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Montana
05-21-2017, 01:11 AM
Up until now I have been fasting from sunrise to Maghrib time. Today I learned that fasting is from the start of the Fajr prayer. So my past fasting isn’t valid? Should I make up the fasting of the past?
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Bobbyflay23
05-21-2017, 01:51 AM
Originally Posted by Montana
Up until now I have been fasting from sunrise to Maghrib time. Today I learned that fasting is from the start of the Fajr prayer. So my past fasting isn’t valid? Should I make up the fasting of the past?
No because you just need to repent and also you didn't even know so since you know now it's ok it matters about your intension since you didn't intend to purposely screw it up you arnt sinful so u don't need to do anything it's like finding out you've had a mistake in surah al fatiha would u have to redo all your fard prayers of course not
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azc
05-21-2017, 07:30 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
No because you just need to repent and also you didn't even know so since you know now it's ok it matters about your intension since you didn't intend to purposely screw it up you arnt sinful so u don't need to do anything it's like finding out you've had a mistake in surah al fatiha would u have to redo all your fard prayers of course not
On what basis you are saying this.
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azc
05-21-2017, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by Montana
Up until now I have been fasting from sunrise to Maghrib time. Today I learned that fasting is from the start of the Fajr prayer. So my past fasting isn’t valid? Should I make up the fasting of the past?
I think you should ask a scholar. He ie the right person to advise you.
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azc
05-21-2017, 08:53 AM
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/darululoomtt/52206

https://islamqa.info/en/40695
http://www.ramadan.co.uk/section7.htm
http://www.habibihalaqas.org/2014/06...madan.html?m=1
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azc
05-21-2017, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
On the basis that when a sinner has came back to Islam he doesn't have to redo his ramadans he just needs to repent from videos and on the basis that he didn't purposely do it sure if he has a few days to fast then he should just re do it but there's probably years and years of ramadans that happened before he realized do you really think allah is going to burden him by making him fast a entire year
The case of revert to Muslims by birth is different.
Plz see the links shared above.
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ZeeshanParvez
05-21-2017, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by Montana
Up until now I have been fasting from sunrise to Maghrib time. Today I learned that fasting is from the start of the Fajr prayer. So my past fasting isn’t valid? Should I make up the fasting of the past?
The time of fasting starts when the time of fajr starts. Read this to understand the concept.

Today you can look up on the Internet or in published charts when the time of fajr starts. You cannot eat or drink when the time of fajr starts.

If you do, your fast will not be valid.
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Bobbyflay23
05-21-2017, 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by azc
The case of revert to Muslims by birth is different.
Plz see the links shared above.
I admit I was being arrogant allhuallam
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azc
05-21-2017, 11:36 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
I admit I was being arrogant allhuallam
No bro, it's not your arrogance at all.
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Montana
05-21-2017, 10:02 PM
Jazak Allahu Khair for helping me. The links you provided were very helpful and I am certain the ruling that I need to make up the days is applicable to me. I am a convert by the way and will need to make up 150 days and pay ½ saa’a for each day.

So I should make them up as soon as possible? Except for fasting on the 2 Eids and the 3 days after Eid Al-Adha?
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anatolian
05-21-2017, 10:58 PM
I believe your situation is a little different from the circumstances given in the links. I would ask a real scholar. This is a rare case. I believe it is because you didn't have so many Muslims around to correct your practice. And in some internet sources it realy says from sunrise to sunset. There is always confusing info in net.
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AbdurRahman.
05-22-2017, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Montana
Jazak Allahu Khair for helping me. The links you provided were very helpful and I am certain the ruling that I need to make up the days is applicable to me. I am a convert by the way and will need to make up 150 days and pay ½ saa’a for each day.

So I should make them up as soon as possible? Except for fasting on the 2 Eids and the 3 days after Eid Al-Adha?
Giving half saa is only for those who are permanently too ill to fast. You have to make up for them by fasting
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anatolian
05-22-2017, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
Giving half saa is only for those who are permanently too ill to fast. You have to make up for them by fasting
Salam. How have you come to conclusion that he has to make up them ?
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AbdurRahman.
05-22-2017, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Salam. How have you come to conclusion that he has to make up them ?
Fasting is an obligation. We owe them to Allah just as we do salah so if we miss them, we still owe them.
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AbdurRahman.
05-22-2017, 07:00 PM
The ruling for feeding the poor as a substitute for makeup fasts applies only to someone with a chronic illness that prevents one from fasting and that is not expected to improve for the rest of one’s life. This is to the extent that, were one in such a state to donate to the poor for missed fasts and then later improve in health (such that able to fast), one would have to make up those missed fasts. [Ibn Abidin, Radd al-Muhtar]

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32432
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anatolian
05-22-2017, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
Fasting is an obligation. We owe them to Allah just as we do salah so if we miss them, we still owe them.
No, I mean does he really make them up? If so, why is that?
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AbdurRahman.
05-22-2017, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
No, I mean does he really make them up? If so, why is that?
yes he has to as his fasts are basically 'missed' as they weren't accepted

since they are owed to ALlah and hasn't been given to Him yet, they still have to be offered; it's like if we miss the deadline for paying back some borrowed money, that dont mean we dont have to pay it anymore does it?
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azc
05-22-2017, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
The ruling for feeding the poor as a substitute for makeup fasts applies only to someone with a chronic illness that prevents one from fasting and that is not expected to improve for the rest of one’s life. This is to the extent that, were one in such a state to donate to the poor for missed fasts and then later improve in health (such that able to fast), one would have to make up those missed fasts. [Ibn Abidin, Radd al-Muhtar]

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32432
No bro you couldn't understand this fatwa and his case as well.

His case is of kaffarah (expiration). He kept fast though but he didn't know the correct timings of fast.

Whereas the fatwa explains the case when someone doesn't keep fast due to certain reasons
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azc
05-22-2017, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Montana
Jazak Allahu Khair for helping me. The links you provided were very helpful and I am certain the ruling that I need to make up the days is applicable to me. I am a convert by the way and will need to make up 150 days and pay ½ saa’a for each day.

So I should make them up as soon as possible? Except for fasting on the 2 Eids and the 3 days after Eid Al-Adha?
Plz see post #18 and tell me if I am correct.
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AbdurRahman.
05-22-2017, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by azc
No bro you couldn't understand this fatwa and his case as well.

His case is of kaffarah (expiration). He kept fast though but he didn't know the correct timings of fast.

Whereas the fatwa explains the case when someone doesn't keep fast due to certain reasons
Kaffara is when someone deliberately breaks fasts. He 'broke' them by mistake so should make up 1 for 1
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anatolian
05-22-2017, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
yes he has to as his fasts are basically 'missed' as they weren't accepted

since they are owed to ALlah and hasn't been given to Him yet, they still have to be offered; it's like if we miss the deadline for paying back some borrowed money, that dont mean we dont have to pay it anymore does it?
I think its my fault that I couldnt explain what I meant. I too know that one has to make up his missed fasts since this is directly written in Quran. What I mean, how do we know that his previous fasts are not accepted or valid. He didnt miss them deliberatly but he thought it is done like that. There is a difference between. If he was misinformed about sunrise, is this regarded as his fault or is it the fault of misinformatives who simply writes sunrise in the sources without explaining the Islamic concept of sunrise which is fajr. So he thought that it is the actual sunrise. Or, even if its the fault of other, are all of his previos fasts still regarded invalid and needs to be made up? I am just curious of the correct reasoning. InshAllah Ive made myself clear.
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azc
05-22-2017, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
Kaffara is when someone deliberately breaks fasts. He 'broke' them by mistake so should make up 1 for 1
You mean breaking the fast "deliberately" is "small issue" so kaffarah is the easy solution whereas breaking fast "by mistake" is "big issue, so he will have to make up for 150 fasts because he is a revert who didn't have correct knowledge of Ramadan timings? ???

Plz consult a scholar to know details of kaffarah.
Thanks bro
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Montana
05-22-2017, 08:48 PM
I think it is a similar enough situation to the ruling in this case that is in the link provided above.
Q: I have a sister who for several years did not make up the fasts that she missed because of her period, because she was unaware of the ruling, especially since some of the common folk told her that she did not have to make up the fasts that she missed. What should she do?
A: She has to make up those days, and to be on the safe side she should feed one poor person for each day. This means giving half a saa’, which is equivalent to one and a half kilograms.
I think it is a close enough ruling because I was unaware that fasting was started at the time of Fajr, just like she was unaware that she had to make up the days in Ramadan when she had her menses. It doesn’t really matter why a person was misinformed. Even if there is a lot of misinformation on the internet, that isn’t really a good enough excuse in my opinion. Something is either complete, or incomplete.
Even if a scholar says I don’t need to make up the fasts, I should make up the fasts anyway and give ½ saa’a for each day, just like the above case. I would rather be certain about it, that take the chance of getting a questionable ruling.
I read somewhere else that a saa’a is actually a measurement of volume, not weight. They had a list of the average weights of different types of food (barley, wheat, dates etc) and the weights they listed were each different from eachother…not necessarily 1 ½ kg. Even then it isn’t that much money when you calculate it using one of the common food types for the area you live in (wheat, in my case).
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anatolian
05-22-2017, 09:12 PM
I believe your situation is different then hers but you know conscientious satisfaction is the most important here. Do it as you wish. May Allah accept it all.
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AbdurRahman.
05-23-2017, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
I think its my fault that I couldnt explain what I meant. I too know that one has to make up his missed fasts since this is directly written in Quran. What I mean, how do we know that his previous fasts are not accepted or valid. He didnt miss them deliberatly but he thought it is done like that. There is a difference between. If he was misinformed about sunrise, is this regarded as his fault or is it the fault of misinformatives who simply writes sunrise in the sources without explaining the Islamic concept of sunrise which is fajr. So he thought that it is the actual sunrise. Or, even if its the fault of other, are all of his previos fasts still regarded invalid and needs to be made up? I am just curious of the correct reasoning. InshAllah Ive made myself clear.
he will get reward for his previous 'fasts' for he did fas for numbers of hours for Allah, however since he has come to know that he messed up on essential timings for a fast to be valid, this is why he has do re-do them

the fast is from dawn till sunset; any other time will not do so if a person eats by mistake during fast time, fast is broken

he can hope for reward for his past 'fasts' as he did refrain from food for ALlah, but his fasts as in acceptable full ramadan fasts, weren't valid thus he has to re-do them

i'll give you an example, say someone honestly didn't know that the money he had on him was counterfeit and he payed a debt with that, he will get reward for paying that debt for he performed the act of paying the debt with good money as far as he knew, but once it's clear to him that counterfeit money was payed, he will have to pay the debt again with real money for the person who the debt is owed to is still owing
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AbdurRahman.
05-23-2017, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by azc
You mean breaking the fast "deliberately" is "small issue" so kaffarah is the easy solution whereas breaking fast "by mistake" is "big issue, so he will have to make up for 150 fasts because he is a revert who didn't have correct knowledge of Ramadan timings? ???

Plz consult a scholar to know details of kaffarah.
Thanks bro
kaffara is harder bro; kafara is 60 fasts for breaking one fast and he just has to make up 1 for 1, i.e, 150; did you think 'kafara' was paying half saa? :Emoji47:; lol your the one who needs to learn about kaffara! :Emoji47::Emoji47:; bro you keep on putting your foot in it! :Emoji46::Emoji46:
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Bosanac
05-24-2017, 04:20 PM
Al-Daaraqutni narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever eats in the month of Ramadaan by mistake does not have to make up that day.”

Al-Bukhaari (6669) and Muslim (1155) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever forgets he is fasting and eats or drinks, let him complete his fast for it is Allaah Who has fed him and given him to drink.”

https://islamqa.info/en/50041
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azc
05-25-2017, 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
kaffara is harder bro; kafara is 60 fasts for breaking one fast and he just has to make up 1 for 1, i.e, 150; did you think 'kafara' was paying half saa? :Emoji47:; lol your the one who needs to learn about kaffara! :Emoji47::Emoji47:; bro you keep on putting your foot in it! :Emoji46::Emoji46:
Feeding poor is easier than keeping fast for 60 days against each fast but you think otherwise. It's o.k. bro
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 12:06 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Feeding poor is easier than keeping fast for 60 days against each fast but you think otherwise. It's o.k. bro
i think you must have misunderstood; it's very simple bro

intentionally breaking fast requires Kaffara

fidiya [feeding the poor] is only valid for the weak and infirm who cannot fast ...

and breaking fast by mistake requires 1 for 1
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by Bosanac
Al-Daaraqutni narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever eats in the month of Ramadaan by mistake does not have to make up that day.”

Al-Bukhaari (6669) and Muslim (1155) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever forgets he is fasting and eats or drinks, let him complete his fast for it is Allaah Who has fed him and given him to drink.”

https://islamqa.info/en/50041
this is when a person eats in total forgetfullness and stops eating once he remembers he's fasting
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azc
05-25-2017, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
i think you must have misunderstood; it's very simple bro

intentionally breaking fast requires Kaffara

fidiya [feeding the poor] is only valid for the weak and infirm who cannot fast ...

and breaking fast by mistake requires 1 for 1
I disagree with you in his case.
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I disagree with you in his case.
you will find the scholars say the same bro; on what basis do you disagree?
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I disagree with you in his case.
look from the link you gave yourself:

Kaffarah or the penalty of fasting for 60 days consecutively is given only in cases where a person has intentionally broken the Ramadhan fasts by having sexual relations etc. This will not be applicable to your friend. Charity will only be given for missed fasts when a person is totally unable to observe the fast. This also will not be applicable to your friend. So, your friend must make up for all the Ramadhan fasts she has missed.

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/darululoomtt/52206

Breaking one’s fast accidently requires a makeup fast but does not necessitate expiation. This also applies to actions that one was coerced to do.
Accidentally means that one remembers that one is fasting but broke the fast by one’s own doing without the intention to purposely break the fast. [Tahtawi, Hashiya al-Tahtawi; Related in Radd al-Muhtar] As such, one did not intend to break the fast; however, a situation occurred where something entered the body cavity through a normal passageway due to one’s own action whilst one was consciously aware that one was fasting.
Example: Anas is making ablution for Asr prayer. He knows that he’s fasting for Ramadan today. While washing his mouth, he accidentally swallows water. He did not purposely intend to swallow water, but it mistakenly happened. Thus, his fast is vitiated because something entered the body cavity through a normal passageway while he consciously knew he was fasting. He doesn’t fall into category A because he didn’t purposely intend to do an action that would break the fast. He owes a makeup without expiation.
Forgetfully Breaking the Fast
If any of the actions that break the fast are performed forgetfully, then one’s fast is not vitiated. Forgetfully means that one does not have the presence of mind that one is fasting when performing the action. [Shurunbulali, Imdad al-Fattah]
The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “Whoever forgets that he is fasting and eats or drinks, then he still completes his fast. It is only Allah who fed him and gave him drink.” [Bukhari]
In another narration, the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “If a fasting person eats forgetfully, it is only provision Allah put forth to him and there is no makeup upon him.” [Bukhari]
Example: Sarah is fasting for Ramadan. Suddenly, she feels thirsty. She goes into the kitchen and drinks a glass of water, completely forgetting that she’s fasting. After she finishes, she suddenly realizes that it is Ramadan and she drank something forgetfully. She was not conscious of the fact that she was fasting when she drank. Her fast is not broken according to the hadiths mentioned above. Rather, she should continue to fast for the remainder of the day. Her fast is valid and she no makeup is upon her.
I hope this is clear.
Barak Allah fikum.
Checked & Approved by Faraz Rabbani

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2010/...he-difference/
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azc
05-25-2017, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
you will find the scholars say the same bro; on what basis do you disagree?
Wish to see the opinion of scholars about this revert...????
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azc
05-25-2017, 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
you will find the scholars say the same bro; on what basis do you disagree?
Wish to see the opinion of scholars about this revert...????
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Wish to see the opinion of scholars about this revert...????
revert???? :Emoji48::Emoji48::Emoji48:; i've been a muslim probably longer than your parents bro! :Emoji51:
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azc
05-25-2017, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
revert???? :Emoji48::Emoji48::Emoji48:; i've been a muslim probably longer than your parents bro! :Emoji51:
It's not you. He is revert....
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talibilm
05-25-2017, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Montana
Jazak Allahu Khair for helping me. The links you provided were very helpful and I am certain the ruling that I need to make up the days is applicable to me. I am a convert by the way and will need to make up 150 days and pay ½ saa’a for each day.

So I should make them up as soon as possible? Except for fasting on the 2 Eids and the 3 days after Eid Al-Adha?
:sl: wrwb

Bro do not burden yourselves now , its a mistake (not intentional) so you have to fast again as soon as you are comfortable fasting it, sooner the better.

So for now fast this Ramadhan Inshallah and do not fast the six days as sunnah but substitute those 6 days for the Qadha or missed fasts . And then you may fast 2 days a week like monday , thursday (sunnah method) (and add a sunday if it you want to finish in a year)

Though there are difference in opinions whether to fast continuously or separately but that's for intentional breaking of ramadhan fasts.

Allah Ar rahman does not like see his slaves troubling too much themselves But also wants to ease his ibadah to us , just remember that . That's why Allah Ar Rahman has given tayamum , travellers shortened or combined salah and so on.

Allah knows the best.
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by talibilm
:sl: wrwb

Bro do not burden yourselves now , its a mistake so you have to fast again as soon as you are comfortable fasting it, sooner the better.

So for now fast this Ramadhan Inshallah and do not fast the six days as sunnah but substitute those 6 days for the Qadha or missed fasts . And then you may fast 2 days a week like monday , thursday (sunnah method) (and add a sunday if it you want to finish in a year)

Though there are difference in opinions whether to fast continuously or separately but that's for intentional breaking of fasts.

Allah Ar rahman does not like see his slaves troubling too much themselves But also wants to ease his ibadah to us , just remember that . That's why Allah Ar Rahman has given tayamum , travellers shortened or combined salah and so on.

Allah knows the best.
OP i agree with this post; take it easy .. Maybe you should wait till winter months to make them up?
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by azc
It's not you. He is revert....
oh i see

i've already posted up the evidences bro; see post #33
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azc
05-25-2017, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
oh i see

i've already posted up the evidences bro; see post #33
I've talked to two scholars but they're not sure what's the correct ruling for a revert in this case.

They've advised me to contact a senior mufti.

If I get any reply In sha Allah I'll post.
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I've talked to two scholars but they're not sure what's the correct ruling for a revert in this case.

They've advised me to contact a senior mufti.
most Scholars are not mufti so they dont know; the online fatwa sites [reliable ahlus sunnah one's] are by mufti's or under supervision of Mufti's so we already have the answer bro!

There is scholarly consensus that fasting begins when Fajr time enters. What is meant by the ‘white thread’ is the break of dawn, as authentically established from the sunna of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him).
And Allah alone gives success.
Faraz Rabbani

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/qibla-hanafi/42572

there you go bro, no other scholars can differ and go against consensus
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azc
05-25-2017, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
most Scholars are not mufti so they dont know; the online fatwa sites [reliable ahlus sunnah one's] are by mufti's or under supervision of Mufti's so we already have the answer bro!

There is scholarly consensus that fasting begins when Fajr time enters. What is meant by the ‘white thread’ is the break of dawn, as authentically established from the sunna of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him).
And Allah alone gives success.
Faraz Rabbani

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/qibla-hanafi/42572

there you go bro, no other scholars can differ and go against consensus
One of them is an alim from Darul uloom deoband, a highly knowledgeable person and another is a mufti from mazahirul uloom saharanpur.

I've also tried to see on line fatwa concerning this case of a revert who is still in learning condition.
Whereas the fatwas mentioned in different links highlight the mistake of a person who is already aware of the ruling. This is the crux of the matter.
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by azc
One of them is an alim from Darul uloom deoband, a highly knowledgeable person and another is a mufti from mazahirul uloom saharanpur.

I've also tried to see on line fatwa concerning this case of a revert who is still in learning condition.
Whereas the fatwas mentioned in different links highlight the mistake of a person who is already aware of the ruling. This is the crux of the matter.
i'm afraid our indian subcontinent scholars are not that 'brainy' really [with exception of few scholars, one of them being mufti taqi usmani] other than knowing answers to this and that, but when it comes to working things out with intellect, they fall behind than the western counterparts; not being racist here, i'm from indian subcontinent too and i've observed this over many years

its really just a matter of conecting simple dots really
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azc
05-25-2017, 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
i'm afraid our indian subcontinent scholars are not that 'brainy' really [with exception of few scholars, one of them being mufti taqi usmani] other than knowing answers to this and that, but when it comes to working things out with intellect, they fall behind than the western counterparts; not being racist here, i'm from indian subcontinent too and i've observed this over many years

its really just a matter of conecting simple dots really
And I find them more knowledgeable and more pious than western scholars. Exception isn't denied.
Reply

azc
05-25-2017, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
most Scholars are not mufti so they dont know; the online fatwa sites [reliable ahlus sunnah one's] are by mufti's or under supervision of Mufti's so we already have the answer bro!

There is scholarly consensus that fasting begins when Fajr time enters. What is meant by the ‘white thread’ is the break of dawn, as authentically established from the sunna of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him).
And Allah alone gives success.
Faraz Rabbani

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/qibla-hanafi/42572

there you go bro, no other scholars can differ and go against consensus
https://islamqa.info/en/38543
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by azc
And I find them more knowledgeable and more pious than western scholars. Exception isn't denied.
well they've miserable failed on this basic answer; look up western scholar Hanafi fatwa sites; the answer is there and they gotta refer you to a mufti e azam?
even i as a laymen knew the answer from simple dot to dots! :Emoji48:
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by azc
i thought you are a madhabi bro?:Emoji47:, and now your'e resorting to a salafi site? salafi's infact differ on what there is a consensus on or not with the mainstream; make up your mind on what you are bro!
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azc
05-25-2017, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
well they've miserable failed on this basic answer; look up western scholar Hanafi fatwa sites; the answer is there and they gotta refer you to a mufti e azam?
even i as a laymen knew the answer from simple dot to dots! :Emoji48:
I disagree with you.

Show me the ruling in this issue specifically for this revert.

Do you understand what I'm asking or will you regurgitate the same stuff...???


The fatwas mentioned in that hanafi site has nothing to do with this case.
Reply

azc
05-25-2017, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
i thought you are a madhabi bro?:Emoji47:, and now your'e resorting to a salafi site? salafi's infact differ on what there is a consensus on or not with the mainstream; make up your mind on what you are bro!
I often quote islamqa.... is it wrong?
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azc
05-25-2017, 07:07 PM
Imaam Maalik Ibn Anas (d.179H) – rahimahullaah – said:


“The shield of the scholar is saying, ‘I do not know.’ So if he forgets it, then his enemies strike him!” [Hilyatul-Awliyaa 6/323]


Al-Haytham Ibn Jameel said:


“I heard Maalik being asked about forty-eight questions, he replied to thirty-two of them saying, ‘I do not know.’”


’Abdur-Rahmaan Ibn Mahdee (d.198H) – rahimahullaah – said:


“[I]We were with Maalik Ibn Anas when a man came saying, ‘O Abaa ’Abdullaah, I have traveled a distance of six months. The people of my land sent me to ask you about a matter.’ So he said, ‘Ask!’ So the man asked him some things, so he replied, ‘I do not know.’ – and the man thought he had come to someone who knew everything, so he said, ‘What shall I tell the people of my land when I return to them?’ He said, ‘Say to them, Maalik Ibn Anas does not know.’”


Several of the Salaf, including Abu Al-Dardaa’ :anhu:, were quoted to have said: It is half of knowledge to say “I do not know”. (Siyar A’lam Al-Nubalaa’ by Imam Thahabi 8/77)


@AbdullahAziz
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AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I disagree with you.

Show me the ruling in this issue specifically for this revert.

Do you understand what I'm asking or will you regurgitate the same stuff...???


The fatwas mentioned in that hanafi site has nothing to do with this case.
there is no different law for revert brother; we all follow the same Islam; the only exception for a revert is he is allowed to take it a bit more easier than us, i.e, take baby steps until he gets to the proper full practice

if you compare this to salah, missing an integral of salah [obligation] nullifies the salat so if a person mistakenly misses out on fard parts of salaah for years, after he realises it he has to redo them, but if he mistakenly misses out on the lesser wajib, than due to the hardship he doesn't have to redo them again and hope they will be accepted

sticking to the times of fasting is an obligation too

i have read a salafi online article that says such a person will not have to make up those fasts; they base this view on hadiths which suggest certain sahaba? [ra] didn't have to redo in similar circumstances, but this could be flawed as individual mujtahids are allowed to follow their own ijtihad but laymen have to follow a valid fiqh and we've seen there is consensus on the start time of fasting, so OP has mistakenly eaten after the start time!

now let me clarify one thing; them indian scholars are far far more knowledgeable then ignoramuses like me bro but i just happen to know some things about this which makes it a simple answer!
Reply

AbdurRahman.
05-25-2017, 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Imaam Maalik Ibn Anas (d.179H) – rahimahullaah – said:


“The shield of the scholar is saying, ‘I do not know.’ So if he forgets it, then his enemies strike him!” [Hilyatul-Awliyaa 6/323]


Al-Haytham Ibn Jameel said:


“I heard Maalik being asked about forty-eight questions, he replied to thirty-two of them saying, ‘I do not know.’”


’Abdur-Rahmaan Ibn Mahdee (d.198H) – rahimahullaah – said:


“[I]We were with Maalik Ibn Anas when a man came saying, ‘O Abaa ’Abdullaah, I have traveled a distance of six months. The people of my land sent me to ask you about a matter.’ So he said, ‘Ask!’ So the man asked him some things, so he replied, ‘I do not know.’ – and the man thought he had come to someone who knew everything, so he said, ‘What shall I tell the people of my land when I return to them?’ He said, ‘Say to them, Maalik Ibn Anas does not know.’”


Several of the Salaf, including Abu Al-Dardaa’ :anhu:, were quoted to have said: It is half of knowledge to say “I do not know”. (Siyar A’lam Al-Nubalaa’ by Imam Thahabi 8/77)


@AbdullahAziz
what!, i was going to post you those comments bro; i show you fatwas but still your not willing to accept that you we're wrong and didn't know! :slap:

that is it, them fatwas clarify it for us for there is no different law for reverts! :Emoji47:
Reply

azc
05-25-2017, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
what!, i was going to post you those comments bro; i show you fatwas but still your not willing to accept that you we're wrong and didn't know! :slap:

that is it, them fatwas clarify it for us for there is no different law for reverts! :Emoji47:
It's from those scholars who dont give fatwa on every issue.
Reply

azc
05-25-2017, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
there is no different law for revert brother; we all follow the same Islam; the only exception for a revert is he is allowed to take it a bit more easier than us, i.e, take baby steps until he gets to the proper full practice

if you compare this to salah, missing an integral of salah [obligation] nullifies the salat so if a person mistakenly misses out on fard parts of salaah for years, after he realises it he has to redo them, but if he mistakenly misses out on the lesser wajib, than due to the hardship he doesn't have to redo them again and hope they will be accepted

sticking to the times of fasting is an obligation too

i have read a salafi online article that says such a person will not have to make up those fasts; they base this view on hadiths which suggest certain sahaba? [ra] didn't have to redo in similar circumstances, but this could be flawed as individual mujtahids are allowed to follow their own ijtihad but laymen have to follow a valid fiqh and we've seen there is consensus on the start time of fasting, so OP has mistakenly eaten after the start time!

now let me clarify one thing; them indian scholars are far far more knowledgeable then ignoramuses like me bro but i just happen to know some things about this which makes it a simple answer!
Read my post again and then reply.

I simplify it

What are the conditions which make a person to make up the fast..?
Reply

AbdurRahman.
05-26-2017, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Read my post again and then reply.

I simplify it

What are the conditions which make a person to make up the fast..?
i give up bro :Emoji46:, but not to worry i'm sure for the OP it is simple matter too once he reads the fatwas; you do have a very difficult time understanding simple issues
Reply

azc
05-26-2017, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
i give up bro :Emoji46:, but not to worry i'm sure for the OP it is simple matter too once he reads the fatwas; you do have a very difficult time understanding simple issues
It's o.k. bro

What you are discussing is a disputed issue.
See it...

It was proven in al-Saheeh that one day at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) they broke the fast and then the sun appeared, but it does not say in the hadeeth that they were ordered to make up that fast. But Hishaam ibn ‘Urwah said: It must be made up, but his father was more knowledgeable than him and he said, They do not have to make it up. And it was proven in al-Saheehayn that a group of Sahaabah used to eat until one of them could distinguish the white thread from the black. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to one of them, “Your pillow is wide [if the white thread (of dawn) and the black thread (of the night) are underneath your pillow], rather that is the whiteness of the day and the blackness of the night.” But it is not narrated that he told them to make up their fasts; they were ignorant of the ruling so they were making a mistake. And it is proven that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab broke his fast then it became clear that it was still day, but he said, “We will not make it up because we did not deliberately commit sin.” And it was narrated that ‘Umar said: “We will make it up,” but the isnaad of the first report is stronger. And it was narrated from him that he said, “It is not a serious matter.” So some of the scholars understood this as meaning that it is not essential to make it up, but the wording does not indicate that.

In conclusion, this view is stronger in terms of reports and reasoning, and is more strongly supported by evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah and analogy (qiyaas).

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 20/572, 573

See also al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 6/411.

Hence we can see how strong is the evidence for the view that his fast is valid and he does not have to make it up.

However, if the Muslim does that which is on the safe side and fasts a day in its stead, that will be better.

And Allaah knows best.

https://islamqa.info/en/38543
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