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JacquelineDeane
06-07-2017, 09:49 PM
Hi guys.

I don't know where to post this, but the Lord has been laying it on my heart for the past few days to tell people about Jesus. This burden is so strong that I have felt sick and very desperate to reach out to others and tell them about Jesus. I asked my Pastor if there were any ministries I could do through my church to serve God, but all he said to me was that if there was anything, he'd let me know. God has been driving me to serve Him so bad that I don't think I can wait much longer for an answer from my Pastor, I am desperate here and I don't think he understands just how urgent it is to witness to the lost. People are dying and going to Hell. That is no laughing matter.

So I am going to write a post and witness to the lost on here...


[Moderator's note: Please see our forum rules, we do not allow other religions to be promoted here.]


Blessings,
Jacqueline
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Scimitar
06-07-2017, 09:54 PM
Peace be with you Jacqueline :)

If Jesus pbuh was God - why did he not know the hour? if you are going to tell me that he was man and god at the same time while claiming that "I an the father are one" means he was always god, and in the next breath telling me the bible says Jesus claimed that he did not know the hour because he was a man - I would say to you - you are sponsoring a mental patient narrative of a bipolar manifestation...

...in case tyou are simply confused due to your zeal and lack of knowledge on the NT bible, I give you this:



Enjoy,

Scimi
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-07-2017, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Hi guys.

I don't know where to post this, but the Lord has been laying it on my heart for the past few days to tell people about Jesus. This burden is so strong that I have felt sick and very desperate to reach out to others and tell them about Jesus. I asked my Pastor if there were any ministries I could do through my church to serve God, but all he said to me was that if there was anything, he'd let me know. God has been driving me to serve Him so bad that I don't think I can wait much longer for an answer from my Pastor, I am desperate here and I don't think he understands just how urgent it is to witness to the lost. People are dying and going to Hell. That is no laughing matter.

So I am going to write a post and witness to the lost on here...

Dear person much loved by the Lord,

Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners like you and me. Have you ever thought about what happens after you die? I have. It has brought me much anxiety thinking about it, because I know that this life does not last forever and one day, we all will die.

A lot of people today do not think about where they will spend eternity, and this thinking is a big mistake.

But what happens after death? The Bible is the only book that can tell us what happens to us after we die. God Himself wrote this great book; it is probably the most important book that was ever written.

Do you mind if I quote some Scriptures? Some people get offended when I quote the Bible, but I never do. Do you know why? Because I am a Christian and I believe that Jesus is my Saviour. The Bible says so. And with that being said, I will give you some Bible verses to help you and educate you.

So what happens after we die? The Bible teaches that man is a tripart being composed of spirit, soul, and a fleshly body. At death, our souls separate from our body and goes back to God to be judged by Him. God will judge everything we do in the body, whether good or bad.

But here is the bad news. You see, nobody is truly a good person. You see, only God is truly good.

Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever hated anyone? If you have, then you have sinned. Killing others is also a sin, and yet you hear every day on the news that someone has murdered somebody else. Why? Because mankind are sinners and on their way to a burning Hell.

Rom 3:23 :
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Now that you know that no one is good in God's eyes, how do we then become good? How do we become vindicated before God? The Bible teaches that we need to have Jesus' righteousness but the only way to do that is to come to Him by faith:

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

So you see that you need to believe in your heart that God raised up Jesus from the dead, and you also need to confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is the Lord.

If you die without Christ, you will spend eternity in Hell. In our modern world today, people think that Hell is a place of never-ending parties and good times. They think that all of their friends will be there. But that is far from the truth. You would think that these people have never read the Bible, or that they have never taken it seriously.

The Bible teaches that Hell is a place of never-ending fire and torment, and my dear friend, that is not very much fun (this truth has scared a lot of people). It is a place of tears and no hope. It is darkness and loneliness. You won't be able to see anyone at all. It is eternal separation from God Himself. Since God is the Source of Joy and Happiness, that means that everything apart from Him is tears, sorrow, and no happiness. And that does not sound like very much fun at all, doesn't it?

So my dear friend, for your own eternal safety, I pray that you will accept Jesus Christ into your heart today, and make Him Lord over your life.

If you have done this, you need to find a Bible-believing church where you can grow in God's Word. And you also need to find out what God wants you to do with your life, so that you may serve Him.

Blessings,
Jacqueline
Just a question do you know why you follow the Bible? Like any proof that the Bible is from jesus (as) or that he existed and it's not a fairy tale?
Reply

AbdurRahman.
06-07-2017, 10:01 PM
Sister, im sorry to have to tell you you are mistaken as God clarified in the last revelation as to who Jesus [pbuh] exactly is; see: http://www.islamreligion.com/article...n-islam-part-1
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Bobbyflay23
06-07-2017, 10:04 PM
Also I'm assuming you came here knowing nothing about Islam thinking that we are just disbelievers in god I would just like to not that Muslims worship the same god as the Jews and Christians and we believe in the Bible and Torah and we believe in jesus and all those profits we just believe the scriptures where changed and corrupted
Reply

urkahnkhan
06-07-2017, 10:07 PM
It more seems like your searching for something. I can tell you alot of things right now but I will stay as fair as possible to you. Look read the codez Siniticus and find the missing links. God is unique and certaintly above humanity alltogether because he invented humans and everything else you see.

So read about the bible who wrote it and where it got corrupted and who corrupted. Jesus wasen't even sent to mankind but rather only to the Israelites back then. His the most misunderstood invididuval in history but all in all do the research and take your time while reading and research for this particular question
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Scimitar
06-07-2017, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Also I'm assuming you came here knowing nothing about Islam thinking that we are just disbelievers in god I would just like to not that Muslims worship the same god as the Jews and Christians and we believe in the Bible and Torah and we believe in jesus and all those profits we just believe the scriptures where changed and corrupted
We do not worship Jesus!!!!


The Christian gods aint no different to the Hindu gods - they are polytheist and I've seen Christians like her argue with each other while each claiming they have the holy ghost - it's just ridiculous!

Scimi
Reply

anatolian
06-08-2017, 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
We do not worship Jesus!!!!


The Christian gods aint no different to the Hindu gods - they are polytheist and I've seen Christians like her argue with each other while each claiming they have the holy ghost - it's just ridiculous!

Scimi
How problematic is that. Hindus are idol worshipers but Quran frequently calls christians as the people of book. Christians worship three Deities and one of them is Allah which disallows you to associate it with Hindu gods. You can not call christians polytheists from an Islamic sense although they can be regarded so from a secular theologic sense
Reply

Scimitar
06-08-2017, 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
How problematic is that. Hindus are idol worshipers but Quran frequently calls christians as the people of book. Christians worship three Deities and one of them is Allah which disallows you to associate it with Hindu gods. You can not call christians polytheists from an Islamic sense although they can be regarded so from a secular theologic sense
Brahma is the same as Allah in Hinduism - yet the hindu's anthropomorphised the asma was sifaat/husna of Allah and thus - shirk akbar! There is no difference!

Go learn it!

Scimi
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Bobbyflay23
06-08-2017, 02:16 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Brahma is the same as Allah in Hinduism - yet the hindu's anthropomorphised the asma was sifaat/husna of Allah and thus - shirk akbar! There is no difference!

Go learn it!

Scimi
They're are Muslims that commit major shirk a example of them is the Shias they arnt polytheists tho they just invalidated they're Islam and need to repent same goes to the Christians
Reply

sister herb
06-08-2017, 08:06 AM
Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Hi guys.

I don't know where to post this, but the Lord has been laying it on my heart for the past few days to tell people about Jesus.
Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
So my dear friend, for your own eternal safety, I pray that you will accept Jesus Christ into your heart today, and make Him Lord over your life.

If you have done this, you need to find a Bible-believing church where you can grow in God's Word. And you also need to find out what God wants you to do with your life, so that you may serve Him.

Blessings,
Jacqueline
Well, telling you the truth, this whole forum was wrong place to post it.
Reply

anatolian
06-08-2017, 09:12 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Brahma is the same as Allah in Hinduism - yet the hindu's anthropomorphised the asma was sifaat/husna of Allah and thus - shirk akbar! There is no difference!

Go learn it!

Scimi
I already knew what you wrote. But still Quran says what it says. Christians are the people of book but Hindus are not. The anthropomorphisation of Allah in Christians is on the art level. They dont worship the images of Allah though they have this son of God/incarnation of God disblief and Quran mentions that. However Hindus literally worship the images of Brahma/idols and this makes them idolater/muhrik. No where in Quran christians are called mushrik.

So we better speak with the terminalogy of Quran rather than our owns for serious kufr/imaan issues
Reply

Abz2000
06-08-2017, 10:07 AM
Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Hi guys.

I don't know where to post this, but the Lord has been laying it on my heart for the past few days to tell people about Jesus. This burden is so strong that I have felt sick and very desperate to reach out to others and tell them about Jesus. I asked my Pastor if there were any ministries I could do through my church to serve God, but all he said to me was that if there was anything, he'd let me know. God has been driving me to serve Him so bad that I don't think I can wait much longer for an answer from my Pastor, I am desperate here and I don't think he understands just how urgent it is to witness to the lost. People are dying and going to Hell. That is no laughing matter.

So I am going to write a post and witness to the lost on here...
Very kind of you.

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Dear person much loved by the Lord,
If by "Lord" you mean "rabbi", that is to say " my master", "guardian", "protector", know that things have changed a little, God's final messenger has clarified to us that the word "rabb" is now exclusively used for the creator of the heavens and the earth.

We are to use words such as "teacher" in order to be unambiguous and clear when referring to humans.



Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners like you and me. Have you ever thought about what happens after you die? I have. It has brought me much anxiety thinking about it, because I know that this life does not last forever and one day, we all will die.
It is true, the priority of some prophets is to lay down the foundations of the law of God and the priority of some is to repair the broken, and also to install it as living in the hearts instead of in the books alone, to pull people back from the brink of destruction, and to heal the heardened or diseased heart from arrogance and or hypocrisy. The task of Jesus is not to bring a new law from God, but to bring people into the already founded laws and guidance- happened last time amongst the children of Israel with the law given to Moses, and happens now on a global scale with the final law to mankind given through Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
A lot of people today do not think about where they will spend eternity, and this thinking is a big mistake.
It is important to think about eternity and to rectify our lives in God's sight so as to live good in this world, and be rewarded with good instead of punishment in eternity.

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
But what happens after death?
After death we are going to be raised to life again after the blowing on a trumpet the second time (after the blowing of the Final Moment on earth that is) by the angel tasked with the duty, his name I believe is Israafeel (raphael), we will then be gathered before God in order to be judged and sorted and put in our places.

48. Further, they say, "When will this promise (come to pass), if what ye say is true?"
49. They will not (have to) wait for aught but a single Blast: it will seize them while they are yet disputing among themselves!
50. No (chance) will they then have, by will, to dispose (of their affairs), nor to return to their own people!
51. The trumpet shall be sounded, when behold! from the sepulchres (men) will rush forth to their Lord!
52. They will say: "Ah! Woe unto us! Who hath raised us up from our beds of repose?"... (A voice will say:) "This is what ((Allah)) Most Gracious had promised. And the Messengers confirmed the truth!"
53. It will be no more than a single Blast, when lo! they will all be brought up before Us!
54. Then, on that Day, not a soul will be wronged in the least, and ye shall but be repaid the meeds of your past Deeds.
55. Verily the Companions of the Garden shall that Day have joy in all that they do;
56. They and their associates will be in groves of (cool) shade, reclining on Thrones (of dignity);
57. (Every) fruit (enjoyment) will be there for them; they shall have whatever they call for;
58. "Peace!" - a word (of salutation) from a Lord Most Merciful!
59. "And O ye in sin! Get ye apart this Day!
60. "Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed?-
61. "And that ye should worship Me, (for that) this was the Straight Way?
62. "But he did lead astray a great multitude of you. Did ye not, then, understand?
63. "This is the Hell of which ye were (repeatedly) warned!
64. "Embrace ye the (fire) this Day, for that ye (persistently) rejected (Truth)."
65. That Day shall We set a seal on their mouths. But their hands will speak to us, and their feet bear witness, to all that they did.
66. If it had been our Will, We could surely have blotted out their eyes; then should they have run about groping for the Path, but how could they have seen?
67. And if it had been Our Will, We could have transformed them (to remain) in their places; then should they have been unable to move about, nor could they have returned (after error).
68. If We grant long life to any, We cause him to be reversed in nature: Will they not then understand?
69. We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:
70. That it may give admonition to any (who are) alive, and that the charge may be proved against those who reject (Truth).
From Quran, Chapter 36

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
The Bible is the only book that can tell us what happens to us after we die.
Please refrain from lying to people in order to lead them to hell. God's word isn't a hustle and it is not wise to lay ownership to it as if it is one's own private property and then get jealous when He reveals the truth which He promised to reveal. Such behaviour indicates arrogance, unjust selfishness, and narrow mindedness in a person.

بِئْسَمَا اشْتَرَوْاْ بِهِ أَنفُسَهُمْ أَن يَكْفُرُواْ بِمَا أنَزَلَ اللّهُ بَغْياً أَن يُنَزِّلُ اللّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ عَلَى مَن يَشَاء مِنْ عِبَادِهِ فَبَآؤُواْ بِغَضَبٍ عَلَى غَضَبٍ وَلِلْكَافِرِينَ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ {90
002:090 Khan
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How bad is that for which they have sold their ownselves, that they should ungratefully reject that which Allah has revealed (the Qur'an), grudging that Allah should reveal of His Grace unto whom He will of His slaves.
So they have drawn on themselves wrath upon wrath. And for the ungrateful rejecters (of Allah and the truth and just way which He revealed), there is disgracing torment.

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
God Himself wrote this great book;
I certainly believe that God wrote upon the tablets which He gave to Moses at the Mount - God knows best how He wrote it though, whether He literally wrote with hands or commanded the pen to write by His will - God knows best.

Please bear in mind though that there is more in the current bible than there was in the tablets, and that some of it is qritten by Prophets, and some by the hands of men who added footnotes and notes in the margins, and some by malicious scribes who were usually in the employ of the corrupt priests working under corrupt kings.

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
it is probably the most important book that was ever written.
It is indeed amongst the most important books ever written, but seeing as the final revelation and edict is the Quran, the Quran must be given priority in terms of law derivation.


I'll be back after prayer - God willing.

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Do you mind if I quote some Scriptures? Some people get offended when I quote the Bible, but I never do.
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 56, Number 667
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
The Prophet said, "Convey (my teachings) to the people even if it were a single sentence, and tell others the stories of Bani Israel (which have been taught to you), for it is not sinful to do so. And whoever tells a lie on me intentionally, will surely take his place in the (Hell) Fire."

Sunan Abu Dawud
Book 25, Number 3654
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: relate traditions from the children of Isra'il; there is no harm.

Book 25, Number 3655
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to relate to us traditions from the children of Isra'il till morning came; he would not get up except for obligatory prayer.

And it is said: "there is no harm" means that it should not bother you when you hear strange stories about them (Bani Israel), since many of these events have occurred to them.
Relate traditions from the children of Isra'il; there is no harm., firstly "Relate" indicates that it is compulsory, then he pointed out that it is not compulsory but permissible when he said "there is no harm", meaning no harm in not relating their traditions.
And it is said that it means relating traditions about them found in the Qur'an and authentic hadith.
And Imam Shafi said: It is known that the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not permit speaking lies when he said "relate traditions from the children of Israel", thus it is meant that you relate traditions that you know not to be lies and whatever you find to be compliant with your beliefs (the truth) then there is no harm narrating those traditions from them. This is in obedience to the Prophet's statement "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them." He did not recommend nor prohibit relating those traditions that are known to not be lies. (Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, Fathul Bari, Kitab: Ahaadeeth Al 'Anbiyaa', Bab: Ma Thakr 'an Bani Israel, Commentary on Hadith no. 3202,

Source: http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/do...authoritative_


Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Do you know why? Because I am a Christian and I believe that Jesus is my Saviour. The Bible says so.
Be informed that the requirement is not to just join a sect and take sides based on brand names and team spirit, but the requirement is to accept truth and sincere justice, to submit to God as the ultimate authority having no partners, and to strive to please God with all of one's being - including hand, tongue, heart, and (mind).

فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا فِطْرَةَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ {30

So set your face steadily and truly to the Faith (way of life): (establish) Allah's origination according to the pattern on which He has originated mankind: there is no change in that which is wrought by Allah: that is the standard and upright Religion: but most among mankind know not.

مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ {31
030:031
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(Always) Turning in repentance to Him, and be afraid and dutiful to Him; and establish prayer (Iqamat-as-Salat) and be not of Al-Mushrikun (the disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, polytheists, idolaters, etc.).

مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ {32

Of those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with themselves.



We are told throughout the bible and the Quran that God is the ultimate saviour and that the prophets were sent to save people from destruction by God's leave, by bringing people the guidance from God. Jesus is one saviour of many, who guided to God's just ways and to God's good pleasure via the guidance he received and by adhering to the law of God revealed to Moses - although he was allowed to make some revisions and clarifications in terms of strict laws over which there was dispute.



وَلَمَّا جَاء عِيسَى بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ قَالَ قَدْ جِئْتُكُم بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَلِأُبَيِّنَ لَكُم بَعْضَ الَّذِي تَخْتَلِفُونَ فِيهِ فَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُونِ {63
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And when 'Iesa (Jesus) came with (Our) clear Proofs, he said: "I have come to you with Al- Hikmah (wisdom), and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) in which you differ, therefore fear Allah and obey me,

إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ رَبِّي وَرَبُّكُمْ فَاعْبُدُوهُ هَذَا صِرَاطٌ مُّسْتَقِيمٌ {64

043:064
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"Indeed Allah, He is my Lord (rabbi) and your Lord (rabbakum): so worship, obey, and serve Him: this is a Straight Way."

---------


16Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).

17Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,
‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

18Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her.

From John 20, kjv

I'll be back after completion of the fast and prayer - God willing.


Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
And with that being said, I will give you some Bible verses to help you and educate you.
If that is your real intention, then I am attentive, please accept that I will be critical - though - with sincerity and the seeking of truth in mind.


Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
So what happens after we die? The Bible teaches that man is a tripart being composed of spirit, soul, and a fleshly body. At death, our souls separate from our body and goes back to God to be judged by Him.

Although the difference and blending of the nafs (soul/self/mind?) Ruh (spirit?) Jasad/lahm (carnal body/flesh) Is not entirely clear to humankind, a part of your statement is alluded to here:
اللَّهُ يَتَوَفَّى الْأَنفُسَ حِينَ مَوْتِهَا وَالَّتِي لَمْ تَمُتْ فِي مَنَامِهَا فَيُمْسِكُ الَّتِي قَضَى عَلَيْهَا الْمَوْتَ وَيُرْسِلُ الْأُخْرَى إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ {42
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It is Allah Who completely takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps/retains those (souls) for which He has ordained death and sends the others for a term appointed. Verily, in this are signs for a people who think/ponder deeply.

How exactly He does that, and what difference is it to the spirit, God knows - not me.

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن الْعِلْمِ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً {85
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And they ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning the Ruh (the Spirit); Say: "The Ruh (the Spirit): it is from the command of my Lord (rabbi), And you (mankind) have been given, of knowledge only a little."


يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ انتَهُواْ خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللّهُ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَات وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ وَكِيلاً {17

004:171 Yusufali
:
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
God will judge everything we do in the body, whether good or bad.

God shall jusge everything we did in the body, after raising us in bodies again. Thia fact is confirmed in surah Al Qiyaamah (the ressurection/standing/rising)

أَيَحْسَبُ الْإِنسَانُ أَلَّن نَجْمَعَ عِظَامَهُ {3
075:003 Khan
:
Does man think that We shall not assemble his bones?

بَلَى قَادِرِينَ عَلَى أَن نُّسَوِّيَ بَنَانَهُ {4
075:004 Khan
:
Yes, We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.

-----

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
But here is the bad news. You see, nobody is truly a good person. You see, only God is truly good.
That's not necessarily bad news, nobody is perfect in goodness, not even Jesus :saws: only God is truly perfect in goodness, however, our intentions, effort, sincerity, and actions will be taken into account along with our unique circumstances, and after God excercises discretion, He will show grace to those whom He justly sees it fitting to receive grace - since deeds alone cannot save a person and weights vary too even for the same deed.

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever hated anyone? If you have, then you have sinned.
If you had a right to ask those detailed questions I would answer you in detail by God's will.
I have commited many deeds which could be considered as wrong and could be considered as good although context is required in order to judge properly- and I turn (repent) to God for the wrong actions and seek to walk aright and do what is just as a way to receive grace and heal, and make a better and more just world.


Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Killing others is also a sin,
Killing unjustly is a sin, please refrain from lying against God.

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
and yet you hear every day on the news that someone has murdered somebody else.
Again, there is a huge difference between "murdering" (martyring), killing unjustly, manslaughter, and just punishment. Maybe actually read the bible and the quran instead of conjecturing because when it becomes obvious that a person is trolling, respect begins to diminish.


Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Why? Because mankind are sinners and on their way to a burning Hell.
Not every deed is the same, and not every person is the same. Who shall and who shall not go to paradise or hell will be judged by God. We humans can only judge according to the best of our limited abilities on earth, and we should judge justly, when seeking what is just, we must judge by what God commands and what pleases God - since there is no other method of reaching justice or consensus.


Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane

Rom 3:23 :
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
By how much each person comes short, is remorseful, sincerely repents (turns to God), and seeks to establish justice is a determining factor in their final outcome.


I'll be back to pick through this thornfield - God willing.
In the meantime....consider that there's a difference between ignorant, racist, malicious fake believers who seek unnecessary fitnah and discord, and true believers who seek to unite upon truth.

These crossworshipping, racist, ignorant, pagan, haters go into an area to provoke a reaction and make people feel bullied - apparently because they're dismayed and fuming at the fact that Muslims have advanced and are running an area well - judging from the fact that they chose a non-white area. I wonder what they would have done if it were an area full of white skinned Muslims.

Lots of swearing ...



And this guy only realises that they're not Muslims after 8 minutes 20 seconds, then carries on trying to provoke them anyway - again at 11min:30s and 13m:45s




And this guy wakes up and explains:




Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane

Now that you know that no one is good in God's eyes, how do we then become good? How do we become vindicated before God? The Bible teaches that we need to have Jesus' righteousness but the only way to do that is to come to Him by faith:

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

So you see that you need to believe in your heart that God raised up Jesus from the dead, and you also need to confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is the Lord.

If you die without Christ, you will spend eternity in Hell. In our modern world today, people think that Hell is a place of never-ending parties and good times. They think that all of their friends will be there. But that is far from the truth. You would think that these people have never read the Bible, or that they have never taken it seriously.

The Bible teaches that Hell is a place of never-ending fire and torment, and my dear friend, that is not very much fun (this truth has scared a lot of people). It is a place of tears and no hope. It is darkness and loneliness. You won't be able to see anyone at all. It is eternal separation from God Himself. Since God is the Source of Joy and Happiness, that means that everything apart from Him is tears, sorrow, and no happiness. And that does not sound like very much fun at all, doesn't it?

So my dear friend, for your own eternal safety, I pray that you will accept Jesus Christ into your heart today, and make Him Lord over your life.

If you have done this, you need to find a Bible-believing church where you can grow in God's Word. And you also need to find out what God wants you to do with your life, so that you may serve Him.

Blessings,
Jacqueline
Reply

tolpuddle
06-08-2017, 10:17 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
How problematic is that. Hindus are idol worshipers but Quran frequently calls christians as the people of book. Christians worship three Deities and one of them is Allah which disallows you to associate it with Hindu gods. You can not call christians polytheists from an Islamic sense although they can be regarded so from a secular theologic sense
Christians worship ONE deity : God (Allah, in Arabic).

To worship three deities is tritheism - which the Christian Church condemned as a heresy in 300 CE.
Reply

tolpuddle
06-08-2017, 10:22 AM
Originally Posted by urkahnkhan
It more seems like your searching for something. I can tell you alot of things right now but I will stay as fair as possible to you. Look read the codez Siniticus and find the missing links. God is unique and certaintly above humanity alltogether because he invented humans and everything else you see.

So read about the bible who wrote it and where it got corrupted and who corrupted. Jesus wasen't even sent to mankind but rather only to the Israelites back then. His the most misunderstood invididuval in history but all in all do the research and take your time while reading and research for this particular question
The Christian scriptures state that - after His resurrection - Jesus commanded His disciples to preach the Gospel to all nations, to make converts from all nations.

There are problems regarding the (possible) corruption of all sacred texts. The Quran is no exception.
Reply

greenhill
06-08-2017, 10:45 AM
Welcome to the forum Jacqueline...

From what I gather, it is the teachings of Paul that is followed. Not Jesus. Jesus was circumcised, most Christians are not. Jesus prayed by putting his head to the ground, Christian do not. Jesus fasted in lent, where has that practice gone? Jesus ate kosher food are amongst the things that reflected the similarities with the muslims today and vastly different from the Christians of today.

I see that the Christians have moved so far away from Jesus' teachings that the easiest way to overcome the problem is to believe that he died for your sins. The muslims on the other hand, believe that we get what we sow. Seeing as we humans are weak, we have a Most Forgiving God in Allah. So, we seek His Forgiveness and we have to seek it sincerely and not assume that someone else will take the sins for us.

We have a hand in our destiny. That hand is our choice(s).


:peace:
Reply

tolpuddle
06-08-2017, 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by greenhill
Welcome to the forum Jacqueline...

From what I gather, it is the teachings of Paul that is followed. Not Jesus. Jesus was circumcised, most Christians are not. Jesus prayed by putting his head to the ground, Christian do not. Jesus fasted in lent, where has that practice gone? Jesus ate kosher food are amongst the things that reflected the similarities with the muslims today and vastly different from the Christians of today.

I see that the Christians have moved so far away from Jesus' teachings that the easiest way to overcome the problem is to believe that he died for your sins. The muslims on the other hand, believe that we get what we sow. Seeing as we humans are weak, we have a Most Forgiving God in Allah. So, we seek His Forgiveness and we have to seek it sincerely and not assume that someone else will take the sins for us.

We have a hand in our destiny. That hand is our choice(s).


:peace:
Jesus's sacrificial death doesn't remove our individual need to repent. But Jesus's death makes it possible for us to BE forgiven; He has paid the penalty of our sins, thus reconciling God's justice (righteousness) with His mercy and forgiveness.

Jesus didn't state that His followers should pray or eat in accordance with Jewish customs.

You are quite right in saying that Lent should be much better observed by Christians as a period of fasting, self-denial and alms-giving.
Reply

sister herb
06-08-2017, 11:47 AM
At my last job the priest came to keep the prayers with the patients and few times I listened them partly (I usually went to other hospital department so I didn´t have to listen them at all). As I remember, the priest talked all the time about Jesus and mostly didn´t even mention the God at all. Someone who hasn´t any clue about Christianity could easily get an image that Christians believe Jesus, not to the God.
Reply

greenhill
06-08-2017, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by tolpuddle
Jesus's sacrificial death doesn't remove our individual need to repent. But Jesus's death makes it possible for us to BE forgiven; He has paid the penalty of our sins, thus reconciling God's justice (righteousness) with His mercy and forgiveness.

Jesus didn't state that His followers should pray or eat in accordance with Jewish customs.

You are quite right in saying that Lent should be much better observed by Christians as a period of fasting, self-denial and alms-giving.

You see, therein lies the heart of the matter... your comment that "Jesus didn't state that his followers should ........". Jesus (pbuh) never intended to have followers. He had a specific task at hand as explained in Matthew 15:24 :He said 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel'. When the woman argued Jesus (pbuh) further said, 'It is not right to take the children's food and toss it to the dogs' (Matthew 15:26) meaning to say that the message was meant for those classified as the lost sheep of israel.
To whom (the lost sheep of israel) he said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets" (Matthew 5:17) implies that the laws prevail and should be adhered to. The continuation of the verse concludes the same too!

To carry on, Jesus (pbuh) also foretold the arrival of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in John 16:12 - "I have much to tell you but you cannot yet bear to hear it. But when the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you all into the truth for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak and he will declare to you the things that are to come"

By looking at all the books and its essence, I have come to realise that each one had its own distinct message. A learning process, so to speak to aid human growth as they passed through the generations. The Israelites were selected almost, as you like the, to be the priestly nation. Trained from generation to generation to understand thoroughly before they themselves can spread the message when it was ready.

The Psalms in essence taught them what is known as tauheed in islam. Developing a relationship with Allah. The Torah added human dynamics in essence, to do unto others what we expect others to do unto you. So an eye for an eye is the threat. This lead to excuse for revenge. Then came the Gospels and a further development came in the form of turning the other cheek, forgiveness. Therein achieving a higher moral state. With the concept of forgiveness embraced, it was possible for the arrival of the final message. In essence, it is about living in a community, the Quran. It affirmed the previous Books and put the story straight for all of them.

So, if the Quran is as what I say it is, law for the community, how can I prove it?

In any community, who are the weakest? Orphans and widows.

In islam, orphans and widows and travellers and neighbours and family (first) and those in need are a must help. Muslim male are entitled up to 4 wives and it really is for that purpose, to help and to take responsibility of the welfare of the unfortunate. If the society is one that has a relationship with Allah, and has the decent communial sense, forgiving and with no orphanage or widows, it becomes a very strong community.

The ideal works. It is humans that make it difficult.

Unfortunately, the lost tribe remained lost to the message. The laws of the Supreme Lord should have been the laws of the world today, but they have instead introduced their own laws for this world. Laws that would enslave all humans.

Think about it.


:peace:
Reply

Abz2000
06-08-2017, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
At my last job the priest came to keep the prayers with the patients and few times I listened them partly (I usually went to other hospital department so I didn´t have to listen them at all). As I remember, the priest talked all the time about Jesus and mostly didn´t even mention the God at all. Someone who hasn´t any clue about Christianity could easily get an image that Christians believe Jesus, not to the God.
If a person really followed Jesus with a thinking brain and had sincerity and humility, they would submit to God and without doubt recognise and accept Muhammad :saws: as the final Messenger of God to mankind - whom they were awaiting.
I recall a government paid social worker telling me that he was Christian, but that he didn't believe in God. Who was mad? Me or him?
Reply

anatolian
06-08-2017, 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by tolpuddle
Christians worship ONE deity : God (Allah, in Arabic).

To worship three deities is tritheism - which the Christian Church condemned as a heresy in 300 CE.
It is according to your reasoning and your reasoning is false. According to the Islamic reasoning, trinitarian Christians worship two created beings as if they are God although they are not. It doesn't differ whether you are regarding them as one Deity or three separate deities. Both option are blesphemy.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
06-08-2017, 06:40 PM
This forums not the right place to post about wanting us to accept Christianity. Much like i wouldnt go on to a Christian forum and tell y'all to accept islam
Reply

Muhammad
06-09-2017, 03:31 AM
Hello Jacqueline,

Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Because I am a Christian and I believe that Jesus is my Saviour.
I am quoting some previous posts which provide a good summary of the issues at hand:


Originally Posted by Insaanah
[We] invite you to belief in one true God, with no associates whatsoever in His Exclusive Divinity, be that in the form of a son, or incarnations of God (something Christianity and Hinduism share in common), or in any other way. No sons, no 3-in-1's, Just purely One. Glorified and Exalted be He above all that is falsely attributed to Him.


  • There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, and Lord.
  • He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.
  • He is eternal and does not die, in any way.
  • He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.
  • There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.
  • He did not and does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.
  • He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, nor any intermediaries. And no denying of God's existence either.
  • There are no sharers, associates, persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense of the word One.

Salvation and sin and forgiveness

With regards to salvation and sin, my understanding is that the whole of Christianity hinges on the fact, that according to Christians, God did not forgive Adam (peace be upon him) for eating from the tree, and that not only Adam but all subsequent generations have to bear a punishment from God, and fell out of grace with God, their relationship with God was severed, and they are born into a state of sin (though I understand this isn't the case in Mormonism). They believe that God expects perfection from humans which humans can never achieve (partly because of the aforementioned sin), thus to atone for our imperfection and inability to meet God's expectation, and to reconcile people to God and repair the severed relationship, and to forgive (but in reality atone) people's sins, the sacrifice of an innocent man (who also happens to be God) and his slow, bloody, and painful death comes into play.

With Allah forgiving Adam (peace be upon him) and honouring him and guiding him, as per Islam, none of the above is needed. In Islam, there is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of ****ation requiring a saviour. No innocent person is made to suffer or die for other's sins.

In Islam, as Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) asked for forgiveness and were forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for our sins, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God, or any purchase price. Both Adam and Eve repented and were forgiven by their Loving, Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam.

While guidance and the right way has been shown to us, we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely, and should we do so, we will find Allah Kind & Forgiving. For all and any in the posterity of Adam, the door of returning to the right path is always open, prior to death.

We are required to struggle, and to make effort, and to show our commitment on our part, by believing and doing good deeds, and obeying God, and the teachings he sent His messengers with. Ultimately, salvation is through Allah's mercy.

It is actually denigrating to God's Power that He should not be able to forgive or remove sins without begetting a son and then sacrificing the son. It ascribes imperfection to God. Perfection is being able to forgive, freely, abundantly, at will. That is perfection. Islam recognises God's power to forgive with just His Will. Some of the other religions seem to claim that forgiveness requires a purchase price and if we can't pay it, somebody else has to pay it on our behalf. In Islam, forgiveness comes without a purchase price or sacrifice. We do not/cannot: buy, sacrifice for, earn or steal it. It comes freely when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent, accepting God's will.

We strive with faith and deeds and obedience to God, do our best, and trust in His Promise, and His Justice, and hoping for His Mercy.

For Christians, this may be hard. They believe that by accepting Jesus (peace be upon him) as their saviour they have an assurance of salvation, and view the Islamic position on salvation as being one of uncertainty. As a rough (not exact) analogy, the Christian position, is like one sitting an exam, but somebody has said they'll take all your bad marks for you, and if you let them do that, you'll pass. In the world, this would be viewed as cheating and as unjust. Injustice cannot be ascribed to God. The Islamic position is that of one sitting an exam, doing their best, and then awaiting their results, based on what they've done, and of course hoping for the mercy of God.

As to Judaism, we believe that God revealed the Torah to Moses and a book called the Injeel to Jesus (peace be upon them both). Both were God's word, scriptures bestowed on the respective prophets. However, over time, people added to/changed the scriptures, so they are no longer the books revealed by God, although fragments of the truth may still survive within them. This is why the Qur'an was revealed, and Allah has promised to preserve it, which is why there will be no need for a new prophet, because the scripture, is, and will remain, in tact. It supersedes the previous scriptures, while being a continuation, confirmation and culmination of the original message contained within them, in its last and final form.

Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that some of the strict regulations Jews have to follow were because of their rebellion, and some were self-imposed. Allah knows best if sacrifices for atonement were an original part of the faith, or added later. Now we have an original and unchanged and preserved scripture from God, we don't need to worry about whats in the current Bible and Torah as authored/changed by humans. As Muslims, part of our articles of faith are to believe in all the scriptures that God revealed, including the Torah and Injeel in their original form as revealed by God, even though we haven't seen them and weren't around when they were revealed. And we believe in and follow as our guide, the current and final scripture, the Qur'an, revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace and salutations of Allah be upon him) who is the prophet who must be followed now and is the Prophet to be followed for all mankind for all time to come.

Please note that Islam is not a new faith but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them). Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, and the meaning loosely translates as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, all races and all peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.


This burden is so strong that I have felt sick and very desperate to reach out to others and tell them about Jesus.
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Muslims love and respect Jesus (peace be upon him) and believe in him as he was; one of the most noble and purest of humanity to ever walk the earth, and one of the greatest messengers of Allah, sent to the Children of Israel. We do not reject him (as Jews do), nor do we deify him (as Christians do). Neither he, nor any other messenger, ever claimed divinity, or to be God's son. We believe he was born miraculously of the noble virgin Mary (peace be on her), and that he is the messiah. We do not however, believe that he was crucified. He'll return to earth near the end of time.

God Himself wrote this great book; it is probably the most important book that was ever written.
Let us hear what those who have studied Christianity have said on this very forum:



Originally Posted by Woodrow
I spent 45 years as a Christian. 25 of those years as a Devout Roman Catholic and a one time seminarian. Then 20 years as a "Born Again" Assembly of God Preacher, Evangelist and Pastor. I too was filled with the Holy spirit and spoke in tongues. I lead many people to Jesus(as) with my preaching and Missionary work in the Mideast and other parts of the world.

I not only believed I led others to believe. Than one day after much prayer I came to realize I was living a lie and an error. I tried for 3 more years and continued to preach, but eventually had to admit that was hypocrisy. I had to admit I was an Atheist, no matter how deeply I wanted to believe. I hated to leave Christianity, but could not believe and could no longer bring myself to preach what I came to believe was a Lie.

I lived the next 20 years as an atheist with occasional Agnostic thoughts. At the age of 65 Allaah(swt) led me to the path of Islam and then I discovered how to truly Love Jesus(as) and live what he actually taught.

My point being do not assume that Muslims are naive and unaware of Christianity. Many of us have strong Christian roots and have Christian friends and relatives.

We are willing to live alongside Christians and even share thoughts with them in the interest of mutual respect and understanding. We are not Muslim because we hate Jesus(as) but because we Love him and do our best to live what he actually taught, which is the same message that is found in the Qur'an.

In the interest of peace among all people, let us understand that each of us alone is responsible for the results of our beliefs. We all have the duty to question all things and only follow that which we our self have verified to be true. Allaah(swt) will lead those who desire to be led. No human has the power or the right to cause another person to believe anything.

With that said I find very few things in the NT to be the Actual teachings of Jesus(as). I can not follow that which I can not verify to be true.

I do not expect you to follow that which you do not believe, grant me the same right to not follow that which I do not believe.






Originally Posted by Aprender
You need to understand the history of the Biblical texts. That's what I did. I grew up in a Christian household, in my later high school and early college years I went away from Christianity and then came back to it. My goal was to study as much about Christianity as I could so I could go out and let people know about the joy of Christianity and being saved.

So I read the different translations of the Bible. Some of them had different verses out of place. Some had verses that were missing. And so I went to different Bible scholars to help explain some of the inconsistencies to me. Remember this story?

John 8:1-7
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Do you know that all of that is a fabrication? It is a story that was made up and later added to the Bible to support the new message that was being brought to the people. No Muslim told me this. Christian scholars did. Christian scholars also told me that we don't have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original text.


Now I don't know about you but that worried me a lot. But I initially ignored it and went on believing in this message that we'd all be saved if we just had faith and believed that Jesus, pbuh, would save us. Then I learned that the Trinity was a concept that was added to the Bible about two centuries after Jesus, pbuh, was here. I was fine with that because it was a concept that made absolutely no sense to me and made no sense to the scholars even who taught it. I was fine with letting that go. Then the more I learned about Christianity, I saw that there were more than 30,000 different types of Christianity. If they're all teaching from the same book, then why so many? Which one is right Christianity? Furthermore, there are versions of the Bible which call the One God, ALLAH. Many of them are out of print in the West for obvious reasons.

Another example from the Bible was this character Lilith. It is a story in Jewish mythology. If you look back in history you would find in old versions of the Bible her name shows up. It is said in these traditions that she was the first woman created but she was cast out of the Garden for not wanting to submit to Adam, pbuh, so she became a demon and was the cause of sorrow, misery, infertility and wet dreams for people. Look in your version of the Bible today and you won't find any mention of her anymore because her name was translated out of the Bible. This is what it used to say in
Isaiah 34:14

And there shall the beasts of the desert meet with the jackals, and the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; the Lilith also shall settle there, and find for herself a place of rest.

And this is what it says now:
14 Desert creatures will meet with hyenas,
and wild goats will bleat to each other;
there the night creatures will also lie down
and find for themselves places of rest.

Then another translation:

14 And wild animals shall meet with hyenas;
the wild goat shall cry to his fellow;
indeed, there the night bird settles
and finds for herself a resting place.

And another translation:
14The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

So she goes from being a woman, to a night creature, to a bird and in some translations an owl. What is she then? Furthermore, we know that this story isn't true so why is it even referenced in the Bible to begin with?

This just goes to show you how unreliable translations are. And we also know that Muhammad (pbuh) appears in the Bible but was translated OUT of current Biblical texts for obvious reasons.

Further going into history, you would find that if any of the current Christians said what they say about Jesus, pbuh, today, you would be killed for blasphemy! Even James, his own brother, did not look at Jesus, pbuh, as divine but rather a prophet and messenger of the One God. So tell me, would you rather believe the word of Paul, a man who never even met Jesus, over his own brother who was there with him when he was on the earth?

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

And if we look toward the context of this verse, he is looking up the heavens and praying! What you need to do is get a red letter Bible. Look at the message that Jesus taught and then look at the message that Paul taught. They're not the same. Essentially Paul is saying in the Bible that while Jesus, pbuh, was here, he couldn't do what he was supposed to to get the word out so Paul had to be inspired to do it and correct what Jesus taught to the people!

It matters not if you think that you don't follow the teachings of Paul but at the end of the day you follow what Paul taught. That is what is being taught. Of all of the monotheistic religions, Christianity is the only one that reveres other people and saints in some forms of it instead of praying to ONE God alone with no intermediaries.

We can sit here and go back and forth and talking about what we "think" is the concept of God and what he is supposed to be and what his message means. Sure, you can do that in the Bible since many Christians believe that throughout the years many different people were "inspired" and wrote those thoughts down in addition to fabrications and other false concepts that weren't originally apart of the Bible or taught by ANY of the prophets, peace be upon them all. Only in the Quran is it laid out exactly what it always HAS been and always will be. Trying to reinterpret it to fit what you want to hear is not going to change the fact that you are to worship ONE God, and do good works. Yes, it is all about faith and I believe that the life of Jesus, pbuh, was an amazing way to show the people on a serious level that there is one God based on all of the amazing miracles that God allowed him to do in his lifetime. But to mix it up with all of that falsehood really is a disservice to yourself. The first commandment is the first commandment for a reason.

My advice is to go to the source text in the original languages, READ, if you can try and learn the Greek and Hebrew languages so you can see for yourself some of the translation errors and see what was changed. Jesus, pbuh, did not speak English but more closely one of the Semitic languages known as Aramaic. English didn't come around until about 900 years ago and you get into a lot of trouble trying to translate the word of God from a translation that's not even in the original language to begin with.





Originally Posted by Aprender
And you're not listening to anything anyone is saying to you here. You continuously quote the Bible and say the Bible said this, the Bible said that but do you understand that the Bible that you are reading is not even the same Bible as it was 400 years ago let alone 2,000 years ago? Some Bible scholars today are even saying that HALF of the New Testament is forged. Yet instead of listening, reading, and learning, you sit here and quote a book where the original is no longer even around for comparison--a book where we know that stories were added in, taken out, names of people purposely mistranslated but yet you still continue to quote it as if it is the infallible word of God. Where books were written that say that Jesus said things when the people who wrote them never even met Jesus (pbuh). That's where the issue arises here in the book itself. We don't know where the original Injeel is and if someone has it then they'd do a great service to the world by bringing it forward.

Look, I know this is tough but when I was searching for the truth I prayed to God and God alone and Allah swt guided me to Islam. I spent nearly 4 years going back and forth through different translations of the Bible, reading, comparing and the more I learned the more I got closer to Islam and I didn't want to accept it as the truth because it meant everything that I had learned in my life wasn't quite right. It takes more than light to be guided my brother. We sit here and claim to love God but continuously disobey Him by following what is obvious falsehood. We come up with metaphors and creative interpretations to make what is wrong, right. God said not to have any other gods before him, but we somehow put one of His prophets before Him, the Almighty! In ISLAM we believe that Allah swt is closer to us than the veins in our necks. He knows exactly what we are thinking and He tells us in the Quran that when we remember Him, He remembers us. When take one step toward Him, He comes running to us.

But somehow there are these concepts that have been introduced that have some in believing arrogantly that they are "saved" just because they believe. That's another trick of Satan. When you believe that you are good enough to be in the presence of the Almighty God then you really need to check yourself. You were created for nothing more than to worship Him and the least you can do is a human being is learn how to do it in the correct way.

My advice to you is to stop for a moment. Unlearn everything that you've learned and come toward the concept of God as if you are a child and read and learn for yourself. What makes sense and what doesn't make sense? Truth easily stands out from falsehood.



Originally Posted by YusufNoor
the Qur'an exists as it was completed by revelation. no single Bible existence, is complete. NONE! they all have changes.

no one knows who wrote the majority of the New Testament. the 4 Gospels can't even agree on what day Jesus, pbuh, was allegedly executed. nor cam Matthew and Luke agree that Jesus was from Nazareth or Galilee.

Paul even claims that he taught a different Gospel than the one taught by the disciples of Jesus, pbuh.

i'll stick to the Qur'an, thank you very much. at least we know what it is!

have a nice day!



Originally Posted by YusufNoor

the only thing that you could convince us of is that you are misguided.

as for who get's into heaven, Allah, and Allah alone decides that. one get's into heaven by Allah/s mercy, not by deeds.

i've never seen any contemporaneous evidence that suggests that what is called Christianity today, is what Jesus and his followers believed.

if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is it that the Qur'an, in it's original language, was completed BEFORE the New Testament was in it's original language?

if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is that Islamic beliefs were established BEFORE Christians figured out exactly what it takes to be a Christian, and in which there is still wide spread disagreement today?

if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is it that Muslims follow the teachings of a Prophet of God, but Christians don't even follow what Jesus taught?

if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is that if both the "Bible" and the Qur'an were completely destroyed, Muslims could recreate the Qur'an in a matter of days, while Christians could NEVER recreate their Bible? the task of recreating the Bible can never happen because, even today. Christians cannot agree on what the Bible is supposed to be?

if you think your "investigation" is over, i would suggest that you need a new investigator!



Originally Posted by جوري

Interesting, can you take this quiz and tell me how you score? For God doesn't author confusion of course

http://exchristian.net/3/
Reply

talibilm
06-09-2017, 04:40 AM
Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Hi guys.

I don't know where to post this, but the Lord has been laying it on my heart for the past few days to tell people about Jesus. This burden is so strong that I have felt sick and very desperate to reach out to others and tell them about Jesus.
I asked my Pastor if there were any ministries I could do through my church to serve God, but all he said to me was that if there was anything, he'd let me know. God has been driving me to serve Him so bad that I don't think I can wait much longer for an answer from my Pastor, I am desperate here and I don't think he understands just how urgent it is to witness to the lost. People are dying and going to Hell. That is no laughing matter.

So I am going to write a post and witness to the lost on here...

Dear person much loved by the Lord,

Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners like you and me. Have you ever thought about what happens after you die? I have. It has brought me much anxiety thinking about it, because I know that this life does not last forever and one day, we all will die.

A lot of people today do not think about where they will spend eternity, and this thinking is a big mistake.

But what happens after death? The Bible is the only book that can tell us what happens to us after we die. God Himself wrote this great book; it is probably the most important book that was ever written.

Do you mind if I quote some Scriptures? Some people get offended when I quote the Bible, but I never do. Do you know why? Because I am a Christian and I believe that Jesus is my Saviour. The Bible says so. And with that being said, I will give you some Bible verses to help you and educate you.

So what happens after we die? The Bible teaches that man is a tripart being composed of spirit, soul, and a fleshly body. At death, our souls separate from our body and goes back to God to be judged by Him. God will judge everything we do in the body, whether good or bad.

But here is the bad news. You see, nobody is truly a good person. You see, only God is truly good.

Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever hated anyone? If you have, then you have sinned. Killing others is also a sin, and yet you hear every day on the news that someone has murdered somebody else. Why? Because mankind are sinners and on their way to a burning Hell.

Rom 3:23 :
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Now that you know that no one is good in God's eyes, how do we then become good? How do we become vindicated before God? The Bible teaches that we need to have Jesus' righteousness but the only way to do that is to come to Him by faith:

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

So you see that you need to believe in your heart that God raised up Jesus from the dead, and you also need to confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is the Lord.

If you die without Christ, you will spend eternity in Hell. In our modern world today, people think that Hell is a place of never-ending parties and good times. They think that all of their friends will be there. But that is far from the truth. You would think that these people have never read the Bible, or that they have never taken it seriously.

The Bible teaches that Hell is a place of never-ending fire and torment, and my dear friend, that is not very much fun (this truth has scared a lot of people). It is a place of tears and no hope. It is darkness and loneliness. You won't be able to see anyone at all. It is eternal separation from God Himself. Since God is the Source of Joy and Happiness, that means that everything apart from Him is tears, sorrow, and no happiness. And that does not sound like very much fun at all, doesn't it?

So my dear friend, for your own eternal safety, I pray that you will accept Jesus Christ into your heart today, and make Him Lord over your life.

If you have done this, you need to find a Bible-believing church where you can grow in God's Word. And you also need to find out what God wants you to do with your life, so that you may serve Him.

Blessings,
Jacqueline

Hi Jacqueline ,

Sorry I did not read your full post a few first lines as bolded above , i 've been addressing such posts actively for a few years as in this thread here

http://www.ummah.com/forum/archive/i.../t-413768.html


but not that active these days .


With due consideration to your feelings,The Lord in your heart is not the Real Lord , but Satan (the mischievious) who takes man to extreme just make him and put him in pain & misguidance AWAY FROM HIS CREATOR . Yes Shaitan makes man feel Boring, terribly upset , Too much OR EXTREME Love, or extreme hate or its called waswas in islamic terms. This is how Adam was mislead too going against the commandment of His Lord, Allah.

I suggest you the read the NOBLE QURAN without PREJUDICE and know its from the Lord of Jesus who had been sending Prophets from the days of Adam untill the last Prophet till the last days of this world
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-09-2017, 05:41 AM
You guys she got scared off
Reply

MuhammadHamza1
06-09-2017, 06:22 AM
Originally Posted by JacquelineDeane
Hi guys.

I don't know where to post this, but the Lord has been laying it on my heart for the past few days to tell people about Jesus. This burden is so strong that I have felt sick and very desperate to reach out to others and tell them about Jesus. I asked my Pastor if there were any ministries I could do through my church to serve God, but all he said to me was that if there was anything, he'd let me know. God has been driving me to serve Him so bad that I don't think I can wait much longer for an answer from my Pastor, I am desperate here and I don't think he understands just how urgent it is to witness to the lost. People are dying and going to Hell. That is no laughing matter.

So I am going to write a post and witness to the lost on here...

Dear person much loved by the Lord,

Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners like you and me. Have you ever thought about what happens after you die? I have. It has brought me much anxiety thinking about it, because I know that this life does not last forever and one day, we all will die.

A lot of people today do not think about where they will spend eternity, and this thinking is a big mistake.

But what happens after death? The Bible is the only book that can tell us what happens to us after we die. God Himself wrote this great book; it is probably the most important book that was ever written.

Do you mind if I quote some Scriptures? Some people get offended when I quote the Bible, but I never do. Do you know why? Because I am a Christian and I believe that Jesus is my Saviour. The Bible says so. And with that being said, I will give you some Bible verses to help you and educate you.

So what happens after we die? The Bible teaches that man is a tripart being composed of spirit, soul, and a fleshly body. At death, our souls separate from our body and goes back to God to be judged by Him. God will judge everything we do in the body, whether good or bad.

But here is the bad news. You see, nobody is truly a good person. You see, only God is truly good.

Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever hated anyone? If you have, then you have sinned. Killing others is also a sin, and yet you hear every day on the news that someone has murdered somebody else. Why? Because mankind are sinners and on their way to a burning Hell.

Rom 3:23 :
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Now that you know that no one is good in God's eyes, how do we then become good? How do we become vindicated before God? The Bible teaches that we need to have Jesus' righteousness but the only way to do that is to come to Him by faith:

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

So you see that you need to believe in your heart that God raised up Jesus from the dead, and you also need to confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is the Lord.

If you die without Christ, you will spend eternity in Hell. In our modern world today, people think that Hell is a place of never-ending parties and good times. They think that all of their friends will be there. But that is far from the truth. You would think that these people have never read the Bible, or that they have never taken it seriously.

The Bible teaches that Hell is a place of never-ending fire and torment, and my dear friend, that is not very much fun (this truth has scared a lot of people). It is a place of tears and no hope. It is darkness and loneliness. You won't be able to see anyone at all. It is eternal separation from God Himself. Since God is the Source of Joy and Happiness, that means that everything apart from Him is tears, sorrow, and no happiness. And that does not sound like very much fun at all, doesn't it?

So my dear friend, for your own eternal safety, I pray that you will accept Jesus Christ into your heart today, and make Him Lord over your life.

If you have done this, you need to find a Bible-believing church where you can grow in God's Word. And you also need to find out what God wants you to do with your life, so that you may serve Him.

Blessings,
Jacqueline
I hope you will have a good debate with me.
So now.
Here are my questions.
1)-Human Sacrifice ia proven to be a Pagan tradition.How do you explain that.
2)-Do you think that the New Testament was written by Eye witnesses?
3)-Is the New Testament PRESERVED WORD of God?
4)-How can you prove to me that any verse of the Bible,is not an interpolation or a misquotation or a forgery,just like the last verses of Gospel of Mark,verse of Trinity,stort of adultereas woman etc?
4)-Why are no two manuscripts among the thousands of New Testament,similiar?
We must know these basic facts.We need to know how to read a book.
If Christianity is the true religion,There should be no problem answerimg these question.
Reply

MuhammadHamza1
06-09-2017, 06:33 AM
We must ask basic questions.
And to the people here,
Do not stray from the topic.
Watch these videos.
Can you blame us for not being Christians after this.
https://youtu.be/b-cZncVmtIU
https://youtu.be/AxiNy8mwHqM
https://youtu.be/GHJE7cetkB4
https://youtu.be/XtgfS40f0w4
https://youtu.be/mPiV_2tXRVc
https://youtu.be/WwJyPFVTdIo
There are many more.
But we have to go in an order.
View things critically.
Truth fears no investigation.
Quran encourages critical thinking.This is one of the main reasons I am a Muslim.
I have tons of more videos.
But we have to go in an order.
Reply

MuhammadHamza1
06-09-2017, 06:41 AM
https://youtu.be/k5XTxkmKHd8
Reply

tolpuddle
06-09-2017, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
It is according to your reasoning and your reasoning is false. According to the Islamic reasoning, trinitarian Christians worship two created beings as if they are God although they are not. It doesn't differ whether you are regarding them as one Deity or three separate deities. Both option are blesphemy.
No - Christians (who are, by definition, trinitarian) worship One UNcreated being - i.e. God.
Reply

tolpuddle
06-09-2017, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by MuhammadHamza1
I hope you will have a good debate with me.
So now.
Here are my questions.
1)-Human Sacrifice ia proven to be a Pagan tradition.How do you explain that.
2)-Do you think that the New Testament was written by Eye witnesses?
3)-Is the New Testament PRESERVED WORD of God?
4)-How can you prove to me that any verse of the Bible,is not an interpolation or a misquotation or a forgery,just like the last verses of Gospel of Mark,verse of Trinity,stort of adultereas woman etc?
4)-Why are no two manuscripts among the thousands of New Testament,similiar?
We must know these basic facts.We need to know how to read a book.
If Christianity is the true religion,There should be no problem answerimg these question.
On JD's behalf, a few quick answers to your questions:

2) Yes
3) Yes
4) The same question can be asked about any Sacred Book.

The story of the woman caught in adultery isn't an interpolation, but a piece of Luke's Gospel that became embedded in John's Gospel

Manuscripts always differ - unless they have been doctored or (as with the Quran) all but one version has been destroyed.
Reply

MuhammadHamza1
06-09-2017, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by tolpuddle
On JD's behalf, a few quick answers to your questions:

2) Yes
3) Yes
4) The same question can be asked about any Sacred Book.

The story of the woman caught in adultery isn't an interpolation, but a piece of Luke's Gospel that became embedded in John's Gospel

Manuscripts always differ - unless they have been doctored or (as with the Quran) all but one version has been destroyed.
I will adress other points.
But first let us discuss point number 4.
This is no answer.
If you listened to the first video,
You will understand the severe differences.
I am not saying the minor differences.
Such differnces occur while copying by hand.
But the contradictions are so much.
Now take the Quran.
We had hundreds if not thousands of people who had memorized it.
We have Tafsirs of Quran from early centuries and the verses of Quran in theie books of Tafsir,
Are exactly same.
God could have preserved the Originals of the New Testament.
We have forgeries in it and no two manuscripts are same.
HERE IS MY CASE.
When you think of God,what comes to your mind?
He is Perfect.
And so is his religion.
And so is his book.
It would have been no difficulty for him to preserve the originals.One way of doing it was by making people memorize it.Not one but many.So that there would have been no doubt.
This is a book of God.Not a biography by an ordinary people.
Yea they were normal people,but they were inspired through the Holy Spirit were they not?
God could have just preserved the Originals.It was no difficult task for him.The all powerful.
This is only one point.
I want to discuss this first.
I hope you do not mind.
Reply

Logikon
07-26-2017, 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by MuhammadHamza1
HERE IS MY CASE.
When you think of God,what comes to your mind?
He is Perfect.
And so is his religion.
And so is his book.
It would have been no difficulty for him to preserve the original


HERE IS MY CASE
Muslims claim that God wrote a book (the Koran) and Muslims preserved it.

Muslims claim that God wrote a book (the Bible) and it was not preserved. You are wrong!


Christians claim that God DID NOT write a book. Rather, the Bible is a collection of books written by different people.


You say "It would have been no difficulty for God to preserve the original". Well there was no book to preserve.


"Bible" comes from the word "Bibliography" which is the Greek for "library" Hence a collection of books.
.
Reply

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