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anonymous
05-26-2017, 07:02 PM
Did Allah (Subhaanava Taala) transform them to apes and pigs , similar to the famous story cindarella where we read about how the rats were turned into horse or horsemen . Basically I want to understand if the verse is metaphorical or literal

Quran 5:60Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!
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fromelsewhere
05-28-2017, 11:15 PM
The explanation that makes sense to me - understanding it as a metaphorical description:

Contrary to many of the commentators who take this reference to "apes and swine" in a literal sense, the famous tabi'i Mujahid explains it as a metaphorical description (mathal) of the moral degradation which such sinners undergo: they become wildly unpredictable like apes, and as abandoned to the pursuit of lusts as swine (Manar VI, 448). This interpretation has also been quoted by Tabari in his commentary on 2:65. - As regards the expression "powers of evil" (at-taghut), see surah {2}, note [250].

From: http://www.alim.org/library/quran/ay...-your-religion
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AbdurRahman.
06-02-2017, 07:40 PM
Allah literally turned them into apes and pigs; the Prophet [saw] was asked if the current pigs and monkeys were descendants of those jews, Prophet [saw] replied that whoever Allah transformed into animals never had offspirng [and they died out]; he had the opportunity to say here that they weren't actual pigs and swine and that that was just a metaphor, but instead he confirmed that such transformed people never had offspring

Sufyan Ath-Thawri narrated that Ibn Mas`ud said, "Allah's Messenger was asked if the current monkeys and swine were those whom Allah transformed. He said,

(Allah never destroyed a people by transforming them and making offspring or descendants for them. The monkeys and swine existed before that.)'' This was also recorded by Muslim.


http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...=762&Itemid=60


we should believe in the power of ALlah that He can do as He pleases and that it's not hard for Him to literally turn into apes and swines
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fromelsewhere
06-04-2017, 09:39 AM
Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
Allah literally turned them into apes and pigs; the Prophet [saw] was asked if the current pigs and monkeys were descendants of those jews, Prophet [saw] replied that whoever Allah transformed into animals never had offspirng [and they died out]; he had the opportunity to say here that they weren't actual pigs and swine and that that was just a metaphor, but instead he confirmed that such transformed people never had offspring

Sufyan Ath-Thawri narrated that Ibn Mas`ud said, "Allah's Messenger was asked if the current monkeys and swine were those whom Allah transformed. He said,

(Allah never destroyed a people by transforming them and making offspring or descendants for them. The monkeys and swine existed before that.)'' This was also recorded by Muslim.


http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...=762&Itemid=60


we should believe in the power of ALlah that He can do as He pleases and that it's not hard for Him to literally turn into apes and swines
So is this why we don't eat pigs... because they were once Jews?
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Abz2000
06-04-2017, 11:08 AM
Muslim (2663) narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: “A man said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, are the monkeys and pigs those who have been transformed?’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Allaah does not enable those who have been transformed to have offspring or children. The monkeys and pigs existed before that.’” al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The Prophet’s words ‘The monkeys and pigs existed before that’ means that they existed before the Children of Israel were transformed, which indicates that they are not from among those who were transformed.”


And al-Tirmidhi (2212) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Among this ummah, people will be transformed into monkeys and pigs, swallowed up in the earth, and pelted with stones.” A man among the Muslims said, “O Messenger of Allaah, when will that be?” He said, “When singing-girls and musical instruments become widespread and wine is drunk.” (Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1802).

These ahaadeeth indicate that such transformations will happen in this ummah as a punishment for some sins. So let the Muslim beware of doing anything that Allaah has forbidden. Woe be to the one who provokes the anger, wrath and vengeance of Allaah. May Allaah keep us all safe from the things that incur His punishment.


https://islamqa.info/en/14085
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
06-04-2017, 11:50 AM
The transformation was literal.

والله تعالى أعلم
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OmAbdullah
06-04-2017, 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
The explanation that makes sense to me - understanding it as a metaphorical description:

Contrary to many of the commentators who take this reference to "apes and swine" in a literal sense, the famous tabi'i Mujahid explains it as a metaphorical description (mathal) of the moral degradation which such sinners undergo: they become wildly unpredictable like apes, and as abandoned to the pursuit of lusts as swine (Manar VI, 448). This interpretation has also been quoted by Tabari in his commentary on 2:65. - As regards the expression "powers of evil" (at-taghut), see surah {2}, note [250].

From: http://www.alim.org/library/quran/ay...-your-religion


The above is wrong explanation. They were actually changed into apes. See more details of the same story in the verses 163 to 166 of the surah Al-A'raaf (the 7th surah).
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OmAbdullah
06-04-2017, 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Did Allah (Subhaanava Taala) transform them to apes and pigs , similar to the famous story cindarella where we read about how the rats were turned into horse or horsemen . Basically I want to understand if the verse is metaphorical or literal

Quran 5:60Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!


They were actually changed into apes. See more details of the same story in the verses 163 to 166 of the surah Al-A'raaf (the 7th surah).
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Abz2000
06-04-2017, 01:58 PM
It is apparent from the historical record mentioned in the page I am linking that the jews of al Madina were aware of the fact that some of their predecessors had been punished severely for breaking their covenant with God. It is useful to mention that the Prophet :saws: 's mention of "brothers of monkeys" as narrated appears to have been an allusion to the incident and possibly also the fact that quraydah is similar to qiradah (apes/monkeys), he pbuh wouldn't normally use insults unless reprimanding for a huge transgression or act of folly, and in the case of banu quraydah, they had insolently transgressed and treacherously broken the just covenant they had with the Islamic State without just cause - aaide from the continual petty provocations they had purposefully perpetrated while within the covenant - which the Muslims did their steadfast best to tolerate for the sake of magnanimity.

Noun Edit
قِرْد • (qird) m (plural قِرَدَة (qirada) or قُرُود (qurūd))

monkey, ape (mammal)

From the root ق ر د (q-r-d).




When Muslims of today use such words describing them as such, it is usually out of frustration and anger at the deeds of the zionists and their continual hatred and persecution of the innocent people in their neighbouring countries - and not necessarily because they actually think that the current jews are descended from those who were transformed by Allah


- though the deeds of the majority who interact with Muslims are similar in nature.


For example, in a weekly sermon in April 2002, Al-Azhar Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, the highest-ranking cleric in the Sunni Muslim world, called the Jews "the enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs."[1]
In one of his sermons, Saudi sheikh Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis, imam and preacher at the Al-Haraam mosque – the most important mosque in Mecca – beseeched Allah to annihilate the Jews. He also urged the Arabs to give up peace initiatives with them because they are "the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs."[2]
"Read history," called Al-Sudayyis in another sermon, "and you will understand that the Jews of yesterday are the evil fathers of the Jews of today, who are evil offspring, infidels, distorters of [others'] words, calf-worshippers, prophet-murderers, prophecy-deniers... the scum of the human race 'whom Allah cursed and turned into apes and pigs...' These are the Jews, an ongoing continuum of deceit, obstinacy, licentiousness, evil, and corruption..."[3]
In a sermon at the Said Al-Jandoul mosque in Al-Taif, Saudi sheikh Ba'd bin Abdallah Al-Ajameh Al-Ghamidi explained that "the qualities of the Jews" were present at all times and in all places: "The current behavior of the brothers of apes and pigs, their treachery, violation of agreements, and defiling of holy places... is connected with the deeds of their forefathers during the early period of Islam – which proves the great similarity between all the Jews living today and the Jews who lived at the dawn of Islam."[4]
In an August 2001 sermon, Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority official and imam of the Sheikh Ijlin mosque, Gaza City's main mosque, called on the Palestinian people to forget their internal disagreements and turn all weapons against Jews: "lances must be directed at the Jews, the enemies of Allah, the nation accursed in Allah's book. Allah described [them] as apes and pigs, calf-worshipers, idol-worshippers..."[5]
Seeing Jews as "descendants of apes and pigs" is common also in Shi'ite Islam. Such statements appear, for instance, in a 1998 speech by Hizbullah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah on the occasion of the Shi'ite 'Ashoura holiday. Nasrallah regretted that the holiday fell "on the 50th anniversary of the bitter and distressing historical catastrophe of the establishment of the state of the grandsons of apes and pigs – the Zionist Jews – on the land of Palestine and Jerusalem." He closed his speech with these words: "... We reaffirm the slogan of the struggle against the Great Satan and call, like last year: 'Death to America. To the murderers of the prophets, the grandsons of apes and pigs,' we say: ... 'Death to Israel...'"[6]
These statements are made not only by clerics and preachers. Following their lead, public opinion leaders in the Arab world also call the Jews "the descendants of apes and pigs." The image has pervaded the public consciousness, even in child-rearing. In May 2002, Iqraa, the Saudi-Egyptian satellite television station, which according to its website[7] sets for itself the goals of "highlighting aspects of Arab Islamic culture that inspire respect," "highlighting the true and tolerant picture of Islam and refuting the accusations directed against Islam," and "planting a spirit of mutual understanding and dialogue among members of the nation and opening channels of cultural connection with the cultures of other nations," interviewed a three-and-a-half-year-old "real Muslim girl" about Jews. On "The Muslim Woman Magazine" program, the girl was asked whether she liked Jews; she answered, "no." When asked why she didn't like them, she said that Jews were "apes and pigs." "Who said this?" the moderator asked. The girl answered, "Our God." "Where did He say this?" "In the Koran." At the end of the interview, the pleased moderator said: "No [parents] could wish for Allah to give them a more believing girl than she... May Allah bless her, her father and mother. The next generation of children must be true Muslims. We must educate them now while they are children, so that they will be true Muslims."[8]

In April 2002, a weekly talk show on the Al-Jazeera satellite television station, "The Opposite Direction" which claims to have tens of millions of viewers across the world, addressed the question "Is Zionism worse than Nazism?" The moderator, Dr. Faisal Al-Qassam, included in the discussion the opinion of a viewer who wrote in from the station's website: "The sons of Zion, whom our God described as the sons of apes and pigs, will not be deterred unless there is a real holocaust, that will destroy all of them at once, together with the traitors – those who collaborate with them, the scum of this [Islamic] nation."[9]
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AbdurRahman.
06-04-2017, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
So is this why we don't eat pigs... because they were once Jews?
nope, we dont eat pigs as their filthy:

The pig is considered “essentially filthy” (najas al-`ayn) according to the Hanafi scholars. This means that every part of the pig is impure, whether its meat, hair, bones, or tendons.
This opinion is derived from the verse, “Say: I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine – for verily it is filthy (fa innahu rijsun)-…” [6: 145]

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32524
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fromelsewhere
06-04-2017, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
And al-Tirmidhi (2212) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Among this ummah, people will be transformed into monkeys and pigs, swallowed up in the earth, and pelted with stones.” A man among the Muslims said, “O Messenger of Allaah, when will that be?” He said, “When singing-girls and musical instruments become widespread and wine is drunk.” (Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1802).

These ahaadeeth indicate that such transformations will happen in this ummah as a punishment for some sins. So let the Muslim beware of doing anything that Allaah has forbidden. Woe be to the one who provokes the anger, wrath and vengeance of Allaah. May Allaah keep us all safe from the things that incur His punishment.
Frankly, this is the kind of stuff that makes me question religion. Such a kind and compassionate God Allaah is... all about punishment for the slightest sin, as per how you guys talk about him.
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Abz2000
06-04-2017, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Frankly, this is the kind of stuff that makes me question religion. Such a kind and compassionate God Allaah is... all about punishment for the slightest sin, as per how you guys talk about him.
Well I find the religion enjoined by the Creator more merciful, more reasonable, more stable, more just, and more truthful than the religion of queen elizabeth, donald trump, and any other secular ruler, due to their being firstly based on untrue foundations and claims of democracy and freedom, and secondly due to their unjust nature since they enjoin racism via nationalism and practice horrific greed and depravity against other races due to circumstances outside of the victims' control and not due to a just moral standard based on truth and justice for all - regardless of nationality, and heedful of the rights of all. I also find that the tendency to impose their own whims on people as they please despite how others please is them playing false god with people. In terms of mercy, well some of us have had a chance to evaluate their mercy and know that it isn't as portrayed to the masses, particularly due to the fact that they provoke people to fight for no just cause other than to stay in power and maintain deceitful moral high standing in the eyes of the dumbed down -then accuse and vilify them of and for being violent, and are guilty of purposefully framing people for crimes which they haven't commited, and have also caused all sorts of illnesses, diseases and deformities in large majorities of populations which they have invaded or taken economic control of - for the sake of greed.
So when trying to be objective instead of unjustly biased or prejudiced, I would assure you that God is the best candidate for our hopes and aspirations when it comes to justice, mercy, arbitration and standards - even though He isn't in need of us and every one of us (including leaders) is in need of Him.

The strong hand withthejews and soft hand with the christians have both been demonstrated- along with their merits and impracticalities for the global age. Islam - the balanced and tempered method has been perfected and enjoined in the final age and it sure beats any other social system on all fronts in terms of practicality, truth, justice, and moderation.
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AbdurRahman.
06-06-2017, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Frankly, this is the kind of stuff that makes me question religion. Such a kind and compassionate God Allaah is... all about punishment for the slightest sin, as per how you guys talk about him.
i think it's just not because of singing girls wine and musical instruments but the consequences such sins have; basically it gives rise to a sinful society with incredible depravity such as we have in western culture now; fornication etc is associated with those sins and others!
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