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Mustafa16
05-31-2017, 06:00 PM
the event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_T..._d%27%C3%A9tat
the overthrown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Menderes
the overthrower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpars...C3%BCrke%C5%9F

boy, people must have REALLY hated the overthrown....
just look at this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkis...ferendum,_1961

and this, if you dont mind the music for the sake of education.... a song dedicated to the colonel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUvigZ-GJCQ

it translates to: "we are the soldiers of Alparslan Türkeş"

EDIT: here is a tape of the radio address to the nation after the event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31Hvk-f785A


I miss the good ole days.
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Futuwwa
05-31-2017, 07:41 PM
Stuff like that is why Erdogan is on the way to become Sultan now.
Reply

Mustafa16
05-31-2017, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Stuff like that is why Erdogan is on the way to become Sultan now.
Yeah, Islamist nationalists like him always use the 'victim' card.
Reply

Mustafa16
05-31-2017, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Stuff like that is why Erdogan is on the way to become Sultan now.
But word is coming out that the coup was staged, based on media reports and coup plotters' testimony. We might very well see another coup in Turkey backed by the people if word gets out, or even a revolution, civil war, or arrest leading to lynching, assassination, execution, or life imprisonment (EDIT: Of Erdogan)
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Abz2000
05-31-2017, 09:13 PM
Answer: how did David beat goliath? Or was that a rhetorical question? ??

Kam min fi atin qalleelin ghalabat fi atin thatheerin bi idhn Allah?

Sniper Basics For The SHTF Survivalist
Thursday, 30 January 2014 06:54 Brandon Smith

For a long time sniper tactics have been considered by many, even in the military, to be akin to a kind of state designated “murder” rather than a legitimate combat strategy. Only in recent years has sniping achieved a certain level of recognition. Centuries of warfare have passed in which snipers were happily recruited for their skills, and then quickly swept under the rug and forgotten once conflict was over. Daniel Morgan and his crack-shot riflemen were instrumental in America's revolutionary victory over the British. U.S. sharpshooters rained hell down on German troops from over 900 yards during WWI. Snipers have dominated the battlefield in every modern conflagration. Yet, regimented sniping schools were not standardized in the U.S. Army until 1987. All previous schools were abandoned within a few years of their establishment.
Why did it take so long for the sniper to be recognized as essential to victory? Perhaps because snipers are TOO effective, to the point that they become frightening to the establishment.

During the Finnish “Winter War” against the Soviet Union in which they were vastly outnumbered and outgunned, guerrilla tactics, which they called “Motti tactics”, were used to excellent effect. The Finnish devastated the Soviets using hit and run attacks, homemade and improvised weapons, and snipers. The most famous of these snipers was Simo Hayha.

Simo was a common farmer with a diminutive stature of only 5 feet 3 inches tall. His shooting prowess was honed as a hunter in the wilderness of Finland. Simo is credited with over 505 (official) kills, including several teams of Soviet counter-snipers sent specifically to eliminate him. These kills were made during less than 100 days of combat, meaning Hayha engaged and destroyed 5 targets per day by himself. Known as the “White Death”, Simo would finally be removed from the battlefield by a lucky shot from an explosive tipped rifle round to the face while holding off a Soviet advance; he would wake up later in a Finnish hospital at the very end of the war and die of old age in the year 2002.

Simo Hayha proved once and for all the effectiveness of a single shooter in the face of a more powerful opponent. This kind of attrition warfare stopped the more technologically advanced Russians in their tracks, and ended their pursuit of total invasion. The poorly armed Finish prevailed despite all odds.

Sniper training turns a simple rifleman into a weapon of long range mass destruction, which is probably the reason why most governments around the globe have been reluctant until recently to educate more than a handful of soldiers on sniping methods. Hypothetically, a team of snipers could be dangerous enough to topple the political leadership (or oligarchy) of any given nation with nothing more than a few finely tuned rifles and a couple boxes of high caliber rounds.

Governments, fearful of being outdone by such low-tech adversaries, have gone to great lengths in an attempt to negate the sniper as a threat. Night vision, thermal vision, sound detection equipment, gas attacks, white phosphorous attacks, even large scale artillery barrages and laser guided missiles have not been able to stop snipers from remaining as a primary combat tool. Snipers always find a way around existing defenses, no matter how high tech.
This is why sniper techniques are one of the ultimate strategies for self defense of the common citizenry usually disarmed of military grade weaponry.

http://alt-market.com/articles/1970-...tf-survivalist


You have placed a very intelligent question here “What does the strength or power in archery means” in this hadith of Prophet’s - Narrated Uqbah Ibn Amir I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say - and he was delivering a sermon from the pulpit: Prepare to meet them with as much strength as you can afford. Beware, strength consists in archery. Beware, strength consists in archery. Beware, strength consists in archery. [Muslim]

Prophet said:

1) Narrated Uqbah ibn Amir I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say: Allah, Most High, will cause three persons to enter Paradise for one arrow: the maker when he has a good motive in making it, the one who shoots it, and the one who hands it; so shoot and ride, but your shooting is dearer to me than your riding. Everything with which a man amuses himself is vain except three (things): a man's training of his horse, his playing with his wife, and his shooting with his bow and arrow. If anyone abandons archery after becoming an adept through distaste for it, it is a blessing he has abandoned; or he said: for which he has been ungrateful. (Dawood; Tirmidih)

2) Narrated Salama bin Al Akwa The Prophet passed by some persons of the tribe of Aslam practicing archery (i.e. the throwing of arrows). Allah's Apostle said, "O offspring of Ishmael! Practice archery (i.e. arrow throwing) as your father was a great archer (i.e. arrow-thrower). I am with (on the side of) the son of so-and-so." Hearing that, one of the two teams stopped throwing. Allah's Apostle asked them, "Why are you not throwing?" They replied, "O Allah's Apostle! How shall we throw when you are with the opposite team?" He said, "Throw, for I am with you all." (Bukhari)

3) Narrated Uqbah ibn Amir Fuqaym al-Lakhmi said to Uqbah ibn Amir: You frequent between these two targets and you are and old man, so you will be finding it very hard. Uqbah said: But for a thing I heard from the Prophet (peace be upon him), I would not strain myself. Harith (one of the narrators in the chain of transmitters) said: I asked Ibn Shamasah: What was that? He said that he (the Prophet) said: Who learnt archery and then gave it up is not from us, or he has been guilty of disobedience (to Allah's Apostle). [Muslim]

4) Narrated Uqbah Ibn Amir I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say - and he was delivering a sermon from the pulpit: Prepare to meet them with as much strength as you can afford. Beware, strength consists in archery. Beware, strength consists in archery. Beware, strength consists in archery. [Muslim]

5) Sad ibn Abi Waqqas is also known as the first companion to have shot an arrow in defence of Islam. And the Prophet once prayed for him: "O Lord, direct his shooting and respond to his prayer."

6) Umar used to issue instructions laying stress on the teaching of four things to the soldiers, namely: horse-racing; archery; walking barefoot, and swimming.

http://misconceptions-clarified.blog...sists.html?m=1

Crossbows are silent and fast too.

In modern times, crossbows have been largely supplanted by firearms in most roles, but are still widely used for shooting sports, hunting, and when shooting in relative silence is an important consideration.
Reply

Mustafa16
05-31-2017, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Answer: how did David beat goliath? Or was that a rhetorical question? ??

Kam min fi atin qalleelin ghalabat fi atin thatheerin bi idhn Allah?


For a long time sniper tactics have been considered by many, even in the military, to be akin to a kind of state designated “murder” rather than a legitimate combat strategy. Only in recent years has sniping achieved a certain level of recognition. Centuries of warfare have passed in which snipers were happily recruited for their skills, and then quickly swept under the rug and forgotten once conflict was over. Daniel Morgan and his crack-shot riflemen were instrumental in America's revolutionary victory over the British. U.S. sharpshooters rained hell down on German troops from over 900 yards during WWI. Snipers have dominated the battlefield in every modern conflagration. Yet, regimented sniping schools were not standardized in the U.S. Army until 1987. All previous schools were abandoned within a few years of their establishment.
Why did it take so long for the sniper to be recognized as essential to victory? Perhaps because snipers are TOO effective, to the point that they become frightening to the establishment.

During the Finnish “Winter War” against the Soviet Union in which they were vastly outnumbered and outgunned, guerrilla tactics, which they called “Motti tactics”, were used to excellent effect. The Finnish devastated the Soviets using hit and run attacks, homemade and improvised weapons, and snipers. The most famous of these snipers was Simo Hayha.

Simo was a common farmer with a diminutive stature of only 5 feet 3 inches tall. His shooting prowess was honed as a hunter in the wilderness of Finland. Simo is credited with over 505 (official) kills, including several teams of Soviet counter-snipers sent specifically to eliminate him. These kills were made during less than 100 days of combat, meaning Hayha engaged and destroyed 5 targets per day by himself. Known as the “White Death”, Simo would finally be removed from the battlefield by a lucky shot from an explosive tipped rifle round to the face while holding off a Soviet advance; he would wake up later in a Finnish hospital at the very end of the war and die of old age in the year 2002.

Simo Hayha proved once and for all the effectiveness of a single shooter in the face of a more powerful opponent. This kind of attrition warfare stopped the more technologically advanced Russians in their tracks, and ended their pursuit of total invasion. The poorly armed Finish prevailed despite all odds.

Sniper training turns a simple rifleman into a weapon of long range mass destruction, which is probably the reason why most governments around the globe have been reluctant until recently to educate more than a handful of soldiers on sniping methods. Hypothetically, a team of snipers could be dangerous enough to topple the political leadership (or oligarchy) of any given nation with nothing more than a few finely tuned rifles and a couple boxes of high caliber rounds.

Governments, fearful of being outdone by such low-tech adversaries, have gone to great lengths in an attempt to negate the sniper as a threat. Night vision, thermal vision, sound detection equipment, gas attacks, white phosphorous attacks, even large scale artillery barrages and laser guided missiles have not been able to stop snipers from remaining as a primary combat tool. Snipers always find a way around existing defenses, no matter how high tech.
This is why sniper techniques are one of the ultimate strategies for self defense of the common citizenry usually disarmed of military grade weaponry.

http://alt-market.com/articles/1970-...tf-survivalist


You have placed a very intelligent question here “What does the strength or power in archery means” in this hadith of Prophet’s - Narrated Uqbah Ibn Amir I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say - and he was delivering a sermon from the pulpit: Prepare to meet them with as much strength as you can afford. Beware, strength consists in archery. Beware, strength consists in archery. Beware, strength consists in archery. [Muslim]

Prophet said:

1) Narrated Uqbah ibn Amir I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say: Allah, Most High, will cause three persons to enter Paradise for one arrow: the maker when he has a good motive in making it, the one who shoots it, and the one who hands it; so shoot and ride, but your shooting is dearer to me than your riding. Everything with which a man amuses himself is vain except three (things): a man's training of his horse, his playing with his wife, and his shooting with his bow and arrow. If anyone abandons archery after becoming an adept through distaste for it, it is a blessing he has abandoned; or he said: for which he has been ungrateful. (Dawood; Tirmidih)

2) Narrated Salama bin Al Akwa The Prophet passed by some persons of the tribe of Aslam practicing archery (i.e. the throwing of arrows). Allah's Apostle said, "O offspring of Ishmael! Practice archery (i.e. arrow throwing) as your father was a great archer (i.e. arrow-thrower). I am with (on the side of) the son of so-and-so." Hearing that, one of the two teams stopped throwing. Allah's Apostle asked them, "Why are you not throwing?" They replied, "O Allah's Apostle! How shall we throw when you are with the opposite team?" He said, "Throw, for I am with you all." (Bukhari)

3) Narrated Uqbah ibn Amir Fuqaym al-Lakhmi said to Uqbah ibn Amir: You frequent between these two targets and you are and old man, so you will be finding it very hard. Uqbah said: But for a thing I heard from the Prophet (peace be upon him), I would not strain myself. Harith (one of the narrators in the chain of transmitters) said: I asked Ibn Shamasah: What was that? He said that he (the Prophet) said: Who learnt archery and then gave it up is not from us, or he has been guilty of disobedience (to Allah's Apostle). [Muslim]

4) Narrated Uqbah Ibn Amir I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say - and he was delivering a sermon from the pulpit: Prepare to meet them with as much strength as you can afford. Beware, strength consists in archery. Beware, strength consists in archery. Beware, strength consists in archery. [Muslim]

5) Sad ibn Abi Waqqas is also known as the first companion to have shot an arrow in defence of Islam. And the Prophet once prayed for him: "O Lord, direct his shooting and respond to his prayer."

6) Umar used to issue instructions laying stress on the teaching of four things to the soldiers, namely: horse-racing; archery; walking barefoot, and swimming.

http://misconceptions-clarified.blog...sists.html?m=1

Crossbows are silent and fast too.
did you even bother to read the links and description, brother Abz? I was talking about a specific event where 38 men ALREADY took control of a nation, which amazed me. And no, they did not use snipers.
Reply

Abz2000
05-31-2017, 09:42 PM
You asked a question - I gave the best answer I can think of bi idhn Allah. I'm not here for light banter or theoretical frivolitiy - but to assist in Allah's work to the best of my ability given the circumstances.
Your question was answered as asked.
Reply

anatolian
06-01-2017, 11:00 AM
Alparslan Türkeş was just a colonel in the 1960 coup. That was not a coup of him. The 1960 coup was just like the 1980 coup was planned and organized by America. The Coupes all over the world are always plotted by America. You cant do a coup by yourself
Reply

Abz2000
06-01-2017, 01:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Alparslan Türkeş was just a colonel in the 1960 coup. That was not a coup of him. The 1960 coup was just like the 1980 coup was planned and organized by America. The Coupes all over the world are always plotted by America. You cant do a coup by yourself
The wise are embarked on a different coup planned and organized by Allah, it relates to the waking up of humanity and attaining salvation in this world and in eternity. The corrupt know that Islam is taking over and are desperately trying to shake things up and cause polarization based on nothing significant - to the extent that they are willing to false flag and even fund fighters on all sides in order to keep the confusion going. Makes me admire the masonic method of taking control sort of, but in an honest way for Allah'' sake and on a more individual level globally. Once we have enough people who accept the true and just ways that Allah has revealed - it's a coup.
Reply

Futuwwa
06-01-2017, 05:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
Yeah, Islamist nationalists like him always use the 'victim' card.
Devout Muslims in Turkey are objectively and factually victims of the Deep State of the self-proclaimed defenders of Atatürk's legacy and their oppressive state secularism. Islamic piety has been suppressed and the pious suffered state-sanctioned discrimination. Merve Kavakci was exiled and stripped of citizenship for wearing a hijab inside parliament. Critically, the Deep State considered itself above democracy and was utterly unapologetic about pulling the kill switch on it whenever it led to an outcome they didn't like, and Turkish secularists supported it in doing so. Pious Muslims did not have any way to obtain change through democratic means. From day one of his reign, Erdogan lived under the shadow of the threat of military coup, and had his acts blocked by unelected, unaccountable, unreplaceable judges. Erdogan knows this, and more critically, his followers know this. They know it's either him or a return to the days of the stranglehold of the Deep State. So they support him, even as he is making himself Sultan.

Turkish democracy wasn't killed by Erdogan. It was stillborn all along, suffocated in its infancy by Kemalists who paid lip service to it but didn't accept the fact that it could lead to Kemalism being voted out. Now, when their power slipped to the opposite camp, and the opposite camp returns the favour, the Kemalists are the biggest whiners.

format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
But word is coming out that the coup was staged, based on media reports and coup plotters' testimony. We might very well see another coup in Turkey backed by the people if word gets out, or even a revolution, civil war, or arrest leading to lynching, assassination, execution, or life imprisonment (EDIT: Of Erdogan)
Dream on. During the recent referendum, his followers came out in force and proclaimed their readiness to die for him. Essentially saying they're with him because he's their guy, regardless of whether he cheated or not. For the reason, see above.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 07:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Devout Muslims in Turkey are objectively and factually victims of the Deep State of the self-proclaimed defenders of Atatürk's legacy and their oppressive state secularism. Islamic piety has been suppressed and the pious suffered state-sanctioned discrimination. Merve Kavakci was exiled and stripped of citizenship for wearing a hijab inside parliament. Critically, the Deep State considered itself above democracy and was utterly unapologetic about pulling the kill switch on it whenever it led to an outcome they didn't like, and Turkish secularists supported it in doing so. Pious Muslims did not have any way to obtain change through democratic means. From day one of his reign, Erdogan lived under the shadow of the threat of military coup, and had his acts blocked by unelected, unaccountable, unreplaceable judges. Erdogan knows this, and more critically, his followers know this. They know it's either him or a return to the days of the stranglehold of the Deep State. So they support him, even as he is making himself Sultan.

Turkish democracy wasn't killed by Erdogan. It was stillborn all along, suffocated in its infancy by Kemalists who paid lip service to it but didn't accept the fact that it could lead to Kemalism being voted out. Now, when their power slipped to the opposite camp, and the opposite camp returns the favour, the Kemalists are the biggest whiners.



Dream on. During the recent referendum, his followers came out in force and proclaimed their readiness to die for him. Essentially saying they're with him because he's their guy, regardless of whether he cheated or not. For the reason, see above.
Neither side is good. Hardliner ultra-secularist Kemalists, or dictatorship Islamists. Erdogan is a crook who deserves to be hung for the 250 martyrs of July 15.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 07:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Devout Muslims in Turkey are objectively and factually victims of the Deep State of the self-proclaimed defenders of Atatürk's legacy and their oppressive state secularism. Islamic piety has been suppressed and the pious suffered state-sanctioned discrimination. Merve Kavakci was exiled and stripped of citizenship for wearing a hijab inside parliament. Critically, the Deep State considered itself above democracy and was utterly unapologetic about pulling the kill switch on it whenever it led to an outcome they didn't like, and Turkish secularists supported it in doing so. Pious Muslims did not have any way to obtain change through democratic means. From day one of his reign, Erdogan lived under the shadow of the threat of military coup, and had his acts blocked by unelected, unaccountable, unreplaceable judges. Erdogan knows this, and more critically, his followers know this. They know it's either him or a return to the days of the stranglehold of the Deep State. So they support him, even as he is making himself Sultan.

Turkish democracy wasn't killed by Erdogan. It was stillborn all along, suffocated in its infancy by Kemalists who paid lip service to it but didn't accept the fact that it could lead to Kemalism being voted out. Now, when their power slipped to the opposite camp, and the opposite camp returns the favour, the Kemalists are the biggest whiners.



Dream on. During the recent referendum, his followers came out in force and proclaimed their readiness to die for him. Essentially saying they're with him because he's their guy, regardless of whether he cheated or not. For the reason, see above.
And, also, what exactly do you consider to be worse? Sending a woman to jail for KNOWINGLY violating the law by wearing a hijab in parliament (REGARDLESS of whether or not it is right, it is the law, and she should work somewhere else if it mean that much to her) or sending tens of thousands to prison to be tortured, most of whom weren't even soldiers, but teachers, for a coup they did not committ? EDIT: Islamists will always play the victim card for when THEIR beliefs are violated, but not when others rights are violated, including atheists, Gulenists, political opposition, secularists (irreligious people), Christians, Jews, etc.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 07:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Devout Muslims in Turkey are objectively and factually victims of the Deep State of the self-proclaimed defenders of Atatürk's legacy and their oppressive state secularism. Islamic piety has been suppressed and the pious suffered state-sanctioned discrimination. Merve Kavakci was exiled and stripped of citizenship for wearing a hijab inside parliament. Critically, the Deep State considered itself above democracy and was utterly unapologetic about pulling the kill switch on it whenever it led to an outcome they didn't like, and Turkish secularists supported it in doing so. Pious Muslims did not have any way to obtain change through democratic means. From day one of his reign, Erdogan lived under the shadow of the threat of military coup, and had his acts blocked by unelected, unaccountable, unreplaceable judges. Erdogan knows this, and more critically, his followers know this. They know it's either him or a return to the days of the stranglehold of the Deep State. So they support him, even as he is making himself Sultan.

Turkish democracy wasn't killed by Erdogan. It was stillborn all along, suffocated in its infancy by Kemalists who paid lip service to it but didn't accept the fact that it could lead to Kemalism being voted out. Now, when their power slipped to the opposite camp, and the opposite camp returns the favour, the Kemalists are the biggest whiners.



Dream on. During the recent referendum, his followers came out in force and proclaimed their readiness to die for him. Essentially saying they're with him because he's their guy, regardless of whether he cheated or not. For the reason, see above.
You dream on. The truth will come out eventually that Erdogan murdered hundreds. And dozens more in prison, including teachers.
Reply

anatolian
06-01-2017, 08:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
The wise are embarked on a different coup planned and organized by Allah, it relates to the waking up of humanity and attaining salvation in this world and in eternity. The corrupt know that Islam is taking over and are desperately trying to shake things up and cause polarization based on nothing significant - to the extent that they are willing to false flag and even fund fighters on all sides in order to keep the confusion going. Makes me admire the masonic method of taking control sort of, but in an honest way for Allah'' sake and on a more individual level globally. Once we have enough people who accept the true and just ways that Allah has revealed - it's a coup.
Of course as Quran says "They are planning and Allah is also planning. Allah is the best of planners"
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 08:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Of course as Quran says "They are planning and Allah is also planning. Allah is the best of planners"
you claim "feto" is a terrorist organization. we did not do coup. we did not train PKK. we did not assassinate hrant dink. we did not do those shootings. EU, NATO, US, and German intelligence all say Gulen was not behind coup. Kemal Kilicdaroglu says it was a "controlled coup." He represents 1/4 of voters. Erdogan suppressed state media. Evidence by coup plotters' testimony points to MIT's involvement (Turkish National Intelligence organization). You tried to brainwash me into hating my own people and family. Hulusi Akar (chief of staff) and Hakan Fidan (Intelligence officer) were informed by soldiers and Dogu Perincek ahead of time. There is no free media in Turkey. Erdogan rigged elections. Adil Oksuz works for MIT and disappeared. Turkish people will be punished for their sins against the Gulenist people.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 08:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Of course as Quran says "They are planning and Allah is also planning. Allah is the best of planners"
also, https://www.aei.org/publication/more...n-behind-coup/

https://www.aei.org/publication/turk...e-staged-coup/
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 08:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
The wise are embarked on a different coup planned and organized by Allah, it relates to the waking up of humanity and attaining salvation in this world and in eternity. The corrupt know that Islam is taking over and are desperately trying to shake things up and cause polarization based on nothing significant - to the extent that they are willing to false flag and even fund fighters on all sides in order to keep the confusion going. Makes me admire the masonic method of taking control sort of, but in an honest way for Allah'' sake and on a more individual level globally. Once we have enough people who accept the true and just ways that Allah has revealed - it's a coup.
and as for YOU, stop blaming the West and "freemasonry" and "Illuminati" for all of Muslim world's problems. The latter two don't exist (well, freemasonry does, but it isn't a secret society ruling the world, you are clearly misinformed).......and the Muslim world is to blame for it's problems, as we blame all of our problems on the "evil Jews" and the "evil Zionists" and "evil illuminati" and "evil kuffar" and "crusaders" and "false flags" Osama bin laden did 9/11.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 08:18 PM
These conspiracy theories and finger pointing need to stop. The Muslim world is corrupt because of it's own wrongdoing. Is the west pointing a gun to your head and telling you to force 6-9 year old girls to get married to 50 year old men in afghanistan and yemen, (against shariah) or beat your wives, (against shariah) or jail journalists, (against shairah) or torture political opposition, (against shariah) or kill civilians (against shariah), or force rape victims to marry their victims? (against shariah)
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 08:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Alparslan Türkeş was just a colonel in the 1960 coup. That was not a coup of him. The 1960 coup was just like the 1980 coup was planned and organized by America. The Coupes all over the world are always plotted by America. You cant do a coup by yourself
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_of_18_Brumaire
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 08:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Alparslan Türkeş was just a colonel in the 1960 coup. That was not a coup of him. The 1960 coup was just like the 1980 coup was planned and organized by America. The Coupes all over the world are always plotted by America. You cant do a coup by yourself
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._coup_attempts
Reply

Scimitar
06-01-2017, 08:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
Yeah, Islamist nationalists like him always use the 'victim' card.
Don't you also do the same when you make all these topics about Turkey? :D

Scimi
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Don't you also do the same when you make all these topics about Turkey? :D

Scimi
except in this case my people are an actual victim. who's the victim? Adnan Menderes? He was a dictator....he deserved it. Erdogan? Ok, so he was put in prison for reading a poem insulting Jews. Many countries have anti-defamation laws, and muslims demand those laws for themselves in europe, and even kill people who committ blasphemy (in their own countries OR in europe), and he only was in prison for like, what, a month? now look what he's become. gulenists? who dared to expose, THROUGH THE JUDICIAL PROCESS, Erdogan accepting bribes so his men can send money to iran by the hundreds of millions?
EDIT: Check this out, the referendum after the 1960 coup d'etat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkis...ferendum,_1961
Reply

Scimitar
06-01-2017, 09:05 PM
you are really boring me now
Reply

Scimitar
06-01-2017, 09:09 PM
You sound like a victim Mustafa16, the irony is way over your head :D
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 09:28 PM
Insha'Allah the ahl-al-haqq will conquer turkey once more, and have erdogan executed or sentenced to life in prison in either turkish prison or the hague.
Reply

anatolian
06-01-2017, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
you claim "feto" is a terrorist organization. we did not do coup. we did not train PKK. we did not assassinate hrant dink. we did not do those shootings. EU, NATO, US, and German intelligence all say Gulen was not behind coup. Kemal Kilicdaroglu says it was a "controlled coup." He represents 1/4 of voters. Erdogan suppressed state media. Evidence by coup plotters' testimony points to MIT's involvement (Turkish National Intelligence organization). You tried to brainwash me into hating my own people and family. Hulusi Akar (chief of staff) and Hakan Fidan (Intelligence officer) were informed by soldiers and Dogu Perincek ahead of time. There is no free media in Turkey. Erdogan rigged elections. Adil Oksuz works for MIT and disappeared. Turkish people will be punished for their sins against the Gulenist people.
To be honest with you I dont consider Gülen movement as a terrorist organization aka FETO as Erdoğan wants people so to label them. I believe majority of the jamaat members had no idea at all on what was going on. Gülen jamaat is a crypto organization. They are an Islamic religious group/jamaat at first hand but also a secret organization used by CIA. What is the reason behind Gülen's residency in Pensilvania since 1999? He ran from Kemalists but could be welcomed as victorious during the first 10 years of AKP rule. When you were a child all those years, Erdoğan and Gülen were "planning" all the things together. You are just so young to see. Also I never tried to brainwash you to hate anybody let alone your family. You are just assuming too much.

I dont follow the news from mainstream media so their political relations to the goverment is not my concern. Also I can distinguish the events when I get the info regardless of their source. And I encourage you to do same. Now think yourself, why he has been residing in Pensilvania since the last 18 years and why EU, NATO, German intelligency etc. are trying to prove the "innocence" of the jamaat? That brings you to one single point, America. America has been trying to control such kind of "moderate Islamist" movements in the hard Muslim regions like Turkey for long decades. It is called "green zone project" and that was first created by Jimmy Carter in 1977 to control Muslims against the Soviet thread. It just shaped on this way today. AKP was created by America too but Erdoğan had already got out of control. So Gülen jamaat members who had entered to the state/army was the only option to overthrow Erdo.

Now again, I don't call you to hate all Gülenists around you. I just call to you to know the facts, use reasoning and act upon it. Get it?
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
To be honest with you I dont consider Gülen movement as a terrorist organization aka FETO as Erdogan wants people so to label them. I believe majority of the jamaat members had no idea at all on what was going on. Gülen jamaat is a crypto organization. They are an Islamic religious group/jamaat at first hand but also a secret organization used by CIA. What is the reason behind Gülen's residency in Pensilvania since 1999? He ran from Kemalists but could be welcomed as victorious during the first 10 years of AKP rule. When you were a child all those years, Erdogan and Gülen were "planning" all the things together. You are just so young to see. Also I never tried to brainwash you to hate anybody let alone your family. You are just assuming too much.

I dont follow the news from mainstream media so their political relations to the goverment is not my concern. Also I can distinguish the events when I get the info regardless of their source. And I encourage you to do same. Now think yourself, why he has been residing in Pensilvania since the last 18 years and why EU, NATO, German intelligency etc. are trying to prove the "innocence" of the jamaat? That brings you to one single point, America. America has been trying to control such kind of "moderate Islamist" movements in the hard Muslim regions like Turkey for long decades. It is called "green zone project" and that was first created by Jimmy Carter in 1977 to control Muslims against the Soviet thread. It just shaped on this way today. AKP was created by America too but Erdogan had already got out of control. So Gülen jamaat members who had entered to the state/army was the only option to overthrow Erdo.

Now again, I don't call you to hate all Gülenists around you. I just call to you to know the facts, use reasoning and act upon it. Get it?
gulen did not order coup. he went to america for medical treatment, and did not go back because he was too ill to travel, and because he wanted to help spread education to america. i get my media from unbiased sources. you on the other hand, are listening to muslim fundamentalist conspiracy theorist propaganda put out by islamist backwards authrotiarian uneducated morons. there is no green zone project. there is no cia. yes you did call them a terror organization, dont deny it, i have my pm. they prove innocence because mit did the coup. if they are crypto, then any religious organization is crypto, because gulen jamaat is simply a humanitarian project, which third world dictator wanna be sultans dont understand when their members expose his corruption through legal means.

http://www.dw.com/en/turkey-rocked-b...dal/a-17324458


now, let's look at what gulenists vs erdogan has accomplished....erdogan...ding ding ding! are you ready? erdogan: censoring the media, civil war and sectarian strife and terrorism in syria, hundreds of millions of dollars sent to iran, including entities like hezbollah, arms shipped to boko haram, arms shipped to al qaeda, erdogan saying "why do you call al nusra terorrists" erodgan arresting 50000 and detaining 150000 including arresting the two co heads of the HDP, and a dozen other lawmakers, and journalists, teachers, professors, etc. including my relatives, and firing 160,000 including my relatives, only one of which was in the army, and wasn't in the coup, toruturing teachers to death, staging a coup. and banning professors and others from leaving the country, killing hundreds of civilians in southeastern turkey, and...ding ding ding! gulen: education, charity, interfaith dialogue.


now let's see WHAT ELSE erodgan did ..... make peace with israel, iran, russia, china, all enemies of islam......doing billions in trade with them......


do you know what the Prophet (PBUH) said about stealing? "If Fatimah (RA) stole, I would cut her hand off myself." when Bilal stole, he turned the country upside down and suddenly said we are CIA. WAKE UP!!!!!!!


I suggest you start using the facts to arrive at the right conclusion, which I have already done...which is that erdogan did the coup....like the reichstagg fire.....which empowered hitler.....and why are you asking me to use reason when I already have used reason, and determined the truth? i went from gulenist to anti-gulenist back to gulenist.


I also suggest you stop being nationalist and start being islamic
Reply

anatolian
06-01-2017, 10:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
gulen did not order coup. he went to america for medical treatment, and did not go back because he was too ill to travel, and because he wanted to help spread education to america. i get my media from unbiased sources. you on the other hand, are listening to muslim fundamentalist conspiracy theorist propaganda put out by islamist backwards authrotiarian uneducated morons. there is no green zone project. there is no cia. yes you did call them a terror organization, dont deny it, i have my pm. they prove innocence because mit did the coup. if they are crypto, then any religious organization is crypto, because gulen jamaat is simply a humanitarian project, which third world dictator wanna be sultans dont understand when their members expose his corruption through legal means.
Now you are making fun of yourself Mustafa. I didn't tell you that I myself regard them as terrorists. I told you that they are regarded as terrorist in Turkey at the moment.

Another question for you to ponder. Why did those Gülenist generals commend to shoot that Russian jet last year?
Reply

Mustafa16
06-01-2017, 10:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Now you are making fun of yourself Mustafa. I didn't tell you that I myself regard them as terrorists. I told you that they are regarded as terrorist in Turkey at the moment.

Another question for you to ponder. Why did those Gülenist generals commend to shoot that Russian jet last year?
how do you know they were gulenist? how do you know they weren't receiving orders? you may live in turkey but you fail to realize one important aspect of the turkish army...if you dont obey your commander, they dont treat you like a snowflake and give you an honorable discharge....THEY SHOOT YOU! and also, what does them being gulenist have to do with it? that's assuming they're a parallel state, which THEY ARE NOT! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT!!!!!!! Do WE HAVE TO say it!!!!!

now you are making fun of yourself....you deny your own words....and even if that was not what you said, you are accusing them of killing 250 people in turkey when most of the soldiers were kemalist.....according to testimony, IN SPITE OF TORTURE that makes them say they are "gulenist"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail

i know youre 6-9 hours ahead of me, so.....until tomorrow! I shall fight on with the keyboard until the Gulenists are free! and if youll excuse me, im off to quora to debate some more ill-informed turks.
Reply

Abz2000
06-01-2017, 11:51 PM
Mustafa16, you are like an open book......and have been for a long time........one minute you claim to be Muslim, then you claim secularist laws should trump God's laws, then you bash the Muslims (islamists), then you claim that people who seek to establish Islam are morons - and then, after all that, you say "we Muslims" as if you are really a Muslim ashamed of his people. Doesn't it come across as trolling to you?
Tell us how YOU think turkey should be run and I'll tell you what you really are inshaAllah.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-02-2017, 12:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Mustafa16, you are like an open book......and have been for a long time........one minute you claim to be Muslim, then you claim secularist laws should trump God's laws, then you bash the Muslims (islamists), then you claim that people who seek to establish Islam are morons - and then, after all that, you say "we Muslims" as if you are really a Muslim ashamed of his people. Doesn't it come across as trolling to you?
Tell us how YOU think turkey should be run and I'll tell you what you really are inshaAllah.
I believe in conservative democracy that respects religion, but I believe implementing shariah (as in punishments like chopping off the hand of a thief, executing homosexuals) would be impossible and also impractical, and frankly, Islam never provided a legal system. It gave instructions to the PROPHET OF GOD (PBUH) who received REVELATIONS on how to instruct his people to behave, and all Islam taught was JUSTICE (in terms of a legal code, it also taught tawheed, Messengership, the Day of Judgement, etc.) when you turn the specific rules on specific aspects of life for a specific time like chopping off the hand of a thief and killing homosexuals and stoning adulterers to death, into an entire legal system when it was not intended to be, but rather, expanded upon and improved upon based on Islamic principles, you are creating a monopoly on justice that you call "shariah" while becoming backwards politically and sociologically by trying to implement a "legal system" which is actually the expanded works of scholars anyway! for instance, shariah (classical shariah) says the caliphate is a requirement.....this is up for interpretation......we can not ignore our history, and we can not ignore the de facto reality. the rules on caliphates, succession, etc. were mostly created by scholars after the death of the Prophet (PBUH). So I dont care if youre behading homosexuals, throwing them off buildings, throwing them in prison, or stoning adulterers to death, beheading them, giving them a lethal injection, hanging them, or just throwing them in prison, whatever! the Qur'an calls for justice...not a legal system....shariah is islam, but Islam is not what these muftis have turned into what they call "shariah law" (a legal system), so so long as a society is JUST, and governs by justice, in accordance with the conditions and sociological reality of the times, dependant upon context, im FINE. In America, we have strong institutions that prevent one man from becoming a tyrant, and allow him to be imprisoned without the need for bloodshed....THAT is justice.
Reply

Abz2000
06-02-2017, 12:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I believe in conservative democracy that respects religion, but I believe implementing shariah (as in punishments like chopping off the hand of a thief, executing homosexuals) would be impossible and also impractical, and frankly, Islam never provided a legal system. It gave instructions to the PROPHET OF GOD (PBUH) who received REVELATIONS on how to instruct his people to behave, and all Islam taught was JUSTICE (in terms of a legal code, it also taught tawheed, Messengership, the Day of Judgement, etc.) when you turn the specific rules on specific aspects of life for a specific time like chopping off the hand of a thief and killing homosexuals and stoning adulterers to death, into an entire legal system when it was not intended to be, but rather, expanded upon and improved upon based on Islamic principles, you are creating a monopoly on justice that you call "shariah" while becoming backwards politically and sociologically by trying to implement a "legal system" which is actually the expanded works of scholars anyway! for instance, shariah (classical shariah) says the caliphate is a requirement.....this is up for interpretation......we can not ignore our history, and we can not ignore the de facto reality. the rules on caliphates, succession, etc. were mostly created by scholars after the death of the Prophet (PBUH). So I dont care if youre behading homosexuals, throwing them off buildings, throwing them in prison, or stoning adulterers to death, beheading them, giving them a lethal injection, hanging them, or just throwing them in prison, whatever! the Qur'an calls for justice...not a legal system....shariah is islam, but Islam is not what these muftis have turned into what they call "shariah law" (a legal system), so so long as a society is JUST, and governs by justice, in accordance with the conditions and sociological reality of the times, dependant upon context, im FINE. In America, we have strong institutions that prevent one man from becoming a tyrant, and allow him to be imprisoned without the need for bloodshed....THAT is justice.
I am uncertain as to whether you are purposefully ignoring the facts or just plain "unaware".
The one who does not judge according to what Allah has revealed is a kaafir and a faasiq.

Sharia law is run and constantly checked via consultation by just, knowledgeable, and wise members of the community under a just Muslim caliph -who are well versed in the commands of Allah and His final messenger Muhammad and are also up to date with the condition of the generation they administer to. Contrary to your understanding of it, it relates to the whole spheres of personal and community living and is required in a civilized society in order to judge by a stable and common standard applicable to all. It does not only apply to -and has not been designed only for - the very negligible section of criminals in an Islamic society who comprise afraction of a percentage of the entire community - and is therefore insulting to continually parrot the secularist media's stereotypical description of it by mentioning the punishments in absence of the vast majority of it's application. Throwing unrepentant homosexuals off buildings is not prescribed in the Quran by Allah or in the narrations attributed to His messenger and could be a state of emergency method chosen for it's attention grabbing capability by individuals who urgently wanted to uproot a shameful crime they didn't want to see in society and hoped to chase westwards. Or it could be a direct response to the actions of secularist puppet governments employed by the West who were using such methods of assassination over the few years before the recent events.

The Caliphate is directly and unambiguously translated as Presidency. Khalf-precede-follow-behind, and is the method by which the community of Muslims elect their leader - it has taken place by various methods in the history of Islam and the best methods in the situation are to be adopted seeking Allah's good pleasure.

In America you have a false, unjust and hypocritical system which can be bent at will by those with political and financial clout, with the most corrupt having the most clout. and the prison system is the most concentrated in the world in terms of ratio between unincarcerated and incarcerated. The fact that illegal assassinations by your government according to your own laws are rife and that other countries are used to circumvent laws that your government claims are just is a clear example of the instability of those laws, and the fact that you have made a criminal gambling baron and hotel pimp - Donald trump your supreme commander and executive judge is telling of your intellectual situation.

So please do some research and see what is required for one to claim to be Muslim since an obvious evidence is that Zakah is a pillar of Islam along with shahadah, salah, fasting, and pilgrimage, and if a government does not implement them they are not Muslim but faasiq and kaafir, and if a person claims that they do not need to be implemented and is at peace with their government in not doing so then that person is also a faasiq and a kaafir, and if they attempt to claim that they are still Muslim, they are either jaahil or munaafiq.

I hope I was clear and concise in my response.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-02-2017, 02:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
I am uncertain as to whether you are purposefully ignoring the facts or just plain "unaware".
The one who does not judge according to what Allah has revealed is a kaafir and a faasiq.

Sharia law is run and constantly checked via consultation by just, knowledgeable, and wise members of the community under a just Muslim caliph -who are well versed in the commands of Allah and His final messenger Muhammad and are also up to date with the condition of the generation they administer to. Contrary to your understanding of it, it relates to the whole spheres of personal and community living and is required in a civilized society in order to judge by a stable and common standard applicable to all. It does not only apply to -and has not been designed only for - the very negligible section of criminals in an Islamic society who comprise afraction of a percentage of the entire community - and is therefore insulting to continually parrot the secularist media's stereotypical description of it by mentioning the punishments in absence of the vast majority of it's application. Throwing unrepentant homosexuals off buildings is not prescribed in the Quran by Allah or in the narrations attributed to His messenger and could be a state of emergency method chosen for it's attention grabbing capability by individuals who urgently wanted to uproot a shameful crime they didn't want to see in society and hoped to chase westwards. Or it could be a direct response to the actions of secularist puppet governments employed by the West who were using such methods of assassination over the few years before the recent events.

The Caliphate is directly and unambiguously translated as Presidency. Khalf-precede-follow-behind, and is the method by which the community of Muslims elect their leader - it has taken place by various methods in the history of Islam and the best methods in the situation are to be adopted seeking Allah's good pleasure.

In America you have a false, unjust and hypocritical system which can be bent at will by those with political and financial clout, with the most corrupt having the most clout. and the prison system is the most concentrated in the world in terms of ratio between unincarcerated and incarcerated. The fact that illegal assassinations by your government according to your own laws are rife and that other countries are used to circumvent laws that your government claims are just is a clear example of the instability of those laws, and the fact that you have made a criminal gambling baron and hotel pimp - Donald trump your supreme commander and executive judge is telling of your intellectual situation.

So please do some research and see what is required for one to claim to be Muslim since an obvious evidence is that Zakah is a pillar of Islam along with shahadah, salah, fasting, and pilgrimage, and if a government does not implement them they are not Muslim but faasiq and kaafir, and if a person claims that they do not need to be implemented and is at peace with their government in not doing so then that person is also a faasiq and a kaafir, and if they attempt to claim that they are still Muslim, they are either jaahil or munaafiq.

I hope I was clear and concise in my response.
Do you even follow American politics? Do you have any idea how much trouble Trump is in right now? Did you know that he got elected with Russian interference, and that is part of the reason why he is in trouble? And as for prison incarceration, that can be reformed, but under an undemocratic regime, nothing gets done properly. In a free society, people with the willpower and activism can change things. And look at Scandinavia! They're even better than America! Democracy is not the problem, it's the lack of it. There is far more to democracy than the ballot box, the banks, and the "pornography." America is not even the most democratic nation in the world by my standards. Look at Canada, or Scandinavia! Or other western nations! How they treat their citizens! And yes, occasionally a buffoon or crook gets elected, but they endup getting into trouble....haven't you heard of the Watergate Scandal that led to the downfall of President Nixon? And the current crisis which could cause the downfall of Trump? And yes, someone who does not rule by the law of Allah is not Muslim, but it is up for interpretation what laws you are talking about, what fiqh, what category of shariah, what category of character and conduct, have you ever considered that Allah is saying that whosoever does not implement the religion of Islam (civil Islam) and justice in accordance with Islamic morality is in trouble in the Hereafter? Do you have any idea how difficult it would be to create a caliphate? The closest we got to was ISIS, and they are a crooked gang of criminals......and they are having their butts handed to them right now.....they are LOSING and WILL LOSE! The whole Muslim ummah is against them! Even other groups like al qaeda, al shabab, etc......
Reply

Abz2000
06-02-2017, 09:19 AM
You just need to compare your last two posts to see that they don't merit the time or effort to draft a response.
They respond to each other with a few bits added - which I'm convinced that if I spent another 20 minutes clarifying on this 4 inch screen, would receive another similar "yeah but .... ..... .... " response.
Please take the time to compare your posts - since we are expected by Allah to assist each other in good, learning, justice, positive advancement....and not in incessant unnecessary argument.
Still - I believe the whole forum gained, and wisdom was increased manifold - along with the increased ability to recognise saboteurs. Jzk :)
Reply

Scimitar
06-02-2017, 09:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
except in this case my people are an actual victim. who's the victim?
And there is no bigger victim than a confused and irate 17 year old Turk, basically you mustafa.

You flip flop between Islam and gulenism and God knows what else - you are inconsisten and totally unable to fathom or glean any reality from the nonsense politicking you think you are representing in your childish and arrogant ways - you are a victim unto yourself - confused and cursed by his own hand.

Scimi
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