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TDWT
05-13-2017, 03:56 PM
I was wondering, someone told me this about a murdered person

I already told you, the life which is taken before it's time, via murder - is compensated by Allah in the afterlife, according to the way the non believer lived their life - they are also (according to some scholars) given a type of test which will determine their status in the afterlife - ie: hell fire or heaven. So again - here you find Mercy of Allah is prevalent, and Allah says in the Qur'an that HE does not judge any soul unfairly - and HE is the best judge of what is fair and what is not.


Is this true?
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TDWT
05-13-2017, 05:48 PM
@ZeeshanParvez

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noraina
05-13-2017, 06:12 PM
Assalamu alaykum,

Of course, Allah swt is completely just and merciful. Any injustice committed against *anyone* will be recompensed in the afterlife. Even if a sparrow was dealt with unjustly, it will be given justice on the Day of Judgement subhanAllah.

We need to remember as well as Merciful Allah swt is also Just - two related but separate concepts. So any injustice done to any living creature will be dealt with in a fair manner. And as Muslims we always need to be the example of mercy and justice.

Any other factors, such as religion or sins they committed themselves, would be another issue.

And as for the finer details about the accuracy of that statement, I don't know.

Allah swt knows best.
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TDWT
05-13-2017, 06:36 PM
I was actually asking, does this mean a murdered non muslim could enter heaven?
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*charisma*
05-13-2017, 06:49 PM
Assalamu ALaikum

Bro, the answers to your questions are basic knowledge. I notice you create these threads without the comprehension of what anyone tells you and you end up beating around the bush and inquiring knowledge of which has no benefit for anyone. I'm assuming your quote is from a conversation you're having with someone else, in which case, go to the sources --Quran and Hadith-- to verify the truth. I think it's rude to have someone take the time to explain things to you, and for you in turn to go and seek validation from his/her equals. Seek validation from a scholar instead or take some islamic classes. You're going by word of mouth.
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Simple_Person
05-13-2017, 06:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
I was actually asking, does this mean a murdered non muslim could enter heaven?
Brother you don't get it. The "JUST" part, means whatever happens if he enters paradise or hell, THERE WILL BE DONE NO INJUSTICE TO THAT INDIVIDUAL!! We do not know if he/she will enter paradise or hellfire. I mean look at the questions that you are preoccupied, as if you already have granted paradise just because you say you are Muslim. Worry about yourself, Muslims and people of other faiths whatever they will end up is not of your worries.
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TDWT
05-13-2017, 07:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu ALaikum

Bro, the answers to your questions are basic knowledge. I notice you create these threads without the comprehension of what anyone tells you and you end up beating around the bush and inquiring knowledge of which has no benefit for anyone. I'm assuming your quote is from a conversation you're having with someone else, in which case, go to the sources --Quran and Hadith-- to verify the truth. I think it's rude to have someone take the time to explain things to you, and for you in turn to go and seek validation from his/her equals. Seek validation from a scholar instead or take some islamic classes. You're going by word of mouth.
No listen, the thing is, the person I am talking to just told me that and hasn't backed up their claim/explanation with evidence, which is why I am asking.

I know the general rule is muslims-heaven, non muslims-hell, but I was asking about murdered ones.
Reply

Simple_Person
05-13-2017, 07:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
No listen, the thing is, the person I am talking to just told me that and hasn't backed up their claim/explanation with evidence, which is why I am asking.

I know the general rule is muslims-heaven, non muslims-hell, but I was asking about murdered ones.
AGAIN, a non-Muslim killing a Muslim OR a Muslim killing a non-Muslim, in both case unjustly, Allah is JUST. In other words, NO injustice will be done to either of the victims. Nothing more needs to be explained. If that person cannot understand this concept of "NO injustice will be done to ANYONE if they died as Muslim or Christian or Jew or even atheist.", then just excuse yourself from the discussion as it doesn't lead to no where.
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*charisma*
05-13-2017, 08:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
No listen, the thing is, the person I am talking to just told me that and hasn't backed up their claim/explanation with evidence, which is why I am asking.

I know the general rule is muslims-heaven, non muslims-hell, but I was asking about murdered ones.
Rightttt...and how is he supposed to know about the fate of each individual nonmuslim that dies?? Again you're asking about things only known to ALlah subhanahu wa ta'ala which brings no benefit to you whether you know or don't know.
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Serinity
05-13-2017, 08:19 PM
:salam:

NO injustice will be done. Allah will do no one injustice.
Reply

Bobbyflay23
05-14-2017, 01:26 AM
Yea I understand that good deeds go away because they wherent done for the sake of allah so if non Muslim does somthing it makes no difference but if they're going to hell anyways what will trial and tirbulatuon be compensated with would they be saved from certain punishments in the hell fire or would there punishment be decreased? I know all injustices will not happen I just want to know if allah said how he will serve his justice in these cases
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Simple_Person
05-14-2017, 02:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Yea I understand that good deeds go away because they wherent done for the sake of allah so if non Muslim does somthing it makes no difference but if they're going to hell anyways what will trial and tirbulatuon be compensated with would they be saved from certain punishments in the hell fire or would there punishment be decreased? I know all injustices will not happen I just want to know if allah said how he will serve his justice in these cases
What does it matter? What you are asking is like the story of the young people of the cave when people say they were X and the last one was their dog and others saying they were Y amount of people and the other was their dog. It is useless information.

There is a reason Allah does not guide some people. That being said if injustice is done to them in this world JUSTICE WILL BE GIVEN TO THEM in the next. Will they end up paradise or hell fire Allah knows best. Is it relevant to know if their punishment will be less if they end up in the hell fire?..Allah knows best and AGAIN the case of the young people of the cave and their dog. Useless knowledge as it will not benefit you. Going to hell fire and ending up in hell 1 or hell 7 there is no difference..a loser is a loser. The ones among them that in the end by Allah's mercy have paid for their sins and have come out then end up in paradise those are the lucky ones. However if one ends up in hell 1 and stays there for eternity is still a loser even though not being in hell 7. You guys ask questions that will not benefit you in any ways. If you say this is for the da'wa again the person you having discussion with if he/she doesn't understand English when you say Allah does NOT do injustice to no one then STOP discussion with that individual as there is a reason why Allah doesn't give that individual the understanding of it. Allah has made for us clear that we will encounter such people which means in other words keep your discussion briefly as these people are not really searching rather are here to waste your time and not have a fruitful discussion. Would you keep on watering and taking care of a tomato plant if you KNOW it will NOT give you any tomatoes? No you will not because it does not give you shade as it isn't the size of a tree and it will die when winter comes. In other words time wasted on it and not benefiting from taking care of it.

So ponder a bit more and with every argument ask yourself what is the benefit for me if I know this?
Reply

Bobbyflay23
05-14-2017, 02:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
What does it matter? What you are asking is like the story of the young people of the cave when people say they were X and the last one was their dog and others saying they were Y amount of people and the other was their dog. It is useless information.

There is a reason Allah does not guide some people. That being said if injustice is done to them in this world JUSTICE WILL BE GIVEN TO THEM in the next. Will they end up paradise or hell fire Allah knows best. Is it relevant to know if their punishment will be less if they end up in the hell fire?..Allah knows best and AGAIN the case of the young people of the cave and their dog. Useless knowledge as it will not benefit you. Going to hell fire and ending up in hell 1 or hell 7 there is no difference..a loser is a loser. The ones among them that in the end by Allah's mercy have paid for their sins and have come out then end up in paradise those are the lucky ones. However if one ends up in hell 1 and stays there for eternity is still a loser even though not being in hell 7. You guys ask questions that will not benefit you in any ways. If you say this is for the da'wa again the person you having discussion with if he/she doesn't understand English when you say Allah does NOT do injustice to no one then STOP discussion with that individual as there is a reason why Allah doesn't give that individual the understanding of it. Allah has made for us clear that we will encounter such people which means in other words keep your discussion briefly as these people are not really searching rather are here to waste your time and not have a fruitful discussion. Would you keep on watering and taking care of a tomato plant if you KNOW it will NOT give you any tomatoes? No you will not because it does not give you shade as it isn't the size of a tree and it will die when winter comes. In other words time wasted on it and not benefiting from taking care of it.

So ponder a bit more and with every argument ask yourself what is the benefit for me if I know this?
How is this not benifical knowledge your comparing knowledge that doesn't affect you at all like the color of the shirt the person was wearing to knowledge of knowing if your friend will be with you in paradise or knowingnhow many companions and things like that this
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Simple_Person
05-14-2017, 03:16 AM
Brother, NO injustice will be done to any one. Our OWN fitrath is already proof enough against us. The body itself for example has certain habits when reaching critical stages in life. For example, when we speak of hyperthermia the body starts to shiver to create motion to warm up the body. When we are holding our breath we tend to grasp for air after some time even if we are under water.

In these days, we see so many thing that go against the fitrah and i take myself as an example. I did not notice many things with my eyes as being wrong. For example women naked but dressed. I in the past saw it as something normal. But when seeing people gather around somebody wounded and NOBODY calling a ambulance or if somebody needed help and nobody helping that individual, or people having a fight and nobody trying to stop the fight..this was like a debilitator that was giving shocks to my heart to make it come to life. This was so disturbing for me to see what is going on in society that i started become depressed, which is logical, because your heart after a while refuses to engage in the practices people now a days do.

We are seeing minor signs ALL over the place if all those signs still do not shock the heart in any way. Let's say of ALL the signs that one sees still not even 1 action done you are not saying in your mind there is something REALLY wrong with society than you are a helpless person to begin with. It is like saying that when your body witnesses hyperthermia your body will not shiver to create heat. So our fitrah already is witness against us. Besides that on the Day of Judgement whatever injustice somebody has done to you, Allah will for sure give you back the injustice. But your argument is very useless argument (no offense), in making it as if the hell fire would be less painful.


Take a look at this video, at first you might find it funny, but just THINK about it it. I mean ..IT IS A SPOON dude..but again..IT IS A SPOOON..it doesn't hurt that much, then a knife or a fork...

Reply

Bobbyflay23
05-14-2017, 03:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Brother, NO injustice will be done to any one. Our OWN fitrath is already proof enough against us. The body itself for example has certain habits when reaching critical stages in life. For example, when we speak of hyperthermia the body starts to shiver to create motion to warm up the body. When we are holding our breath we tend to grasp for air after some time even if we are under water.

In these days, we see so many thing that go against the fitrah and i take myself as an example. I did not notice many things with my eyes as being wrong. For example women naked but dressed. I in the past saw it as something normal. But when seeing people gather around somebody wounded and NOBODY calling a ambulance or if somebody needed help and nobody helping that individual, or people having a fight and nobody trying to stop the fight..this was like a debilitator that was giving shocks to my heart to make it come to life. This was so disturbing for me to see what is going on in society that i started become depressed, which is logical, because your heart after a while refuses to engage in the practices people now a days do.

We are seeing minor signs ALL over the place if all those signs still do not shock the heart in any way. Let's say of ALL the signs that one sees still not even 1 action done you are not saying in your mind there is something REALLY wrong with society than you are a helpless person to begin with. It is like saying that when your body witnesses hyperthermia your body will not shiver to create heat. So our fitrah already is witness against us. Besides that on the Day of Judgement whatever injustice somebody has done to you, Allah will for sure give you back the injustice. But your argument is very useless argument (no offense), in making it as if the hell fire would be less painful.


Take a look at this video, at first you might find it funny, but just THINK about it it. I mean ..IT IS A SPOON dude..but again..IT IS A SPOOON..it doesn't hurt that much, then a knife or a fork...

It wasn't a arguement it was a example for a simple question what will happen to the khaffirs that go through trial I know no injustice will happen but I just wanted to know if anybody had knowledge about this it clearly it doesn't seem so although I did argue about how it isn't useless information because really is it useless to know if my mom for example will go to hellfire with lessened pain or the full amount or will she make it to jannah because sure she is a hypocritical Muslim (she's done things like shirk and belief in fortune telling and stuff) but she's been through much trial so is it really useless for me to know if my moms trials will expiate her sins or not or even my best friend it's a question not a arguement and then I showed that one thing about lessened pain as a example for how allah could serve the justice
Reply

Simple_Person
05-14-2017, 03:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
It wasn't a arguement it was a example for a simple question what will happen to the khaffirs that go through trial I know no injustice will happen but I just wanted to know if anybody had knowledge about this it clearly it doesn't seem so although I did argue about how it isn't useless information because really is it useless to know if my mom for example will go to hellfire with lessened pain or the full amount or will she make it to jannah because sure she is a hypocritical Muslim (she's done things like shirk and belief in fortune telling and stuff) but she's been through much trial so is it really useless for me to know if my moms trials will expiate her sins or not or even my best friend it's a question not a arguement and then I showed that one thing about lessened pain as a example for how allah could serve the justice
The discussion should rather be about what we can do to prevent a bad finish, instead of trying to know somebody's finish. In case of your mother, she being a hypocrite or not, you cannot know this with 100% certainty. If you have advised her, then let her be. Be good to her, but leave her be. The same knowledge you know about Islam, she probably also knows, if not try to educate her. Some people act upon certain knowledge others don't. Again leave them be, they will get what THEY have WORKED for not what Allah says they deserve. Deserving is not a word on it self, it is rather you could say connected to what YOU have worked for. So again, Allah is being just in what giving you what you have worked for not what you deserve. In the end by His mercy somebody entering paradise.
Reply

Bobbyflay23
05-14-2017, 03:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
The discussion should rather be about what we can do to prevent a bad finish, instead of trying to know somebody's finish. In case of your mother, she being a hypocrite or not, you cannot know this with 100% certainty. If you have advised her, then let her be. Be good to her, but leave her be. The same knowledge you know about Islam, she probably also knows, if not try to educate her. Some people act upon certain knowledge others don't. Again leave them be, they will get what THEY have WORKED for not what Allah says they deserve. Deserving is not a word on it self, it is rather you could say connected to what YOU have worked for. So again, Allah is being just in what giving you what you have worked for not what you deserve. In the end by His mercy somebody entering paradise.
Also I would just like to add that my mom wasn't who I had in mind when I asked infact I had no one in mind that was just a excuse I basically came up with to help me defend myself
Reply

Simple_Person
05-14-2017, 04:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Also I would just like to add that my mom wasn't who I had in mind when I asked infact I had no one in mind that was just a excuse I basically came up with to help me defend myself
Any ways, whoever it might be. The hypocrite will get what he worked for and the Muslm will get what he worked for. We often want to know what will happen to this guy and to that woman, they being Christian, Muslim, atheist, hypocrite, agnostic, Jew, Hindu..etc. while in these case i am remebered of the hadith that a man came to Rasullah(saws) and asked him when is the hour? Rasullah(saws) replied, what have you prepared for it? So instead of knowing what will happen to people, we rather should try to stick to the straight path. For the people that ask us who will enter hell fire, we say only Allah knows. If they ask us will only Muslims enter paradise, we say no. The people who believe in 1 God and not knowing about Islam we believe also will enter paradise but again with that according to justice. It is also made very clear to us that you do shirk, you enter hell fire..no exception and shirk is not only to worship a tree or a stone, but it is way more.
Reply

Supernova
05-14-2017, 06:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
I was wondering, someone told me this about a murdered person

I already told you, the life which is taken before it's time, via murder - is compensated by Allah in the afterlife, according to the way the non believer lived their life - they are also (according to some scholars) given a type of test which will determine their status in the afterlife - ie: hell fire or heaven. So again - here you find Mercy of Allah is prevalent, and Allah says in the Qur'an that HE does not judge any soul unfairly - and HE is the best judge of what is fair and what is not.


Is this true?
Asalaamualaykum Dear Lupus From Ummah Forum.

You have asked the same question on UF on the 28/04/17 and had many responses.

You leave me no choice but to simply repeat myself as it seems you have repeated the question.


Originally Posted by Lupus


I was wondering, someone told me this about a murdered person

I already told you, the life which is taken before it's time, via murder - is compensated by Allah in the afterlife, according to the way the non believer lived their life - they are also (according to some scholars) given a type of test which will determine their status in the afterlife - ie: hell fire or heaven. So again - here you find Mercy of Allah is prevalent, and Allah says in the Qur'an that HE does not judge any soul unfairly - and HE is the best judge of what is fair and what is not.


Is this true?



Asalaamualaykum

It is false based on you the very pretext that the argument is built upon.

No person passes away "before" their time. By saying just part itself is already an indication of the lack of understanding regarding the sifath of Allah SWT. By saying a life is taken "before" its time you are insinuating that Allah SWT designated a time - then via some miracle that life got taken before the designated point. This cannot be true as Allah SWT designates when a person will be a born and when a person will pass away....and that WILL HAPPEN AS HE HAS ORDAINED. So a life cannot go before its time as that what we perceive is taken before its time IS actually that designated time which Allah SWT has appointed in the first place.

You friend needs to read and understand the entire Asmanul Husnah and inshAllah educate themselves about the complete sifath of Allah SWT.

Wasalaam.

Originally Posted by Lupus


I was wondering, someone told me this about a murdered person

I already told you, the life which is taken before it's time, via murder - is compensated by Allah in the afterlife, according to the way the non believer lived their life - they are also (according to some scholars) given a type of test which will determine their status in the afterlife - ie: hell fire or heaven. So again - here you find Mercy of Allah is prevalent, and Allah says in the Qur'an that HE does not judge any soul unfairly - and HE is the best judge of what is fair and what is not.


Is this true?



Asalaamualaykum

It is false based on you the very pretext that the argument is built upon.

No person passes away "before" their time. By saying just part itself is already an indication of the lack of understanding regarding the sifath of Allah SWT. By saying a life is taken "before" its time you are insinuating that Allah SWT designated a time - then via some miracle that life got taken before the designated point. This cannot be true as Allah SWT designates when a person will be a born and when a person will pass away....and that WILL HAPPEN AS HE HAS ORDAINED. So a life cannot go before its time as that what we perceive is taken before its time IS actually that designated time which Allah SWT has appointed in the first place.

You friend needs to read and understand the entire Asmanul Husnah and inshAllah educate themselves about the complete sifath of Allah SWT.

Wasalaam.
Reply

TDWT
05-15-2017, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by samirbrazendale
Asalaamualaykum Dear Lupus From Ummah Forum.

You have asked the same question on UF on the 28/04/17 and had many responses.

You leave me no choice but to simply repeat myself as it seems you have repeated the question.


Originally Posted by Lupus


I was wondering, someone told me this about a murdered person

I already told you, the life which is taken before it's time, via murder - is compensated by Allah in the afterlife, according to the way the non believer lived their life - they are also (according to some scholars) given a type of test which will determine their status in the afterlife - ie: hell fire or heaven. So again - here you find Mercy of Allah is prevalent, and Allah says in the Qur'an that HE does not judge any soul unfairly - and HE is the best judge of what is fair and what is not.


Is this true?



Asalaamualaykum

It is false based on you the very pretext that the argument is built upon.

No person passes away "before" their time. By saying just part itself is already an indication of the lack of understanding regarding the sifath of Allah SWT. By saying a life is taken "before" its time you are insinuating that Allah SWT designated a time - then via some miracle that life got taken before the designated point. This cannot be true as Allah SWT designates when a person will be a born and when a person will pass away....and that WILL HAPPEN AS HE HAS ORDAINED. So a life cannot go before its time as that what we perceive is taken before its time IS actually that designated time which Allah SWT has appointed in the first place.

You friend needs to read and understand the entire Asmanul Husnah and inshAllah educate themselves about the complete sifath of Allah SWT.

Wasalaam.

Originally Posted by Lupus


I was wondering, someone told me this about a murdered person

I already told you, the life which is taken before it's time, via murder - is compensated by Allah in the afterlife, according to the way the non believer lived their life - they are also (according to some scholars) given a type of test which will determine their status in the afterlife - ie: hell fire or heaven. So again - here you find Mercy of Allah is prevalent, and Allah says in the Qur'an that HE does not judge any soul unfairly - and HE is the best judge of what is fair and what is not.


Is this true?



Asalaamualaykum

It is false based on you the very pretext that the argument is built upon.

No person passes away "before" their time. By saying just part itself is already an indication of the lack of understanding regarding the sifath of Allah SWT. By saying a life is taken "before" its time you are insinuating that Allah SWT designated a time - then via some miracle that life got taken before the designated point. This cannot be true as Allah SWT designates when a person will be a born and when a person will pass away....and that WILL HAPPEN AS HE HAS ORDAINED. So a life cannot go before its time as that what we perceive is taken before its time IS actually that designated time which Allah SWT has appointed in the first place.

You friend needs to read and understand the entire Asmanul Husnah and inshAllah educate themselves about the complete sifath of Allah SWT.

Wasalaam.
I was wondering, would it be possible to say non muslims today are excused? I mean, the quran says we do not punish until we send a messenger and messengers like prophets are not revealed today. So, non muslims can't be held accountable for disbelief because they have not gotten direct revelation, right?
Reply

TDWT
05-15-2017, 09:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by samirbrazendale
Asalaamualaykum Dear Lupus From Ummah Forum.

You have asked the same question on UF on the 28/04/17 and had many responses.

You leave me no choice but to simply repeat myself as it seems you have repeated the question.


Originally Posted by Lupus


I was wondering, someone told me this about a murdered person

I already told you, the life which is taken before it's time, via murder - is compensated by Allah in the afterlife, according to the way the non believer lived their life - they are also (according to some scholars) given a type of test which will determine their status in the afterlife - ie: hell fire or heaven. So again - here you find Mercy of Allah is prevalent, and Allah says in the Qur'an that HE does not judge any soul unfairly - and HE is the best judge of what is fair and what is not.


Is this true?



Asalaamualaykum

It is false based on you the very pretext that the argument is built upon.

No person passes away "before" their time. By saying just part itself is already an indication of the lack of understanding regarding the sifath of Allah SWT. By saying a life is taken "before" its time you are insinuating that Allah SWT designated a time - then via some miracle that life got taken before the designated point. This cannot be true as Allah SWT designates when a person will be a born and when a person will pass away....and that WILL HAPPEN AS HE HAS ORDAINED. So a life cannot go before its time as that what we perceive is taken before its time IS actually that designated time which Allah SWT has appointed in the first place.

You friend needs to read and understand the entire Asmanul Husnah and inshAllah educate themselves about the complete sifath of Allah SWT.

Wasalaam.

Originally Posted by Lupus


I was wondering, someone told me this about a murdered person

I already told you, the life which is taken before it's time, via murder - is compensated by Allah in the afterlife, according to the way the non believer lived their life - they are also (according to some scholars) given a type of test which will determine their status in the afterlife - ie: hell fire or heaven. So again - here you find Mercy of Allah is prevalent, and Allah says in the Qur'an that HE does not judge any soul unfairly - and HE is the best judge of what is fair and what is not.


Is this true?



Asalaamualaykum

It is false based on you the very pretext that the argument is built upon.

No person passes away "before" their time. By saying just part itself is already an indication of the lack of understanding regarding the sifath of Allah SWT. By saying a life is taken "before" its time you are insinuating that Allah SWT designated a time - then via some miracle that life got taken before the designated point. This cannot be true as Allah SWT designates when a person will be a born and when a person will pass away....and that WILL HAPPEN AS HE HAS ORDAINED. So a life cannot go before its time as that what we perceive is taken before its time IS actually that designated time which Allah SWT has appointed in the first place.

You friend needs to read and understand the entire Asmanul Husnah and inshAllah educate themselves about the complete sifath of Allah SWT.

Wasalaam.
@Scimitar, here is a refutation of your claim.

Reply

Aaqib
05-17-2017, 11:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
I was wondering, would it be possible to say non muslims today are excused? I mean, the quran says we do not punish until we send a messenger and messengers like prophets are not revealed today. So, non muslims can't be held accountable for disbelief because they have not gotten direct revelation, right?
The prophet Muhammad :saw: was sent as the last of the prophets. We are of his ummah, so are the disbelievers of today.
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