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.alhamdulillah.
06-24-2017, 04:02 AM
They didn't know all of the complexities of the universe, they just saw trees, animals, shining dots in the night sky, a big of ball of light in the sun and a lesser light in the moon.

How were they all signs of Allah for them? Wasn't it just stuff that happened to exist for them?

How were they able to know that those things meant there is a creator behind it?

How was the entire universe supposed to be a sign back in their time when they knew so little of the universe?
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Simple_Person
06-24-2017, 08:57 AM
I myself love to think and to ponder about things. However although i might love to do that, there was a time that i was kept from doing exactly that.

What do i mean by that? Tv, movies, series, games, smartphone, hanging out..there is SOOO MUCH distraction that prevents you from pondering. Pondering cannot be done just at max 5 minutes a days. It needs time you need to untangle things in your mind ..you need ask questions. This however even for people who ponder and take the time to ponder, they are being bombard by propaganda.

I can say to you, your name is Ali, although your true name might be Hamza. But i again say Ali, then you say i am Hamza. Then i again say Ali..and again and again..after some time you even react to me saying "Ali, come here". This is done the same in the current times with false theories. Evolution theory is mentioned time after time after time. But what is being mentioned? Every time only the things they want to mention that make "sense" are being mentioned, but NOT other things.



You NEVER see this for example. Because when you see such a picture, that makes you want to question the things you know. So you are being PREVENTED to think. A lie is being told to you. Christianity that although we might disagree on some parts, on other parts we fully agree on, but is being attacked and ridiculed in media on the street etc. Just a few years ago Hollywood started to portray the prophets according to the Bible and how the Bible portrayed them. I tried to watch the movie about Noah(as), but i stopped half the way as how they depicted my prophet. The usual sheep just sees how he is being portrayed and even further more distanced himself from religion and goes with evolution "bogus" THEORY.

In the past just even 100 years ago. I talk to you and if our conversation has ended, we think and ponder about things in our lives. But these days, if our conversation has ended, we start to listen to music, or watch tv (also listening to what is being said on tv off course), or being on computer on facebook. If none of those things we do..we are sleeping. So there is NO time left to ponder about things.

If you just stop watching tv, stop going on facebook, stop listening to music..for at least 2 months, your whole world will change upside down. You see and notice things that you did not so previously. Then everything you see you will notice indeed as signs. you look at how trees grow and animals behave and your fitrah comes back alive that by default sees the connection between the creation and a Creator. Not because you suddenly "stop using science", rather you can see the connection of intelligent design.

So we need to stop doing much of the things we do these days and go back to spend our time on beneficial things, that includes thinking. Have you noticed that tv-channels like discovery channel and such have stopped broadcasting progams about animals, but now a days i see only programs such as selling old cars, old programs about how certain man-made things are being made etc. That is why i have started to download documentaries about animals and nature such as planet earth or BBC earth documentaries. Why? So when i really really want to watch tv, i just watch something i have downloaded and i still can enjoy and learn something from it.
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Abz2000
06-24-2017, 01:49 PM
The people who lived thousands of years ago did study the sky, they had lunar and solar calendars, they could see venys in the night sky, they calculated times and epochs, some (corrupt ones) practiced astrology based on the layout and formations of the celestial bodies and others waited eagerly for jinns to bring them news (remember the council of zion in matrix wanting to know of the fate if the one and sending agents ibto the dangerous whatever - God knows)... so it is apparent that they knew of the relationship of all these celestial bodies with earth, and how the universe is working according to a blueprint.... plus much more.

Simple person - how interesting that the aborigine skull us all dirty with broken teeth and the caucasian on is shiny with smiling perfect teeth :) racism even in skull and bones....

I personally believe that evolution of species is a fact, and that there is no contradiction between it and Islam
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Simple_Person
06-24-2017, 03:01 PM
@Abz2000 , racism in western kind of perspective is DEEP. At almost all the instances you see them acting all innocent, but certain things have been done on purpose. For example, how Jesus in Christianity is depicted as a white guy, many black Christians just don't notice this. Or even how blue eyes and white skin is being portrayed as "supreme" while scientifically it is rather "inferior" as it can tolerate less sun. A black person can live easily in a cold place, but a white person can less tolerate the heat in Africa for example. We as Muslim do not look from such perspective as who is supreme is measured by taqwa (which we cannot see), but if we lower ourselves on to their standards (racist Caucasian people) it is rather becoming contradictory.

Sub'han'Allah we see time after time how the event with Adam(as) and iblies being repeated. iblies said i am BETTER than him, in these times this SAME mentality is happening. Many western people act upon arrogance and feel superior to people of other parts of the world. They look at everything that is "brought" by another people as inferior. For example Islam from Muhammad(saws) because Arabs in these days lack certain skills they are looked down on in everything. From clothing to how they look to how they talk. While clothing (loose clothing) i have concluded that it is BETTER to have during winter as well as during summer. The body can withstand more harsh temperatures, many cultural habits are even superior (sharing food, visiting family more often..just many Islamic cultural habits to even the language. There is no language that comes NEAR to the Arabic language as how deep and detailed it goes.

But yeah, somebody has to take the time to investigate it and one will see it indeed. We people have become too superficial. Many Arabs even look down on Arabic language and are all in "woow" with English language.
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.alhamdulillah.
06-24-2017, 08:50 PM
I get what you guys are saying but it doesn't really answer my question. Weren't the people in the Prophets time super lacking in knowledge even of space and planets and such, like I thought those Arabs were illiterate and just didn't have that type of knowledge?

And even then, what was their thought process in seeing the universe and making that connection to Allah? And if they were able to see the signs and know that there is an intelligent designer, how did they know what Muhammad was preaching was from that intelligent designer? I'm guessing a huge part in that was the Quran and it's perfection in Arabic, but for me I can't see Arabic as a sign since I don't know the language, and to say i should study the Arabic language seems counterintuitive to Allah showing me that miracle... I shouldn't have to go look for that miracle.... especially when it came to the Arabs with no effort
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Abz2000
06-24-2017, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
@Abz2000 , racism in western kind of perspective is DEEP. At almost all the instances you see them acting all innocent, but certain things have been done on purpose.

Although rasicm is haraam and a characteristic of Jaahiliyyah (ignorance).

Originally Posted by Simple_Person
For example, how Jesus in Christianity is depicted as a white guy, many black Christians just don't notice this.
It is easy to confirm that Jesus is olive-brown skin, and that the eyes fit the middle eastern and asian model - even though that's irrelevant with regard to "his" task.

Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Or even how blue eyes and white skin is being portrayed as "supreme" while scientifically it is rather "inferior" as it can tolerate less sun. A black person can live easily in a cold place, but a white person can less tolerate the heat in Africa for example.
Biological nature chooses efficiency - this efficiency takes many different variables into account, dark skinned people turn light within a few generations in cold and less sunny weather- it may have something to do with the fact that the body registers that it doesn't require sun protection and camouflage in the dark, and therefore chooses what is more cosmetically pleasing to the majority - and it is a fact that most people prefer to choose lighter skin during marriage - although marriage too takes different variables into account.
white skinned people also choose dark skin over a few generations - the effects of which are more visible in a single lifespan in extreme hot weather, this appears to be a quick selection due to necessity, and spouse selection also plays a part in deciding multi-generational hue.
As a medium brown skinned person, I experience quick change to dark shades in hot climates, and slow change to light shades in cold climates - this indicates to me that the darker shades are more essential and that the normally functioning body chooses necessity over aesthetics. Biological beings experience this choice of necessity over cosmetics during pain from a tooth, the cutting of a boil from the hand despite the scar, shaving of the hair due to lice, and amputation of a limb when the life is threatened.

Originally Posted by Simple_Person
We as Muslim do not look from such perspective as who is supreme is measured by taqwa (which we cannot see), but if we lower ourselves on to their standards (racist Caucasian people) it is rather becoming contradictory.
Just as the guidance of Allah and just conduct takes precedence in our choices over what may and may not be predestined in our future, and in the past when judging amongst people, the taqwa of a person should normally take precedence over racial superiority when it comes to judging - although it is a fact that some people are genetically more endowed - Allah chose Adam, Noah, the family of Ibraheem, and the family of 'Imraan (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon the righteous and muttaqeen from amongst them) over all creatures, and they were offspring of one another. looking at their huge capacitative minds and wisdom is an indication that good can be inherited, increased, and passed on - a little like monetary wealth . You will also find that some generations inherit stupidity, foolishness, and low wit from their forefathers, you've probably noticed this in some families, you'll also notice that some whole regions have differences in IQ, although the IQ test is not necessarily always a true indicator of wit and wisdom, since knowledge, familiarity, and literacy plays a huge part in IQ tests. However, genetic anomalies do appear and some essential qualities surface after many generations, and some weak minded families have wise and witty children -and vice versa. Then there is also the issue of some generations slowly working their way up, whilst others hit a peak and the get decadent - then dumb and dumber.
So practicing taqwa, adhering to Allah's guidance and blueprint, thinking deeply, being justly charitable, judging justly - all have an effect on our mindsets, surroundings, and investment in future generations, and rather than thinking like hitler and massacring people based on genetics, we need to focus more on healing and getting the guidance of Allah out there. It is beyond doubt that earlier generations of caucasians slimmed down body wise and increased wit wise - although the wit appears to be more materialistically inclined, this may have been due to the fact that they took the risk and migrated to more unknown but plentiful areas, whereas darker people who remained in africa are genetically more muscular, and willing to accept established customs over risky experiments. The head start in any quality is sometimes due to inheritance, and sometimes to risk. This is also seen in inheritance of wealth and poverty.
Again, these qualities are not fixed, all different generations and clans have different positive genetic qualities, and what is seen as best at a certain period of time -or circumstance- may have, and we may end up finding a trait materially seen as inferior - containing the building blocks of something way more genetically superior after a few generations and variations, so massacres based on genetics is firstly haraam, and secondly suicidal in the long term.
So we need to focus on taqwa. Have you not noticed from the quality of discussion that secularist colonialists after absorption of a long drawn out bombardment of mindless false propaganda, decadent popular (pop) entertainment culture, selfish materialistic greed, racist nationalism, fake superiority complex, and unjust bullying via strength - are losing their ability to think critically and usually come across as superficial trolls in debates? Don't you see the way the stereotypical american fox news host get intellectually hammered by peoole who don't come across as stereotypical americans (by habit and life choice)?
Have you not noticed how the new generation of Muslims are usually more deep thinking and wise? The situation also plays a part but it must be admitted that Muslims went through a period of stagnation from a few generations after the sahabah up until the confusions and weak situation of the last century.
It is a fact that the hahabah and early taabi'een used their brains and obeyed Allah out of a sense of deep conviction, whereas a few generations later - people were just fitting into social norms and emulating the religion of their parents instead of the pure religion of Allah with their minds at work in reality - and basing their arguments not on truth, but on the arguments of the earlier generations who came AFTER the Prophet :saws: and the sahabah, it happened to the people of the previous scriptures until they discarded the ways of life practiced via emulation of ancestors as incompatible with reality, and it happened to Muslims up until the breakup of the cultural and ancestral matrix we were living in until we started to take a beating from the greedy and start looking for answers, and when seeking answers we discarded them all one by one until we found that Islaam is indeed a living religion and that it was prescribed for this time, notice how the youth show more maturity in Islam than their grandparents, which is not the case with any other way of life since all others are in intellectual decline.
I am convinced beyond even a shadow of doubt that Islaam and only Islaam has the ability to heal and spur on the people of this global age, and that losing it win only spekl the degeneration, devolution, and end of humanity.
This is obvious when you see that in secularism, the most corrupt, narrow minded, selfish and lowly are chosen -or at least accepted- by the flock as leaders. Whereas we see revolution and intifidah with every breath and every betrayal when it comes to the new generation of Muslims, and a move towards a new united formation based on way of life rather than race, and our zeal is shocking our parents and grandparents.

Wow, I didn't initially think I was gonna write that much when I started, especially since it's one thumb in portrait mode on the phone.


Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Sub'han'Allah we see time after time how the event with Adam(as) and iblies being repeated. iblies said i am BETTER than him, in these times this SAME mentality is happening. Many western people act upon arrogance and feel superior to people of other parts of the world. They look at everything that is "brought" by another people as inferior.
Such unjustly balanced egotistic thinking is usually indicative of a peak in a nation, and spells the beginning or inset of decline, you must also bear in mind though that a lot of it has to do with status quo for the more decadent and materially priveliged ruling class who are clearly able to see the vibrance of Islaam and know that it spells the coming overtake, which is why we see such desperate and naked lashing out. It isn't without observation and reason - although the reasoning for such blind hatred is flawed and unjust.
Take 9/11 for example, everyone has an idea as to what really happened, but a matrix and status quo is in place along with high priest of atheist secularist RELIGION and a fear of being seen as the odd one out if one even contemplates stating the plain and obvious truth, there is the fear of loss of status, ridicule, leprosy in sorts. A mould has been cast, but it appears that this superficial mould won't hold out for long. It is essential at this time to present the coherent and truthful teachings of Allah without fear of being shouted down by falsehood.
Have you not noticed how some trolls representative of the secularist religion go insanely wild and start flinging irrational accusation in order to drown out rational and just statements? It is a good sign that the moral and intellectual ball is in the hands of those who are thinking clearly and accepting Islam as the inevitable winner.

Originally Posted by Simple_Person
For example Islam from Muhammad(saws) because Arabs in these days lack certain skills they are looked down on in everything.
It must be admitted that Arabs have gone through a low point and so have many other colonially beat down and deprived nations, partly because they had stagnated and were basing their logic on the logic of people a few centuries or millenia ago - whereas the prophets and their companions based their faith in Allah and His messengers on logical, sincerely truthful, and sound thought, and based their logic on the foundations of tawheed, adhering firmly to the guidance of Allah, and what they knew as being true in their times. And also due to the deprivation they suffered and are sometimes still suffering. (You cqn't blame people for being less literate when you know they get beaten up or violated on their way to school, or if the blackboard at school has bullet holes all over it, and the school playground has bomb craters, or if a nations kids have to go out to work because of unjust sanctions).
This becomes obvious when you see a person basing his faith in God and acceptance of islam on the fact that he / she was born to Muslim parents, whether devout, or careless, when you see a person getting furious when someone says that the Quran is all fairy tales, and that Muhammad :saws: was a liar, even though the person is 20 or 30 or 50 years old, and has never read the Quran in their own language, and never read the biography of the prophet :saws: to be able to actually decide whether they are true or false, (although i did go through it myself- I was convinced via comparison that the people who practised islam were on the most humble and righteous path - and bush's senior and junior forced me to pay attention) or a scholar of today basing his rejection of the evolution of species - on the logic of a scholar who lived in the ninth or twelvth century who only had access to the information that was available to him at the time, rather than on the Quran which they usually have researched and accepted as being true, along with what they actually find to be the truth only now and not five centuries ago. But we're coming out of that negative curve fast inshaAllah and as long as we are on the side of justice and truth, we will go from strength to strength, and pass down strength through the generations - and even when we die or are martyred whilst on the truth, we win with top grades - though those left behind are deprived unless they pay attention and catch the diamond as we drop it.


Originally Posted by Simple_Person
From clothing to how they look to how they talk. While clothing (loose clothing) i have concluded that it is BETTER to have during winter as well as during summer. The body can withstand more harsh temperatures,

Loose modest clothing is usually the best social choice, it keeps the moral fabric of society in tact and the respect of the wearers intact, although some jobs for males require variations based on wisdom and the best choice in circumstances with Allah's goodwill in mind - such as fishermen and those who climb etc.


Originally Posted by Simple_Person
many cultural habits are even superior (sharing food, visiting family more often..just many Islamic cultural habits to even the language. There is no language that comes NEAR to the Arabic language as how deep and detailed it goes.

But yeah, somebody has to take the time to investigate it and one will see it indeed.
Cultural habits which are in line with Islam are inevitably superuor since they fall in line with Allah the most wise, and one can be certain thatvAllah didn't evolve and then choose Arabic as the language for the final international revelation without good reason, studying it continues to confirm this.

Originally Posted by Simple_Person
We people have become too superficial.
Quite a regressively negative outlook even in general terms , most people are starting to come out of the negative trait and are climbing so let's move forward on that.

Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Many Arabs even look down on Arabic language and are all in "woow" with English language.
Maybe because the english language is an internationally used language, 1/3 of the world's courts used it after being colonized, and is the most practical for web communication whether one is russian, arab, asian, french, or german; and that computers were developed mainly by people who spoke the english language and basic programming is now english?
It gas a monopoly in the material sphere just as arabic has a monopoly on the spiritual and clarity and depth sphere.
It's a reality, not haraam to learn, and useful to quickly adapt to- especially for international da'wah to Islam.
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Abz2000
06-25-2017, 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
I get what you guys are saying but it doesn't really answer my question. Weren't the people in the Prophets time super lacking in knowledge even of space and planets and such, like I thought those Arabs were illiterate and just didn't have that type of knowledge?

And even then, what was their thought process in seeing the universe and making that connection to Allah? And if they were able to see the signs and know that there is an intelligent designer, how did they know what Muhammad was preaching was from that intelligent designer? I'm guessing a huge part in that was the Quran and it's perfection in Arabic, but for me I can't see Arabic as a sign since I don't know the language, and to say i should study the Arabic language seems counterintuitive to Allah showing me that miracle... I shouldn't have to go look for that miracle.... especially when it came to the Arabs with no effort
A person can lie down alone in the summer heat and stare at the night sky for ages and ages and not cease to marvel at it's magnificence, splendour, beauty, punctuality, harmony, and creative design, and when it's really quiet, it strikes a person who ponders over it all that this stuff just can't happen without highly intelligent design, control, care, and absolute power.
I've experienced it myself on the roof at the village here in the east.
But not from out of the window in busy england cities, where there's so much going on and the lights never go out. In a remote village without electricity, it takes over your imagination and you feel tiny - but looked after by someone who cares, someone big; someone who even designs artistically and beautifully, someone who provides rain and food for everything that exists.
In busy cities, it's difficult to think past the government and child benefits from the political party or dad's paycheck or bank transfer from someone's business - even when you're told that God is the provider because everything is placed in it's place by people and rain is a nuisance, and food comes in plastic packets with company names and advertising on it - I'm not trying to demean busy life in cold cities, but it's a fact that the heavens and the earth has a different meaning in the quiet desert or remote village - unless you have a nice telescope to get lost inside, that's when your mind becomes consumed again.


Regarding trust in the Prophet :saws: , I know english doesn't catch the prose and rhyme, but it does still catch the eloquence and magnificence to a high degree, try reading all of chapter 36 when it's really quiet and you'll see that it's not frivolous human speech, it's of a totally different caliber to poetry in terms of justice, magnificence, authority, wisdom and warning.
By studying the seerah of the Prophet :saws: and comparing it with current events, you'll notice many similarities in situations, reactions - positive and negative, and you'll also see that the Prophet couldn't have been doing all of this by himself or with human help. The corrupt leaders used to ridicule him for his social standing, illiteracy, wealth, and authority (all based on their own whimsy measures) and just couldn't bring themselves to accept that such a man could have been chosen by God instead of them, until they saw that it was true and that the growing accetpance of his coll was a threat to their corrupt manipulation of the masses, but the people who had an interest in taking interest - usually the downtrodden and oppressed, and sometimes the thinking well off youth who didn't have a vested interest in the corrupt status quo - were able to think more honestly with themselves, and didn't block it out of their minds purposefully, and they could see that he wasn't doing any of it on his own accord, some even thought he was mad to have been enduring all that he had to endure, others thought that it was what the jinn brought to soothsayers. But those who needed to or cared to ponder - pondered, and the Quran was speaking to their inner souls and healing them, being confirmed as not being possible to be anything other than a revelation from the creator of the heavens and the earth who was dragging them out of the darkness and injustice, from the blatantly false beliefs and ridiculous social practices of their culture made up in the name of idols etc. And there were also the multiple and constant signs that are given with prophets - prophecies and not predictions - so when all of that culminates, and the poetically illiterate messenger :saws: is speaking truth backed by powerful, authoritative, undoubtable truth in magnificent speech that none of the leaderd, poets or soothsayers could match in magnificence, helped along by the unjust via their spiteful hatred, trolling, false arguments, plotting, persecution, and hysteria - people start to sort things in their minds and make sense if it all and make a choice.

Any truthful person who compares the words, exhortations, and practicality of the Quran with all other laws and decress of leaders - will be forced to decide that the Quran is the truth and most wise guidance for conducting a well disciplined, respectable and noble life. But for that stage to come where people find that they need to make a choice, the political and social climate along with the people's desire for a way out from internal corruption has to be there - and it was there in a potent form at Makkah at the time of the Prophet, and slowly reached all of Arabia and it's surroundings in a different and more political way, and has now reached everybody in a way more similar to makkah than madinah (there was rarely hypocrisy in makkah because there was not much material benefit in accepting Islam).
So compare it, and see the debates that took place at the time in order to see their reasoning.
Anyway, reading
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Abz2000
06-25-2017, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
I get what you guys are saying but it doesn't really answer my question. Weren't the people in the Prophets time super lacking in knowledge even of space and planets and such, like I thought those Arabs were illiterate and just didn't have that type of knowledge?

And even then, what was their thought process in seeing the universe and making that connection to Allah? And if they were able to see the signs and know that there is an intelligent designer, how did they know what Muhammad was preaching was from that intelligent designer? I'm guessing a huge part in that was the Quran and it's perfection in Arabic, but for me I can't see Arabic as a sign since I don't know the language, and to say i should study the Arabic language seems counterintuitive to Allah showing me that miracle... I shouldn't have to go look for that miracle.... especially when it came to the Arabs with no effort
A person can lie down alone in the summer heat and stare at the night sky for ages and ages and not cease to marvel at it's magnificence, splendour, beauty, punctuality, harmony, and creative design, and when it's really quiet, it strikes a person who ponders over it all that this stuff just can't happen without highly intelligent design, control, care, and absolute power.
I've experienced it myself on the roof at the village here in the east.
But not from out of the window in busy england cities, where there's so much going on and the lights never go out. In a remote village without electricity, it takes over your imagination and you feel tiny - but looked after by someone who cares, someone big; someone who even designs artistically and beautifully, someone who provides rain and food for everything that exists.
In busy cities, it's difficult to think past the government and child benefits from the political party or dad's paycheck or bank transfer from someone's business - even when you're told that God is the provider because everything is placed in it's place by people and rain is a nuisance, and food comes in plastic packets with company names and advertising on it - I'm not trying to demean busy life in cold cities, but it's a fact that the heavens and the earth has a different meaning in the quiet desert or remote village - unless you have a nice telescope to get lost inside, that's when your mind becomes consumed again.


Regarding trust in the Prophet :saws: , I know english doesn't catch the prose and rhyme, but it does still catch the eloquence and magnificence to a high degree, try reading all of chapter 36 when it's really quiet and you'll see that it's not frivolous human speech, it's of a totally different caliber to poetry in terms of justice, magnificence, authority, wisdom and warning.
By studying the seerah of the Prophet :saws: and comparing it with current events, you'll notice many similarities in situations, reactions - positive and negative, and you'll also see that the Prophet couldn't have been doing all of this by himself or with human help. The corrupt leaders used to ridicule him for his social standing, illiteracy, wealth, and authority (all based on their own whimsy measures) and just couldn't bring themselves to accept that such a man could have been chosen by God instead of them, until they saw that it was true and that the growing accetpance of his coll was a threat to their corrupt manipulation of the masses, but the people who had an interest in taking interest - usually the downtrodden and oppressed, and sometimes the thinking well off youth who didn't have a vested interest in the corrupt status quo - were able to think more honestly with themselves, and didn't block it out of their minds purposefully, and they could see that he wasn't doing any of it on his own accord, some even thought he was mad to have been enduring all that he had to endure, others thought that it was what the jinn brought to soothsayers. But those who needed to or cared to ponder - pondered, and the Quran was speaking to their inner souls and healing them, being confirmed as not being possible to be anything other than a revelation from the creator of the heavens and the earth who was dragging them out of the darkness and injustice, from the blatantly false beliefs and ridiculous social practices of their culture made up in the name of idols etc. And there were also the multiple and constant signs that are given with prophets - prophecies and not predictions - so when all of that culminates, and the poetically illiterate messenger :saws: is speaking truth backed by powerful, authoritative, undoubtable truth in magnificent speech that none of the leaderd, poets or soothsayers could match in magnificence, helped along by the unjust via their spiteful hatred, trolling, false arguments, plotting, persecution, and hysteria - people start to sort things in their minds and make sense if it all and make a choice.

Any truthful person who compares the words, exhortations, and practicality of the Quran with all other laws and decress of leaders - will be forced to decide that the Quran is the truth and most wise guidance for conducting a well disciplined, respectable and noble life. But for that stage to come where people find that they need to make a choice, the political and social climate along with the people's desire for a way out from internal corruption has to be there - and it was there in a potent form at Makkah at the time of the Prophet, and slowly reached all of Arabia and it's surroundings in a different and more political way, and has now reached everybody in a way more similar to makkah than madinah (there was rarely hypocrisy in makkah because there was not much material benefit in accepting Islam).
So ompare it, and see the debates that took place at the time in order to see their reasoning.
Anyway, reading the Quran whilst pondering and comparing with current events and political comparisons in a holistic rather than compartmentalized manner should be an easy task for anyone who has a reason to care.
The challenge to produce a better, more practical and true guidance and way of life has not been met so far, and is far from likely in future.

Below is a record of some of the musings and arguments which are said to have taken place at the time:
I believe you'll notice, that the prose and rhythm is lost when translated, whereas that of the Quran fits universally no matter the language - especially english - along with cliches and analogies.



















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.alhamdulillah.
06-25-2017, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
A person can lie down alone in the summer heat and stare at the night sky for ages and ages and not cease to marvel at it's magnificence, splendour, beauty, punctuality, harmony, and creative design, and when it's really quiet, it strikes a person who ponders over it all that this stuff just can't happen without highly intelligent design, control, care, and absolute power.
I've experienced it myself on the roof at the village here in the east.
But not from out of the window in busy england cities, where there's so much going on and the lights never go out. In a remote village without electricity, it takes over your imagination and you feel tiny - but looked after by someone who cares, someone big; someone who even designs artistically and beautifully, someone who provides rain and food for everything that exists.
In busy cities, it's difficult to think past the government and child benefits from the political party or dad's paycheck or bank transfer from someone's business - even when you're told that God is the provider because everything is placed in it's place by people and rain is a nuisance, and food comes in plastic packets with company names and advertising on it - I'm not trying to demean busy life in cold cities, but it's a fact that the heavens and the earth has a different meaning in the quiet desert or remote village - unless you have a nice telescope to get lost inside, that's when your mind becomes consumed again.


Regarding trust in the Prophet :saws: , I know english doesn't catch the prose and rhyme, but it does still catch the eloquence and magnificence to a high degree, try reading all of chapter 36 when it's really quiet and you'll see that it's not frivolous human speech, it's of a totally different caliber to poetry in terms of justice, magnificence, authority, wisdom and warning.
By studying the seerah of the Prophet :saws: and comparing it with current events, you'll notice many similarities in situations, reactions - positive and negative, and you'll also see that the Prophet couldn't have been doing all of this by himself or with human help. The corrupt leaders used to ridicule him for his social standing, illiteracy, wealth, and authority (all based on their own whimsy measures) and just couldn't bring themselves to accept that such a man could have been chosen by God instead of them, until they saw that it was true and that the growing accetpance of his coll was a threat to their corrupt manipulation of the masses, but the people who had an interest in taking interest - usually the downtrodden and oppressed, and sometimes the thinking well off youth who didn't have a vested interest in the corrupt status quo - were able to think more honestly with themselves, and didn't block it out of their minds purposefully, and they could see that he wasn't doing any of it on his own accord, some even thought he was mad to have been enduring all that he had to endure, others thought that it was what the jinn brought to soothsayers. But those who needed to or cared to ponder - pondered, and the Quran was speaking to their inner souls and healing them, being confirmed as not being possible to be anything other than a revelation from the creator of the heavens and the earth who was dragging them out of the darkness and injustice, from the blatantly false beliefs and ridiculous social practices of their culture made up in the name of idols etc. And there were also the multiple and constant signs that are given with prophets - prophecies and not predictions - so when all of that culminates, and the poetically illiterate messenger :saws: is speaking truth backed by powerful, authoritative, undoubtable truth in magnificent speech that none of the leaderd, poets or soothsayers could match in magnificence, helped along by the unjust via their spiteful hatred, trolling, false arguments, plotting, persecution, and hysteria - people start to sort things in their minds and make sense if it all and make a choice.

Any truthful person who compares the words, exhortations, and practicality of the Quran with all other laws and decress of leaders - will be forced to decide that the Quran is the truth and most wise guidance for conducting a well disciplined, respectable and noble life. But for that stage to come where people find that they need to make a choice, the political and social climate along with the people's desire for a way out from internal corruption has to be there - and it was there in a potent form at Makkah at the time of the Prophet, and slowly reached all of Arabia and it's surroundings in a different and more political way, and has now reached everybody in a way more similar to makkah than madinah (there was rarely hypocrisy in makkah because there was not much material benefit in accepting Islam).
So ompare it, and see the debates that took place at the time in order to see their reasoning.
Anyway, reading the Quran whilst pondering and comparing with current events and political comparisons in a holistic rather than compartmentalized manner should be an easy task for anyone who has a reason to care.
The challenge to produce a better, more practical and true guidance and way of life has not been met so far, and is far from likely in future.

Below is a record of some of the musings and arguments which are said to have taken place at the time:
I believe you'll notice, that the prose and rhythm is lost when translated, whereas that of the Quran fits universally no matter the language - especially english - along with cliches and analogies.
I totally get what you are saying and when I ponder on the Quran and on life and the universe, it is all definitely signs that point to none other than a maker and that Islam is from that maker, but for some reason that is just not translating to certainty in my mind and heart and I constantly find myself trying to convince myself and remind myself of why I believe...

And beyond that, with the pictures you shared and the biography of the Prophet, how do we know a lot of the seerah is even accurate and not falsified to make the Prophet seem greater or miraculous, such as how much hardship he went through against the Quraish and how he was at such a disadvantage against the society he was living in who wanted to abolish Islam? Does it all go back to the chain of transmissions and the entire seerah being relayed from the companions?
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Abz2000
06-25-2017, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
I totally get what you are saying and when I ponder on the Quran and on life and the universe, it is all definitely signs that point to none other than a maker and that Islam is from that maker, but for some reason that is just not translating to certainty in my mind and heart and I constantly find myself trying to convince myself and remind myself of why I believe...
Absolute certainty is something that can take time, though acceptance of the most truthful and just way is something that can and must be made on a much more easy level when you are required to make a choice after making a comparison between everything you know and by considering the future.


Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
And beyond that, with the pictures you shared and the biography of the Prophet, how do we know a lot of the seerah is even accurate and not falsified to make the Prophet seem greater or miraculous, such as how much hardship he went through against the Quraish and how he was at such a disadvantage against the society he was living in who wanted to abolish Islam? Does it all go back to the chain of transmissions and the entire seerah being relayed from the companions?

The first pointer is the Quran and everything you see and know which confirms it's authenticity, truthfulness, and superiority to all other statements and ways of life which have been practised up until now.

The second is pointed to by the first - if the Quran is authentic, then the majority of people who absorbed it as their manual of living after it's revelation must necessarily have followed it's teachings - there is no doubt that there were some foolish, and some malicious people who fabricated stories about aspects of the life of the Prophet, however, these were in the minority and the narrations of the followers who adhered strongly to it without confusion were in the majority and were prevalent, and the narrations of those who were trustworthy were always given precedence.
If those truthful and just people too are to be doubted, then all historical records of those who fall below the standards of those who preserved the Quran would come into more doubt, and we'd be left with nothing - and nothing is not an option since the justly preserved and useful lessons, lawful scientific observations, and discoveries of the past are what guide us into the future (prudence), otherwise teaching at home, schools, colleges, universities, and places of work would be only about the future and not of what is believed to be known before the time of teaching, and humanity would be rebooting themselves every nano-second and no books by experts, and medical professionals, and professors would be read if all past writings were to be dismissed.
Halal information from the past must be taken on and the choice must be made to accept what is most credible.
I hope that helps in considering. ....
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