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DunyaStory
05-28-2017, 08:36 PM
Assalamu alaikum brothers.
I am from Croatia,Europe and I have converted to Islam 1 year ago. Recently I decided to do what I can to raise awareness about important topics regarding Islam.
So my friend and I asked people from different countries, do they think that Islam is to blame for Manchester bombing.
If you have time and will to support us in further video making of Islamic related videos, inshAllah watch our video and share it...Shukran !


Here is the link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXu0PA92pJg
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Scottish Celt
05-28-2017, 09:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
Assalamu alaikum brothers.
I am from Croatia,Europe and I have converted to Islam 1 year ago. Recently I decided to do what I can to raise awareness about important topics regarding Islam.
So my friend and I asked people from different countries, do they think that Islam is to blame for Manchester bombing.
If you have time and will to support us in further video making of Islamic related videos, inshAllah watch our video and share it...Shukran !


Here is the link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXu0PA92pJg
salam alaikum brother,good wee video,i enjoyed that
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DunyaStory
05-28-2017, 09:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
salam alaikum brother,good wee video,i enjoyed that
we alaikum assalam brother, thank you very much
i hope you will enjoy more islam-related videos that we will make
inshAllah we will manage to show europe and americans the truth about Islam
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Scimitar
05-28-2017, 09:24 PM
Assalaam alaikum

I refuse to apologise to anyone for the Manchester Bombing..

Why should I apologise when I am in London? What? Because I'm a Muslim? SO WHAT? I'M NOT APOLOGISING TO ANYONE FOR THAT EVENT.

To apologise is to ADMIT GUILT - and heck, I aint guilty of no crime like that!

FIND THE CULRPITS - GET YOUR APOLOGY FROM THEM, THEN DO AS THOU WILT WITH THEM - ME NUH CARE FO DAT!

Scimi
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DunyaStory
05-28-2017, 09:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Assalaam alaikum

I refuse to apologise to anyone for the Manchester Bombing..

Why should I apologise when I am in London? What? Because I'm a Muslim? SO WHAT? I'M NOT APOLOGISING TO ANYONE FOR THAT EVENT.

To apologise is to ADMIT GUILT - and heck, I aint guilty of no crime like that!

FIND THE CULRPITS - GET YOUR APOLOGY FROM THEM, THEN DO AS THOU WILT WITH THEM - ME NUH CARE FO DAT!

Scimi
Wa alaikum assalam brother.
We have to be realistic in this situation. We, muslim brothers, understand each other, but do people from non muslims culture understand us ?
They have no knowledge about Islam, they dont know if you maybe support this monster who killed innocent children!
Because of that fact, that people are doing wrong acts of violence in the name of Islam ( which is our religion brother) we have to make a stand, but , we apologize to nobody!
We will not apologize for following the truth, but we are expected to defend our good name as Muslims! We are expected to say loud that we feel bad for every innocent soul that gets hurt, nothing more, nothing less!
Allah hafiz brother!
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fromelsewhere
05-28-2017, 10:22 PM
Most people don't blame Islam for the Manchester bombings, but many wonder why most terrorist attacks that are happening around the globe today are caused mainly by Islamic groups, whether it be ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab, and so on... I think the answer lies with some preachers who are hijacking Islam for political purposes. We have to stop preachers of hate from hijacking Islam. The best way is through education...

The OP has decided to raise awareness regarding Islam to non-Muslims. Good, but I think some Muslims also need education on Islam because clearly some Muslims don't understand that murdering kids is Haram.
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Scimitar
05-28-2017, 10:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
Wa alaikum assalam brother.
wa alaykum as salaam,

format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
We have to be realistic in this situation. We, muslim brothers, understand each other, but do people from non muslims culture understand us ?

They have no knowledge about Islam, they dont know if you maybe support this monster who killed innocent children!
2 things brother,

1) I don't understand Buddhism, but I do not go around condemning all Buddhists for the Genocide of the Rohinghya which is still going on in Burma/Myamnar - because common sense tells me that terrorism has nothing to do with religion. So no, this shameful act has nothing to do with Islam - despite the media attempting to portray otherwise. If I admit I am sorry and apologise for that event then I am, by way of admission, guilty - YET - in reality, I had NOTHING to do with that shameful act and will never ever adopt extremist and irreligious points of view which could harm of endanger others.

So - apology, out of the question.

2) Your video has already proven that guests/tourists to your country from ALL OVER THE WORLD, know that Islam is not responsible for this event - so why should we apologise? An Apology - is an Admission Of Guilt - WE ARE NOT GUILTY. Hope you understand!

Scimi
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sister herb
05-28-2017, 10:40 PM
I agree with br Scimi. I am sick of tired to apology every times when some lunatics do something like in UK. I and my religion just hasn´t nothing to do with such things - and this is what I say to people if they wondering why I don´t condemn every terrorist acts what in this world might happen.

Do Christians or atheists condemn and apology all acts, attacks and crimes what some from Christian or atheist background terrorist or criminal or who ever might do? Usually no.
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DunyaStory
05-28-2017, 10:51 PM
Brothers, I perfectly understand what you want to say. I agree with you 100% , and you can see that I said here that we apologize to nobody!
But your approach to this situation can still be a little bit better. We have to think about people like me. Why's that ? Its because I am living in city that has probably 0 muslims beside me.
Do you know how easily can people like me be misguided about Islam ? Alhamdulilah I met online some brothers who guided me in the right path, and the first thing that helped me on that path was their manners and patiance !
Nobody is asking from us directly to apologize, neither am I stating that. I just want to say that we need to be louder in explaining to others that THOSE killers who kill in the name of Allah are completly different category, and explain why is that. You cant tell me that true muslims dont have a burden if they live in non muslim country ? People are looking at me wrong all the time since I became muslim, but when I with patiance and right approach explain people how Islam has changed me to be a much better person and what is Islam truly about- they change the way they look at me! Wallahi some of them have started to greet me with ''Assalamu alaikum'' , and that is because I earned their respect as good person first, and then as muslim second !
Basicly I agree with you brothers, but I just want to say that we need to have proper approach in this situation since it has become very delicate. People are killing innoccent children in Europe in the name of Allah?!? We can do alot if we act more loudly! That is the reason why i made the video.
Hope you understand me brothers, I wish you all the best :)
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Scimitar
05-28-2017, 11:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
I agree with br Scimi. I am sick of tired to apology every times when some lunatics do something like in UK. I and my religion just hasn´t nothing to do with such things - and this is what I say to people if they wondering why I don´t condemn every terrorist acts what in this world might happen.

Do Christians or atheists condemn and apology all acts, attacks and crimes what some from Christian or atheist background terrorist or criminal or who ever might do? Usually no.
I condemn all acts of terrorism, but I do not see why I must apologise for any of them - simple.

Scimi
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Scimitar
05-28-2017, 11:31 PM
Salaam bro DunyaStory,

I liked the rest of your post so I'm only quoting the part I want to reply to:

format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
People are killing innoccent children in Europe in the name of Allah?!? We can do alot if we act more loudly! That is the reason why i made the video.
Hope you understand me brothers, I wish you all the best :)
No one kills in the name of Allah, innocents - no where in the Qur'an nor Sunnah did this ever happen - and so it is an antithetical idea to assume as a formal justification. It doesn't work for me.

Scimi
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Serinity
05-29-2017, 01:13 AM
:salam:

Obviously, Islam condemns the killings of innocents / terrorism. But as Brother Scimitar says, we shouldn't apologize. I understand we need to clarify that killing innocents is condemned by Islam.

I will just from now on not apologize for what some Muslim has done. If anyone asks "why?" - it is cuz Islam condemns it - and why should we always apologize for what we have not done?

Allahu alam
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anatolian
05-29-2017, 01:24 AM
Salam. What he says has some truth. Common senses are shaped by the actions of people. So when people see some specific actions are done by some specific people most of the time, they may develop a common sense that that specific action is related to a common ground of those people. In our example its Muslims most of the time who commit terrorist acts in the west so they started to think that it is because of Islam. That doesnt require us to apoligize but educate them or atleast inform them its nothing to do with Islam
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muslim brother
05-29-2017, 01:52 AM
yes in legal terms to issue an apology is an admission of guilt.
to condemn is obvious but either its not loud enough.or it falls on deaf ears.there is also the issue of constantly proving your innocence and humanity ,which is unfair of course.
i hope you have heard my bbc interviews and read my blog and forum posts.
in the end it is upto us to learn how to communicate with sensitivity but honestly.and that is not so easy.
everyones an "expert"...but in reality some of us had no choice in the matter.communication is key in these very difficult times.even musa a.s. made dua to allah for the ability to communicate properly.
if a prophet did so...shouldnt we?
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Eric H
05-29-2017, 05:23 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Scimi my friend,

I do not see why I must apologise for any of them - simple.
I totally agree with you, but you can continue to voice this opinion of yours.

I condemn all acts of terrorism. No one kills in the name of Allah, innocents - no where in the Qur'an nor Sunnah did this ever happen
And we can all pray for the victims of all faiths and of no faith.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric
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Scimitar
05-29-2017, 01:27 PM
My friend Kevin, who is an Hindu - found out about the Manchester bombing before I did, and informed like this:

"Bro, you hear about the Manchester bombing?"

"what bombing?" i replied,

"don't you watch the ne.." he cut off mid sentence and pulled out his phone, bought the article up. I snorted and smirked, "I guess they'll be blaming the MOOZLUMS for it eh?" said I.

He cackled and replied "you know they'll be demanding apologies from all Muslim in this nation again right?"

"Not from me" said I and he smiled and said "dam right bro, aint your problem, so don't admit an apology of guilt" we both bumped fists and that was that.

Now, all people of Blighty know that Muslims are non violent and peaceful people - they know what a false flag is - and they know the lengths our voted govenrment will go to in order to tarnish the image of Islam.

WHY?

Because the flouride levels in our water are well below the danger zone, unlike what the yanks have to suffer.

Now for the investigation:

It comes as no surprise to us, but new evidence appears to show that Salman Abedi, the Manchester Arena bomber, was a asset. *See above header video for more details.It is already admitted by the UK government that Salman Abedi was known to them and now this new evidence seems to confirm that Salman Abedi and his family were used by the British Intelligence agencies as proxy assets. This is obviously the reason why no action was taken when he was reported to Mi5. They did not want to deactivate an asset.
He regularly travelled to Syria and Libya to fight with ISIS linked groups with the permission of British intelligence and allowed to return to Britain at will.
Sauce: http://www.oye.news/news/war/terrori...nce-mi6-asset/
Maybe the MI6 need to apologise to the UK's Muslims and the UK in general, no?

Scimi
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DunyaStory
05-29-2017, 01:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
My friend Kevin, who is an Hindu - found out about the Manchester bombing before I did, and informed like this:

"Bro, you hear about the Manchester bombing?"

"what bombing?" i replied,

"don't you watch the ne.." he cut off mid sentence and pulled out his phone, bought the article up. I snorted and smirked, "I guess they'll be blaming the MOOZLUMS for it eh?" said I.
i
Dear brother ,I have no doubt in your heart and its intentions, but such approach can present wrong image in the outside.
Our first reaction has to be saddness due to loss of innoccent lives. Every muslim has to be clear and loud about that, after that if anyone tries to blame you as muslim for what happened, you can make yourself clear that you (and I) wont apologize to anyone since we carry NO guild whatsoever.
I hope you understand what I want to say when commenting that your approach may seem a bit insensitive to other non muslims.
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Simple_Person
05-29-2017, 02:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
Dear brother ,I have no doubt in your heart and its intentions, but such approach can present wrong image in the outside.
Our first reaction has to be saddness due to loss of innoccent lives. Every muslim has to be clear and loud about that, after that if anyone tries to blame you as muslim for what happened, you can make yourself clear that you (and I) wont apologize to anyone since we carry NO guild whatsoever.
I hope you understand what I want to say when commenting that your approach may seem a bit insensitive to other non muslims.
Brother what one needs to do is NEVER APPOLIGIZE for such a thing. Instead show outrage for such a act. When somebody says this is Islam it's fault you ask them here I have the Qur'an and the ahadith..these are the books that we Muslims go by. Show me where it says we should do such a act. That is the moment the honest upset non-Muslim will be confused and start asking questions. The dishonest non-Muslim no matter what you say it is all the same. Just leave this one be in his ignorance. However NEVER appoligize because we know that there are events that are false flags but Islam is not saying anything as such. So instead of making yourself be the criminal educate those people. Do please ponder about what we try to tell you. Because when you appoligize you do Islam even more harm but saying this is indeed because of Islam.
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sister herb
05-29-2017, 02:50 PM
Daesh murders people all over the world but why just this Manchester bombing is on the headlines by the brightest colors - and the most discussed in here too?
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Scimitar
05-29-2017, 04:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
Dear brother ,I have no doubt in your heart and its intentions, but such approach can present wrong image in the outside.
Our first reaction has to be saddness due to loss of innoccent lives. Every muslim has to be clear and loud about that, after that if anyone tries to blame you as muslim for what happened, you can make yourself clear that you (and I) wont apologize to anyone since we carry NO guild whatsoever.
I hope you understand what I want to say when commenting that your approach may seem a bit insensitive to other non muslims.
Brother, first of all, my prayers are with the dead and the families of those who lost loved ones - my thoughts are not with those who need me to admit any guilt or show any sympathy as my proof of being non violent.

I owe them nothing.

They owe me and my people - the Muslims - a MASSIVE apology for remaining ignorant about the Muslims they live alongside in this nation we call "great Britain".

They've done very little to understand us, to integrate with us - they just want us to integrate with them and lose our identity. They want us to lose the hijab, the beards, the thowbs, the miswak, and the salaat - because it's not British.

They complain that we build too many mosques when they themselves do not enter churches on Sundays - and instead of letting these disused churches turn into nightclubs (blasphemy) like they did with the church turned into a nightclub called - The Mass in Brixton - the Muslims buy them and turn them into mosques so the worship of God may continue in this land - AND THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS.

These are not people WHO CARE ok?

These are those who cause corruptions in the lands.

I do not bow to their whip - I will never bow to their whip.

I will maintain my integrity and honour as a Muslim and remain "unopologetic" for crimes I did not commit.

Until they listen to reason and not the mindless media monkeying - they are not getting any conversation from me.

Every Sunday I go to speakers corner and I film the debates/discussions and on occasion I also get involved in these myself - And NEVER will any Daee apologise for these unislamic acts which are antithetical to islam itself.

Scimi
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muslim brother
05-29-2017, 04:19 PM
brother i hear you .we are innocent .but lets also focus on the good in society.i know times are difficult.duas and sabr needed.for me too
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DunyaStory
05-29-2017, 05:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Brother, first of all, my prayers are with the dead and the families of those who lost loved ones - my thoughts are not with those who need me to admit any guilt or show any sympathy as my proof of being non violent.

I owe them nothing.

They owe me and my people - the Muslims - a MASSIVE apology for remaining ignorant about the Muslims they live alongside in this nation we call "great Britain".

They've done very little to understand us, to integrate with us - they just want us to integrate with them and lose our identity. They want us to lose the hijab, the beards, the thowbs, the miswak, and the salaat - because it's not British.

They complain that we build too many mosques when they themselves do not enter churches on Sundays - and instead of letting these disused churches turn into nightclubs (blasphemy) like they did with the church turned into a nightclub called - The Mass in Brixton - the Muslims buy them and turn them into mosques so the worship of God may continue in this land - AND THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS.

These are not people WHO CARE ok?

These are those who cause corruptions in the lands.

I do not bow to their whip - I will never bow to their whip.

I will maintain my integrity and honour as a Muslim and remain "unopologetic" for crimes I did not commit.

Until they listen to reason and not the mindless media monkeying - they are not getting any conversation from me.

Every Sunday I go to speakers corner and I film the debates/discussions and on occasion I also get involved in these myself - And NEVER will any Daee apologise for these unislamic acts which are antithetical to islam itself.

Scimi
Very strong post brother, I agree with everything. From beginning to end. We are on the same page indeed ;)
Allah hafiz !
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muslim brother
05-29-2017, 06:08 PM
there are many in our mosques and institutes who will not have to deal with much interaction with non muslims,thats a fact.
they will carry on in cocoon land and condemn of course and then say what can we do..nothing to do with us..which is true to a point.

then there are those who have to go to work/college/uni etc and have to interact with everybody and deal with this everyday.

the cocooned ones could at least allow talks in english about this whole issue.
yes some do but who do they get for the talks?
who should they be using?


the reality is as i,ve been saying for years ..talking to the brick wall in front of me..

we will all have to learn how to deal with this..all of us.
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Scimitar
05-29-2017, 06:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED PATEL
there are many in our mosques and institutes who will not have to deal with much interaction with non muslims,thats a fact.
they will carry on in cocoon land and condemn of course and then say what can we do..nothing to do with us..which is true to a point.

then there are those who have to go to work/college/uni etc and have to interact with everybody and deal with this everyday.

the cocooned ones could at least allow talks in english about this whole issue.
yes some do but who do they get for the talks?
who should they be using?


the reality is as i,ve been saying for years ..talking to the brick wall in front of me..

we will all have to learn how to deal with this..all of us.
Brother Ahmed Patel Saab, I love your posts, your blog, your efforts - it seems you are a kindred spirit to me. Ma sha Allah may Allah reward you abundantly for your efforts in both this life and the next, ameen.

NOW, to move forward.

Was this a false flag event? Did MI6 involve a sleeper agent who is also a Muslim in this plot? what pressure was he under and what threat was his family under from the MI6?

Why is no one willing to ask these questions?

Why did no one pick up on my post regarding MI6 on the previous page?

Are you all too afraid of what governments are watching you? Do you not realise that Allah watches us all?

We Are Weak as an Ummah.

100 years have passed since the dismantling of the khilafa, we have been humiliated and oppressed for one hundred years - your state as an UMMAH is WEAK BEYOND BELIEF.

The time is NOW RIPE for the reviver to appear.

May Allah speed him, Ameen!

Scimi
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Scimitar
05-29-2017, 06:49 PM
DO NOT HUMILIATE ME BY ASKING ME TO APOLOIGISE - DO NOT HUMILIATE ISLAM BY APOLOGISING FOR CRIMES THAT ARE NOT ISLAMIC!!!

Remember who you are and what you represent - it's not your opinion you represent in this day and age - it is ISLAM. You forget that? you become toast!

Don't be toast!

Scimi
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DunyaStory
05-29-2017, 07:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
DO NOT HUMILIATE ME BY ASKING ME TO APOLOIGISE - DO NOT HUMILIATE ISLAM BY APOLOGISING FOR CRIMES THAT ARE NOT ISLAMIC!!!

Remember who you are and what you represent - it's not your opinion you represent in this day and age - it is ISLAM. You forget that? you become toast!

Don't be toast!

Scimi
Altho I have come to an conclusion that I agree with you in everything you say, your way of talking is a bit too harsh. There is no need for that, it will distract people from your good thoughts.
We show them much more about us with sabr and manners. And I AM NOT saying that we should apologize, i'm just saying we should have a more tactical and strategic approach in the way we present ourselves.
There is time and place for everything brother, may Allah(swt) keep us on the right path.
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Scimitar
05-29-2017, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
Altho I have come to an conclusion that I agree with you in everything you say, your way of talking is a bit too harsh. There is no need for that, it will distract people from your good thoughts.
We show them much more about us with sabr and manners. And I AM NOT saying that we should apologize, i'm just saying we should have a more tactical and strategic approach in the way we present ourselves.
There is time and place for everything brother, may Allah(swt) keep us on the right path.
Honestly bro - I couldn't care less for what people make of me.

A sign of weakness in people is that they look at the delivery and ignore the message - it's idiotic and unislamic.

Even the Prophet pbuh warned people in harsh tones at times - i'm just following sunnah while you guys follow stupidity.

God bless you coz you need it.

Scimi
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Abz2000
05-29-2017, 08:24 PM
It really is weird that certain people are willing to accept any atrocity by their criminal government and it's criminal allies when their criminal government and allies invoke the false flag controlled demolition of two towers and building 7, yet are willing to close their minds to the suffering, deaths, injuries and torture of millions of innocent people based on the lies and false accusations of their governments, then when a reaction on a comparitively minor scale comes, or another false flag by their government, or it's cunning zionist, or aggressively bullying American ally for not playing the game of crime convincingly enough or for losing public opinion - they'll again turn accusatorily to the people who they abuse.

I'll be honest, I've become so desensitized to the plight hundreds of thousands of deaths, (possibly a natural psychological reaction to stop me going mad from depression) that I find it difficult to think of a relatively minor incident in the country which perpetrates unjust murder all over the globe, people need to ask their own government to stop commiting crimes if they're worried about reactions that are minor in scale and comparison.
Honestly, my brain can't even register it properly - even though I know that there might possibly (though most likely won't) be some people who care about the criminal actions and murders of their government.

They remind me of Pharaoh's people. Honestly.
It's the kids that I feel for since I'm forced to think about it due to the sheer volume of press coverage- even though their parents took them to a lewd concert.

I think I recall a report in which Queen Elizabeth's ally George Bush or Condoleezza or Susan rice said something like: the deaths of 500,000 children in Iraq was "worth it" - but Allah has protected me from becoming so sick.

Edit: it was madeleine albright

http://fair.org/extra/we-think-the-price-is-worth-it/
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Atta Rahman
05-29-2017, 11:11 PM
Yes people do blame Muslims for such atrocities, but only the ignorant, gullible and outspoken critics of islam. The majority know and understand the facts of the matter and frankly, there are more non Muslims out there who speak in defence and support of Islam and Muslims. Just look at how many of them come out to protest advocating for our rights time and time again...
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fromelsewhere
05-30-2017, 12:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
It really is weird that certain people are willing to accept any atrocity by their criminal government and it's criminal allies when their criminal government and allies invoke the false flag controlled demolition of two towers and building 7, yet are willing to close their minds to the suffering, deaths, injuries and torture of millions of innocent people based on the lies and false accusations of their governments, then when a reaction on a comparitively minor scale comes, or another false flag by their government, or it's cunning zionist, or aggressively bullying American ally for not playing the game of crime convincingly enough or for losing public opinion - they'll again turn accusatorily to the people who they abuse.

I'll be honest, I've become so desensitized to the plight hundreds of thousands of deaths, (possibly a natural psychological reaction to stop me going mad from depression) that I find it difficult to think of a relatively minor incident in the country which perpetrates unjust murder all over the globe, people need to ask their own government to stop commiting crimes if they're worried about reactions that are minor in scale and comparison.
Honestly, my brain can't even register it properly - even though I know that there might possibly (though most likely won't) be some people who care about the criminal actions and murders of their government.

They remind me of Pharaoh's people. Honestly.
It's the kids that I feel for since I'm forced to think about it due to the sheer volume of press coverage- even though their parents took them to a lewd concert.

I think I recall a report in which Queen Elizabeth's ally George Bush or Condoleezza or Susan rice said something like: the deaths of 500,000 children in Iraq was "worth it" - but Allah has protected me from becoming so sick.

Edit: it was madeleine albright

http://fair.org/extra/we-think-the-price-is-worth-it/
Again, more conspiracy theories.

The UK does NOT intentionally target innocent civilians. When it fights idiots like ISIS, it is aiming at the ISIS terrorists. But ISIS terrorists are cowards and force civilians to stay put or they threaten to murder the local population, so the local population in some cities and villages in Syria become hostages to ISIS and are purposefully forced to stay in war zones so that ISIS can then make armies that try to drive them out look bad. This is a well-known terrorist tactic. Note that I am not for foreign intervention in the Middle East because even though I think Western countries believe that they are helping, they are clearly not... in fact, they end up making things worse because of their poor understanding of what's going on on the grounds. They should stay at home and let the people in the Middle East resolve their conflicts on their own.

On the reverse, ISIS intentionally targets innocent civilians. Aside from the horrible murders ISIS commits, it also slanders Islam.

As for the incident with Madeleine Albright, I looked it up. It happened in 1996, and Albright was defending UN sanctions against Iraq. The journalist asked a trap yes/no question: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Albright answered the question very poorly by saying "yes", as typical US politicians tend to do. But to imply that the half a million children died as a direct result of America's actions is simply not true. As for where that journalist got that half a million figure from is quite questionable. All deaths occurring in Iraq after the 1991 sanctions were passed were being blamed on the sanctions at the time. Either way, this is an old incident from the post-Gulf war era. This article here helps explain another anti-American "myth" of US being "evil": http://reason.com/archives/2002/03/0...-dead-children Please read.

Let's not get everything confused with more conspiracy theories.

Thank you.
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muslim brother
05-30-2017, 01:18 AM
as you all get older you will realize anger solves nothing.redirect your anger to the gym.punchbag,writing,walking,praying.
this is the time to act upon hadiths and sunnah.
the taif stoning of our beloved prophet and his monumental patience and dua sets a historical precedent of patience against all odds.
making angels cry..
the acknowledgement of ones complete and utter weakness but complete faith in allah.
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Scimitar
05-30-2017, 02:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Again, more conspiracy theories.
Again more drivel driven rhetorical bum licking of the west.

Scimi
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Eric H
05-30-2017, 02:31 AM
Scimi my friend,

DO NOT HUMILIATE ME BY ASKING ME TO APOLOIGISE - DO NOT HUMILIATE ISLAM BY APOLOGISING FOR CRIMES THAT ARE NOT ISLAMIC!!!
I categorically will not apologise for the Manchester bombings either, so why should you? Just promote the good in Islam as you always do.

Blessings,

Eric
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Scimitar
05-30-2017, 02:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Scimi my friend,



I categorically will not apologise for the Manchester bombings either, so why should you?
Why would anyone admit guilt by way of apology when they are not guilty?

A better question would be - why are Muslims expected to apologise for unislamic acts? Anyone can claim the acts of terrorism are done in the name of Islam - but to make THAT STICK, you'd have to find in the Qur'an and Sunnah ACTS OF TERRORISM first - and they simply DO NOT EXIST.

SO FIRST - LET US PUT OUR THINKING HATS ON, LEAVE OPINION TO THE SIDE AND MATHEMATICALLY DECUCE THE REALITY. Because logic isn't the strong point of our members - I take them back to basic math.


format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Just promote the good in Islam as you always do.

Blessings,

Eric

So I am.

And the good in Islam also comes in many forms, such as WARNINGS - not sweet sugar coated contempt! People misconstrue my words as harsh, while they LOL and smiley face all over the place to avoid infringing on anothers sensibilities - well for that to work, the person must be sensible - and members here are anything but sensible from what I have gathered in my time here.

I do not consider good works to simply be acts and works and advices fo kindness, but also harsh warnings when no warners are around.

In sh'Allah those who hate me now will thank me in Jannah for advising them so harshly that they actually researched what I wrote and then understood it - then - acted on it.

Anyone who thinks I am harsh, is thus, weak and unable to do what I do. They are unable to effectiely warn people of the evil they entertain.

heck just last night one person on whatsapp told me I was lucky - I had to explain that LUCK is a false concept. Allah wills. this minor shirk is what the Muslims have no idea about - replace the word LUCK with FORTUNE to be in line with Islamic reasoning, simple stuff like this is unnoticed by Muslims.

Because Muslims today are JAAHIL.

Scimi
Reply

Eric H
05-30-2017, 02:49 AM
Greetings and peace be with you fromelsewhere;

As for the incident with Madeleine Albright, I looked it up. It happened in 1996, and Albright was defending UN sanctions against Iraq. The journalist asked a trap yes/no question: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Albright answered the question very poorly by saying "yes", as typical US politicians tend to do.
What collateral damage is acceptable for America to achieve it's goal? Madeleine Albright's answer seems to represent the views of some American politicians, half a million child deaths does not seem to be a shocking number.

But to imply that the half a million children died as a direct result of America's actions is simply not true. As for where that journalist got that half a million figure from is quite questionable.
But from Madeline's initial answer, she seemed prepared to accept anything up to half a million deaths.

All deaths occurring in Iraq after the 1991 sanctions were passed were being blamed on the sanctions at the time. Either way, this is an old incident from the post-Gulf war era.
If this was an old and never to be repeated incident, then we could shrug it off. But after 1996, America has been involved in a catalogue of military interventions and sanctions.

In the spirit of praying for justice and peace for all people.

Eric
Reply

Scimitar
05-30-2017, 02:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you fromelsewhere;



What collateral damage is acceptable for America to achieve it's goal? Madeleine Albright's answer seems to represent the views of some American politicians, half a million child deaths does not seem to be a shocking number.
Is that your opinion? or are you paraphrasing Madeleine Albright?

Scimi
Reply

Eric H
05-30-2017, 03:16 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Scimi, as always,

Is that your opinion? or are you paraphrasing Madeleine Albright?
I am against all war, any solution that involves a gun / bomb can only produce more injustice. Sorry if my reply was ambiguous.

When Madeline said half a million child deaths was acceptable, it seems to show a clear lack of concern for children in other countries. Numbers are irrelevant, even if the true number was only ten thousand child deaths, it would be acceptable to her. And her attitude suggested that if another 490,000 deaths followed, she would still not be troubled.

I hope I am horribly wrong in what I have said. When you look at the war record of America and Britain since WW2, can we truthfully accept that we have the best intentions for all people?

In the spirit of praying for justice and peace for al people.

Eric
Reply

Scimitar
05-30-2017, 03:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Scimi, as always,
And upon you as well brother Eric!



format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
I am against all war, any solution that involves a gun / bomb can only produce more injustice. Sorry if my reply was ambiguous.
No need for apologies brother Eric, I was simply attempting to clarify that is all.

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
When Madeline said half a million child deaths was acceptable, it seems to show a clear lack of concern for children in other countries. Numbers are irrelevant, even if the true number was only ten thousand child deaths, it would be acceptable to her. And her attitude suggested that if another 490,000 deaths followed, she would still not be troubled.

I hope I am horribly wrong in what I have said. When you look at the war record of America and Britain since WW2, can we truthfully accept that we have the best intentions for all people?

In the spirit of praying for justice and peace for al people.

Eric
Theresa May, PM of England has also said some naughty stuff lol.

She was asked if the weapons of mass destruction lies were pushed on her - would she hesitate to nuke Iraq? She said NO - she would not hesitate for one second, and that my brother - is one GOG MAGOG of a woman. She admitted she'd nuke Iraq over a LIE !!!

And she said so with a poker face, not a shred of shame evident on it.

Scimi
Reply

Eric H
05-30-2017, 03:41 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Scimitar;

Theresa May, PM of England has also said some naughty stuff lol.

She was asked if the weapons of mass destruction lies were pushed on her - would she hesitate to nuke Iraq? She said NO - she would not hesitate for one second, and that my brother - is one GOG MAGOG of a woman. She admitted she'd nuke Iraq over a LIE !!!
We the people are stupid, we are led like sheep wherever our leaders choose. Leaders have known this for centuries, Herman Goering put it plainly into words at his trial. Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, Theresa May, George Bush and big Don know the war formula, and here it is.....


"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY." --Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
The constant drip feed on the war against terror has unified countries, we have a common enemy. At any time Theresa May could trigger the Herman Goering formula for war, and she would get the backing of the people, and she knows it. Jeremy Corbyn has been branded a dangerous unpatriotic pacifist, and with a general election days away, we can only pray for a God filled outcome.

In the spirit of praying for justice and peace for all people.

Eric

Eric
Reply

Scimitar
05-30-2017, 04:04 AM
There's no such thing as a pacifist in parliament

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
05-30-2017, 12:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Again, more conspiracy theories.

The UK does NOT intentionally target innocent civilians. When it fights idiots like ISIS, it is aiming at the ISIS terrorists. But ISIS terrorists are cowards and force civilians to stay put or they threaten to murder the local population, so the local population in some cities and villages in Syria become hostages to ISIS and are purposefully forced to stay in war zones so that ISIS can then make armies that try to drive them out look bad. This is a well-known terrorist tactic. Note that I am not for foreign intervention in the Middle East because even though I think Western countries believe that they are helping, they are clearly not... in fact, they end up making things worse because of their poor understanding of what's going on on the grounds. They should stay at home and let the people in the Middle East resolve their conflicts on their own.

On the reverse, ISIS intentionally targets innocent civilians. Aside from the horrible murders ISIS commits, it also slanders Islam.

As for the incident with Madeleine Albright, I looked it up. It happened in 1996, and Albright was defending UN sanctions against Iraq. The journalist asked a trap yes/no question: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Albright answered the question very poorly by saying "yes", as typical US politicians tend to do. But to imply that the half a million children died as a direct result of America's actions is simply not true. As for where that journalist got that half a million figure from is quite questionable. All deaths occurring in Iraq after the 1991 sanctions were passed were being blamed on the sanctions at the time. Either way, this is an old incident from the post-Gulf war era. This article here helps explain another anti-American "myth" of US being "evil": http://reason.com/archives/2002/03/0...-dead-children Please read.

Let's not get everything confused with more conspiracy theories.

Thank you.
Maybe you're referring to britain's installed regional ally Mossad - the
Israeli Secret Intelligence Service
Since your descriptions fit them well.

The manchester incident hasn't been tried in court or had a completed investigation - yet, your secularist politicians and their puppet media are already drawing conclusions and pointing the finger and accusing people of being bombers - including Conspiracy theories and lone wolf theories. Whereas re. 9/11 everybody knows that the biggest conspiracy theory is the story of a conspiracy fed to the public by the bush administration - with some of those accused of blowing themselves up with their wills on board -being found alive in their home countries..

I had thought that the following article would be something I'd quickly scan through due to it's length, but upon reading the first part - have decided to save it as an essential read - it addresses most of your errr..refutations in the quoted post.




https://www.theguardian.com/theguard...kend7.weekend9

Saturday 4 March 2000

.....
.
An excerpt: (though the whole article is a riveting read).

....The next day, I saw a similar line of women and children, and fathers and children, in the cancer ward at the Al Mansour children's hospital. It is not unlike St Thomas's in London. Drugs arrived, they said, but intermittently, so that children with leukaemia, who can be saved with a full course of three anti-biotics, pass a point beyond which they cannot be saved, because one is missing. Children with meningitis can also survive with the precise dosage of antibiotics; here they die. "Four milligrams save a life," said Dr Mohamed Mahmud, "but so often we are allowed no more than one milligram." This is a teaching hospital, yet children die because there are no blood-collecting bags and no machines that separate blood platelets: basic equipment in any British hospital. Replacements and spare parts have been "on hold" in New York, together with incubators, X-ray machines, and heart and lung machines.

I sat in a clinic as doctors received parents and their children, some of them dying. After every other examination, Dr Lekaa Fasseh Ozeer, the oncologist, wrote in English: "No drugs available." I asked her to jot down in my notebook a list of the drugs the hospital had ordered, but rarely saw. In London, I showed this to Professor Karol Sikora who, as chief of the cancer programme of the World Health Organisation (WHO), wrote in the British Medical Journal last year: "Requested radiotherapy equipment, chemotherapy drugs and analgesics are consistently blocked by United States and British advisers [to the Sanctions Committee in New York]. There seems to be a rather ludicrous notion that such agents could be converted into chemical or other weapons."

He told me, "Nearly all these drugs are available in every British hospital. They're very standard. When I came back from Iraq last year, with a group of experts I drew up a list of 17 drugs that are deemed essential for cancer treatment. We informed the UN that there was no possibility of converting these drugs into chemical warfare agents. We heard nothing more. The saddest thing I saw in Iraq was children dying because there was no chemotherapy and no pain control. It seemed crazy they couldn't have morphine, because for everybody with cancer pain, it is the best drug. When I was there, they had a little bottle of aspirin pills to go round 200 patients in pain. They would receive a particular anti-cancer drug, but then get only little bits of drugs here and there, and so you can't have any planning. It is bizarre."

In January, last year, George Robertson, then defence secretary, said, "Saddam Hussein has in warehouses $275 million worth of medicines and medical supplies which he refuses to distribute." The British government knew this was false, because UN humanitarian officials had made clear the problem of drugs and equipment coming sporadically into Iraq - such as machines without a crucial part, IV fluids and syringes arriving separately - as well as the difficulties of transport and the need for a substantial buffer stock. "The goods that come into this country are distributed to where they belong," said Hans von Sponeck. "Our most recent stock analysis shows that 88.8% of all humanitarian supplies have been distributed." The representatives of Unicef, the World Food Programme and the Food and Agricultural Organisation confirmed this. If Saddam Hussein believed he could draw an advantage from obstructing humanitarian aid, he would no doubt do so. However, according to a FAO study: "The government of Iraq introduced a public food rationing system with effect from within a month of the imposition of the embargo. It provides basic foods at 1990 prices, which means they are now virtually free. This has a life-saving nutritional benefit . . . and has prevented catastrophe for the Iraqi people.".......

........A courtly, eloquent Irishman, Denis Halliday resigned as co-ordinator of humanitarian relief to Iraq in 1998, after 34 years with the UN; he was then Assistant Secretary-General of the United Nations, one of the elite of senior officials. He had made his career in development, "attempting to help people, not harm them". His was the first public expression of an unprecedented rebellion within the UN bureaucracy. "I am resigning," he wrote, "because the policy of economic sanctions is totally bankrupt. We are in the process of destroying an entire society. It is as simple and terrifying as that . . . Five thousand children are dying every month . . . I don't want to administer a programme that results in figures like these."

When I first met Halliday, I was struck by the care with which he chose uncompromising words. "I had been instructed," he said, "to implement a policy that satisfies the definition of genocide: a deliberate policy that has effectively killed well over a million individuals, children and adults. We all know that the regime, Saddam Hussein, is not paying the price for economic sanctions; on the contrary, he has been strengthened by them. It is the little people who are losing their children or their parents for lack of untreated water. What is clear is that the Security Council is now out of control, for its actions here undermine its own Charter, and the Declaration of Human Rights and the Geneva Convention. History will slaughter those responsible."

Inside the UN, Halliday broke a long collective silence. Then on February 13 this year, Hans von Sponeck, who had succeeded him as humanitarian co-ordinator in Iraq, resigned. "How long," he asked, "should the civilian population of Iraq be exposed to such punishment for something they have never done?" Two days later, Jutta Burghardt, head of the World Food Programme in Iraq, resigned, saying privately she, too, could not tolerate what was being done to the Iraqi people. Another resignation is expected.

When I met von Sponeck in Baghdad last October, the anger building behind his measured, self-effacing exterior was evident. Like Halliday before him, his job was to administer the Oil for Food Programme, which since 1996 has allowed Iraq to sell a fraction of its oil for money that goes straight to the Security Council. Almost a third pays the UN's "expenses", reparations to Kuwait and compensation claims. Iraq then tenders on the international market for food and medical supplies and other humanitarian supplies. Every contract must be approved by the Sanctions Committee in New York. "What it comes down to," he said, "is that we can spend only $180 per person over six months. It is a pitiful picture. Whatever the arguments about Iraq, they should not be conducted on the backs of the civilian population."

Denis Halliday and I travelled to Iraq together. It was his first trip back. Washington and London make much of the influence of Iraqi propaganda when their own, unchallenged, is by far the most potent. With this in mind, I wanted an independent assessment from some of the 550 UN people, who are Iraq's lifeline. Among them, Halliday and von Sponeck are heroes. I have reported the UN at work in many countries; I have never known such dissent and anger, directed at the manipulation of the Security Council, and the corruption of what some of them still refer to as the UN "ideal".......

Madeleine Albright has said: "We do not agree that if Iraq complies with its obligations concerning weapons of mass destruction, sanctions should be lifted."........

https://www.theguardian.com/theguard...kend7.weekend9......
Reply

fromelsewhere
05-31-2017, 02:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Why would anyone admit guilt by way of apology when they are not guilty?
Everyone has categorically said on this forum that there is absolutely NO need to apologize (or feel guilty) for a crime that you have not been involved in. That being said, we need to find ways to stop the hatred that is being preached and promoted by terrorist organizations because there are clearly some Muslims who are being influenced by it. I believe that the solution lies in education. We need to stop systematically vilifying the West (which everyone on here is good at doing) and conversely systematically minimizing/white-washing the conflicts within the Ummah. We need to take a critical look at our society as a whole, and specifically look into what the Muslim community can do to better improve people's education on Islam.
Reply

Scimitar
05-31-2017, 02:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Everyone has categorically said on this forum that there is absolutely NO need to apologize (or feel guilty) for a crime that you have not been involved in. That being said, we need to find ways to stop the hatred that is being preached and promoted by terrorist organizations because there are clearly some Muslims who are being influenced by it. I believe that the solution lies in education. We need to stop systematically vilifying the West (which everyone on here is good at doing) and conversely systematically minimizing/white-washing the conflicts within the Ummah. We need to take a critical look at our society as a whole, and specifically look into what the Muslim community can do to better improve people's education on Islam.
I can half agree with you,

what I do not agree with is your contradiction:

you said to stop vilifying the west then in the same breath - you said - we need to take a critical look at our society - guess what? that's the same thing.

if I'm to critique the western society - then brother - it will be vilified!

Scimi
Reply

Simple_Person
05-31-2017, 07:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Everyone has categorically said on this forum that there is absolutely NO need to apologize (or feel guilty) for a crime that you have not been involved in. That being said, we need to find ways to stop the hatred that is being preached and promoted by terrorist organizations because there are clearly some Muslims who are being influenced by it. I believe that the solution lies in education. We need to stop systematically vilifying the West (which everyone on here is good at doing) and conversely systematically minimizing/white-washing the conflicts within the Ummah. We need to take a critical look at our society as a whole, and specifically look into what the Muslim community can do to better improve people's education on Islam.
Dude, i am gonna repeat it again. Who started all of this so to say..the cycle of hatred? Where does one find the crack in the cycle to put education in it, so the cycle breaks? All you say is that we need to educate this and we need to educate that. My conclusion is the crack in this cycle is corrupt western politicians AND i have given you WHY i have come to that conclusion.

Yet, you just repeat and repeat like how mass media does by spreading propaganda..WITHOUT a backing of their story.

So do tell me EVEN IF lets say we educate Muslims. Let's say for the sake of argument ALL the Muslims on the planet have been educated. However the corrupt western politicians keep supporting the dictators in the Middle East..and they keep oppressing Muslims and invasion by western powers keeps on going..AND YES ..no terrorist attacks in the west.

Now is my question to you, what is your solution to this? Hatred of the west is a reaction/outcome of something that has happened previous. I myself have not hatred against the west, because innocent western sheeple are also victims of propaganda, however Muslims are being killed and YOU are defending those monsters that are responsible for it (corrupt western politicians). I want you to go outside and put ALL your money in to putting Blair and Bush behind bars. When you have achieved that, that is the moment i start listening to you. Yet you branding yourself as the messenger who comes in peace. That is just hypocrisy at the top.
Reply

DunyaStory
05-31-2017, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Dude, i am gonna repeat it again. Who started all of this so to say..the cycle of hatred? Where does one find the crack in the cycle to put education in it, so the cycle breaks? All you say is that we need to educate this and we need to educate that. My conclusion is the crack in this cycle is corrupt western politicians AND i have given you WHY i have come to that conclusion.

Yet, you just repeat and repeat like how mass media does by spreading propaganda..WITHOUT a backing of their story.

So do tell me EVEN IF lets say we educate Muslims. Let's say for the sake of argument ALL the Muslims on the planet have been educated. However the corrupt western politicians keep supporting the dictators in the Middle East..and they keep oppressing Muslims and invasion by western powers keeps on going..AND YES ..no terrorist attacks in the west.

Now is my question to you, what is your solution to this? Hatred of the west is a reaction/outcome of something that has happened previous. I myself have not hatred against the west, because innocent western sheeple are also victims of propaganda, however Muslims are being killed and YOU are defending those monsters that are responsible for it (corrupt western politicians). I want you to go outside and put ALL your money in to putting Blair and Bush behind bars. When you have achieved that, that is the moment i start listening to you. Yet you branding yourself as the messenger who comes in peace. That is just hypocrisy at the top.
I agree with him, but you make a good point aswell brother.
My perspective is that we should do whatever is efficient. You are on point when you say how that cycle of hatred started from western polititans, but we cannot do anything about them.
''A small person'' has limited options of acting, and in my opinion we have an option to talk with others , spread the truth and inshallah hope for best from Allah.
Just my opinion...
Reply

Abz2000
05-31-2017, 05:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
I agree with him, but you make a good point aswell brother.
My perspective is that we should do whatever is efficient. You are on point when you say how that cycle of hatred started from western polititans, but we cannot do anything about them.
''A small person'' has limited options of acting, and in my opinion we have an option to talk with others , spread the truth and inshallah hope for best from Allah.
Just my opinion...
That was usually the method of the Prophets pbut until they gained a strong enough following with help from Allah to enforce the laws of Allah - happened with Musa at egypt until the migration, happened with Muhammad pbuh until the migration - and throughout the life of Jesus under roman occupation.
If I am to blame a person for bombing britain and her allies almost every day for 25 years within Allah's limits of upto equal retaliation - then i must lay more blame upon the british government and her allies , since not a day has gone by that the british government and allies - with backing of it's people (as claimed by the people) hasn't bombed or killed the Muslims of iraq without just cause since around 1992 up until today.
It is the prescription of Allah to those who have been wronged - that Allah allows them to retaliate up to a maximum of the injury received.

Britain and the United States are still bombing Iraq almost every day: it is the longest Anglo-American bombing campaign since the second world war, yet, with honourable exceptions, very little appears about it in the British media. Conducted under the cover of "no fly zones", which have no basis in international law, the aircraft, according to Tony Blair, are "performing vital humanitarian tasks". The ministry of defence in London has a line about "taking robust action to protect pilots" from Iraqi attacks - yet an internal UN Security Sector report says that, in one five-month period, 41 per cent of the victims were civilians in civilian targets: villages, fishing jetties, farmland and vast, treeless valleys where sheep graze. A shepherd, his father, his four children and his sheep were killed by a British or American aircraft, which made two passes at them. I stood in the cemetery where the children are buried and their mother shouted, "I want to speak to the pilot who did this."

This is a war against the children of Iraq on two fronts: bombing, which in the last year cost the British taxpayer £60 million. And the most ruthless embargo in modern history. According to Unicef, the United Nations Children's Fund, the death rate of children under five is more than 4,000 a month - that is 4,000 more than would have died before sanctions. That is half a million children dead in eight years. If this statistic is difficult to grasp, consider, on the day you read this, up to 200 Iraqi children may die needlessly.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguard...kend7.weekend9

Operation Shader
In December 2016, it was reported that the Royal Air Force is operating at its most intense for 25 years in a single theatre of operation which far outstripped the UK involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan – RAF jets have dropped 11 times more bombs (1,276 strikes) on Syria and Iraq in the preceding 12 months than they had in the busiest year of action in Afghanistan a decade previously (119).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Shader
Anyway, when the british government claim that isis did it - it could be the sas....

[Quote]
SAS dress as ISIS fighters in undercover war on jihadis
BRITISH Special Forces are mounting hit and run raids against Islamic State deep inside eastern Syria dressed as insurgent fighters, the Sunday Express can reveal.

The unorthodox tactic, which is seeing SAS units dressed in black and flying ISIS flags, has been likened to the methods used by the Long Range Desert Group against Rommel's forces during the Second World War.

More than 120 members belonging to the elite regiment are currently in the war-torn country on operation Shader, tasked with destroying IS equipment and munitions which insurgents constantly move to avoid Coalition air strikes.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/595...ighter-Jihadis

Was the british government not arming the mujahideen in order to cause chaos in Syria? It is truly evident that the british government along with it's allies is a criminal organisation run by rothschild and co. And is responsible for all the bloodshed we see and don't see.
Reply

Simple_Person
05-31-2017, 06:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DunyaStory
I agree with him, but you make a good point aswell brother.
My perspective is that we should do whatever is efficient. You are on point when you say how that cycle of hatred started from western polititans, but we cannot do anything about them.
''A small person'' has limited options of acting, and in my opinion we have an option to talk with others , spread the truth and inshallah hope for best from Allah.
Just my opinion...
Brother, i have been brief with the conclusion i gave, in another topic i gave a more detailed version of this conclusion.

Let me expand it a bit more, so you can see what i mean.

Education is key for Muslims, however who is preventing Muslims to be educated? We know it is the dictators that are preventing the people they rule to be educated. Educated people are people who THINK and who PONDER and who pursue knowledge and ideas. When the current idea of society is false or something is wrong with it, these educated people start gathering people to start change...in other words..revolutions. Revolutions are NOT good, as revolutions tend to follow a path other than the one that the dictator wants you to follow. When rulers in those countries are NOT in the pocket of corrupt western politicians, that means no money to be made. Just look at Trump just recently he went to Saudi Arabia and did i believe a $110 BILLION DOLLAR military deal that expands in the coming 10 years.

The Muslims (we) that are living in the west and have educated ourselves, we see what is wrong. We do justice by Islam, but also justice by the ignorant people (western people). We try to educate them of what is going on and what Islam is about and show them other perspectives. There are some percentage that is willing to learn and to listen, while there is a large part that does not want to listen. When you suddenly bring out the REALITY CHECKS, they become all emotional. What am i talking about? The western world by VERY VERY VERY large portion have become like babies. VERY INCAPABLE to survive on their own experience and knowledge with basic things. They are enjoying all the luxurious that are there because of exploitation. When you ask them if they are willing to stand up against their governments but on the other hand will be losing some of the luxuries you are enjoying..many off course will object.

They have become so blind that they do not care what is happening to the rest of the world. It is rather a blessing for many POOR people on this world that they have not been relying on too many luxurious things (tap water, electricity, car, etc.) If just 1 thing might happen, MANY..MANY people here in the west will go savage and/or die. When just randomly ask somebody can you cope out with 1 day without food and water..they GENUINELY say absolutely not.

As long as people in the west and i am talking about majority of them, do not have to lose any luxuries they will not stand up against injustice what is happening in the world. We think about them, but we cannot stop there, we also think about the injustice that is happening to other people around the globe.

It all starts with corrupt western politicians.
Reply

Abz2000
05-31-2017, 07:04 PM
^ do you mean that just revolution is not good - or is it just a reminder of the false thinking of tyrants? Since revelation always sparked revolution (from revolve) to the guidance of Allah.

$110,000,000,000 of weapons in ten years to one government - and that's to be paid for with the resources of the Saudi people who are already struggling to keep up with the bills etc, and what does trump expect people to do with the weapons other than use them to kill more people?
Then when you count the amount given to Israel - or sold - then forgiven when the attention dies down, and to Egypt, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Iraq, Jordan, Morocco, Libya regime, and take into account that the u.s.a and Russian weapons industry only plan to expand in future - with Russia arming itself and selling to anyone who's not a direct American customer - I think you can see how sick the planners behind these wars are. Also note that the u.s.a government and it's allies never withdraw from a conflict unless they grab hold of another one or unless they are able to keep the flames of war alight via "diplomacy" and "assistance".




وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ يَدُ اللّهِ مَغْلُولَةٌ غُلَّتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَلُعِنُواْ بِمَا قَالُواْ بَلْ يَدَاهُ مَبْسُوطَتَانِ يُنفِقُ كَيْفَ يَشَاء وَلَيَزِيدَنَّ كَثِيراً مِّنْهُم مَّا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ طُغْيَانًا وَكُفْرًا وَأَلْقَيْنَا بَيْنَهُمُ الْعَدَاوَةَ وَالْبَغْضَاء إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ كُلَّمَا أَوْقَدُواْ نَارًا لِّلْحَرْبِ أَطْفَأَهَا اللّهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الأَرْضِ فَسَادًا وَاللّهُ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُفْسِدِينَ {64
005:064 Khan
:
The Jews say: "Allah's Hand is tied up (i.e. He does not give and spend of His Bounty)." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for what they uttered.
Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends (of His Bounty) as He wills.
Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from Allah increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection.
Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah extinguished it; and they (ever) strive to make mischief on earth. And Allah does not like the Mufsidun (mischief-makers).

Bear in mind that Orwell wrote 1984 and animal farm after the tehran conference . His map of the world is telling, search: Orwell map - and Orwell tehran conference.

Orwell map







The Tehran Conference was a strategy meeting of Joseph Stalin, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Winston Churchill from 28 November to 1 December 1943, after the Anglo-Soviet Invasion of Iran. It was held in the Soviet Union's embassy in Tehran, Iran.

.....The U.S. and Great Britain wanted to secure the cooperation of the Soviet Union in defeating Germany. Stalin agreed, but at a price: the U.S. and Britain would accept Soviet domination of eastern Europe, support the Yugoslav Partisans, and agree to a westward shift of the border between Poland and the Soviet Union.

Stalin pressed for a revision of Poland’s eastern border with the Soviet Union to match the line set by British Foreign Secretary Lord Curzon in 1920. In order to compensate Poland for the resulting loss of territory, the three leaders agreed to move the German-Polish border to the Oder and Neisse rivers. This decision was not formally ratified, however, until the Potsdam Conference of 1945.[5]

The leaders then turned to the conditions under which the Western Allies would open a new front by invading northern France (Operation Overlord), as Stalin had pressed them to do since 1941. Up to this point Churchill had advocated the expansion of joint operations of British, American, and Commonwealth forces in the Mediterranean, as Overlord in 1943 was physically impossible due to a lack of shipping, which left the Mediterranean and Italy as viable goals for 1943. It was agreed Overlord would occur by May 1944; Stalin agreed to support it by launching a concurrent major offensive on Germany's eastern front to divert German forces from northern France.[6]

Iran and Turkey were discussed in detail. Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin all agreed to support Iran's government, as addressed in the following declaration:

The Three Governments realize that the war has caused special economic difficulties (awwwww how sweet of them) for Iran, and they all agreed that they will continue to make available to the Government of Iran such economic assistance as may be possible, having regard to the heavy demands made upon them by their world-wide military operations, and to the world-wide shortage of transport, raw materials, and supplies for civilian consumption.[7]

In addition, the Soviet Union was required to pledge support to Turkey if that country entered the war. Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin agreed that it would also be most desirable if Turkey entered on the Allies' side before the year was out.

Despite accepting the above arrangements, Stalin dominated the conference. He used the prestige of the Soviet victory at the Battle of Kursk to get his way. Roosevelt attempted to cope with Stalin's onslaught of demands, but was able to do little except appease Stalin. Churchill argued for the invasion of Italy in 1943, then Overlord in 1944, on the basis that Overlord was physically impossible in 1943 due to lack of shipping and it would be unthinkable to do anything major until it could be launched.[8]

Churchill proposed to Stalin a moving westwards of Poland, which Stalin accepted, which gave the Poles industrialized German land to the west and gave up marshlands to the east, while providing a territorial buffer to the Soviet Union against invasion.

Dinner meeting
Before the Tripartite Dinner Meeting of 29 November 1943 at the Conference, Churchill presented Stalin with a specially commissioned ceremonial sword (the "Sword of Stalingrad", made in Sheffield), as a gift from King George VI to the citizens of Stalingrad and the Soviet people, commemorating the Soviet victory at Stalingrad. When Stalin received the sheathed sword, he took it with both hands and kissed the scabbard. (He then handed it to Marshal Kliment Voroshilov, who mishandled it, causing the sword to fall to the ground.)[9]

Without American production the United Nations could never have won the war.
— Joseph Stalin, during the dinner at the Tehran Conference.[10]

Stalin proposed executing 50,000–100,000 German officers so that Germany could not plan another war. Roosevelt, believing Stalin was not serious, joked that "maybe 49,000 would be enough". Churchill, however, was outraged and denounced "the cold blooded execution of soldiers who fought for their country". He said that only war criminals should be put on trial in accordance with the Moscow Document, which he himself had written. He stormed out of the room, but was brought back in by Stalin who said he was joking. Churchill was glad Stalin had relented, but thought Stalin was testing the waters.[11]
— 
Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehran_Conference

[/quote]

Obviously Churchill didn't mention that Britain had been openly and secretly courting Germany all along and that the British royal family ties with national officials was as thick as blood - many of the Duke of Edinburgh relatives were SS officers and such - so they would have "nun of it" as Churchill would probably say.

---------


The Messenger of God is reported to have said: "A time will come when the nations (of the world) will surround you from every side, just as diners gather around the main dish.
Somebody asked, 'Oh Messenger of Allah, will it be on account of our scarcity at that time?'
He said, 'No, but you will be scum, like the scum of flood water. Feebleness (wahn) will be in your hearts, and fear will be removed from the hearts of your enemies, on account of your love for the world, and your abhorrence of death.'" [Ahmad, Abu Dawud]

If you look at the state of Muslim lands today, this hadith appears to apply directly to us. The Muslim population of the world is huge, yet our lives or sensitivities do not count for much. It is other nations that are respected, revered or feared. This hadith tells us that being too in love with the things of this world and subsequently hating death, puts us in a position whereby our principles are compromised, and we no longer remain a force to be reckoned with.

http://dailyhadith.adaptivesolutions.../Like-Scum.htm

http://theconversation.com/2017-isnt...imagined-71971

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...-george-orwell
Reply

Simple_Person
05-31-2017, 08:05 PM
@Abz2000 , no revolutions are NOT good for dictators, because people wake up and see what is going on. There are KNOWN and visible dictatorships and there are invisible dictatorships. These so called invisible dictatorships are known under the name "democracy". The visible dictatorships keep their people visibly oppressed, the invisible dictatorships keep their people a sleep and make them worry about things that are less to not worth paying attention to instead of focusing on the important things. Tv shows like pop-idols and such are ways to keep people busy and asleep of what they are doing.

There are however people who are awake, but those people are often being branded as conspiracy theorists and blocked by police and such.

Jazakallahu khairan, i will look up those things.
Reply

Abz2000
05-31-2017, 08:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
@Abz2000 , no revolutions are NOT good for dictators, because people wake up and see what is going on. There are KNOWN and visible dictatorships and there are invisible dictatorships. These so called invisible dictatorships are known under the name "democracy". The visible dictatorships keep their people visibly oppressed, the invisible dictatorships keep their people a sleep and make them worry about things that are less to not worth paying attention to instead of focusing on the important things. Tv shows like pop-idols and such are ways to keep people busy and asleep of what they are doing.


There are however people who are awake, but those people are often being branded as conspiracy theorists and blocked by police and such.

Jazakallahu khairan, i will look up those things.
Are just revolutions which return to the guidance of Allah good? Or will you only speak on behalf of tyrants?
Please bear in mind that I have a duty to clarify when I see a seemingly faulty premise.
Reply

Abz2000
05-31-2017, 08:57 PM
Lol no reply as of yet so I'll have to clarify myself based on what is just:

Revolutions which prophets bring and which the righteous bring in order to return people from chaos and destruction - to the guidance of Allah are good and just.

For those who believe otherwise:

يُرِيدُونَ لِيُطْفِؤُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَاللَّهُ مُتِمُّ نُورِهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ {8
061:008 Khan
:
They intend to put out the Light of Allah (i.e. the religion of Islam, this Qur'an, and Prophet Muhammad SAW) with their mouths. But Allah will complete His Light even though the disbelievers hate (it).

هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ {33
009:033
:
It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the real deen (way of life) (Islam), to make it prevail over all deens even though the Mushrikun (those who associate partners or opponents with God, polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).


هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَكَفَى بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدًا {28
048:028
:
He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the real deen (way of life) (Islam), that He may make it (Islam) prevail over all deens. And All-Sufficient is Allah as a Witness.
Reply

fromelsewhere
05-31-2017, 11:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I can half agree with you,

what I do not agree with is your contradiction:

you said to stop vilifying the west then in the same breath - you said - we need to take a critical look at our society - guess what? that's the same thing.

if I'm to critique the western society - then brother - it will be vilified!

Scimi
Taking a critical look at both Western society and Middle Eastern society does not mean vilifying either and coming up with conspiracy theories to try and explain what is going on. Both societies have problems, but we shouldn't be too severe and accuse kuffars for all the woes of the Islamic world... this seems to be the theme here. No matter what bad things a Muslim does, everyone is quick on this message board to find a way to blame it on the West. Nobody wants to discuss the problems in the Ummah, though. How come did this terrorist guy think that what he was doing was right? (I assume he thought he was doing a good thing because it seems like he had become "religious" in the last little while). How did his perspective become so twisted?
Reply

Scimitar
05-31-2017, 11:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Taking a critical look at both Western society and Middle Eastern society does not mean vilifying either and coming up with conspiracy theories to try and explain what is going on. Both societies have problems, but we shouldn't be too severe and accuse kuffars for all the woes of the Islamic world... this seems to be the theme here. No matter what bad things a Muslim does, everyone is quick on this message board to find a way to blame it on the West. Nobody wants to discuss the problems in the Ummah, though. How come did this terrorist guy think that what he was doing was right? (I assume he thought he was doing a good thing because it seems like he had become "religious" in the last little while). How did his perspective become so twisted?
Are you serious?

Brother - go learn secular history then try saying that again, coz you just pulverized your intellectual faculties of reason and logic. Do the research - there are conspiracy theories - yes, and there are conspiracy FACTS too - which you probably cannot differentiate between judging by what you just wrote lol

Scimi
Reply

Zafran
05-31-2017, 11:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
How come did this terrorist guy think that what he was doing was right?
The same way Andres Brevik or tony Blair thought what they were doing was right. However nobody says we need to look at western society, or reform the country.

Recently in the US a man killed two men who were defending a Muslim women from being harassed. If this guy was a muslim the whole world would be in a standstill.

There was terroist attack today in Afghanistan that killed 84 people - did the effiel Tower light up with the afghan flag - what about the Germans - what about the Burj.
Reply

fromelsewhere
05-31-2017, 11:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
So do tell me EVEN IF lets say we educate Muslims. Let's say for the sake of argument ALL the Muslims on the planet have been educated. However the corrupt western politicians keep supporting the dictators in the Middle East..and they keep oppressing Muslims and invasion by western powers keeps on going..AND YES ..no terrorist attacks in the west.
Western powers are against Bashar al-Assad in Syria, but they are wary of intervening too much in Syria due to their past blunders in the region. So they focus on ISIS: a terrorist group that is everyone's enemy. Personally, I think that the less the West intervenes in the Middle East, the better. Western powers are very supportive of Saudi Arabia's Royal family due to money and oil ties. It is very hypocritical of their part, but I must say that although you can criticize Saudi's royal family on many regards, they are ok - not evil dictators. If they were to be replaced by force by some other 'leaders', things would likely become worse in the region for a long time before they became better. Elsewhere, it depends. The matter of fact is that countries in the Middle East have usually had dictators (sultans, shahs, religious leaders, and so on) because they are not fond of democracy and a lot of countries in the ME have big social divides on religion/ethnicity. It is not the Western power's doing. The West has naively (and dumbly) brought down Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi thinking that the countries under the leadership of these dictators would suddenly improve with these leaders gone, but that has not been the case at all... to the contrary! You now have sectarian fighting and fighting amongst various clans, and terrorist groups like ISIS have emerged.

The fault lies in both the West for intervening clumsily and destabilizing many countries, and the Middle East for not being able to make peace through negotiations.

At the end of the day, though, this does NOT justify in the least the actions of the terrorist who blew himself up in a crowd of kids. You don't "right" a perceived wrong by committing more wrongs.
Reply

fromelsewhere
05-31-2017, 11:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
There was terroist attack today in Afghanistan that killed 84 people - did the effiel Tower light up with the afghan flag - what about the Germans - what about the Burj.
It is very sad that the story of the terrorist attack in Afghanistan has barely been mentioned in the Western media. Unfortunately, it has become so common in some regions to have terrorist attacks that it barely makes the news anymore. That being said, news in Western countries have always been more focused on the West. People tend to worry more about things that happen close to home... it is somewhat selfish. Ideally, terrorist attacks should not be considered the norm anywhere, and the Eiffel Tower should also light up for Afghanistan.
Reply

Zafran
05-31-2017, 11:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
although you can criticize Saudi's royal family on many regards, they are ok - not evil dictators
I'm sure you know what the Saudis are doing in Yemen. Just because they are not killing people in Europe doesnt make them good guys - furthermore doesn't justify why any outside power should support them unless for there own gain (oil) which is also the reason why most countries want Assad out (or in if your Russia and Iran) its because of oil. Nobodies getting involved in Manmyer or any other country that doesn't have resources to exploit. but any place that has oil somebody loves intervening - the same applies to Libya.
Reply

fromelsewhere
05-31-2017, 11:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
I'm sure you know what the Saudis are doing in Yemen. Just because they are not killing people in Europe doesnt make them good guys - furthermore doesn't justify why any outside power should support them unless for there own gain (oil) which is also the reason why most countries want Assad out (or in if your Russia and Iran) its because of oil. Nobodies getting involved in Manmyer or any other country that doesn't have resources to exploit. but any place that has oil somebody loves intervening - the same applies to Libya.
I am opposed to Saudi's intervention in Yemen, and I hate seeing an arms deal of $300 billion between the US and Saudi Arabia. I understand why Saudi Arabia felt justified to intervene in Yemen, though. They are wary of seeing another country that was ruled by Sunnis being toppled and led by Shias. It is a sectarian war just like in Iraq (though Iraq is ~60-65% Shia). I don't think the West is against al-Assad for the oil, though... with Saudi Arabia and Russia alone, the West has more than enough oil. They don't need Libya's oil or Syria's oil. US' own oil production has been increasing as the technology for fracking has been improving.
Reply

Zafran
06-01-2017, 12:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
I am opposed to Saudi's intervention in Yemen, and I hate seeing an arms deal of $300 billion between the US and Saudi Arabia. I understand why Saudi Arabia felt justified to intervene in Yemen, though. They are wary of seeing another country that was ruled by Sunnis being toppled and led by Shias. It is a sectarian war just like in Iraq. I don't think the West is against al-Assad for the oil, though... with Saudi Arabia and Russia alone, the West has more than enough oil. They don't need Libya's and Syria's oil. US' own oil production has been increasing as the technology for fracking has been improving.
No the west isnt scared that it will run out of oil - its scared that if it doesn't interfere then other powers like Russia will gain an upper hand in the region. The whole point they dont like Russia and Iran is because they dont bow down to western hegemony - Egypt and Saudis or Kuwait or the UAE do because they need to keep there monarchies and military rule funded. Its mutual benefit and not some moral act.

You also think that the Saudis and the Iranian wars can be reduced to just sectarian wars. However it seems geopolitical control seems to be a much more important goal for these countries.
Reply

fromelsewhere
06-01-2017, 12:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
No the west isnt scared that it will run out of oil - its scared that if it doesn't interfere then other powers like Russia will gain an upper hand in the region. The whole point they dont like Russia and Iran is because they dont bow down to western hegemony - Egypt and Saudis or Kuwait or the UAE do because they need to keep there monarchies and military rule funded. Its mutual benefit and not some moral act.

You also think that the Saudis and the Iranian wars can be reduced to just sectarian wars. However it seems geopolitical control seems to be a much more important goal for these countries.
Yes, there is definitely a pragmatic alliance system that is going on that is not "moral" but due to convenience. The West does tend to think that it has the moral high-grounds, though, and the anti-Russia sentiment in the media has been running quite high lately.

There is definitely a geopolitical struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran to gain the upper hand on the region, but I do think that the reason behind SA and Iran being so opposed to one another in the first place is chiefly due to differences in faith. If Iranians were Sunni (or conversely, if Saudis were Shia), I think that the two countries would get along much better.
Reply

Zafran
06-01-2017, 12:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Yes, there is definitely a pragmatic alliance system that is going on that is not "moral" but due to convenience. The West does tend to think that it has the moral high-grounds, though, and the anti-Russia sentiment in the media has been running quite high lately.

There is definitely a geopolitical struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran to gain the upper hand on the region, but I do think that the reason behind SA and Iran being so opposed to one another in the first place is chiefly due to differences in faith. If Iranians were Sunni (or conversely, if Saudis were Shia), I think that the two countries would get along much better.
Every country in the world believes it has higher moral ground be it the Russians, the Iranians or the Saudis. They clearly believe that they are right and other side is wrong - even if they have morally dubious positions. this goes for the west and the rest.

No I think that the saudis are against the Iranians and vice versa is not due to religion a prime motivator. I believe its more to do with geopolitics and which power is willing to back them. Religious differences doesn't explain why Iran has better relations with Pakistan and Afghanistan (mostly sunni). They dont have much of a problem with any Muslim country except for the Saudis and there allies.

Turkey and Israel and how they view Iran also shows that religion isnt a prime motivator.
Reply

Karl
06-01-2017, 12:52 AM
I suppose Islam is a religion of peace unlike the worship of Mars or Odin. But it is not pacifist, so it would really suit the imperialist Zionist warmongers for Islam to be pacifist, so they could bomb and slaughter Muslims with no retaliation in any form at all. Maybe that is the "win the hearts and minds" propaganda program. It worked after they nuked Japan.
What about the "troubles" in Northern Island. Are Roman Catholics "terrorists" too?
Reply

fromelsewhere
06-01-2017, 12:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Every country in the world believes it has higher moral ground be it the Russians, the Iranians or the Saudis. They clearly believe that they are right and other side is wrong - even if they have morally dubious positions. this goes for the west and the rest.

No I think that the saudis are against the Iranians and vice versa is not due to religion a prime motivator. I believe its more to do with geopolitics and which power is willing to back them. Religious differences doesn't explain why Iran has better relations with Pakistan and Afghanistan (mostly sunni). They dont have much of a problem with any Muslim country except for the Saudis and there allies.

Turkey and Israel and how they view Iran also shows that religion isnt a prime motivator.
Iran shares borders with both Afghanistan and Pakistan and Farsi is very close to Pashto and Dari (Afghanistan's official languages, and many Pakistanis speak Pashto). Also, Iranians, Afghans, and Pakistanis are not Arabs; they are ethnically-speaking closer to Iranians. So while it's true that Afghans and Pakistans are Sunni in majority, they share other things in common with Iran, so they are less anti-Iran than Saudi Arabia and its allies. As for Turkey, they are also not Arabs, but if there was to be a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia (may that never happen), I am sure that they would side with Saudi Arabia. As for Israel, Iran has had relatively good ties with it prior to the 1979 Revolution. After that, things went down into the pits, and I suggest the reason was that having Israel and the US as enemies was convenient for the Khomeini regime, as they were hoping to find common ground with the rest of the Muslim world by having an enemy in common, and it helped with their propaganda efforts and in justifying the existence of the regime.

So, of course, I am simplifying by saying that the Saudi Arabia-Iranian conflict is primarily religious, but I do think that if there wasn't a religious difference, they wouldn't be constantly fighting one another.
Reply

fromelsewhere
06-01-2017, 01:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
What about the "troubles" in Northern Island. Are Roman Catholics "terrorists" too?
The IRA is definitely considered to be a terrorist organization.
Reply

Simple_Person
06-01-2017, 08:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Are just revolutions which return to the guidance of Allah good? Or will you only speak on behalf of tyrants?
Please bear in mind that I have a duty to clarify when I see a seemingly faulty premise.
How can something be called a revolution, when it is NOT on the haq? I mean think about it. We say we are Muslims, the Muslims among us that have done their research to compare the so called "free democratic western 'revolution' " compared to the way Allah has said how the rule of the world should be practiced in the sense of justice, of way of life etc. When i talk about revolutions in the direction of TRUE Islam, i am talking about countries with majority Muslims. The so called "free democratic west" is as democratic as it can be right now i would suggest.

What are my observations on that?

- We see Brexit, the "losers" want STILL prevent Brexit from happening.
- Trump won in democratic rules right..?? Yet the opposition/sore losers are still attacking Trump and/or having demonstrations against him. Many Trump voters also right now are regretting and realizing that this so called democratic way of choosing a leader is useless as you will just get another puppet.
- Erdogan just recently won by a mere 2% with the presidential referendum, this means that about 48% is not with Erdogan.
- Macron and other parties joined forces to beat Le Pen. In other words if there was not joining forces, most probably Le Pen would have won. A lot of propaganda/brain programming went out to vote for Macron. Also with him he won about 64% ..that is just way to low. That means 36% of people is not happy with him.

In other words based on how to get the right leader in democratic language, is anarchy/chaos. That is not a peaceful and satisfied society..in other words fail for the so called "free democratic west".

Now we go to so called "law".

In "free western democratic world", when somebody kills my child and me an my wife see that he REALLY REALLY REALLY regrets it and we say we forgive you. Yet the state still punishes him. In the so called "free democratic west" when people go to jail and when they get out they are totally different people. They are even LESS able to adapt to society than when they went in. Where is the mercy in that?

When a guy rapes a woman he gets certain sentence. When we Muslims say such a person deserves the death penalty, so people stand up and say how "barbaric", when we say what if that woman was your "mother/sister/daughter/wife"? They often would reply "i would kill him!!". In Islam we do not have double standards, the woman at the end of the street has just amount of value as my own mother when talking about such things. We do not have double standards.

Islamic law does not change. Just look at things now. First they SHOUT out about how "free" and "democratic" we are, but try to force religious people to bend for them and agree to certain rules. In the past it was if you would not agree to homosexuality..that is fine as long as you do not harm them by any means. Religious people from every religion could live with that. However now a days at schools it is thought to children that homosexuality is "normal" and if you would object to that, you will be fined for it. What happened to the so called "free speech?" "own opinion"?.

Islam has certain boundaries and doesn't matter if we life own 1000 years still those same boundaries are kept. People have free speech with certain boundaries of not insulting. Saying God does not exist, you are free to that, but bring your evidence. Just saying it without wanting to debate/discuss with your evidence shows your dishonesty and your intention to just create anarchy in society. Which is NOT oke and such people should be prevented to do so as they are not really wanting to search the truth, but rather just create destruction in society.

So no brother revolution to go back to the right path of Allah and not that of the so called "free democratic west". As the "free democratic west" is destroying itself from within.

EDIT: Brother you cannot expect me to reply within minutes/hours. Give people time :).
Reply

Simple_Person
06-01-2017, 08:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Western powers are against Bashar al-Assad in Syria, but they are wary of intervening too much in Syria due to their past blunders in the region. So they focus on ISIS: a terrorist group that is everyone's enemy. Personally, I think that the less the West intervenes in the Middle East, the better. Western powers are very supportive of Saudi Arabia's Royal family due to money and oil ties. It is very hypocritical of their part, but I must say that although you can criticize Saudi's royal family on many regards, they are ok - not evil dictators. If they were to be replaced by force by some other 'leaders', things would likely become worse in the region for a long time before they became better. Elsewhere, it depends. The matter of fact is that countries in the Middle East have usually had dictators (sultans, shahs, religious leaders, and so on) because they are not fond of democracy and a lot of countries in the ME have big social divides on religion/ethnicity. It is not the Western power's doing. The West has naively (and dumbly) brought down Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi thinking that the countries under the leadership of these dictators would suddenly improve with these leaders gone, but that has not been the case at all... to the contrary! You now have sectarian fighting and fighting amongst various clans, and terrorist groups like ISIS have emerged.

The fault lies in both the West for intervening clumsily and destabilizing many countries, and the Middle East for not being able to make peace through negotiations.

At the end of the day, though, this does NOT justify in the least the actions of the terrorist who blew himself up in a crowd of kids. You don't "right" a perceived wrong by committing more wrongs.
Sorry to say this, but your analytical skill on politics is VERY VERY poor. What you are saying is what the tv is saying. Not what reality is. Based on YOUR OPINION Saudi is a "dictatorship" but they are "good", not based on facts. You see those interventions as if they were just "mistakes". Such people do NOT make mistakes. A mistake is something that you genuinely did not know, however there are THINK TANKS that create certain plans how to X and what the outcomes might be of X. How to do Y and what the possible outcomes might be of Y.

That is why i believe i have earlier in another topic referred you to this lecture. When you hear those things, i mean i would not even come up with such detailed way of doing things. This goes to the psychological level of destroying something. When somebody takes psychology in to it, that means SERIOUS business. My advice still for you, stop being so .."maybe this and maybe that". These people are not like you and me. While many of us might have principles, they do not. Yesterday they were enemies with Al-Qaeda, today they are giving them weapons. They look at their chances of interests.

IF political interest on X = 10% less by supporting group Y, HOWEVER political interest on Z = 63% by supporting group Y, then it is better to support them. This is how they think. With political interest on X being loss of life for example. They do not care about such things. Look at second video, that is why i posted those videos so that you may ponder for a moment.



Reply

Simple_Person
06-01-2017, 08:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
I am opposed to Saudi's intervention in Yemen, and I hate seeing an arms deal of $300 billion between the US and Saudi Arabia. I understand why Saudi Arabia felt justified to intervene in Yemen, though. They are wary of seeing another country that was ruled by Sunnis being toppled and led by Shias. It is a sectarian war just like in Iraq (though Iraq is ~60-65% Shia). I don't think the West is against al-Assad for the oil, though... with Saudi Arabia and Russia alone, the West has more than enough oil. They don't need Libya's oil or Syria's oil. US' own oil production has been increasing as the technology for fracking has been improving.
Like i said you have a VERY poor analytical skill on politics and strategic perspective. You know the west doesn't care so much about oil as they have much of their own, however how come they intervene in Syria? You do not know this, because like i said you do not see it.

What is happening in the news proves you constantly wrong and you are trying prevent losing face. A true man would indeed say, what you guys are saying you indeed have a point. As i had opinion X based on ABC, however FACTS are showing that you guys are indeed right based on Y and Z.
Reply

Abz2000
06-01-2017, 09:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
How can something be called a revolution, when it is NOT on the haq? I mean think about it. We say we are Muslims, the Muslims among us that have done their research to compare the so called "free democratic western 'revolution' " compared to the way Allah has said how the rule of the world should be practiced in the sense of justice, of way of life etc. When i talk about revolutions in the direction of TRUE Islam, i am talking about countries with majority Muslims. The so called "free democratic west" is as democratic as it can be right now i would suggest.

What are my observations on that?

- We see Brexit, the "losers" want STILL prevent Brexit from happening.
- Trump won in democratic rules right..?? Yet the opposition/sore losers are still attacking Trump and/or having demonstrations against him. Many Trump voters also right now are regretting and realizing that this so called democratic way of choosing a leader is useless as you will just get another puppet.
- Erdogan just recently won by a mere 2% with the presidential referendum, this means that about 48% is not with Erdogan.
- Macron and other parties joined forces to beat Le Pen. In other words if there was not joining forces, most probably Le Pen would have won. A lot of propaganda/brain programming went out to vote for Macron. Also with him he won about 64% ..that is just way to low. That means 36% of people is not happy with him.

In other words based on how to get the right leader in democratic language, is anarchy/chaos. That is not a peaceful and satisfied society..in other words fail for the so called "free democratic west".

Now we go to so called "law".

In "free western democratic world", when somebody kills my child and me an my wife see that he REALLY REALLY REALLY regrets it and we say we forgive you. Yet the state still punishes him. In the so called "free democratic west" when people go to jail and when they get out they are totally different people. They are even LESS able to adapt to society than when they went in. Where is the mercy in that?

When a guy rapes a woman he gets certain sentence. When we Muslims say such a person deserves the death penalty, so people stand up and say how "barbaric", when we say what if that woman was your "mother/sister/daughter/wife"? They often would reply "i would kill him!!". In Islam we do not have double standards, the woman at the end of the street has just amount of value as my own mother when talking about such things. We do not have double standards.

Islamic law does not change. Just look at things now. First they SHOUT out about how "free" and "democratic" we are, but try to force religious people to bend for them and agree to certain rules. In the past it was if you would not agree to homosexuality..that is fine as long as you do not harm them by any means. Religious people from every religion could live with that. However now a days at schools it is thought to children that homosexuality is "normal" and if you would object to that, you will be fined for it. What happened to the so called "free speech?" "own opinion"?.

Islam has certain boundaries and doesn't matter if we life own 1000 years still those same boundaries are kept. People have free speech with certain boundaries of not insulting. Saying God does not exist, you are free to that, but bring your evidence. Just saying it without wanting to debate/discuss with your evidence shows your dishonesty and your intention to just create anarchy in society. Which is NOT oke and such people should be prevented to do so as they are not really wanting to search the truth, but rather just create destruction in society.

So no brother revolution to go back to the right path of Allah and not that of the so called "free democratic west". As the "free democratic west" is destroying itself from within.

EDIT: Brother you cannot expect me to reply within minutes/hours. Give people time :).
:) I'm wondering if you really replied........


It's nice to see methods and tactics becoming clearer though........ :)

Revolution is bad...
....How can something be called a revolution, when it is NOT on the haq?
....the so called "free democratic western 'revolution' .
So no brother revolution to go back to the right path of Allah and not that of the so called "free democratic west". As the "free democratic west" is destroying itself from within.


maybe it's a zero sum that we are just to wisen up on....


ous words.
033:070 Shakir
:
O you who believe! be careful of(your duty to) Allah and speak the right word,
033:070 Sherali
:
O ye who believe ! Fear ALLAH and say the straightforward word.
033:070 Yusufali
:
O ye who believe! Fear Allah, and (always) say a word directed to the Right:

71. That He may make your conduct whole and sound and forgive you your sins: He that obeys Allah and His Messenger, has already attained the highest achievement.
72. We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it;- He was indeed unjust and foolish;-
73. (With the result) that Allah has to punish the Hypocrites, men and women, and the Unbelievers, men and women, and Allah turns in Mercy to the Believers, men and women: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Reply

Serinity
06-01-2017, 10:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
heck just last night one person on whatsapp told me I was lucky - I had to explain that LUCK is a false concept. Allah wills. this minor shirk is what the Muslims have no idea about - replace the word LUCK with FORTUNE to be in line with Islamic reasoning, simple stuff like this is unnoticed by Muslims.
Yeah, it irks me to see "good luck".. Because there is no luck, there is only The will of Allah.

Sometimes, one needs HARSH reminders, harsh warnings. Because if we sugar coat that, we aren't showing / conveying reality.
Reply

Scimitar
06-01-2017, 11:42 AM
Problem is Serenity - People today are so sensitive that guys have become girls!

This has all been prophesied! vAnd we are witnessing this before our very own eyes.

Scimi
Reply

Simple_Person
06-01-2017, 12:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
:) I'm wondering if you really replied........


It's nice to see methods and tactics becoming clearer though........ :)





maybe it's a zero sum that we are just to wisen up on....


ous words.
033:070 Shakir
:
O you who believe! be careful of(your duty to) Allah and speak the right word,
033:070 Sherali
:
O ye who believe ! Fear ALLAH and say the straightforward word.
033:070 Yusufali
:
O ye who believe! Fear Allah, and (always) say a word directed to the Right:

71. That He may make your conduct whole and sound and forgive you your sins: He that obeys Allah and His Messenger, has already attained the highest achievement.
72. We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it;- He was indeed unjust and foolish;-
73. (With the result) that Allah has to punish the Hypocrites, men and women, and the Unbelievers, men and women, and Allah turns in Mercy to the Believers, men and women: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
I am not sure what you try to say, however when i speak the path of truth, i speak about..standing up against injustice..done to Muslims or non-Muslims. Standing up against a dictator, standing up against the one who is pointing the gun at you and still speak the truth.
Reply

Silas
06-01-2017, 02:45 PM
Generally speaking, people in the west do not blame Islam for these attacks.

There are those who are angry and frustrated, and have very little knowledge of Islam or the situation in the Middle-East, and they make snap judgments. The terrorists prey upon the sensibilities of these people to paint Muslims as a dangerous enemy. Nevertheless, I don't think it is working.

Others may blame "Muslims" in some general way for criminal actions by immigrants or refugees in Europe, when this has nothing to do with the religion, and everything to do with culture/upbringing, etc. There are criminals in every nation and of every ethnicity, but somehow in this instance, religion gets conflated with the behavior.

Where I live, we have an enormous crime problem, and it isn't Muslims committing the crimes. Those are the most peaceful people in the city lol

It is important not to assume that westerners, Christians, etc. will view Muslims as dangerous, or the "other". That simply isn't the case, and one should not have a persecution-complex.
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Atta Rahman
06-01-2017, 05:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I can half agree with you,

what I do not agree with is your contradiction:

you said to stop vilifying the west then in the same breath - you said - we need to take a critical look at our society - guess what? that's the same thing.

if I'm to critique the western society - then brother - it will be vilified!

Scimi
Just because you can't critique something without vilifying it does not mean it's the same thing. It just means you are incapable of productive criticism. Others are beyond your incapability.
Reply

Serinity
06-01-2017, 07:35 PM
:salam:

The West does not move based on morality or justice, but purely on self-interest, and same with Russia.

Allahu alam.
Reply

Scimitar
06-01-2017, 08:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

The West does not move based on morality or justice, but purely on self-interest, and same with Russia.

Allahu alam.
Potent comment, let me add to it in sh'Allah

The west teaches Evolution as a fact though it is unproven and subject to belief held in bias. This belief teaches "survival of the fittest" - the antithesis to "moral anchoring" - because altruism remains unexplained by evolutionists. Altruism is a human trait which is also shared in the animal and insect kingdom - take for example ant colonies which work together -each ant knows its role - or how about the bees which build hives for their queen? or how about (enter XYZ) this argumentum ad ignorantium is visibly flawed from the atheist - and so when applied to humans - fails even more.

Islam has always existed - from Adam AS til today - and so this is where we get our moral anchoring from - and it is only the godless evolutionist who claim moral anchoring without justification - and with strong opposition to his own ideals of "survival of the fittest" - this stupidity is oft overlooked by them and doesn't work out logically. And logic was never their strong point. Let's face it - any scientific mind which asks HOW and ignores the WHY is obviously half baked!

I love being a Muslim

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-01-2017, 08:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Atta Rahman
Just because you can't critique something without vilifying it does not mean it's the same thing. It just means you are incapable of productive criticism. Others are beyond your incapability.
you are absolutely wrong.

You do it then, let's see how you fare since youy posed the challenge first - i'll let you go first einstein :D as for your caveat of Constructive Criticism - where did you write "constructive" in your initial post? You just wrote "criticism"... but I'll entertain your premise - so go ahead lol

You are gonna get schooled so hard wallahi, you will wish you wasn't fasting so you could go ape!

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
06-02-2017, 12:04 AM
If anyone can critique secularist society honestly and holistically and sincerely based on a stable and uncontradictory method of judgement without ending up automatically vilifying it - they deserve a Nobel prize for doing the impossible and a gold medal for Olympic grade semantics.
Reply

Zafran
06-02-2017, 12:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Iran shares borders with both Afghanistan and Pakistan and Farsi is very close to Pashto and Dari (Afghanistan's official languages, and many Pakistanis speak Pashto). Also, Iranians, Afghans, and Pakistanis are not Arabs; they are ethnically-speaking closer to Iranians. So while it's true that Afghans and Pakistans are Sunni in majority, they share other things in common with Iran, so they are less anti-Iran than Saudi Arabia and its allies. As for Turkey, they are also not Arabs, but if there was to be a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia (may that never happen), I am sure that they would side with Saudi Arabia. As for Israel, Iran has had relatively good ties with it prior to the 1979 Revolution. After that, things went down into the pits, and I suggest the reason was that having Israel and the US as enemies was convenient for the Khomeini regime, as they were hoping to find common ground with the rest of the Muslim world by having an enemy in common, and it helped with their propaganda efforts and in justifying the existence of the regime.

So, of course, I am simplifying by saying that the Saudi Arabia-Iranian conflict is primarily religious, but I do think that if there wasn't a religious difference, they wouldn't be constantly fighting one another.
Disagree Pakistan has many languages but its official language is Urdu - It also shares culturally a lot more with India (as Pakistan and India were one before partition 1947) however both countries dont like each other because of Kashmir. Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran are good with each other simply because they are next each other and rely on each other for trade not due to religion. The same relationship explains why Pakistan is on good terms with china.

Iran had good relations with the US and Isreal before 1979 because of the shah of Iran (not a nice guy). The ayatollah had a lot of support in Iran because the shah was perceived to be corrupt, He also came into power by overthrowing a democratically elected government with the help with the US (1953 coup). All this went against him.

I dont believe Turkey would support anyone in a war with the saudis and Iranian simply because it has too much on its own plate (syria, the kurds, internal issues). It would most likely stay out just like it did with the war with in the 80s between Iraq and Iran.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that your over emphasis on sectarian lines isn't a good explanation on whats actually is happening. It simply doesn't take in account of the bigger issues - Why does a Iranian religious theocracy support a secularist Baathist government in Syria but against them in The Iran and Iraq war in the 80s? Why does Saudi Arabia not like Isis even though they have some similarities? Why do the Turks not like the Kurds even though both are sunni? etc etc All those alliances and wars can easily be explained on geopolitical lines rather then religious lines.
Reply

Serinity
06-02-2017, 12:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Potent comment, let me add to it in sh'Allah

The west teaches Evolution as a fact though it is unproven and subject to belief held in bias. This belief teaches "survival of the fittest" - the antithesis to "moral anchoring" - because altruism remains unexplained by evolutionists. Altruism is a human trait which is also shared in the animal and insect kingdom - take for example ant colonies which work together -each ant knows its role - or how about the bees which build hives for their queen? or how about (enter XYZ) this argumentum ad ignorantium is visibly flawed from the atheist - and so when applied to humans - fails even more.

Islam has always existed - from Adam AS til today - and so this is where we get our moral anchoring from - and it is only the godless evolutionist who claim moral anchoring without justification - and with strong opposition to his own ideals of "survival of the fittest" - this stupidity is oft overlooked by them and doesn't work out logically. And logic was never their strong point. Let's face it - any scientific mind which asks HOW and ignores the WHY is obviously half baked!

I love being a Muslim

Scimi
Their belief "survival of the fittest" has always been contradictory to human nature and the Fitrah. This belief poses a grim future and a sadist society of humans. Contrary to the fitrah.

Lets disect it, shall we? This belief says to kill the weak, because we can not have them in our gene pool. To kill the impotent men and infertile women because they are useless and can't reproduce, etc.

And the biggest ignorant assumption of all - they think they created themselves! How deluded, wallahi. They only talk from assumption - but they realise it not. They talk out of thin air, but don't realise it.

And they have deified science. Ignorant and arrogant. But they realise it not.

Allahu alam.
Reply

Zafran
06-02-2017, 12:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
The west teaches Evolution as a fact though it is unproven and subject to belief held in bias. This belief teaches "survival of the fittest" - the antithesis to "moral anchoring" - because altruism remains unexplained by evolutionists. Altruism is a human trait which is also shared in the animal and insect kingdom - take for example ant colonies which work together -each ant knows its role - or how about the bees which build hives for their queen? or how about (enter XYZ) this argumentum ad ignorantium is visibly flawed from the atheist - and so when applied to humans - fails even more.
Evolutionist have tried to explain this by saying altruism exists in species because its gives them mutual benefit and helps people survive and thrive together. Alone they would have less chances of surviving and reproducing. Although I do not believe any scientific theory is a good explanation on morality. As a Muslim I believe it calls to a higher realm outside of science - God and religion -Islam.

Just like science doesn't give us meaning or explain our subjective conscious experience or our aesthetic perspective. It doesn't have much to do with Morality as well.
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Karl
06-02-2017, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
If anyone can critique secularist society honestly and holistically and sincerely based on a stable and uncontradictory method of judgement without ending up automatically vilifying it - they deserve a Nobel prize for doing the impossible and a gold medal for Olympic grade semantics.
The secularists believe they are the lords of the world and the controllers of destiny, the pious do not.
Reply

Scimitar
06-02-2017, 01:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Evolutionist have tried to explain this by saying altruism exists in species because its gives them mutual benefit and helps people survive and thrive together. Alone they would have less chances of surviving and reproducing. Although I do not believe any scientific theory is a good explanation on morality. As a Muslim I believe it calls to a higher realm outside of science - God and religion -Islam.

Just like science doesn't give us meaning or explain our subjective conscious experience or our aesthetic perspective. It doesn't have much to do with Morality as well.
morality is closely linked with altruism. Whose to say ants don't have morals? They have fitra! So whose to say?

the issue here is that altruism is directly in conflict with the idea which evolutionists propagate - survival of the fittest.

In fact, watch this: https://youtu.be/TPFfkr_Xnjg?t=33m23s for a better understanding of what science can and cannot prove!



God bless,

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-02-2017, 02:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
If anyone can critique secularist society honestly and holistically and sincerely based on a stable and uncontradictory method of judgement without ending up automatically vilifying it - they deserve a Nobel prize for doing the impossible and a gold medal for Olympic grade semantics.
Olympic grade gold medal semantics :D pwahahahaaa, bro, I miss you for the sake of Allah Subhaana wa ta'aala - when you coming back for a visit? It's been tooooooo long wallah!

Scimi
Reply

Simple_Person
06-02-2017, 07:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Why do the Turks not like the Kurds even though both are sunni?
Because the Turks have taken Kurdish lands. After WW1, there would be a treaty called "Treaty of Sèvres" where a independent Kurdistan would be there, however Mustafa Kemal (ataturk), deceived the Kurds, by rejecting the plan and making a deal with the western powers to make a land called Turkey ( Treaty of Lausanne). From there on, the killing and oppressing the Kurds have been going on. They were banned for decades wearing their own Kurdish clothes, speaking the language, listening to their own music (in own language), giving their children Kurdish names, given their children Kurdish education etc. etc. Turks were trying to make Kurds forget their own identity, just like what these days mostly has happened with Berbers in Morocco for example. They do not say we are Berbers...they say we are Moroccans. However with Kurds they objected it and have been fighting against the oppressive Turkish state.

Back in the 80's, PKK finally was created to fight against Turkey. The Turks have branded them as "terrorists", while by logical view a terrorist is somebody who terrorizes you in your own lands. Which automatically would be the Turks occupying in Kurdish lands. When you ask a Turk they say those lands belong to us. If you ask them based on what? They say our forefathers have fought to regain it. However as far as you go in history it were the Kurds even fighting those wars. And even during the Ottoman empire many Kurds were fighting the Ottomans. So the Turks through out the history deception upon deception. No principles, only imperial dreams and nationalistic ideas.

To this day Erdogan says i am a Muslim, however all you see in his actions is nationalism and imperial dreams. No Islam whatsoever. He has now a lot of power one might say if so, what keeps you from implementing Shari'a in Turkey as a whole? Or even leaving NATO, which is killing Muslim? Or even uniting with the Kurds under Islam and make the west leave Middle East? Hypocrisy upon hypocrisy. In the past the world did not know about Kurds and who they were etc. However Allah has also made that clear. The hypocrisy of the Turks is also shown far and bright to people all around the world, when they support ISIS, while ISIS killing Muslims. Yet there are those foolish Arabs that choose Turkish side to fight Kurds instead of fighting oppression. They think this will not be used against them on the Day of Judgement? However i am more afraid for them that they might not even believe in Day of Judgement. As Islam even with many Arabs has become something "our forefather believed". Like for example these days with many Muslims, they fast because their parents fast, not because they say well Allah has commanded us to fast.

Indeed Rasullah(saws) has spoken the truth.

"You would tread the same path as was trodden by those before you inch by inch and step by step so much so that if they had entered into the hole of the lizard, you would follow them in this also. We said: Allah's Messenger, do you mean Jews and Christians (by your words) "those before you"? He said: Who else (than those two religious groups)?"

Source used: https://sunnah.com/muslim/47/7

As the Jews and Christians are worshiping their priests and rabbis, being a Christians because your parents were Christians and pursuing nationalism instead of what Allah has commended them to do. What is these days any different with Muslims from them? Those lines of Muslims and Christian/Jews is becoming less and less clearly visible. As another example Christians celebrating Christmas while it was a pagan holiday and even Muslims have joined them in celebrating Christmas. As if that is not shirk.
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fromelsewhere
06-02-2017, 10:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Iran had good relations with the US and Isreal before 1979 because of the shah of Iran (not a nice guy). The ayatollah had a lot of support in Iran because the shah was perceived to be corrupt, He also came into power by overthrowing a democratically elected government with the help with the US (1953 coup). All this went against him.
As corrupt as the shah may have been, the ayatollah regime has been even worst for its people. I happen to know some Iranians who witnessed first-hand women getting severely beaten in the streets in Iran by the "morality police" for not being covered enough after the ayatollah regime took control. The ayatollahs accused the shah of being corrupt, which was true and which is why countries like France initially supported the ouster of the shah, but things have gone far worst in Iran in terms of both human rights and corruption since then. Sometimes you're better off with the devil you know than the devil you don't know. To be fair, things have been gradually improving since the early years post-revolution as the ayatollah regime has decided to relax a bit and be less controlling. But matter-of-the-fact remains that Iranians still have less freedoms now than under the shah.

I do hope that Iran returns to the pre-1953 coup days where it had a true democratically-elected government. Once again, we have the UK and the US in 1953 destabilizing a country's government, and later, it comes back to haunt them.

It is still in Iran's interest to stop its systematic anti-US positions and to pursue further dialogue with the US and other Western powers because it gives the US a good excuse to sell billions of dollars worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia. I can't see this US-Saudi Arabia deal leading to any good (to say the least).

format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
I dont believe Turkey would support anyone in a war with the saudis and Iranian simply because it has too much on its own plate (syria, the kurds, internal issues). It would most likely stay out just like it did with the war with in the 80s between Iraq and Iran.
Turkey is very anti-Assad. Why is that, I wonder? Turkey has tried to help many anti-Assad rebel groups, and Russia has been very vocal at times about this issue. Maybe Turkey won't directly join in the fighting if there was to be a war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, but I suspect that they would work "behind the scenes" to help out Saudi Arabia. Of course, I could be wrong and you might be right. Hopefully, we will never find out who's right and who's wrong. It does depend to some extent also on who decides to attack first and for what excuse.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Ultimately what I'm saying is that your over emphasis on sectarian lines isn't a good explanation on whats actually is happening. It simply doesn't take in account of the bigger issues - Why does a Iranian religious theocracy support a secularist Baathist government in Syria but against them in The Iran and Iraq war in the 80s? Why does Saudi Arabia not like Isis even though they have some similarities? Why do the Turks not like the Kurds even though both are sunni? etc etc All those alliances and wars can easily be explained on geopolitical lines rather then religious lines.
Why Iran supports the Baathist government in Syria? That's easy. Maybe the Assad regime is relatively secular, but they are nevertheless Shiites. Why does Saudi Arabia not like ISIS? That's also easy. Saudi Arabia does not like ISIS because ISIS is an insult to Islam and gives a bad reputation in particular to Salafism and Wahabism. But you are right about the Turks not liking the Kurds... it is mainly because they don't want them to have their own country and potentially take a part of Turkey as territory for their new country.
Reply

fromelsewhere
06-02-2017, 10:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
The secularists believe they are the lords of the world and the controllers of destiny, the pious do not.
The (ultra) pious believe that everything that happens is God's/Allah's/The Great Manitou's will. This reduces us to puppets.
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Zafran
06-03-2017, 12:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
It is still in Iran's interest to stop its systematic anti-US positions and to pursue further dialogue with the US and other Western powers because it gives the US a good excuse to sell billions of dollars worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia. I can't see this US-Saudi Arabia deal leading to any good (to say the least).
I dont believe it does - How would the US feel if somebody was bullying it to make certain concessions and if it didn't listen slap sanctions on it. No country deserves to be treated like that - especially if its independent. Especially when the US keeps threatening Iran with war which is bad for the world.

format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Why Iran supports the Baathist government in Syria? That's easy. Maybe the Assad regime is relatively secular, but they are nevertheless Shiites. Why does Saudi Arabia not like ISIS? That's also easy. Saudi Arabia does not like ISIS because ISIS is an insult to Islam and gives a bad reputation in particular to Salafism and Wahabism. But you are right about the Turks not liking the Kurds... it is mainly because they don't want them to have their own country and potentially take a part of Turkey as territory for their new country.
The questions were Rhetorical But I disagree with few statements you made.

Iran supports Assad because its one of the few friends it has. Assad also is not the same type of shia that Iran consists of. Iran is twelver and Assad is alwaite.

The Saudis dont like ISIS because they are a prime threat to them - Its salafi but with no monrachy. A threat to the Saudi royal family.
Reply

fromelsewhere
06-03-2017, 12:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
I dont believe it does - How would the US feel if somebody was bullying it to make certain concessions and if it didn't listen slap sanctions on it. No country deserves to be treated like that - especially if its independent. Especially when the US keeps threatening Iran with war which is bad for the world.
Iran was threatening other countries in the Middle East. For instance, it was threatening Israel of destruction by building a nuke, and it was very hostile towards other countries such as Saudi Arabia and the US for no good reason. Many countries felt quite threatened by Iran's behavior, and not without reasons. Iran was also funding many Shiite militant groups such as the Hezbollah, which are heavily involved in terrorist activities and are currently strongly backing al-Assad. The sanctions were therefore fair game in my opinion. Iran wants to be hostile to the US and others? Fine, but the US and other countries will respond with sanctions. If you want to act like a bully towards others in the region, don't be surprised that the hostile attitude is returned in kind. Things have changed slightly under Rouhani, but he has his hands tied to make further reforms by the ayatollah regime. Too bad.
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Scimitar
06-03-2017, 12:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Iran was threatening other countries in the Middle East. [/snip]
When was the last time Iran invaded a nation?

Scimi
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Zafran
06-03-2017, 12:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Iran was threatening other countries in the Middle East. For instance, it was threatening Israel of destruction by building a nuke, and it was very hostile towards other countries such as Saudi Arabia and the US for no good reason. Many countries felt quite threatened by Iran's behavior, and not without reasons. Iran was also funding many Shiite militant groups such as the Hezbollah, which are heavily involved in terrorist activities and are currently strongly backing al-Assad. The sanctions were therefore fair game in my opinion. Iran wants to be hostile to the US and others? Fine, but the US and other countries will respond with sanctions. If you want to act like a bully towards others in the region, don't be surprised that the hostile attitude is returned in kind. Things have changed slightly under Rouhani, but he has his hands tied to make further reforms by the ayatollah regime. Too bad.
are you serious?? You do know that Israel has a nuke - has invaded countless countries and occupies one - The Saudis are right now in a war and lets not forget there funding with western nations of crazy rebel groups in Syria. Furthermore they have just received new toys from Trump.

And the US - well war is what it likes and lives for.

Hezbollah is a political party in Lebanon - If the US can fund Israel and the Saudis - then the Iranians have right to fund Hezbollah.

The last time Iran was at war was with Iraq with Saddam Hussian in the 80s - a defensive war - who was backed by the US Ironically. Iran hasn't invaded any country - unlike others.
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UrbanMuslimah
06-03-2017, 02:46 PM
In my area where i live in (south east london) people there are open minded and don't think that Muslims should get blamed but just the bomber.^o)
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muslim brother
06-03-2017, 03:13 PM
the responsibility to challenge the ideology,the justification for murder, must come from us muslims.

we know it is haram.we do condemn it.

but what do we do about it ?

ahmed patel
sick to death of saying this past few days,
unfortunately the brother in law of 7/7 london bombings ringleader 12 years ago

in 5 weeks im gonna have to deal with the "anniversary" of 7/7

more c"*p to deal with...:omg:
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Abz2000
06-03-2017, 03:33 PM
Yes, we should condemn those criminals who betray Allah and His messenger, who join murderous gangs whose leaders and commanders reject the supreme authority of Allah and hate what He has revealed, who embark on unjust invasions based on falsehood and barefaced lies and who oppress and murder millions of innocent men women and children and destroy property without just cause. We should absolve ourselves of any relationship to the oppressors and we should pray to Allah that He delivers us from their harm and that He doesn't punish us with them.

We should also beware of those who claim to be Muslims whilst they are actually deceivers who think they deceive Allah and the believers whilst they only deceive themselves and the weak minded faasiqoon of like nature to theirs.

Last time it was "roasted cashew", somehow I had a strong feeling it would be steered into a way of enraging, accusing and vilifying Muslims - and some people still wondered if it was a conspiracy theory.

Muslim World Silent on Syrian Government Massacre

Muslim World Silent on Syrian Government Massacre

https://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...ml#post1520851
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Simple_Person
06-04-2017, 02:36 AM
@noraina sister you done ONLY grieving about Manchester..and not talking about politics?..because if we keep doing that right now what just again happened in UK we still shouldn't talk politics according to your logic.

You see what I was trying to saY?
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fromelsewhere
06-04-2017, 02:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Hezbollah is a political party in Lebanon
Hezbollah is a bit more than a political party. I'll leave it at that.
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Eric H
06-04-2017, 04:51 AM
Greetings and peace be with you fromelsewhere;

The (ultra) pious believe that everything that happens is God's/Allah's/The Great Manitou's will. This reduces us to puppets
The fear of God is the start of Wisdom. At some point we shall all have to stand before God, so it is only right that we should strive to be the best person possible. We pray to a God of justice, compassion and mercy, and during this month of Ramadan it is a worthwhile exercise to study the 99 names of Allah.

In the spirit of searching for a God of justice compassion and mercy,

Eric
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Zafran
06-05-2017, 01:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Hezbollah is a bit more than a political party. I'll leave it at that.
Its a political party - like Likud.
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fromelsewhere
06-05-2017, 01:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Its a political party - like Likud.
It's a political party that likes to travel to foreign lands and fight: https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...ing-isis-iraq/

When they're not fighting in Syria, they're fighting in Iraq alongside Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...KBN18N0F9?il=0
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Abz2000
06-05-2017, 09:24 PM
Mullah bradleys for cnn - where news becomes stage managed:



2nd July, 2007 – Parliament Square, London

I was taking a friend around London today when we came across a protest in Parliament Square.

http://tanya-n.com/Rushdie/rushdie1.JPG

It must have been a pretty spontaneous demonstration – police had just started to arrive.

http://tanya-n.com/Rushdie/rushdie2.JPG

I crossed the road and went into the park to take a look at what was going on.

http://tanya-n.com/Rushdie/rushdie3.JPG
http://tanya-n.com/Rushdie/rushdie4.JPG


They were demonstrating against Salman Rushdie’s knighthood, which has already sparked protests in other countries such as Pakistan and Iran.


http://www.tanya-n.com/?p=80







The book was banned in the Republic of India as hate speech directed towards a specific religious group.

Humphries estimated nearly 3,000 Muslims were gathered in front of the mosque in north London June 22, after Friday prayers, to protest Queen Elizabeth’s knighting of Indian author Salman Rushdie, the target of a death-sentence fatwa for “insulting” Islam’s prophet Muhammad in his 1988 book “The Satanic Verses.”

Muslim leader’s charge, along with interviews with protesters and a “literal foaming-at-the-mouth” diatribe by another speaker, were captured on tape June 22 by nationally syndicated talk radio host Rusty Humphries.

Humphries, who was in London with WND Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein, recorded angry Muslim leader Abu Saif, who kept his voice at a fever pitch through declarations such as: “Brothers and sisters, make no mistake. Make no mistake. The British government, the queen, the MPs in this country, they are enemies to you, enemies to Allah and enemies to the Muslims.”


“Democracy, hypocrisy,” Choudary chanted as the crowd echoed him. “Tony Blair, terrorist! Tony Blair, murderer! Queen Elizabeth, go to hell!”

For Humphries, the response of the Muslims at Islam’s largest house of worship in the UK was telling.

“Not one said, ‘You’re not speaking for me’ or ‘Not in my name.’ They stood there and watched and applauded,” he told WND.
.

.....to defeat Muslims militarily, even though they were divided and weak, the forces of Western crusaders had long since launched a “theological war” whose ideological platform was described in the words of a U.S. official, “If you found out that Mullah Omar is on one street corner doing something, you set up Mullah Bradley on the other street corner to counter it.”

Thus, “Mullah Bradley” has become synonymous to an “Islamic clergyman” who, with a turban on the head and in the military uniform of the crusader forces, “teaches” Muslims the “true Islam.” Very often, Mullah Bradley does not wear a military uniform, but a uniform of a (grand) mufti, an Islamic teacher, or a “pious scholar.”
However, regardless of whether or not they wear turbans, military uniforms, or robes of imams, a common characteristic of all Mullah Bradleys is to teach people the “true Islam,” the commandments of which were carefully written in Washington.
The fundamental commandment of this “true Islam” is: “Love the enemy of Islam as you love your neighbor; consider the occupiers as liberators and the freedom fighters as terrorists.”

[url]http://listofbidaas.blogspot.com/2013/04/are-you-follwoing-mullah-bradley.html?m=1[/url
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