/* */

PDA

View Full Version : How do you react/feel to the suffering/deaths of non-muslims?



TDWT
04-07-2017, 02:07 PM
This is related to a thread of mine I posted, but when a muslim dies/suffering, I guess there is solace that paradise is for them, but what is the case for non-muslims? Again, something I am still struggling with actually?
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Scimitar
04-07-2017, 02:37 PM
They are not your problem.

Bro TWDT, you act like a modern day lost cause lately.

On the day of judgement - you will run away from your Mother and Father and try to save yourself.

You won't care for even your loved ones. Yet here you are - making a case for non believers? :D I find that real entertaining.

Seriously bro,

FIX UP.

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 02:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
They are not your problem.

Bro TWDT, you act like a modern day lost cause lately.

On the day of judgement - you will run away from your Mother and Father and try to save yourself.

You won't care for even your loved ones. Yet here you are - making a case for non believers? :D I find that real entertaining.

Seriously bro,

FIX UP.

Scimi
Listen man, hear me out. When you see all these muslims dying in syria or myanmar, they are your problem, right? When you see them suffering, you can find solace that they die muslim and go to paradise, right?
Reply

Muslimah inshal
04-07-2017, 03:09 PM
They are the enemies of Allah and Muhammad (saw) . Some of them know the truth but still don't want to convert
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Scimitar
04-07-2017, 03:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Listen man, hear me out. When you see all these muslims dying in syria or myanmar, they are your problem, right? When you see them suffering, you can find solace that they die muslim and go to paradise, right?
They are my concern but not my problem. Allah has given the suffering Muslims of Burma and Palestine etc the best of rewards in the hereafter and I wish I were in their place - perspective is everything.

I'm concerned that they are suffering this life while they get the next with ease while I have ease in this life and will be judged due to it.

What's your take? Forget yourself and worry about things you got no control over?

Instead how about trying to recognise the flaw in your emotion led ideas about non Muslims?

They are not your concern, honestly - take your concern to them directly and see how you are met with mockery because you care. You are attempting to care for people who do not care about their soul... why are you wasting your thinking time over them?

It just doesn't make any sense to me as a Muslim.

Scimi
Reply

czgibson
04-07-2017, 03:34 PM
Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
They are not your concern, honestly - take your concern to them directly and see how you are met with mockery because you care. You are attempting to care for people who do not care about their soul... why are you wasting your thinking time over them?

It just doesn't make any sense to me as a Muslim.
All human life is equally valuable. Denying this perpetuates hatred and division.

Peace
Reply

Serinity
04-07-2017, 03:44 PM
:salam:

Why would you care for someone, who doesn't care about himself? Hm....

Anyways, find solace in that Allah :swt: is the most Merciful, and that you will leave your mother, father, brothers, on the Day of Judgment.

Allahu alam.
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 04:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
They are my concern but not my problem. Allah has given the suffering Muslims of Burma and Palestine etc the best of rewards in the hereafter and I wish I were in their place - perspective is everything.

I'm concerned that they are suffering this life while they get the next with ease while I have ease in this life and will be judged due to it.

What's your take? Forget yourself and worry about things you got no control over?

Instead how about trying to recognise the flaw in your emotion led ideas about non Muslims?

They are not your concern, honestly - take your concern to them directly and see how you are met with mockery because you care. You are attempting to care for people who do not care about their soul... why are you wasting your thinking time over them?

It just doesn't make any sense to me as a Muslim.

Scimi
A few points:

1. Ok, can you clarify? So muslims suffering in are your concern not your problem but non-muslims suffering are not your concern and problem, correct?

2. What do you mean, no control?
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 04:16 PM
Regarding point 1) correct

Regarding point 2) you have no control over their choices - they have free will and it falls under the will of Allah who let's them be disbelievers in Islamic monotheism
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 04:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



All human life is equally valuable. Denying this perpetuates hatred and division.

Peace
I don't deny that - but caring for a people who do not care for your concern is wasteful.

This does not promote hatred - just indifference - that's the difference.

To them be their way

To me be mine

Scimi
Reply

Simple_Person
04-07-2017, 04:37 PM
If a person of another faith dies, being atheist, agnostic, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian you name it.. all i hope for them is that they have died upon believing in 1 Creator, without doing shirk. Have respect for them and their burial, as they were also children of Adam(as) but that's it nothing more.
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 06:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I don't deny that - but caring for a people who do not care for your concern is wasteful.

This does not promote hatred - just indifference - that's the difference.

To them be their way

To me be mine

Scimi
1. Wait, so you are worried about suffer muslims because they care for your concern?

2. Second, the issue is, how can I just turn off my compassion for suffering human beings just because of their faith? When I do this, I feel like I am trivializing their suffering and am just like 'oh tough luck' to it.
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 07:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
If a person of another faith dies, being atheist, agnostic, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian you name it.. all i hope for them is that they have died upon believing in 1 Creator, without doing shirk. Have respect for them and their burial, as they were also children of Adam(as) but that's it nothing more.
Ridiculous.

Hindu's Buddhists, Agnostics, Jews, Christians, you name it - do not believe that Muhammad pbuh is the final messenger of Allah - and so - you would be wrong.

The ticket to jannah is what? Shahadah. Declaration Of Faith - and those groups do not declare what we do.

So keep wishing in that bubble of yours lol.

How can you write such drivel bro? :D

Scimi
Reply

azc
04-07-2017, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
This is related to a thread of mine I posted, but when a muslim dies/suffering, I guess there is solace that paradise is for them, but what is the case for non-muslims? Again, something I am still struggling with actually?
seeing the janaza of non Muslim molana yusuf kandhalwi rh, 2nd ameer or tablighi jamat would weep that he had died without iman and it's our fault for not reaching him dawah of iman and Islam.
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
seeing the janaza of non Muslim molana yusuf kandhalwi rh, 2nd ameer or tablighi jamat would weep that he had died without iman and it's our fault for not reaching him dawah of iman and Islam.
I have no idea what you just wrote because it makes no sense.

You need to rephrase lol

Scimi
Reply

azc
04-07-2017, 07:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Listen man, hear me out. When you see all these muslims dying in syria or myanmar, they are your problem, right? When you see them suffering, you can find solace that they die muslim and go to paradise, right?
if you are really worried for them then start giving your friend dawah of Islam, if they accept, good, if they don't heed, let them go, you've done your duty
Reply

azc
04-07-2017, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah inshal
They are the enemies of Allah and Muhammad (saw) . Some of them know the truth but still don't want to convert
no, every non Muslim is not enemy
Reply

azc
04-07-2017, 08:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,All human life is equally valuable. Denying this perpetuates hatred and division.Peace
agree but those who are submissive and obedient to creator of this universe will be given a comfortable life in hereafter... you believe it or not, is your personal matter but as soon as the heart beats stop the reality will be before eyes.
Reply

*charisma*
04-07-2017, 08:04 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
This is related to a thread of mine I posted, but when a muslim dies/suffering, I guess there is solace that paradise is for them, but what is the case for non-muslims? Again, something I am still struggling with actually?
We do not know who goes to jannah or hellfire, EVEN IF they are Muslim. Muslims get a taste of jahannum too, don't they? Or is the mention of jahannum only for play? We're all sinners here.

Secondly as a Muslim one HAS TO have the belief that Allah is the MOST JUST, MOST WISE.
YOU and anyone else will NEVER come close to His attributions. Understand that, internalize it, and never forget it. So whatever empathy or sadness you feel for someone else, it means nothing compared with Allah's attributions and His closeness with His slaves. With that being said, a person's deeds and faith is between them and their Lord. Therefore, it's NONE of your business what happens after they die. They are with their Lord, you cannot and will never be involved in Allah's judgement of another soul.

If you worry about nonbelievers going to jahannum, then do what you can while they are alive. That's incumbent on all of us: to give dawah. But you can't spread the message if you're in this little cloud of yours where your worries are the afterlife of someone else and not your own. You will not even think of anyone else comes judgement day. You'd be blessed if you're still sane.
Reply

azc
04-07-2017, 08:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Regarding point 1) correctRegarding point 2) you have no control over their choices - they have free will and it falls under the will of Allah who let's them be disbelievers in Islamic monotheism
but we assigned to perform the duty and onus as a daee as well
Reply

azc
04-07-2017, 08:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
If a person of another faith dies, being atheist, agnostic, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian you name it.. all i hope for them is that they have died upon believing in 1 Creator, without doing shirk. Have respect for them and their burial, as they were also children of Adam(as) but that's it nothing more.
yes iman is essential to succeed in hereafter
Reply

azc
04-07-2017, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
1. Wait, so you are worried about suffer muslims because they care for your concern?2. Second, the issue is, how can I just turn off my compassion for suffering human beings just because of their faith? When I do this, I feel like I am trivializing their suffering and am just like 'oh tough luck' to it.
then what do you want. Non Muslims should be suffered in hereafter as well..?
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
but we assigned to perform the duty and onus as a daee as well
You don't choose their faith, they do.

BESIDES - Giving dawah is not the same as wondering why they are going to hell is it? :D

anyone wondering why non Muslims will go to hell is clearly in no position to give dawah lol, they need to educate themselves first in case they misrepresent Islam ;)

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum



We do not know who goes to jannah or hellfire, EVEN IF they are Muslim. Muslims get a taste of jahannum too, don't they? Or is the mention of jahannum only for play? We're all sinners here.

Secondly as a Muslim one HAS TO have the belief that Allah is the MOST JUST, MOST WISE.
YOU and anyone else will NEVER come close to His attributions. Understand that, internalize it, and never forget it. So whatever empathy or sadness you feel for someone else, it means nothing compared with Allah's attributions and His closeness with His slaves. With that being said, a person's deeds and faith is between them and their Lord. Therefore, it's NONE of your business what happens after they die. They are with their Lord, you cannot and will never be involved in Allah's judgement of another soul.

If you worry about nonbelievers going to jahannum, then do what you can while they are alive. That's incumbent on all of us: to give dawah. But you can't spread the message if you're in this little cloud of yours where your worries are the afterlife of someone else and not your own. You will not even think of anyone else comes judgement day. You'd be blessed if you're still sane.
I see that but in the end, a muslim will get to spend eternity in heaven, correct while a non-muslim suffers, that is the issue.

Second, what do you mean by most wise? Are you saying that for example if someone goes to hell, I can't object even if I feel sadness for them? Is that what you were getting at.
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
You don't choose their faith, they do.

BESIDES - Giving dawah is not the same as wondering why they are going to hell is it? :D

anyone wondering why non Muslims will go to hell is clearly in no position to give dawah lol, they need to educate themselves first in case they misrepresent Islam ;)

Scimi
Let me rephrase. Earlier as I mentioned before, suffering muslims get to enter heaven as an ease for their pain.

See, I feel for suffering muslims but also, I feel for suffering non-muslims as there are many of those who suffer and honestly, I feel cruel if I think that they suffer both in this life and the next(and forever mind you)

does that make sense
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Let me rephrase. Earlier as I mentioned before, suffering muslims get to enter heaven as an ease for their pain.

See, I feel for suffering muslims but also, I feel for suffering non-muslims as there are many of those who suffer and honestly, I feel cruel if I think that they suffer both in this life and the next(and forever mind you)

does that make sense
DO you believe God is not merciful?

Is that your problem?

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
DO you believe God is not merciful?

Is that your problem?

Scimi
What do you mean?
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
What do you mean?
Do you believe that Allah is not merciful?

It's a simple question. And a closed one. I don't require an explanation. Just a YES or NO answer.

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 09:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Do you believe that Allah is not merciful?

It's a simple question. And a closed one. I don't require an explanation. Just a YES or NO answer.

Scimi

No, god says he is merciful but how does that answer my question?
Reply

azc
04-07-2017, 09:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
You don't choose their faith, they do.BESIDES - Giving dawah is not the same as wondering why they are going to hell is it? :Danyone wondering why non Muslims will go to hell is clearly in no position to give dawah lol, they need to educate themselves first in case they misrepresent Islam ;)Scimi
and if they don't want to educate themselves, then, don't we have any responsibility..?
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 09:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
No, god says he is merciful but how does that answer my question?
You know God is merciful but it seems you do not know how to believe it ;)

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 09:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
You know God is merciful but it seems you do not know how to believe it ;)

Scimi
Yes, but it still says that non-muslims go to hell(except those who have not heard of it, I know), so again, how does this answer my question?
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 09:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
and if they don't want to educate themselves, then, don't we have any responsibility..?
The only responsibility we have with non Muslims, is to treat them as we wish to be treated and to give them dawah. But there comes a point when you have to move to the next person, a smart daee doesn't waste his time on lost causes.

As for the Muslims who have a misplaced concern, they are in no position to do anything. Except educate their opinion, so they do not think ignorantly. Once they are sufficiently fortified with knowledge, they can nurture that concern more pragmatically, with dawah, instead of lamenting over things they do not understand ;)

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 09:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Yes, but it still says that non-muslims go to hell(except those who have not heard of it, I know), so again, how does this answer my question?
Your questions have been answered, it is you who is unable to grasp them, this is your issue and you have to deal with it. There are massive ironies in your statements bro. And the shame is, you can't see them even though they've been pointed out.

I can't help you any more than I already have.

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 09:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Your questions have been answered, it is you who is unable to grasp them, this is your issue and you have to deal with it. There are massive ironies in your statements bro. And the shame is, you can't see them even though they've been pointed out.

I can't help you any more than I already have.

Scimi
Well, the answer you gave me was that non-muslims deserve to enter the hellfire due to their disbelief, correct?

Second, what ironies are there in my statement? Like what?
Reply

Scimitar
04-07-2017, 09:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Well, the answer you gave me was that non-muslims deserve to enter the hellfire due to their disbelief, correct?
Absolutely - but remember, this is a GENERAL STATEMENT. I'm sure there will be exceptions, because Allah knows what hearts contain even if people do not. Who knows who is secretly Muslim? And who is secretly Kafir? Allah. not you, not I.

Nothing is black and white - read the Qur'an more. Those black and white pages paint the full spectrum of colours which portend to beneficial knowledge.

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Second, what ironies are there in my statement? Like what?
Oh now you're asking me to nit pick - which I already have across this thread. Don't make me copy paste - just re read through this thread a few dozen times with contemplation, and in sha Allah, something will snap and you'll have that "eureka" moment.

Scimi
Reply

*charisma*
04-07-2017, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
I see that but in the end, a muslim will get to spend eternity in heaven, correct while a non-muslim suffers, that is the issue.
I don't see the issue to be honest because it's in Allah's hands not yours. That means, YOU don't know anyone's soul and whether they are deserving of hellfire or not, so you can't really feel bad about something you don't know. You act like you know, but really you don't.

Second, what do you mean by most wise? Are you saying that for example if someone goes to hell, I can't object even if I feel sadness for them? Is that what you were getting at.
You really can't. Once they are dead, they're dead. You can't do anything about their judgement with ALlah and it's not your business to do anything about it either.
Reply

TDWT
04-07-2017, 09:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
I don't see the issue to be honest because it's in Allah's hands not yours. That means, YOU don't know anyone's soul and whether they are deserving of hellfire or not, so you can't really feel bad about something you don't know. You act like you know, but really you don't.



You really can't. Once they are dead, they're dead. You can't do anything about their judgement with ALlah and it's not your business to do anything about it either.
OK, on your first point, that argument doesn't seem strong to me. If that is the case, then why do you pray that the suffering muslims go to afterlife or say things like, hope they enter paradise or feel happy that they enter heaven if you don't even know they are muslim or not?
Reply

*charisma*
04-07-2017, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
OK, on your first point, that argument doesn't seem strong to me. If that is the case, then why do you pray that the suffering muslims go to afterlife or say things like, hope they enter paradise or feel happy that they enter heaven if you don't even know they are muslim or not?
Whether it seems strong to you or not doesn't matter. It's how it is.

Making du'a has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Also your question makes no sense, so I can't answer it.
Reply

Search
04-08-2017, 12:57 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Personally, I value all human life. So, to me all human suffering is unjustified in the earth and worth doing something about in the world if we're able to make a difference.

And brother, we've already told you that you're knocking on incorrect doors asking us to give you an answer to the question on judgment in afterlife. We as human beings have no idea of the realm of Divine Judgment and how Allah (God) deals with whom in what way, including our own selves specific to our fates in the afterlife, because all of this knowledge belongs to the Unseen Realm.

What we do can say in general terms to everyone, Muslims and non-Muslims, is to conduct themselves in a just, merciful, and best way as that is the Straight Path of people who have received Allah's Mercy and whom we expect will receive God-willing Allah's mercy before their last breath. And we already should know, remember, and internalize in our hearts and minds and souls that Allah will wrong no creation worth even an atom on Judgment Day as that is Allah's solemn promise in the Qur'an.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
This is related to a thread of mine I posted, but when a muslim dies/suffering, I guess there is solace that paradise is for them, but what is the case for non-muslims? Again, something I am still struggling with actually?
Reply

Simple_Person
04-08-2017, 07:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Ridiculous.

Hindu's Buddhists, Agnostics, Jews, Christians, you name it - do not believe that Muhammad pbuh is the final messenger of Allah - and so - you would be wrong.

The ticket to jannah is what? Shahadah. Declaration Of Faith - and those groups do not declare what we do.

So keep wishing in that bubble of yours lol.

How can you write such drivel bro? :D

Scimi
Well among people there are people who do things, but really don't believe what they are doing. For example in Mecca when the Muslims already migrated to Medina there were Muslims among the Mushriks, however as a Muslim you could not see who is Muslim and who is not. Only Allah knows the condition of their heart.

So also for me even if somebody is among the Hindu's, Allah knows best if he truly only believes in Allah (ie One Creator without imagines, without statues etc.). So i always hope that he has died in such a state.

We also know that in only three cases a Muslim may lie. One being if his life depends on it might he speak the truth and be killed over it. There are groups, for example as a Kurd myself we have Yazidi's. These guys are insane. It is prohibited for a female wanting to marry a Muslim and thus convert to Islam as majority of the Kurds are Muslim, they REALLY kill for it. So what happened with Yazidi's and ISIS, that ISIS has separated many of them and many of them going to the west..in other words their community(bubble) shattered all over the place, might be even a mercy to the HONEST ones among them. The ones that truly have seen worshiping the elements is no go and Islam or just a Creator (ie with no images, no statues etc) is the true religion. So in the future finally embrace Islam instead or if they have not gotten the whole message leave those Yazidi practices and just believe in One Creator without being killed over it by other Yazidi's.

With that i always are reminded of two ahadith that i have heard a Jewish girl died and the Jews passing by Rasullah(saws) and a shahabi. So Rasullah(saws) stood up out of respect. The shahabi saying, why he stood up and paid respect as it was a Jew. He replying wasn't she also a child of Adam(as)?

Another thing that reminds me of is, when Jibreel (as) asked Rasullah(saws) to tople the village and Rasullah(saws) saying, i was sent as a mercy not as destruction or something like that and maybe their children might accept Islam.

I am sure you know of these two instances as you for sure know more than me.

However in both these cases, it reached my heart so hard that i see much of the world from a different kind of perspective. the Day of Judgement when we all be gathered, the people that i have hoped died as believing in One Creator, will in'sha'Allah enter paradise and we also in'sha'Allah join them in paradise. The other people we also hoped died believing in One Creator without doing shirk, but later on we see on the Day of Judgement they were the munafiq or as real kafirs. That is it. Not feeling any remorse for them.

So feeling empathy towards the ignorant people is better to have than despising them when they have died. Death should rather be a turning point for us. When death has visited a person, we forget everything about that person. Although i must agree with you that there are people among us who openly show to the world they despise Islam, while KNOWING Islam is the truth.

One of the examples if somebody might die and i feel no remorse or think he has died while being ignorant is this guy. He KNOWS what he is saying and preaching are lies. So if you point towards these kind of people saying..what? No i 100% agree with you, i feel nothing towards him if he might die in this state.

Reply

Eric H
04-08-2017, 08:05 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Search;

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Personally, I value all human life. So, to me all human suffering is unjustified in the earth and worth doing something about in the world if we're able to make a difference.
Wise words as always, you will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to Allah.

Blessings,

Eric
Reply

Muslimah inshal
04-08-2017, 08:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Personally, I value all human life. So, to me all human suffering is unjustified in the earth and worth doing something about in the world if we're able to make a difference.

And brother, we've already told you that you're knocking on incorrect doors asking us to give you an answer to the question on judgment in afterlife. We as human beings have no idea of the realm of Divine Judgment and how Allah (God) deals with whom in what way, including our own selves specific to our fates in the afterlife, because all of this knowledge belongs to the Unseen Realm.

What we do can say in general terms to everyone, Muslims and non-Muslims, is to conduct themselves in a just, merciful, and best way as that is the Straight Path of people who have received Allah's Mercy and whom we expect will receive God-willing Allah's mercy before their last breath. And we already should know, remember, and internalize in our hearts and minds and souls that Allah will wrong no creation worth even an atom on Judgment Day as that is Allah's solemn promise in the Qur'an.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Jazaki Allahu Khairan sister Search
Reply

noraina
04-08-2017, 10:14 AM
In the worldly sense, then the suffering of any human being, whatever their faith or lack thereof, is wrong and should be dealt with compassion and humanity. In Islam we are told to have mercy towards animals, remember that hadith of the man who was granted Jannah for giving water to a thirst dog, so how then can we not be merciful towards other humans?

We don't know in what state someone will die. It maybe a non-Muslim we once knew might die in a state of belief while we die in a state of disbelief, astaghfirullah. Only Allah swt knows what is in the hearts - what we need to know as Muslims is that to acquire Jannah we need to believe in Him and Him alone, and in the Prophethood of Muhammad :saws: and become the best human being and Muslim we can become.

When people pull this card out, they forget that Allah swt is inherently Just and Merciful - He would never let an injustice happen and questions like this are doubting that truth. We can't condemn anyone to hell or eternal suffering because we simply have no idea what is in their hearts, and we'll never get anywhere in either our own deen or that of others by trying to work out the workings of or reasons for Allah's judgement.

But while I'm here, I'm going to treat those as I would like to be treated, with understanding and compassion. So even that mangy old cat which hisses at me everyday is going to see the best side of me, and maybe one day she'll actually like me :D.
Reply

Simple_Person
04-08-2017, 12:14 PM
post removed
Understanding comes from Allah and i THINK this understanding comes from Him, when we have reached certain state in our heart. I have had many discussion with all kind of people. I have had discussion with people that you almost could say feel their hatred emanating from their body. These people have witnessed something in their life that they did not agree that it happened and now all engulfed by hatred towards Creator and any person that might not even be religious but a very positive person in general.

I would very much advice many people to have discussion with people of other faiths and even other Muslims. After certain time when pondering about the discussions one has had, you start understand more what is going on and feel less and less sorry for the people who end up in hell fire. As Allah shows you what kind of people they are. I have had also discussions with people of other faiths that are genuinely such good people and i pray to Allah to guide them.

Based on this all i have concluded that humans are not divided by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheist, Agnostics, Hindu's etc. but simply honest and dishonest people.

That TWDT doesn't grasp this concept i have THE FEELING that he is slowly leaning towards kufr as in the sense he might have family members or friends who are close to him or somebody close to him that has died, but have rejected a Creator or in that sense. When i think of that, i immediately think of two people. The uncle of Rasullah(saws) (aboe talib ibn abdul muttalib), that died as a kafir and the son of Prophet Nuh(as) that also died as a kafir.

I have said what i have to say towards TWDT and i guess you have also said what you have to say. Besides that there are enough other people that have tried talking to him.

- Either we lack the right words that makes him ponder, which is very plausible.
- He hasn't lived life to that extend to understand the concept you, me and many other Muslims have come to understand in full.
- As last option i can think of is that Allah is bringing out what he tried to hide. Allah for sure will test us and make it evident that what we say is true or not.

"Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?" Qur'an 29:2
"But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars." Qur'an 29:3

Allah knows best what the exact condition is of his heart and where he is heading towards and if he will die as a Muslim or as one who has disbelieved. I draw the line here as i have tried the best of my abilities.

BTW, it ALMOST looks like as if he is trying to find people who think the same like him. You know when somebody does something and he knows he is wrong, but if he gathers more people that do the same, suddenly he doesn't feel guilty anymore. When i ask you something, you give me a answer and i ask more questions to understand your answer. Thus a discussion can come in to existence which in the end we follow what is the truth. However like you said he doesn't really go in to it. Just feels sorry, but isn't willing to see the answer that is saying the opposite of what he is believing.
Reply

TDWT
04-08-2017, 03:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Understanding comes from Allah and i THINK this understanding comes from Him, when we have reached certain state in our heart. I have had many discussion with all kind of people. I have had discussion with people that you almost could say feel their hatred emanating from their body. These people have witnessed something in their life that they did not agree that it happened and now all engulfed by hatred towards Creator and any person that might not even be religious but a very positive person in general.

I would very much advice many people to have discussion with people of other faiths and even other Muslims. After certain time when pondering about the discussions one has had, you start understand more what is going on and feel less and less sorry for the people who end up in hell fire. As Allah shows you what kind of people they are. I have had also discussions with people of other faiths that are genuinely such good people and i pray to Allah to guide them.

Based on this all i have concluded that humans are not divided by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheist, Agnostics, Hindu's etc. but simply honest and dishonest people.

That TWDT doesn't grasp this concept i have THE FEELING that he is slowly leaning towards kufr as in the sense he might have family members or friends who are close to him or somebody close to him that has died, but have rejected a Creator or in that sense. When i think of that, i immediately think of two people. The uncle of Rasullah(saws) (aboe talib ibn abdul muttalib), that died as a kafir and the son of Prophet Nuh(as) that also died as a kafir.

I have said what i have to say towards TWDT and i guess you have also said what you have to say. Besides that there are enough other people that have tried talking to him.

- Either we lack the right words that makes him ponder, which is very plausible.
- He hasn't lived life to that extend to understand the concept you, me and many other Muslims have come to understand in full.
- As last option i can think of is that Allah is bringing out what he tried to hide. Allah for sure will test us and make it evident that what we say is true or not.

"Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?" Qur'an 29:2
"But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars." Qur'an 29:3

Allah knows best what the exact condition is of his heart and where he is heading towards and if he will die as a Muslim or as one who has disbelieved. I draw the line here as i have tried the best of my abilities.

BTW, it ALMOST looks like as if he is trying to find people who think the same like him. You know when somebody does something and he knows he is wrong, but if he gathers more people that do the same, suddenly he doesn't feel guilty anymore. When i ask you something, you give me a answer and i ask more questions to understand your answer. Thus a discussion can come in to existence which in the end we follow what is the truth. However like you said he doesn't really go in to it. Just feels sorry, but isn't willing to see the answer that is saying the opposite of what he is believing.
Yeah, I have not lived long enough to see the extend.
Reply

TDWT
04-08-2017, 03:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Understanding comes from Allah and i THINK this understanding comes from Him, when we have reached certain state in our heart. I have had many discussion with all kind of people. I have had discussion with people that you almost could say feel their hatred emanating from their body. These people have witnessed something in their life that they did not agree that it happened and now all engulfed by hatred towards Creator and any person that might not even be religious but a very positive person in general.

I would very much advice many people to have discussion with people of other faiths and even other Muslims. After certain time when pondering about the discussions one has had, you start understand more what is going on and feel less and less sorry for the people who end up in hell fire. As Allah shows you what kind of people they are. I have had also discussions with people of other faiths that are genuinely such good people and i pray to Allah to guide them.

Based on this all i have concluded that humans are not divided by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheist, Agnostics, Hindu's etc. but simply honest and dishonest people.

That TWDT doesn't grasp this concept i have THE FEELING that he is slowly leaning towards kufr as in the sense he might have family members or friends who are close to him or somebody close to him that has died, but have rejected a Creator or in that sense. When i think of that, i immediately think of two people. The uncle of Rasullah(saws) (aboe talib ibn abdul muttalib), that died as a kafir and the son of Prophet Nuh(as) that also died as a kafir.

I have said what i have to say towards TWDT and i guess you have also said what you have to say. Besides that there are enough other people that have tried talking to him.

- Either we lack the right words that makes him ponder, which is very plausible.
- He hasn't lived life to that extend to understand the concept you, me and many other Muslims have come to understand in full.
- As last option i can think of is that Allah is bringing out what he tried to hide. Allah for sure will test us and make it evident that what we say is true or not.

"Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?" Qur'an 29:2
"But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars." Qur'an 29:3

Allah knows best what the exact condition is of his heart and where he is heading towards and if he will die as a Muslim or as one who has disbelieved. I draw the line here as i have tried the best of my abilities.

BTW, it ALMOST looks like as if he is trying to find people who think the same like him. You know when somebody does something and he knows he is wrong, but if he gathers more people that do the same, suddenly he doesn't feel guilty anymore. When i ask you something, you give me a answer and i ask more questions to understand your answer. Thus a discussion can come in to existence which in the end we follow what is the truth. However like you said he doesn't really go in to it. Just feels sorry, but isn't willing to see the answer that is saying the opposite of what he is believing.
Ok, I am quite young(19) and trying to figure things out. The whole thing has been scattered around, so I was wondering, do you mind explaining to me clearly what the response is. It might clear things up for me.

And yes, I ask because a non-muslim friend of my family passed away.
Reply

Aisha_101
04-08-2017, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
They are my concern but not my problem. Allah has given the suffering Muslims of Burma and Palestine etc the best of rewards in the hereafter and I wish I were in their place - perspective is everything.

I'm concerned that they are suffering this life while they get the next with ease while I have ease in this life and will be judged due to it.

What's your take? Forget yourself and worry about things you got no control over?

Instead how about trying to recognise the flaw in your emotion led ideas about non Muslims?

They are not your concern, honestly - take your concern to them directly and see how you are met with mockery because you care. You are attempting to care for people who do not care about their soul... why are you wasting your thinking time over them?

It just doesn't make any sense to me as a Muslim.

Scimi
This is a bigoted response.
Muslim or not Muslim, if one suffers, you should have empathy towards them, even if you can't do anything about it. We're all humans regardless of our religion, our ethnicity and where we come from. We have blood inside us; being a Muslim doesn't make us have gold enriched blood. So we're all same in the inside.
Prophet Mohamed (may peace be upon him) never hated his enemies, or the non muslims. He was compassionate, considerate and had emotions towards them hence he preached Islam to save them from the aftermath in the after life.

Long story short, saying you don't care about the suffering of a non muslim is the most bigoted thing any real Muslim can say. Not very nice.

Salam.
-Aisha
Reply

Simple_Person
04-08-2017, 04:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Ok, I am quite young(19) and trying to figure things out. The whole thing has been scattered around, so I was wondering, do you mind explaining to me clearly what the response is. It might clear things up for me.

And yes, I ask because a non-muslim friend of my family passed away.
You don't know if he has died upon disbelief. Some people and their actions might be of a unbeliever, but he belongs to paradise and some people their actions belong to believers but they are people of hell fire. This non-Muslim friend of yours, you do not know. You cannot say well he has died and for sure he will end up in hell fire. Only Allah knows that. However what we do have FULL trust is that Allah(swt) has FOR SURE showed His signs of there being a Creator to him, before he died. So upon what state he finally has died, we do not know. Maybe still did not believe in a Creator, maybe he did believe in a Creator.

That is why i said, hope for the best. More you cannot do. The people who end up in hell fire, THEY themselves will be convinced they deserve hell fire. NO human being enters hell fire if they themselves are not convinced their place is hell fire. So lets say if this friend of yours will end up in hell fire, HE HIMSELF will first be 100% convinced he deserves hell fire before entering it. However again, we cannot make the judgement he will end up in hell fire. He maybe end up in paradise and you and i end up in hell fire. This possibility also exists. So he has died, this game (life) is over, you and i are still playing this game (life) and do our best to "win" this game (ie follow the path of Islam, and get rid of arrogance and pride, be humble, have patience, not do shirk, and keep away from sins and repent if we have done sins as we sure will still do more sins in our life time but again repent).
Reply

Simple_Person
04-08-2017, 04:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aisha_101
This is a bigoted response.
Muslim or not Muslim, if one suffers, you should have empathy towards them, even if you can't do anything about it. We're all humans regardless of our religion, our ethnicity and where we come from. We have blood inside us; being a Muslim doesn't make us have gold enriched blood. So we're all same in the inside.
Prophet Mohamed (may peace be upon him) never hated his enemies, or the non muslims. He was compassionate, considerate and had emotions towards them hence he preached Islam to save them from the aftermath in the after life.

Long story short, saying you don't care about the suffering of a non muslim is the most bigoted thing any real Muslim can say. Not very nice.

Salam.
-Aisha
Sister, nevermind him. I have tried earlier, but i THINK he is missing something. Maybe autism is the case or some sort, as such people are very straight and lack the emphatic part in their character. As in such cases they are pardoned as they are not able to do anything against it but born that way.
Reply

Scimitar
04-08-2017, 04:34 PM
You're both ignorant if you believe i have said you should not help a non Muslim lol - I stated that your humanity is part of your Islam but on the day of judgement you won't even care for your own mother - so worrying about what will happen to them in the afterlife is pointless right now - all you can do is give dawah but if you got no idea what Islam is, as TWDT demonstrated then dawah is also a silly idea.

Simply because he'd talk from his opinion and let's face it - everyone has an opinion---. Doesn't make it good does it?

Scimi
Reply

M.I.A.
04-08-2017, 04:41 PM
its just a system.

it feels no remorse or guilt for death and suffering.

most people go about there lives being the end of many others anyway..

tumult and opression is worse than death.

...they would argue they didnt say and do anything that they were not able to.

so the system has no shame to add to its admirable qualities.

but you know that before people die they have.. ironically.. put forward all they have to put forward.

made the choices that they made.

and thats that.

who they suffered or died for is something else.

where they go afterwards i have no understanding of.


honestly if i could just buy a farm and keep those i cared about away from the world..

but what about those good neighbours i hear you say?


dont get me wrong there is a god..

just not one that feels the same way as you do about things..

so be careful who you end up in front of.

these bus drivers are the worst iv ever seen.

i hope not to become like them.


i seen the same guy go past twice on the bus today.. the same direction both times lol.

but honestly, i quit football missing open nets..

there is no benefit to it.

the only day you run from each other is the day you turn up for yourself.

reminds me of the scene in robocop when the criminal goes.. i have a wife and kid!!

robocop has a wife and kid lol.


...be kind to other peoples mothers eh?


nearly got hit by a bus lol.. am i ready yet?

seriously, he drove at me from about 6 foot away.. although i suppose its the equivalent of crossing the road and missing cars by a foot.
Reply

Simple_Person
04-08-2017, 04:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
You're both ignorant if you believe i have said you should not help a non Muslim lol - I stated that your humanity is part of your Islam but on the day of judgement you won't even care for your own mother - so worrying about what will happen to them in the afterlife is pointless right now - all you can do is give dawah but if you got no idea what Islam is, as TWDT demonstrated then dawah is also a silly idea.

Simply because he'd talk from his opinion and let's face it - everyone has an opinion---. Doesn't make it good does it?

Educate your opinions so you don't talk rubbish in future,

Scimi
That TWDT says that and is concerned is maybe out of place, but as i have said earlier it may be because of certain issue. In this case he himself said i haven't lived life to a certain extend to that. Through time he will in'sha'Allah understand. I feel no sorry for anybody who dies as a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic, Buddhist, Hindu you name it, because i have trust in my Rab that he does not do injustice to no one. My trust in my Rab outweighs my concern about what will happen to people i once knew but they clearly were not Muslims when they died.

So i guess maybe the issue of concern of the people who have died, is maybe lack of trust in Allah(swt) and Him doing NO CREATURE injustice. We all get EXACTLY what we have worked for so to say.

I understood your comment in a different way, i apologize if that isn't what you meant to say.
Reply

TDWT
04-08-2017, 04:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
You don't know if he has died upon disbelief. Some people and their actions might be of a unbeliever, but he belongs to paradise and some people their actions belong to believers but they are people of hell fire. This non-Muslim friend of yours, you do not know. You cannot say well he has died and for sure he will end up in hell fire. Only Allah knows that. However what we do have FULL trust is that Allah(swt) has FOR SURE showed His signs of there being a Creator to him, before he died. So upon what state he finally has died, we do not know. Maybe still did not believe in a Creator, maybe he did believe in a Creator.

That is why i said, hope for the best. More you cannot do. The people who end up in hell fire, THEY themselves will be convinced they deserve hell fire. NO human being enters hell fire if they themselves are not convinced their place is hell fire. So lets say if this friend of yours will end up in hell fire, HE HIMSELF will first be 100% convinced he deserves hell fire before entering it. However again, we cannot make the judgement he will end up in hell fire. He maybe end up in paradise and you and i end up in hell fire. This possibility also exists. So he has died, this game (life) is over, you and i are still playing this game (life) and do our best to "win" this game (ie follow the path of Islam, and get rid of arrogance and pride, be humble, have patience, not do shirk, and keep away from sins and repent if we have done sins as we sure will still do more sins in our life time but again repent).
Well, they died on the way to church as a christian, they were hit by a car.
Reply

*charisma*
04-08-2017, 05:00 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Apparently some of you can't differentiate between this life and the afterlife. This is not about the treatment of nonMuslims in this world, this is about their destiny with Allah in the afterlife, which we are not involved in nor do we know the result of. No one is saying that they should be treated badly by anyone because they are nonMuslims or that their life is worthless because of it.
Reply

TDWT
04-08-2017, 05:00 PM
Yeah, I am talking about the next life actually.
Reply

TDWT
04-08-2017, 05:06 PM
Also schimatr told me this, is this accurate according to scholars as he claimed:

If someone is killed unfairly, then his or her life has been cut short which interferes with the natural flow of destiny, hence forth that person had no chance to come to belief later in life because their life was cut short - due to the possibility which didn't come to light - that person may be given Heaven as a reward because Allahs mercy is twice that of HIS wrath.
Reply

Simple_Person
04-08-2017, 05:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Well, they died on the way to church as a christian, they were hit by a car.
I had a female house mate and she was a Christian. She wore the cross and when i once talked to her. She said she does not believe Jesus being the son of God. In other words, she did believe in 1 Creator, but did not do shirk according to Islam. I have left her as it is. So that friend of your or they all, they could be going to church,but not believing that Jesus was literally the son of God in other word not dying on shirk. As many Christians don't bring this topic up, but there are some that don't really believe it you know. They just go along with it, but in their heart they don't believe this concept.
Reply

Scimitar
04-09-2017, 10:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
I had a female house mate and she was a Christian. She wore the cross and when i once talked to her. She said she does not believe Jesus being the son of God. In other words, she did believe in 1 Creator, but did not do shirk according to Islam. I have left her as it is. So that friend of your or they all, they could be going to church,but not believing that Jesus was literally the son of God in other word not dying on shirk. As many Christians don't bring this topic up, but there are some that don't really believe it you know. They just go along with it, but in their heart they don't believe this concept.
:)

Ask her why she wears the cross if she doesn't believe Jesus is the son of God?

In other words - he could not die for anyone's sins.

So why is she wearing the symbol which reminds her of the crucifixion? Isn't that rather - morbid?

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
04-09-2017, 10:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Also schimatr told me this, is this accurate according to scholars as he claimed:

If someone is killed unfairly, then his or her life has been cut short which interferes with the natural flow of destiny, hence forth that person had no chance to come to belief later in life because their life was cut short - due to the possibility which didn't come to light - that person may be given Heaven as a reward because Allahs mercy is twice that of HIS wrath.
there was a lot more I posted in that PM, which continued from this paragraph to give you a fleshed out understanding.

BUT.

You've split hairs without knowing why, AGAIN.

You Silly Boy.

:D

Scimi

EDIT: Sharing publicly what has been sent in a PRIVATE MESSAGE - is against the rules - I'm not gonna report you this time. But you've been warned ;)
Reply

TDWT
04-09-2017, 11:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
there was a lot more I posted in that PM, which continued from this paragraph to give you a fleshed out understanding.

BUT.

You've split hairs without knowing why, AGAIN.

You Silly Boy.

:D

Scimi

EDIT: Sharing publicly what has been sent in a PRIVATE MESSAGE - is against the rules - I'm not gonna report you this time. But you've been warned ;)

I sent you a pm from a scholar based on your words, can you respond to it.
Reply

Scimitar
04-09-2017, 11:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
I sent you a pm from a scholar based on your words, can you respond to it.
in sha Allah, When I have time - it's past midnight here, and i'm just doing a little light reading and posting before bed ;) just spent the day at speakers corner debating nutters and I'm tired bro.

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-10-2017, 11:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
in sha Allah, When I have time - it's past midnight here, and i'm just doing a little light reading and posting before bed ;) just spent the day at speakers corner debating nutters and I'm tired bro.

Scimi
Ok, ready whenever you are.
Reply

azc
04-11-2017, 03:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
You don't know if he has died upon disbelief. Some people and their actions might be of a unbeliever, but he belongs to paradise and some people their actions belong to believers but they are people of hell fire. This non-Muslim friend of yours, you do not know. You cannot say well he has died and for sure he will end up in hell fire. Only Allah knows that. However what we do have FULL trust is that Allah(swt) has FOR SURE showed His signs of there being a Creator to him, before he died. So upon what state he finally has died, we do not know. Maybe still did not believe in a Creator, maybe he did believe in a Creator. That is why i said, hope for the best. More you cannot do. The people who end up in hell fire, THEY themselves will be convinced they deserve hell fire. NO human being enters hell fire if they themselves are not convinced their place is hell fire. So lets say if this friend of yours will end up in hell fire, HE HIMSELF will first be 100% convinced he deserves hell fire before entering it. However again, we cannot make the judgement he will end up in hell fire. He maybe end up in paradise and you and i end up in hell fire. This possibility also exists. So he has died, this game (life) is over, you and i are still playing this game (life) and do our best to "win" this game (ie follow the path of Islam, and get rid of arrogance and pride, be humble, have patience, not do shirk, and keep away from sins and repent if we have done sins as we sure will still do more sins in our life time but again repent).
what benefits you see in pondering over him died with or without iman..? Only Allah swt knows best.
Reply

Simple_Person
04-11-2017, 10:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
what benefits you see in pondering over him died with or without iman..? Only Allah swt knows best.
Very strange reply you have i must say. Any ways, there are some people that are questioning about how somebody died. Rather my "pondering" is rather putting us again on our place as how limited our understanding goes. Also the understanding how somebody has died or what will happen after his death, is based on what Allah already has revealed with the Qur'an and through His messenger. So it isn't always even pondering about somebody else, but also pondering about yourself.

So if i say, well if somebody dies as a unbeliever, while we KNOW that Allah will reveal His ayaat to every human being that they will have no argument on the Day of Judgement, is rather a pondering for ourselves while we are alive. Are we appreciating the ayaat of Allah? Are we appreciating the things Allah is giving us and already has given us. It is much deeper than to simply think about somebody else. For example, in the Qur'an Allah talks about hypocrites. Well a hypocrite is a hypocrite. We could say well it is not talking about me. However hypocrites have certain tendencies and thus we must reflect upon ourselves if we also meet those tendencies. If so, we should try to abolish those tendencies while Allah still has not taken our soul from this world. So ponder about the state of other people, to look at yourself. If somebody has died, well he is dead nothing to do about it anymore. However will i follow the same road? Or am i following the same road?
Reply

TDWT
04-11-2017, 02:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
in sha Allah, When I have time - it's past midnight here, and i'm just doing a little light reading and posting before bed ;) just spent the day at speakers corner debating nutters and I'm tired bro.

Scimi
Is it alright?
Reply

Scimitar
04-11-2017, 05:31 PM
Don't know, not checked.

TO be honest, Your issue is silly and I believe you are looking at small issues which pale in comparison to the ones you ignore.

I've got 5 PM's from you which I have not opened, the thought of reading yet more illogical nonsense which plays to emotional music is boring me, in all honesty.

in sha Allah, When I have the time and the inclination to look at them, I shall.
.
Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-11-2017, 07:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Don't know, not checked.

TO be honest, Your issue is silly and I believe you are looking at small issues which pale in comparison to the ones you ignore.

I've got 5 PM's from you which I have not opened, the thought of reading yet more illogical nonsense which plays to emotional music is boring me, in all honesty.

in sha Allah, When I have the time and the inclination to look at them, I shall.
.
Scimi
Sorry, only one of them deals with the response I got from the ulema, you can answer that.

As well, what am I ignoring? I seriously do want to understand if you don't mind me asking? Is it perhaps related to why humans were created?
Reply

piXie
04-11-2017, 09:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
This is related to a thread of mine I posted, but when a muslim dies/suffering, I guess there is solace that paradise is for them, but what is the case for non-muslims? Again, something I am still struggling with actually?
:sl:

Allah has given you many rights and protected these rights through a system of Law (Islam). If someone abused your personal rights, according to the justice of Islam - you have the right to hold them accountable and you also have the right of choice - to forgive them. This is your right and you r not questioned or held blameworthy for excercising this choice. Infact, Allah has based mans rights Upon accountability, and He has based His :swt: rights upon forgiveness. Meaning, if we abuse the rights of man - we will be held accountable - however, if we abuse Allahs rights, He can forgive us for it if He wills. To this extent , Allah cares for and protects our rights. We get so upset when someone abuses even one of our rights. Then, what about the rights of Allaah? When someone abuses our rights, we quote our rights and call for accountability, yet when Allahs rights are abused, we struggle with the idea of accountability? The problem is, we don't recognise Allah or know WHO HE IS or believe in His justice and Mercy, we don't understand the crime of disbelieving in Him, or recognise the severity of it, this is why we struggle to accept the severe punishment of Hell.
Reply

TDWT
04-11-2017, 09:48 PM
Ok, I can see what you are saying but please forgive me for being emotional. I mean for example, atheist just believe people who are suffering die and that's it, no second chances, which can be seen as a sucky way of thinking, right? With Islam, when suffering muslim dies, they get a second chance in paradise, but the fact that a non-muslim does not is something I am struggling with.
Reply

sister herb
04-11-2017, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Ok, I can see what you are saying but please forgive me for being emotional. I mean for example, atheist just believe people who are suffering die and that's it, no second chances, which can be seen as a sucky way of thinking, right? With Islam, when suffering muslim dies, they get a second chance in paradise, but the fact that a non-muslim does not is something I am struggling with.
You are struggling with the fact that atheists don´t get "the second change"? Two things came to my mind: what you can do for it that they would get the second change and why do you think they want the second change if they don´t believe it or expect it? Well, they don´t also wait the hell as simply they expect nothing.
Reply

TDWT
04-11-2017, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
You are struggling with the fact that atheists don´t get "the second change"? Two things came to my mind: what you can do for it that they would get the second change and why do you think they want the second change if they don´t believe it or expect it? Well, they don´t also wait the hell as simply they expect nothing.
No, not atheist. I meant that is what atheist believe. I mean suffering non muslims such as maybe yazidis or christinaans in the middle east for example.
Reply

Simple_Person
04-12-2017, 09:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
No, not atheist. I meant that is what atheist believe. I mean suffering non muslims such as maybe yazidis or christinaans in the middle east for example.
Bro, you don't know what is going on. You don't know the whole picture, yet you feel sorry. Allah doesn't do injustice to no one. Shattering those communities through out the world can even be good for some among them that didn't have the courage or feared their lives if they wanted to converted to Islam or any other religion. There were many Yazidi's that worked with Saddam during the times when Saddam was killing Kurds, as Yazidi's are also Kurds and speak Kurdish language.

Don't just look at how innocent they look, Allah doesn't forget history you know. Also with many Muslims. Look at sunni-Arabs in Iraq. In the times with Saddam they were enjoying life, while he was oppressing Kurds, some sunni-Arabs and shia-Arabs, yet they not saying to the dictator what you are doing is wrong. There is MUCH more going one, but you do not know, yet you already conclude things. Don't ..there is so much that you and i don't know.
Reply

piXie
04-12-2017, 12:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Ok, I can see what you are saying but please forgive me for being emotional. I mean for example, atheist just believe people who are suffering die and that's it, no second chances, which can be seen as a sucky way of thinking, right? With Islam, when suffering muslim dies, they get a second chance in paradise, but the fact that a non-muslim does not is something I am struggling with.
Not being able to accept something due to our emotions is not going to change the reality. It is normal to feel sadness for the disbelievers. If I remember the incident correctly , Umer :ra: cried when he saw the Christian monks who had forsaken this world for worship - knowing that they will not receive anything in the hereafter for it either - because they deviated from the true teachings of Jesus :as: and rejected Muhammad :saws: It is extremely sad. Sometimes it can even be members of our own family who r not Muslims - people that we love, like the Prophet's :saws1: uncle who helped him and gave him protection , the prophet :saws1: really wanted that his uncle and the rest of the people be saved from the hell fire - he was very concerned for them - but what can you do when someone does not listen to you. Look what he went through to offer them Jannah but they refused it.

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Everyone of my Ummah will enter Jannah except those who refuse". He was asked: "Who will refuse?" He (ﷺ) said, "Whoever obeys me, shall enter Jannah, and whosoever disobeys me, refuses to (enter Jannah)".

[Al- Bukhari].


If we find it difficult to accept a reality, we should make sincere duaa to Allaah to help us, and we should seek forgiveness and guidance from Him.
Reply

praisetoallah
04-12-2017, 04:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by piXie
Not being able to accept something due to our emotions is not going to change the reality. It is normal to feel sadness for the disbelievers. If I remember the incident correctly , Umer :ra: cried when he saw the Christian monks who had forsaken this world for worship - knowing that they will not receive anything in the hereafter for it either - because they deviated from the true teachings of Jesus :as: and rejected Muhammad :saws: It is extremely sad. Sometimes it can even be members of our own family who r not Muslims - people that we love, like the Prophet's :saws1: uncle who helped him and gave him protection , the prophet :saws1: really wanted that his uncle and the rest of the people be saved from the hell fire - he was very concerned for them - but what can you do when someone does not listen to you. Look what he went through to offer them Jannah but they refused it.

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Everyone of my Ummah will enter Jannah except those who refuse". He was asked: "Who will refuse?" He (ﷺ) said, "Whoever obeys me, shall enter Jannah, and whosoever disobeys me, refuses to (enter Jannah)".

[Al- Bukhari].


If we find it difficult to accept a reality, we should make sincere duaa to Allaah to help us, and we should seek forgiveness and guidance from Him.
It is not our right to judge others . Allah swt will do what is necessary for people who do not follow Islam. But it is my personal belief that Allah loves all those he has created even if they believe in him in a different way.
Reply

Scimitar
04-12-2017, 06:23 PM
UNBELIEVERS: Don't believe in God - heaven, hell, angels, prophets and messengers, holy books etc - and they staunchly deny the Allah, and you want them to have a second chance?

Are you dense TWDT?

They get more than a second chance - the number of times a non believer gets opportunity and invite to Islam throughout the course of their life is innumerable - so I have no idea what you are crying about. Must be the little girl in you who wishes to paint her nails pink eh? Grow a brain, you embarrassment.

Scimi
Reply

Abdullah910
04-12-2017, 06:28 PM
Non-Muslims shall be thrown to hell, so why should I care about them?

There are thousands of Muslims suffering, why dont we talk about them instead? Why do we talk about the opressors only?
Reply

TDWT
04-12-2017, 06:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
UNBELIEVERS: Don't believe in God - heaven, hell, angels, prophets and messengers, holy books etc - and they staunchly deny the Allah, and you want them to have a second chance?

Are you dense TWDT?

They get more than a second chance - the number of times a non believer gets opportunity and invite to Islam throughout the course of their life is innumerable - so I have no idea what you are crying about. Must be the little girl in you who wishes to paint her nails pink eh? Grow a brain, you embarrassment.

Scimi
Let me elaborate. You have misunderstood me. And also, enough with the childish insults. It is very unprofessional.

What I was saying is the atheist mentality is that suffering people, muslim and non-muslim don't get a second chance and that mentality sucks right?

So I was saying, through an islamic point, people can get a second chance, right? I mean, muslims can, but the fact that non-muslims can't, is what is kind of hard of me to accept.

There
Reply

TDWT
04-12-2017, 06:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Non-Muslims shall be thrown to hell, so why should I care about them?

There are thousands of Muslims suffering, why dont we talk about them instead? Why do we talk about the opressors only?
Not all non muslims are bad. And yes, I care for suffering people, muslim and non-muslim
Reply

Scimitar
04-12-2017, 06:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Not all non muslims are bad. And yes, I care for suffering people, muslim and non-muslim
:D

Where in Islam does it tell us not to care for humanity? SHOW ME!!!!

You're ignorance is astounding me.

HOW CAN YOU RELATE THE JUDGEMENT OF NON MUSLIMS IN THE AFTER LIFE TO YOUR TREATMENT OF THEM IN THIS LIFE? IS IT ALL ONE AND THE SAME TO YOUR SMALL MIND? :D

Honestly, you're ignorance is beyond doubt at this point. It's firmly established into your being.

Scimi
Reply

praisetoallah
04-12-2017, 06:50 PM
This is a crazy idea to me. No one should judge but Allah
Reply

sister herb
04-12-2017, 06:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Non-Muslims shall be thrown to hell, so why should I care about them?

There are thousands of Muslims suffering, why dont we talk about them instead? Why do we talk about the opressors only?
Do you see that all non-Muslims are some sort of oppressors?
Reply

Abdullah910
04-12-2017, 06:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Not all non muslims are bad. And yes, I care for suffering people, muslim and non-muslim
Muslims like you must be very happy to live amongst the kuffar and to take them as friends.

You like to lick their boots, dont you? How much do they pay you?
Reply

TDWT
04-12-2017, 06:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
:D

Where in Islam does it tell us not to care for humanity? SHOW ME!!!!

You're ignorance is astounding me.

HOW CAN YOU RELATE THE JUDGEMENT OF NON MUSLIMS IN THE AFTER LIFE TO YOUR TREATMENT OF THEM IN THIS LIFE? IS IT ALL ONE AND THE SAME TO YOUR SMALL MIND? :D

Honestly, you're ignorance is beyond doubt at this point. It's firmly established into your being.

Scimi
I never said that. I was just talking to that specific user, who showed that mentally. I never said islam says not to care about non-muslims condition in this life. I am only talking about the judgement of the afterlife, so let's go back to the topic. And again, enough with jumping to the conclusions and making your insults.

Now, then, should I share what the scholar told me here?
Reply

Abdullah910
04-12-2017, 06:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
Do you see that all non-Muslims are some sort of oppressors?
The only way I could approve the existance of the kuffar is if they live as dhimmis in an Islamic State.
Reply

Scimitar
04-12-2017, 07:01 PM
I conclude you are ignorant of all things Islam.

Honestly, judging by your threads and posts, I see a compromised Muslim who places more importance on his own opinions than he does on dissemination of Islamic understanding on the matters you opine over.

I find that, childish, and wholly ridiculous - and totally ignorant - because it is.

You have no point left to make, just an opinion you wish to circulate - your questions were all answered here repeatedly - it's not our fault you are dense and cannot understand.

Ask Allah to open you to understanding, coz that's what you need. If Allah doesn't wish for you to understand - there must be a good reason for it - and you will never understand.

If HE wishes for you to understand, then you need to prove your sincerity, and not your emotions.

You have no idea how much of a mess you've made of your own understanding by entertaining juvenile thoughts.

Scimi
Reply

Abdullah910
04-12-2017, 07:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
Do you see that all non-Muslims are some sort of oppressors?
Anyone who does not live by the rules of Allah SWT, is a liar and opressor.
Reply

piXie
04-12-2017, 07:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by praisetoallah
It is not our right to judge others.
We judge by what is apparent according to the Book of Allaah.

Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you. And do not be for the deceitful an advocate. (An-Nisa: 105)

But it is my personal belief that Allah loves all those he has created even if they believe in him in a different way.
If our beliefs r not based upon the Quran, then they r based upon our emotions & false hopes. Allah :swt: says



قُلۡ اِنۡ كُنۡتُمۡ تُحِبُّوۡنَ اللّٰهَ فَاتَّبِعُوۡنِىۡ يُحۡبِبۡكُمُ اللّٰهُ وَيَغۡفِرۡ لَـكُمۡ ذُنُوۡبَكُمۡؕ​ وَاللّٰهُ غَفُوۡرٌ رَّحِيۡمٌ‏

(O Messenger!) Tell people: 'If you indeed love Allah, follow me, and Allah will love you and will forgive you your sins. Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.' (3:31)

قُلۡ اَطِيۡعُوا اللّٰهَ وَالرَّسُوۡلَ​​ ۚ فَاِنۡ تَوَلَّوۡا فَاِنَّ اللّٰهَ لَا يُحِبُّ الۡكٰفِرِيۡنَ‏

Say: 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who are kaafireen/disbelievers. (3:32)


“Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases, and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.” (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:48)
Reply

Zeal
04-12-2017, 07:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Non-Muslims shall be thrown to hell, so why should I care about them?

There are thousands of Muslims suffering, why dont we talk about them instead? Why do we talk about the opressors only?
Did the prophet (saw) not care for the kuffar at all?
Reply

TDWT
04-12-2017, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I conclude you are ignorant of all things Islam.

Honestly, judging by your threads and posts, I see a compromised Muslim who places more importance on his own opinions than he does on dissemination of Islamic understanding on the matters you opine over.

I find that, childish, and wholly ridiculous - and totally ignorant - because it is.

You have no point left to make, just an opinion you wish to circulate - your questions were all answered here repeatedly - it's not our fault you are dense and cannot understand.

Ask Allah to open you to understanding, coz that's what you need. If Allah doesn't wish for you to understand - there must be a good reason for it - and you will never understand.

If HE wishes for you to understand, then you need to prove your sincerity, and not your emotions.

You have no idea how much of a mess you've made of your own understanding by entertaining juvenile thoughts.

Scimi
Ok, then fine, I will look at it by discarding my emotions for this

So in Islam, purpose of life is to worship god, those who are believers fill this in right and deserve heaven for following this achievement?
In that case, then the Islamic viewpoint is that people are responsible for themselves for their fate in the afterlife and if a non-muslim does not accept Islam, then no matter their condition in this life, they deserve hell because it is their own fault for not accepting islam...

So, I should not be worried about them because their destiny is in their hands, correct?
Reply

Abdullah910
04-12-2017, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zeal
Did the prophet (saw) not care for the kuffar at all?
No. They are enemies of Islam.
Reply

Zeal
04-12-2017, 07:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
No. They are enemies of Islam.
Do you have evidence for this?
And then what about his uncle?
Reply

Abdullah910
04-12-2017, 07:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zeal
Do you have evidence for this?
And then what about his uncle?
His uncle was a family member. Family members are to be respected and honored, especially ones parents and their parents siblings.
Islam commands us to keep family ties and to be patient if they attack and insult Islam.
Reply

Zeal
04-12-2017, 07:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
His uncle was a family member. Family members are to be respected and honored, especially ones parents and their parents siblings.
Islam commands us to keep family ties and to be patient if they attack and insult Islam.
But did he care for him, a kaffir yes or no?


Also, where is your evidence for him not caring?
Did he not make dua for some kuffar, it seems contradictory to make dua for someone you dont care for, unless there's another motive.
Reply

Abdullah910
04-12-2017, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zeal
But did he care for him, a kaffir yes or no?


Also, where is your evidence for him not caring?
As I said, his uncle was a family member.

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. 60:4
Reply

Abdullah910
04-12-2017, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zeal
But did he care for him, a kaffir yes or no?


Also, where is your evidence for him not caring?
Did he not make dua for some kuffar, it seems contradictory to make dua for someone you dont care for, unless there's another motive.
Kafirs are the worst of creatures, they shall all go to jahannam and abide therein forever if they dont accept Islam.

May Allah guide these kuffar or may He destroy them, ameen.
Reply

Zeal
04-12-2017, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
As I said, his uncle was a family member.

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. 60:4
There are so many things I can say but number one is learn islam properly(i dont mean this in an offensive way)

This is how our Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was; he shed tears and his heart was broken out of compassion and sorrow for those who did not believe in him and did not join his caravan that would take them back to their original home for which they were created and from which they were expelled, which is Paradise. That great compassion that filled the heart of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) deserved to be recorded by Allah in the Holy Qur’an, where He said (interpretation of the meaning):-“Perhaps you would kill yourself (O Muhammad) in grief, over them (for their turning away from you), because they believe not in this narration (the Quran)” [al-Kahf 18:6]-i.e., perhaps your grief for them would destroy you.

See-Tafseer al-Qur’an al-‘Azeem, 5/137-

https://islamqa.info/en/189207

Lot's more in this fatwa
Reply

sister herb
04-12-2017, 08:08 PM
^^ Hard words. I am pleased that Allah is the most merciful. :D


EDIT: My comment was meant to Abdullah910, not to Zeal.
Reply

sister herb
04-12-2017, 08:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
You just called the words of Allah harsh, and you will regret for this on the day of judgement. Allah is the most just.
No. I called your words hard. That´s all. Also I told it´s a good thing that Allah is the most merciful. Do you deny it? (Yes, He is also the most just and that´s good too.)

I would like to advice you to leave such matters like what happens to me in the Judgement Day to Allah only. He also knows the best.

;D
Reply

Zeal
04-12-2017, 09:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
She asked if I deny that Allah is the most merciful.

Just to be asked such a question is an insult to me. Of course I dont deny it.

You dont ask believers such questions.
Yes, I agree and you also don't call them #dirty# liars.

There are so many hadith on kindness so let's just be kind to eachother, after all we're all muslims here. Let's try earn the pleasure of Allah before death comes and our souls are taken away.


May Allah forgive us ameen
Reply

sister herb
04-12-2017, 09:13 PM
Sorry bro, my meaning wasn´t insult you at all, just be sure about what part of my earlier post you disagreed.

Yes, we never can be too kind to each others, also when we disagree with them.
Reply

Eric H
04-12-2017, 10:16 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Abdullah910;

Kafirs are the worst of creatures,
I am pleased I do not have to judge you in the same way you judge me.

Blessings,

Eric
Reply

TDWT
04-13-2017, 04:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I conclude you are ignorant of all things Islam.

Honestly, judging by your threads and posts, I see a compromised Muslim who places more importance on his own opinions than he does on dissemination of Islamic understanding on the matters you opine over.

I find that, childish, and wholly ridiculous - and totally ignorant - because it is.

You have no point left to make, just an opinion you wish to circulate - your questions were all answered here repeatedly - it's not our fault you are dense and cannot understand.

Ask Allah to open you to understanding, coz that's what you need. If Allah doesn't wish for you to understand - there must be a good reason for it - and you will never understand.

If HE wishes for you to understand, then you need to prove your sincerity, and not your emotions.

You have no idea how much of a mess you've made of your own understanding by entertaining juvenile thoughts.

Scimi
Well, did you see my response?
Reply

Simple_Person
04-13-2017, 07:39 AM
@Abdullah910 ,

With your attitude If I was not a Muslim and I was seeking in to Islam I would have run away from you and Islam. However Alhamdullilah that there is Qur'an ahadith, my own mind that I do not have to come to you for knowledge and understanding of Islam.

"So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah . Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him]. " 3:159
Reply

Eric H
04-13-2017, 08:03 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Abdullah910;

What are you going to do when sharia comes to Europe? Are you still going to reject Islam?

Now answer me this, would you ever accept to live in an Islamic State as a dhimmi?
I am sorry, but I do not answer hypothetical questions, how can any person really know how they would respond in a given situation. I try and look at all people as my brother and sister, we are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers. I admire the way Muslims pray, fast, their modesty and good manners. I have been pleased to be called uncle, brother, granddad and friend on this forum, and I pray for the salvation of all people.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God

Eric
Reply

Abdullah910
04-13-2017, 04:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Abdullah910;



I am sorry, but I do not answer hypothetical questions, how can any person really know how they would respond in a given situation. I try and look at all people as my brother and sister, we are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers. I admire the way Muslims pray, fast, their modesty and good manners. I have been pleased to be called uncle, brother, granddad and friend on this forum, and I pray for the salvation of all people.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God

Eric
Than I must invite you to Islam.

Allah عز و جل says: And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. 51:56

Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. 3:19

They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. 5:73

[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. 19:30

[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path." 19:36

And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed. 6:21

Are you willing to accept the religion of truth?

We can be brothers if you accept Islam and worship one true God in shaa Allah.





Reply

Abdullah910
04-13-2017, 06:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
@Abdullah910,

With your attitude If I was not a Muslim and I was seeking in to Islam I would have run away from you and Islam. However Alhamdullilah that there is Qur'an ahadith, my own mind that I do not have to come to you for knowledge and understanding of Islam.

"So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah . Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him]. " 3:159
You should stop playing with the Qur'an and stop posting Qur'an verses against me.





mods stop deleting my messages
Reply

Eric H
04-13-2017, 09:34 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Abdullah910;

Than I must invite you to Islam.
Now here's the thing, you list me amongst the worst of creatures, then as an after thought, you invite me to Islam. You may need to reflect on your approach, if you truthfully want to encourage dawah.

We can be brothers if you accept Islam and worship one true God in shaa Allah.
We are all created by the same God, the same God hears all our prayers, I try and look on all people as my sisters and brothers, despite our differences. I have had a number of profound experiences, when my faith has made the difference between life and death. I wish you every blessing and peace

Eric
Reply

azc
04-14-2017, 02:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by piXie
:sl:

Allah has given you many rights and protected these rights through a system of Law (Islam). If someone abused your personal rights, according to the justice of Islam - you have the right to hold them accountable and you also have the right of choice - to forgive them. This is your right and you r not questioned or held blameworthy for excercising this choice. Infact, Allah has based mans rights Upon accountability, and He has based His :swt: rights upon forgiveness. Meaning, if we abuse the rights of man - we will be held accountable - however, if we abuse Allahs rights, He can forgive us for it if He wills. To this extent , Allah cares for and protects our rights. We get so upset when someone abuses even one of our rights. Then, what about the rights of Allaah? When someone abuses our rights, we quote our rights and call for accountability, yet when Allahs rights are abused, we struggle with the idea of accountability? The problem is, we don't recognise Allah or know WHO HE IS or believe in His justice and Mercy, we don't understand the crime of disbelieving in Him, or recognise the severity of it, this is why we struggle to accept the severe punishment of Hell.
Yes, we have rights and responsibilities which have been clearly defined by the shariah.

We transgress when whims are followed instead of shariah.
Reply

azc
04-14-2017, 02:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Ok, I can see what you are saying but please forgive me for being emotional. I mean for example, atheist just believe people who are suffering die and that's it, no second chances, which can be seen as a sucky way of thinking, right? With Islam, when suffering muslim dies, they get a second chance in paradise, but the fact that a non-muslim does not is something I am struggling with.
Problem is that atheists don't want yield to the injunctions of Lord, rather their mission is to criticize the religion. They are the slaves of the whims.When the msg of Islam is before them that non believers will go to hell if they don't die as Muslims, but this msg is not acceptable to them. They want to change the religion and wish to get the religion subjugated to their whims.This is the open challenge to the creator of this universe and they will see the consequence of their stubbornness.
Reply

sister herb
04-14-2017, 07:11 AM
The simple; atheists believe that the religion is the whim of beleivers.
Reply

azc
04-14-2017, 07:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
The simple; atheists believe that the religion is the whim of beleivers.
they live in their ignorance. But when they die, will cry but no avail
Reply

azc
04-14-2017, 07:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Muslims like you must be very happy to live amongst the kuffar and to take them as friends. You like to lick their boots, dont you? How much do they pay you?
could you use some decent language...?
Reply

azc
04-14-2017, 08:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
No. They are enemies of Islam.
he didn't ask your personal views about kuffar. he asked how RasulAllah s.a.w treated with them .
Reply

azc
04-14-2017, 08:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Kafirs are the worst of creatures, they shall all go to jahannam and abide therein forever if they dont accept Islam.May Allah guide these kuffar or may He destroy them, ameen.
you can't spread Islam by spreading hatred
Reply

Simple_Person
04-15-2017, 10:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Than I must invite you to Islam.

Allah عز و جل says: And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. 51:56

Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. 3:19

They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. 5:73

[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. 19:30

[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path." 19:36

And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed. 6:21

Are you willing to accept the religion of truth?

We can be brothers if you accept Islam and worship one true God in shaa Allah.
Dude, it doesn't work like that. Just like brother @Eric H stated, "you list me amongst the worst of creatures, then as an after thought, you invite me to Islam".

In Islam it is not simply only about conquering of the mind, but conquering of the heart is the MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT. There are discussions one can have with atheists PURELY based on logic, rationality and reason with scientific evidence that Islam is the truth having a discussion (Islam vs Atheism). Based on that the mind has already been conquered so to say, however YET STILL they do not accept Islam.

The question is why? Because you have not conquered the heart. Some people just hate you and everything that you represent you being Muslim, Christian, Jew or of any other religion. These people are ignorant as ignorant can be and you leave them be, as they are not having a discussion to seek the truth. They will offend you in any way possible. These people most likely have had very bad experience in their life that a loved one or so has died and they have come resent religion and Allah, because they are ignorant of the fact that this life is all a test.

"And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace," Qur'an 25:63

In other words, we are still kind to them and merciful to them as they don't know and don't understand.

"O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion – Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing." Qur'an 5:54

The disbelievers are the ones that KNOW from the bottom of their heart that Islam is the truth, yet they reject it. So those are NOT the ones that are ignorant, but rather are very knowledgeable about all of it, however they reject out of hatred, or pride or arrogance. Take Abu Jahil (Amr ibn Hishām) he KNEW Islam was the truth and had nothing to refute Islam, yet out of pride and arrogance rejected Islam and attacked Islam by force.

Why do you think that in Islam good character is SOO IMPORTANT!!. Qur'an highlights this and the sunnah highlights this. Islamic history has even highlighted this as for example many places in Asia have become Muslim based on this.

When one has good character, people want to be near you and hang out with you. When people do that, they respect you and listen careful to what you have to say and ponder about what you are saying.

So my advice is ponder more about how to achieve good character. Islam when one starts practicing it to achieve especially good character is not easy. Sharing what you have, wishing somebody else to have what you have, helping somebody out of the goodness of your heart, if somebody offends you, you not lowering yourself to his level of ignorance. Being good to children and how to handle them, being good and merciful to creatures, keeping your mouth shut when nothing beneficial to say. It is not easy at first, but once you have cleared your intention to Allah He opens the road for you that slowly becomes so easy to achieve all those character traits.

About brother @Eric H, he i THINK already has acknowledged Islam as he has been on this forum for such a long time and i BELIEVE is right now is mostly in struggle with his inner self. Let him be and let him walk his journey at his own pace.

Look at the story of Umar ibn Khattab (ra) it took i believe 5 years before he became a Muslim. So every human being has a different road that leads him to Islam, the road also may be long, while for the other is shorter. It is just want a person needs to experience first to finally concluded Islam is the truth. This again differs for each human being.

So take it easy and be lenient to people.
Reply

Scimitar
04-15-2017, 03:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Abdullah910;

Now here's the thing, you list me amongst the worst of creatures, then as an after thought, you invite me to Islam. You may need to reflect on your approach, if you truthfully want to encourage dawah.
LOL, true that my brother Eric :)

@Abdullah910,

You can't seriously believe you can make someone a Muslim by going hot and cold with them when it takes your fancy bro.

I advise you to revise your method in sha Allah.

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-15-2017, 04:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
LOL, true that my brother Eric :)

@Abdullah910,

You can't seriously believe you can make someone a Muslim by going hot and cold with them when it takes your fancy bro.

I advise you to revise your method in sha Allah.

Scimi
Do you mind answering my question about concerned with fate of suffering muslims though?
Reply

Scimitar
04-15-2017, 05:18 PM
Suffering where? :D

I've already answered you here and in PM, but you are a few pennies short of a pound young man.

You won't get it.

Scim
Reply

Umm♥Layth
04-15-2017, 06:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
LOL, true that my brother Eric :)

@Abdullah910,

You can't seriously believe you can make someone a Muslim by going hot and cold with them when it takes your fancy bro.

I advise you to revise your method in sha Allah.

Scimi
He needs to revise his entire understanding of Islam. This is the same guy that recently said on a different threat that if his wife didn't wear a burka, he'd hit her. What a piece of work. Maybe he's a troll.
Reply

TDWT
04-15-2017, 08:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Suffering where? :D

I've already answered you here and in PM, but you are a few pennies short of a pound young man.

You won't get it.

Scim
No, I mean about non-muslims, you answered, right? I mean for suffering muslims, earlier you said something along the lines that they are your problem and concern right?
Reply

Scimitar
04-16-2017, 11:42 PM
is your question about sufferring in this world? or the next?

Because if it is about this world - then Muslims don't differentiate on who to help based on their religion - we help people based on their need.

If it's the afterlife - all you can do is do right by your own soul - and that means doing right by others. Other than that - all it remains as, is empty worry which you do nothing about.

A Muslim is a part of society, an ACTIVE component in the mechanics of society, and not separate from it. This does not mean we engage in activities which compromise our deen - but it does mean we get involved in charitable projects locally and give dawah however we can, by word or by action and deed.

Islam is simple bro - don't complicate it.

Scimi
Reply

TDWT
04-17-2017, 02:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
is your question about sufferring in this world? or the next?

Because if it is about this world - then Muslims don't differentiate on who to help based on their religion - we help people based on their need.

If it's the afterlife - all you can do is do right by your own soul - and that means doing right by others. Other than that - all it remains as, is empty worry which you do nothing about.

A Muslim is a part of society, an ACTIVE component in the mechanics of society, and not separate from it. This does not mean we engage in activities which compromise our deen - but it does mean we get involved in charitable projects locally and give dawah however we can, by word or by action and deed.

Islam is simple bro - don't complicate it.

Scimi
I meant the next life, I mean, you said worrying about non-muslims is wrong, but earlier you said suffering muslims are your problem and concern, so I mean, is it ok to have a bit of worry/hope for dead muslims in the next life?
Reply

Serinity
04-17-2017, 03:13 PM
:salam:

The Problem here is - you judge the Akhira by what you have in this Dunya - with what you have (your brain, experiences, etc,)

Remember that when you die, on the Day of Judgment, you won't even care for your father or mother - rather you will only care for yourself.

Just know that the only reason you are on this Earth is to serve Allah :swt: and don't forget your rights. I get your concern - but you can't judge Jannah by what you have here.

In Jannah we will have, afaik, things that has never crossed the heart of mankind or Jinnkind.

So what about the next life?

Allahu alam.
Reply

aaj
04-17-2017, 03:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah910
Muslims like you must be very happy to live amongst the kuffar and to take them as friends.

You like to lick their boots, dont you? How much do they pay you?
That is uncalled for. The brother is trying to grasp the understanding of how to deal with the death and hell bound of the kuffars.

Although he has been at it for a while. He needs to understand that Allah is Most Just and will do justice by everyone so he needs to have faith in that and leave it there.


format_quote Originally Posted by praisetoallah
This is a crazy idea to me. No one should judge but Allah
That is a poor excuse to do as one pleases. Allah gave us rules, laws and knowledge to judge with and made us His witnesses on earth.

Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) saw a funeral passing by, and those who were with him spoke ill of the deceased person, and he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “It is due.” Then another funeral passed by, and they spoke well of the deceased person, and the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “It is due.” They asked him what he had meant by saying it is due, and he said: “The one of whom you spoke ill, Hell is his due, and the one of whom you spoke well, Paradise is his due. You are the witnesses of Allah on His earth.”


format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
:D

Where in Islam does it tell us not to care for humanity? SHOW ME!!!!

You're ignorance is astounding me.

Scimi
Remember the hadith about taking a life equitable to killing all of mankind and saving a life equitable to saving all of mankind? It doesn't say Muslim life, it says a life. Allah made all life sacred, which is why you can't go nilly willy killing non-Muslims as you please, like the kuffars do to the Muslims.
Reply

TDWT
04-17-2017, 03:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

The Problem here is - you judge the Akhira by what you have in this Dunya - with what you have (your brain, experiences, etc,)

Remember that when you die, on the Day of Judgment, you won't even care for your father or mother - rather you will only care for yourself.

Just know that the only reason you are on this Earth is to serve Allah :swt: and don't forget your rights. I get your concern - but you can't judge Jannah by what you have here.

In Jannah we will have, afaik, things that has never crossed the heart of mankind or Jinnkind.

So what about the next life?

Allahu alam.
I know but the thing is, whenever you see suffering muslims in palestine or burma, you say things like 'oh, may god grant them Jannah or things like that' and plus, a dead muslims will enter Jannah anyway in genera, so you are somewhat concerned with the conditions of muslims and can find solace in that. I just find it hard that I can't for persecuted non muslims because in general they go to hell regardless of their condition in this life.
Reply

Scimitar
04-17-2017, 07:50 PM
Q1] Can I worry about the fate of a non Muslim in the after life?

A1] You can, but to no avail - because on that day - you won't even care what happens to your own mother - do you really think you'll be able to care for people you don;t know and have no religion in common with to boot - you won't even care what happens to Muslims on the day of judgement because the trials of that day are beyond imagination and terrible to experience - beyond description!!!

Q2] Can I worry about a suffering non Muslim in this life?

A2] It is incumbent on you in this life to help whoever needs it - Muslim or non Muslim. Muslims help those who require help and we do not differentiate on wh to help except based on their NEED.

Q3] Can I worry about the fate of Muslims in the after life?

A3] For answer, see A1.

Q4] Can I worry about the suffering Muslims in this life?

A5] For answer, see A2.

Scimi
Reply

Abdullah9100
04-18-2017, 01:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
could you use some decent language...?
I didnt insult anyone.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc
he didn't ask your personal views about kuffar. he asked how RasulAllah s.a.w treated with them .
I am not talking about how he s.a.w treated them.
I am saying that we must have hatred in our heart towards the kuffar and not take them as friends.
Nowadays I see most of "Muslims" taking the kuffar as friends, playing football with them and what not.
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
LOL, true that my brother Eric :)

@Abdullah910,

You can't seriously believe you can make someone a Muslim by going hot and cold with them when it takes your fancy bro.

I advise you to revise your method in sha Allah.

Scimi
No.
As a Muslim I believe being honest is very important. Do you want me to become a liar and to say "I love non-Muslims" even though I hate them?
Reply

Aaqib
04-18-2017, 01:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah9100
I didnt insult anyone.

I am not talking about how he s.a.w treated them.
I am saying that we must have hatred in our heart towards the kuffar and not take them as friends.
Nowadays I see most of "Muslims" taking the kuffar as friends, playing football with them and what not.
No.
As a Muslim I believe being honest is very important. Do you want me to become a liar and to say "I love non-Muslims" even though I hate them?
Dude how in the world is playing a sport with them a bad thing!? I do that all the time.
Reply

Abdullah9100
04-18-2017, 01:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaqib
Dude how in the world is playing a sport with them a bad thing!? I do that all the time.
It is wrong.

The prophet pbuh said: "I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen"
Reply

Search
04-18-2017, 01:45 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah9100
It is wrong.

The prophet pbuh said: "I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen"
And who are you to give a fatwa (ruling) on whether playing sports with non-Muslims is wrong? Do you know what Prophet Muhammad :saws: said? He :saws: said, "Whoever gives fatwa without knowledge, the angels of the heaven and the earth curse him."

Also, if no Muslim ever settled or had settled between nonbelievers, then there would be no believers today as you see them being the foam of the sea (in terms of our great numbers); and that's because that was the primary means of dawah then and remains so now and the tried-and-tested formula of doing that has always been settling as a stranger in foreign lands to do so.

Kindly, and I mean it seriously, please stop highlighting your ignorance and then promoting the tidbit that you have on this board as some kind of gateway to you giving others advice or dawah; I have been observing you continuing in this vein so for some time now, and I have been quietly hoping that other members would have enabled you to reflect on their beneficial advice. Instead, to my great disappointment, what I've observed is that you persist in making ignorant posts. Imam Shafi rahmatullahi said, "Knowledge is not what is memorized. Knowledge is what benefits."

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Reply

Abdullah9100
04-18-2017, 01:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)



And who are you to give a fatwa (ruling) on whether playing sports with non-Muslims is wrong? Do you know what Prophet Muhammad :saws: said? He :saws: said, "Whoever gives fatwa without knowledge, the angels of the heaven and the earth curse him."

Also, if no Muslim ever settled or had settled between nonbelievers, then there would be no believers today as you see them being the foam of the sea (in terms of our great numbers); and that's because that was the primary means of dawah then and remains so now and the tried-and-tested formula of doing that has always been settling as a stranger in foreign lands to do so.

Kindly, and I mean it seriously, please stop highlighting your ignorance and then promoting the tidbit that you have on this board as some kind of gateway to you giving others advice or dawah; I have been observing you continuing in this vein so for some time now, and I have been quietly hoping that other members would have enabled you to reflect on their beneficial advice. Instead, to my great disappointment, what I've observed is that you persist in making ignorant posts. Imam Shafi rahmatullahi said, "Knowledge is not what is memorized. Knowledge is what benefits."

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Here is the fatwa https://islamqa.info/en/59879
Reply

Search
04-18-2017, 02:03 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah9100
I'm not a Salafi, rather a madhab-follower. As such, I have never deemed that site a reliable fatwa site because the fatwas are given from a specific Salafi orientation.

However, even if I had deemed that site a reliable fatwa site, playing sports with non-Muslims is not the issue which is being discussed in that fatwa with which you responded. By this, I mean that the fatwa you presented is not any type of rebuttal to my original post to you on not speaking without knowledge.

Moreover, ideas such as friendship or extent of allowance of mixing with nonbelievers are not new issues. I have been on this board for almost two years now, and these issues have been discussed ad nauseum. You would be benefited instead by using the search button to look through older threads rather than promoting ignorant viewpoints.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Reply

Abdullah9100
04-18-2017, 02:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Abdullah910;



Now here's the thing, you list me amongst the worst of creatures, then as an after thought, you invite me to Islam. You may need to reflect on your approach, if you truthfully want to encourage dawah.



We are all created by the same God, the same God hears all our prayers, I try and look on all people as my sisters and brothers, despite our differences. I have had a number of profound experiences, when my faith has made the difference between life and death. I wish you every blessing and peace

Eric
Yes we are all created by the same God, but the difference between me and you is that I worship one true God and you worship shaitan by saying that Allah has taken a son and thats what shaitan wants from you.

And yet some people assert, "God has taken unto Himself a son!" Limitless is He in His glory! Nay, but His is all that is in the heavens and on earth; all things devoutly obey His will. - 2:116

O FOLLOWERS of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs, and do not say of God anything but the truth. The Christ Jesus, son of Mary, was but God's messenger - [the fulfilment of] His promise which He had conveyed unto Mary - and a soul created by Him. Believe, then, in God and His messengers, and do not say, "[God is] a trinity". Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son: unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and none is as worthy of trust as God. - 4:171

AND THE JEWS say, "Ezra is God's son," while the Christians say, "The Christ is God's son." Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth! [44] [They deserve the imprecation:] "May God destroy them!" How perverted are their minds! - 9:30


Tawheed and shirk can never come together.

Reply

Abdullah9100
04-18-2017, 02:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)



I'm not a Salafi, rather a madhab-follower. As such, I have never deemed that site a reliable fatwa site because the fatwas are given from a specific Salafi orientation.

However, even if I had deemed that site a reliable fatwa site, playing sports with non-Muslims is not the issue which is being discussed in that fatwa with which you responded. By this, I mean that the fatwa you presented is not any type of rebuttal to my original post to you on not speaking without knowledge.

Moreover, ideas such as friendship or extent of allowance of mixing with nonbelievers are not new issues. I have been on this board for almost two years now, and these issues have been discussed ad nauseum. You would be benefited instead by using the search button to look through older threads rather than promoting ignorant viewpoints.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
If you are a Muslim you should follow Qur'an and Sunnah.

There are many proofs in the Qur'an and Sunnah that we must not take the kuffar as friends.
Reply

azc
04-18-2017, 05:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah9100
If you are a Muslim you should follow Qur'an and Sunnah.

There are many proofs in the Qur'an and Sunnah that we must not take the kuffar as friends.
Keeping good relations with them isn't prohibited.
Reply

azc
04-18-2017, 06:56 AM
@Abdullah9100 :
I am not talking about how he s.a.w treated them.
Why don't you follow prophet s.a.w how He treated them.?
I am saying that we must have hatred in our heart towards the kuffar
it means you hate their children and gentle people who always stand for Muslims in support and even come on street to protest against injustice to Muslims..?
and not take them as friends.
what is concept of friendship in your opinion ?
Nowadays I see most of "Muslims" taking the kuffar as friends, playing football with them and what not
which scholars do you follow, bro ?
Reply

Eric H
04-18-2017, 10:40 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Abdullah9100;

I am saying that we must have hatred in our heart towards the kuffar
What have I done to you, that you should hate me?

In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

Eric
Reply

Eric H
04-18-2017, 10:50 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Abdullah9100;

Yes we are all created by the same God, but the difference between me and you is that I worship one true God and you worship shaitan.
When you study the 99 names of Allah, there is no hate amongst his names. Surely, if you were to worship the 'One True God, then you would strive to take on his attributes for yourself.

In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

Eric
Reply

Muslimah inshal
04-18-2017, 10:57 AM
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatu allahi wa barakatuhu brother and sisters

I'm not trying to offend someone here but it would be better if this conversation stops because it seems not a good conversation due to the brother that doesn't want to understand what other brothers are telling him .
It's just an advice from me .
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-14-2017, 05:48 AM
  2. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 03-13-2017, 05:27 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-27-2016, 08:09 AM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-12-2008, 11:15 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!