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Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 03:37 PM
What is the proof that so called "Islamic State" are from the khawaarij? Arent they trying to implement the sharia law?

Is there any proof that they make takfeer on those who commit major sins?
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azc
03-28-2017, 03:46 PM
You are the first person who disagree to this truth of them being khawarij...
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Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 03:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
You are the first person who disagree to this truth of them being khawarij...
Not really, I am just asking for proofs.

What is the proof that they make takfeer on major sins?
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
You are the first person who disagree to this truth of them being khawarij...
I am just curious, why all these Arab countries who fight "Islamic State" reject sharia law? Are they more Islamic?
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Mustafa16
03-28-2017, 04:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
I am just curious, why all these Arab countries who fight "Islamic State" reject sharia law? Are they more Islamic?
even al qaeda is fighting against IS after disowning them for being too extreme, it is not a matter of sharia law....also, the other rebel groups in syria (islamists included) are against them. ISIS has violated the sharia by the killing of civilians, which is prohibited in the sunnah

https://islamqa.info/en/248850
Reply

azc
03-28-2017, 04:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Not really, I am just asking for proofs.What is the proof that they make takfeer on major sins?
http://www.muftisays.com/forums/55-m...-khwarij-.html
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Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 04:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
even al qaeda is fighting against IS after disowning them for being too extreme, it is not a matter of sharia law....also, the other rebel groups in syria (islamists included) are against them. ISIS has violated the sharia by the killing of civilians, which is prohibited in the sunnah

https://islamqa.info/en/248850
What is the proof that they kill women and children?

Narrated As-Sab bin Jathama : the prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack Al-Mushrikun warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The prophet replied, “They (i.e., women and children) are from them (i.e., Al-Mushrikun).” (The book of Jihad #3012, p157)
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Mustafa16
03-28-2017, 04:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
What is the proof that they kill women and children?

Narrated As-Sab bin Jathama : the prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack Al-Mushrikun warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The prophet replied, “They (i.e., women and children) are from them (i.e., Al-Mushrikun).” (The book of Jihad #3012, p157)
the tafseer on that hadeeth is that killing by accident is allowed. ISIS kills on purpose. And they dont just kill the mushrikeen, they also kill Muslims. the proof is that they claim responsibility, and the attackers claim to be a part of ISIS.
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Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 04:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
the tafseer on that hadeeth is that killing by accident is allowed. ISIS kills on purpose. And they dont just kill the mushrikeen, they also kill Muslims. the proof is that they claim responsibility, and the attackers claim to be a part of ISIS.
Which Muslims do they kill? Those who fight them? Apostates?
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Mustafa16
03-28-2017, 04:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Which Muslims do they kill? Those who fight them? Apostates?
again, even if they are killing the mushrikeen, or the atheists and Christians in Europe, they can not deliberately ​target civilians. also, they kill syrian rebels who fight against assad, islamists included. they also do suicide bombings in muslim countries in places like crowded bazaars (marketplaces).
Reply

sister herb
03-28-2017, 04:53 PM
If you want to know the real nature of daesh, you better ask it from those people whose have managed to escape under their rule. Or ask it from those their victims in the other countries.
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Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
If you want to know the real nature of daesh, you better ask it from those people whose have managed to escape under their rule. Or ask it from those their victims in the other countries.
Like for example who?

How do we know these people are telling the truth? They could be paid.
Reply

azc
03-28-2017, 05:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Which Muslims do they kill? Those who fight them? Apostates?
you mean the Muslims who fight against them are apostates...? This is the proof that they are khawarij.... Who are you...? What is your purpose to join this forum..?
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 05:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
you mean the Muslims who fight against them are apostates...? This is proof they are khawarij.... Who are you...? What is your purpose to join this forum..?
So all these Arab countries who fight them are Muslim? What about Arab rulers, are they Muslim too?
Reply

azc
03-28-2017, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
So all these Arab countries who fight them are Muslim? What about Arab rulers, are they Muslim too?
nobody is going to defend Arab rulers. You can criticize them
Reply

Scimitar
03-28-2017, 05:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
What is the proof that so called "Islamic State" are from the khawaarij? Arent they trying to implement the sharia law?

Is there any proof that they make takfeer on those who commit major sins?
What do you consider as evidence? After reading your responses on this thread, I suspect the only evidence you will believe is your own eyes - so why not fly out there and see for yourself? :D

Scimi
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 05:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
What do you consider as evidence? After reading your responses on this thread, I suspect the only evidence you will believe is your own eyes - so why not fly out there and see for yourself? :D

Scimi
I would like to live in an Islamic State under sharia law, only not sure if this khilafah is valid or not.
Reply

azc
03-28-2017, 05:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Like for example who?How do we know these people are telling the truth? They could be paid.
so you don't believe what they say about khawarij ..?
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
so you don't believe what they say about khawarij ..?
They?? Who?
Reply

Simple_Person
03-28-2017, 05:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
What do you consider as evidence? After reading your responses on this thread, I suspect the only evidence you will believe is your own eyes - so why not fly out there and see for yourself? :D

Scimi
I don't think you will get to this guy. Back in 2014 when they just had risen, i was skeptic. In that time i just learned about prisoners captured during war by Muslims and what rights they(prisoners) had over the Muslims. I saw a video of ISIS guys had captured i believe some Shia-Muslims and i saw one ISIS guy hitting a prisoner. I said immediately THIS IS NOT ISLAM.. what he just did. With that i had taken one step away from them. The following months they BY THEIR actions showed more of their actions that have nothing to do with Islam, but more against Islamic teachings. We are soon going to enter the third year of them becoming a fact. The person who has not already branded them as khawarij, for sure is misguided and full of hatred. This guy i also have much doubts you will able to convince him either way. Especially the ones that have hatred inside them, will use excuses to pardon somebody's action although those actions are very clearly AGAINST Islam.

I even have the feeling that ISIS for sure must be a Zionists creation. As to Muslims we know of the end times and that we must join the black flags with Mahdi and such. So they know also, however this Zionists creation thinking all the Muslims are sheeps and with that majority can be wiped out. However they plan and Allah plans and Allah is the best of planners. With ISIS i have seen rather cleansing of the Muslims from hypocrites and extremists. Also Muslims who were just culture-Muslims many have become more practicing and studying the deen.

Anyways, it is futile i believe with this guy, if he himself has not searched for the signs of the khawarij and what they do all this time. Is either already a ISIS member trying to gather people to join him, or some spy to trap Muslims and do something against this forum. As on this forum much is being discussed. if this forum is brought down they will off course ask for all the data to browse through.
Reply

Muhammad
03-28-2017, 05:48 PM
The following should help provide some clarification. The fact that so many scholars have condemned ISIS should send a very clear message, regardless of whether you call them khawarij or not. And if you think what they are doing is 'shariah law', then you need to focus on learning what shariah is before you concern yourself with the meaning of khawarij.


Originally posted by 'Abd al-Latif

Conclusive scholarly opinions on ISIS

The following are views from various Muslim scholars and individuals on ISIS. The list by no means represents any endorsement of those listed by Islam21c or MRDF.

[...]

Most scholars used the Arabic abbreviation ‘Dā’esh’ in reference to ISIS. ‘Dā’esh’ has been substituted for ISIS for the convenience of the reader.

Sheikh Abu Abdullah al-Masry:
Sheikh al-Masry was previously a member of ISIS but withdrew from them on the basis of their ideology and methodology. He justifies his withdrawal by mentioning ISIS’ defamation of the people of Syria, claiming they were ideologically misguided[11], asking how this could be the case if the Prophet salla Allāhu ‘alayh wasalam said: ”If the people of Shaam corrupt, there is no good in you.”

The Sheikh adds:
“The behaviour of many elements in ISIS including leaders consistently is offensive towards the people of Syria and its Mujāhidīn, accusing them of misguidance in belief and action.” He further said: “They moreover repeatedly accuse the people of Syria and the Free Syrian Army (FSA) of disbelief (Kufr).” The Sheikh also argued that ISIS cannot be theoretically classified as Khawārij although practically this may be the case since they throw around accusations of disbelief without evidence and without understanding the gravity of such a charge. Rather, they may indict someone as a disbeliever merely on the grounds of disagreeing with them. Many of them believe that the people of Syria are originally apostates before creating justifications to this effect, raising weapons in their faces for the most trivial of matters.

Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Tarifi:
Sheikh al-Tarifi is a Researcher in the Ministry of Islamic Affairs in Riyadh. The Sheikh is deeply erudite in the sciences of Islam, known for his profound ability to retrieve evidences and issue meticulous verdicts. Among his teachers are Sheikh Abdul Aziz b. Abdullah b. Baz, Faqih Abdullah b. Abdul Aziz b. Aqeel and Sheikh Muhammad b. al-Hasan al-Shanqeeti. The sheikh has an extensive number of printed works.[12]

He states:
“It is impermissible for anyone to make his group or party a milestone against which loyalty and hostility are measured, such that he believes that allegiance and leadership should belong to him exclusively. Whoever believes that sole allegiance applies to him (or his party) from amongst all Muslims, then upon him apply the words of Allāh: “Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad salla Allāh ‘alayh wasalam) have no concern in them in the least.”[13]“ The Sheikh added: “it is incorrect that while in a state of fighting and factions that one group should request individual and general allegiance and all that it entails. The allegiance is to the Jihād, constancy, patience and reform. It is incorrect that one individual who leads a particular faction to call himself Amīr al-Mu’minīn (the leader of the Believers), rather he should call himself the leader of the army, the battalion or the battle. General leadership is determined by Shūrā (consultation) between believers, not for an individual to assume. Titles cause exclusivity that can lead to dispute, conflict, strife and evil… [Therefore], participating with ISIS so long as it does not agree with the law of Allāh, independent of it is impermissible.”

Sheikh Sulaiman b. Nasser al-Alwan:

The Sheikh began pursuing knowledge at the age of fifteen. He has written comprehensive explanations of Hadīth books including Sahīh al-Bukhari, Jāmi’ Abū Issa al-Tirmidhi, Sunan Abī Dāwūd, Muwata’ Mālik among many others.[14] He quotes:
“Al-Baghdadi is not the Khalīfah of the Muslims for him to do whatever he pleases; rather he is a leader of a faction. Requesting a pledge of allegiance, killing those who refuse is the action of an aggressor, not the action of a person of good and righteousness.” He further said: “If his own leader does not agree with his actions, how can he expect allegiance from others?”

Sheikh Muhammad b. Salih al-Munajjid:


Sheikh Mohammad al-Munajjid is a renowned scholar of Islam with an array of recognised works (including IslamQA.com). His teachers include Sheikh Abdul Aziz b. Abdullah b. Baz, Sheikh Abdullah b. Abdul Rahman b. Jibreen and Sheikh Abdul Rahman al-Barrak. He is currently the imām of the Mosque of Omar b. Abdul Aziz al-Khobar.[15] He says:
“If a group thinks, for example, that it has established the Islamic state, its leader is the ‘Leader of the Believers’, that he should be listened to and obeyed by everyone, that anyone not under his command has rebelled against him, that [this ‘state’] has the authority to draw up borders, elect leaders over towns, that it has authority over public wealth, petrol, wheat and so on, that others should forcefully submit to them while they can stop whoever they want, that they have the sole authority of establishing Islamic courts and judges and that every court besides theirs is void, it has deviated. This will no doubt create competition over control of regions and eventually lead to a great Fitnah and bloodshed.”

Sheikh Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi:

Sheikh Muhammad al-Maqdisi is considered the guide of the ‘Jihadist Salafist’ movement in Jordan. His name is Issam Barqawi but is famously known as Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi. Far from siding with ISIS,[16] he says in a letter to the Mujāhidīn of Syria after hearing of ISIS and their behaviour with other fighters:
“…and we do not feel ashamed to declare that we are free from the actions of those who dare spill the blood of Muslims whoever they may be.” He further added: “How can you be expected to accommodate all Syrians including Christians and other sects [if you cannot even accommodate other Muslims]?”

Dr. Hassan Saleh b. Hamid:

Dr. Hassan Saleh has a PhD in the principles of Fiqh and Sharī’ah, he is the Director of the Institute of Higher Islamic Education at the Umm Al-Qura University in Makkah and is a Member of the (Islamic) Advisory council.[17] He says:
“No one going to Syria to fight is excused to be part of al-Baghadi’s faction for even a moment… they are a faction that brings Fitnah, whenever they are called to a court for religious arbitration they turn away and whenever a truce is declared, they reignite the war.”

Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Fawzan:

Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Fawzan is a member of the Council for Human Rights, a Professor in Islamic Jurisprudence and the Head of the Department of Comparative Jurisprudence at the Islamic University of Imam Muhammad b. Saud in Saudi Arabia.[18] He says:
“ISIS is a rogue, external criminal organisation. Whoever knows of what afflicted us in Iraq and Afghanistan and the blood that was spilled unjustly at the hands of some ignorant individuals in our nation will understand the gravity of what is happening in Syria.”

Dr. Abdul Karim Bakkar:

Dr. Abdul Karim Bakkar is one of the leading authors in the field of education and Islamic thought, who seeks to provide a deep-rooted analysis into matters concerning Islamic civilisation, renaissance and Da’wah. He has more than 40 books in this area. Dr. Abdul Karim Bakkar is a member of the Advisory Board for the Islam Today magazine (Riyadh).[19] He says:
“I met a number of students of knowledge and Islamic jurists returning from Syria. I swear by the One besides whom there is no god that the only thing they spoke about were the repulsive actions of ISIS and their crimes. ISIS and the Assad regime are two faces of one evil.”

Dr. Shafi al-Ajmi:
Dr. Al-Ajmi sought knowledge under the supervision of Sheikh Muhammad b. Saalih and Sheikh Yahya al-Yahya. He studied at the University of Imam Muhammad b. Saud and is now the Imām of al-Ghazali Mosque in Kuwait.[20]He quotes:

“I have not heard of a single scholar inside or outside of Syria who has praised this faction, had good suspicion of them or defended them, rather they have unanimously agreed that they are aggressors. Al-Baghdadi’s aim, since entering Syria is to weaken the fighters and he has indeed weakened al-Nusra Front and Ahraar al-Shaam and continues to do so.”

Sheikh Abu Basir al-Tartusi:

Sheikh Abu Basir al-Tartusi has played the effective role of the Syrian revolution’s Mufti. It is said that Sheikh al-Tartusi was the first Arab fighter to travel to Afghanistan in 1981, accompanying Abdullah Azzam on one of his trips. He has authored many books and is the founder of several of the revolution’s coordination groups.[21] He says:
“The group known as ISIS are from the fanatical Khawārij, rather they have surpassed the Khawārij in many of their characteristics and actions, combining between fanaticism, aggression, hostility and shedding inviolable blood.” He further said: “We call upon all sincere individuals who have been fooled by them while still with this misguided group to severe their ties with it and to declare their freedom from it and its actions.”

Sheikh Abdullah Saad:

The Sheikh and notable Muhadtih Abdullah b. Abdul Rahman b. Mohammed Al-Saad Al-Mutairi is one of those at the forefront of 20th and 21st century Muslim scholars. His teachers include, Sheikh Abdul Aziz b. Baz, Sheikh Mohammed b. Saalih and Sheikh Abdullah b. Abdul Rahman al-Jibreen. He has authored tens of books and has explanations of Bukhāri, Sunan Abī Dāwūd, Jāmi’ al-Tirmithi and others.[22]He says:
“I plea to whoever joined this faction (ISIS) to leave it and move away from it, and for its leaders to return to the truth and to repent to Allāh from the grave mistakes they have fallen into…”

Sheikh Abdullah al-Mahiseny:

Sheikh al-Mahiseny is a specialist in Islamic Jurisprudence, acquiring a PhD in Comparative Fiqh in the subject: “Rulings Concerning War Refugees in Islamic Jurisprudence.”[23] He says:
“By Allāh, I have never witnessed the scholars who speak about matters of Jihād agree on criticising and opposing a Muslim movement as they have agreed on condemning ISIS.” Sheikh Mahiseny concluded by saying: “I implore you by Allāh O Baghdadi to allow a general Islamic court mediate to uphold the injunctions of Allāh.”

Sheikh Adnan Mohammed al-Aroor:

Sheikh Adnan al-Aroor is currently the Director of Research and Publishing in Riyadh. He grew up seeking knowledge in Syria under several scholars including Sheikh al-Albani and Sheikh b. Baz.[24] He is one of the most notable scholarly icons of the Syrian revolution and has a multitude of published works. Sheikh al-Aroor says, directing his question at ISIS:
“Did Allāh set conditions that must be met before accepting that the Qur’ān arbitrate [in the affairs of difference]? Then where did you get these conditions [that you set] from? Why do you leave military fronts such as Homs and dedicate your efforts to the areas near the Turkish borders? … Who are the people of religious authority (ahl al-hal wal-’aqd) who you consulted before establishing your ‘state’? Do you aim to overthrow the sectarian dictator or to fight others [who want to achieve this]? … What is your Islamic proof that justifies your pledge to someone unknown?”[25] He furthermore states: “ISIS are either Khawārij or infiltrated by the [Syrian] regime. It is composed of three groups of people: brutal Takfīrīs, wicked infiltrators and people deceived by them.”

The Scholars of Aleppo Front:

The Scholars of Aleppo Front issued a statement encouraging the sincere members of ISIS to leave this faction and join the legitimate revolutionary forces in Syria for the crime that has been perpetrated by this group, including:
Accusations of disbelief (takfīr), their shedding of inviolable blood without a second thought, kidnappings and documented armed robberies of weapons and ammunition from other rebel factions, their refusal to allow the Sharī’ah to arbitrate between them and the other factions and sowing the seeds of discord between fighers. ISIS’ takfīr sometimes extend to the entire population of Syria. This includes takfīr boldly levelled at the Free Syrian Army, accusing Ahraar al-Shaam that they are misguided ‘Surūrīs’ and that al-Nusra Front have defied their alleged ‘Khalīfah’.[26]

A Joint Statement of 47 Scholars in Saudi Arabia including Al-Ghunaymaan, Al-‘Umar, Al-Mahmoud and Al-Jalali Al-Mahmoud

The joint statement asserted that it is impermissible and of tyranny for one faction to impose itself as the only holder of legitimacy and that it is necessary that all other groups pledge allegiance to it without consulting the Muslims, otherwise they become of the Khawārij and their blood becomes permissible. It argued that this is the main reason for divisions and internal fighting. Sheikh Hamoud b. Ali al-Omari added: “The reality of the matter is, every drop of blood shed between the (rebel) factions in Syria is due to al-Baghdadi’s refusal to allow the Sharī’ah to arbitrate while implementing his own innovated Sharī’ah.”

There is no act, the punishment for which has been mentioned more sternly than that of killing a believer intentionally where a collection of five severe retributions have been listed:
“But whoever kills a believer intentionally – his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allāh has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment.”[27]

Conclusion

Above are only some of the verdicts issued against ISIS by Muslim scholars. Such an agreement between scholars, analysts and intellectuals across the board should shake the heart of any individual who has participated in hampering the revolutionary effort while imposing an innovated ideology on its people. This neither pleases Allāh nor is it to the betterment of Syria. Syrians are in no need of further repression. Sincere individuals who have joined ISIS believing it endorses the true purpose of Islam should rush to change course and avoid further gambling with their permanent abode, and with a Syrian future that balances on a knife’s edge.

Source: Islam21c | Articulating Islam in the 21st Century

Notes:

This article is presented for information purposes, and is not an official view of MRDF or Islam21c.
[1] Growing fears over Britons radicalised in Syrian conflict - Crime - UK - The Independent

[2] A Plea from Syria | Islam21c

[3] http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...-in-Syria.html

[4] Concerns for five aid workers taken away in Syria · TheJournal.ie

[5] http://eldorar.net/science/article/9246

[6] http://www.almokhtsar.com/news/ Title/author: أقوال العلماء والدعاة في داعش / إبراهيم بن عبد الرحمن التركي

[7] http://www.islam21c.com/politics/ass...isils-actions/

[8] http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-isl...orists/5365981

[9] http://syriageneva2.org/?p=242&lang=en

[10] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27947343

[11] http://aseft-alshamal.org/?p=1107

[12] http://ar.islamway.net/scholar/1223

[13] Al-Qur’ān 6:159

[14] http://ar.islamway.net/scholar/245

[15] http://ar.islamway.net/scholar/44

[16] http://www.aljazeera.net/news/pages/...5-972bccf35cdc

[17] http://ibnhomaid.af.org.sa/

[18] https://twitter.com/Abdulazizfawzan

[19] http://www.drbakkar.com/index.php?op...d=55&Itemid=53

[20] http://islam-call.com/authors/v/id/1228/

[21] http://www.al-akhbar.com/node/201838

[22] http://www.alssad.com/publish/article_39.shtml

[23] http://mhesne.com/index.php?option=c...=59&Itemid=121

[24] https://www.paldf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=614220

[25] http://albadee.net/news/12989/

[26] http://halabnews.com/news/42813

[27] Qur’ān 4:93

DISCLAIMER: All material found on Islam21c.com is for free and is for information purposes only. All material may be freely copied & shared on condition that it is clearly attributed to Islam21c.com [hyperlinked] as the original source. The views expressed on this site or on any linked sites do not necessarily represent those of Islam21c.com[/QUOTE]
Reply

Scimitar
03-28-2017, 05:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
I would like to live in an Islamic State under sharia law, only not sure if this khilafah is valid or not.
We all would, but I am asking you what you consider as evidence of ISIS being khawarij?

Scimi

EDIT: Just saw bro Muhammad's post above.

Nothing further to add.
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
I don't think you will get to this guy. Back in 2014 when they just had risen, i was skeptic. In that time i just learned about prisoners captured during war by Muslims and what rights they(prisoners) had over the Muslims. I saw a video of ISIS guys had captured i believe some Shia-Muslims and i saw one ISIS guy hitting a prisoner. I said immediately THIS IS NOT ISLAM.. what he just did. With that i had taken one step away from them. The following months they BY THEIR actions showed more of their actions that have nothing to do with Islam, but more against Islamic teachings. We are soon going to enter the third year of them becoming a fact. The person who has not already branded them as khawarij, for sure is misguided and full of hatred. This guy i also have much doubts you will able to convince him either way. Especially the ones that have hatred inside them, will use excuses to pardon somebody's action although those actions are very clearly AGAINST Islam.

I even have the feeling that ISIS for sure must be a Zionists creation. As to Muslims we know of the end times and that we must join the black flags with Mahdi and such. So they know also, however this Zionists creation thinking all the Muslims are sheeps and with that majority can be wiped out. However they plan and Allah plans and Allah is the best of planners. With ISIS i have seen rather cleansing of the Muslims from hypocrites and extremists. Also Muslims who were just culture-Muslims many have become more practicing and studying the deen.

Anyways, it is futile i believe with this guy, if he himself has not searched for the signs of the khawarij and what they do all this time. Is either already a ISIS member trying to gather people to join him, or some spy to trap Muslims and do something against this forum. As on this forum much is being discussed. if this forum is brought down they will off course ask for all the data to browse through.
This is just your opinion.

Islam means submission, it means that we hear and obey.
We dont decide what is good and what is wrong, only Allah can decide that.
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 06:11 PM
Muhammad
, ​jazakAllahu khair
Reply

Simple_Person
03-28-2017, 06:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
This is just your opinion.

Islam means submission, it means that we hear and obey.
We dont decide what is good and what is wrong, only Allah can decide that.
Indeed is my opinion, however if my opinion did not contain some logic or truth, one shouldn't even listen to it. However that is not the case.

- If you were NOT able to use internet and thus not able to search for the signs of the khawarij and compare them..i would say..you have a excuse. However you are using this forum just fine, so that's not it.
- If you have been living under a rock for the almost last 3 years, i would say you have a excuse, however you already saying "khawarij" and ISIS as you KNOW of their signs apparently. In other words, logic tells me you already know of ISIS and khawarij and have looked up their signs. The person that already knows the signs and those signs clearly are the ones, yet wanting to further discuss this..means the disease is in your heart, not in your mind.

So the question is what do we say about you?

- You are already a ISIS-member trying to gather people for your insane and devilish cause.
- You are one of those spies that work for those secret agencies and try to create chaos on this forum to have a excuse to bring this forum down. Or even secret agencies gather some ignorant Muslims on this forum and use them as bait against other Muslims.

My advice to the admins to ban you immediately, but have this topic open for other people to see and read as what we already have said as there is nothing more to discuss.

Conclusion:
- ISIS = Khawarij based on enough proof (read comments)
- You can criticize those so called "Islamic leaders" in the Middle East as they themselves are acting like slaves of CIA, Mossad and such.
Reply

Serinity
03-28-2017, 06:44 PM
:salam:

Learn History people, Read the Seerah of the Prophet :saws:

I have yet to read in the Seerah what ISIS does.

I've seen logic and reason from every decision made by the Prophet :saws: and there was not a thing I read in the Seerah, except it increased my love for the Prophet :saws:

So tell me, what ISIS is not doing wrong? Aren't they killing left and right, civlians, etc, without any form of Shariah Counsel?

ISIS could well be a Zionist group trying to defame Islam.

Allahu alam.
Reply

Scimitar
03-28-2017, 06:47 PM
I was thinking about which khujoor to eat, then I remembered, the word khujoor sounds like khawarij, is there any proof both are not related?

This to me is what the OP sounds like.

Sorry, just had to.

Scimi
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

Learn History people, Read the Seerah of the Prophet :saws:

I have yet to read in the Seerah what ISIS does.

I've seen logic and reason from every decision made by the Prophet :saws: and there was not a thing I read in the Seerah, except it increased my love for the Prophet :saws:

So tell me, what ISIS is not doing wrong? Aren't they killing left and right, civlians, etc, without any form of Shariah Counsel?

ISIS could well be a Zionist group trying to defame Islam.

Allahu alam.
Do you know what is offensive jihad?
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Serinity
03-28-2017, 06:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Do you know what is offensive jihad?
Yes, why you ask??
Reply

Scimitar
03-28-2017, 06:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Do you know what is offensive jihad?
You clearly don't if you need proof that ISIS is Khawarij.

Asking questions like this, are gonna expose your stupidity further.

Scimi
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Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 06:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
You clearly don't if you need proof that ISIS is Khawarij.

Asking questions like this, are gonna expose your stupidity further.

Scimi
And again, what is your proof that ISIS makes takfeer on major sins?
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 06:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
Yes, why you ask??
Did the prophet pbuh fight those who disbelieve or not?
Reply

Scimitar
03-28-2017, 07:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
And again, what is your proof that ISIS makes takfeer on major sins?
I asked you twice already what you consider as "evidence"??? and you've not replied.

This shows all of us that your line of inquiry is not genuine. But rather, you seek to cause trouble here with your ignorant statements and refusal to entertain my questions.

I don't even believe you are a Muslim, because no Muslim I know identifies with ISIS simply on the basis of living under shariah law. And ISIS do not know shariah if it hits them in the face - they've ignored all the scholars from across the world and don't even have a scholar among them.

And YES, you're VERY ignorant considering that four nations in the world have shariah law as their system and khilafa simply means "leadership" and so - you will find leadership in all four nations - guess what? Syria and Iraq are not from those four.

You seem to like the terrorists and this is evident in your appraisal of them and refusal to entertain Muhammad's proof's which I also agree with.

So yeah, rise to the occasion - WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER AS PROOF/EVIDENCE?

;)

Scimi
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 07:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I asked you twice already what you consider as "evidence"??? and you've not replied.

This shows all of us that your line of inquiry is not genuine. But rather, you seek to cause trouble here with your ignorant statements and refusal to entertain my questions.

I don't even believe you are a Muslim, because no Muslim I know identifies with ISIS simply on the basis of living under shariah law.

And YES, you're VERY ignorant considering that four nations in the world have shariah law as their system and khilafa simply means "leadership" and so - you will find leadership in all four nations - guess what? Syria and Iraq are not from those four.

You seem to like the terrorists and this is evident in your appraisal of them and refusal to entertain Muhammad's proof's which I also agree with.

So yeah, rise to the occasion - WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER AS PROOF/EVIDENCE?

;)

Scimi
Did you just make takfeer on me?
Reply

Scimitar
03-28-2017, 07:08 PM
No, I said I don;t believe you are a Muslim - that's between you and Allah.

And now you answer this question:

What do you consider as proof/evidence?

This is now the fourth time I am asking you.

Scimi
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 07:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
No, I said I don;t believe you are a Muslim - that's between you and Allah.

And now you answer this question:

What do you consider as proof/evidence?

This is now the fourth time I am asking you.

Scimi
Of course I am a Muslim. A Muslim and proud

The Prophet pbuh said: No man accuses another man of being a sinner, or of being a kafir, but it reflects back on him if the other is not as he called him.'' (Bukhari, Book of Ethics; Book 78, ch. 44)
Reply

Scimitar
03-28-2017, 07:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

What do you consider as proof/evidence?
This is now the 5th time I am asking you.

Scimi
Reply

Abdullah910
03-28-2017, 07:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
No, I said I don;t believe you are a Muslim - that's between you and Allah.

And now you answer this question:

What do you consider as proof/evidence?

This is now the fourth time I am asking you.

Scimi
You are the one who claims they are khawaarij, not me. So bring your proofs if you are truthful.
You cant just quote some scholars, thats not enough.
Reply

AabiruSabeel
03-28-2017, 07:22 PM
It is not for some online forum-goers to decide who belongs to khawarij or not. The scholars have spoken and you can find their words in post#21 above.

وَإِنْ أَدْرِي لَعَلَّهُ فِتْنَةٌ لَّكُمْ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَىٰ حِينٍ
And I know not; perhaps it is a trial for you and enjoyment for a time." [Al-Anbiyaa: 111]


:threadclo
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