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AhmedGassama
05-22-2017, 05:18 PM
I join the movement!

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anatolian
05-22-2017, 06:54 PM
Hispanics are a mix of the Spanish and natives, they are not fully native. She just takes her native side's identity. It comes to personal choice at the end.
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Simple_Person
05-22-2017, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Hispanics are a mix of the Spanish and natives, they are not fully native. She just takes her native side's identity. It comes to personal choice at the end.
That could indeed be, as she rather looks more European than a native. This is something that is very known in the Middle East..especially in Turkey. People coming from Balkan region and saying they are "native people of that part of land" and descendants of the Turks.. o_O!...??

But again, personal choice my ***..you cannot simply brand yourself something which you are NOT. And sorry dude, but you cannot twist this to make especially for many people who call themselves Turks..to suddenly be Turks. We have in the past have this discussion, but you refuse to admit it, but i will repeat it also again..:).
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azc
05-22-2017, 07:39 PM
Written news is preferable to videos with "close "up"......????
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anatolian
05-22-2017, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
***
Whats that? We talk about everything but just be clear about everything.
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Simple_Person
05-22-2017, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Whats that? We talk about everything but just be clear about everything.
You try to twist things as "if you FEEL like you are Turk or a American or a Australian or a British, then you can be a Turk or a American or a Australian or British etc.". No things don't work like that. We now a days have people who say THEY FEEL like they are born like a homosexual OR feel like a girl rather than a boy. A guy tries than to do homosexual acts and the boy tries to change physical appearance to look like a girl.

So you are incorrect that just because somebody feels like something, doesn't mean they are that. Brainwashing is also a fact and in your case, if you have nothing in common with the REAL Turks, then by default you are NOT a Turk, although you tries to be part of the group that says they are Turkish. Wake up to many Turks from their dreams if you have no real blood relation with real Turks.
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anatolian
05-22-2017, 08:44 PM
In the above example the girl has a mixed race as a Hispanic. So, she has three options based on race. Either she will keep her Hispanic identity or she will claim her Spanish side or native side which is the case with this example. And none of these are anormal. Now, she has a fourth option based on nationality. An American or Mexican as part of the nation she was born to or moved to. As you see she really has several options. The problem here is the forced assimilation applied by the Spaniards on the natives. Similar things done by the Brits on the north.

So, assimilation is a natural proccess but the forced assimilation is a problem. And "personal choice" is just a right. You can never become from another race in the şense you can never become a woman but you can feel yourself from another nation. Here most of you people confuse race with nation. Nation has its cultural backround and cannot be totally explained by genetic codes
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Simple_Person
05-22-2017, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
In the above example the girl has a mixed race as a Hispanic. So, she has three options based on race. Either she will keep her Hispanic identity or she will claim her Spanish side or native side which is the case with this example. And none of these are anormal. Now, she has a fourth option based on nationality. An American or Mexican as part of the nation she was born to or moved to. As you see she really has several options. The problem here is the forced assimilation applied by the Spaniards on the natives. Similar things done by the Brits on the north.

So, assimilation is a natural proccess but the forced assimilation is a problem. And "personal choice" is just a right. You can never become from another race in the şense you can never become a woman but you can feel yourself from another nation. Here most of you people confuse race with nation. Nation has its cultural backround and cannot be totally explained by genetic codes
In the first comment I understood it differently but you made it clear in this comment of yours. About current nations..no..that is NEVER a choice..that is the forced identity placed upon you.

A nation is man-made like the label of such a person belonging to that nation branded on your forehead. Like some Indian person going to UK and liVing there at the end being branded British. Rather Indian is I believe even wrong it is a Hindu. Hindu being one coming from certain area. India as a couple try is also that man-made/forced identity.

This girl I do not know how far or how mixed her identity goes and maybe bigger part of her bloodline being more native American but the Spanish genes mixed in to the bloodline being more dominant and thus she looking like a European instead of a native American. Allah knows best.

She did spoke the truth and I agreed with every word she said and I also hope many of them start FORCING the languages of their ancestors to be primary languages once again making Spanish secondary language or just remove it completely. This can be achieved within 100 years. The last 50 years (watch documentry "War on Democracy") south America has experienced only agression from US (CIA) aka decendants of the Europeans.
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AhmedGassama
05-22-2017, 10:09 PM
Usa is criminal country and it has wiped out the Native's identity and culture!
Recent researches démontrâtes that 95% of the Natives were killed, it is the biggest Genocide in human history...

This is America's Manifest Destiny! The white man's burden!
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fyi
05-22-2017, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
That could indeed be, as she rather looks more European than a native. This is something that is very known in the Middle East..especially in Turkey. People coming from Balkan region and saying they are "native people of that part of land" and descendants of the Turks.. o_O!...??

But again, personal choice my ***..you cannot simply brand yourself something which you are NOT. And sorry dude, but you cannot twist this to make especially for many people who call themselves Turks..to suddenly be Turks. We have in the past have this discussion, but you refuse to admit it, but i will repeat it also again..:).

Today there are many people who are Turks but think they are kurds and there are many Turks who are actually kurdish or arabic. My father is like extremely dark and my mother is extremely white. And I'm like yellowish brown/white. Though from the day I was born I was told to be a Turk and lived as Turk. I am a Turk my father is a Turk my mother is Turk. So eventually it's not the blood it's what you think you are.
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AhmedGassama
05-23-2017, 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
So eventually it's not the blood it's what you think you are.
The biggest joke i have ever heard ;D

If an Arab or an Indian think that he is a European, that doesn't make him an European, that makes him a SELL OUT!
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Simple_Person
05-23-2017, 05:43 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
Today there are many people who are Turks but think they are kurds and there are many Turks who are actually kurdish or arabic. My father is like extremely dark and my mother is extremely white. And I'm like yellowish brown/white. Though from the day I was born I was told to be a Turk and lived as Turk. I am a Turk my father is a Turk my mother is Turk. So eventually it's not the blood it's what you think you are.
That is the brainwashing part that I have talked about. The forced identity on people however those people who force this identity plan their plans and Allah plans His plan.
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fyi
05-26-2017, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
The biggest joke i have ever heard ;D

If an Arab or an Indian think that he is a European, that doesn't make him an European, that makes him a SELL OUT!
So what is a native american? Also a sell out? Especially as muslims aren't we all coming from a single family? I don't understand this racial differentiation you guys are making.
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Simple_Person
05-27-2017, 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
So what is a native american? Also a sell out? Especially as muslims aren't we all coming from a single family? I don't understand this racial differentiation you guys are making.
I think what he tried to point out is not necessarily betrayal or so, rather hypocrisy. A hypocrite joins the party that he feels more empowered with as we know a hypocrite in Islam is not really a Muslim, but with Muslims he says he is a Muslim and with non-Muslims he says he is just pretending.

For example there are many Kurds, with Europeans, they say i am a European, when he is with Turks he says i am a Turk, with Kurds he says i am a Kurd. Such people one must be aware of. As with Europeans, they do not see him as a European although he might say i feel part of the Europeans. As with Turks, they also do not see him as a Turk rather use him when needed. Kurds when they know of this Kurds attitude they even look down on such people. As such people in the eyes of Kurds have "left" his ethnicity. Ethnicity is given by Allah, one CANNOT change this even if you get a different passport or forget the language.

You are rather from your own ethnicity, but respect other ethnics as those are also a aya (sign) of Allah(swt). However haq is haq, there is no turning and twisting to make something else right while it is wrong. So even IF let's say ethnicity X would do something that is against Islamic principle of let's say justice and you are from that ethnicity going against it, doesn't mean you betrayed your ethnicity. You rather refused to follow the orders of sheytan. So all in all, you are of your own ethnicity but live in a man-made country (wherever in the world) and some people are trying to brainwash you in wearing a new kind of clothing called nationalism. Living in that country and being honest in it that you are NOT of their ethnicity and also do NOT feel as if you are one of them, rather have COMMON perspectives that we abide by (not stealing, mutual respect, no killing, learning the language, etc, etc)
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anatolian
05-27-2017, 09:07 AM
You balame everyone with nationalism although you are making a kind of Kurdish nationalism yourself. Also you are promoting an ethnic nationalism here by saying people must claim their ethnic differences. What if someone's parents are from different ethnicities? Is he completely lost or can have a national identity? If he can, which one?
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Simple_Person
05-27-2017, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
You balame everyone with nationalism although you are making a kind of Kurdish nationalism yourself. Also you are promoting an ethnic nationalism here by saying people must claim their ethnic differences. What if someone's parents are from different ethnicities? Is he completely lost or can have a national identity? If he can, which one?
I am sometimes amazed how come people cannot figure out such easy things. Ethnicity is based on your dad, was it that hard to figure it out? So who is your dad? Was he a descendant of REAL OTTOMANS? If so, then you can say you are a Turk. If your dad was NOT a descendant of a REAL Ottomans, then by default you are NOT a REAL Turk although somebody would stamp your forehead with Turk. So you believing a lie, doesn't make it true you know.

Also Kurdish nationalism? Pff..Truth hurts doesn't it. Especially when the hypocrisy and lies are brought up. Nobody likes it when their hypocrisy and lies are made transparent.

I use Turks often as example, because they are THE MOST EASIEST to understand. Anybody who could just do some research can understand the example i am using. Also Turks by far are the MOST blind about truth going on. So anyways, i will repeat this time after time until hatred either emerges from you or any other Turk that reads this, or honesty emerges and they decide to look at reality as it is.

Many Arabs are also pursuing nationalism, like the Persians, like Pakistanis etc. etc. However Turks just like i said, Turks are the easiest to understand.
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anatolian
05-27-2017, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
I am sometimes amazed how come people cannot figure out such easy things. Ethnicity is based on your dad, was it that hard to figure it out?
No. You cant come solely out of your father. You need a mother :) You can claim your mother's side as well.

Originally Posted by Simple_Person
So who is your dad? Was he a descendant of REAL OTTOMANS? If so, then you can say you are a Turk. If your dad was NOT a descendant of a REAL Ottomans, then by default you are NOT a REAL Turk although somebody would stamp your forehead with Turk. So you believing a lie, doesn't make it true you know.
Again no. Ottomans were just a dynasty coming from the Kayı Tribe of Oghuz Turks. There have been several other Turkic people who migrated from Turkistan to Turkey. We are all called Turks. I have mixed ethnicity if you must know. Half Turk from paternal side and half Circassian from maternal side. This makes me half Turk ethnically but I feel fully belong to the Turkich nation. Though I am quite happy with my Circassian cultural identity. But I claim my Turkish side. But again, you dont have to come from a specific ethnicity to feel yourself from that specific nation. Ethnically you can be fully Kurdish but nationally claim Turkish and reverse. Races and nations are not same things.



Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Also Kurdish nationalism? Pff..Truth hurts doesn't it. Especially when the hypocrisy and lies are brought up. Nobody likes it when their hypocrisy and lies are made transparent.
You mention and promote your Kurdishness in most of your posts. There are several different types of nationalism and this makes you "a kind of" nationalist. Not that I blame you with it. I dont discredit nationalism. I am a Turkish nationalist myself. But you are the one who demonize nationalism but yet do it at the same time.

Originally Posted by Simple_Person
I use Turks often as example, because they are THE MOST EASIEST to understand. Anybody who could just do some research can understand the example i am using. Also Turks by far are the MOST blind about truth going on. So anyways, i will repeat this time after time until hatred either emerges from you or any other Turk that reads this, or honesty emerges and they decide to look at reality as it is.

Many Arabs are also pursuing nationalism, like the Persians, like Pakistanis etc. etc. However Turks just like i said, Turks are the easiest to understand.
If we are the easiest that's perfect :)
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Simple_Person
05-27-2017, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
No. You cant come solely out of your father. You need a mother :) You can claim your mother's side as well.
So now you have suddenly become a Jew? While Islam clearly always refer to the father when it comes to the origin as well as name. =_=!...but i guess you know better than Islam and Allah who has created people right ;).

Originally Posted by anatolian
Again no. Ottomans were just a dynasty coming from the Kayı Tribe of Oghuz Turks. There have been several other Turkic people who migrated from Turkistan to Turkey. We are all called Turks. I have mixed ethnicity if you must know. Half Turk from paternal side and half Circassian from maternal side. This makes me half Turk ethnically but I feel fully belong to the Turkich nation. Though I am quite happy with my Circassian cultural identity. But I claim my Turkish side. But again, you dont have to come from a specific ethnicity to feel yourself from that specific nation. Ethnically you can be fully Kurdish but nationally claim Turkish and reverse. Races and nations are not same things.
Again, what your father is, that is your origin. What your "half" ethnicity is of the other side doesn't matter. If that was the case, you MUST have also adopted your mothers name as well, but that is NOT the case in Islam, AS WELL as here in the west. So try and try and try, it is futile.

What you "FEEL" is irrelevant. Some people they FEEL like they are a woman (born as a man), but that doesn't mean it is right and true. It is rather the case that those guys are a bit faulty in the upper chamber. Nationalism, is a concept that is invented by human beings. THIS exact thing in Islam we were warned about to NOT pursue. However you like a sheep blindly follow and you are even PROUD of it. But be my guest, as that will not really help you AT ALL when you are in your grave.

So to sum up, indeed nations and races are NOT the same. Race is the gift of Allah, while nationalities are the curse invented by human beings that create this evil we see today in many countries. But yeah you like many Turks are to blind to see that, however Allah is the all knowing, all seeing and the all wise. For single every thing has it's appointed time not a second sooner or a second later.


Originally Posted by anatolian
You mention and promote your Kurdishness in most of your posts. There are several different types of nationalism and this makes you "a kind of" nationalist. Not that I blame you with it. I dont discredit nationalism. I am a Turkish nationalist myself. But you are the one who demonize nationalism but yet do it at the same time.
You are too blind to see the line between nationalism and the gift given by Allah. Me mentioning that i am a Kurd, when it comes to a discussion about Turks..as i am NOT a Arab, NOT a Turk, NOT a Persian. This needs to be thrown in the face of people like you. When it comes to MAN-MADE Sykes–Picot, i am NOT a Turk, NOT a Arab, NOT a Persian..that again NEEDS to be thrown in the face of people like you. When some dish is mentioned once again mentioned you being a Kurd as Kurds have some dishes and also this needs to be mentioned to know the origin of some dish. Not because of feeling all nationalistic about it, but when thieves around you take EVERYTHING that originated or is part of your culture that is given by Allah one needs to stand up and repeat it again. In the past i have told you a LOT of times about that there is all those people coming from regions nearby and branding themselves Turks, while they are not Turks whatsoever. You try to twist things, because of dishonesty. When we talked about the dishes about Yaprag/Dolma and me mentioning it..i gave you reasons why most probably it was Greek..you kept silent. Because i mentioned changing name doesn't mean it suddenly originated from the Turks.

Have i promoted Kurdish flag? Absolutely NOT. As that is part of the nationalism that i reject. Have i promoted certain certain Kurdish party..?? Nope, as the only party i promoted were YPG and PKK, as exactly those two groups have been dealing with terrorist states like Turks and Arabs. Did i agree with their philosophy? Nope..based on what do i agree with them? I agree with them based on fighting oppression. Have i done more than that? Nope. Have i promoted a independent Kurdistan? Yes, based on certain condition. If NO REAL Islamic Caliphate will rise, than choosing between two evil, it is better to have a independent Kurdistan, than to be ruled by hypocrites and oppressors. What more have i done that is NOT according to what Allah has given me? You CANNOT try to twist things and make something Allah has given (in the next aya) as something pure based on nationalism.


"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:13

I do not and have never felt superior based on culture or language. As the ONLY language that is superior to other languages is Arabic. Kurdish doesn't come near it, Turkish doesn't come near it..English is even much much further away from it. You also cannot accuse me of insulting other cultures or languages. The ONLY thing that i have criticized is the lies invented by people who call themselves Muslims but lie for the sake of nationalism. That is why i also put you on your place when we were talking about dishes and you came with Turkish Kitchen, which i corrected you instantly what was Turkish and what not.

Originally Posted by anatolian
If we are the easiest that's perfect :)
Turks now a days people can not be evaded anymore. From helping ISIS, to attacking Kurds, to using Arabs to fight Kurds, to using ISIS fighting Kurds, to making deals with Israel (which is being paid for stealing resources and Turkey helping with it for own benefit) but criticizing others for doing so. For saying US are evil, but in the mean time being part of NATO and much more. The hypocrisy everybody is seeing and nobody is too blind to NOT see.

That is why they are so easy to use as example as everybody instantly will understand what i try to say.
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anatolian
05-27-2017, 07:28 PM
You continously blame me with several things which I have not even been or spoken. Sorry dude, but this makes talking with you a waste of time. Clean yourself from that hatred you have against Turks and answer me with what I say only.
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Simple_Person
05-27-2017, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
You continously blame me with several things which I have not even been or spoken. Sorry dude, but this makes talking with you a waste of time. Clean yourself from that hatred you have against Turks and answer me with what I say only.
In the past we discussed WHAT IF the Mahdi would arrive and he would say the Turks are evil and we should fight them. For you to agree to this was as if saying go kill yourself OR even when i talked about the flag..you look at Turkish flag with such a pride..while for me i take the Turkish flag to clean dog-**** from under my left shoe and Kurdish flag to clean dog-**** from my right shoe.

You do not even have the courage to say such a thing. How much do you love Islam? How much do you love nationalism? The flag does not represent me although PEOPLE have made it appear so, but i feel no connection to it. It will NOT help me when i am in my grave. While you would rather fall with your face in **** to save your flag from becoming dirty.
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AhmedGassama
05-28-2017, 01:18 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
So what is a native american? Also a sell out? Especially as muslims aren't we all coming from a single family? I don't understand this racial differentiation you guys are making.
Yes we all come from one single family but there are other points that we need to consider...
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jaybird
06-25-2017, 05:05 PM
my family is native american. natives have been protesting much more in recent years due to all the fracking and our government destroying the land and our water. very shameful
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