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noraina
05-09-2017, 12:13 PM
Assalamu alaykum

I was going to post this in another thread but I didn't want to hijack it, lol, so I decided to start over here on a subject I've been researching a lot.

We need to be very careful when it comes to the food we consume, because it leaves a footprint not just on our health, but our soul, our actions, the environment, the animals involved.

As Muslims we need to ensure our food is tayyib as well as halal. I've often wondered if just because the meat was slaughtered according to dhahibah requirements is it halal, or is there something beyond ritual slaughter? Halal is used almost synonymously with 'meat' and the way in which is was slaughtered, but it is a term so much more encompassing and meaningful than that.

Okay, I know there is a difference of opinion on this but if we know we can make a change for the better for any living creature, then it will surely be rewarded in'sha'Allah.

Yes, I have a flock of chickens so I'm especially passionate about this - bear with me :D But I always feels that the farm animals such as cows or sheep or chickens are so ignored and unrepresented. Everyone seems to focus on cats or dogs, or wild and exotic birds, and the animals which arguably have much more impact in our lives are regarded as nothing more than a commodity, when they are exactly the same - a living creature.

Take a look at broiler chickens - a 'natural' chicken does not reach slaughter size until there are 6-8 months old at least, and yet broiler chickens have been bred to reach that size in around 6 weeks. They often suffer from horrific health problems and so the chicken we eat produced in this way died as a very sick, unhealthy bird living a miserable life. I know someone who adopted a couple of broilers wanting to give them a good life - they didn't survive beyond eight months despite being allowed to free range and live as a proper chicken - when a healthy chicken can live 6-10 years. :(

This is a very interesting article, definitely read it and see what you all think:

http://www.marcmanley.com/beyond-hal...food-in-islam/
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Umm♥Layth
05-09-2017, 01:23 PM
Well, I too am very passionate about this subject and part of my life's work is to educate Muslims on the subject. Unfortunately most don't care and convenience is much more important. The moment that one suggests eating meat less frequently is a very good step in the right direction as far as health, environmental betterment and well being of animals, Muslims tend to lose interest. Then, when they realize that grassfed and pastured meats cost much more than abused, grainfed meats, they REALLY lose interest. "I can't, it is too expensive".

Whatever doesn't impact a person directly and instantly.... they tend to not care about.

Have you ever heard of mercy slaughter? They are the perfect example of how an animal should be slaughtered and treated. You can see their animals are all pastured and allowed to roam free and they just submit to the slaughter when it is time. No struggle, no panic and lots of compassion.



and let's not forget:

“Oh, you people, eat from the earth what is halal and tayyib, and follow not the footsteps of the Shaytan …”
(Surat al-Baqarah 2:168)
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noraina
05-09-2017, 02:00 PM
That was interesting to watch, and it always make me smile when I see animals running around in their natural environment, being able to do what they should do - dare I say it is their right to do.

As far as expense goes, yes organic or pastured meat, or free-range eggs, is a little more expensive - but then it's not going to be anything bad if you eat meat maybe twice a week rather than everyday, and it will probably hugely benefit your health.

We don't educate ourselves enough about our food, where it comes and the Islamic perspective on it. These issues are a little uncomfortable and tbh distressing to read about as it completely changes what before I had not thought once about, and once I had learned just how awful factory-farming is, there was no way I could ignore that feeling that something *is* wrong and, more than that, I can do something about it.

In the time of our Prophet :saws: they ate a much simpler diet and meat only occasionally. I feel in this day and age we feel entitled to a lot of things including meat and eggs absolutely all of the time, fruits out of season, ect without realising it's impact. I'm not saying this is wrong, but it needs to be done responsibly and with compassion.
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Bobbyflay23
05-09-2017, 04:12 PM
If your talking about my thread I tried eating mcdonalds yesterday and I guess after eating only chicken with halal labels for so long Idk McDonald's tastes disgusting now so Ima stick to what i was eating before and either way I'm on a diet but the circle of scholars in USA and Canada say it is permissible but I found that I don't like it anymore
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Umm♥Layth
05-09-2017, 04:57 PM
Sheikhs don't know EVERYTHING and the Ummah needs to stop treating them like the one and only go-to source. It takes a huge amount of dedication and time to educate oneself of food sources and the effects it has on humans on a physical and spiritual level. I know very few sheikhs who are aware of what our food goes through to get to us (or who even care for that matter) and even fewer who have a smidgen of knowledge on nutrition. This isn't their forte or dedication in life so they make their rulings based on the ASSUMPTION that US & Canada are Christian countries who follow proper food sourcing rules when in actuality they do not. The closest you will get in the US & Canada is by buying all kosher or finding Amish or Mennonite Christians who do adhere to proper food sourcing rules.

Muslims are eating from restaurants who handle pork regularly. Their meat gets grilled on the same grills as pork and fried in the same oil. No one ever stops to think about that.

In Islam we are NOT to follow anyone blindly at any point. Simply not eating pork doesn't cut it. You have to know what you are putting into your body regardless of fatwas as you and only you are responsible for what you do to your body (who will testify against you on day of judgement by the way).

Animals will also testify against humans by the way! ;)
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Bobbyflay23
05-09-2017, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by Umm[emoji813
Layth;2961278]Sheikhs don't know EVERYTHING and the Ummah needs to stop treating them like the one and only go-to source. It takes a huge amount of dedication and time to educate oneself of food sources and the effects it has on humans on a physical and spiritual level. I know very few sheikhs who are aware of what our food goes through to get to us (or who even care for that matter) and even fewer who have a smidgen of knowledge on nutrition. This isn't their forte or dedication in life so they make their rulings based on the ASSUMPTION that US & Canada are Christian countries who follow proper food sourcing rules when in actuality they do not. The closest you will get in the US & Canada is by buying all kosher or finding Amish or Mennonite Christians who do adhere to proper food sourcing rules.

Muslims are eating from restaurants who handle pork regularly. Their meat gets grilled on the same grills as pork and fried in the same oil. No one ever stops to think about that.

In Islam we are NOT to follow anyone blindly at any point. Simply not eating pork doesn't cut it. You have to know what you are putting into your body regardless of fatwas as you and only you are responsible for what you do to your body (who will testify against you on day of judgement by the way).

Animals will also testify against humans by the way! ;)
Ahh yes I don't mean to be arguementive but like according to Islamic rulings everything seems fine vegatarians say similar things I feel as if maybe it's because you feel for the animals but what your saying is true we should not support them but boycotting it doesn't mean it's haram to eat rasool saw predicted gmos saying they will change allahs creation would u think this could be used as proof it's haram? Also do u think if I ate like brands that are known to be healthy then it's ok because the slaughtering is considered halal but if your saying is true about the health conditions of the chicken do you think it's okay to eat from places like subway or brands that are known to be healthy?
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Umm♥Layth
05-09-2017, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Ahh yes I don't mean to be arguementive but like according to Islamic rulings everything seems fine vegatarians say similar things I feel as if maybe it's because you feel for the animals but what your saying is true we should not support them but boycotting it doesn't mean it's haram to eat rasool saw predicted gmos saying they will change allahs creation would u think this could be used as proof it's haram? Also do u think if I ate like brands that are known to be healthy then it's ok because the slaughtering is considered halal but if your saying is true about the health conditions of the chicken do you think it's okay to eat from places like subway or brands that are known to be healthy?
No worries, this is a discussion forum. If we went around just saying "thank you for your input" we wouldn't have much going on would we? lol

It isn't so much that I feel for the animals, I'm perfectly fine with the idea of animals being eaten, however, I understand the implications of factory farming and commercial farming (mono agriculture). Land has to be treated a certain way, animals have to be treated a certain way. The amount of meat people eat today will actually deteriorate the earth in such a way, where there will be nothing left for your grandchildren and great grandchildren. It will happen that quickly. Our topsoil is almost gone. How many of you know what top soil is and how it is made and what it means for humanity?

Ignorance can be bliss.... or it can be complete destruction. Our JOB AND DUTY as the progeny of Adam (as) is to be vicegerents of the earth. We are supposed to take care of what we have and eating non halal meats is one of the major step sin the wrong direction.

Do you have netflix bro bobbyflay? I can recommend a few documentaries that will explain all of this much better than I could on a forum.

You asked some good questions and one of them will take me a book to answer lol, but the other. Would I eat at subway or places like that? Nope. Did you know that subway's meat has about 50% cellulose? That's wood pulp. You are not meant to eat wood... Up until recently, they used yoga mat materials in their food also lol. So much for "eat fresh".
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Bobbyflay23
05-09-2017, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by Umm[emoji813
Layth;2961292]No worries, this is a discussion forum. If we went around just saying "thank you for your input" we wouldn't have much going on would we? lol

It isn't so much that I feel for the animals, I'm perfectly fine with the idea of animals being eaten, however, I understand the implications of factory farming and commercial farming (mono agriculture). Land has to be treated a certain way, animals have to be treated a certain way. The amount of meat people eat today will actually deteriorate the earth in such a way, where there will be nothing left for your grandchildren and great grandchildren. It will happen that quickly. Our topsoil is almost gone. How many of you know what top soil is and how it is made and what it means for humanity?

Ignorance can be bliss.... or it can be complete destruction. Our JOB AND DUTY as the progeny of Adam (as) is to be vicegerents of the earth. We are supposed to take care of what we have and eating non halal meats is one of the major step sin the wrong direction.

Do you have netflix bro bobbyflay? I can recommend a few documentaries that will explain all of this much better than I could on a forum.

You asked some good questions and one of them will take me a book to answer lol, but the other. Would I eat at subway or places like that? Nope. Did you know that subway's meat has about 50% cellulose? That's wood pulp. You are not meant to eat wood... Up until recently, they used yoga mat materials in their food also lol. So much for "eat fresh".
No I don't have Netflix and also what about brands known to be organic with like organic labels and stuff yes I hear about all this dirt stuff I have a class that is literally based on dirt and the teacher rants about bad farming practices
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Umm♥Layth
05-09-2017, 09:33 PM
The organic brands are not necessarily halal. The animals die before they are slaughtered (stunned) and this is what I was talking about when I say that people take that hadeeth and run with it.

In the times of the prophet (saw) all Christians and Jews hand slaughtered and drained the blood. THAT is why he didn't question it (I assume). Machine slaughter and stunning wasn't practiced by people of the book and it still isn't practiced by ACTUAL people of the book. It is practiced by big meat companies trying to cheat to make more money. They do this by their raising method and slaughter method and the blood isn't drained properly.

If you could find a Christian or Jewish farm and get your supply from there, it would be considered halal to eat (you will need to ask about their slaughter method), but definitely not the store purchased, even the organic brands.

The only brand I am aware of the could possibly be acceptable is crecent farms and their meat can be found at certain walmart locations.

http://crescenthalal.com/halal-certification/

They are supposedly grassfed and organic as well as halal. So they technically fulfill both the halal AND tayyib requirements for a Muslim's consumption. I have never tried their chicken though.
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noraina
05-09-2017, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Ahh yes I don't mean to be arguementive but like according to Islamic rulings everything seems fine vegatarians say similar things I feel as if maybe it's because you feel for the animals but what your saying is true we should not support them but boycotting it doesn't mean it's haram to eat rasool saw predicted gmos saying they will change allahs creation would u think this could be used as proof it's haram? Also do u think if I ate like brands that are known to be healthy then it's ok because the slaughtering is considered halal but if your saying is true about the health conditions of the chicken do you think it's okay to eat from places like subway or brands that are known to be healthy?
No worries about being argumentative, the reason many of us are here is to take part in discussions and learn in'sha'Allah.

Unfortunately, most big companies todays are driven solely for profit - any claims of being 'healthy' or even 'organic' need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. A lot of advertising is vague and ambiguous, leaving most consumers unsure about where they stand in terms of non-GMO or animal welfare. Unfortunately these words are used as catchphrases so it is essential to do your research.

Again, we need to look at where it being just 'ritually slaughtered' is enough for us as Muslims. Isn't it important as well for the animals to be reared in a more or less natural environment, and not in a metal cage, being fed wholesome food rather than being pumped with steroids or antibiotics or whatever money-saving nonsense? I really want that assurance that whatever I am eating did not lead a miserable life or suffer or die as a very sick animal.

I have said, what we do will leave a footprint not only on our hearts but the environment. We are kind of caretakers for this earth, and the animals are a blessing from Allah swt for our sustenance, and we should do all we can not to abuse the trust we've been given in'sha'Allah.
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noraina
05-09-2017, 10:02 PM
Also, for anyone who might want to look into purchasing free-range meat, sometimes there are smaller independent farms which provide this. They aren't particularly big corporations or companies, but they provide for their animals well and even if they're not Muslim you might be able to arrange something for the halal slaughter.
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Bobbyflay23
05-09-2017, 10:06 PM
What should I tell my dad because latley he's been buying strictly halal chicken because of me but I recently told him about the fatwa and this is the 3rd or 4th time I changed my mind it might've been the second I don't really remember but I've switched allot he hasn't bought non halal meat yet but still idk what to tell him before cuz he might get annoyed by how frequently I've changed my mind on the subject
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AbdurRahman.
05-09-2017, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
What should I tell my dad because latley he's been buying strictly halal chicken because of me but I recently told him about the fatwa and this is the 3rd or 4th time I changed my mind it might've been the second I don't really remember but I've switched allot he hasn't bought non halal meat yet but still idk what to tell him before cuz he might get annoyed by how frequently I've changed my mind on the subject
hi bro

i think you shouldn't worry too much about the 'tayyib' part now; zabiha makes it hundred percent halal and it's just the tayyib part in question but here is where you consider your priorities; sometimes maybe keeping good relations with family [like sitting at table eating same food as them] is more important?

another thing is, are you praying five time regularly? i think you might be a new practicing muslim so you need to take it easy .. and jumping in at the deep end fussing and worrying about tayyyib too much could overwhwelm you!

and whats this about you eating mcdonalds?? that's haram yuck!!; your eating haram and doing your head in over 'tayyib' lol that's certainly not getting your priorities right is it?? :Emoji46::Emoji46:
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Bobbyflay23
05-09-2017, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
hi bro

i think you shouldn't worry too much about the 'tayyib' part now; zabiha makes it hundred percent halal and it's just the tayyib part in question but here is where you consider your priorities; sometimes maybe keeping good relations with family [like sitting at table eating same food as them] is more important?

another thing is, are you praying five time regularly? i think you might be a new practicing muslim so you need to take it easy .. and jumping in at the deep end fussing and worrying about tayyyib too much could overwhwelm you!

and whats this about you eating mcdonalds?? that's haram yuck!!; your eating haram and doing your head in over 'tayyib' lol that's certainly not getting your priorities right is it?? :Emoji46::Emoji46:
What do you mean haram I only ate chicken isn't it zabiha like you just said your contradicting yourself and I do pray my 5 daily prayers although that doesn't mean I don't have problems with things like arogancy and procrastination and stuff and I just became a practicing Muslim like 2 or 3 months ago so it's not like I'm brand new but I'm still newish
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AbdurRahman.
05-09-2017, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
What do you mean haram I only ate chicken isn't it zabiha like you just said your contradicting yourself and I do pray my 5 daily prayers although that doesn't mean I don't have problems with things like arogancy and procrastination and stuff and I just became a practicing Muslim like 2 or 3 months ago so it's not like I'm brand new but I'm still newish
does mcdonalds sell halal food?
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Bobbyflay23
05-09-2017, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
does mcdonalds sell halal food?
You just said chicken is 100% zabiha and mcdonalds gets there chicken the same way everybody in America gets there chicken except they get it directly from the producer so yea I guess technically they do but according to sister layath or noraina I should obstain from it because the scholars arnt being truthful wich I can believe I guess because there are scholars out there that come out with fatwas like giving you the right to hit women so I guess I can believe that it's not zabiha but it does go under the Islamic ruling for how it's slaughtered I'm just kinda confused at this point but I should stay away from gray areas so yeaaaa idk it doesn't matter just no more eating from outside I'll stick to fish and halal branded foods
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Umm♥Layth
05-10-2017, 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
hi bro

i think you shouldn't worry too much about the 'tayyib' part now; zabiha makes it hundred percent halal and it's just the tayyib part in question but here is where you consider your priorities; sometimes maybe keeping good relations with family [like sitting at table eating same food as them] is more important?

another thing is, are you praying five time regularly? i think you might be a new practicing muslim so you need to take it easy .. and jumping in at the deep end fussing and worrying about tayyyib too much could overwhwelm you!

and whats this about you eating mcdonalds?? that's haram yuck!!; your eating haram and doing your head in over 'tayyib' lol that's certainly not getting your priorities right is it?? :Emoji46::Emoji46:
Tayyib is actually just as important. You are not supposed to prioritize one over the other one. The slaughter is only one part of making meat halal. I understand that because the brother is young, you are advising to prioritize and keep good relations with his family. However, it would be wrong to downplay something that shouldn't be downplayed and that the majority of the Ummah downplays which is why we are in the place we are in right now.

What you eat will affect your relationship with Allah, full stop. This is something that people have understood until recent times. For me personally, my ability to keep salah and my direct connection with Allah changed drastically when I switched from just properly slaughtered (Zabihah certified only) to halal and tayyib (properly slaughtered, humanely raised and sourced). This can never be understood until it is experienced. It was like a veil was removed and from that point forth I have seen the world and my experiences in a different light. I understand this is a purely anecdotal evidence, but that's often the case with "religious experiences".
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Umm♥Layth
05-10-2017, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
What do you mean haram I only ate chicken isn't it zabiha like you just said your contradicting yourself and I do pray my 5 daily prayers although that doesn't mean I don't have problems with things like arogancy and procrastination and stuff and I just became a practicing Muslim like 2 or 3 months ago so it's not like I'm brand new but I'm still newish
Brother, I think you are on the right path and questioning the right things. Keep at it :) and ask Allah for clarity and ease in your efforts and affairs.
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Zeal
05-10-2017, 09:36 PM
Interesting conversation here. I thought I saw someone mention documentaries here and if you see the destruction in the land it causes, it's difficult to believe this industry isn't full of haram besides the slaughtering methods ofc.

https://youtu.be/3B-_xH0Xmho

Here's a great snippet from cowspiracey
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