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Captain Drake
07-26-2017, 03:25 PM
Asalam u alikum,
I'd like to firstly greet all of you, both brothers and sisters. I'm a 17 year old teenager from Germany, with both parents from Iraq. I have been thinking about marriage for future reasons multiple times, due to me living in the west with western oriented males and females. I've asked both my parents on what I should do if I wanted to marry a Christian, both said they'd allow me to.

A back story so you understand why I want to marry a Christian in the first place:
In Kurdistan, Iraq and generally the closer eastern side of the world, when a man proposes to a woman, they obviously go to the woman's house and talk to the parents and things go from there. Now here's my problem : the man gives the woman lots of gold, property and such ?!?!
That is where I say it's the boundary in Islam from my eyes, love is love and love is pure, if it's real love (from my perspective).

Now, even though I'm at this age I cannot believe this and therefore don't (at this point of time think) I'll be marrying a Muslim woman, because most of the girls nowadays are money, gold and value oriented.

Now im not saying the Christian is much better, because there are good and bad people everywhere, but I believe that the culture (modern culture) in most parts of the richer eastern world is purely out of hand.

Long story short.
If I also marry a Christian woman, and both her and I practice our own religions and respect each other's religion, and we would get for example 2 children, since they're being birthed by the mother (Christian), does it mean the children will be Christian?
Because, I know that one of the best "jobs" or "goals" for a Muslim is to make another person, with their own convincing (without forcing) a Muslim, and making children and them becoming Christian, wouldn't that be a problem and would this be written down for my as a bad thing (the day where you as a person will be evaluated by your goods and bads to see if you go to paradise or hell?)

I thank you for reading, sorry for it being long but I had to speak my mind.

*Im a male*
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Bhabha
07-26-2017, 03:37 PM
You still have to give your Christian spouse, Mahr. Just because she's Christian it does not mean that she is not entitled to receive the same thing, a Muslim wife would be receiving. Furthermore, although by name your children will be Muslim (It is only if she's Jewish, that her children are considered "Jewish", as Judaism is through the mother's lineage), she will still be raising them and teaching them, so by virtue of her teachings, the children will in essence become Christians, despite you being their father.
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Captain Drake
07-26-2017, 03:38 PM
I have never heard of "Mahr"? What is that ?
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maaq
07-26-2017, 03:40 PM
Yes,It is permisible in Islam to marry a chritian women,and if she give birth 2 children them these children are bound to follow the Islamic rules and regulations and obey orders of Islam.
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Bhabha
07-26-2017, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Captain Drake
I have never heard of "Mahr"? What is that ?
It's the money you have to give to your wife!
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Captain Drake
07-26-2017, 03:44 PM
Ok! Thank you very much! Also, I need a bit of help. Even though I'm 17, I have this girl in my class and we'll be in the next school together too, and I just think she is perfect in the sense of from the inside, clean and good. If I look through her eyes, i just see that she is a clean person, but I'm 17 and have a whole lot to still experience. What do you recommend me to do, as she isn't really interested to be in a "relationship (obviously with boundaries)" ... don't you think it's too early at my age to have these feelings ?
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Bhabha
07-26-2017, 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by Captain Drake
Ok! Thank you very much! Also, I need a bit of help. Even though I'm 17, I have this girl in my class and we'll be in the next school together too, and I just think she is perfect in the sense of from the inside, clean and good. If I look through her eyes, i just see that she is a clean person, but I'm 17 and have a whole lot to still experience. What do you recommend me to do, as she isn't really interested to be in a "relationship (obviously with boundaries)" ... don't you think it's too early at my age to have these feelings ?
At 17... Yes you're too young. Can you provide for her? I mean if you marry her..
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ardianto
07-26-2017, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Captain Drake
Ok! Thank you very much! Also, I need a bit of help. Even though I'm 17, I have this girl in my class and we'll be in the next school together too, and I just think she is perfect in the sense of from the inside, clean and good. If I look through her eyes, i just see that she is a clean person, but I'm 17 and have a whole lot to still experience. What do you recommend me to do, as she isn't really interested to be in a "relationship (obviously with boundaries)" ... don't you think it's too early at my age to have these feelings ?
If you have ready to get married and you have made a promise with a Christian woman to marry her, okay, you can ask question about marrying Christian woman. But now is too early to ask that question. Not only because you are too young and haven't ready to get married, but also because that girl seem like not interested to become your life-partner. Probably your hope will be ended in broken heart.

Now is better if you live your life without thinking about marrying someone. In the future after you have ready to get married and you meet a Christian woman who is willing to marry you, you can ask that question.
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Simple_Person
07-26-2017, 04:53 PM
As-salamu alaikum

So somehow you made "clear" that you are a Kurd. Because of that you know how Kurdish girls are like..money..money..money. I can relate to that as i myself am also a Kurd. However bra, there is much more to the "game" of marriage then simply the things you mention.

Islam has boundaries and if you are within those boundaries it is permissible, the question however it is not whether it is permissible or not when marrying, when we marry we want a blessed marriage. As Kurds we KNOW how many Kurds in Kurdistan it has become a "norm" to divorce. So instead of simply to look at if it is permissible to marry certain girl from a certain religion, one must rather look at what Islam or Prophet Muhammad(saws) has advised us to look to when marrying.

======Hadith=======
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a losers.

Source used: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/67/28
=================

From his advice we see that he rather advice us to marry somebody that has put religion on #1. A Christian sister rather has not put religion on #1. Why do i say this?

In the Qur'an Allah says,

"And say, "Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart." Qur'an 17:81

The person that ponders a lot will see that no other religion stands firm EXCEPT Islam. So for a Christian sister still being a Christian before you marrying her, shows rather she does not question things and is eager to want to pursue knowledge and understanding and what is truth.

So what am i saying? Look for a wife that has put Islam on #1. Don't look at ethnicity. She being a Turk, Kurd, Arab, Persian, German, or whatever, as long as she does not pursue culture/nationalism but rather follows the path of Islam, that is a suitable wife. To find such a wife, first clean your self so to say. Do you deserve such a wife? If yes, based on what do you say you deserve such a wife?

Such a wife, in Islam "mahr" MUST be given, however it doesn't mean it "has" to be money. Rather you HAVE to give her something. I once have heard that a sister asked for a copy of the Qur'an from her future-husband as mahr.

Right now bra, i would advice you, find out what is culture and what is religion. Find out what is permissible and what not. Go and clean your own character and follow Prophet Muhammad(saws) his example. Do remember having a long beard doesn't make you suddenly a good Muslim. That is the cover, rather clean your heart from loving money, pursuing your desires, not desiring to want to listen to music, be consistent with doing your daily prayers, being good to your parents and people around you. Not mixing with girls..etc etc.
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Eric H
07-27-2017, 05:45 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Captain Drake; and welcome to the forum,

Marriage has to be one of the toughest thing we do in life, and I have only been married thirty two years.

Now here's my problem : the man gives the woman lots of gold, property and such ?!?!
Now here is my problem, when a man wants to keep all his gold and property for himself, he is not thinking about his wife. You could be married for fifty years, and marriage survives in a greater way when you help each other and share.

Sadly in the UK, when children reach fifteen years old, about half of them are not living with both their biological parents, due to separation. Marriage should be a lifetime commitment before Allah.

Blessings,
Eric
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azc
07-27-2017, 07:27 PM
Marriage brings responsibilitis. Are you ready..?
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sister herb
07-27-2017, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by Captain Drake
If I also marry a Christian woman, and both her and I practice our own religions and respect each other's religion, and we would get for example 2 children, since they're being birthed by the mother (Christian), does it mean the children will be Christian?
Because, I know that one of the best "jobs" or "goals" for a Muslim is to make another person, with their own convincing (without forcing) a Muslim, and making children and them becoming Christian, wouldn't that be a problem and would this be written down for my as a bad thing (the day where you as a person will be evaluated by your goods and bads to see if you go to paradise or hell?)
This matter of religion of children may be a problem. In many countries in the West, law says that children follow their mother´s religion if parents don´t decide otherwise. Having a child is very emotional matter for women and if your Christian wife changes hers mind about religion thing and wants that children will become Christians, there isn´t much you can do. Also, in many countries law gives easily child custody to mother than to father, if there will be some sort of problems later in your marriage.
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STN
07-27-2017, 08:37 PM
I am going to suggest something out of the contrary because i noticed something others didn't or ignored.

Now here's my problem : the man gives the woman lots of gold, property and such ?!?!
That is where I say it's the boundary in Islam from my eyes, love is love and love is pure, if it's real love (from my perspective).

Now, even though I'm at this age I cannot believe this and therefore don't (at this point of time think) I'll be marrying a Muslim woman, because most of the girls nowadays are money, gold and value oriented.
This is called Mahr/dower and it dignifies the woman and gives her security. The amount is something that is agreed upon by both parties but most people who are able and love their partner give more out of love for their bride or it could be the girl's parents asked for such an amount.

You can't marry a woman until you give Mahr.

And i advise you against marrying a christian woman because you don't know about Islam that well it looks like it (do you talk to your parents?) and you find "problems" in something so dignified and beautiful such as Mahr, when you marry a Christian girl how will you deal with the small matters.

If you think you're going to find a non-Muslim girl who is going to settle down with you for "love", good luck. The culture there has become so materialistic that a girl of your age is thinking the same thing as

but I'm 17 and have a whole lot to still experience.
you said it yourself

What do you recommend me to do, as she isn't really interested to be in a "relationship (obviously with boundaries)"
What i think is you have created this bad image of Muslim women (from experience, ignorance, idk) that they're gold diggers and money hungry incapable of love creatures while it is the opposite. A muslim woman will not cheat on you (i don't know of ANY Muslim girl that was in a marriage and cheated on his husband), desert your children and be involved in any acts with other men which will create jealousy in you.

But a non-Muslim girl will cheat on you, go to parties and flirt with other men and don't respect you because she doesn't know any better. She isn't raised as such, she is raised to follow her whims and desires whereas a Muslim fears Allah and is more mindful of his actions for he knows he will be held accountable to Him even if his/her spouse doesn't know.

Even while i was at your age and Satan was toying with my emotions (May Allah forgive my sins), i never imagined i would marry a non-Muslim girl, what kind of mother you want for your children?.

Convincing someone to accept Islam isn't an easy matter or even possible for some individuals who don't want to seek the truth and can't be bothered submitting their will to the Almighty Allah. I have sent the same videos that made me shiver in belief (about Holy Quran description of black holes, pharaoh, embroyology) and hated myself for all the sins i have done to my non-Muslim best friends and you know what response they give after my insisting "interesting video" so don't think you will have an easy job especially to a teenage girl who is more concerned about "experiences" with more men...girls have desires and lust too.


Of course only Allah knows best. Maybe you can achieve this hard task and with Allah's mercy even lead your wife to the right path i.e Islam and have muslim children. But ^remember the above and you should strive hard to first find a Muslim girl because she is the best choice, if that isn't possible then go and marry a christian but study Islam first and increase your knowledge so you can guide your future wife to be and children and not have a typical marriage > divorce that usually results from marriages of these types.
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Captain Drake
07-27-2017, 09:13 PM
Salam u alikum,
yes, I do speak to my parents very often regarding general topics of curiosity. My parents and I aren't 100% "strict" or "too religious" muslims, I can't judge if I am a good or bad Muslim, that's to allah the merciful to decide obviously. Unfortunately, I don't pray, I have tried it one time when I was 11 I believe, where I told my mother to dictate what should be said and I would repeat it meanwhile headed towards makkah and further. Yes, I am a Kurd and I personally have this image of "gold diggers etc and money has to be spent on women etc etc" because my father informs me so, most of the times. Basically he is informing me, that the culture we have nowadays over there, the short and narrow minded muslims we mostly now have in Kurdistan, especially all of these thieves families who steal property and do anything to get their hands on value and money that isn't theirs, i have thought about it and dont want anything like that happen to me. I never knew up until this post about "Mahr", but I heard about what it is generally.

My further problem is, that the Mahr is being abused istakfr allah by id say by definitely more than half in Kurdistan (females only obviously). They ask for cars, big properties, 5 kg of e.g gold etc. I believe that is ridiculous. I alhamdurila understand why Mahr exists now, it is so the woman or the female sees that you can provide, put her in safety for the family you want to create e.g with her and further on for her own security.

I think I'll generally never think about relationships again, mainly due to one fact. I have had 2 times where my heart war broken, shattered. Like I see both times (the 2 times were 2 years apart from each other so one time in 2014-5 and 2015-6... it was indescribable. The first time was so severe, i literally went jogging to push all the negativity out of my body and my mother saw and noticed directly that something was happening with me. Allhamdurilla I'm on a good track at school and my parents always want me to be open to them. We have such a good relation, that when I went to a party once and came back, since everyone was Christian I was the only one that did NOT drink, I saw a friend (a girl) kiss and make out with another girl-friend from her school and i was a bit affected ... idk why... but I went to my mom and cried myself out for a bit, seriously because it was somehow made clear to me that god doesn't want me to be in a relationship with a beautiful (from both outside and inside), I know that god wants to protect me though... this is just confusing me a bit
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sister herb
07-27-2017, 09:21 PM
If you will decide to marry a Muslim girl, why you are talking only Kurds? Don´t you or your family can think to marry Muslim girl whose ethnicity is something else than just only the Kurd?

^o)
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noraina
07-27-2017, 09:40 PM
Assalamu alaykum,

For a Muslim man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman is 'permitted', although it is preferable for him to marry a Muslim woman.

This is why, marriage is hard enough anyway when you are of the same religion. Place two different religions into a marriage, and it is something else altogether. Perhaps somewhere on social media there are examples of inter-faith relationships going wonderfully well, but you don't see the tears, blood and sweat that went into it. And the compromise. For people of two differing faiths to live together they will need to make major compromises in their religion.

You said you don't pray, and as a your sister in Islam I'd so encourage you to strive to pray the five daily salah - it can seem difficult, but that feeling if peace and sense of purpose you will have, it can't be compared to anything. :)

As has been said above, say if you do marry a Christian woman. She may, in theory, say that she is fine with her children being brought up Muslim or left to decide what their religion will be, and you may say the same. However, as a person your outlook of life changes a great deal once you have children and your ideas of what is best for them may clash. You may want them to be brought up with the basic tenets of Islam, she may want them to be brought up as Christians. What will happen then?

You mentioned that the women from your community are not quite 'marriage material, however, the truth is that you cannot paint an entire group of people with one brush. I am sure there are some wonderful sisters from your own community. And, besides, this Ummah is so diverse ma'sha'Allah. There are good sisters from every community and ethnicity. If you are sincerely searching for marriage, then Allah swt will help you in this regard.

And before even being consumed with the idea of marriage, we should focus on becoming better Muslims and people ourselves. I have found when we try to improve the condition of our own hearts, then things kind of fall into place. :)
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Umm♥Layth
07-27-2017, 11:41 PM
I was Christian when I married the first time and still asked for a maher. It wasn't much, but I still asked for it. It is very dumb and selfish to try and marry outside of your religion in hopes the girl will be ignorant of your faith.
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Simple_Person
07-28-2017, 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by Captain Drake
Salam u alikum,
yes, I do speak to my parents very often regarding general topics of curiosity. My parents and I aren't 100% "strict" or "too religious" muslims, I can't judge if I am a good or bad Muslim, that's to allah the merciful to decide obviously. Unfortunately, I don't pray, I have tried it one time when I was 11 I believe, where I told my mother to dictate what should be said and I would repeat it meanwhile headed towards makkah and further. Yes, I am a Kurd and I personally have this image of "gold diggers etc and money has to be spent on women etc etc" because my father informs me so, most of the times. Basically he is informing me, that the culture we have nowadays over there, the short and narrow minded muslims we mostly now have in Kurdistan, especially all of these thieves families who steal property and do anything to get their hands on value and money that isn't theirs, i have thought about it and dont want anything like that happen to me. I never knew up until this post about "Mahr", but I heard about what it is generally.

My further problem is, that the Mahr is being abused istakfr allah by id say by definitely more than half in Kurdistan (females only obviously). They ask for cars, big properties, 5 kg of e.g gold etc. I believe that is ridiculous. I alhamdurila understand why Mahr exists now, it is so the woman or the female sees that you can provide, put her in safety for the family you want to create e.g with her and further on for her own security.

I think I'll generally never think about relationships again, mainly due to one fact. I have had 2 times where my heart war broken, shattered. Like I see both times (the 2 times were 2 years apart from each other so one time in 2014-5 and 2015-6... it was indescribable. The first time was so severe, i literally went jogging to push all the negativity out of my body and my mother saw and noticed directly that something was happening with me. Allhamdurilla I'm on a good track at school and my parents always want me to be open to them. We have such a good relation, that when I went to a party once and came back, since everyone was Christian I was the only one that did NOT drink, I saw a friend (a girl) kiss and make out with another girl-friend from her school and i was a bit affected ... idk why... but I went to my mom and cried myself out for a bit, seriously because it was somehow made clear to me that god doesn't want me to be in a relationship with a beautiful (from both outside and inside), I know that god wants to protect me though... this is just confusing me a bit
Bra, my advice is to put marriage on the side for now. Go and clean your acts first. Don't worry that you do not know how to pray. I also re-learned the prayer. All just from internet.





These days alhamdulillah you almost do not need to ask anybody about certain things. Do however whenever you read something or somebody tells you something that is "according" to Islam. Always think for yourself. Because these days people like Daesh/ISIS see you easily as a target. When you start to practice Islam, stay away from people. When you go to a mosque, do not hangout with other people. Just go pray and go back home. Also about your friends, if you know those people you do hangout are doing haram things, better stay away from them. Allah will put good people that you can hangout on your path. However before that happens, first be consistent with wanting to walk on the path Allah has given us to walk on.

Also you do not have to have such a Islamic beard or a thobe (long dress). Clean your heart, Allah does not look how long your beard is, but how the state of your heart is. DO NOT listen to your dad about Islam or any other Kurd in you family. Like i said i am also a Kurd and i KNOW how other Kurds mostly look at Islam these days. They talk so much about Islam bad or good, but till now i have seen none really do by action. So many liars, cheaters, wolves (money grabbers)/having a fight with their brother/sister about money. It is so pitiful to see that.

Always remember you will end up in your own grave. Not your mother or your father or anybody else will join you in your grave. A uncle of mine looks down on me because i do not pursue in wanting money. However every time he or anybody else says such a thing i say what will i be taking with me after i die? People these days are shallow minded. All they care for is to compete in wealth with other people.

Kurdish women by far love money the MOST. Even others (Turks, Afghans, Arabs, Persians, etc.) find it absurd. However like i earlier said, do not look at if she is a Kurd or Turk, or Arab, Persians..etc.. as long as she does not pursue culture/nationalism. But again, put marriage on the side right now. Focus on making your foundation good. You most probably already often read on facebook pages how some women are seeking advice because their marriage is breaking up. This is due to them not pursuing somebody to marry based on Islamic principles. Thus they have not blessing in their marriage. I have looked from all possible angles maybe marriage other than Islamic way of marriage might be blessed, however each and every time my conclusion was that the only solid and most blessed marriage was a marriage based on the Islamic foundation.

So do not act like a sheep. But think for yourself. Do not follow your mother blindly as till now she still has not thought you about how to pray, which is rather HER job to do so. Also if you do not pray, most probably your dad also does not pray. Which is very common among Kurds in the west. The father does not pray but says he is Muslim, although does not drink alcohol or eat pork (has some principles), the mother prays, but rather looks like a "habit". The children often are left alone and not thought how to pray and such.

Always remember your first obedience is towards Allah and everything that does not go against Islam, becomes the second obedience which is your parents. If you die today, your dad or mom will not join you in your grave.
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