PDA

View Full Version : 100 years of humiliation



Scimitar
05-31-2017, 04:49 PM
Assalaam alaikum bros and sisters.

Since the khilafat fell - we've been humiliated beyond the scope of imagination... I'm trying to understand the depth of this humiliation but i'm overwhelmed by it - I see the current generation of Muslims and think to myself "we don't need further humiliation, we're doing fine by our selves in that department."

If you are interested in this topic, then please contribute your thoughts on the ways we have been humiliated and oppressed in the world as Muslims over the past 100 years.

Suqoon: Every century Allah will send a champion to revive Islam - I believe we are in the last hour of time now - and to me that means the next reviver will be the Qaim - al Mahdi AS.

Your thoughts about the various manifestations of humiliation and oppression are welcome in this thread in sh'Allah. Please provide references and links to the data you source from thank you and JazakAllahu khair for reading.

Scimi
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Bobbyflay23
06-01-2017, 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Assalaam alaikum bros and sisters.

Since the khilafat fell - we've been humiliated beyond the scope of imagination... I'm trying to understand the depth of this humiliation but i'm overwhelmed by it - I see the current generation of Muslims and think to myself "we don't need further humiliation, we're doing fine by our selves in that department."

If you are interested in this topic, then please contribute your thoughts on the ways we have been humiliated and oppressed in the world as Muslims over the past 100 years.

Suqoon: Every century Allah will send a champion to revive Islam - I believe we are in the last hour of time now - and to me that means the next reviver will be the Qaim - al Mahdi AS.

Your thoughts about the various manifestations of humiliation and oppression are welcome in this thread in sh'Allah. Please provide references and links to the data you source from thank you and JazakAllahu khair for reading.

Scimi
Allah said he'd provide for Makkah after the mushriks left according to a person I was listening to on a podcast and he did for a while and as industry got big allah provided for us in a new way (oil) and then they come in and steal it all from us also they obviously all the terrorist organizations
Reply

anatolian
06-01-2017, 07:50 AM
I too believe that we have been living the end times since WW1. That war was the practical collapse of the caliphate. We are just living it in advanced degree for the last a few decades. So, humalation only comes by your allowance of it. No one can humilate you unless you let them to do so. All those fitna ocured in the past and currently going on allowed the evils to humilate Muslims world wide.

I dislike Erdoğan and his political movement but one of the few things he did good was to put an end to the humilation of religious people by the secular elits here in Turkey. This is the main reason of their long term rule. Regardless of their bad habits religious people go on to vote them since they have realized that they have the same rights as seculars. But a deception is also going on in parralel. Now those elected "Muslims" are fooling people.

The above example applies to all Muslim lands I guess. Weakness allows the humilation and ignorance allows the deception. When Muslims defeat the weakness and ignorance then we can achieve salvation in this world.
Reply

Scimitar
06-01-2017, 11:45 AM
Any historians here? I wish to have a discussion in sh'Allah!
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
anatolian
06-01-2017, 12:36 PM
Well I am not a historian but we can have a discussion. At least I have Google ;D
Reply

urkahnkhan
06-01-2017, 12:46 PM
The 100 years of humiliation is not by coincidence but it came with a purpose and specifically targetting the larger populations amongst us who have unfortunately deviated from the path. You see when you have outspread extreme sufis, Shism, Habash, and sorts of mysticals spreading away from Islam and the true creed this is bound to happen. Why because Allah says in the Quran we have sent an army against the israelites to humilated their faces because they deviated. This is exactly what has happened to the ancient generations who believed and this is what is happening to us now.

And to forget all these secular and liberal muslims who like man-made laws more then Allah... I say this humiliation is justified unfortunately. This is punishment without a doubt.
Reply

Abz2000
06-01-2017, 01:37 PM
I believe we've come through the most ignorant patch and that the current generation are waking up - the ignorant patch appears to have happened in the generations of our parents and grandparents and the dajjal is melting as long as we continue to learn and teach our children that there's more to life than the "world without God" secularist system which is the real humiliating stage.
When I look, I see a separation between truth and falsehood taking place and one or two critical thinkers in almost every family who are not deceived by false popular culture and who refuse to laugh like monkeys at everything that the secularst tv laughs at and who refuse to be dismayed at everything the secular tv tricks and urges them to be dismayed at, but rather measure by God's plumbline and level.
Before it was just a case of getting killed or abuse despite the pleas to be allowed to survive in humiliation, but now we have youth recognizing their situation and standing for the truth in Allah's way despite the mockery and threats by the fools and trolls, and others who are aware but calmly and quietly changing themselves and the corrupt situation without being reckless.
Reply

Serinity
06-01-2017, 01:46 PM
:salam:

May Allah bring victory to Syria, and all other Muslim countries.. May Allah rid the earth of bashaar and all the other oppressors. Ameen.

What can we do to bring ourselves out of this situation?

Allahu alam.
Reply

Abz2000
06-01-2017, 11:28 PM
If Allah guides Bashar to submit fully to Allah and establish Islam in sincerity and truth - he'll likely get his kingdom back, be in the strongest position to sue for peace in the region, give no one a reasonable excuse to fight in the region, and set up an empire that will unite the Muslim world and topple all the puppet regimes in the region.
Oh Allah, please guide Bashar al Assad

When i think of Assad, i think of nebuchadnezzar and Prophet Daniel's (pbuh) amazing sequence of events.

(building of the temple part was not stated by daniel as recorded in the scripture - but a deceptive addition in the movie, the book of daniel in the O.T states that those events will take place at the time of the Messiah after a God knows how long 70 years, question is - has Israel found the Messiah? ) :
Please don't ask me about Úmar's actions on what was reported to be Daniel's body or of the division of the artefacts - i personally believe that the Prophet pbuh and Abu Bakr ra would have preserved the artefacts and prayed at his grave if they passed by it.


A real high quality movie that i watched with the family - everyone old enough and able to understand paid full attention - like it was talking to todays leaders and citizens.



1This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2“Stand at the gate of the Lord’s house and there proclaim this message:

“ ‘Hear the word of the Lord, all you people of Judah who come through these gates to worship the Lord. 3This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Reform your ways and your actions, and I will let you live in this place.
4Do not trust in deceptive words and say, “This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord!”
5If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, 6if you do not oppress the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, 7then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your ancestors for ever and ever. 8But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.

9“ ‘Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury,a burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known, 10and then come and stand before me in this house, which bears my Name, and say, “We are safe”—safe to do all these detestable things?
11Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you?
But I have been watching! declares the Lord...

From Jeremiah 7.

the remainder of the chapter describes consequences - but let him who will read it since it's harsh and hopefully the above is enough to make everyone think.
Reply

AHMED PATEL
06-02-2017, 02:06 PM
on the rot in tabligh ,nizamuddin urdu

Reply

greenhill
06-02-2017, 03:03 PM
Very interesting topic..

hmmmm.... The Jews were humiliated by the Pharaohs, the Christians by the Romans..... the Muslims? Now it is their turn... The only difference is that we are doing it to ourselves. Well, not entirely true, but at least the ones in power became corrupted and would destroy the deen to maintain their stranglehold on power.


:peace:
Reply

AHMED PATEL
03-10-2018, 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by AHMED PATEL
on the rot in tabligh ,nizamuddin urdu

https://www.dawn.com/news/1391624

its only getting worse,unfortunately .and this news report is accurate,sadly.

Reply

Silas
03-12-2018, 03:04 PM
I think we need to make a distinction between political setbacks/humiliations and religious.

Islam is the world's fastest growing religion, and stands to grow by 70% before 2060. The average Muslim family has 2.9 children, compared to 2.6 for Christians (for Jews it is much lower--how may even have kids anymore?). Masjids are springing up all over the world, and it isn't just people in southeast Asia or Africa embracing the faith--people in the west are reverting as well.

The ONLY thing that will stop Islam is bad Muslims, violent radicals, and people using the faith as a pretense for political and personal empowerment. Islam is something you hold in your heart, not proof of membership in a political party, or gaining a few oil wells for your tribe.

Christianity was at its low-point when it was simply a tool for monarchs to oppress and terrorize people (although some could argue that it is at its low point now)

So I don't think anyone is "humiliating" the faith--Islam is the future, and even non-Muslims realize this.
Reply

Misbah-Abd
03-12-2018, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by Silas
I think we need to make a distinction between political setbacks/humiliations and religious.

Islam is the world's fastest growing religion, and stands to grow by 70% before 2060. The average Muslim family has 2.9 children, compared to 2.6 for Christians (for Jews it is much lower--how may even have kids anymore?). Masjids are springing up all over the world, and it isn't just people in southeast Asia or Africa embracing the faith--people in the west are reverting as well.

The ONLY thing that will stop Islam is bad Muslims, violent radicals, and people using the faith as a pretense for political and personal empowerment. Islam is something you hold in your heart, not proof of membership in a political party, or gaining a few oil wells for your tribe.

Christianity was at its low-point when it was simply a tool for monarchs to oppress and terrorize people (although some could argue that it is at its low point now)

So I don't think anyone is "humiliating" the faith--Islam is the future, and even non-Muslims realize this.
Sorry, but Islam is also a political, economic and social system. There is no "separation of church and state" in Islam. It governs all.
Reply

Silas
03-13-2018, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
Sorry, but Islam is also a political, economic and social system. There is no "separation of church and state" in Islam. It governs all.
Yes, I agree, however ...

My point is that many of the political objectives we see within Muslim countries/regimes these days are hardly consistent with the religion itself. Aside from this, direct military action or rebellion typically leads to disaster and humiliation, or degenerates into terrorism.

Some of these guys have an attitude that is similar to right-wing extremist groups in the west, or "Southern Nationalists" in the US who want to overthrow governments and engage in armed insurrection in order to "save" their people. Everyone knows that the minute these guys pick up a gun to march on a capital they will be mowed down within minutes.

Victories for Islam are won by convincing people in the west of the merits of the religion, by engaging in lawful, "democratic" political action (running for office, working with leaders, etc.), and by reforming the Muslim regimes that oppress their own people while blaming the west, or even the "Great Satan" (as the Iranian regime likes to do), for everything that is wrong in their countries. Who here would rather live in Saudi Arabia than the US? Honestly?

You are winning--you just don't see it. And the inability to see the tactics and strategy that work might lead to more humiliation.
Reply

Junon
03-14-2018, 11:52 PM
Salaam

I understand what your saying, we’ve had similar problems now and in the past but this solution in my view hasn’t helped Christians much, where has it got you? submitting to the liberals, secularists, modernists? Its contributed to its marginislation, decline and has lead to the emergence of secular theocracies.

Just as an aside, I'm thinking perhaps Christians need a leader like this.



I think what it comes down to is that we want to make our own decisions and we cant be left to do that. Outside powers have continually have attempted to impose westernisation (forget that now its globalism) through guile or force with varying degrees of success.

Having said that I agree with you a lot of our problems are our own, I think wrestling with the whole concept of modernity has been tough and will take a long time to work through.

And yes I dont deny the advantages, major advantages of living in western societies, theres much to be impressed with and to learn from.
Reply

Scimitar
03-15-2018, 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam
Walakum salaam Junon, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us! TI found your post to be exactly what I was looking for, and I particularly liked how you didn't ignore the Christian issue - that really warmed to my reasoning as it didn't just omit the worlds largest faith group and their own struggle in this godless propagation we know today as globalism!
Reply

Scimitar
03-21-2018, 02:58 AM
The History of Al Aqsa | Shaikh Mujahid Ali



The Virtues of Al Aqsa in Islam and Judaism | Shaikh Abu Haneefa Sohail



The Current Situation & Our Duty + Balfour Declaration | Shaikh Abu Alia

Reply

Junon
03-21-2018, 11:15 PM
Salaam

Originally Posted by Scimitar
Walakum salaam Junon, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us! TI found your post to be exactly what I was looking for, and I particularly liked how you didn't ignore the Christian issue - that really warmed to my reasoning as it didn't just omit the worlds largest faith group and their own struggle in this godless propagation we know today as globalism!
I met working class Christians early on in my life, they had a big influence on me, so whatever disagreements I have with Christians I don't have animus towards them. It really makes me sad what happened to Christianity in the UK, its the death of an entire culture imsad.

I barely remember the time when they would ask you whats your 'christian name', it was just considered normal back then. If you did something like that now you'd be sacked and if the seculars would have their way sent to a re-education camp to think 'correct' thoughts :skeleton:

Some books that might interests you if you want to understand the nature of globalism and the goals of international capitalism. Easy to read and informative.

Blurb

Babel Inc. is an essential primer on the politics of globalisation and multiculturalism. Bolton demonstrates that conventional distinctions between the political left and right have been transcended by transnational corporations who regard the remnants of the nation-state as the last hurdle for global domination and the attainment of their "new world order". Babel Inc. is an exposé of multiculturalism as a "social control mechanism" that scorches the earth in preparation for the coming of the rationale of global capitalism: homo globicus. This global man will be at home anywhere in the world because the world will be homogeneously liberal. If that idea seems farfetched now, perhaps at the conclusion of Babel Inc. it will seem less a possibility than a growing reality. The strength of Bolton's book lies not just in his studious research of historical facts, but also in his ability to focuses on the theoretical root causes of the problem, i.e., the dynamics of the Enlightenment and its religion of Progress, coupled with the starry-eyed American Puritanism, whose violent and inhumane secular avatars can no longer be ignored.




Blurb


In Revolution from Above, Dr. Bolton demonstrates that the supposed rivalry between Marxist-inspired movements and capitalism has always been an illusion. Marxism, Communism and liberalism have been and continue to be exploited by the forces of international capitalism to further their global agenda, despite their surface disagreements. Dr. Bolton shows that the ultimate goal of capitalism is to create a worldwide collectivist society of consumers, and Marxism is merely one means of attaining this. He traces this idea back to Plato, through the Illuminati, the Freemasons, the French Revolution, and Communism, and examines the evidence for the existence of a shadowy network of bankers who control a large portion of the world's political and economic power. He then discusses the various instruments this network uses to maintain control, such as tax-exempt foundations and think tanks. Dr. Bolton also reveals how capitalist governments actually worked closely with Communist regimes and, in fact, frustrated genuinely anti-Communist efforts during the Cold War. He discusses the impact this has had on Western society, resulting in such trends as the sexual revolution and the promotion of drug use. Dr. Bolton then brings us up-to-date by discussing the role of the recent "Arab spring" in these ongoing developments. One will never be able to view modern history the same way again after reading Dr. Bolton's arguments and examining the supporting evidence.



Having said that we have to look at ourselves, we can blame others but in the end we have to look ourselves in the mirror and realise that a lot of our failures are our own. We know something bad is happening but we've not found a successful way to overcome yet. We have to do better.

Its not new, China went through its century of humiliation when it was the plaything of western (and other) powers they eventually managed to free themselves and restore their dignity (at great cost).



Its a partial view, but we can learn from it.

I honestly think Muslims need to come together and discuss our problems openly and frankly and authentic Muslims please not those who have sold their souls to the American dollar.

Meanwhile we have to be on guard, times are dark and were going to have to 'get hard' if were going to survive.
Reply

Scimitar
03-21-2018, 11:41 PM
i've got some very interesting lectures to edit, they'll be up soon... here's a special screening of the first one (the video releases officially on Friday in sh'Allah, more will follow in the coming months) !!!

Reply

AllahIsAl-Malik
03-23-2018, 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
i've got some very interesting lectures to edit, they'll be up soon... here's a special screening of the first one (the video releases officially on Friday in sh'Allah, more will follow in the coming months) !!!


Thank you for posting that. Imran Hosein is always coming up with great stuff. You are a very vigilant citizen.
Reply

Scimitar
03-31-2018, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by AllahIsAl-Malik
vigilant citizen.
‎السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمُ

Interesting choice of words. Have we exchanged words online before?

here is the Q&A section for the video quote posted above:

Reply

anatolian
03-31-2018, 02:47 PM
According him, America britain ısrael triangle is the dajjal. But the ahadith tell us that the dajjal is a specific person. Your thougjts?
Reply

Scimitar
03-31-2018, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
According him, America britain ısrael triangle is the dajjal. But the ahadith tell us that the dajjal is a specific person. Your thougjts?
‎السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمُ

Shaikh Imran Hosein’s analysis is better explained in his books! What you see of him in lectures is only the cherry and icing... the cake (substance) is in the books he has authored (الحمد لله I have signed copies).





but to answer your question bro Anatolian, I’ll say this:

the shaikh theorises that when dajjal’s day like a year was in process - the world was ruled from Great Britain. When the day like a month was in process - the world was being ruled from the USA. And that when the day like a week is in process it will be ruled from the Holy Land of Israel - after which 37 days like our days remain in which dajjal will be a physical manifestation of a man in this world - and in that time he will cause an havoc the likes of which have never been witnessed before by humanity.

I advise getting his new book, Dajjal, the Quran and Awwal al Zamaan - he is in the process of writing 5 books in total on the topic of dajjal - so if it’s easy convenient answers you are looking for, you won’t get them. This study requires “study”!!!
Reply

Umm♥Layth
04-02-2018, 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
‎السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمُ

Shaikh Imran Hosein’s analysis is better explained in his books! What you see of him in lectures is only the cherry and icing... the cake (substance) is in the books he has authored (الحمد لله I have signed copies).





but to answer your question bro Anatolian, I’ll say this:

the shaikh theorises that when dajjal’s day like a year was in process - the world was ruled from Great Britain. When the day like a month was in process - the world was being ruled from the USA. And that when the day like a week is in process it will be ruled from the Holy Land of Israel - after which 37 days like our days remain in which dajjal will be a physical manifestation of a man in this world - and in that time he will cause an havoc the likes of which have never been witnessed before by humanity.

I advise getting his new book, Dajjal, the Quran and Awwal al Zamaan - he is in the process of writing 5 books in total on the topic of dajjal - so if it’s easy convenient answers you are looking for, you won’t get them. This study requires “study”!!!
It's been years since I've read his work, but I only ever read the PDF's. Where can I get his actual books? I don't see them on his website.
Reply

Scimitar
04-02-2018, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
It's been years since I've read his work, but I only ever read the PDF's. Where can I get his actual books? I don't see them on his website.
I also read his works firstly as PDF books, until recently when I was filming his lectures in London and had the opportunity to buy his books in paperback. Alhamdulillah. He's published a few new ones since then.

Just been on his site, and you're right, I followed the "buy" tab and it turned up a 404 error. So his store is closed for some reason. In sh'Allah I will be meeting him tonight for his farewell meal before he flies out to Trinidad, and will raise the question in person - and then report his answer here for you in sh'Allah.

I hope this helps!
Reply

Umm♥Layth
04-02-2018, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I also read his works firstly as PDF books, until recently when I was filming his lectures in London and had the opportunity to buy his books in paperback. Alhamdulillah. He's published a few new ones since then.

Just been on his site, and you're right, I followed the "buy" tab and it turned up a 404 error. So his store is closed for some reason. In sh'Allah I will be meeting him tonight for his farewell meal before he flies out to Trinidad, and will raise the question in person - and then report his answer here for you in sh'Allah.

I hope this helps!
I'd be very grateful if you could get an answer for me. The website for the person who made Imran Hosein's website is down, so I'm guessing he doesn't have anyone to run his website (and therefore his bookstore) at the moment. http://www.imranhosein.org/component...ing-books.html
Reply

Scimitar
04-02-2018, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
I'd be very grateful if you could get an answer for me. The website for the person who made Imran Hosein's website is down, so I'm guessing he doesn't have anyone to run his website (and therefore his bookstore) at the moment. http://www.imranhosein.org/component...ing-books.html
Ok, so I spoke to the shaikh today after our farewell meal and asked him about how one may purchase his books online, as his "buy" page on his www.imranhosein.org website was not working. He informed me that he has a separate website for those who want to buy his books, it is www.imranhosein.com ... it is down at the moment. I informed the shaikh that the site was down, but he assured me that it will be up and running again soon in sh'Allah.

So, that's it really. You can order his books from www.imranhosein.com once the site is working again.

i hope this helps in sh'Allah
Reply

Umm♥Layth
04-02-2018, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Ok, so I spoke to the shaikh today after our farewell meal and asked him about how one may purchase his books online, as his "buy" page on his www.imranhosein.org website was not working. He informed me that he has a separate website for those who want to buy his books, it is www.imranhosein.com ... it is down at the moment. I informed the shaikh that the site was down, but he assured me that it will be up and running again soon in sh'Allah.

So, that's it really. You can order his books from www.imranhosein.com once the site is working again.

i hope this helps in sh'Allah
Jazzaak Allah Khair!
Reply

AllahIsAl-Malik
04-03-2018, 12:33 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
‎السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمُ

Shaikh Imran Hosein’s analysis is better explained in his books! What you see of him in lectures is only the cherry and icing... the cake (substance) is in the books he has authored (الحمد لله I have signed copies).





but to answer your question bro Anatolian, I’ll say this:

the shaikh theorises that when dajjal’s day like a year was in process - the world was ruled from Great Britain. When the day like a month was in process - the world was being ruled from the USA. And that when the day like a week is in process it will be ruled from the Holy Land of Israel - after which 37 days like our days remain in which dajjal will be a physical manifestation of a man in this world - and in that time he will cause an havoc the likes of which have never been witnessed before by humanity.

I advise getting his new book, Dajjal, the Quran and Awwal al Zamaan - he is in the process of writing 5 books in total on the topic of dajjal - so if it’s easy convenient answers you are looking for, you won’t get them. This study requires “study”!!!
I second this whole-heartedly! I have been reading his book on Surah Al Kahf....

it is a book that has made me excited both for Allah's Surah and honestly has rekindled my love for reading. I feel like a young child again, first falling in love with reading and with learning. Scimitar that you have been in contact with him makes me almost jealous. I wish I could talk to him and tell him how wonderful his stuff is. I am a huge, enthusiastic fan of his work and am always eager to praise his noble and bold work. He certainly gives one food for thought! He also is great in making one excited about our religion. I love his work and I admire his deep faith and bold defense of our Islamic deen and values against the attacks being made against our religion. May Allah bless that noble man. I recommend his work to anyone reading this.

I am almost jealous that you have autographed copies.

Also, Scimitar yes I think we have talked before. I certainly used a choice of words deliberately. I respected you already based on what I had already seen from you in defense of our faith. I am amazed that you know that imminent man of learning- it is amazing who you can run into. If you know me, you would know me under another name and for privacy reasons I do not disclose it here and ask that we keep privacy regarding what we know in that area. I have tried to PM you to give you details in that subject so that you can know. However, I was not allowed to PM you because of less than 25 posts. As soon as I reach 25 posts, insha'Allah I will PM you and tell you what you may be curious to know as far as answering your question.
Reply

anatolian
04-03-2018, 04:24 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
‎السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمُ

Shaikh Imran Hosein’s analysis is better explained in his books! What you see of him in lectures is only the cherry and icing... the cake (substance) is in the books he has authored (الحمد لله I have signed copies).





but to answer your question bro Anatolian, I’ll say this:

the shaikh theorises that when dajjal’s day like a year was in process - the world was ruled from Great Britain. When the day like a month was in process - the world was being ruled from the USA. And that when the day like a week is in process it will be ruled from the Holy Land of Israel - after which 37 days like our days remain in which dajjal will be a physical manifestation of a man in this world - and in that time he will cause an havoc the likes of which have never been witnessed before by humanity.

I advise getting his new book, Dajjal, the Quran and Awwal al Zamaan - he is in the process of writing 5 books in total on the topic of dajjal - so if it’s easy convenient answers you are looking for, you won’t get them. This study requires “study”!!!
Aleykum Salaam. Yes ofcourse he should have explained it better in his books. I would love read one if I have the opportunity. He seems to have a different interpretation of the ahadith. I need his methodology. Because I dont think the world is ever going to be ruled from Israel. It has never been ruled from completely Britain or America either but I think the center of the western power will move from America to Britain again in near future. Brexit seems to be a part of this plan.

I also dont agree his views regarding the Ottoman Khalifa. He says that the Turks had no right to move the Khilafah from the Arabic hard lands to Turkey. This has no basis in Islam.
Reply

Scimitar
04-03-2018, 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Aleykum Salaam. Yes ofcourse he should have explained it better in his books. I would love read one if I have the opportunity.
You have to read one of his books before you can suggest "he should have explained it better in his books" and admittedly, you have not read one yet!

Originally Posted by anatolian
He seems to have a different interpretation of the ahadith.
No. You are wrong. In fact, he is no fan of hadeeth which contradict the Qur'an. I was going to suggest you read his book "the methodology for the study of the Qur'an" but you did write the following:

Originally Posted by anatolian
I need his methodology.
I agree. Because you are making straw men!

Originally Posted by anatolian
Because I dont think the world is ever going to be ruled from Israel. It has never been ruled from completely Britain or America either
You're missing the point - the idea is that those nations held the seat of power for set periods in history in which they dictated the status quo for the rest of the world! It's not hard to digest, but you are coming across like a literalist, and do not display any signs of lateral and nuanced thinking. My advice to you is, to champion your own understanding by recognizing that there are no simple answers to questions which involve exposing "deception". the very nature of deception itself is to hide the truth. Truth claims have to be evidenced, and not accepted dogmatically.

Originally Posted by anatolian
but I think the center of the western power will move from America to Britain again in near future. Brexit seems to be a part of this plan.
Without any due reasoning, you've told me what you think without any presented evidence. This is not the way to make a point. It's a very dogmatic play on subjectivity. You need to really make a case for anything you "think" will be true, instead of just claiming "I think" without citing evidences which build the case for your theory.

Originally Posted by anatolian
I also dont agree his views regarding the Ottoman Khalifa. He says that the Turks had no right to move the Khilafah from the Arabic hard lands to Turkey. This has no basis in Islam.
Actually, he doesn't say that at all. You keep building straw men. This is bad practice.

What the shaikh says is that the khalipha should never have taken Hagia Sophia and turned it into a masjid, where in the Qur'an and sunnah are we allowed to do this by force? Nowhere. He also makes a point about the disgusting janissary system which the Ottoman Khilafa practiced, again, where does it say in the Qu'ran and Sunnah that this form of oppression is justified? In fact - where does it mention in the Qur'an and Sunnah that any form of oppression is justified? You need to stop your straw mans brother. And do some actual research.

Peace
Reply

anatolian
04-08-2018, 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
You have to read one of his books before you can suggest "he should have explained it better in his books" and admittedly, you have not read one yet!
Maybe I made a language mistake here I don know. I did not sugest anything. You said that what is there in his lectures is only a cream but the essence is in his books and I agreed you. I believe there must be more info in his books about his opinions normally. This must not be something hard to understand


Originally Posted by Scimitar
No. You are wrong. In fact, he is no fan of hadeeth which contradict the Qur'an. I was going to suggest you read his book "the methodology for the study of the Qur'an" but you did write the following:



I agree. Because you are making straw men!
You have a major misunderstanding problem. Who is a straw man here? I did not say he is a fan of the ahadith which contradict Quran. I just said he obviously have a different methodology of interpretation of the escatological ahadith. I did not say anything regarding Quran. But yeah maybe I can understand his methadology better after reading one of his books.



Originally Posted by Scimitar
You're missing the point - the idea is that those nations held the seat of power for set periods in history in which they dictated the status quo for the rest of the world! It's not hard to digest, but you are coming across like a literalist, and do not display any signs of lateral and nuanced thinking. My advice to you is, to champion your own understanding by recognizing that there are no simple answers to questions which involve exposing "deception". the very nature of deception itself is to hide the truth. Truth claims have to be evidenced, and not accepted dogmatically.



Without any due reasoning, you've told me what you think without any presented evidence. This is not the way to make a point. It's a very dogmatic play on subjectivity. You need to really make a case for anything you "think" will be true, instead of just claiming "I think" without citing evidences which build the case for your theory.
Because I did not intend to prove anything but just simply expressed my point. Some European empires (British, French, Spanish etc) held the seat of power including Britain though,it was not the sole power. America passed all and now represent the old Roman Empire however there is still the eastern union against them. I have a similiar theory with him regarding this historical formation of changing powers but there are also points I strongly disagree with him. As for Israel..Today Israel has power only because of 9 millions Jews ruling in America. Otherwise they could not live any further. They are in the middle of Muslims and it cannot be a safe place for anti-Islam to rule from. If there is going to be a centre of anti-Islam it cannot be a place other than the centre of the west. Thats the simple logic behind what "I think". If you want more reasoning, that requires a comlpete thread. I can do it later. However in this thread I am just expressing my opinions and neither I am in a position to prove you it nor you have to believe in me. So I am completely free to say "I think"



Originally Posted by Scimitar
Actually, he doesn't say that at all. You keep building straw men. This is bad practice.
No he says that in one of the lectures I saw in YT but I could not find it again unfortunately. Keep searching..

Originally Posted by Scimitar
What the shaikh says is that the khalipha should never have taken Hagia Sophia and turned it into a masjid, where in the Qur'an and sunnah are we allowed to do this by force? Nowhere. He also makes a point about the disgusting janissary system which the Ottoman Khilafa practiced, again, where does it say in the Qu'ran and Sunnah that this form of oppression is justified? In fact - where does it mention in the Qur'an and Sunnah that any form of oppression is justified? You need to stop your straw mans brother. And do some actual research.

Peace
He also sounds prety anti-Turkist when he refers to Ottoman Empire as an "evil" Empire when talking about the conquest of Istanbul but interestingly he refers to them as the Ottoman Islamic Empire when talkig about Atatürk's aboloshing the Khilafat. He then starts to bash Atatürk.

Jannisary system, slavery system etc can be disscused as a complteley different topic. I condemn the sinful actions of the Ottoman Empire too. I am not agree with everything they have done. However, Imran Hussein's excessive condemnation of them just tells me that he is not sincere enough in his theories. Maybe he is doing that to please his friends, Russians.
Reply

Junon
04-09-2018, 07:47 PM
Salaam

I like Shaikh Imran Hosein but I don't agree with him on certain points, particularly on Russia. Putin looks out only for Russias interests, which is fine that's what states do.

Blurb

When German journalists asked the very simplistic question on whether Putin considered himself a friend or a foe to the West- he answered neither. There is the simple concept of national interests, which may or may not be at odds with other countries. Diplomacy is the art of being able to reconcile your national interests, alongside those of other States, compromising on certain aspects along the way. However, the Atlanticist world view (EU/US/NATO) has shown not to allow for mutual respect, nor for cooperation. Through a number of covert means, they ask for nothing less than for Russia to no longer ascertain its national interests,



Unless I misinterpreted what hes trying to say.
Reply

JustTime
04-09-2018, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
‎السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمُ

Interesting choice of words. Have we exchanged words online before?

here is the Q&A section for the video quote posted above:

Imran Hosein is a Kafr
Reply

Futuwwa
04-09-2018, 10:33 PM
The OP is not a request for thoughts. It's a barely substantiated statement trying to disguise itself as a request for thoughts.

The oppression and humiliation started way before, it didn't require the downfall of the Caliphate to happen. During the hundred years before, the Ottoman Empire repeatedly lost territory in Europe. Almost every time, the outcome was a purging of Muslims from the territory. A cumulative five to ten million Muslims were either killed or expelled during the time.
Reply

JustTime
04-09-2018, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam

I like Shaikh Imran Hosein but I don't agree with him on certain points, particularly on Russia. Putin looks out only for Russias interests, which is fine that's what states do.

Blurb

When German journalists asked the very simplistic question on whether Putin considered himself a friend or a foe to the West- he answered neither. There is the simple concept of national interests, which may or may not be at odds with other countries. Diplomacy is the art of being able to reconcile your national interests, alongside those of other States, compromising on certain aspects along the way. However, the Atlanticist world view (EU/US/NATO) has shown not to allow for mutual respect, nor for cooperation. Through a number of covert means, they ask for nothing less than for Russia to no longer ascertain its national interests,



Unless I misinterpreted what hes trying to say.
No it isn't fine that Putin looks out for Russia, people like to utter things about Hitler but when it comes to Putin even his opponents in western media refer to him as "Mister Putin" or "President Putin", Wallahi this "man" should be referred to as nothing but the worst of names, he will be humiliated greatly on the day of judgement and will have to answer for this and no one will save him not even himself and when Allah asks him why he murdered hundreds of thousands of Muslims across the world and waged war on Islam and his only answer is "To serve Russia" Allah will cast him to the most gruesome of punishments, I sincerely ask Allah to create a pit in hellfire worse than the rest specifically for Putin, Assad, and the Murtadeen and Rawafida who support them where their stomachs are roasted and they are humiliated relentlessly and tortured without mercy or compassion for every last spec of dust created by their cluster bombs and barrel bombs, and that Allah may make them suffer a pain a thousand times worse than the pain of every Muslim they have murdered.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Futuwwa
The OP is not a request for thoughts. It's a barely substantiated statement trying to disguise itself as a request for thoughts.

The oppression and humiliation started way before, it didn't require the downfall of the Caliphate to happen. During the hundred years before, the Ottoman Empire repeatedly lost territory in Europe. Almost every time, the outcome was a purging of Muslims from the territory. A cumulative five to ten million Muslims were either killed or expelled during the time.
The Ottoman state was within itself humiliating

- - - Updated - - -

Abu Dhar said, "I was with the Prophet (SAW) one day and I heard him saing: "There is something I fear for my Ummah than the Dajjal." It was then that I became afraid, so I said: " Oh Rasool Allah! Which thing is that?" He :saws1: said; "Misguided and astray scholars."

Recorded in Musnad Imam Ahmad (no.21,334 and no.21,335). Sheikh Shu'ayb al Arna'ut graded it sahih li ghayri (authentic due to corroborating narrations) in his tahqiq of the Musnad (1999 ed., 35:21,296-97.)
Reply

AllahIsAl-Malik
04-10-2018, 09:12 AM
Originally Posted by JustTime
Imran Hosein is a Kafr
what? why?

I like him.
Reply

Scimitar
04-10-2018, 05:29 PM
There will be more videos of Shaikh Imran Hosein releasing in the near future on Dawah Digital in sh'Allah.

As for those who claim he is a kafir (namely some random named JustTime https://www.islamicboard.com/members/42224.html) - they've made takfir on someone without proof of his leaving Islam - and so - the claim is returned to the layman who made such a claim.

For more information: https://islamqa.info/en/85102 @JustTime
Reply

JustTime
04-10-2018, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
There will be more videos of Shaikh Imran Hosein releasing in the near future on Dawah Digital in sh'Allah.

As for those who claim he is a kafir (namely some random named JustTime https://www.islamicboard.com/members/42224.html) - they've made takfir on someone without proof of his leaving Islam - and so - the claim is returned to the layman who made such a claim.

For more information: https://islamqa.info/en/85102 @JustTime

- - - Updated - - -

There will be more videos of Shaikh Imran Hosein releasing in the near future on Dawah Digital in sh'Allah.

As for those who claim he is a kafir (namely some random named JustTime https://www.islamicboard.com/members/42224.html) - they've made takfir on someone without proof of his leaving Islam - and so - the claim is returned to the layman who made such a claim.

For more information: https://islamqa.info/en/85102 @JustTime
I can provide plenty of evidence, Wallahi
Reply

Scimitar
04-10-2018, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by JustTime
I can provide plenty of evidence, Wallahi
You're already a kafir for making takfir, so why should I listen to you? ;) why should anyone! You are ridiculing a shaikh and you are an anonymous slandering troll on the web! Know your place!

https://islamqa.info/en/85102 <that's what happens when you make takfir, and you made takfir! The claim is returned to you! You are thus, unworthy of any opinion due to your takfiri nature!!!
Reply

JustTime
04-10-2018, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
You're already a kafir for making takfir, so why should I listen to you? ;) why should anyone! You are ridiculing a shaikh and you are an anonymous slandering troll on the web! Know your place!

https://islamqa.info/en/85102 <that's what happens when you make takfir, and you made takfir! The claim is returned to you! You are thus, unworthy of any opinion due to your takfiri nature!!!
The fact your aren't even interested in evidence from the Quran and Sunnah proves that you have issues with Fiqh and Aqeedah which is why you listen to Kufar like Imran, and just because he is a "Sheikh" means nothing in light of the Quran and Sunnah.
Reply

Misbah-Abd
04-11-2018, 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by AllahIsAl-Malik
what? why?

I like him.
He has some strange ideas that contradict established beliefs of Ahlus Sunnah wa Jamaah, or just strange beliefs in general.
Reply

JustTime
04-11-2018, 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
He has some strange ideas that contradict established beliefs of Ahlus Sunnah wa Jamaah, or just strange beliefs in general.
The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is reported to have said, “Islam began as something strange and will return to [being] something strange just as [it was] in the beginning, so glad tidings to the strangers” - Sahih Muslim

Ibn Majah narrated that it was asked, “Who are the strangers?” The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) responded, “Those (few) who left their tribes (for Islam)” - Ibn Majah

Live in this world as though you are a stranger or a wayfarer” - Sahih Bukhari
Reply

AllahIsAl-Malik
04-11-2018, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by JustTime
The fact your aren't even interested in evidence from the Quran and Sunnah proves that you have issues with Fiqh and Aqeedah which is why you listen to Kufar like Imran, and just because he is a "Sheikh" means nothing in light of the Quran and Sunnah.
I am interested in your evidence. What is your evidence?
Reply

JustTime
04-11-2018, 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by AllahIsAl-Malik
I am interested in your evidence. What is your evidence?
I'll reply to this soon :ia:
Reply

Misbah-Abd
04-11-2018, 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by JustTime
The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is reported to have said, “Islam began as something strange and will return to [being] something strange just as [it was] in the beginning, so glad tidings to the strangers” - Sahih Muslim

Ibn Majah narrated that it was asked, “Who are the strangers?” The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) responded, “Those (few) who left their tribes (for Islam)” - Ibn Majah

Live in this world as though you are a stranger or a wayfarer” - Sahih Bukhari
That is not the strangeness that I was talking about. And the strangeness in the hadith speaks about those few who follow the Sunnah of Prophet s.a.a.w.
Reply

azc
04-11-2018, 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by JustTime
The fact your aren't even interested in evidence from the Quran and Sunnah proves that you have issues with Fiqh and Aqeedah which is why you listen to Kufar like Imran, and just because he is a "Sheikh" means nothing in light of the Quran and Sunnah.
Bro, why you label everyone as kafir who do you disagree with...?
Reply

Junon
04-12-2018, 12:29 AM
Salaam

Originally Posted by azc
Bro, why you label everyone as kafir who do you disagree with...?
Yes, its this kind of thinking that holds us back from having fruitful discussions. I understand its a passionate issue but we have to stop with this automatic knee-jerk response denouncing those whom we disagree with.
Reply

Junon
04-13-2018, 09:25 PM
Salaam

Originally Posted by anatolian
I too believe that we have been living the end times since WW1. That war was the practical collapse of the caliphate. We are just living it in advanced degree for the last a few decades. So, humalation only comes by your allowance of it. No one can humilate you unless you let them to do so. All those fitna ocured in the past and currently going on allowed the evils to humilate Muslims world wide.

I dislike Erdoğan and his political movement but one of the few things he did good was to put an end to the humilation of religious people by the secular elits here in Turkey. This is the main reason of their long term rule. Regardless of their bad habits religious people go on to vote them since they have realized that they have the same rights as seculars. But a deception is also going on in parralel. Now those elected "Muslims" are fooling people.

The above example applies to all Muslim lands I guess. Weakness allows the humilation and ignorance allows the deception. When Muslims defeat the weakness and ignorance then we can achieve salvation in this world.
Wise words brother, wise words

Christian perspective, quite similar to what your saying.

Reply

Junon
04-15-2018, 11:21 PM
Salaam

This is controversial but like to share, to stimulate discussion.

Reply

M.I.A.
04-16-2018, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Assalaam alaikum bros and sisters.

Since the khilafat fell - we've been humiliated beyond the scope of imagination... I'm trying to understand the depth of this humiliation but i'm overwhelmed by it - I see the current generation of Muslims and think to myself "we don't need further humiliation, we're doing fine by our selves in that department."

If you are interested in this topic, then please contribute your thoughts on the ways we have been humiliated and oppressed in the world as Muslims over the past 100 years.

Suqoon: Every century Allah will send a champion to revive Islam - I believe we are in the last hour of time now - and to me that means the next reviver will be the Qaim - al Mahdi AS.

Your thoughts about the various manifestations of humiliation and oppression are welcome in this thread in sh'Allah. Please provide references and links to the data you source from thank you and JazakAllahu khair for reading.

Scimi
Imo if you know your standing trial then you have to be on your best behaviour.

Its too late to be heedless of punishment because your ignorance can no longer save you.

The realisation comes to people at some point in life..

How we approach the opposition is very much a test of who we were.

And who the authority is with becomes very apparent.

I can't be as easily dismissive of today's generation as you are.

..to my own dismay, the rebuttle carries too much weight..

Its been years and I still hear it.

But if it's been years and they still hear you, then you have nothing to worry about.

..i just don't want to slip anymore.. so i won't intentionally.

And when they say, we have done everything today.

I know that i no longer can.
Reply

rebelutionary
04-22-2018, 03:17 AM
I always wondered why the Ottomans were called the caliph, like who appointed them? was there a referendum?

The mughals of India ruled over a much larger muslim population! The british even used to taunt the ottomans that they rule over muslims than the caliph, so how is his title even justified?
Reply

Futuwwa
04-24-2018, 09:40 AM
Originally Posted by rebelutionary
I always wondered why the Ottomans were called the caliph, like who appointed them? was there a referendum?

The mughals of India ruled over a much larger muslim population! The british even used to taunt the ottomans that they rule over muslims than the caliph, so how is his title even justified?
Sultan Mehmed II claimed the Caliphate in 1453 on the basis of having conquered Constantinople, as prophesized in the Hadith. Later, after Sultan Selim I conquered Egypt, the last nominal (as in, hadn't actually ruled during the last two and a half centuries) Abbasid Caliph Al-Mutawakkil III handed over caliphal authority to him.

So yeah, by conquering a city and by capturing and shaking down a guy who had previously been recognized as caliph ;D
Reply

anatolian
04-24-2018, 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by rebelutionary
I always wondered why the Ottomans were called the caliph, like who appointed them? was there a referendum?

The mughals of India ruled over a much larger muslim population! The british even used to taunt the ottomans that they rule over muslims than the caliph, so how is his title even justified?
If you read the history of Islam you will see that both the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates took the title by force, by a coup or revolution. Ottomans were not the first ones who took it by force. Umayyads even killed the members of ahlul Bayt for it. Imam abu Hanifa organized a military coup against the Umayyads considering them illegitimate. The reason of the Ottomans can be justified with the same mentality. Manluks were so weak and arrogant in their last period. The Portugal navy bombarded Jeddah and thretened to invade Mekka and Medina. Ottomans were the most powerful Muslims back then and offered to help the Mamluks with an army but they rejected it out of arrogance. Then Selim I thought it is time to take the control and took the control of the holy land by force
Reply

Junon
04-24-2018, 11:36 AM
Salaam

Originally Posted by anatolian
If you read the history of Islam you will see that both the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates took the title by force, by a coup or revolution. Ottomans were not the first ones who took it by force. Umayyads even killed the members of ahlul Bayt for it. Imam abu Hanifa organized a military coup against the Umayyads considering them illegitimate. The reason of the Ottomans can be justified with the same mentality. Manluks were so weak and arrogant in their last period. The Portugal navy bombarded Jeddah and thretened to invade Mekka and Medina. Ottomans were the most powerful Muslims back then and offered to help the Mamluks with an army but they rejected it out of arrogance. Then Selim I thought it is time to take the control and took the control of the holy land by force
Yes nobody's clean if were being honest about it, we live in this world not a utopia, that's for the next life, though we can always learn from the past and try and make the world a better place (eg. Muslims (whatever our differences) need to reduce fitna between ourselves and work together to create prosperous society, etc).

Ottoman empire lasted till the end, the Mughals defeated by the British way back.
Reply

anatolian
04-24-2018, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam



Yes nobody's clean if were being honest about it, we live in this world not a utopia, that's for the next life, though we can always learn from the past and try and make the world a better place (eg. Muslims (whatever our differences) need to reduce fitna between ourselves and work together to create prosperous society, etc).

Ottoman empire lasted till the end, the Mughals defeated by the British way back.
Islam justifies using force sometimes. The questions are when, by whom and against whom.
Reply

Junon
04-24-2018, 06:12 PM
Salaam

Yes I agree were not pacifists, doesn't mean we go looking for conflict, like you say.
Reply

anatolian
04-24-2018, 07:55 PM
By the way I need to tell I do not condone the murder of Ahlul Bayt by the Umayyads. I just gave it as an example of previous actions.
Reply

Junon
04-27-2018, 08:44 PM
Salaam

An, Arab intellectuals opinion on the problems in the Muslim world. Controversial, agree, disagree?

Blurb

Former Dean of Islamic Law at Qatar University Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari Speaks Out in Support of US Presence in the Middle East. A refreshing and extremely rare admission of reality from the middle east. An arab muslim who unlike the majority concedes that the pathetic state of arabs is down to their own failings and not the fault of anyone else. Among other things Al-Hamid Al-Ansari speaks of the fantasy world arabs seem to inhabit concerning such things as their imaginary victories over Israel and touches on the marginilisation of women in muslim societies.


Reply

Junon
04-29-2018, 11:55 PM
Salaam

More videos and books, to help make sense of the situation we are in.

First of more on how the globalists operate.



You might be surprised to realise that many globalists engage in occult practices.

The Occult & Subversive Movements: Tradition & Counter-Tradition in the Struggle for World Power

Blurb

‘Conspiracy theory’ is now a widely familiar term, albeit generally referred to with sarcasm and scorn. Yet ‘criminal conspiracies’ are heard before law courts. The Mafia, the Thuggee in India, and Triads in China are all recognised criminal conspiracies that have ritualistic and religious elements.

During the Cold War there were government investigations into a ‘communist conspiracy’. President Dwight Eisenhower in his ‘Farewell Address’ referred to a wide-ranging conspiracy he called the ‘military-industrial complex’. However, if political conspiracies are referred to that involve secret societies such as Freemasonry, the suggestion is met with derision. The situation is not helped when there are ‘conspiracy theorists’ who make outlandish claims and fail to support their allegations with reliable sources.

In 'The Occult and Subversive Movements' Dr. Kerry Bolton applies scholarly methodology, in layman’s terms, to the question of conspiracies and the occult. Belief in magic, mysticism and the supernatural are unnecessary. What is relevant is that such notions are acted on by those who do believe them. Bolton uses reliable sources to marshal the evidence that there are occult initiates who have for centuries been fomenting revolutions, and using materialistic, rationalistic and communistic ideologies that appear contrary to occultism.

Bolton examines the lineage of occult societies, occult doctrines of power conflict, the role of occult societies in revolutions, the undermining of traditional religions in pursuit of a one-world ‘syncretic religion’, the use of the United Nations and the European Union, and the centuries’ old dream of rebuilding the Temple of Solomon as the centre of a universal republic. Dr. Bolton understands the power of conspiracy and secrecy in history. All readers, from all traditions, will find this book worthy of attention






What created our current predicament, well this is one of the best primers to understanding.

A Peace to End All Peace, 20th Anniversary Edition: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East


Blurb

The Middle East has long been a region of rival religions, ideologies, nationalisms, and ambitions. All of these conflicts—including the hostilities between Arabs and Israelis, and the violent challenges posed by Iraq’s competing sects—are rooted in the region’s political inheritance: the arrangements, unities, and divisions imposed by the Allies after the First World War.

In A Peace to End All Peace, David Fromkin reveals how and why the Allies drew lines on an empty map that remade the geography and politics of the Middle East. Focusing on the formative years of 1914 to 1922, when all seemed possible, he delivers in this sweeping and magisterial book the definitive account of this defining time, showing how the choices narrowed and the Middle East began along a road that led to the conflicts and confusion that continue to this day.

A new afterword from Fromkin, written for this edition of the book, includes his invaluable, updated assessment of this region of the world today, and on what this history has to teach us.




A review

What a fine mess

By Ulrik Jungersen Waltheron

If you want to put the Middle East into a historical perspective and understand its present day difficulties there is no better book than this, and despite being 20 years old, it still stands completely unrivaled. It is insightful, well balanced, eloquently written and at times almost reads like an adventure story.

The book covers the region from the outbreak of war in 1914 and through to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in 1922. Fromkin gets away with covering this enormous canvas on which many books could be written on single topics (and indeed have). He does this by following a clear story line, not over emphasizing certain periods and by not peddling a political agenda.

The book is essentially built around Winston Churchill large sections are also devoted to other contemporary grandees such as Asquith, Lloyd George, Balfour, Lord Kitchener, General Allenby, Sir Mark Sykes, Francois Picot, Emir Hussein, King Faisal, Enver Pasha, Attaturk, TE Lawrence, Gertrude Bell and many other splendid characters. These people are richly described and make the book come alive in a way, where most other popular history books fail miserably.

The book also elegantly incorporates the imperial political thinking of the time and provides excellent coverage of the drivers and motivations of specially the British in their involvement in the conflict. It covers the intrigues, manipulations and conspirations that took place both within the British government and between the allies, whose main goal it was to dismantle the Ottoman Empire, weakened by gradual disintegration, carve up its constituent parts between them. The Sykes-Picot Agreement and the Balfour Declaration being excellent examples hereof. One is left with the impression that this was a game of "Risk" on a massive scale. In fact on such a large scale that it stretched the British Empire beyond its political and military means, which again resulted in appalling execution with extraordinary and needless loss of life.

The price of these ambitions proved high for all parties. The Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1922 and Enver Pasha died on a battlefield near Dushanbe in Tajikstan fighting the Red Army in 1924. But also for the British Empire, this was the "beginning of the end". Australia began to lose confidence in Britain following the Gallipoli disaster, after years of fighting hopeless battles in Europe, Iraq and Turkey, British soldiers increasingly became mutinous and were turning against the establishment. In his description of this period, Fromkin really picks up on the political current of the time and describes how Churchill understood this and probably avoided severe social unrest in the UK.

The book effectively finishes with the 1923 Lausanne peace treaty. Britain had been replaced by the United States as the world's number one superpower. The US did not favour colonialism and hence the Sykes-Picot Agreement was confined to the historical archives. Instead Churchill and Gertrude Bell drew up a map of a new Middle East, created Palestine (under British mandate) and Syria / Lebanon under French. Feisal needed a kingdom, so they created Iraq. If Feisal was getting a kingdom, Abdullah wanted one too. So they drew Jordan. It was random, sure to create problems for the future and by no stretch of anyones imagination "their finest hour".

The book draws on a superb range of sources, is extremely well researched and has a bibliography large enough to populate a small library.
Reply

Alamgir
04-30-2018, 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by rebelutionary
I always wondered why the Ottomans were called the caliph, like who appointed them? was there a referendum?

The mughals of India ruled over a much larger muslim population! The british even used to taunt the ottomans that they rule over muslims than the caliph, so how is his title even justified?
The Mughals didn't control the holiest cities of Islam, nor did they control any major Islamic cities other than Lahore, Agra and Delhi, which only became significant because of the Mughals.
Reply

Junon
05-01-2018, 12:52 AM
Salaam

Like to share and inform, and for Muslim Brothers and Sisters to learn the lessons of history.

Extract from A Peace to End All Peace - Chpt 10

Kitchener sets out to capture Islam

The West and the Middle East have misunderstood each other throughout most of the twentieth century; and much of that misunderstanding can be traced back to Lord Kitchener’s initiatives in the early years of the First World War. The peculiarities of his character, the deficiencies of his understanding of the Moslem world, the misinformation regularly supplied to him by his lieutenants in Cairo and Khartoum, and his choice of Arab politicians with whom to deal have coloured the course of political events ever since.

To appreciate the novelty of Kitchener’s approach to the Middle East, it must be remembered that when the Ottoman Empire entered the First World War, Asquith, Grey, and Churchill did not intend to retaliate by seizing any of its domains for Britain. They did propose to allow Britain’s allies to make territorial gains in Europe and Asia Minor at Turkeys expense; but Asquiths Britain had no territorial designs of her own on Ottoman lands, either in the Middle East or elsewhere. Kitchener, however, maintained that when the war was over, it was in Britain’s vital interest to seize much of the Ottoman Empire for herself: the Arabic speaking part. This would mean a total reversal of Britain’s traditional policy.

Kitchener, like most Britions who had lived in the East, believed that in the Moslem religion counts for everything. But the Field Marshall and his colleagues in Cairo and Khartoum mistakenly seemed to believe that Mohammedanism was a centralised authoritarian structure. They regarded Islam as a single entity: as an ‘it’, as an organisation. The believed that it obeyed its leaders. Centuries before, Cortez has won control of Mexico by seizing the Aztec emperor; and medieval French kings had tried to control Christendom by keeping the pope captive in Avignon. In much the same spirit, Kitchener and his colleagues believed that Islam could be bought manipulated, or captured by buying, manipulating, or capturing its religious leadership. They were intrigued by the notion that whoever controlled the person of the Caliph – Mohammeds successor – controlled Islam.

Central to Kitchener’s analysis was the contention that the Caliph might hurl Islam against Britain. Since Sunni Moslems (who predominated in Mohammedan India) regarded the Turkish Sultan as a Caliph, Kitchener perceived this as a continuing threat. In Cairo and Khartoum it was believed that, as of 1914, the Caliph had fallen into the hands of Jews and German; the war Minister worried that once the world war was won, the Caliph might become a tool in the hands of Britain’s Middle East rivals, particularly Russia.

In enemy hands, the caliphate could be used (Kitchener believed) to undermine Britain’s position in India, Egypt, and the Sudan. Britain ruled over half of the worlds Moslems. In India alone there were almost seventy million of them, and Mohammedans constituted a disportionately large part of the Indian Army. In Egypt and the Sudan, Britain ruled millions more, who lived alongside the Suez Canal sea road to India. Tiny Britain’s garrisons policed these tens of millions of natives, but Kitchener knew that they could not even begin to deal with a revolt.

The British imagination was haunted by the Indian Mutiny (1857-9), the mysterious uprising, incited by religion, that had brought down the rule of the East India Company. More recently the uprising in the Sudan, which Kitchener had so brilliantly avenged, was inspired by a new religious leader whoc himself the Mahdi, a title Europeans translated as ‘Messiah’. Pan-Islamic unrest in Egypt in 1905-06 had caused Britain deep concern. For Kitchener and his entourage, the possibility of a Moslem Holy War against Britain was a recurring nightmare.

The Director of information, John Buchan, dramatized these fears in his 1916 novel Greenmantle, in which Germany makes use of a Moslem prophet in a plot to destroy the British empire. The prophet appears in Turkey; there are portents of his coming; there’s is an ancient prophecy; there’s is a modern revelation; and the region in which he intends to ignite a rebellion is made explicit. ‘There is a dry wind blowing through the East, and the parched grasses wait the spark. And the wind is blowing towards the Indian border.’

Kitchener believed that a call to arms by the Caliph against Britain during the 1914 war could be offset by the words or actions of other Moslem religious leaders. After Britain had won the war, however, more decisive action would be necessary. The reason was that when the war had been won, Russia was sure to take possession of Constantinople and – unless something was done about it – of the Caliph. Kitchener say a German controlled Caliph as merely dangerous – he would attempt to foment unrest in India to throw Britain off balance in the European war. But he saw a Russian controlled Caliph as a mortal danger to the British Empire; for (unlike Asquith and grey) Kitchener believed that Russia still harboured ambitions of taking India away from Britain. In Kitchener’s view, Germany was the enemy of Europe and Russia was the enemy of Asia: the paradox of the 1914 war in which Britain and Russia were allied was that be winning in Europe, Britain risked losing in Asia. The only completely satisfactory outcome of the war, from Kitchener’s point of view, was for Germany to lose it without Russia wining it – and in 1914 it was not clear how that could be accomplished. So the War Minister planned to strike first in the coming postwar struggle with Russia for control of the road to and into India.

Kitchener’s proposal was that, after the war, Britain should arrange for her own nominee to become Caliph. Mohammed had been and Arabian; Kitchener prised to encourage the view that Mohammed’s successors as Caliph should be Arabian too. The advantage of this was the coastline of the Arabian Peninsula could easily be controlled by the British navy; Britain would be able to insulate the Caliph from influence from Britain’s European rivals. Once Britain could install the Caliph within her sphere of influence in Arabia, Kitchener believed she could gain control of Islam. And even before the Ottoman Empire entered the war, Kitchener’s lieutenants in Cairo reminded the War Minister that an obvious candidate to be the Arabian Caliph – the ruler of Mecca – had already been in touch with him.
Reply

Mahir Adnan
05-01-2018, 03:52 PM
last month, on another forum, a brother posted a list of mass killing which had taken place within last 100 years around the Muslim world based on Wikipedia. the list was horrible. I think somebody should recreat the list because the first one was in local language
Reply

Junon
05-08-2018, 10:26 PM
Salaam

Why the enemies of Islam want to undermine it. Insightful.





Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-01-2015, 09:27 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-07-2007, 03:20 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-17-2007, 06:59 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-12-2007, 07:54 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-27-2005, 09:57 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!