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Mustafa16
04-25-2017, 09:46 PM
my parents are divorced, and my father and i are distant. I was considering conversion to Judaism, so I emailed a synagogue, and then decided it wasn't for me and that I was committing a major sin....i reverted to islam and made taubah. i got an email from the rabbi, and got scared and told my dad, (keep in mind, i committed apostasy many times before) he said,
"I wouldn't get mad if you changed faiths. sad definitely, but not mad"
"i think youre just fishing for attention, im not talking to you today."
"religion and faith is not a comfort toy. if you fail to realize that, you have bigger problems than choosing one." i canceled the meeting with the rabbi despite my shyness
i texted him days later, i asked if he was calling me, he said, "no, leave me alone for a while"
I asked him later, he said, "ill think about it," i apologized, he said, "stop it"
he called, and said he had a dossier of everything i had done since middle school, including some illegal things i got in trouble for....he said if i tried to marry one of his friends' daughters after college, he would release it.
later, i asked why he said that. he said, "its the only way i can keep my friends safe"
i asked why he wasn't concerned about others.
he said, "i cant save everyone"
i asked him if i was really that low that no one was supposed to marry me.
he said, "i am in a meeting."
i texted him again out of anger.
he threatened to block my number out of anger.
i blocked his number.
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*charisma*
04-26-2017, 09:03 AM
Assalamu ALaikum

What triggers you to want to apostate?

Its sad that your family is not close. I think that affects you a lot. You need a father figure in your life, especially at this age.
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Mustafa16
04-26-2017, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu ALaikum

What triggers you to want to apostate?

Its sad that your family is not close. I think that affects you a lot. You need a father figure in your life, especially at this age.
I just want to know if my father is right or wrong? btw, yesterday I got into an argument with my father over text, and though I apologized, now we're not talking.
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Silas
04-26-2017, 02:18 PM
This is an outsider's opinion:

Your father is frustrated, but I feel his is being fair and is respecting your decisions. While the marriage issue appears harsh, I think I can understand his reasoning.

When we reach a certain age, we can decide to become adults, or we can decide to become men. And becoming a man involves prudent choice, consistency, honesty, and adopting a value-system. It can also mean sincerely adopting religion (as in we need to choose). I think your father is concerned that you are confused and adrift, and not taking these matters seriously.

I have two sons, and my oldest is 14. He is intellectually gifted, but he confessed to me 6 months ago that he was "not religious". He thought I would be very upset, but I told him that this is something he needs to sincerely choose for himself. The last thing I would want is for him to lie to me and everyone else about his faith. God knows what is in our heart. He has been to Christian churches, and has attended lectures and presentations at our local masjid, and has even been exposed to Bahai (he has some friends who follow this faith--this is a very diverse community). I suspect that he will ultimately make a choice, but this is not something I can force.

My recommendation is to write down your sincere thoughts on these matters, and schedule a time to speak with your father. Maybe over a lunch, just you and him.
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Mustafa16
05-15-2017, 08:34 PM
I graduated high school today. My dad hasn't talked to me in two weeks, ever since I told him the day after talking to him that he blackmailed me in a serious manner and I would not talk to him until further notice, and that I would consider who was right....a few hours later....i said sorry and said i changed my mind, he got mad....he hasn't talked to me since...i tried texting him, he threatened to block me. today i told him i graudated. he said congratulations, and that he didn't want to talk to me today, when i asked if he wanted to talk.
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Mustafa16
05-15-2017, 08:35 PM
I wrote in an earlier version of the previous post that I wanted to die.....the mods seemed to have blocked it.....
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Re.TiReD
05-15-2017, 09:11 PM
You're seeking attention, it's plain as day. Your father doesn't know how to deal with that. If he did he wouldn't be burying his head in the sand and choosing to ignore you rather talking things through. What I'd like to know is what's making you feel this way about religion and why do you feel as though you want to die? You say so casually that you've left Islam many times before, what is it that's getting you so confused and indicisive?
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Mustafa16
05-15-2017, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by Re.TiReD
You're seeking attention, it's plain as day. Your father doesn't know how to deal with that. If he did he wouldn't be burying his head in the sand and choosing to ignore you rather talking things through. What I'd like to know is what's making you feel this way about religion and why do you feel as though you want to die? You say so casually that you've left Islam many times before, what is it that's getting you so confused and indicisive?
I am not seeking attention. I was facing an identity crisis due to the persecution of my jamaat in Turkey by President Erdogan despite the overwhelming majority of Sunni Muslims supporting Erdogan (of Turkey) (especially arabs), and the lack of care by muslims in american masjids, together with turks visiting the ordinary masjids, many people hating me in my jamaat due to my past mistakes, my social anxiety issues in going to past places of worship, especially due to autism and fear of ostracization by others in my jamaat, me reading things online which suggest the jamaat is guilty for what it is accused of (attempting a military coup in Turkey by infiltrating the military), me feeling betrayed by the OIC due to their declaration of my jamaat as a terror organization (and also saudi arabia feels the same way), my disagreement with my jamaat on their pacifism, my lack of muslim role models (especially men), and made worse by the fact that I have autism. also, i cant join "just islam" or "Just the quran and sunnah" becuase those people support a ruthless corrupt tyrant....i also think in black and white due to autism, i dont get islamic instruction.....my mother is not religious, my sister isn't (i dont even know if my sister is muslim, and btw, she married a non muslim), and my brother doesnt talk to me in years, i am ashamed of the state of the muslim world (in human rights)....
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fromelsewhere
05-15-2017, 10:26 PM
How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Why are you putting the weight of the world on your shoulders? Take a deep breath, relax, enjoy life, let the people in Turkey (and elsewhere) sort out their problems by themselves, don't worry too much.

Peace.
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Re.TiReD
05-15-2017, 10:29 PM
If you think in black and white due to autism maybe the best course of action for you would be to disassociate yourself from all or any groups and practise Islam the simplest way you know how. Take it slow. Perform daily prayers, recite Quran....talk to a therapist or counsellor or somebody.

Typing that you want to die on a public forum IS seeking attention....or maybe you're crying out for help, idk. I hope you can get the help you need offline
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Mustafa16
05-15-2017, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by Re.TiReD
If you think in black and white due to autism maybe the best course of action for you would be to disassociate yourself from all or any groups and practise Islam the simplest way you know how. Take it slow. Perform daily prayers, recite Quran....talk to a therapist or counsellor or somebody.

Typing that you want to die on a public forum IS seeking attention....or maybe you're crying out for help, idk. I hope you can get the help you need offline
so just learn online without other people? is it ok for me to ask a local imam to help me find a wife when im older without me participating me in their activties?
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Re.TiReD
05-15-2017, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
so just learn online without other people? is it ok for me to ask a local imam to help me find a wife when im older without me participating me in their activties?
If associating with groups is causing this overwhelming anxiety that is resulting in you leaving Islam or wanting to then wouldn't you agree that not participating is the best option? At least for the time being. You can learn privately with a tutor or maybe even an online class.

I don't know how okay that is, maybe think about marriage only once you have your life figured out.
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Mustafa16
05-16-2017, 05:19 PM
I texted my father today asking if he was gonna call, he said he might if I leave him alone, and that he is still keeping his promise (that, if I tried marrying one of his friends' daughters, he would leak the information on all the bad things I've done since middle school, including some illegal things like hitting my mom in 8th and 9th grade, which I ended up in the mental hospital for, and some creepy things, like trying to befriend young children because my peers were not accepting of me). Honestly, I think my father is a disgusting human being, and I don't understand why in Islam we have to maintain ties of kinship.....
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Alpha Dude
05-16-2017, 06:12 PM
Your father said he might call you if you "leave him alone". This indicates that you must be constantly agitating him with your messages and calls.

It seems quite clear that, for the benefit of both you and your father, that you need to maintain a distance. This is a man who you feel causes you pain - so, why constantly seek his approval and be fixated with him?

Just let things be. If and when he calls, you be kind to him and in sha Allah build your relationship slowly. "Maintaining ties of kinship" does not mean you hound and force someone to be close to you.
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Mustafa16
05-16-2017, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Your father said he might call you if you "leave him alone". This indicates that you must be constantly agitating him with your messages and calls.

It seems quite clear that, for the benefit of both you and your father, that you need to maintain a distance. This is a man who you feel causes you pain - so, why constantly seek his approval and be fixated with him?

Just let things be. If and when he calls, you be kind to him and in sha Allah build your relationship slowly. "Maintaining ties of kinship" does not mean you hound and force someone to be close to you.
but what if he releases all my data and secrets on my past juvenile deliquency (including some illegal things I did, like hitting my mother, and some creepy things, like trying to befriend children) if I marry one of his friends's daughters? is he serious? @Alpha Dude
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Re.TiReD
05-16-2017, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
but what if he releases all my data and secrets on my past juvenile deliquency (including some illegal things I did, like hitting my mother, and some creepy things, like trying to befriend children) if I marry one of his friends's daughters? is he serious? @Alpha Dude
Are you for real? I hope your father is deadly serious about telling them. Unless you've sought forgiveness, moved on and really reformed. But if you're still a little mentally unhinged then for the sake of whoever you intend to marry, I hope he tells them everything.

I can't tell if you're trolling or need serious help.
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Mustafa16
05-16-2017, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Re.TiReD
Are you for real? I hope your father is deadly serious about telling them. Unless you've sought forgiveness, moved on and really reformed. But if you're still a little mentally unhinged then for the sake of whoever you intend to marry, I hope he tells them everything.

I can't tell if you're trolling or need serious help.
i can assure you, im not trolling. why do you think he should tell them everything? what have i done wrong? he hasn't mentioned apostasy as a reason, rather he claims I am "an attention seeker". and he says, "I cant save everyone" and what exactly is reform to you? beating myself with a whip like the shiites? i have already apologized to him numerous times, and swore never to do it again. EDIT: @*charisma* sister, please put my mind at ease and help me stop worrying....
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Re.TiReD
05-16-2017, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
i can assure you, im not trolling. why do you think he should tell them everything? what have i done wrong? he hasn't mentioned apostasy as a reason, rather he claims I am "an attention seeker". and he says, "I cant save everyone" and what exactly is reform to you? beating myself with a whip like the shiites? i have already apologized to him numerous times, and swore never to do it again.
Because I think every girl deserves to know if she's marrying a former juvenile delinquent who may or may not have changed his ways.

Either way, you've got your priorities messed up if worrying about what your dad will or will not tell people is your main concern. Work on improving yourself as a person, fix up. If people don't find out what you used to be like from your dad now, they may well find out in 10 years time from a different source. Your goal should be to make sure that when that happens, you can look back and say, that's the person I used to be, I've fixed up and I'm a changed person now, a stronger person.

As it stands, you may have changed but it just seems to me as though you're battling different demons now. You sound nowhere near ready for marriage. So try to stop worrying about it
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Serinity
05-16-2017, 08:34 PM
:salam:

Stop worrying about marriage soo much. Finish your degree, and find your Job. yes I know it is hard.. I find it hard too.

But you gotta earn it.

Allahu alam.
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Mustafa16
05-16-2017, 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by Re.TiReD
Because I think every girl deserves to know if she's marrying a former juvenile delinquent who may or may not have changed his ways.

Either way, you've got your priorities messed up if worrying about what your dad will or will not tell people is your main concern. Work on improving yourself as a person, fix up. If people don't find out what you used to be like from your dad now, they may well find out in 10 years time from a different source. Your goal should be to make sure that when that happens, you can look back and say, that's the person I used to be, I've fixed up and I'm a changed person now, a stronger person.

As it stands, you may have changed but it just seems to me as though you're battling different demons now. You sound nowhere near ready for marriage. So try to stop worrying about it
I wasn't planning on getting married now, or anytime soon. I KNOW I'm not ready to get married. I'm only 18, and the norm in my family and in my community (jamaat) is to get a college education, and then get married. Which means I am talking about threats of what my dad may do FOUR YEARS FROM NOW (a bachelor's degree takes 4 years to complete).
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Mustafa16
05-16-2017, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

Stop worrying about marriage soo much. Finish your degree, and find your Job. yes I know it is hard.. I find it hard too.

But you gotta earn it.

Allahu alam.
but would my dad have forgotten about it by the time I get my degree?
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Serinity
05-16-2017, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
but would my dad have forgotten about it by the time I get my degree?
Forgotten what? Your past? If you have repented and done your best to be the best Muslim you can be, then he can't shame you for those sins.
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Mustafa16
05-16-2017, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Forgotten what? Your past? If you have repented and done your best to be the best Muslim you can be, then he can't shame you for those sins.
my father's not a traditional Muslim. He doesn't think in terms of Islam vs kufr/disbelief, or Islamic behavior versus jahil behavior. He is very westernized, and has even said he is proud to be an American citizen and has often shown his disapproval of the Muslim world. When I pointed out that cousins marrying was halal (a very long time ago, when I wanted to be married to my cousin), he pointed out matters of dunya as a counterargument. Simply put, to sum it up, he just said, "this is the modern world, I don't like it, end of story." He also considers religion a personal matter, and often thinks in term of worldly things, ("when you get married, son, they'll ask how much you make, and how many degrees you have,") doesn't think there is such a thing as a Muslim world, because there are too many political differences, and says, when I ask him why the Muslims dont unite and crush their enemies "what are you going to do? attack countries with nuclear weapons? do you think there is even such a thing as a Christian world? what are you, ISIS?" and gets very angry with me and doesn't talk to me for days. he;s religious, but in a different way. he has even said he supports rights for gay people, even though he considers it immoral and disgusting....now answer me this....do you think a man who has fallen so much in love with the dunya to think in terms of "repentance, Islam, and piety is the most important" for marrying me off? he's very....let's just say...practical turkish people (or at least gulenists) have a very nationalistic, materialistic, and worldly understanding of religion and morality.
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Mustafa16
05-16-2017, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Forgotten what? Your past? If you have repented and done your best to be the best Muslim you can be, then he can't shame you for those sins.
he also probably isnt even thinking in terms of sin! (me committing apostasy)...he;s probably just practicing "namus" as they like to call it. or just me being a nuisance.
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*charisma*
05-16-2017, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
@*charisma* sister, please put my mind at ease and help me stop worrying....
Bro, you still have a lot of time to make changes in your life inshallah before you get married. I think when your dad makes these threats to you, you feel a lot of anxiety and start thinking of the worst for your future and therefore you call and text him a lot apologizing and stuff. He probably gets even more agitated because of that. For us non-autistic people, sometimes we need space, especially when we are upset. When we don't get that space, it's really constricting on us. I think this is how your father is feeling when you're constantly contacting him, even if your intentions mean well. I don't know your father, but I'm sure he loves you, he just doesn't know how to deal with you because he isn't in your life so he says the things which will affect you most. In any case, give him some time. Don't think about it so much. If he wanted to be heartless and really hurt you, he would have already told everyone about your issues. He will be more rational inshallah if you just give him some space. LATER ON when you are truly ready for marriage, and if you still have issues, you will have the courage to tell your future wife about them yourself. That's when you'll know you are ready for marriage. But until then, just breathe and relax and don't worry about anything. Focus on your education, take up a sport, or learn some new hobbies. And always put your trust in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala because that will ease some of your anxiety..nothing can harm you without Allah's permission.
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Mustafa16
05-16-2017, 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Bro, you still have a lot of time to make changes in your life inshallah before you get married. I think when your dad makes these threats to you, you feel a lot of anxiety and start thinking of the worst for your future and therefore you call and text him a lot apologizing and stuff. He probably gets even more agitated because of that. For us non-autistic people, sometimes we need space, especially when we are upset. When we don't get that space, it's really constricting on us. I think this is how your father is feeling when you're constantly contacting him, even if your intentions mean well. I don't know your father, but I'm sure he loves you, he just doesn't know how to deal with you because he isn't in your life so he says the things which will affect you most. In any case, give him some time. Don't think about it so much. If he wanted to be heartless and really hurt you, he would have already told everyone about your issues. He will be more rational inshallah if you just give him some space. LATER ON when you are truly ready for marriage, and if you still have issues, you will have the courage to tell your future wife about them yourself. That's when you'll know you are ready for marriage. But until then, just breathe and relax and don't worry about anything. Focus on your education, take up a sport, or learn some new hobbies. And always put your trust in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala because that will ease some of your anxiety..nothing can harm you without Allah's permission.
jazakallaha khair sister, your answer was much appreciated...
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nourkhair
05-17-2017, 08:32 AM
Originally Posted by Silas
This is an outsider's opinion:

Your father is frustrated, but I feel his is being fair and is respecting your decisions. While the marriage issue appears harsh, I think I can understand his reasoning.

When we reach a certain age, we can decide to become adults, or we can decide to become men. And becoming a man involves prudent choice, consistency, honesty, and adopting a value-system. It can also mean sincerely adopting religion (as in we need to choose). I think your father is concerned that you are confused and adrift, and not taking these matters seriously.

I have two sons, and my oldest is 14. He is intellectually gifted, but he confessed to me 6 months ago that he was "not religious". He thought I would be very upset, but I told him that this is something he needs to sincerely choose for himself. The last thing I would want is for him to lie to me and everyone else about his faith. God knows what is in our heart. He has been to Christian churches, and has attended lectures and presentations at our local masjid, and has even been exposed to Bahai (he has some friends who follow this faith--this is a very diverse community). I suspect that he will ultimately make a choice, but this is not something I can force.

My recommendation is to write down your sincere thoughts on these matters, and schedule a time to speak with your father. Maybe over a lunch, just you and him.
Sorry that you think that its only your childs choice every choice your child makes is directly or indirectly with your involvement. Untill your child is an adult you have to guide them thats what parents do. If yourself are not taking means to guide your child because its his choice then outsiders will...someone else will help him make big choices. Loving someone is not cling to them or letting them go its telling them when the are wrong or right and being there in major life events. So you are young and still learning also you have a dependable adult to guide you like i did when i was young same thing happened to me . Some one told me Depend only on Allah. Allah is your best friend. Try depending on Allah and ask for guidance because he is the one that made everything and everyone so no can deem you unworthy because Allah made you not them even your father. Please try it out and let me know how it work.
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Silas
05-17-2017, 02:06 PM
we do guide him as best we can, but he is extremely intelligent and stubborn. His brother is young, more typical, and religious.

You are correct in that we should not simply cast our children out into a sea of uncertainty and let them make all their own, uninformed, decisions. But in the end, they must freely decide (as the rule of "no compulsion in religion": Quran 2:256)
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Mustafa16
05-18-2017, 12:13 AM
I emailed my father yesterday letting him know my phone was broken and he could not call me. Then I sent another email saying I would get a new phone. Then I sent a text with the new phone saying the sim card was transferred, and he could talk to me. He said he didn't want to, and to stop texting him. I asked what was wrong, and apologized. He said, "stop texting me" Today, he didn't call, and it was getting late, so I sent him a text about my grades, and exam results. I asked if he was calling that day. He said no, and to stop texting him. I lost my temper and said he was holding my mistakes over my head, and "what do you want me to do? beat myself with a whip like a shiite?" he said, "you are one text away from being blocked. stop texting me!"
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*charisma*
05-18-2017, 03:13 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I emailed my father yesterday letting him know my phone was broken and he could not call me. Then I sent another email saying I would get a new phone. Then I sent a text with the new phone saying the sim card was transferred, and he could talk to me. He said he didn't want to, and to stop texting him. I asked what was wrong, and apologized. He said, "stop texting me" Today, he didn't call, and it was getting late, so I sent him a text about my grades, and exam results. I asked if he was calling that day. He said no, and to stop texting him. I lost my temper and said he was holding my mistakes over my head, and "what do you want me to do? beat myself with a whip like a shiite?" he said, "you are one text away from being blocked. stop texting me!"
Bro, you are contacting your father a lot. I understand your frustration and fixation on what he said to you. It may have been better for him not to have said it, but you cannot control what he does; you can only control what you do. He needs his space, you have to respect and give him that even though you're feeling bothered by what he's doing. I'm sure that if you do not contact your father, he will come around and contact you in his given time, but you can't force this interaction. In fact, by you doing this it might just be pushing him away.
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