do, i just mind my own business.

and this is why...
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
The think what would come to my mind if some brother comes to correct my dressing is... "so he didn´t lower his gaze then but stared at me".

Should I then correct him that staring isn´t allowed either?

@sister herb : Think of it this way. would you rather a brother bring it to your attention if your hair, neck or some other part is showing or go home at end of the day and get a shock when you look in the mirror?



format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Nope, the sisters who are dressed inappropriate are brainwashed. What i mean by brainwashed is they see left as right and right as left in the subject of clothing. Dressing such clothes is for them normal and "freedom"....yeah.."freedom". For me rather it is a sign that her fitrah is messed up as she has lost her shame for bigger part. Although you see sometimes the fitrah correcting it self when she for example walks by and tries to bull down her shirt over her behind to cover it so the men there don't look at it. This happens automatically. When she likes somebody, she would rather use her body to seduce the guy. Very evil practice if you ask me.
Don't be too harsh in your view of things bro. There are sisters and brothers who grew up not knowing much about Islam because their parents didn't teach them or taught them the cultural islam. I"ve given dawah to sisters online and they have gone from dressing like westerners to throws their whole wardrobe out the window and buying a whole new loose fitting wadrobe to taking their pictures off of social media sites, etc.
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Simple_Person
03-21-2017, 05:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj

Don't be too harsh in your view of things bro. There are sisters and brothers who grew up not knowing much about Islam because their parents didn't teach them or taught them the cultural islam. I"ve given dawah to sisters online and they have gone from dressing like westerners to throws their whole wardrobe out the window and buying a whole new loose fitting wadrobe to taking their pictures off of social media sites, etc.
This isn't about harshness. I have also talked with sisters online about clothing and they for example having shared their pictures with the whole world to see. I have advised them and 1 listened to me for like 1 week and then changed back to what she was doing before. Change isn't easy. Often it takes us to change our world 180 degrees. I left her as it is. The other sisters who out of culture are doing that, well my "harshness" is the Islamic way bro =_=!. We in Islam look down when we see a sister. We do not greet her if she passes by, we do not shake her hand. ..or is this extremism? I ONLY shake hands during job interviews or something in the direction of that seriousness. As choosing between two evils, making it more hard to have a descent job or shaking hand just once. So if you even follow Islamic way, you automatically do EXACTLY the same. As you act odd compared to other men who also have contact with that sister.
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aaj
03-21-2017, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
This isn't about harshness. I have also talked with sisters online about clothing and they for example having shared their pictures with the whole world to see. I have advised them and 1 listened to me for like 1 week and then changed back to what she was doing before. Change isn't easy. Often it takes us to change our world 180 degrees. I left her as it is. The other sisters who out of culture are doing that, well my "harshness" is the Islamic way bro =_=!. We in Islam look down when we see a sister. We do not greet her if she passes by, we do not shake her hand. ..or is this extremism? I ONLY shake hands during job interviews or something in the direction of that seriousness. As choosing between two evils, making it more hard to have a descent job or shaking hand just once. So if you even follow Islamic way, you automatically do EXACTLY the same. As you act odd compared to other men who also have contact with that sister.
There are lots of ifs and buts. There's lot of out of norm and exceptions. There are lot of muslims that you can't tell they are muslim unless they tell you. What you said seemed more like directed at women in general rather then Muslimahs in particular. while there are those who are lost and do dress as such. However, you are wrong to assume "sisters who are dressed inappropriate are brainwashed. What i mean by brainwashed is they see left as right and right as left in the subject of clothing". There sisters out there who genuinely don't know any better. Let me give you an example.

I used to have islamic profiles on social medias back in college days, places like myspace.com, hi5.com and the likes. I would leave comments on sisters and brother's profiles or pictures with islamic reminders. You can check out my hi5 profile (https://hi5.com/dawaah). Check out the gallery in there, check out pics especially one related to women. I met this one 16 old girl there who wore tight tops and had her pictures online. Her family told her to not put her pictures online but she didn't listen. After talking to me for a few days, she not only took her picture off the web but also took all her tight clothes out from the closet and set it aside. She went out on the weekend and bought some loose ones. She also started paying more attention to her salah, thinking about wearing hijab and learning more about her deen. So you see she dressed inappropriately not because she was brainwashed but because no one told her about the deen and how Islam values and honors her.
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M.I.A.
03-21-2017, 06:01 PM
i think it gets more complicated if there are a number of people present.

..and context.

in which case even the manner of noticing and tact in dealing with the situation are.. character building.

mankind is insolence and competition.

if you are not forced into a corner you should find the end of the wall.

because lets face it, we are all apparently less than reasonable in the head.
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Simple_Person
03-21-2017, 06:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
There are lots of ifs and buts. There's lot of out of norm and exceptions. There are lot of muslims that you can't tell they are muslim unless they tell you. What you said seemed more like directed at women in general rather then Muslimahs in particular. while there are those who are lost and do dress as such. However, you are wrong to assume "sisters who are dressed inappropriate are brainwashed. What i mean by brainwashed is they see left as right and right as left in the subject of clothing". There sisters out there who genuinely don't know any better. Let me give you an example.

I used to have islamic profiles on social medias back in college days, places like myspace.com, hi5.com and the likes. I would leave comments on sisters and brother's profiles or pictures with islamic reminders. You can check out my hi5 profile (https://hi5.com/dawaah). Check out the gallery in there, check out pics especially one related to women. I met this one 16 old girl there who wore tight tops and had her pictures online. Her family told her to not put her pictures online but she didn't listen. After talking to me for a few days, she not only took her picture off the web but also took all her tight clothes out from the closet and set it aside. She went out on the weekend and bought some loose ones. She also started paying more attention to her salah, thinking about wearing hijab and learning more about her deen. So you see she dressed inappropriately not because she was brainwashed but because no one told her about the deen and how Islam values and honors her.
Bro, you are EXACTLY saying what i am saying (brainwashed). Your approach to that part of my comment is rather wrong. Your question should have been by whom? My argument would have been by society. That innocent 16 year old girl, didn't know better because of society brainwashing her to dress like that as something normal. While when we start pondering really about the things we do and don't do in society, suddenly things don't make sense like for a sister wearing tight clothes as men would look at her with lust and not really care for her character or personality.
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M.I.A.
03-21-2017, 06:13 PM
in the end if you do not forbid what the prophet pbuh forbid then it is a very big.. sin?

somebody should quote that ayat because i dont know it.

sad thing is that in todays world it would probably just feel like a big slap in the face to do so.

..i guess its not a hypocrites calling.

quran 9:29

...no, probably grasping at straws on that one.

@Simple_Person

...ITS A TRAP!!

https://youtu.be/3cRnc4FnPhA
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Umm♥Layth
03-21-2017, 06:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Gotta give it to the sisters for answering a question intended for the brothers ;D jazakum allahu khair for your replies nonetheless.




Would you feel the same about a sister approaching you?
If my abaya was tucked in my pants (it happens!), or my button was down, or something that was obviously unintentional, then no, I would not mind if a sister told me something.

If it was a lecture about how my clothing isn't enough or too much, I would take it easily from an aunty, but a woman my age, I would probably be a bit bothered and just shrug it off.
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Umm♥Layth
03-21-2017, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
The think what would come to my mind if some brother comes to correct my dressing is... "so he didn´t lower his gaze then but stared at me".

Should I then correct him that staring isn´t allowed either? :giggling:
I would!! looooool and I'll let him know I'm telling my husband too. :o
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Serinity
03-21-2017, 06:46 PM
:salam:

I know this is not an excuse to stare, but women, compared to men, have it easier to lower their gaze. afaik. In that men have it harder to control.

I am just saying that.. It easy for the sisters to say "well, just look away, we both have eyes, we can just look away, easy" sometimes, it isn't that easy. Men are different from women, in the sense that women are stronger in this regard, than men.

I am not saying it is impossible for men, or anything, but one of our biggest weaknesses is women.

So I'd say, women, covering up is helping us men too.

Allahu alam.
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Umm♥Layth
03-21-2017, 06:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

I know this is not an excuse to stare, but women, compared to men, have it easier to lower their gaze. afaik. In that men have it harder to control.

I am just saying that.. It easy for the sisters to say "well, just look away, we both have eyes, we can just look away, easy" sometimes, it isn't that easy. Men are different from women, in the sense that women are stronger in this regard, than men.

I am not saying it is impossible for men, or anything, but one of our biggest weaknesses is women.

So I'd say, women, covering up is helping us men too.

Allahu alam.
Yes, it helps both men and women.

I'd like to flip the coin though. Do you know how difficult it can be to cover up properly with scorching heat, or humidity, or lots of water on the ground. Not only is it expensive (just yesterday I was at the stores and no simple abaya was less than $60) and also being singled out as a Muslim with our attire.... lots of hardship that many of us endure for the sake of Allah, because he asked us to.

So yes, looking down is difficult and I do think it is unfair for women to compare themselves and say "we both have eyes" as men are very visual, but it is also difficult to cover yet we have some seriously self righteous brothers who blame all of societal illnesses on women and what they wear. Not nice.
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sister herb
03-21-2017, 07:08 PM
I have seen that it might be sweet how sisters correct you; once in my work one sister came to talk with me and asked why I don´t use abaya at work. So I told her I haven´t any. At the next day she returned and gave me abaya and said she has so many in hers wardrobe that I can have one. Plus few hijabs too.

:statisfie
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Simple_Person
03-21-2017, 07:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
Yes, it helps both men and women.

I'd like to flip the coin though. (1) Do you know how difficult it can be to cover up properly with scorching heat, or humidity, or lots of water on the ground. Not only is it expensive (just yesterday I was at the stores and no simple abaya was less than $60) and also being singled out as a Muslim with our attire.... lots of hardship that many of us endure for the sake of Allah, because he asked us to.

(2) So yes, looking down is difficult and I do think it is unfair for women to compare themselves and say "we both have eyes" as men are very visual, but it is also difficult to cover yet we have some seriously self righteous brothers who blame all of societal illnesses on women and what they wear. Not nice.
(1) I have observed that women have less problems with heat when it is warm and are easily freezing when it is just slightly breezing. So basically sub'han'Allah the body of women are created in such a manner that during winter they can wear clothes, while men can withstand cold better. In the summer they can withstand the heat better while men are sweating like crazy :). I ALSO have discovered why it is so important to have clothes to have pockets of air between the cloth and the body. During winter it acts like air that is frozen which is extra isolation and during summer breezes can more easily come with under the clothes and cool down the body. So benefit upon benefit to have loosely fitted clothes.

(2) I agree with you on that. In the Qur'an Allah(swt) FIRST talks about men to lower their gaze. Their is even a logic in this. There are women who dress outrageously but just not even looking at those women, i have no problems at all. In another topic i believe it was @sister herb or you who said that dirty men will always be dirty. Now a days as a Muslim for me it is rather hard as it is very difficult to be outside as everywhere you look are indecent things to see. So i just try to adapt my schedule when to go outside, as there are certain time scoops that the eye of the tornado is active you could say. For example Saturday morning when the shops JUST open almost nobody is outside..they are still sleeping or just waking up. You can go quickly to the shop ..do your shopping and go back home. Evaded much trouble :). Or there are primary roads and those back alley's which nobody walks..also eye of the tornado :). Sleep early and wake up early during the night you can take a walk..it is so calm outside (also eye of the tornado). Or even during summers around 05:00 o'clock ..it is very nice and cool outside. Blessed moments.

When you point at something or somebody for the problems, know three fingers are pointing back at you :) (directed at those people who always want to blame women for the problems).
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noraina
03-21-2017, 07:23 PM
Wa alaykum assalam,

I am a sister, but....:D

If a man was my mahram, my father, brother, ect, then I would definitely accept and take into account what they said about the way I dressed - it is their 'protective jealousy' towards the women of their family and this is a wonderful thing.

If he wasn't a mahram, then absolutely NO. I think it's very inappropriate for man to comment on an unrelated female's clothes or way of dressing, I could never even imagine myself saying to a brother his clothes are too tight or his beard is too short or whatever, lol. There is the commandment to give advice when one sees something wrong, but this shouldn't mean one compromises the regulations concerning gender interaction either.

However if it was a sister who gently advised me, I'd be more than happy to take what she says into account. Like sister herb, when I began wearing the hijab I hadn't ever heard of pins and the scarf was slipping all over my head. This wonderful sister I didn't even know handed me a pin from her own hijab, may Allah bless her.
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Umm♥Layth
03-21-2017, 07:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
(1) I have observed that women have less problems with heat when it is warm and are easily freezing when it is just slightly breezing. So basically sub'han'Allah the body of women are created in such a manner that during winter they can wear clothes, while men can withstand cold better. In the summer they can withstand the heat better while men are sweating like crazy :).
I dunno what kind of women you are around but you've never been in the women's section of the masjid in the middle of summer....spice galore LOL! ;D I personally sweat tons and it was not uncommon to come home with my full back wet from 110F weather outside after running a few errands. I do like the sauna type feeling so I don't mind the heat itself, but with an abaya or layers of clothing, it can be very tough. Nice abayas are so pricey in western countries. My husband was totally shocked when I took him shopping with me yesterday lol. A nice, breathable abaya for the summer will run you at least $100. You can get synthetic fabric ones for $60.
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M.I.A.
03-21-2017, 07:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
(1) I have observed that women have less problems with heat when it is warm and are easily freezing when it is just slightly breezing. So basically sub'han'Allah the body of women are created in such a manner that during winter they can wear clothes, while men can withstand cold better. In the summer they can withstand the heat better while men are sweating like crazy :). I ALSO have discovered why it is so important to have clothes to have pockets of air between the cloth and the body. During winter it acts like air that is frozen which is extra isolation and during summer breezes can more easily come with under the clothes and cool down the body. So benefit upon benefit to have loosely fitted clothes.

(2) I agree with you on that. In the Qur'an Allah(swt) FIRST talks about men to lower their gaze. Their is even a logic in this. There are women who dress outrageously but just not even looking at those women, i have no problems at all. In another topic i believe it was @sister herb or you who said that dirty men will always be dirty. Now a days as a Muslim for me it is rather hard as it is very difficult to be outside as everywhere you look are indecent things to see. So i just try to adapt my schedule when to go outside, as there are certain time scoops that the eye of the tornado is active you could say. For example Saturday morning when the shops JUST open almost nobody is outside..they are still sleeping or just waking up. You can go quickly to the shop ..do your shopping and go back home. Evaded much trouble :). Or there are primary roads and those back alley's which nobody walks..also eye of the tornado :). Sleep early and wake up early during the night you can take a walk..it is so calm outside (also eye of the tornado). Or even during summers around 05:00 o'clock ..it is very nice and cool outside. Blessed moments.

When you point at something or somebody for the problems, know three fingers are pointing back at you :) (directed at those people who always want to blame women for the problems).
im at a stage where i feel that even if i farted in the eye of the tornado someone would point it out..

its just a phase god willing.

also learned not to fart so there's a plus..

people keep farting so its a minus.
..
..
the opposition is great.
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Simple_Person
03-21-2017, 08:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
I dunno what kind of women you are around but you've never been in the women's section of the masjid in the middle of summer....spice galore LOL! ;D I personally sweat tons and it was not uncommon to come home with my full back wet from 110F weather outside after running a few errands. I do like the sauna type feeling so I don't mind the heat itself, but with an abaya or layers of clothing, it can be very tough. Nice abayas are so pricey in western countries. My husband was totally shocked when I took him shopping with me yesterday lol. A nice, breathable abaya for the summer will run you at least $100. You can get synthetic fabric ones for $60.
I must say some masjid are kind of cheap. They gather money for electricity, water and such during Ramadan and khutbahs as often the masjid it self is already bought so no rent. Yet they do not turn on airco and such. We must spend money, but don't waste money. This basic principle I think often we Muslims don't understand. Allah has provided the money but it is not spent went it should be.

People who are like that often will also lose that money one way or the other if they just keep saving while often desiring to buy something necessary but still don't do it. If you do not use it Allah (swt) will take it away from us and give it to somebody who does use it. I have seen this happen with a friend of mine. He always said he wanted to buy this and that but still did not do it. He asked me for advice what TV was a good TV but still did not buy it. One day somebody broke in to his house during the day when he was away and stole all of his money.

BTW, why don't you buy them online for a other country? ..or just a weekend to the Middle East where those abaya I ASSUME are way more cheaper.
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noraina
03-21-2017, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
I dunno what kind of women you are around but you've never been in the women's section of the masjid in the middle of summer....spice galore LOL! ;D I personally sweat tons and it was not uncommon to come home with my full back wet from 110F weather outside after running a few errands. I do like the sauna type feeling so I don't mind the heat itself, but with an abaya or layers of clothing, it can be very tough. Nice abayas are so pricey in western countries. My husband was totally shocked when I took him shopping with me yesterday lol. A nice, breathable abaya for the summer will run you at least $100. You can get synthetic fabric ones for $60.
Last summer the temperatures were running high and I felt like I was melting. It was also Ramadan around that time...I was seriously considering becoming a nocturnal creature, hiding away from the sunlight.

I hear you though, sadly abayas don't grow on trees. I have a couple made up of several layers of chiffon, they ain't cheap but they are extremely modest and 'flowy' but they are also very comfortable during the summer alhamdulillah.
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*charisma*
03-22-2017, 12:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Are you serious? Look at the topic name + your first comment.

Topic name: do brothers tell sisters to cover up?
Your first comment: So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?

There are sisters who are wearing hijab, but have such tight pants you would think if she would bend, her pants would be torn =_=!. This is my argument about. If a sister is properly covered with abaya for example but hijab is forgotten at some part or put on wrong, it is not my job to correct her. For me if i even see in the distance that a woman is sitting there, i already look down till i pass her by.

While you out of the blue has suddenly made it as if this topic was about a descent muslimah that just forget to cover some part of her hair =_=!. If this whole topic is about that what you just mentioned, i would like i said already have walked by her not even looking at her. I would already be SUPER satisfied that she respects her body and has shame to cover up properly but just forget some piece of hair sticking out. Islam is not about STRICT ruling and we all make mistakes and she must have forgotten about covering that part of her hair. People doing things out of ignorance are not looked down at you know. In the Middle East the ALL know they MUST cover their hair. But this stupid fashion from Iran with leaving out some part of their hair because it has become fashion among women =_=!. These women i would not even speak to, as they KNOW they are not allowed to do that, so it is not out of ignorance. As own family members do that. So what do i say about as they see me as if i am a extremist if i would bring up such a thing. Well ALHAMDULILLAH that every person is judged for their own deeds and according to their knowledge.

So i would say read your own topic first and than read my comment. OR change your topic name and first comment and i will in'sha'Allah also remove my comment..as it will also become off topic.
No your answer was raw, so I'll leave it. I was just trying to see your thought process. It seems that no matter what degree a woman is wearing or not wearing the hijaab properly, you still will not say anything to her, but you will be left with a certain judgement about her based on how she is dressed, even without knowing her? Am I assuming correctly here?
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Simple_Person
03-22-2017, 04:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
No your answer was raw, so I'll leave it. I was just trying to see your thought process. It seems that no matter what degree a woman is wearing or not wearing the hijaab properly, you still will not say anything to her, but you will be left with a certain judgement about her based on how she is dressed, even without knowing her? Am I assuming correctly here?
When a sister is dressed appropriately but just made a mistake regarding her hijab ALHAMDULILLAH to that. Because she just made a mistake unknowingly. However this sister is aware of what Allah at least expects from her. Also not my place to correct her as I might further make her uncomfortable a stranger coming towards her. I have also observed that when you (men) look at somebody in this case pious women they immidiatly are alert and easily scared compared to the women where the fitrah is messed up. With the women when their fitrah is messed up they like your stare if you as a man yourself are handsome. They only are grossed out you looking at them when you yourself are not handsome.

Try this method even with ducks...yes ducks. Walk past them without looking and they will stay at their spot and also experiment with them by just walking past them as you have done earlier but keep looking at them they get scared and get away from you while you did not even approach them just kept walking.

The other sister with the tight pants well this sister knows for bigger part what is going on. I mean I am a guy and know back in the past when I past a group of girls or women and they were checking me out I felt grossed about it they checking me out. These days i on purpose walk to the other side of the street. A woman who doesn't have that feeling while wearing such tight pants will for sure NOT listen to a strangers advice. As she knows better than me and has experience more often than me the stares of men and lustsffull eyes of theirs yet "likes" their nasty behavior. Or else she would have covered it up but the fitrah(human nature) has gone messed up.

So if you are alluding to this than my answer is yes.
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talibilm
03-22-2017, 07:30 AM
:sl:

I tell to my daughters if their dupatta or hijab for breasts are not to the awrah in front of my grown up Son or me. But the head can be uncovered ONLY in front of us, The maghrams

Once I walked to the masjid in a muslim locality (in India) a grown up girl (to my height) was obstructing my path with her game and I did say ( by not looking at her ) that Muslim women atleast respect the dignity of being Locality of Muslims by wearing a hijab since it was just few meters from masjid .

I think i did right adjoining virtue & forbidding evil, Allahu aalam.
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*charisma*
03-22-2017, 11:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
The think what would come to my mind if some brother comes to correct my dressing is... "so he didn´t lower his gaze then but stared at me".

Should I then correct him that staring isn´t allowed either?
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
A better question would be, is it your place to tell her anything as a non mahram?

I've never even seen a sheikh or imam at the masjid correct a sister who walks in with inappropriate attire.

My husband won't simply tell me, if he sees my hijab loose or my clothes too snug, he'll fix it for me LOL. My dad always commented on my attire growing up and my family isn't Muslim. That's being a true guardian of women, imo.

I would not welcome a strange man telling me how to dress, he shouldn't even be looking at me, let alone talking to me, but if it is a mahram male, I will consider and in most cases take action .
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
If he wasn't a mahram, then absolutely NO. I think it's very inappropriate for man to comment on an unrelated female's clothes or way of dressing, I could never even imagine myself saying to a brother his clothes are too tight or his beard is too short or whatever, lol. There is the commandment to give advice when one sees something wrong, but this shouldn't mean one compromises the regulations concerning gender interaction either.
What would you sisters actually do though if a man did approach you about your hijaab, whether it be to notify you that something is showing or to advise etc. Do you respond to him, do you ignore him..what?

Also, say a nonMuslim man approached you, and asked you a question about hijaab. Would it make any difference in how you feel?? Would you answer him?
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Simple_Person
03-22-2017, 11:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
What would you sisters actually do though if a man did approach you about your hijaab, whether it be to notify you that something is showing or to advise etc. Do you respond to him, do you ignore him..what?

Also, say a nonMuslim man approached you, and asked you a question about hijaab. Would it make any difference in how you feel?? Would you answer him?
Their handbags are full of pepper spray bottles :Emoji7::Emoji7::Emoji7:
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sister herb
03-22-2017, 12:09 PM
I am not sure what to do if some brother really come to give some advice as it never has happened. Brothers here greet me on the streets with their salam as they know me - because of my earlier work as councelor of immigrants and refugees but they are always very polite.

And then are those non-Muslim men whose want to ask or say something about hijab... they usually only want to mock me. As br Simple_Person just said... yep, I have a handbag with it´s "feminine secrets".

;)
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Simple_Person
03-22-2017, 12:25 PM
As the sister said.."feminine secrets" carried under the abaya.

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aaj
03-22-2017, 01:20 PM
I'll say this, most hijabis will be more welcoming of non muslim telling them then a muslim brother. There are hijabis who are best friends with non-muslim males and avoid muslim brothers like the plague.
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Simple_Person
03-22-2017, 01:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
I'll say this, most hijabis will be more welcoming of non muslim telling them then a muslim brother. There are hijabis who are best friends with non-muslim males and avoid muslim brothers like the plague.
This i also do wonder why.

(Offtopic). Among the Kurds for example, if a male Kurd wants to go ask the family to marry the daughter, they ask A LOT of gold as dowry. However if they marry off the daughter to a non-Kurd..suddenly all this gold is not asked..=_=!. That is why i have given up on Kurdish women to marry. Too much culture and financial hardship.
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Scimitar
03-22-2017, 01:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum


So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?
It would be tough considering that she is not my relative AND uncovered.

Scimi
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*charisma*
03-22-2017, 01:41 PM
The reason I'm asking all these questions is because I see two HUGE issues here. I wonder if anyone can identify them :D
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Scimitar
03-22-2017, 01:43 PM
Didn't I just identify both? or am I missing something lol

Scimi
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*charisma*
03-22-2017, 01:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Didn't I just identify both? or am I missing something lol

Scimi
Everyone is hovering around it, but no one has pinpointed it exactly.
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 02:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
What would you sisters actually do though if a man did approach you about your hijaab, whether it be to notify you that something is showing or to advise etc. Do you respond to him, do you ignore him..what?

Also, say a nonMuslim man approached you, and asked you a question about hijaab. Would it make any difference in how you feel?? Would you answer him?
If I was walking, I'd keep walking. If he stopped me, I'd acknowledge his comment, then ask him why he was looking at me in the first place. It isn't a non-mahram's place to make such corrections. Also, from what I can see here, the correction won't even be from a place of caring and compassion, but a self righteous women-are-the-source-of-all-evil-because-I-misunderstand-my-religion-and-the-piece-of-skin-showing-is-damnation-for-all-men, place. Thanks, but no thanks.
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Indefinable
03-22-2017, 02:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum


So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?
A year ago, I had a Shaykh tell me not to wear rings in public. And I took his advice.

Alhamdulillaah.

I've seen a lot of young sisters dress inappropriately, however, when one tries to give them naseeha it is rejected with venom.

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Scimitar
03-22-2017, 02:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Everyone is hovering around it, but no one has pinpointed it exactly.
Spill it :D

Scimi
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aaj
03-22-2017, 02:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
If I was walking, I'd keep walking. If he stopped me, I'd acknowledge his comment, then ask him why he was looking at me in the first place. It isn't a non-mahram's place to make such corrections. Also, from what I can see here, the correction won't even be from a place of caring and compassion, but a self righteous women-are-the-source-of-all-evil-because-I-misunderstand-my-religion-and-the-piece-of-skin-showing-is-damnation-for-all-men, place. Thanks, but no thanks.
Perhaps it's your perception/assumption that those advising you are of the mindset of 'holy then thou' when someone may actually be genuine about it. I rather a woman tell me my fly is open then walk around all day ignorantly.


format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
The reason I'm asking all these questions is because I see two HUGE issues here. I wonder if anyone can identify them

The manner of the men approaching and the receptiveness of the women to take advice ?
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 02:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
Perhaps it's your perception/assumption that those advising you are of the mindset of 'holy then thou' when someone may actually be genuine about it. I rather a woman tell me my fly is open then walk around all day ignorantly.
Why would a woman be looking at your fly though, you see?

It isn't my perception, it seems to be a common theme. I'm not saying I see all males this way, for example, if a sheikh that knew me well corrected me, I'd take it. I just don't find it necessary for a stranger to correct me about my clothing, that's why I have mahram men in my life. My husband does a very good job at making sure ladies in the house leave dressed properly, Alhamdullilah.

Usually, women watch out for each other in the "your fly is open, skirt is in your pants, blouse button is open" department. I would tell a sister if something was off and it was clearly accidental. I would not correct her if she was clearly dressed a certain way out of choice. Tight jeans with a t-shirt and hijab is a purposeful. She should have family members who can talk to her about that, not my place. If she was a young girl I was mentoring, then sure, I'd try and help out.

It will depend on the situation really, it isn't all the same. But no men telling me how to dress, even if my skirt was in my pants! lol
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aaj
03-22-2017, 02:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth

It will depend on the situation really, it isn't all the same. But no men telling me how to dress, even if my skirt was in my pants! lol
but that's the thing though. Going back to the fly being open and skirt in your pants example. yes, your men check you and let you go out, about your business. But they are not tied to the hip and checking everything is in order. Would you rather go the whole day with your skirt in your pants then someone point it out?

I would like to think rather that I would take advice even from the shaytan if it is of benefit to me.

This kind of reminds me of one of the signs of the Hour where "salam" would be given to only those whom you know.
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
but that's the thing though. Going back to the fly being open and skirt in your pants example. yes, your men check you and let you go out, about your business. But they are not tied to the hip and checking everything is in order. Would you rather go the whole day with your skirt in your pants then someone point it out?

I would like to think rather that I would take advice even from the shaytan if it is of benefit to me.

This kind of reminds me of one of the signs of the Hour where "salam" would be given to only those whom you know.
I see where you are coming from. I guess I can't really relate because I don't go out alone. I either have a kid with me or my husband+kids, or my brothers or my dad so somebody is always there. I'd feel waaaaay too shy to tell a man his fly is open. I'd feel bad for him, but I wouldn't say anything. So, I just don't know lol.
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Indefinable
03-22-2017, 02:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum


So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?
Just curious - why brothers only?

Similarly - if sisters see other sisters dressed inappropriately - should they speak out?

How can we enjoin the good and forbid the evil, unless we advise others?
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sister herb
03-22-2017, 03:00 PM
There are two things: listen advices and allow non-mahram men talk to you (and maybe also talk to them).

It´s not good behavior if some man wants only helps her with kindly advice and she immediately hits him with hers handbag. If sister wants to avoid any contacts to non-mahrams to the last point, she has to know where´s the limit if someone comes to give advice or use giving advice as an excuse for taking contact to her. Not all brothers are sincere even their action might look like.
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aaj
03-22-2017, 03:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
I see where you are coming from. I guess I can't really relate because I don't go out alone. I either have a kid with me or my husband+kids, or my brothers or my dad so somebody is always there. I'd feel waaaaay too shy to tell a man his fly is open. I'd feel bad for him, but I wouldn't say anything. So, I just don't know lol.
I do understand about the shy part, it would be embarrassing for both. I would say it depends on how strong is your urge/intention to tell the other. Reminds me of one time i told this older sister about eating at mcDonalds. I was a young teen in college, first year, and she was in my class. I saw her eating McDonald in class and it was on more than one occasion. After a few days I finally built up the courage to talk to her after class. My assumption was that perhaps she doesn't know it's not halal meat. So i approached her outside of class after class and told her about it not being halal. She said thanks and left. Little did I know at that time that the arabs believe you can eat meat of the people of the book and so they say 'bismillah' and eat it all that stuff. Her son and i became really good friends at the masjid later on and she even started talking to me in arabic one time, thinking i'm also an arab. lol

Another story about being shy. I was watching this other teacher's class of HS students taking a test while she had to step out to another class. As I paced around the class, I noticed one girl sitting in the front had very low pants and thus was exposing her bottom, especially the boys sitting behind her. I wrote a quick note on a piece of paper telling her to pull her pants up as she her bottom is being exposed to others. Towards the end of the test i slowly passed it to her as i walked by. She quickly pulled her pants up.

So out of genuine concern for others, you could inform them in more than one way. Two things are important in this though, the intention and how you deliver your message and how receptive is the person towards it.
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 03:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Indefinable
Just curious - why brothers only?

Similarly - if sisters see other sisters dressed inappropriately - should they speak out?

How can we enjoin the good and forbid the evil, unless we advise others?
You start in your own home. It is not unnatural to feel apprehensive and even unwelcoming towards strangers, so don't expect a stranger to listen to you.

When people want dawa and are ready for a change they will seek it. This includes a change of dress.

I have found that people busy addressing the masses, including imams, have alot of work to do at home. You'll see their family doing some questionable things, like the wife posting all family details on facebook for example, eating out at non halal places, daughters wearing fitted clothing, sons having girlfriends....^o)

I'd prefer t o make sure my daughters understand the meaning of hijab and why we wear it, and place my energy in my household, than to go around correcting others. That's the best way to prevent evil, imo.
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 03:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
I do understand about the shy part, it would be embarrassing for both. I would say it depends on how strong is your urge/intention to tell the other. Reminds me of one time i told this older sister about eating at mcDonalds. I was a young teen in college, first year, and she was in my class. I saw her eating McDonald in class and it was on more than one occasion. After a few days I finally built up the courage to talk to her after class. My assumption was that perhaps she doesn't know it's not halal meat. So i approached her outside of class after class and told her about it not being halal. She said thanks and left. Little did I know at that time that the arabs believe you can eat meat of the people of the book and so they say 'bismillah' and eat it all that stuff. Her son and i became really good friends at the masjid later on and she even started talking to me in arabic one time, thinking i'm also an arab. lol

Another story about being shy. I was watching this other teacher's class of HS students taking a test while she had to step out to another class. As I paced around the class, I noticed one girl sitting in the front had very low pants and thus was exposing her bottom, especially the boys sitting behind her. I wrote a quick note on a piece of paper telling her to pull her pants up as she her bottom is being exposed to others. Towards the end of the test i slowly passed it to her as i walked by. She quickly pulled her pants up.

So out of genuine concern for others, you could inform them in more than one way. Two things are important in this though, the intention and how you deliver your message and how receptive is the person towards it.
The note thing is a clever idea bro, good one! I would accept something like that.

LOL @ the McDonald's thing. I've been there, done that. It blows my mind how they don't actually check to see how the animals are slaughtered. Real people of the book actually slaughter their animals in a smilar way that Muslims do. Companies like keystone (One of the McDonald's suppliers) most definitely does not slaughter like people of the book do. *sigh*
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aaj
03-22-2017, 03:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
The note thing is a clever idea bro, good one! I would accept something like that.
So you are receptive to advice, just depends on the delivery :)
LOL @ the McDonald's thing. I've been there, done that. It blows my mind how they don't actually check to see how the animals are slaughtered. Real people of the book actually slaughter their animals in a smilar way that Muslims do. Companies like keystone (One of the McDonald's suppliers) most definitely does not slaughter like people of the book do. *sigh*
Not just that, you don't even know if an agnostic/atheist/satanist/hindu/etc is working in that slaughter house rather then a christian let alone a practicing Christian who actually says "in the name of the Lord" before slaughtering.
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Simple_Person
03-22-2017, 03:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
The note thing is a clever idea bro, good one! I would accept something like that.

LOL @ the McDonald's thing. I've been there, done that. It blows my mind how they don't actually check to see how the animals are slaughtered. Real people of the book actually slaughter their animals in a smilar way that Muslims do. Companies like keystone (One of the McDonald's suppliers) most definitely does not slaughter like people of the book do. *sigh*
To be honest about slaughtering, i do believe Jews do it correctly, however Christians not. I had a male house mate from Eritrea and was a practicing Orthodox Christian. He bought meat at the grocery store but did not eat halal meat that i bought at the Islamic slaughtering house. So i asked him a few questions, it turned out that he did not eat halal meat because it was slaughtered in Allah's name, although he did not answer my question about the slaughtering method here in the west..which is not slaughtered in anybody's name. However i also found out that that he said that back home they slaughter animals in the name of Jesus(as). That was a very big surprise to me. i was careful before with meat slaughtered by Christians i am now even in red-alert phase. So better not eat meat from them to be on the safe side.
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 03:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
So you are receptive to advice, just depends on the delivery :)
Yes, I suppose so lol.
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 03:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
To be honest about slaughtering, i do believe Jews do it correctly, however Christians not. I had a male house mate from Eritrea and was a practicing Orthodox Christian. He bought meat at the grocery store but did not eat halal meat that i bought at the Islamic slaughtering house. So i asked him a few questions, it turned out that he did not eat halal meat because it was slaughtered in Allah's name, although he did not answer my question about the slaughtering method here in the west..which is not slaughtered in anybody's name. However i also found out that that he said that back home they slaughter animals in the name of Jesus(as). That was a very big surprise to me. i was careful before with meat slaughtered by Christians i am now even in red-alert phase. So better not eat meat from them to be on the safe side.
Not necessarily true. We get our chickens from a Christian (Mennonite) slaughter house and we are very strict on proper slaughter method and humane raising of animals. You have to get to know your slaughter house and your farmers. Even at halal meat shops, they sell questionable things like machine slaughtered meats and such. I used to make the butcher show me the boxes and tags or all the meats I would buy and go home and phone them myself to ask questions(before I moved to the middle of nowhere). You should be on alert no matter where you buy your meat. Some Christians don't care about their food source, some do. Some Muslims don't care about their food source, some do. Same for Jews.
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*charisma*
03-22-2017, 05:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Indefinable
I've seen a lot of young sisters dress inappropriately, however, when one tries to give them naseeha it is rejected with venom.
YES!

format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
The manner of the men approaching and the receptiveness of the women to take advice ?
Ding! ding! ding!

It is perplexing to me that sisters have such a problem with brothers advising them or pointing something out to them, subhanallah.
I also find it so disheartening that brothers react to that and do not say anything at all, and in retaliation, see sisters in a very negative way as if the way they dress is purposely done to seduce men. There is a terrible assumption from both sides.


The most hated speech to Allaah is when a man says to another man, ‘Fear Allaah!’ and he replies, ‘Worry about your own self!’ “

It was reported by Al-Asbahaanee in At-Targheeb (739), and Al-Albaanee authenticated it in Silsilatul-Ahaadeethis-Saheehah (2598).
I feel that unfortunately this is the attitude adopted by muslims when it comes to advising one another.

Some sisters need to stop acting like brothers are supposed to walk around without eyes. If your hijaab slips, if your arms are showing, if you're wearing tight clothing, etc. even I as a woman who is not even looking at other women will easily notice the way other women are dressed. So not every man is out there to seek lustful stares at you or is probably even staring.

And bros, while I understand sisters can be venemous as described :D, you can be creative with letting them know something has gone awry with their attire. One ways is note passing as described above. What are some other ways that sisters won't find threatening or odd? Can we brainstorm about this for a bit. Mashallah I am in awe at the brothers who actually do say something though, jazakum allahu khair. I'll share some experiences later inshallah.
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 05:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

Some sisters need to stop acting like brothers are supposed to walk around without eyes. If your hijaab slips, if your arms are showing, if you're wearing tight clothing, etc. even I as a woman who is not even looking at other women will easily notice the way other women are dressed. So not every man is out there to seek lustful stares at you or is probably even staring.
It doesn't matter if the stare is lustful or not. I don't personally appreciate a strange man approaching me for anything really, my clothing is no exception. If I get stopped for directions or something by a man (muslim or not!) I get very uncomfortable and do my best to end the conversation asap. I know for sure I'm not alone on this. It isn't appropriate. Even when I wasn't Muslim, in my culture, men stick with men and women stick with women, generally.

Maybe perspectives are different as we are all raised differently, but I don't see why it is perplexing that women are not welcoming men's advice. More often than not, men have female relatives around who can convey the message. That's more acceptable and I'm sure better welcomed. As I stated before, those who are interested in dawa generally look for it. I've sat in plenty of male led dawa and lectures who address women's issues, I'm perfectly okay with that.

So, what I can see from this discussion is that nothing should be blanketed. Men are not all out to lust over women, and women who don't want advice from men are not venomous and out to seduce men. lol. There's common courtesy and there's methods of delivering information if it is warranted. The note thing that brother Aaj mentioned is a good way, imo.

Also, it needs to be considered that when women purposely wear tight fitting clothes, they are AWARE of what they are doing. They have either convinced themselves it is permissible, or they don't care. Does this warrant a stranger's advice?. Is it the clothing that needs to be addressed or their relationship with Allah? I think the latter, as the dress is always affected by the person's imaan.
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Serinity
03-22-2017, 06:56 PM
There are two things:

A) The assumption from women that men are lusting over women 24/7 and out to hunt them down.

B) The assumption from men that all women who wear indecently are out there to seduce men.

C) The assumption that it is as easy for women as it is for men to lower their gaze. (i.e. some women say "just lower your gaze")

There are terrible ignorant assumptions from both sides. HOWEVER, it does not change the consequences of it.

BTW, WE Men do NOT intentionally (at least me) stare at women. There are those that do, but all men, for the most part, find women beautiful.

So in other words...

We should, both men and women, try to UNDERSTAND the other, without justifying our ownselves, when we do wrong.

But then, again, we as Muslims, are commanded to forbid evil and enjoin good. So how would one approach a sister about their improperly worn Hijab?

WHAT does Islam say????

Allahu alam.
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sister herb
03-22-2017, 07:06 PM
I am curious about how many of brothers whose has took part to this discussion (or read this only) have adviced unknown sisters about their dressing? If yes, how you have done it or if not, what has been the reasons?
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AbdurRahman.
03-22-2017, 07:55 PM
it's not worth telling them directly like that as they'd probably just get annoyed and be even more rebellious if we 'critisize them' like that so next time we might see them dressing even worse! :o
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*charisma*
03-22-2017, 07:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
It doesn't matter if the stare is lustful or not. I don't personally appreciate a strange man approaching me for anything really, my clothing is no exception. If I get stopped for directions or something by a man (muslim or not!) I get very uncomfortable and do my best to end the conversation asap. I know for sure I'm not alone on this. It isn't appropriate. Even when I wasn't Muslim, in my culture, men stick with men and women stick with women, generally.

Maybe perspectives are different as we are all raised differently, but I don't see why it is perplexing that women are not welcoming men's advice. More often than not, men have female relatives around who can convey the message. That's more acceptable and I'm sure better welcomed. As I stated before, those who are interested in dawa generally look for it. I've sat in plenty of male led dawa and lectures who address women's issues, I'm perfectly okay with that.

So, what I can see from this discussion is that nothing should be blanketed. Men are not all out to lust over women, and women who don't want advice from men are not venomous and out to seduce men. lol. There's common courtesy and there's methods of delivering information if it is warranted. The note thing that brother Aaj mentioned is a good way, imo.

Also, it needs to be considered that when women purposely wear tight fitting clothes, they are AWARE of what they are doing. They have either convinced themselves it is permissible, or they don't care. Does this warrant a stranger's advice?. Is it the clothing that needs to be addressed or their relationship with Allah? I think the latter, as the dress is always affected by the person's imaan.
I respectfully disagree. I understand that you have a general discomfort with men, that's ok. That's you. I personally don't have a problem with anyone who seeks pleasing Allah. As someone who wears hijaab properly for the intention of pleasing Allah, if my attire is not proper (eg. my hair is sticking out in the back, or my chest is bare) and a brother spots it, I would much rather prefer that he lets me know in that instant than for me to walk around and have a hundred people see me this way. I might be embarrassed for a bit that it was a brother who told me, but why should that feeling overpower what is fardh?

As you can see from the replies, most brothers don't even approach sisters. They're saying "it's not my place to do so" or "I don't want to cause her discomfort" so I'm guessing the small percentage of brothers that do have the courage to say something do NOT do it out of ill intentions, nor can I see how it would be that way.

Now when it comes to advising a sister to wear hijaab properly, and I'm speaking about someone who is wearing tight clothing or her arms are barren, we also should not always assume these girls know what they are doing. I've come across girls who think adorning the eyes with eyeliner is ok because kohl is sunnah. Some think wearing tight clothing is ok as long as the shirt is long enough to cover her front and behind. Some girls think its ok to cover your entire face with make up because "only allah can judge me" or because they are new and all the hijaabis these days on youtube and social media have tutorials on it so it's seen as the "norm." While mashallah we have a lot of information, we have just as much misinformation. You make the assumption that dawah is sought after so no one should put in the effort to help or give advice. That's ill advice. It's not easy to sincerely advise strangers, so kudos to those who have that courage and love for their brethren.
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*charisma*
03-22-2017, 07:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
It doesn't matter if the stare is lustful or not. I don't personally appreciate a strange man approaching me for anything really, my clothing is no exception. If I get stopped for directions or something by a man (muslim or not!) I get very uncomfortable and do my best to end the conversation asap. I know for sure I'm not alone on this. It isn't appropriate. Even when I wasn't Muslim, in my culture, men stick with men and women stick with women, generally.

Maybe perspectives are different as we are all raised differently, but I don't see why it is perplexing that women are not welcoming men's advice. More often than not, men have female relatives around who can convey the message. That's more acceptable and I'm sure better welcomed. As I stated before, those who are interested in dawa generally look for it. I've sat in plenty of male led dawa and lectures who address women's issues, I'm perfectly okay with that.

So, what I can see from this discussion is that nothing should be blanketed. Men are not all out to lust over women, and women who don't want advice from men are not venomous and out to seduce men. lol. There's common courtesy and there's methods of delivering information if it is warranted. The note thing that brother Aaj mentioned is a good way, imo.

Also, it needs to be considered that when women purposely wear tight fitting clothes, they are AWARE of what they are doing. They have either convinced themselves it is permissible, or they don't care. Does this warrant a stranger's advice?. Is it the clothing that needs to be addressed or their relationship with Allah? I think the latter, as the dress is always affected by the person's imaan.
I respectfully disagree. I understand that you have a general discomfort with men, that's ok. That's you. I personally don't have a problem with anyone who seeks pleasing Allah. As someone who wears hijaab properly for the intention of pleasing Allah, if my attire is not proper (eg. my hair is sticking out in the back, or my chest is bare) and a brother spots it, I would much rather prefer that he lets me know in that instant than for me to walk around and have a hundred people see me this way. I might be embarrassed for a bit that it was a brother who told me, but why should that feeling overpower what is fardh?

As you can see from the replies, most brothers don't even approach sisters. They're saying "it's not my place to do so" or "I don't want to cause her discomfort" so I'm guessing the small percentage of brothers that do have the courage to say something do NOT do it out of ill intentions, nor can I see how it would be that way.

Now when it comes to advising a sister to wear hijaab properly, and I'm speaking about someone who is wearing tight clothing or her arms are barren, we also should not always assume these girls know what they are doing. I've come across girls who think adorning the eyes with eyeliner is ok because kohl is sunnah. Some think wearing tight clothing is ok as long as the shirt is long enough to cover her front and behind. Some girls think its ok to cover your entire face with make up because "only allah can judge me" or because they are new and all the hijaabis these days on youtube and social media have tutorials on it so it's seen as the "norm." While mashallah we have a lot of information, we have just as much misinformation. You make the assumption that dawah is sought after so no one should put in the effort to help or give advice. That's ill advice. It's not easy to sincerely advise strangers, so kudos to those who have that courage and love for their brethren.
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sister herb
03-22-2017, 08:20 PM
^ So you mean that it´s a lesser bad if a brother correts some sister than let her walk around without proper dressing. If that would happens, I might just find a ladies room and a mirror and check my dressing (hijab or some other cloth). But I wouldn´t encourage that brother to continue discussion of course.

(And no, I wouldn´t use my handbag. :embarrass )
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*charisma*
03-22-2017, 08:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
^ So you mean that it´s a lesser bad if a brother correts some sister than let her walk around without proper dressing. If that would happens, I might just find a ladies room and a mirror and check my dressing (hijab or some other cloth). But I wouldn´t encourage that brother to continue discussion of course.

(And no, I wouldn´t use my handbag. :embarrass )
Yes, I would personally prefer that. :D And I agree. I don't think a full course discussion should happen in that type of incident, but rather that he kindly brings it to my attention and continues on his way, which is what I think most would do anyways.

Sometimes we just don't notice these things until we get home and we think "omg have I been walking like this ALL day?" ;D

One time my chest was exposed a bit and I had absolutely no idea. I was actually waiting for a ride, so I was outside by myself. A brother walked past me and without even looking at me said something that caught my attention. I don't remember what he said exactly, but I looked down and saw that my skin was showing so I covered myself. I felt very grateful that he said something because people were walking past me left and right and no one had said anything. I feel really proud that there are muslim brothers (and sisters) who watch out for sisters like that.
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Umm♥Layth
03-22-2017, 09:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
I respectfully disagree. I understand that you have a general discomfort with men, that's ok. That's you. I personally don't have a problem with anyone who seeks pleasing Allah.
So I guess it is personal then? You are okay with men approaching you, I'm not and many women are not. It doesn't make us wrong and there's many ways to care for brothers and sister and try to please Allah.

As you can see from the replies, most brothers don't even approach sisters. They're saying "it's not my place to do so" or "I don't want to cause her discomfort" so I'm guessing the small percentage of brothers that do have the courage to say something do NOT do it out of ill intentions, nor can I see how it would be that way.
I've never said all men do it out of ill intentions :) As you said, most men don't do it and that's because naturally men are not inclined to try and correct women that are not theirs to correct . I hope that makes sense. I don't find it courageous if a man approached me to correct my attire, I find it on the offensive side, even if the brother is a nice guy.

we also should not always assume these girls know what they are doing.
Most of them do though. Sure, there are always exceptions, but that isn't the norm. When it is a new muslim woman, then she probably doesn't know and in most of those cases they are looking for guidance. When its a young girl, she may be under the wrong impression, correct, but they have mothers... I remember during ramadan once, there was a girl who would unbutton her abaya, take off her hijab and put on red hot lipstick while her parents were in tarawee prayer :heated: and she's prance around where the boys were hanging out.

I personally went through a period of wearing fitted mini dresses with a long black flowy skirt and a long black cardigan and headscarf. I knew it wasn't correct, but I justified it and wore it anyway. Any brother who has courted a woman for marriage and has addressed hijab can tell you that they get defensive right away.

So, I respectfully disagree with assuming women don't know. It's quite easy to tell really, if you hang around the masjid enough and if you are familiar with the community :)
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Scimitar
03-23-2017, 03:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
I am curious about how many of brothers whose has took part to this discussion (or read this only) have adviced unknown sisters about their dressing? If yes, how you have done it or if not, what has been the reasons?
:hmm:

speaking from experience, it's better to just walk on! Although there was this one time the sister told me "I'm not actually a Muslim?" and yeah, that was the safest version of events :phew

Scimi
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Simple_Person
03-23-2017, 05:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
I respectfully disagree. I understand that you have a general discomfort with men, that's ok. That's you. I personally don't have a problem with anyone who seeks pleasing Allah. As someone who wears hijaab properly for the intention of pleasing Allah, if my attire is not proper (eg. my hair is sticking out in the back, or my chest is bare) and a brother spots it, I would much rather prefer that he lets me know in that instant than for me to walk around and have a hundred people see me this way. I might be embarrassed for a bit that it was a brother who told me, but why should that feeling overpower what is fardh?

As you can see from the replies, most brothers don't even approach sisters. They're saying "it's not my place to do so" or "I don't want to cause her discomfort" so I'm guessing the small percentage of brothers that do have the courage to say something do NOT do it out of ill intentions, nor can I see how it would be that way.

Now when it comes to advising a sister to wear hijaab properly, and I'm speaking about someone who is wearing tight clothing or her arms are barren, we also should not always assume these girls know what they are doing. I've come across girls who think adorning the eyes with eyeliner is ok because kohl is sunnah. Some think wearing tight clothing is ok as long as the shirt is long enough to cover her front and behind. Some girls think its ok to cover your entire face with make up because "only allah can judge me" or because they are new and all the hijaabis these days on youtube and social media have tutorials on it so it's seen as the "norm." While mashallah we have a lot of information, we have just as much misinformation. You make the assumption that dawah is sought after so no one should put in the effort to help or give advice. That's ill advice. It's not easy to sincerely advise strangers, so kudos to those who have that courage and love for their brethren.
When I read this post of yours I immediately remembered the event with Musa (as) and watering of those animals. He looked at those women holding their animals ..so he did not "lower his gaze" but this with a certain intention of seeing something that we can say was injustice.

So I agree on this that I was wrong jazakAllah khairan for this comment of yours and correcting me. Sub'han'Allah I have found even more wisdom in this beyond notifying the sister of something about her clothes that were not done intentionally.

Although about sisters who wear tight clothes is very hard. It isn't a talk of just notifying it. It needs explanation why so she also understands it. If you just in a subtle manner say to her "sister please wear different clothes" or "sister please cover yourself". Such a sister might feel insulted rather than be thankful. One needs to explain a bit more to show her why she has to stop wearing such clothes. Notifying and "changing the mind" are rather big things.
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'abd al-hakeem
03-23-2017, 05:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum
So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
A better question would be, is it your place to tell her anything as a non mahram?
I've never even seen a sheikh or imam at the masjid correct a sister who walks in with inappropriate attire.
I would not welcome a strange man telling me how to dress, he shouldn't even be looking at me, let alone talking to me, but if it is a mahram male, I will consider and in most cases take action :).
as-salaamu aleykum brothers and sisters,

I was taught that unless a woman approachs/greets, it's better manners to wait or respond in kind, or do nothing. e.g. speak when spoken to, greet when greeted or nothing at all. I agree with sister Umm♥Layth.

Four males are responsible for the females in the family, at this point in time I can't recall the 4th but they include Father, brother and husband. If the women in the family are dressed irresponsibly, is it up to any other male in intercede, other than family? Maybe the power of dua is what's best. Make dua for the sister and her family for guidance.

Have we considered the reason for asking for an opinion when we already have the Sunnah and Qur'an to rely on?

"To you be your way..."

Allahu alem.
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Simple_Person
03-23-2017, 06:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'abd al-hakeem
as-salaamu aleykum brothers and sisters,

I was taught that unless a woman approachs/greets, it's better manners to wait or respond in kind, or do nothing. e.g. speak when spoken to, greet when greeted or nothing at all. I agree with sister Umm♥Layth.

Four males are responsible for the females in the family, at this point in time I can't recall the 4th but they include Father, brother and husband. If the women in the family are dressed irresponsibly, is it up to any other male in intercede, other than family? Maybe the power of dua is what's best. Make dua for the sister and her family for guidance.

Have we considered the reason for asking for an opinion when we already have the Sunnah and Qur'an to rely on?

"To you be your way..."

Allahu alem.
Some are divorced no husband..no sons, father died no brothers. I am not saying we should always think like this but mistakes happen and if possible with just hint it towards the sister. A couple of years ago I spoke to a sister online (with the intention of da'wah only) her husband considered himself a Muslim but she herself left Islam because many of the questions of her the imams and such did not answer rather reaction of..this comes from sheytan and do not think like that.

Anyways she wore tight clothes and or said sometimes things she even did it on purpose so the jealousy in her husband would kick in. However nothing. I advised her to dress more loose clothing when she wanted to go to a friends party. She appreciated greatly for me saying that to her as to her it was a sign of somebody who cares for you. Sadly later on found out that whole intention of her marrying that guy at the start was to continue her study. The whole marriage had no foundation and was unstable on many aspects...however she was able to continue with her study and was already finishing her second masters. That taught me a very valuable lesson of how serious one's intention needs to be in the marriage as you will get exactly what you intended.
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AbdurRahman.
03-23-2017, 07:45 AM
i saw this guy admonish two sisters drinking some soft drinks one day; he was saying 'haram haram!' and the sisters were just laughing at him and drinking even more! :Emoji48: and thats the adverse effect it could have on immodest sisters i think

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!
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Simple_Person
03-23-2017, 08:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
i saw this guy admonish two sisters drinking some soft drinks one day; he was saying 'haram haram!' and the sisters were just laughing at him and drinking even more! :Emoji48: and thats the adverse effect it could have on immodest sisters i think

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!
To change somebody's mind, i think we as human beings must first listen to what they have to say. Often it is lack of understanding they do not follow the right path. I mean just listen to somebody's story with empathy we then can put the advice where it is placed within their story to make it more sense. So if a woman has been assaulted in her life, has a trauma and is scared of men, but still wears such tight clothes. Knowing and feeling her sadness we than can place the covering-body part within her story. While walking up to her and saying..sister cover up, would rather be very blunt. They might do something but not really know that there is another way, just like those sisters kept drinking.

To take myself as an example. In my life i saw people wanting to settle down and start a family, but all their life had no meaning as many would walk against mid-life crisis or even worse of committing suicide because despite they having accomplished what they wanted...they would be empty inside. I am a stubborn man if i do not get a logic, rational and reasonable answer to my questions. So i refused to live the life of all the people that went before me to settle down and start a family. So somebody walking up to me and saying "brother look in to Islam"..would have looked to me as those "ooh i have seen the face of God in a cloud"-people. So in other words i would have thrown that in the bin. While rather knowing my story and placing Islam in my story by logic, rationality and reason would make more sense.
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sister herb
03-23-2017, 09:06 AM
It depends of course what is the situation. If sister already covers herself and cover has accidentally moved a little, sister may feels that correcting is only a sign of caring comparing if she doesn´t cover at all but use miniskirt or tight jeans and you go to tell her that "That´s haram, you have to cover yourself!". In such cases, you may have to look out the handbag.
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AbdurRahman.
03-23-2017, 09:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!
damn! i tired to find this video of shaykh Hamza Yusuf in tears while relating a story!!!; he went into a shop one day and there were some terribly dressed sisters; he said to them, 'you are my sisters in Islam!, and you are dressing the way men would look at you as a wolf looks at sheep! ... he said few days later he went back to that shop and saw one of the sisters started wearing hijab! :Emoji43:
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Simple_Person
03-23-2017, 09:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
It depends of course what is the situation. If sister already covers herself and cover has accidentally moved a little, sister may feels that correcting is only a sign of caring comparing if she doesn´t cover at all but use miniskirt or tight jeans and you go to tell her that "That´s haram, you have to cover yourself!". In such cases, you may have to look out the handbag.
Sub'han'Allah, just the comment above yours, i learned from my "own" comment. This is what "i" said.

To take myself as an example. In my life i saw people wanting to settle down and start a family, but all their life had no meaning as many would walk against mid-life crisis or even worse of committing suicide because despite they having accomplished what they wanted...they would be empty inside. I am a stubborn man if i do not get a logic, rational and reasonable answer to my questions. So i refused to live the life of all the people that went before me to settle down and start a family. So somebody walking up to me and saying "brother look in to Islam"..would have looked to me as those "ooh i have seen the face of God in a cloud"-people. So in other words i would have thrown that in the bin. While rather knowing my story and placing Islam in my story by logic, rationality and reason would make more sense.
I sub'han'Allah then suddenly realized something, although i have known this for years since becoming Muslim but now suddenly realizing it and understanding it more. Qur'an took 23 years to arrive. When did the ayaat come down? As far as my knowledge goes is that often were solutions to peoples problems. So no advice out of the blue but LITERALLY "PLACING ISLAM IN THE LIFE STORIES OF PEOPLE". As you yourself said if it is accidentally done, one can advice. However to change something that is not by accident done one need to place this Islamic advice within THEIR story. Just like you said, you will probably not achieve it as it is thrown in her face/life story not placed in her life story. While Islam as we know was placed every time in the life stories of people.
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sister herb
03-23-2017, 09:30 AM
This same we can find from the old saying: before you can tell to other person how to walk, you should try to walk using his shoes.
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*charisma*
03-23-2017, 10:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
So I guess it is personal then? You are okay with men approaching you, I'm not and many women are not. It doesn't make us wrong and there's many ways to care for brothers and sister and try to please Allah.
No, that's the thing. It's not personal. And no I'm not "okay" with men approaching me unnecessarily. It has to be with a purpose/reason for the sake of Allah. I mean I'd much rather not have anyone have to approach me, and if so, a woman firstly, but if not, then a brother. This is what will make me most comfortable. However, the point you're missing here is the end goal. Yours is comfort. Mine is proper wear. So whether a guy is telling you something good or not, you are not comfortable with it at all. Therefore these scenarios probably do not apply to you at all because no matter what it is, you just don't want any brothers approaching you for anything, and that's fine. I, on the other hand, have not made comfort my priority when it comes to doing something right, so I totally allow advice that comes my way. Secondly, I don't think it should matter who the advice is coming from because the truth is the truth. Another way I think about it is that if I passed out on the road somewhere, and a male doctor came to my aid, should I admonish him just because he's a male doctor and not a female doctor? Of course not, because my end goal here is safety and health, not comfort.


format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
I've never said all men do it out of ill intentions As you said, most men don't do it and that's because naturally men are not inclined to try and correct women that are not theirs to correct . I hope that makes sense. I don't find it courageous if a man approached me to correct my attire, I find it on the offensive side, even if the brother is a nice guy.
Yes, and I understand the "approaching" part can be an issue, which is why I'm asking of other methods which are less invasive. I also think that it makes a huge difference in the way advise is given because it can easily make someone feel quite defensive to be told they're dressed inappropriately.

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
Most of them do though. Sure, there are always exceptions, but that isn't the norm. When it is a new muslim woman, then she probably doesn't know and in most of those cases they are looking for guidance. When its a young girl, she may be under the wrong impression, correct, but they have mothers... I remember during ramadan once, there was a girl who would unbutton her abaya, take off her hijab and put on red hot lipstick while her parents were in tarawee prayer and she's prance around where the boys were hanging out.

I personally went through a period of wearing fitted mini dresses with a long black flowy skirt and a long black cardigan and headscarf. I knew it wasn't correct, but I justified it and wore it anyway. Any brother who has courted a woman for marriage and has addressed hijab can tell you that they get defensive right away.

So, I respectfully disagree with assuming women don't know. It's quite easy to tell really, if you hang around the masjid enough and if you are familiar with the community
Justifications come with ignorance. We justify things because we believe one thing to be as correct when it's not, or we believe we have room for making mistakes, when we don't. Ignorance. Wearing something you KNOW you shouldn't be wearing is straight up disobedience--arrogance. Their priorities are not to please ALlah subhanahu wa ta'ala but themselves. And when someone realizes that and fears Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala then they change. But until they are out of that haze of ignorance/arrogance, then they remain dressed the same. So to some extent, these women are ignorant and maybe also arrogant, but that's not for us to decide because none of us know what is deep in the heart of man. Our duty is dawah.
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*charisma*
03-23-2017, 10:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
:hmm:

speaking from experience, it's better to just walk on! Although there was this one time the sister told me "I'm not actually a Muslim?" and yeah, that was the safest version of events :phew

Scimi
;D ;D What happened??


format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
i saw this guy admonish two sisters drinking some soft drinks one day; he was saying 'haram haram!' and the sisters were just laughing at him and drinking even more! :Emoji48: and thats the adverse effect it could have on immodest sisters i think

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!
Well, saying "haram! haram!" is not effective in my opinion, but he at least said something when he saw people doing wrong, even if nothing happened.

format_quote Originally Posted by 'abd al-hakeem
Four males are responsible for the females in the family, at this point in time I can't recall the 4th but they include Father, brother and husband. If the women in the family are dressed irresponsibly, is it up to any other male in intercede, other than family? Maybe the power of dua is what's best. Make dua for the sister and her family for guidance.

Have we considered the reason for asking for an opinion when we already have the Sunnah and Qur'an to rely on?

"To you be your way..."

Allahu alem.
Well when it comes to dawah, it is best to correct yourself, then the closest people to you ie. your family, then your friends, etc. I also feel that it's more effective if, as bro @Simple_Person said, to word advice in a way which resonates with the person or puts it in a different perspective for them. This is not compulsion, but rather, giving them something to ponder about or softening their heart towards doing what's right.
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AbdurRahman.
03-23-2017, 10:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

Well, saying "haram! haram!" is not effective in my opinion, but he at least said something when he saw people doing wrong, even if nothing happened.

yes thats right; and it well could get them to ponder over what he said even though they didn't stop straight away! :)
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Umm♥Layth
03-23-2017, 11:09 AM
So I had a conversation with my husband last night. He was in university for about 8 years and was very active in the MSA, so I felt it would be useful to get his info. For the sake of getting some more male input, here's our short convo on this matter:

Me: "Have you ever and do you corrected strangers [muslim] about how they dress?"

DH(dear husband): "Yes"

Me: "Sisters or brothers?"

DH: "Both, if I know them"

Me: "So you don't correct strangers?"

DH: "Not really"

Me: "So if a strange sister walked by you on the street with her abaya tucked in her pants, clearly an accident, would you let her go on like that?"

DH: "I'd probably tell her, but these days it isn't easy to tell if a sister means to cover fully or not. If she was wearing niqab, I'd for sure let her know, but otherwise it would be tough"

Me: "So women like to go around walking with abayas tucked in their pants as a fashion statement?"

DH: "I don't know, you tell me. I guess if I ever saw that, which I don't know how a woman wouldn't feel the breeze and all that, I'd say something"

Me: "Well I don't like strange men approaching me for anything, how would you like it if a strange guy approached your wife to tell her that she has her dress in her pants, he'd have to look at her butt!"

DH: "Well, he could always get a sister to tell her instead."

ME: "Funny how it changes if it is your wife huh? What if for some reason her leg was showing from under her skirt or abaya?"

DH: "How does that even happen? It depends on the situation. If it was like an Islamic event where there's alot of people around, I would have a sister tell her. If I was walking down the street, I'd quickly let her know and keep walking so she doesn't get embarrassed."

ME: "That's interesting. So what if you were on the street and a sister had her jilbab buttoned down and she was not appropriately dressed underneath and to you could see private areas? Is it appropriate to address that?"

DH: "No, that's not appropriate. I'm sure she'd figure it out once she noticed people staring, although again, not sure how a person wouldn't know"

ME: "What about if it was a sister with tight jeans, fitted shirt and hijab? Would you say something then?"

DH: "No way, that is not accidental. Do you know what she'd say to me? "Why were you looking at me in the first place, you are supposed to lower your gaze."

ME: "Yeah, you should lower your gaze. Why you looking in the first place huh?"

DH: "Yeah, always looking at the floor so I run into things. I should keep my eyes on the gas pedal and not the road :D. Lowering the gaze means you don't stare, not that you can't look to see where you are going and what you are doing."

ME: "Touché. Aren't we supposed to prevent evil though and give dawa though? How is it correct to allow a sister to walk around like that and say nothing?"

DH: "You are supposed to tell her in the best way possible and for women, telling them on the spot will only result in some sort of drama because women tend to be emotional about this subject. If it is an ongoing thing, you'd have to find the right way to address the situation. It will be difficult though, because they choose to dress that way knowing that it isn't appropriate. If it is somebody I know, I will address it, but it still doesn't turn out pretty though."

ME: "Well, I think its a mahram's place to address the dress. Every woman has a father or husband or brother or uncle."

DH: "Yeah, but not with her everywhere she goes. Addressing an accident like hair sticking out, skin showing where it wasn't meant to show, tags sticking out and whatnot, is not the same as addressing purposeful wrong dress."

ME: "I don't like being approached by men for anything, it is not appropriate, so I can't say I agree with what you do, but then again women are funny like that. Maybe it is a good things some guys feel the way you do. I dunno."

DH: "If you are approached, then just keep walking and don't worry about it. Just make sure you check yourself constantly to avoid the issue all together"

I didn't know my husband was one of those guys ;D There you have it folks. Hope this conversation brought some insight.
Reply

sister herb
03-23-2017, 11:15 AM
But is drinking soft drinks haram then? They usually haven´t alcohol (like limonade)? Even if it was for example time of Ramadan, they might have some reason why they couldn´t fast.
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M.I.A.
03-23-2017, 11:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
i saw this guy admonish two sisters drinking some soft drinks one day; he was saying 'haram haram!' and the sisters were just laughing at him and drinking even more! :Emoji48: and thats the adverse effect it could have on immodest sisters i think

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!
i notice people eating and drinking using the left hand a lot. i did not think it would be that common.

although i work in an eating and drinking shop.

although maybe people dont think about it?
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Umm♥Layth
03-23-2017, 11:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
, the point you're missing here is the end goal. Yours is comfort. Mine is proper wear.
Not true. Walking in skin head territory with Islamic attire is completely uncomfortable lol, if comfort was my end goal,I would not wear it. But my end goal is actually to be properly covered as Allah asked me to be. I make sure everything is fastened and in its place before leaving the house every time so I have no slip ups. I got rid of the stuff that doesn't work well (like button up abayas/jilbabs) and I layer where need be so nothing has a chance of sticking out.


Yes, and I understand the "approaching" part can be an issue, which is why I'm asking of other methods which are less invasive. I also think that it makes a huge difference in the way advise is given because it can easily make someone feel quite defensive to be told they're dressed inappropriately.
Agreed!


Justifications come with ignorance. We justify things because we believe one thing to be as correct when it's not, or we believe we have room for making mistakes, when we don't. Ignorance. Wearing something you KNOW you shouldn't be wearing is straight up disobedience--arrogance. Their priorities are not to please ALlah subhanahu wa ta'ala but themselves. And when someone realizes that and fears Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala then they change. But until they are out of that haze of ignorance/arrogance, then they remain dressed the same. So to some extent, these women are ignorant and maybe also arrogant, but that's not for us to decide because none of us know what is deep in the heart of man. Our duty is dawah.
Yes, which is why I posed a question earlier. Is it really the clothing that needs to be addressed here or should we be reaching out in another way? It's like telling a smoker they shouldn't smoke and listing all the health hazards, which they already know about. It doesn't work. A different approach has to be taken, in my opinion. That's if one really cares to help change happen.
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AbdurRahman.
03-23-2017, 11:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
i notice people eating and drinking using the left hand a lot. i did not think it would be that common.

although i work in an eating and drinking shop.

although maybe people dont think about it?
er you forgot to take your meds again! :Emoji48::Emoji48::Emoji48:

oops sorry i'm so used to reading 'odd' comments from you i thought this must be another one :Emoji47:; forgive me? :Emoji49:

well kuffar eat with left hands as they hold fork in left hand innt?

muslims can be idiots basically not thinking about it, however if the right hand is busy it's ok to eat with the left! and guess what?; even if right hand is not busy and someone eats with left hand it is still not a sin* according to consensus! :o, however it is not right! :Emoji29:

* it is not a sin as long as one doesn't intend to go against sunnah and the hadith where a man was condemned for eating with left hand; he lied and said his right hand was disabled and he disobeyed a direct command from prophet (saw)? or kaliph?

damn couldn't find the link where i read it again but it was from mainstream sunnipath site!
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Simple_Person
03-23-2017, 11:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
-
I guess your husband and i have the same conclusion. At first i said in both way's i would not notify her about it. However after some discussion i agree that i am wrong on one part but correct on the other part. So he also would correct a sister like me when she unintentionally did something wrong. About button of her jilbab as you said, isn't the hijab to cover large part of the chest of women? So in other words even if a button was lose, it should not be visible as the hijab is even covering it.

With other sisters(tight pants) he and i also both agree, that the sister walking with such tight pants has done it on purpose. So no use of notifying her as she is aware what she is wearing. Rather it would backfire on us.. :)

+1 for us men being somehow on the same mentality. ;D
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M.I.A.
03-23-2017, 01:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
er you forgot to take your meds again! :Emoji48::Emoji48::Emoji48:

oops sorry i'm so used to reading 'odd' comments from you i thought this must be another one :Emoji47:; forgive me? :Emoji49:

well kuffar eat with left hands as they hold fork in left hand innt?

muslims can be idiots basically not thinking about it, however if the right hand is busy it's ok to eat with the left! and guess what?; even if right hand is not busy and someone eats with left hand it is still not a sin* according to consensus! :o, however it is not right! :Emoji29:

* it is not a sin as long as one doesn't intend to go against sunnah and the hadith where a man was condemned for eating with left hand; he lied and said his right hand was disabled and he disobeyed a direct command from prophet (saw)? or kaliph?

damn couldn't find the link where i read it again but it was from mainstream sunnipath site!
..honestly i think i have.

i remember reading it in the quran.. but there is no mention of it lol.

i have been decieved.

muck around and get your cap pilled.
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Samiun
03-23-2017, 02:27 PM
:sl: nope, but I do know some brothers who would compliment Muslimahs to get them to wear Hijab lol. Like "You look better if you wore a hijab".

It's obvious they should know what they are suppose to do, I guess I'm pretty bad with Woman so it'll be more awkward to actually say that directly and I'm more of an indirect person towards people I do not know well. I know a really fired up Muslimah who have a long list of arguments on hand if you even dare to question it.

It's the same with asking people whether they do Salat or not(without build or leading questions), you are questioning them and it makes them agitated because it's a personal and emotional thing. I'd rather invite them to Salat knowing they would not go but worth the try anyway. It's frustrating at times but you remind yourself that Allah gave you Hidayah and thats why you are doing certain things that other people did not do. He can also take that Hidayah back or that person who does not follow Islam properly may get Hidayah from Allah we don't know. Allahu'alam.
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AbdurRahman.
03-23-2017, 02:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
..honestly i think i have.

i remember reading it in the quran.. but there is no mention of it lol.

i have been decieved.

muck around and get your cap pilled.
lolol i knew it! :Emoji47:

er your not a Quran only are you ??? :o; hope not :) [just giving you benifit of doubt you said something 'sane' here, i.e, what i mentioned is not in Quran? :hmm:]
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M.I.A.
03-23-2017, 03:27 PM
well thats the joke. how can you claim to be both without knowing whats written in the quran?

..so yeah, quran only.

...and no.. because thats quite a befuddlement.

dont know where i read it?

its really sad. because i dont know arabic.. and at the time thought about if it actually meant right hand?

anyway. what people do without thought..

ignorance is bliss.

..and then the day comes where everything is too close.

i cant really say anything because everybody knows everything.

..they apparently have the best answers.


but i must say, i dont fit the label you gave me.

im pretty sure you dont question either the quran or hadith resources..

and in that i think you could justify whatever your heart willed.

damn im still wearing a cap so people dont make comments on my hair length.

..and so people dont talk about how ball'd im getting.
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*charisma*
03-23-2017, 04:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
Me: "Well I don't like strange men approaching me for anything, how would you like it if a strange guy approached your wife to tell her that she has her dress in her pants, he'd have to look at her butt!"
Why does a man have to look/stare/focus at a woman's private parts in order to tell her something is wrong with her hijaab? :D If someone is at a distance and something is wrong with their garment, I'll be able to see it quite easily without focusing my attention at that certain body part. Once this girl was standing next to me, and I glanced over and saw that her abayah's buttons at the top weren't buttoned and her scarf was not covering her chest. Her eyes were adorned in makeup and her posture looked like she couldn't care less either about how she was dressed. So I was thinking should I tell her? because she doesn't even look like she even cares. I'm also generally quite a shy person so here I was thinking I'll just ignore her and let her continue her day as she is, if she cares she'll fix it herself. After a few seconds debating with myself, I thought, what's the right thing to do despite how I feel or how I'm judging her?? So I simply leaned in to her and I said sis your chest is exposed and that's it. She looked down and fixed it. It was really that simple. So had I not said anything and brothers saw her skin exposed like that, I may get some blame for it because I didn't speak out against something which was wrong when I had the chance to.

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
DH: "You are supposed to tell her in the best way possible and for women, telling them on the spot will only result in some sort of drama because women tend to be emotional about this subject. If it is an ongoing thing, you'd have to find the right way to address the situation. It will be difficult though, because they choose to dress that way knowing that it isn't appropriate. If it is somebody I know, I will address it, but it still doesn't turn out pretty though."
This exemplifies a reaction, which we pointed out earlier as a problem when it comes to informing sisters. Brothers don't tell them because of sisters being dramatic, which they prefer to avoid. So their intention to say something is still there. They want to say something to protect them, but don't because they don't want to get in trouble ;D So I think in that regard, sisters are harsh.


format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
Not true. Walking in skin head territory with Islamic attire is completely uncomfortable lol, if comfort was my end goal,I would not wear it. But my end goal is actually to be properly covered as Allah asked me to be. I make sure everything is fastened and in its place before leaving the house every time so I have no slip ups. I got rid of the stuff that doesn't work well (like button up abayas/jilbabs) and I layer where need be so nothing has a chance of sticking out.
I'm not talking about wearing hijaab. I'm talking about attire issues. I'm not saying it's between not wearing hijaab and wearing hijaab. It's between having an exposed body part and having someone bring it to your attention, or walking that way until you notice it without a brother bringing it to your attention (considering he was the only option). Two different things. And if I'm correct, you'd prefer to walk that way without a brother bringing it to your attention.


format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
Yes, which is why I posed a question earlier. Is it really the clothing that needs to be addressed here or should we be reaching out in another way? It's like telling a smoker they shouldn't smoke and listing all the health hazards, which they already know about. It doesn't work. A different approach has to be taken, in my opinion. That's if one really cares to help change happen.
Or telling a fat person to start a diet ;D Yes, there has to be some art form to it..so I hope we can all brainstorm because I while I think new ideas can help with "hijaab issues" I also think it can help in other aspects too, even with sister-sister interactions.


format_quote Originally Posted by Samiun
nope, but I do know some brothers who would compliment Muslimahs to get them to wear Hijab lol. Like "You look better if you wore a hijab".

It's obvious they should know what they are suppose to do, I guess I'm pretty bad with Woman so it'll be more awkward to actually say that directly and I'm more of an indirect person towards people I do not know well. I know a really fired up Muslimah who have a long list of arguments on hand if you even dare to question it.

It's the same with asking people whether they do Salat or not(without build or leading questions), you are questioning them and it makes them agitated because it's a personal and emotional thing. I'd rather invite them to Salat knowing they would not go but worth the try anyway. It's frustrating at times but you remind yourself that Allah gave you Hidayah and thats why you are doing certain things that other people did not do. He can also take that Hidayah back or that person who does not follow Islam properly may get Hidayah from Allah we don't know. Allahu'alam.
Well, I'll tell you this. When I was in my teens, I didn't wear the hijaab. My family was not really religious, but subconciously I knew it was an obligation for muslimahs to wear it. I still dressed modestly but not Islamically modest if that makes sense. When I started to get into Islam and learn about it, I became more aware that this was a duty I needed to do, but my faith was still not there yet because there was no attachment to the idea of wearing hijaab, that is, until a brother put it in perspective for me. This brother beautified the hijaab for me in a way that made it seem like hijaabis were the hoorulayn of this dunyaa. He never once belittled me for not wearing hijaab, nor complimented me on my beauty if I did wear it. He also didn't criticize non-hijaabis or said anything to intentionally coerce me into wearing hijaab. But what he did do was turn the focus on hijaabis themselves. On the topic, he said "When I see a niqaabi, I think of how beautiful she is, not due to the physicality or anything, but because she reminds me of Allah. Men complain about the beard or about the little things, but a woman who is able to cover her entire body for Allah's sake and be proud of that humbles me and makes me remember Him." He basically ripped apart every image of every "beautiful" woman I had in my mind and made me realize what true beauty is. What he said stuck with me for life and it was probably the first thing that pierced my heart and made me adore the idea of hijaab and love the concept. After that, it was about me building up my iman to the point that my love for the hijaab was far greater than my fears/love of dunyaa. I'd say it was about a year after that, I wore full hijaab and never went back or thought of taking it off because of how much love I had for it in my heart and how much my trust in Allah grew because of it. He didn't have to judge me to make me feel bad about myself in order to wear it. My hidaaya came through him. Had he not said anything, it may have taken a longer time to get to where I wanted to be in life. Allahu a'lem.

Today you see brothers and sisters criticizing hijaabis for how they dress or what they wear etc., but at the same time, they give their attention to nonMuslim women, they speak about what they find enticing about them, and they try to be "accepted" among them, whereas any woman who wears a piece of her faith on her exterior is vile, seductive, wrong, careless, etc. etc. because it's not worn 100% correctly. Why does it have to be that way?


Every hijaabi has a "hijaabi journey." We all go through one, and we're all on different stages. But ultimately, we are wearing it for the sake of Allah and we HAVE to have that deep love for it and tawakkul in order for it to be easy for us to wear. So maybe when a brother lets me know something is off about my hijaab, it makes me feel that he respects and cares about my dedication to wearing the hijaab properly, and therefore is helping me preserve what I began years ago. There are men or families who tell their women to remove their hijaab or to not even start wearing it. So I will never discourage, disparage, or cause controversy towards a muslim brother who has a lot more respect and adoration for it than I once did a long time ago. And I've also had male nonMuslims ask me about the hijaab and after I tell them about it they say "wow I wish that our women were like that too.."

Women are indirectly conditioning men to be a certain way where they have no say in how they dress or what they do, and I can understand that because some women are forced to dress a certain way and they want to break themselves free from the shackles of being told what to wear and how to dress, but there needs to be a balance because eventually what it kills off is the innate jealousy/protectiveness in men towards the woman of the ummah. It reinforces the idea that women are only objects (but on the other side of the spectrum), rather than identifying them as sisters, wives, mothers etc. because why should they care about you if you want to be seen as a "free woman of this dunyaa who needs no one to tell her what to wear" and not as a mother, sister, wife in Islam? You already see the effects of this in the west.

Sorry for the long post :D
Reply

Serinity
03-23-2017, 05:12 PM
:salam:


One does not have to stare to notice something is wrong. yes, we should lower our gaze, etc. But does that mean we glue our faces to the road? of course not. What we shouldn't do is stare.

Tbh, I have never approached a sister about their Hijab.

Allahu alam.
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Simple_Person
03-23-2017, 05:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

But what he did do was turn the focus on hijaabis themselves. On the topic, he said "When I see a niqaabi, I think of how beautiful she is, not due to the physicality or anything, but because she reminds me of Allah. Men complain about the beard or about the little things, but a woman who is able to cover her entire body for Allah's sake and be proud of that humbles me and makes me remember Him." He basically ripped apart every image of every "beautiful" woman I had in my mind and made me realize what true beauty is. What he said stuck with me for life and it was probably the first thing that pierced my heart and made me adore the idea of hijaab and love the concept. After that, it was about me building up my iman to the point that my love for the hijaab was far greater than my fears/love of dunyaa. I'd say it was about a year after that, I wore full hijaab and never went back or thought of taking it off because of how much love I had for it in my heart and how much my trust in Allah grew because of it. He didn't have to judge me to make me feel bad about myself in order to wear it. My hidaaya came through him. Had he not said anything, it may have taken a longer time to get to where I wanted to be in life. Allahu a'lem.
Sister, Jazakallah khairan for sharing this. Although i myself whenever i see sisters in clothing according to Islamic principles, only two things come to my mind. Respect and wanting to marry such a woman. That piece you wrote gave me even more perspective. Again jazakallah khairan for sharing.
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noraina
03-24-2017, 12:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
What would you sisters actually do though if a man did approach you about your hijaab, whether it be to notify you that something is showing or to advise etc. Do you respond to him, do you ignore him..what?

Also, say a nonMuslim man approached you, and asked you a question about hijaab. Would it make any difference in how you feel?? Would you answer him?

Sorry for the late reply...honestly, I'm not fond of confrontations. I would probably politely acknowledge what he has said, and then walk off. It would be embarrassing though.

If it was a non-Muslim man, the same applies. This has never happened to me and from my experience, most non-Muslim men keep their distance from women wearing the hijab, they're very cautious and wary around you, lol.

Once a Muslim brother did comment that a blue cardigan I was wearing was a little too 'bright'. I acknowledged what he said but thought 'How rude!' as I walked off (very British I know :D). It was just a royal blue and was a loose ankle-length cardigan over a black abaya - hardly anything outrageous.

I am not saying men are wrong or do not know about the deen, but I don't think they should be going up to a sister and commenting directly on her clothing, leave that to the women. Discussing it in a khutbah or book is something else and is just fine, or perhaps if you have a respected position in the community or know the sister then you can advise her - but in a way which isn't patronising or awkward.
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piXie
03-24-2017, 12:47 PM
:sl:

Good points of reflection. Enjoining the right and forbidding the wrong is an obligation upon us all but we also need to know how to do it without causing more fitna. We always need to keep the end result in mind. There r all types of people out there - need to be able to calculate n see the situation with wisdom. There r some women, I would never approach them regarding their dress, and others - I would. And while we don't want to judge anyone , there is a certain amount of human judgement involved in order to do that. :hmm:
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*charisma*
03-24-2017, 01:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Sister, Jazakallah khairan for sharing this. Although i myself whenever i see sisters in clothing according to Islamic principles, only two things come to my mind. Respect and wanting to marry such a woman. That piece you wrote gave me even more perspective. Again jazakallah khairan for sharing.
Wa iyaakum. Mashallah that bro ended up marrying a niqaabi and he was crazy about her, may allah bless them both ameen. He was able to elevate the status of the hijaab without degrading any woman, and I think when someone does that (puts Islam first), it eliminates the background noise when selecting a spouse.


format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
Sorry for the late reply...honestly, I'm not fond of confrontations. I would probably politely acknowledge what he has said, and then walk off. It would be embarrassing though.

If it was a non-Muslim man, the same applies. This has never happened to me and from my experience, most non-Muslim men keep their distance from women wearing the hijab, they're very cautious and wary around you, lol.

Once a Muslim brother did comment that a blue cardigan I was wearing was a little too 'bright'. I acknowledged what he said but thought 'How rude!' as I walked off (very British I know :D). It was just a royal blue and was a loose ankle-length cardigan over a black abaya - hardly anything outrageous.

I am not saying men are wrong or do not know about the deen, but I don't think they should be going up to a sister and commenting directly on her clothing, leave that to the women. Discussing it in a khutbah or book is something else and is just fine, or perhaps if you have a respected position in the community or know the sister then you can advise her - but in a way which isn't patronising or awkward.
Jazaki Allahu khair sis, I understand where you're coming from. So you would feel better if it were addressed indirectly towards you (eg. in a khutbah) and/or it was brought to your attention but without the actual confrontation (like a note), right?

I've noticed a lot of times sisters don't say anything to other sisters about their hijaab mishaps and there's also a lack of encouragement about wearing hijaab properly. At least in my experiences. They tend to avoid the subject as much as brothers do and I think it has to do with the way sisters respond to such advise, or they simply don't care to say anything.
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sister herb
03-24-2017, 01:27 PM
But how often people in general comment other´s dressing? I think many take it offensive and feel it´s only like criticizing. Only if there is some mistake people may say something but rarely to unknow.

Do brothers make such comments to other brothers as they too might make mistakes with their clothes?
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noraina
03-24-2017, 02:23 PM
It is true, even amongst sisters, there is this hesitation to give or take advice.

I think we have lost our sense of community and loving one another for the sake of Allah, I'm sure we've all experienced many times saying salaam to a sister and she utterly blanks you. Perhaps it is a consequence of 'modern' society but people aren't as close to or trusting of each other any more.

Sis @*charisma* exactly, I wouldn't mind if a sister approached me, I want to improve. The attitude of the one giving advice and the attitude of the one taking advice is very important. If you criticise someone and make them feel bad and call that 'advice' that never going to work, it's just going to come out as 'holier than thou' and self-righteous. And on the other side, there are some people who react very defensively when taking advice, even from another sister.

There are some women I wouldn't dare say anything to because they'd bite my head off - it's sad but true.

I wasn't particularly good at taking advice myself. I've since gotten better, it's about swallowing down your pride and recognising if what that person is saying actually holds some truths, and be willing to change because of that.
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*charisma*
03-24-2017, 04:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
But how often people in general comment other´s dressing? I think many take it offensive and feel it´s only like criticizing. Only if there is some mistake people may say something but rarely to unknow.
Well there's two things here: 1) A sister's unknowingly has a hijaab issue where it's exposing her 'awrah 2) A sister knowingly dresses improperly (eg. wearing tight clothes with hijaab). It's much harder to go to a sister and talk to her about #2 and advise etc. unless the sister somehow shows openness to this or if you already know her, but for #1 I would hope that both sisters and brothers could be simple and respectful in notifying the sister about exposure and the sister in return has no attitude or issues with this. Like you said it's a rare thing for people to really say anything, so I think that when someone does say something in a respectful way, it's not out of bad intent so there shouldn't be any issues with it.


format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
It is true, even amongst sisters, there is this hesitation to give or take advice.

I think we have lost our sense of community and loving one another for the sake of Allah, I'm sure we've all experienced many times saying salaam to a sister and she utterly blanks you. Perhaps it is a consequence of 'modern' society but people aren't as close to or trusting of each other any more.

Sis @*charisma* exactly, I wouldn't mind if a sister approached me, I want to improve. The attitude of the one giving advice and the attitude of the one taking advice is very important. If you criticise someone and make them feel bad and call that 'advice' that never going to work, it's just going to come out as 'holier than thou' and self-righteous. And on the other side, there are some people who react very defensively when taking advice, even from another sister.

There are some women I wouldn't dare say anything to because they'd bite my head off - it's sad but true.

I wasn't particularly good at taking advice myself. I've since gotten better, it's about swallowing down your pride and recognising if what that person is saying actually holds some truths, and be willing to change because of that.
Mashallah, yes I totally agree with everything you've said. Criticism usually is not going to work (it depends on who's doing the criticism for me though, cuz I have lots of respect for the older generation so I don't mind if they have something to say ;D), and I also think it's very important to also be doing the right thing when advising others because you don't want to be hypocritical. But I feel that there's a lack of jealousy for one another (as in the protectiveness and sense of community you mentioned), and a lack of jealousy towards those who are better than us (the craving of being among the best of believers and competing with them in good deeds).
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anatolian
03-24-2017, 05:30 PM
I think the question is about a sister who wears hijab but it is distorted somehow. In this case I dont see a problem with a sicere warn. But if the sister doesnt wear hijab at all, its not my buiseness to say anything to her
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Umm♥Layth
03-24-2017, 06:51 PM
nevermind lol this posted before I was done.
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aaj
03-24-2017, 06:52 PM
Reminds me of a news i read last week. Egypt shiekh saw Mubarak at the Prophet's masjid and went up to him and reminded him to 'fear Allalh'. His securities escorted both of them out separately and took the sheikh back and imprisoned him for 15 years. He just got out now.
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aicha94o
03-24-2017, 07:01 PM
Assalam alaykum

I don't mind a brother coming up to me and telling me to put my hijab as irritating as he might be. I have men telling me or asking me to put hijab. He wouldn't tell me that if he didn't care. Also I'm right there in front of him, so of course he is going to see me. Ladies never be mad if someone tell you to cover yourself. I used to wear hijab myself. But I stopped it for two reasons.
I wore hijab not because I wanted to please Allah but because I had cut my hair.
Second i used to wear hijab while wearing tight clothes, I felt that it was disrespectful in a way. When God said cover yourself it wasn't only the head but also the body. I see many sisters wearing hijab and wearing tight clothes and makeup. I'm not judging anyone but I don't that's real hijab. May Allah Guide us all, give us patience and grant us life and death of a good Muslim.
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anatolian
03-24-2017, 07:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
Reminds me of a news i read last week. Egypt shiekh saw Mubarak at the Prophet's masjid and went up to him and reminded him to 'fear Allalh'. His securities escorted both of them out separately and took the sheikh back and imprisoned him for 15 years. He just got out now.
Yea be carefull whom you warn..
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Simple_Person
03-24-2017, 07:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aicha94o
Assalam alaykum

I don't mind a brother coming up to me and telling me to put my hijab as irritating as he might be. I have men telling me or asking me to put hijab. He wouldn't tell me that if he didn't care. Also I'm right there in front of him, so of course he is going to see me. Ladies never be mad if someone tell you to cover yourself. I used to wear hijab myself. But I stopped it for two reasons.
I wore hijab not because I wanted to please Allah but because I had cut my hair.
Second i used to wear hijab while wearing tight clothes, I felt that it was disrespectful in a way. When God said cover yourself it wasn't only the head but also the body. I see many sisters wearing hijab and wearing tight clothes and makeup. I'm not judging anyone but I don't that's real hijab. May Allah Guide us all, give us patience and grant us life and death of a good Muslim.
Ameen,

Honesty, i just LOVE HONEST PEOPLE!!. Knowing you are wrong and following the path of what you admit is wrong is first step towards right. As you already stated, many sisters wearing hijab but tight pants. Also not judging, but keep doing it thinking it is "oke". Anyways, you have my respect for being honest and admitting your state.

I have said this to many brothers included to myself, if we want to marry to a good wife/husband, we first must work on ourselves. From among our brothers and sisters who already are married, to bring blessings to the marriage also, work on yourselves. I would absolutely NEVER want to marry a sister who doesn't pray and follow Islamic obligations, so WHY would a sister marry me if i don't pray and follow Islamic obligations right? It goes both ways, but again..the first step is honesty. We must admit we are wrong and ask Allah(swt) to guide us to the right path.

May Allah make it easier for you and i to overcome our weaknesses and submit fully to Him. Ameen.
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aicha94o
03-24-2017, 09:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Ameen,

Honesty, i just LOVE HONEST PEOPLE!!. Knowing you are wrong and following the path of what you admit is wrong is first step towards right. As you already stated, many sisters wearing hijab but tight pants. Also not judging, but keep doing it thinking it is "oke". Anyways, you have my respect for being honest and admitting your state.

I have said this to many brothers included to myself, if we want to marry to a good wife/husband, we first must work on ourselves. From among our brothers and sisters who already are married, to bring blessings to the marriage also, work on yourselves. I would absolutely NEVER want to marry a sister who doesn't pray and follow Islamic obligations, so WHY would a sister marry me if i don't pray and follow Islamic obligations right? It goes both ways, but again..the first step is honesty. We must admit we are wrong and ask Allah(swt) to guide us to the right path.

May Allah make it easier for you and i to overcome our weaknesses and submit fully to Him. Ameen.
Thank you brother.

I mean honesty is the key. We muslims today are so different from the ones before us. We are fast to get angry, we are arrogant and pretentious. Muslims before used to be very open to advice because they fear God and wanted to be pleased by Allah. Whereas when you advice someone today that person will say that you're judging him/her. I will accept any advice if it's not haram no matter what that person look like, whether he/she is perfect or not, I don't care. Non-Muslims come to me and ask me why I'm not wearing hijab, isn't that haram and stuff and honestly it makes feel ashamed of myself. although some see that as judgment, it makes think about my life and how I should change.

Thank you for your previous comment :)
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Muslimah inshal
04-03-2017, 07:23 PM
Honestly me myself I would love if a person gives me an advice whether it is a brother or a sister and I would thank her/ him for correcting me .
The problem is that nowadays giving advice is seen like judging and it's not .
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Muslimah inshal
04-03-2017, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
(1) I have observed that women have less problems with heat when it is warm and are easily freezing when it is just slightly breezing. So basically sub'han'Allah the body of women are created in such a manner that during winter they can wear clothes, while men can withstand cold better. In the summer they can withstand the heat better while men are sweating like crazy :). I ALSO have discovered why it is so important to have clothes to have pockets of air between the cloth and the body. During winter it acts like air that is frozen which is extra isolation and during summer breezes can more easily come with under the clothes and cool down the body. So benefit upon benefit to have loosely fitted clothes.

(2) I agree with you on that. In the Qur'an Allah(swt) FIRST talks about men to lower their gaze. Their is even a logic in this. There are women who dress outrageously but just not even looking at those women, i have no problems at all. In another topic i believe it was @sister herb or you who said that dirty men will always be dirty. Now a days as a Muslim for me it is rather hard as it is very difficult to be outside as everywhere you look are indecent things to see. So i just try to adapt my schedule when to go outside, as there are certain time scoops that the eye of the tornado is active you could say. For example Saturday morning when the shops JUST open almost nobody is outside..they are still sleeping or just waking up. You can go quickly to the shop ..do your shopping and go back home. Evaded much trouble :). Or there are primary roads and those back alley's which nobody walks..also eye of the tornado :). Sleep early and wake up early during the night you can take a walk..it is so calm outside (also eye of the tornado). Or even during summers around 05:00 o'clock ..it is very nice and cool outside. Blessed moments.

When you point at something or somebody for the problems, know three fingers are pointing back at you :) (directed at those people who always want to blame women for the problems).
Yeah you are very right . I agree. I always think how men can handle this problem . There are semi naked women everywhere omg [emoji29]
As a sister I think women SHOULD make it easy for men by covering themselves because seriously it's really difficult to be looking always at the floor omg I can not imagine lowering my gaze all day and night . We are not angels . Poor men.
And by covering themselves , they will be respected .
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Simple_Person
04-03-2017, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah inshal
Yeah you are very right . I agree. I always think how men can handle this problem . There are semi naked women everywhere omg [emoji29]
As a sister I think women SHOULD make it easy for men by covering themselves because seriously it's really difficult to be looking always at the floor omg I can not imagine lowering my gaze all day and night . We are not angels . Poor men.
And by covering themselves , they will be respected .
I'm gonna get very frank, maybe even a bit out of line, but just directly hopefully women to understand this. As you yourself pointed out that men constantly looking down. We men are visually very strong. What we see and turns us on, our body already reacts to it. This so called epididymal hypertension, in other words "blue balls". When the seed is being created it needs to get out because we have been turned on. This is being the outcome that men have wet dreams, as these dreams i believe are even a mercy from Allah. the condition of "epididymal hypertention" can only brought back to normal if the seed finds it's way out by having intimate relationship with one's spouse or wet dreams only possible halal way's for Muslim men.

So for many brothers who are not married, this is a big injustice many women doing to them. I mean oke, we look away all the time, but every where now a days you look such women with such tight clothes are there. I have observed my own behavior and the days that i have witnessed such dreams and every time it happened when i came in contact with women or not able to look somewhere that they are not walking there.

Majority of women now a days are such shallow thinkers and think it is their body and they can do what they want with it. Many brothers, Muslim or not Muslim, can control themselves, but some might not. If those insane guys are not assaulting those women, FOR SURE those women are assaulting men who can control themselves and try to look away. How assaulting us? by creating epididymal hypertention in our body. Some women might find this funny and something to laugh about, this is injustice and Day of Judgement will also come for you.
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Muslimah inshal
04-03-2017, 08:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
I'm gonna get very frank, maybe even a bit out of line, but just directly hopefully women to understand this. As you yourself pointed out that men constantly looking down. We men are visually very strong. What we see and turns us on, our body already reacts to it. This so called epididymal hypertension, in other words "blue balls". When the seed is being created it needs to get out because we have been turned on. This is being the outcome that men have wet dreams, as these dreams i believe are even a mercy from Allah. the condition of "epididymal hypertention" can only brought back to normal if the seed finds it's way out by having intimate relationship with one's spouse or wet dreams only possible halal way's for Muslim men.

So for many brothers who are not married, this is a big injustice many women doing to them. I mean oke, we look away all the time, but every where now a days you look such women with such tight clothes are there. I have observed my own behavior and the days that i have witnessed such dreams and every time it happened when i came in contact with women or not able to look somewhere that they are not walking there.

Majority of women now a days are such shallow thinkers and think it is their body and they can do what they want with it. Many brothers, Muslim or not Muslim, can control themselves, but some might not. If those insane guys are not assaulting those women, FOR SURE those women are assaulting men who can control themselves and try to look away. How assaulting us? by creating epididymal hypertention in our body. Some women might find this funny and something to laugh about, this is injustice and Day of Judgement will also come for you.
Yes definitely ! Day of judgement will come and we will all witness it . Whether we did good in our test or bad . We will be asked for every act we did so better to listen to what Allah commanded us to do . Women : cover ; Men : lower gaze. And inshallah everything will be okay .

I really understand what you say . I always ask my older brother how he can handle this situation . Subhanallah , what can I say .

May Allah make it easy for everyone that is having a problem and may Allah help us worship HIM as he told us . Amiin ya rab Al alamiin
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Muslimah inshal
04-03-2017, 08:41 PM
HE ***
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Supernova
04-03-2017, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum


So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?
Asalaamualaykum

I would first point out a mistake of my own. If I don't have any visible error then I will tell her something within me example that I am struggling with tajweed class or something upon those lines and ask for input.

Thereafter I will point out that issue of hijab and ask her if I could do anything to support the cause like get her in touch with some sisters etc.

Its not easy for many muslimahs to make that jump into hijab.

The approach of a cat to its prey is more beautiful than the spring.
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