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Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 05:46 AM
I have known many religious christians and know about many others who free mix with the opposite sex and have girlfriends and boyfriends but dont ever committ zina out of religious belief, or, for young people, a fear of getting diseases or getting a girl pregnant/becoming pregnant and interfering with studies. I knew a girl in my 12th grade class who free mixed with the opposite sex, was Mexican Hispanic, and got accepted into Harvard and will even be paid A STIPEND for going to UNDERGRAD. I know her friend, who is also a top student, and free mixes but commented that people who fornicate at this age (young adulthood/teenhood) are ruining their futures. I had a blue-collar, Republican-surrounded-by-Republican bus driver (who even watches such fox news morons as sean hannity) and says she tells her kids they dont have to go to college, and is very religious (as you can infer by her demographic) who seems shocked that muslims dont even talk to the opposite sex for fear of zina. i also knew an educated special ed teacher who was an evangelical religious christian (and a republican), who would get shocked when i described gender segregation to her, even as I explained the reasoning wholeheartedly. she even argued with me, saying it is perfectly fine for men and women to be friends.
she is one of the most religious christians i have known. christianity teaches not to fornicate, and its followers have no problem with this, yet we have to get even stricter for the same results, and end up turning the opposite sex into a sex object as a result (and this goes both ways). i also ask because soon, during eid, my mother and i are visiting a non gulenist, secularist turkish woman for eid, and she has a husband, and a daughter around my age (17 or 18, im 18). they probably wont segregate, and my mother doesn't practice it.
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najimuddin
06-23-2017, 06:39 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I have known many religious christians and know about many others who free mix with the opposite sex and have girlfriends and boyfriends but dont ever committ zina out of religious belief, or, for young people, a fear of getting diseases or getting a girl pregnant/becoming pregnant and interfering with studies. I knew a girl in my 12th grade class who free mixed with the opposite sex, was Mexican Hispanic, and got accepted into Harvard and will even be paid A STIPEND for going to UNDERGRAD. I know her friend, who is also a top student, and free mixes but commented that people who fornicate at this age (young adulthood/teenhood) are ruining their futures. I had a blue-collar, Republican-surrounded-by-Republican bus driver (who even watches such fox news morons as sean hannity) and says she tells her kids they dont have to go to college, and is very religious (as you can infer by her demographic) who seems shocked that muslims dont even talk to the opposite sex for fear of zina. i also knew an educated special ed teacher who was an evangelical religious christian (and a republican), who would get shocked when i described gender segregation to her, even as I explained the reasoning wholeheartedly. she even argued with me, saying it is perfectly fine for men and women to be friends.
she is one of the most religious christians i have known. christianity teaches not to fornicate, and its followers have no problem with this, yet we have to get even stricter for the same results, and end up turning the opposite sex into a sex object as a result (and this goes both ways). i also ask because soon, during eid, my mother and i are visiting a non gulenist, secularist turkish woman for eid, and she has a husband, and a daughter around my age (17 or 18, im 18). they probably wont segregate, and my mother doesn't practice it.
You really don't know what's going on behind closed doors. The rules of Hijab are in the best interest of all humankind.

The following story should illustrate that for you. Click on the link http://thomrainer.com/2015/08/ashley...nd-the-church/

There's more, much more.

Also, just reflect on what you're going through. That should really be enough for you to realize that free mixing isn't really a good idea.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 06:43 AM
Originally Posted by imdadullah
You really don't know what's going on behind closed doors. The rules of Hijab are in the best interest of all humankind.

The following story should illustrate that for you. Click on the link http://thomrainer.com/2015/08/ashley...nd-the-church/

There's more, much more.

Also, just reflect on what you're going through. That should really be enough for you to realize that free mixing isn't really a good idea.
what im going through has to do with lonliness and an obsession with the opposite sex CAUSED by gender segregation. if i chit chatted freely with a girl and treat her like...i don't know...a human being and a potential friend and later potential wife, wouldn't it be better? id kill two birds with one stone...i gain insight into girls my age and stop treating them like sex objects, and id make a friend without ever being alone or committing zina.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 06:44 AM
Originally Posted by imdadullah
You really don't know what's going on behind closed doors. The rules of Hijab are in the best interest of all humankind.

The following story should illustrate that for you. Click on the link http://thomrainer.com/2015/08/ashley...nd-the-church/

There's more, much more.

Also, just reflect on what you're going through. That should really be enough for you to realize that free mixing isn't really a good idea.
also, that still makes up a minority of the population, and it refers to adultery, not fornication.
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Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by imdadullah
You really don't know what's going on behind closed doors. The rules of Hijab are in the best interest of all humankind.

The following story should illustrate that for you. Click on the link http://thomrainer.com/2015/08/ashley...nd-the-church/

There's more, much more.

Also, just reflect on what you're going through. That should really be enough for you to realize that free mixing isn't really a good idea.
also, it is human nature to take risks for the sake of freedom. otherwise, it is the path to dystopianism (i dont know if you believe in movies, but if you do, try The Giver, or at least read the book)
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najimuddin
06-23-2017, 06:58 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
what im going through has to do with lonliness and an obsession with the opposite sex CAUSED by gender segregation. if i chit chatted freely with a girl and treat her like...i don't know...a human being and a potential friend and later potential wife, wouldn't it be better? id kill two birds with one stone...i gain insight into girls my age and stop treating them like sex objects, and id make a friend without ever being alone or committing zina.
Do you see girls at school?
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najimuddin
06-23-2017, 07:07 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
also, that still makes up a minority of the population, and it refers to adultery, not fornication.
That's the population you were talking about. And, in this example, the list of names was very long. Also, adultery is worse than fornication. There're stats on fornication in this population too, but I understand your situation.
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Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 07:11 AM
Originally Posted by imdadullah
Do you see girls at school?
yes, i do see girls at school
Reply

najimuddin
06-23-2017, 07:12 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
also, it is human nature to take risks for the sake of freedom. otherwise, it is the path to dystopianism (i dont know if you believe in movies, but if you do, try The Giver, or at least read the book)
Most of the Ummah, in fact, is suffering from cultural repression/oppression - among other ills. This seems to be a manifestation of such.
Reply

najimuddin
06-23-2017, 07:15 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
yes, i do see girls at school
Do you find any of them attractive?
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Eric H
06-23-2017, 07:18 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Mustafa16;

what im going through has to do with lonliness and an obsession with the opposite sex CAUSED by gender segregation.
The opposite sex is a huge temptation.

if i chit chatted freely with a girl and treat her like...i don't know...a human being and a potential friend and later potential wife,
Oscar Wilde famously said, I can resist everything............................Except temptation.

If you call yourself obsessed now, chit chatting with a girl may well increase your obsession, because you are talking about a future wife in the same sentence. Passion can be the result of one meaningful glance, and we can become very weak when it comes to the opposite sex.

We all face our struggles in life, wishing you every blessing and may your journey through Ramadan be accepted.

Eric
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talibilm
06-23-2017, 07:27 AM
You should listen to Uncle Ahmad Deedat's lectures about incest among Chrsitians of SA , when there is incest then the sky is the limit for others zinas, naudhubillah.

But Muslims are the real target for iblis , more than the Non Musllims.
Reply

Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 07:27 AM
Originally Posted by imdadullah
Do you find any of them attractive?
I just finished high school. i can never see them again. but yes, when i was there i found some attractive. and likely the same when i go to college.
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najimuddin
06-23-2017, 07:48 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I just finished high school. i can never see them again. but yes, when i was there i found some attractive. and likely the same when i go to college.
That's natural and a reason why the rules of Hijab exist in Islam. In your case, it's to prevent attraction to ghair-mahram women (sounds like a novel idea, huh?).

I recommend you visit the following link: http://www.muftisays.com/forums/12-v...-shaytaan.html

It has some important information about this.

Reply

sister herb
06-23-2017, 08:07 AM
Why do Christians free mix without zina but we can't....?
Neither Christians do free mix without "zina". If they do, they might not follow teachings of their religion. Why you would like to imitate people whose don´t follow their religion properly but looking for some justifications about bad behavior of others? Fornication, adultery, premarital sex are sins in both Islam and Christianity.
Reply

eesa the kiwi
06-23-2017, 09:01 AM
And how many Christians fell into zina due to their lax view of freemixing?
Bro these laws in Islam are a protection for you
Reply

keiv
06-23-2017, 09:21 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I have known many religious christians and know about many others who free mix with the opposite sex and have girlfriends and boyfriends but dont ever committ zina out of religious belief, or, for young people, a fear of getting diseases or getting a girl pregnant/becoming pregnant and interfering with studies. I knew a girl in my 12th grade class who free mixed with the opposite sex, was Mexican Hispanic, and got accepted into Harvard and will even be paid A STIPEND for going to UNDERGRAD. I know her friend, who is also a top student, and free mixes but commented that people who fornicate at this age (young adulthood/teenhood) are ruining their futures. I had a blue-collar, Republican-surrounded-by-Republican bus driver (who even watches such fox news morons as sean hannity) and says she tells her kids they dont have to go to college, and is very religious (as you can infer by her demographic) who seems shocked that muslims dont even talk to the opposite sex for fear of zina. i also knew an educated special ed teacher who was an evangelical religious christian (and a republican), who would get shocked when i described gender segregation to her, even as I explained the reasoning wholeheartedly. she even argued with me, saying it is perfectly fine for men and women to be friends.
she is one of the most religious christians i have known. christianity teaches not to fornicate, and its followers have no problem with this, yet we have to get even stricter for the same results, and end up turning the opposite sex into a sex object as a result (and this goes both ways). i also ask because soon, during eid, my mother and i are visiting a non gulenist, secularist turkish woman for eid, and she has a husband, and a daughter around my age (17 or 18, im 18). they probably wont segregate, and my mother doesn't practice it.
Do you really know this? Obviously, you can't paint everyone with the same brush. Some people do have a sense of self control and are able to limit themselves when free mixing. The more it happens though, the higher the chance of something happening. Even then, a simple conversation with a female friend while eating lunch together can lead you down the wrong path. It does not take much for 'things' to happen. Islam places the restriction on this as to prevent that risk all together. I don't live in a Muslim majority country or let alone know more than 2 Muslims outside my own family and I can tell you free mixing and zina here are rampant.

Originally Posted by Mustafa16
what im going through has to do with lonliness and an obsession with the opposite sex CAUSED by gender segregation. if i chit chatted freely with a girl and treat her like...i don't know...a human being and a potential friend and later potential wife, wouldn't it be better? id kill two birds with one stone...i gain insight into girls my age and stop treating them like sex objects, and id make a friend without ever being alone or committing zina.
That's all in your head.. There are no restrictions here where I live in the US of course, yet, look at how many women ARE treated like sex objects. Look at all the zina being committed here and everything that goes with it. We now have "friends with benefits" which means being able to sleep with your friends while having no attachments. Even married couples can be "swingers" where they meet other couples to perform sexual acts. Do you really think free mixing is the cure to your problems all the while blaming Islam for it? You're young and you're male. I can't imagine any of us not having gone through that when we were growing up. We all know the feeling. Being a Muslim is both a physical and mental commitment. If you feel weak in either of these things, you need to make dua and take it upon yourself to change.
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Simple_Person
06-23-2017, 09:26 AM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Neither Christians do free mix without "zina". If they do, they might not follow teachings of their religion. Why you would like to imitate people whose don´t follow their religion properly but looking for some justifications about bad behavior of others? Fornication, adultery, premarital sex are sins in both Islam and Christianity.
I have told him in previous topics, about all kind of things just like other brothers and sisters who could even explain things BETTER than me, this guy although young, but just doesn't care about what others say or have to say ..EVEN if it is according to wisdom OR Qur'an and Sunnah. Another brother on this forum also young, but is willing to listen and to process what somebody else says. if he is confused about something, he asks for clarification..in other words that other guy on the forum takes the role of a student. This guy wants to be the teacher and it rather looks like that such posts of his are not questions of wanting to know the answer, but rather to justify the actions he MIGHT be taken for in the future.

This guy is to me comparable to this guy (in the hadith), but on the other side not even that (as the guy in the hadith is open to listen to somebody else). The young guy with Rasullah(saws) is willing to use his mind, but this guy whatever we tell him..he behaves very arrogantly. I do not say somebody is arrogant very easily, because often there is rather the case of miscommunication. However this guy he doesn't want to think and rather follow his desires. Just as he always against starts ranting about whole pro-Gulen issue. A person who does not want to think, it rather looks like he is searching for the key to open door to misguidance. Allah is our witness that we have tried all different methods..being harsh in our wording or soft in our wording...it is all the same it looks like it.

==========Hadith=======

Abu Umamah reported: A young man came to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and he said, “O Messenger of Allah, give me permission to commit adultery.” The people turned to rebuke him, saying, “Quiet! Quiet!” The Prophet said, “Come here.” The young man came close and he told him to sit down. The Prophet said, “Would you like that for your mother?” The man said, “No, by Allah, may I be sacrificed for you. People would not like it for their mothers.” The Prophet said, “Would you like that for your daughter?” The man said, “No, by Allah, may I be sacrificed for you. People would not like it for their daughters.” The Prophet said, “Would you like that for your sister?” The man said, “No, by Allah, may I be sacrificed for you. People would not like it for their sisters.” The Prophet said, “Would you like that for your aunts?” The man said, “No, by Allah, may I be sacrificed for you. People would not like it for their aunts.” The Prophet placed his hand on him and he said, “O Allah, forgive his sins, purify his heart, and guard his chastity.” After that, the young man never again turned to anything sinful.

Source used: http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com...her-or-sister/
=========================
Reply

Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by keiv
Do you really know this? Obviously, you can't paint everyone with the same brush. Some people do have a sense of self control and are able to limit themselves when free mixing. The more it happens though, the higher the chance of something happening. Even then, a simple conversation with a female friend while eating lunch together can lead you down the wrong path. It does not take much for 'things' to happen. Islam places the restriction on this as to prevent that risk all together. I don't live in a Muslim majority country or let alone know more than 2 Muslims outside my own family and I can tell you free mixing and zina here are rampant.



That's all in your head.. There are no restrictions here where I live in the US of course, yet, look at how many women ARE treated like sex objects. Look at all the zina being committed here and everything that goes with it. We now have "friends with benefits" which means being able to sleep with your friends while having no attachments. Even married couples can be "swingers" where they meet other couples to perform sexual acts. Do you really think free mixing is the cure to your problems all the while blaming Islam for it? You're young and you're male. I can't imagine any of us not having gone through that when we were growing up. We all know the feeling. Being a Muslim is both a physical and mental commitment. If you feel weak in either of these things, you need to make dua and take it upon yourself to change.
so.......should I NOT go to visit that lady's house with my mother? EDIT: or should i request accomodation? i doubt they would take me seriously being a young un and all.
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Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 09:45 AM
Both women and men view women as sexual objects deep down in there psychology and don't realize it but if carefully analyze the mans action by allah the man is always using her a women can handle a friendship with a man and just be friends but a guy usually cannot it's impossible for him he literally thinks the entire time she likes me and usually his entire motive for being with a girl isn't just to be friends but it's because deep inside he wants some comfort even if it's not zina it's love that will later on go to zina by allah I'm in highschool and there's super goody too shoe kids they may not have sex all the time but according to what I've heard all the good kids participate in basically mating season during prom time they may look religious and they won't commit zina but really all they are doing is being super slow about it so they don't feel bad they make it slow so they get used to breaking the rules so they don't feel bad for sinning watch this video it goes through oppression on women from these ideas


https://youtu.be/PeEmSRl1Tk0
Reply

Abz2000
06-23-2017, 09:46 AM
Originally Posted by talibilm
You should listen to Uncle Ahmad Deedat's lectures about incest among Chrsitians of SA , when there is incest then the sky is the limit for others zinas, naudhubillah.

But Muslims are the real target for iblis , more than the Non Musllims.
JazakAllahukhayran fir the mention of Ahmed Deedat, I'm going to listen to some of his debates again InshaAllah.

His short "deedat hijab funny" answer is thoughtful.
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 09:47 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
I have told him in previous topics, about all kind of things just like other brothers and sisters who could even explain things BETTER than me, this guy although young, but just doesn't care about what others say or have to say ..EVEN if it is according to wisdom OR Qur'an and Sunnah. Another brother on this forum also young, but is willing to listen and to process what somebody else says. if he is confused about something, he asks for clarification..in other words that other guy on the forum takes the role of a student. This guy wants to be the teacher and it rather looks like that such posts of his are not questions of wanting to know the answer, but rather to justify the actions he MIGHT be taken for in the future.

This guy is to me comparable to this guy (in the hadith), but on the other side not even that (as the guy in the hadith is open to listen to somebody else). The young guy with Rasullah(saws) is willing to use his mind, but this guy whatever we tell him..he behaves very arrogantly. I do not say somebody is arrogant very easily, because often there is rather the case of miscommunication. However this guy he doesn't want to think and rather follow his desires. Just as he always against starts ranting about whole pro-Gulen issue. A person who does not want to think, it rather looks like he is searching for the key to open door to misguidance. Allah is our witness that we have tried all different methods..being harsh in our wording or soft in our wording...it is all the same it looks like it.

==========Hadith=======

Abu Umamah reported: A young man came to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and he said, “O Messenger of Allah, give me permission to commit adultery.” The people turned to rebuke him, saying, “Quiet! Quiet!” The Prophet said, “Come here.” The young man came close and he told him to sit down. The Prophet said, “Would you like that for your mother?” The man said, “No, by Allah, may I be sacrificed for you. People would not like it for their mothers.” The Prophet said, “Would you like that for your daughter?” The man said, “No, by Allah, may I be sacrificed for you. People would not like it for their daughters.” The Prophet said, “Would you like that for your sister?” The man said, “No, by Allah, may I be sacrificed for you. People would not like it for their sisters.” The Prophet said, “Would you like that for your aunts?” The man said, “No, by Allah, may I be sacrificed for you. People would not like it for their aunts.” The Prophet placed his hand on him and he said, “O Allah, forgive his sins, purify his heart, and guard his chastity.” After that, the young man never again turned to anything sinful.

Source used: http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com...her-or-sister/
=========================
Let's get back on the defensive side brother he is attacking let us defend let us not attack back
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 09:51 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
what im going through has to do with lonliness and an obsession with the opposite sex CAUSED by gender segregation. if i chit chatted freely with a girl and treat her like...i don't know...a human being and a potential friend and later potential wife, wouldn't it be better? id kill two birds with one stone...i gain insight into girls my age and stop treating them like sex objects, and id make a friend without ever being alone or committing zina.
No one in this oversexualized society that isn't married does not have some psychological programming deep in there brain about women in a sexual object manner not even women scientfic evidence concludes that even WOMEN view women as sexual objects. Imagine if every man walked around in super tight underwhere because that's basically what's happening to the women it's just we grew up with it so we don't consider it gross anymore
Reply

Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 09:53 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Let's get back on the defensive side brother he is attacking let us defend let us not attack back
hellllloooo? did you not see my post? im asking if i should not visit that secularist lady or just ask for accomodations????
Reply

talibilm
06-23-2017, 10:02 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
JazakAllahukhayran fir the mention of Ahmed Deedat, I'm going to listen to some of his debates again InshaAllah.

His short "deedat hijab funny" answer is thoughtful.
:sl:

Bro should watch '' Was Quran copied from the bible ? '' excellent answer from Uncle Deedat. May Allah give the best of the best rewards of Akirah to him for his hours of standings in lectures even our youth will not dare to do
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
what im going through has to do with lonliness and an obsession with the opposite sex CAUSED by gender segregation. if i chit chatted freely with a girl and treat her like...i don't know...a human being and a potential friend and later potential wife, wouldn't it be better? id kill two birds with one stone...i gain insight into girls my age and stop treating them like sex objects, and id make a friend without ever being alone or committing zina.
I would just like to point out the hypocrisy in this post because you say you can handle not committing zina yet in the same paragraph you say you have obsesssion with the opposite sex I have nothing against you I am not attacking you but your being contradictory I mean just the other day u said you sit there on your pillow and imagine it's a female and rub your private on it so how can you say you can handle zina allah has more wisdom then you don't question it and if you actually research his decision you'll see how wise it is
Reply

Mustafa16
06-23-2017, 10:07 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
I would just like to point out the hypocrisy in this post because you say you can handle not committing zina yet in the same paragraph you say you have obsesssion with the opposite sex I have nothing against you I am not attacking you but your being contradictory I mean just the other day u said you sit there on your pillow and imagine it's a female and rub your private on it so how can you say you can handle zina allah has more wisdom then you don't question it and if you actually research his decision you'll see how wise it is
I see @keiv , nor anybody, bothered to answer my question, and instead choose to continue to feed me the same arguments despite me agreeing with them
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 10:09 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I see @keiv , nor anybody, bothered to answer my question, and instead choose to continue to feed me the same arguments despite me agreeing with them
Here's a answer only allah and understanding to the Quran can help you rverytime u feel erect go pray 2 rukah
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 10:11 AM
All these "psychotherapy" and yada yada is garbage
Reply

Simple_Person
06-23-2017, 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Let's get back on the defensive side brother he is attacking let us defend let us not attack back
In discussions there are questions and there are answers. A question can be regarded as (attack) and a answer can be regarded as (defense). This however is for logical, rational and reasonable people.

There are in life people that will rant and question and question..for the sake of questioning or to justify (try to corner you) in to wanting to pursue what they desire.

This guys is NOT open for dialogue. When somebody is open for dialogue even if he/she does not agree..they at least have their argument which might be even a good argument. So in such cases we agree to disagree. In his cases, evidence on top of evidence on top of evidence is given..but he just doesn't care for evidence. He just wants to commit zina..that is all what he is interested in.

Now is my question to you or to anybody else, what can you do to prevent somebody from doing that? Talking doesn't help as he has closed his eyes and ears. A lost case is a lost case, admitting defeat is also part of the logical, rational and reasonable person. This guy when he even started this discussion was already on the right path as how he sees himself. So in a discussion the person that has closed his heart for input has already won the discussion as he/she is not willing to listen/ponder/process..etc.

I believe he in another topic said he was lightly autistic. Autistic people tend to not follow feelings, but STRONGLY follow logic, rationality and reason. Yet this even isn't to be found with him.
Reply

Simple_Person
06-23-2017, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
hellllloooo? did you not see my post? im asking if i should not visit that secularist lady or just ask for accomodations????
If you understood just SLIGHTLY what Islam was all about, you would not even have to ask this question. In Islam there is no burden on it. You can visit her..what is there wrong with. Purely Islamic principles is that women and men are not mixed with each other. What prevents you to go outside? Or do something else as your mother and that women will start women-talk..are you that interested in what they have to say?? Or just when you are even in the mixed mode to get a grip on your desires. You can also not tell me that EVERY day you visit such ladies with your mother. Grab your phone go read something on your phone when sitting there..do something ..you make things so black and white as if NO other thing you could do.

That is why i say ponder. Ponder about things and in'sha'Allah, Allah will give you a way out. Listening to Qur'an or anasheed with earpieces in or listening to some beneficial videos youtube that don't necessarily have to be religious. Or if there are other males you could go and hangout with them....THINK..there are so many ways out of it.

However you make yourself like a baby..that isn't able to feed himself..."oooh i am such a victim what Islam is doing to me"-mentality. There are in this day and age SOOO MANY ways one can keep themselves busy, but we have become sheep and only say that we can do one or two things.
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
In discussions there are questions and there are answers. A question can be regarded as (attack) and a answer can be regarded as (defense). This however is for logical, rational and reasonable people.

There are in life people that will rant and question and question..for the sake of questioning or to justify (try to corner you) in to wanting to pursue what they desire.

This guys is NOT open for dialogue. When somebody is open for dialogue even if he/she does not agree..they at least have their argument which might be even a good argument. So in such cases we agree to disagree. In his cases, evidence on top of evidence on top of evidence is given..but he just doesn't care for evidence. He just wants to commit zina..that is all what he is interested in.

Now is my question to you or to anybody else, what can you do to prevent somebody from doing that? Talking doesn't help as he has closed his eyes and ears. A lost case is a lost case, admitting defeat is also part of the logical, rational and reasonable person. This guy when he even started this discussion was already on the right path as how he sees himself. So in a discussion the person that has closed his heart for input has already won the discussion as he/she is not willing to listen/ponder/process..etc.

I believe he in another topic said he was lightly autistic. Autistic people tend to not follow feelings, but STRONGLY follow logic, rationality and reason. Yet this even isn't to be found with him.
1.sabr
2.yes it's logical to admit defeat buuutt that doesn't mean there's never hope he has a good heart there's just envy in it if you think about it allah guided him to a community full of Muslims what's his buisness here if all he cares about is sin and doesn't care about Islam I'm pretty sure he'll be guided inshallah
3.ive listened to somthing from nouman ali khan before people like this are not completely arrogant but they just have root problems root problems as in they need accoutciance in Islam and as he's said before he's tried to convert to jewdasiam so I mean he probably has a unsolved root problem nouman ali khan was saying that when you have a root problem if you answer any smaller question like why is pork haram they'll keep switching questions until they made a 360 degree turn and come back to the same question I'm sure we could answer his root problems and then move onto his smaller questions as that would be the most logical I actually have just realized this is probably his problem
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I see @keiv , nor anybody, bothered to answer my question, and instead choose to continue to feed me the same arguments despite me agreeing with them
Mustfa I have a feeling you have a root problem in your faith as you have had a past of questioning it and stuff such as that one time when you tried to convert to become a Jew so we can all answer any question but first let's address your root problem and fix it then we can go to smaller problems I'm sure you've had questions such as why should I be a Muslim and never got the question answered well Islam unlike other faiths has proof and logic and reasoning behind everything although of course some things are part of the unseen like the jinn so if you would like we can move to the private message or we can stay here or we can move to a different forum in case someone ever had a similar problem where would you like to discuss this?
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
If you understood just SLIGHTLY what Islam was all about, you would not even have to ask this question. In Islam there is no burden on it. You can visit her..what is there wrong with. Purely Islamic principles is that women and men are not mixed with each other. What prevents you to go outside? Or do something else as your mother and that women will start women-talk..are you that interested in what they have to say?? Or just when you are even in the mixed mode to get a grip on your desires. You can also not tell me that EVERY day you visit such ladies with your mother. Grab your phone go read something on your phone when sitting there..do something ..you make things so black and white as if NO other thing you could do.

That is why i say ponder. Ponder about things and in'sha'Allah, Allah will give you a way out. Listening to Qur'an or anasheed with earpieces in or listening to some beneficial videos youtube that don't necessarily have to be religious. Or if there are other males you could go and hangout with them....THINK..there are so many ways out of it.

However you make yourself like a baby..that isn't able to feed himself..."oooh i am such a victim what Islam is doing to me"-mentality. There are in this day and age SOOO MANY ways one can keep themselves busy, but we have become sheep and only say that we can do one or two things.
Brother stop attacking him seriously if your going to criticize him make it constructive criticizim
Reply

azc
06-23-2017, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I have known many religious christians and know about many others who free mix with the opposite sex and have girlfriends and boyfriends but dont ever committ zina out of religious belief, or, for young people, a fear of getting diseases or getting a girl pregnant/becoming pregnant and interfering with studies. I knew a girl in my 12th grade class who free mixed with the opposite sex, was Mexican Hispanic, and got accepted into Harvard and will even be paid A STIPEND for going to UNDERGRAD. I know her friend, who is also a top student, and free mixes but commented that people who fornicate at this age (young adulthood/teenhood) are ruining their futures. I had a blue-collar, Republican-surrounded-by-Republican bus driver (who even watches such fox news morons as sean hannity) and says she tells her kids they dont have to go to college, and is very religious (as you can infer by her demographic) who seems shocked that muslims dont even talk to the opposite sex for fear of zina. i also knew an educated special ed teacher who was an evangelical religious christian (and a republican), who would get shocked when i described gender segregation to her, even as I explained the reasoning wholeheartedly. she even argued with me, saying it is perfectly fine for men and women to be friends.
she is one of the most religious christians i have known. christianity teaches not to fornicate, and its followers have no problem with this, yet we have to get even stricter for the same results, and end up turning the opposite sex into a sex object as a result (and this goes both ways). i also ask because soon, during eid, my mother and i are visiting a non gulenist, secularist turkish woman for eid, and she has a husband, and a daughter around my age (17 or 18, im 18). they probably wont segregate, and my mother doesn't practice it.
Islam stops from free mixing with opposite gender, it's enough.
Reply

azc
06-23-2017, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Brother stop attacking him seriously if your going to criticize him make it constructive criticizim
OP seems to be influenced by others.

Islamic ruling concerning this issue can't be changed.

In your personal life you're free to do as you wish.
Reply

Simple_Person
06-23-2017, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
1.sabr
2.yes it's logical to admit defeat buuutt that doesn't mean there's never hope he has a good heart there's just envy in it if you think about it allah guided him to a community full of Muslims what's his buisness here if all he cares about is sin and doesn't care about Islam I'm pretty sure he'll be guided inshallah
3.ive listened to somthing from nouman ali khan before people like this are not completely arrogant but they just have root problems root problems as in they need accoutciance in Islam and as he's said before he's tried to convert to jewdasiam so I mean he probably has a unsolved root problem nouman ali khan was saying that when you have a root problem if you answer any smaller question like why is pork haram they'll keep switching questions until they made a 360 degree turn and come back to the same question I'm sure we could answer his root problems and then move onto his smaller questions as that would be the most logical I actually have just realized this is probably his problem
I agree with you with the root problem, however this all starts with thinking and wanting to solve the root problem. As i earlier said he said earlier he was somehow autistic, but people who are autistic would be very black and white in things, but do think when new information is put in the equation. However this he even does not do.

So far he i believe does not acknowledge to have any root problems, secondly does not want to solve things..but rather just want to head his own way.

Anyways, like i earlier said, he just want to follow the desires. I disagree with brother scrimitar on many things, but on some of the things i do fully agree with. The last thing this guy want is to listen to what somebody else has to say.
Reply

Simple_Person
06-23-2017, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Brother stop attacking him seriously if your going to criticize him make it constructive criticizim
There is constructive criticism, i fully agree with you. This however is for people who want to listen and want to ponder. Many people including i say something, but i am willing to listen to what somebody has to say to me..and more then not i get constructive criticism and i even welcome that, because then i can change things.

This isn't the "first" topic when i tried to have constructive criticism. I never just "attack/criticize" somebody out of the blue. It has a road and many things have happened before it comes to that. If somebody as you most probably have already read earlier in other topics tried to discuss things logically, rationally and reasonably. However in no topic he just sees that he is wrong or somehow. All he does is people must agree with him without even giving solid argument. I criticize his behavior so he might even ponder about what suddenly me coming up with this?

Just imagine..you are walking down the road somebody suddenly coming to you and shouting or criticize you..that would be very awkward..and you would rather ask yourself..what have i done to deserve this? However that is as i said not the case. Things have happened before. Such people need to be put on their place if they do not want to have some civilized discussion.
Reply

Umm♥Layth
06-23-2017, 04:06 PM
You guys REALLY need to work on your belief systems and find a middle ground. The opposite gender is NOT a sex object and if you think that the general population feels this way, you have a rude awakening coming. The only reason it seems like that to you right now is because you are young and still very immature. When you grow up and realize what a great responsibility a woman is, you won't feel the same anymore.

People tend to pay too much attention to what they cannot have instead of looking at what they can have and what they do have. That's why this obsession with the opposite gender happens.

Muslims don't just segregate out of "fear of zina", they segregate out of RESPECT AND HONOR for each other and for themselves. At least, that is how it used to be before society became the way it is today. A good man with the right head on his shoulders will look at a woman with lifelong companionship in mind. THERE ARE GOOD MEN who will save themselves for marriage, believe it. Not everyone falls into this hypersexualization trap.

I come from a hispanic background and my family is very conservative. My cousins had one boyfriend each who they presented to the family and married them. That's typical in traditional hispanic families and is CULTURAL not religious. Hispanic men are expected to ask for the woman's hand in marriage once she presents him to the family, or he will approach the father before being presented to the family. These families also practice segregation at home during parties and get togethers. Women typically stay inside the house and men outside. This is because not everyone is related and it is a way of keeping dignity and respect in the family. This behavior was passed down and is slowly changing because it isn't from religion anymore. Once upon a time it was, but not anymore. That's what happens when we allow culture to take over.

The focus on studies comes from support at home, not from choosing to freemix or not. My cousins all had uni paid for as well, graduated top of their class blah blah. That means nothing as far as freemixing. We are supposed to believe the best of each person, so if they claim they were virgins upon marriage, we have to believe them, but it doesn't mean it is the case. It doesn't means thinsg don't happen behind closed doors and it is extremely naive to believe that men and women can be friends. NEVER has that been the case in the history of humanity, no matter how much you try to justify it. Not because of objectification, but simply because up until 100 years ago, people understood the difference between men and women and they understood that the attraction that can spark between two is STRONG and difficult to stop once it is sparked. Not something you want to play with ;)

Furthermore, you know nothing about a person simply by talking to them. A person who appears religious on the outside can have a huge box of secrets you know nothing about! lol. Don't be naive.
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anatolian
06-23-2017, 04:12 PM
I think we must define the term "free mixing" at first. I see that it is used frequently but I doubt all the ones using the term know its definition at all. I really cant say I know. Is there an Arabic equavelent of it which is mentioned in Quran or sahih hadith?

For example, there are men and women in the same places where I work. Is this considered "free mixing"? If not what is considered ? What are the boundaries ?
Reply

azc
06-23-2017, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
I think we must define the term "free mixing" at first. I see that it is used frequently but I doubt all the ones using the term know its definition at all. I really cant say I know. Is there an Arabic equavelent of it which is mentioned in Quran or sahih hadith?

For example, there are men and women in the same places where I work. Is this considered "free mixing"? If not what is considered ? What are the boundaries ?
From Islamic point of view it's also not allowed but it appears working at the same places isn't objectionable in your eyes.
And this is the point whence differences in opinion come out. Those who're close to mentality of progressive Muslims consider it correct whereas those who strictly follow the shariah disagree with you.
Reply

Simple_Person
06-23-2017, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by azc
From Islamic point of view it's also not allowed but it appears working at the same places isn't objectionable in your eyes.
And this is the point whence differences in opinion come out. Those who're close to mentality of progressive Muslims consider it correct whereas those who strictly follow the shariah disagree with you.
An uncle on this forum a time back gave a very good perspective on even working together. He brought up the time when Musa(as) approached the two ladies and asked them what is going on. They telling him the situation and instead of Musa(as) saying to the two sisters go and still give the animals something to drink among those men that also were giving water to their animals, he instead grabbed those animals and brought them to the place of watering.

That uncle said indeed this shows that even WORKING together is not allowed, which from that perspective i even agreed to it.
Reply

anatolian
06-23-2017, 08:28 PM
In order to decide which is considered what which is not I believe we must firstly define that thing. I have yet to seen a definition of free mixing.
Reply

azc
06-23-2017, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
In order to decide which is considered what which is not I believe we must firstly define that thing. I have yet to seen a definition of free mixing.
How do you define free mixing...?
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Umm[emoji813
Layth;2968268]You guys REALLY need to work on your belief systems and find a middle ground. The opposite gender is NOT a sex object and if you think that the general population feels this way, you have a rude awakening coming. The only reason it seems like that to you right now is because you are young and still very immature. When you grow up and realize what a great responsibility a woman is, you won't feel the same anymore.

People tend to pay too much attention to what they cannot have instead of looking at what they can have and what they do have. That's why this obsession with the opposite gender happens.

Muslims don't just segregate out of "fear of zina", they segregate out of RESPECT AND HONOR for each other and for themselves. At least, that is how it used to be before society became the way it is today. A good man with the right head on his shoulders will look at a woman with lifelong companionship in mind. THERE ARE GOOD MEN who will save themselves for marriage, believe it. Not everyone falls into this hypersexualization trap.

I come from a hispanic background and my family is very conservative. My cousins had one boyfriend each who they presented to the family and married them. That's typical in traditional hispanic families and is CULTURAL not religious. Hispanic men are expected to ask for the woman's hand in marriage once she presents him to the family, or he will approach the father before being presented to the family. These families also practice segregation at home during parties and get togethers. Women typically stay inside the house and men outside. This is because not everyone is related and it is a way of keeping dignity and respect in the family. This behavior was passed down and is slowly changing because it isn't from religion anymore. Once upon a time it was, but not anymore. That's what happens when we allow culture to take over.

The focus on studies comes from support at home, not from choosing to freemix or not. My cousins all had uni paid for as well, graduated top of their class blah blah. That means nothing as far as freemixing. We are supposed to believe the best of each person, so if they claim they were virgins upon marriage, we have to believe them, but it doesn't mean it is the case. It doesn't means thinsg don't happen behind closed doors and it is extremely naive to believe that men and women can be friends. NEVER has that been the case in the history of humanity, no matter how much you try to justify it. Not because of objectification, but simply because up until 100 years ago, people understood the difference between men and women and they understood that the attraction that can spark between two is STRONG and difficult to stop once it is sparked. Not something you want to play with ;)

Furthermore, you know nothing about a person simply by talking to them. A person who appears religious on the outside can have a huge box of secrets you know nothing about! lol. Don't be naive.
As I said no one and I mean no one exposed to this overly sexualized enviorment doesn't have some deep psychological programming deep inside them making them view women differently I would say the average Muslim doesn't have very much and we usually are not aware of the view due to the fact that it's buried deep within us every time we for example are at school and a female try's to flirt with you or is dressed improperly or anything like that and I mean even women have some psychological programming done on them so they act as if women are sexual objects too the Muslim usually has it deep inside them and we will never be able to get rid of it unless we go somewhere like a Muslim land but the kuffar they openly have those views like they are fully aware that they basically view the women as a sexual object they just sortve lie to themselves and think that they don't but then in like a few minutes the same kuffar will be talking about stereotypes to women and only talking about a women's body and things like that what I mean is practicing Muslims also have this view deep inside them but it's soooo minimal that ittl never affect your conicousness it could affect subconscious decisions though and even women have fallen for the trap and it's been scientifically proved by straight up connecting wires to a human beings brain and this isn't just on women some women view men as sexual objects too it just depends on what environment we both are in when we are in a hyper sexualized environment it will change our psychology but that doesn't mean we can't change it and shun those ideas whenever we realize we get a thought like that
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-23-2017, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
There is constructive criticism, i fully agree with you. This however is for people who want to listen and want to ponder. Many people including i say something, but i am willing to listen to what somebody has to say to me..and more then not i get constructive criticism and i even welcome that, because then i can change things.

This isn't the "first" topic when i tried to have constructive criticism. I never just "attack/criticize" somebody out of the blue. It has a road and many things have happened before it comes to that. If somebody as you most probably have already read earlier in other topics tried to discuss things logically, rationally and reasonably. However in no topic he just sees that he is wrong or somehow. All he does is people must agree with him without even giving solid argument. I criticize his behavior so he might even ponder about what suddenly me coming up with this?

Just imagine..you are walking down the road somebody suddenly coming to you and shouting or criticize you..that would be very awkward..and you would rather ask yourself..what have i done to deserve this? However that is as i said not the case. Things have happened before. Such people need to be put on their place if they do not want to have some civilized discussion.
Chapter (3) sūrat āl ʿim'rān (The Family of Imrān)



Sahih International: So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah. Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him].



If your kind and he doesn't follow along then it won't make a difference if your rude I don't know what's in the brothers heart but I do know that anyone who truly is arrogant will just get more arrogant when your rude to them

I'm not acting like a angle often times I will do the same thing like it's possible I've done it on Islamic board and not realized it or the times that I've done it to my dad by arguing and screaming at eachover and stuff but like I've acknowledged it and am after every situation trying to fix it and stuff inshallah one day I can have a bunch of sabr for that is probably one of the most important things for a Muslim to have
Reply

Simple_Person
06-24-2017, 12:34 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
Chapter (3) sūrat āl ʿim'rān (The Family of Imrān)



Sahih International: So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah. Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him].



If your kind and he doesn't follow along then it won't make a difference if your rude I don't know what's in the brothers heart but I do know that anyone who truly is arrogant will just get more arrogant when your rude to them

I'm not acting like a angle often times I will do the same thing like it's possible I've done it on Islamic board and not realized it or the times that I've done it to my dad by arguing and screaming at eachover and stuff but like I've acknowledged it and am after every situation trying to fix it and stuff inshallah one day I can have a bunch of sabr for that is probably one of the most important things for a Muslim to have
Brother I agree with everything you said, but why I do or say what I do/say to this guy hasn't to do with being rude or harsh out of the blue.

Let me rephrase it.

I open for example a topic in that topic I say this.

"Why aren't we Muslims allowed to pray side by side with sisters?"

The first comment replies..because Rasullah (saws) did not do that in his time.

I reply ...I know that but I want to understand why.

I get a reply on it saying "besides touching certain madhab say that when you touch another non-Mahram you lose your wudu.

I disagree with what is being said and rather say it is sexist.

Another reply says to me "the male could get distracted during the prayer"

I reply..but I am strong and I don't get distracted so I find it rather superfiscial to also force such strong people like me to not pray side by side with sisters.

Another reply says "Allah says do not APPROACH zina and praying side by side might lead one thing to another"..

I say I am strong and not tempted so why again force me to follow such a rule.

Another comment says Rasullah (saws) has made it so and we obey what Rasullah (saws) has told us to do.

=================

You see there is WANTING to know why something is what it is...although different people give different part of the wisdom behind it ..you listen..you process and you agree to it. The other person rather just doesn't agree to the ruling because he himself compares everything how others do.

With such people if it is yet again the x amount of time that that individual questions Islam but not for the sake of wanting to listen or process what others say that rather looks like a troll. However this forum many other people also reading the topics and such people just create chaos instead of really looking for guidance through other brothers and sisters.

I would say go do your best and in'sha'Allah you will get through to him what many of us have failed to do so.
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-24-2017, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Brother I agree with everything you said, but why I do or say what I do/say to this guy hasn't to do with being rude or harsh out of the blue.

Let me rephrase it.

I open for example a topic in that topic I say this.

"Why aren't we Muslims allowed to pray side by side with sisters?"

The first comment replies..because Rasullah (saws) did not do that in his time.

I reply ...I know that but I want to understand why.

I get a reply on it saying "besides touching certain madhab say that when you touch another non-Mahram you lose your wudu.

I disagree with what is being said and rather say it is sexist.

Another reply says to me "the male could get distracted during the prayer"

I reply..but I am strong and I don't get distracted so I find it rather superfiscial to also force such strong people like me to not pray side by side with sisters.

Another reply says "Allah says do not APPROACH zina and praying side by side might lead one thing to another"..

I say I am strong and not tempted so why again force me to follow such a rule.

Another comment says Rasullah (saws) has made it so and we obey what Rasullah (saws) has told us to do.

=================

You see there is WANTING to know why something is what it is...although different people give different part of the wisdom behind it ..you listen..you process and you agree to it. The other person rather just doesn't agree to the ruling because he himself compares everything how others do.

With such people if it is yet again the x amount of time that that individual questions Islam but not for the sake of wanting to listen or process what others say that rather looks like a troll. However this forum many other people also reading the topics and such people just create chaos instead of really looking for guidance through other brothers and sisters.

I would say go do your best and in'sha'Allah you will get through to him what many of us have failed to do so.
I understand that you used to be gentle with him I was just giving you advice and a reminder or maybe that's not true because I did keep replying over it if I was giving a reminder I probably would've said only one thing now wouldn't I but I kept defending my opinion
Reply

Simple_Person
06-24-2017, 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
I understand that you used to be gentle with him I was just giving you advice and a reminder or maybe that's not true because I did keep replying over it if I was giving a reminder I probably would've said only one thing now wouldn't I but I kept defending my opinion
Your opinion isn't bad or wrong but do right now the necessary struggle with the this guy and then you will realize that there are people that just want to complain or want to justify their corrupt way of thinking or even attack Islam because it doesn't fit their narative. Be lenient towards people who act all harsh towards you..be gentle with them although they might not be towards you.

The ignorant ones also be gentle with them.

The troll however is just wasting your time and his own time. Off course do not be rude to the troll but make it known to other people that it is a troll and people should not spent time on what be says.

So do your best and what majority of us did not get through to him you might be. May Allah give you strength and sabr.
Reply

.alhamdulillah.
06-24-2017, 01:20 AM
Didn't women and men in the time of the Prophet do business together, communicate with eachother, etc....

Who says it is wrong at all for men and women to be around eachother at all, as long as there is a purpose behind it? Is there actual Islamic evidence for that are just extreme conservatism even past what the sahabas and Prophet/Quran have implemented.
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-24-2017, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
Didn't women and men in the time of the Prophet do business together, communicate with eachother, etc....

Who says it is wrong at all for men and women to be around eachother at all, as long as there is a purpose behind it? Is there actual Islamic evidence for that are just extreme conservatism even past what the sahabas and Prophet/Quran have implemented.
There's a difference between being friends and like joking around and all that stuff which leads to zina

And then treating someone like a normal human being as in actually genuinely asking them hey what's 5 + 5 not hey do you want to do "homework" at my house ya know? Even musa (as) approached those 2 ladies asking them what they where doing and if they needed help in some situations it's ok allah is completely okay with you talking to them and stuff but he's not okay with you trusting them (friendship) and even softening your voice to talk to them and stuff

For example even if you where going up to them to ask somthing like hey I heard I'm going to iftar at your house what's for lunch? Or somthing like that even a genuine question needs a way to saying it like you can't soften your voice and stuff

Like this video would describe it better I'm pretty sure it's been shared on IB before but it's about 5 minutes long and describes what I'm saying

https://youtu.be/KUh_6xSVeMQ
Reply

Ibn Yaqzan
06-24-2017, 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
hellllloooo? did you not see my post? im asking if i should not visit that secularist lady or just ask for accomodations????
You are a weird person. You really got some issues. I feel bad about posting it, but I have to. What is up with your attitude? Securalist lady?

Learn some manners first. When you see that lady are you gonna call to her by saying: hello secularist lady I am here. Stop that because it is backbiting.
Reply

.alhamdulillah.
06-24-2017, 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by Bobbyflay23
There's a difference between being friends and like joking around and all that stuff which leads to zina

And then treating someone like a normal human being as in actually genuinely asking them hey what's 5 + 5 not hey do you want to do "homework" at my house ya know? Even musa (as) approached those 2 ladies asking them what they where doing and if they needed help in some situations it's ok allah is completely okay with you talking to them and stuff but he's not okay with you trusting them (friendship) and even softening your voice to talk to them and stuff

For example even if you where going up to them to ask somthing like hey I heard I'm going to iftar at your house what's for lunch? Or somthing like that even a genuine question needs a way to saying it like you can't soften your voice and stuff

Like this video would describe it better I'm pretty sure it's been shared on IB before but it's about 5 minutes long and describes what I'm saying

https://youtu.be/KUh_6xSVeMQ
What you are saying is exactly what I mean - when their is a purpose it's fine, but nowadays to say it is haram for women and men to even be together at all, or that all religious events and masjids have to be segregated 100% and if they are not it's haram and if a man comes they get the door slammed in their face.... that time of extremism is what seems to be messed up nowadays.

The haram label thrown on every type of male/female interaction or gathering is what's annoying and I haven't seen proof it is haram, even if it may be better.
Reply

Bobbyflay23
06-24-2017, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
What you are saying is exactly what I mean - when their is a purpose it's fine, but nowadays to say it is haram for women and men to even be together at all, or that all religious events and masjids have to be segregated 100% and if they are not it's haram and if a man comes they get the door slammed in their face.... that time of extremism is what seems to be messed up nowadays.

The haram label thrown on every type of male/female interaction or gathering is what's annoying and I haven't seen proof it is haram, even if it may be better.
Yea but the reason why we are saying haram and stuff is because mustfa basically wants to befriend females and stuff
Reply

Mustafa16
06-24-2017, 06:26 AM
Guys? I already decided not to free mix? what on earth are you guys debating over? did you not read my post?
Reply

Simple_Person
06-24-2017, 07:10 AM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
Didn't women and men in the time of the Prophet do business together, communicate with eachother, etc....

Who says it is wrong at all for men and women to be around eachother at all, as long as there is a purpose behind it? Is there actual Islamic evidence for that are just extreme conservatism even past what the sahabas and Prophet/Quran have implemented.
I totally agree with you and I am not saying it is forbidden to do business with each other. However the mixing part is something else.

From the example of Musa (as) with the two sisters and their animals shows they can also work. Musa (as) also approached them in a very direct manner ..not first all soft and giggly or saying hello first...but he just went directly to the point. Which indicates indeed doing business or talking to one another is permissible. The mixing part is not. So let's say a woman has a shop next to her shop is the shop there is another shop and it belongs to a man. All permissible..

But a man working at the woman's shop who is non-mahram one could say is not permissible. However that story of Musa (as) can be interpeted different ways. For example women can work in the same company as long as they are not mixed. The contact between them is direct and strictly professional and kept to a minimum.

So set such rulings but do not mix when working.
Reply

Simple_Person
06-24-2017, 07:16 AM
Originally Posted by Ibn Yaqzan
You are a weird person. You really got some issues. I feel bad about posting it, but I have to. What is up with your attitude? Securalist lady?

Learn some manners first. When you see that lady are you gonna call to her by saying: hello secularist lady I am here. Stop that because it is backbiting.
Brother, every one of us got their own issues and faults. Please on such things still be polite when trying to address him.

He maybe did not know about that or that approach being bad. Just educate him so he knows and understands it. If he still says what I am doing or saying is good and nothing wrong with it when you know better then things become different.

But be polite. JazakAllah khairan
Reply

Mustafa16
07-05-2017, 10:29 AM
Everyone! I forgot to mention! I went over to the Turkish lady's house for Eid on the last day of Eid, and her daughter was very sick and upstairs in her bed, so I didn't get a chance to see her anyway. My mother said we could visit them once every two weeks during my college, and I could be friends with the girl, but she warned me not to have a romantic relationship. I think perhaps it is better if I just don't talk to her at all, based on what you all are telling me, what say you?
Reply

Ibn Yaqzan
07-05-2017, 12:30 PM
Any relationship between a man and woman is forbidden not only romantic. So you have to be careful. Follow the quran and sunnah, otherwise you will end up regretting your actions.
Reply

azc
07-05-2017, 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
Everyone! I forgot to mention! I went over to the Turkish lady's house for Eid on the last day of Eid, and her daughter was very sick and upstairs in her bed, so I didn't get a chance to see her anyway. My mother said we could visit them once every two weeks during my college, and I could be friends with the girl, but she warned me not to have a romantic relationship. I think perhaps it is better if I just don't talk to her at all, based on what you all are telling me, what say you?
you sound weak in controlling your heart from falling in love or at least infatuation. So keep a distance from this new girl.
Reply

Mustafa16
07-05-2017, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Yaqzan
Any relationship between a man and woman is forbidden not only romantic. So you have to be careful. Follow the quran and sunnah, otherwise you will end up regretting your actions.
brother, first of all, are you wahhabi? second, how else am I going to get married when my father is very distant from me and often gets angry with me and doesn't talk to me due to divorce and us living far off, and my mother being somewhat secular (she uses riba, doesn't wear hijab, eats non zabiha meat, listens to music, free mixes, etc.) and her expecting me to find someone on my own, and only occasionally says she'll find me someone, and she isn't religious to begin with, and her friends are all gulenist.....and all the muslims i know in person being gulenist (search gulen movement, if you dont know what im talking about), and many of them hating me so that's also an issue despite the fact that the vast majority of them practice gender segregation, and my options being limited, and me having autism thus leading to possible misunderstandings if I was to have a "quick marriage" rather than long term friendship......what should i do? also, ill be supervised the whole time, so i still dont FULLY see how its an issue, but i know deep down it is forbidden.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Ibn Yaqzan
Any relationship between a man and woman is forbidden not only romantic. So you have to be careful. Follow the quran and sunnah, otherwise you will end up regretting your actions.
brother, first of all, are you wahhabi? second, how else am I going to get married when my father is very distant from me and often gets angry with me and doesn't talk to me due to divorce and us living far off, and my mother being somewhat secular (she uses riba, doesn't wear hijab, eats non zabiha meat, listens to music, free mixes, etc.) and her expecting me to find someone on my own, and only occasionally says she'll find me someone, and she isn't religious to begin with, and her friends are all gulenist.....and all the muslims i know in person being gulenist (search gulen movement, if you dont know what im talking about), and many of them hating me so that's also an issue despite the fact that the vast majority of them practice gender segregation, and my options being limited, and me having autism thus leading to possible misunderstandings if I was to have a "quick marriage" rather than long term friendship......what should i do? also, ill be supervised the whole time, so i still dont FULLY see how its an issue, but i know deep down it is forbidden.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Ibn Yaqzan
Any relationship between a man and woman is forbidden not only romantic. So you have to be careful. Follow the quran and sunnah, otherwise you will end up regretting your actions.
also, i am scared to approach new islamic insitutions due to their political beliefs and potential extremism or political nature of their mosques. and because i am shy and have autism.
Reply

Serinity
07-05-2017, 05:58 PM
:salam:

Men and women can not just be "Friends". Men will eventually develop feelings. That is how we are created.

Look at this video for proof:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...e+just+friends
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