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Simple_Person
07-27-2017, 01:49 PM
Watch and judge for yourself. Propaganda is one thing (white helmets) always depicting Turks for example as innocent and others as barbarians.

For sure on the day of judgement no criminal will be able to escape their judgement.

BE AWARE..GRAPHICAL!!

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anatolian
07-27-2017, 04:17 PM
Thanks to Allah the general audiance in this forum are smart enough not to fall in this type of idiotic anti-Turkist propoganda.
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Simple_Person
07-27-2017, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Thanks to Allah the general audiance in this forum are smart enough not to fall in this type of idiotic anti-Turkist propoganda.
Thanks to Allah for internet :).

*kuch*..*kuch*..*kuch*..Turkish hypocrisy..*kuch*..*kuch*. .*kuch*...

Nobody has to believe me, everybody has a brain and everybody has a fitrah to be guided by. When one sees Erdogan first curse Assaad and talk big against Russia..to later on be big friends..sorry to say this, but no "political interest" can outweigh Muslim lives. In Islam Muslim life is MORE precious than the ka'bah, so how in the world is suddenly "political strategy" aka Turkish national interest more important than Muslim lives?

So yes INDEED, ALHAMDULILLAH for people being smart enough to question and see the hypocrisy of people.


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Simple_Person
07-31-2017, 06:06 AM
The Turks are so lovely. I guess this is what you get when you have a rolemodel like Erdogan...to follow..

https://twitter.com/doamuslims/statu...565184/video/1

Btw, before any Turk replies saying that is a Kurd doing it (his accent). Kurds have a known history of traitors. If you say you are a Muslim no matter Kurd or Turk, you will fight on the side of the one fighting the oppressor, doesn't matter who they are. Also please don't come with the nonsense to depict PKK as "Godless communists" to try to win the argument. If we go by that logic, then Turks praising Mustafa Kemal is the exact same thing then. As he also was a secular (Godless) guy promoting secular ideas and trying to abolish Islam from society and hearts of people.

So this has nothing to do with religion at all. Just simple matter of oppressor & the oppressed. Who's side are you on?
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sister herb
07-31-2017, 07:44 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person

So this has nothing to do with religion at all. Just simple matter of oppressor & the oppressed. Who's side are you on?
I am on the side of humanity, against oppressors - just same who might they be.
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anatolian
07-31-2017, 08:25 AM
Of course torture is a crime and what they do can not be supported but this video too lacks information. Who are those people? Were they just innocent people or criminals? Why are the soldiers beating them? We cant understand these from the video.

Apart from that, you still promote your antiturkist propoganda. These are three Turkish soldiers and you want to associate what they do with the entire Turkish people by saying "Turks". Thats so cheap.
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Simple_Person
07-31-2017, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Of course torture is a crime and what they do can not be supported but this video too lacks information. Who are those people? Were they just innocent people or criminals? Why are the soldiers beating them? We cant understand these from the video.

Apart from that, you still promote your antiturkist propoganda. These are three Turkish soldiers and you want to associate what they do with the entire Turkish people by saying "Turks". Thats so cheap.
You LACK A LOT of Islamic understanding. It doesn't matter that if the guys torturing were YOUR AND MY own parents. Islam PROHIBITS torturing of prisoners for the sake of hatred or useless enjoyment.

Your comment shows that you rather put Islam on #2 and Turkish perspective on #1. When i judge something that i see, i first look at WHAT IS THE NORM? What norm am i talking about? The yardstick that i judge things by. When i see somebody being mistreated, like this example. It doesn't matter if they are criminals..it doesn't matter if they just killed my and your brother, we judge according to Islam. If Islamic law says eye for an eye, it does NOT say you are permitted to torture them first before they being killed.

That is why i often say, clean your heart dude. Because on the Day Of Judgement you would have wished you have done what i advised to do so. You have said in the past Erdogan is no angel, nobody is an angel, we are human beings. However a Muslim who makes mistakes is clear from a hypocrite. Muslim blood is MORE sacred than Ka'bah it self, however you KNOW Erdogan and many nationalistic Turks including many nationalistic Kurds do not look from that perspective.

CLEAN YOUR HEART..because you are not promised tomorrow.
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sister herb
07-31-2017, 10:09 AM
We should to be careful and not base our opinions for few videos which might have done for the propaganda purposes only. Both sides of every conflict try the most effective way to show their own side story - and unfortunately many times they don´t serve the truth. That´s why I wouldn´t trust only YouTube videos.

About shooting Syrian refugees on the border area has been reported during few years but how organized action it is, is not known. In some cases border police has announced they thought those refugees are smugglers or armed fighters.

Two Syrian civilians shot dead by Turkish border police, say activists

14. July 2017 harekact

There have been many reports of incidents on the Syrian-Turkish border since as early as 2014, according to Amnesty International
Via Middle East Eye –-

Two Syrian civilians attempting to cross the Turkish borders have been shot dead by Turkish border police, local activists have reported. The two men were identified as Hassan Mustafa and Abduljabar Aldali from a town called Kifr Kar in the northern suburbs of Aleppo.

“There have been a lot of shooting incidents on the Turkish borders recently, with Turkish border police becoming increasingly worried about people crossing over,” a journalist in Aleppo, who did not wish to be named, told Middle East Eye.

Middle East Eye could not independently verify the reports of the deaths, which occurred on Wednesday night. “The guys were trying to cross the borders through the areas controlled by Fatah al-Sham,” explained the source.

Splits emerged between Turkey and nominally pro-Turkish fighters in northern Syria after the leader of one group said he was imprisoned by Turkey for three weeks following the proclaimed end of Operation Euphrates Shield. It was unclear however, why Turkish border police were shooting at people trying to cross the border.

In June 2016, eight Syrian refugees were shot dead by Turkish border guards as they tried to escape war-torn northern Syria, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) had reported at the time. The 2016 shooting reportedly took place at the unofficial Khirbet al-Jouz crossing north of the Syrian town of Jisr al-Shugour, which is controlled by militant groups.

The Turkish military rejected the claims at the time, maintaining they were “not true”. It said in a statement: “Last night there was an attempt to cross the border illegally but no shots were fired directly on people.”

According to Andrew Gardner, Turkey researcher at Amnesty International: “There have been many reports of incidents on the border. We collected information on this as early as 2014, when we received many reports of people being shot when they were trying to cross the border irregularly,” he told RT in March 2016. Gardner also said at the time that the plight of refugees in Syria has driven many of them into the “hands of smugglers” or forced them to cross the border at night.

At the same time, Turkish guards fire shots at refugees based on what they say are safety measures. “What the Turkish parties have told us is that they don’t know who these people are, that people could be members of armed groups, they could be smugglers,” he added.

The article was originally published at Middle East Eye ( http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/tw...sts-1574344773 )
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anatolian
07-31-2017, 10:13 AM
I dont promote everything what the Turkish army or officials or people do anyway. I have just admited that what they do is wrong in that video. However your attempt of disgracing Turkish nation as a whole is obvious and not respect worthy. Turks have been one of the best people on this planet on many aspects of life throughout history. Everybody says the same thing except the ones who are jaelous with us. It comes from both Islam and our historical culture. As for the Turkish army.. They have been merciful towards the weak but harsh towards the traitor most of the time. And if one day Muslims releave from oppresion it will be by the army of the Turk, I assure you.
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sister herb
07-31-2017, 10:25 AM
I believe that Turkish people are good ones and that´s why we could (even at once) discuss here without turning this kind of threads to blaming each others (nothing personal against anyone but it seems to be quite common when we talk about conflicts between people). So, calm down everyone and let´s talk only about the facts (if we can find them from the jungle of propaganda for and against).
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Simple_Person
07-31-2017, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
I dont promote everything what the Turkish army or officials or people do anyway. I have just admited that what they do is wrong in that video. However your attempt of disgracing Turkish nation as a whole is obvious and not respect worthy. Turks have been one of the best people on this planet on many aspects of life throughout history. Everybody says the same thing except the ones who are jaelous with us. It comes from both Islam and our historical culture. As for the Turkish army.. They have been merciful towards the weak but harsh towards the traitor most of the time. And if one day Muslims releave from oppresion it will be by the army of the Turk, I assure you.
The future will decide that. I have tried many times to reasonably talk to Turks, but the brainwashing based only on nationalism have made them blind for what is truly going on. So again, future will decide the fate of the Turks and if you ask me for what i am concluding based on the input i get ...it doesn't look good for it. A piece of land that will be engulfed in anarchy. From the little that we do know, Islamic end of times also somehow confirms that Turkey will be chaotic. If it happens within 10 years, 100 years or 1000 years...only Allah knows when. But it is not the matter of "if".

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by sister herb
I believe that Turkish people are good ones and that´s why we could (even at once) discuss here without turning this kind of threads to blaming each others (nothing personal against anyone but it seems to be quite common when we talk about conflicts between people). So, calm down everyone and let´s talk only about the facts (if we can find them from the jungle of propaganda for and against).
The problem is that nobody asks the question of how come PKK exists? Have they asked people who are pro-PKK why PKK exists? Have they asked Kurds why they think PKK exist. All you hear from Turks is PKK has come to existence to divide the Muslims and to destroy Turkey etc. etc. However when the question is raised of what has and is happening in Turkey, they ignore you. If somebody ignores me and what i have to say, sorry but this person automatically becomes my enemy even if they say they are a Muslim.

A rational human being would indeed admit that if you in the past would have oppressed me and are still trying to do or not anymore, i have NO TRUST in you. However this simple approach Turks somehow cannot process. Allah has made them blind for what they are doing. So all they are doing is further more dig their own grave, because nationalism is all they pursue. The mouth speaks what the heart contains, the mind thinks what the heart contains. When a animal is cornered, it will do what it desires the most. It will NO longer think of anything else, just do everything to survive.

This war with Syria, we also have seen with Erdogan. Erdogan said to Barzani (a leader of south Kurdish (modern day northern Iraq)) that they will help them to any enemy when they are in danger. Back in 2014 ISIS almost invaded Erbil, Turkey was no where to be seen. ISIS had for so many years borders with Turkey, Turkey did NOTHING..suddenly when YPG took over, Turkey took action. YPG conquered more and more and Turkey took also more action. Turkey gave weapons to armed groups in Syria, and Turkish news agencies reported this to the public, however those people were put in jail. Now even Erdogan is buying S400 Ground-to-Air missile system from Russia, however they took a loan from Russia to be able to pay for it. Last time i checked riba (taking ribba or paying ribba) was FORBIDDEN in Islam. and MUCH MUCH MUCH more.. things that i left unsaid.

Islam is clear on certain things and NO interpretation is needed, while on other subjects it is left for interpretation. Where are the Turks that say i am a Muslim, but go by the rulings of a hypocrite? Saying somebody is a hypocrite is not easy, but their actions will make them visible as sky is clear from the earth. Day of Judgement will NOT go easy for Turks who say they are Muslim, but do whatever they want to do to keep their mouth shut ALL for unity among Turks, ALTHOUGH what is happening goes AGAINST Islamic teachings.
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Mustafa16
07-31-2017, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
The future will decide that. I have tried many times to reasonably talk to Turks, but the brainwashing based only on nationalism have made them blind for what is truly going on. So again, future will decide the fate of the Turks and if you ask me for what i am concluding based on the input i get ...it doesn't look good for it. A piece of land that will be engulfed in anarchy. From the little that we do know, Islamic end of times also somehow confirms that Turkey will be chaotic. If it happens within 10 years, 100 years or 1000 years...only Allah knows when. But it is not the matter of "if".

- - - Updated - - -



The problem is that nobody asks the question of how come PKK exists? Have they asked people who are pro-PKK why PKK exists? Have they asked Kurds why they think PKK exist. All you hear from Turks is PKK has come to existence to divide the Muslims and to destroy Turkey etc. etc. However when the question is raised of what has and is happening in Turkey, they ignore you. If somebody ignores me and what i have to say, sorry but this person automatically becomes my enemy even if they say they are a Muslim.

A rational human being would indeed admit that if you in the past would have oppressed me and are still trying to do or not anymore, i have NO TRUST in you. However this simple approach Turks somehow cannot process. Allah has made them blind for what they are doing. So all they are doing is further more dig their own grave, because nationalism is all they pursue. The mouth speaks what the heart contains, the mind thinks what the heart contains. When a animal is cornered, it will do what it desires the most. It will NO longer think of anything else, just do everything to survive.

This war with Syria, we also have seen with Erdogan. Erdogan said to Barzani (a leader of south Kurdish (modern day northern Iraq)) that they will help them to any enemy when they are in danger. Back in 2014 ISIS almost invaded Erbil, Turkey was no where to be seen. ISIS had for so many years borders with Turkey, Turkey did NOTHING..suddenly when YPG took over, Turkey took action. YPG conquered more and more and Turkey took also more action. Turkey gave weapons to armed groups in Syria, and Turkish news agencies reported this to the public, however those people were put in jail. Now even Erdogan is buying S400 Ground-to-Air missile system from Russia, however they took a loan from Russia to be able to pay for it. Last time i checked riba (taking ribba or paying ribba) was FORBIDDEN in Islam. and MUCH MUCH MUCH more.. things that i left unsaid.

Islam is clear on certain things and NO interpretation is needed, while on other subjects it is left for interpretation. Where are the Turks that say i am a Muslim, but go by the rulings of a hypocrite? Saying somebody is a hypocrite is not easy, but their actions will make them visible as sky is clear from the earth. Day of Judgement will NOT go easy for Turks who say they are Muslim, but do whatever they want to do to keep their mouth shut ALL for unity among Turks, ALTHOUGH what is happening goes AGAINST Islamic teachings.
I'm sorry if I've offended you in the past, bro. But anyway, I agree with you, nationalism is a cancer, all across the Muslim world, including in Turkey. What I find with Turkish people (or most groups of Muslims for that matter) is that they put the needs of their nation above the needs of the ummah. Every Muslim nation thinks it is the center of everything, and thy put their petty arguments with each other over everything else, and shed blood in the name of nationalism. Nationalism, especially the "anti-imperialist" kind, makes a nation turn authoritarian, autocratic, and ignorant about human dignity in the shariah. But as soon as any Muslim or non-Muslim nations points this out, they are labeled as "imperialists". Turkish people I have found are too proud. And I agree, the PKK didn't just come out of nowhere. While I don't support the PKK, I agree that they came to this point by becoming desperate through the cultural genocide, forced assimilation, vote rigging in the Southeast by "Village Guards" (In April 16 referendum, as shown by Al Monitor), military rule, excessive force, false flag attacks, etc. Many Kurdish cities have been leveled to rubble and been destroyed, and even the United Nations has condemned Turkey's use of excessive force (much like Assad in Syria or Israel in Gaza).
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Simple_Person
07-31-2017, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I'm sorry if I've offended you in the past, bro. But anyway, I agree with you, nationalism is a cancer, all across the Muslim world, including in Turkey. What I find with Turkish people (or most groups of Muslims for that matter) is that they put the needs of their nation above the needs of the ummah. Every Muslim nation thinks it is the center of everything, and thy put their petty arguments with each other over everything else, and shed blood in the name of nationalism. Nationalism, especially the "anti-imperialist" kind, makes a nation turn authoritarian, autocratic, and ignorant about human dignity in the shariah. But as soon as any Muslim or non-Muslim nations points this out, they are labeled as "imperialists". Turkish people I have found are too proud. And I agree, the PKK didn't just come out of nowhere. While I don't support the PKK, I agree that they came to this point by becoming desperate through the cultural genocide, forced assimilation, vote rigging in the Southeast by "Village Guards" (In April 16 referendum, as shown by Al Monitor), military rule, excessive force, false flag attacks, etc. Many Kurdish cities have been leveled to rubble and been destroyed, and even the United Nations has condemned Turkey's use of excessive force (much like Assad in Syria or Israel in Gaza).
What i said goes also for you. Stop the whole "gulenist" approach. You do not need to follow any group to have benefits. You love science + Islam? Well nobody here is against this rather i believe majority on this forum and Muslims are pro science + Islam, but nobody says they are Gulenists. I have said in the past, Gulen approach is a glass is full of water, but a drop of oil is added(nationalism), it becomes undrinkable. Think about what i am trying to tell you. It is not trying to insult you or whatever, but you will end up in your grave and the questions that will be asked will NOT be about being a Gulenist. Islam is already complete and nowhere does it prohibit us to pursue science, it even promotes us to investigate and to question..to pursue a way to go and discover more ayaat of Allah through scientific discoveries.

I daily ponder about the wisdom behind certain actions in Islam and not one month goes by if i ponder about it, that i find new amazing piece of wisdom that again strengthens my imaan.

Think because when you end up in your grave NO other pro-Gulen member will join you. You are on your own and ONLY Allah will help you as He only is sufficient for each and every one of us.
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Mustafa16
07-31-2017, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
What i said goes also for you. Stop the whole "gulenist" approach. You do not need to follow any group to have benefits. You love science + Islam? Well nobody here is against this rather i believe majority on this forum and Muslims are pro science + Islam, but nobody says they are Gulenists. I have said in the past, Gulen approach is a glass is full of water, but a drop of oil is added(nationalism), it becomes undrinkable. Think about what i am trying to tell you. It is not trying to insult you or whatever, but you will end up in your grave and the questions that will be asked will NOT be about being a Gulenist. Islam is already complete and nowhere does it prohibit us to pursue science, it even promotes us to investigate and to question..to pursue a way to go and discover more ayaat of Allah through scientific discoveries.

I daily ponder about the wisdom behind certain actions in Islam and not one month goes by if i ponder about it, that i find new amazing piece of wisdom that again strengthens my imaan.

Think because when you end up in your grave NO other pro-Gulen member will join you. You are on your own and ONLY Allah will help you as He only is sufficient for each and every one of us.
I wouldn't say I was a Gulenist to begin with. I attended their sunday school classes as a kid and went to activities with and received religious instruction from "elder brothers"up until the beginning of 8th grade, went to Eid prayers twice a year because i never had a driver's license and my mother drove me there, (I attend friday prayer at a different masjid), and used to go to other events a few times a year simply to see girls and people my family know. I don't believe in their ideology, I always say no to going to events whenever my mentor (an old man, not an "elder brother") asks, I only attendeda sohbet once, (religious discussion surrounding Said Nursi's Rirsale-i-Nur), I know some people, but I don't agree with them having (previously, long ago) entered politics taking a side and doing their work, and I was never taught in any of the classes about "Turkish nationalism". In sunday school, i would learn turkish, but only because everyone there was turkish, and i wouldn't be taught that "turks are a great race" or "turks are a great nation," etc. only "the ottoman empire used to be the most powerful nation on Earth because they followed true Islamic values" so it was more of an Islamic tilt, rather than a nationalist one. we never discussed the kurdish issue, or politics (in classes and religious events) other than after the failed coup when we were under persecution. I don't understand exactly where you ae getting this idea that we are "Turkish nationalists and that means you should stay away" sure, there was some nationalism before, like when we allied with the AKP, but that was mostly when they were leaning towards Islamist rather than nationalist (only recently have they begun to seek the nationalist vote). and also how in our schools around the world they teach turkish, ok, THAT I have to hand to you, but their is nothing wrong with their aqeedah, and we don't all agree on the same things anyway. we follow the ashari school of aqeedah, believe in seal of Prophethood to Muhammad (SAWS), 5 pillars of Islam, 6 pillars of faith, Islamic practices and rituals, sober sufism, segregation of sexes, we DO NOT believe Gulen is Mahdi, we believe in tawheed, and don't do grave worship (asking dead people to make dua for you), feel sorry for muslim brothers and sisters who are oppressed, etc.
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Abz2000
07-31-2017, 07:53 PM
Something we all need to keep in mind is that Turkish people have been forced away from Islam after the sabotaging of what remained of the khilafah, and since there was only national news and no international discussion or outside information except from travellers, it was difficult for many to stay in touch with Islam, especially with all the vilification, threats, and trend setting by secularists in positions of national governement. The secularist anti islamic machine was basically built there by those behind the dismemberment of the khilafah and hordes of idiots were funded and supported heavily with the aim of erasing it's islamic roots since it was like a critical bufferzone between the so called christian/Godless and islamic nations. Apparently even private islamic evening classes were banned and people had to secretly teach their children and teachers lived under threat of arrest.
Despite all this, many struggled to keep the torch of faith alight and we are seeing a positive Islamic resurgence in the country.
The negative parts - many of us have seen, but I believe there needs to be a focus on promotion of Islam - especially due to the fact that it is one of the - if not the - most respectful of Islam out of countries west of it's borders.
Comparing turkey with syria in terms of adherence to Islam is therefore difficult due to the many variables.
Got to remember that these kids grew up in a nationalistic fervour and drumbeating in state schools and that secularism was used in an attempt to replace God by the criminal sellout kemalists.

With all that said, and racist nationalism removed from the picture, there is no real benefit in a compromising alliance with the israhelli criminals, they're nothing more than a corruptive influence on your government and souls, and the technology they sell you is used to spy on you and your military apparatus. Also useful to bear in mind that turkey has been used by the zionists and cia in the past in order to subvert the mujahideen and use them for strategic purposes with goals other than the benefit of Islam in the mind of the secularists. And since your government knows exactly what's going on, there's reason to believe that it is either being bullied, or has been hijacked a long time ago by the enemies of Allah.

Still: reading recent reports from kemalist secularists about how Islam has "hijacked" Turkey carries with it a certain irony and relish.

And when they say stuff like "Islamism has hijacked my country, the middle east and the 'Arab Spring', not only politically, but culturally as well." I can't help wondering why the secularists tried to hijack and co-opt Muslim majority nations, the middle east, and the Arab spring, didn't they realise that people would suffer from a gag reaction once the true colours of secularism came to light - just as is happening even in non-Muslim majority nations?
It's a fact that secularism does not suit or serve the common masses for very long since it's essence is Godless greed.


I'm not linking the article due to it's totally negative and psychologically exhausting and unrealistic slant against Islam, but I'll quote a part where the secularist dude said:

"It would also be wrong to explain this turn of events with reference to differences between right and left, since these distinctions are far more complex in Turkey. The biggest chasm between left and right in our politics now is religion; it all hinges on whether “you are pious or not.” "
------
And you know a person has no dignity or even genuine nationalist sympathy as he/she like to portray - since they use terms like nationalism and democracy to explain away their crookedness, when they speak as if so called "western" secularist leaders have a right to choose or approve their leader:

"It was only his western counterparts and pundits who were hoping that someone with strong loyalties to Sharia would abide by secular law. By now, they must be amazed at how wrong they got it."
I think one country cannot push external bullying and meddling of secularists away by itself very easily, and that there are many complicated scenarios behind the scenes, but I do think it will become easier as people continue to wake up and support their governments in positive Islamic projects - whilst dissenting against injustice and at the same time, looking at the overall picture so that they don't fall for the trick of being co-opted to push over their government when a frenzy is worked up by neocon and zionist secularists if a decision to overthrow gets made in washington because the leader didn't betray his people nearly as much as the crooks wanted.
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Simple_Person
08-01-2017, 07:34 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I wouldn't say I was a Gulenist to begin with. I attended their sunday school classes as a kid and went to activities with and received religious instruction from "elder brothers"up until the beginning of 8th grade, went to Eid prayers twice a year because i never had a driver's license and my mother drove me there, (I attend friday prayer at a different masjid), and used to go to other events a few times a year simply to see girls and people my family know. I don't believe in their ideology, I always say no to going to events whenever my mentor (an old man, not an "elder brother") asks, I only attendeda sohbet once, (religious discussion surrounding Said Nursi's Rirsale-i-Nur), I know some people, but I don't agree with them having (previously, long ago) entered politics taking a side and doing their work, and I was never taught in any of the classes about "Turkish nationalism". In sunday school, i would learn turkish, but only because everyone there was turkish, and i wouldn't be taught that "turks are a great race" or "turks are a great nation," etc. only "the ottoman empire used to be the most powerful nation on Earth because they followed true Islamic values" so it was more of an Islamic tilt, rather than a nationalist one. we never discussed the kurdish issue, or politics (in classes and religious events) other than after the failed coup when we were under persecution. I don't understand exactly where you ae getting this idea that we are "Turkish nationalists and that means you should stay away" sure, there was some nationalism before, like when we allied with the AKP, but that was mostly when they were leaning towards Islamist rather than nationalist (only recently have they begun to seek the nationalist vote). and also how in our schools around the world they teach turkish, ok, THAT I have to hand to you, but their is nothing wrong with their aqeedah, and we don't all agree on the same things anyway. we follow the ashari school of aqeedah, believe in seal of Prophethood to Muhammad (SAWS), 5 pillars of Islam, 6 pillars of faith, Islamic practices and rituals, sober sufism, segregation of sexes, we DO NOT believe Gulen is Mahdi, we believe in tawheed, and don't do grave worship (asking dead people to make dua for you), feel sorry for muslim brothers and sisters who are oppressed, etc.
To see where it is the 1 drop of oil, you have to look deep. If a group teaches you certain language that does not really benefit you in the advances of Islamic understanding, this is the sideline. What i am talking about is Turkish language. In south Kurdistan (modern day northern Iraq) there were also such schools that indeed promote the loving of Turkish nation with it teaching Turkish to the students. Btw, if you say ..look he is saying "south Kurdistan" so that is nationalism. I do NOT acknowledge Sykes–Picot Agreement or any other treaty that has divided Muslims. Kurdistan simple means the place where the Kurds are. So if even a large city in US has a large community of Kurds, that would technically also be named Kurdistan in city X. Why do i not acknowledge all those treaties? I do not play by their game, if i through psychological means accept a "Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Jordan etc. etc. that means that i have accepted their treaties. Which i don't and i speak out about it. When i am asked which ethnicity i am i also say i am a Kurd when they say from which part i say from Kurdistan. Then when they try to downplay it, i give them the reality of things. Because Muslims being brainwashed is the first step by accepting the treaties that divide the Muslims. Do not be a sheep.

Now is the question, what has loving the Turkish nation to do with getting Islamic knowledge and understanding? Or learning Turkish has to do with being able to understand Islamic knowledge. That being said, within your comment you also brought forth that the Ottoman empire "followed true Islamic values". This also is NOT true. The drop of oil in the glass of water can only be seen when you question things. How often do you see that the "followers" of such groups question the "drop of oil"? You will not rather you will see..just sheep...beeehhh..



I'm not sure what you mean by "sober sufism" and i never have claimed that they see Gulen as a Mahdi or that sort. A group branding itself certain name besides Muslim is already ingredients of deviation. I even hate to "admit" to other people that i am a Sunni-Muslim, rather i say i am a Muslim. Although these days if you follow Allah and His messenger (Qur'an and AUTHENTIC ahadith) you are automatically branded as such as you follow the sunnah (sunni).
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Simple_Person
08-01-2017, 08:05 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Something we all need to keep in mind is that Turkish people have been forced away from Islam after the sabotaging of what remained of the khilafah, and since there was only national news and no international discussion or outside information except from travellers, it was difficult for many to stay in touch with Islam, especially with all the vilification, threats, and trend setting by secularists in positions of national governement. The secularist anti islamic machine was basically built there by those behind the dismemberment of the khilafah and hordes of idiots were funded and supported heavily with the aim of erasing it's islamic roots since it was like a critical bufferzone between the so called christian/Godless and islamic nations. Apparently even private islamic evening classes were banned and people had to secretly teach their children and teachers lived under threat of arrest.

Despite all this, many struggled to keep the torch of faith alight and we are seeing a positive Islamic resurgence in the country.
The negative parts - many of us have seen, but I believe there needs to be a focus on promotion of Islam - especially due to the fact that it is one of the - if not the - most respectful of Islam out of countries west of it's borders.
Comparing turkey with syria in terms of adherence to Islam is therefore difficult due to the many variables.
Got to remember that these kids grew up in a nationalistic fervour and drumbeating in state schools and that secularism was used in an attempt to replace God by the criminal sellout kemalists.
To be VERY honest, the Turks that mostly live in Turkey are victims of propaganda and as a LOGICAL AND RATIONAL person i could agree to this and give them this excuse. However what about Turks outside Turkey? Have you ever tried to talk to those? What excuse do they have of not knowing something or not being able to know something as it is being prevented. Although even for Turks that do live in Turkey, now a days with internet to have dialogue with others outside the borders has NEVER become this easy. So based on this perspective they have no argument why they do what they do. What i recently have noticed people in general just do NOT care about what is happening. All they care about is getting money and feeding their children. Even recently i tried to teach some acquaintances of mine (western people) something. I said some things that shocked them coming from my mouth, later on i said have you given any thought why i said what i said? They said we are too busy and have no time to think about it. Later on i said this is EXACTLY what corrupt politicians want you to do. They gather you like sheep to the left if they do not want you to go to the right and they guide you to the right if they do not want you to go to the left. They said we are on our own..what can we do about it? I said, stop voting in elections as it is all corrupt. The reactions was more then enough..they laughed and got in to the car although they KNOW what i said is true about politics being only lies and deceit. That is when i realized these people will NOT think for themselves. Just leave them in their day to day life. But slowly taking a step away from them as they are not willing to think about anything else, besides the usual day-to-day nonsense. Such people with such shallow way of thinking will even report you as they are not willing to give what you say any thought or ask you questions why you said what you said.


Originally Posted by Abz2000
I think one country cannot push external bullying and meddling of secularists away by itself very easily, and that there are many complicated scenarios behind the scenes, but I do think it will become easier as people continue to wake up and support their governments in positive Islamic projects - whilst dissenting against injustice and at the same time, looking at the overall picture so that they don't fall for the trick of being co-opted to push over their government when a frenzy is worked up by neocon and zionist secularists if a decision to overthrow gets made in washington because the leader didn't betray his people nearly as much as the crooks wanted.
We live in a time where "our" leaders are the most unsuitable and most evil among us. So how can such a leader/government try to bring up a Islamic project. With secularist, it reminds me of hadith about end time of i believe shari'a being implemented all over the world even when the disbelievers do not like it. In other words shove it down their throats when we talk about democratic elections. There are some people who are willing to listen to what you have to say. For example why certain shari'a rules are like that. While others are such evil human beings that Allah has taken away any small wisdom or knowledge or patience. They will rebel even if YOU give them money..rather they want more of it and feel like as if you have done them injustice by not giving them more money all though it was your money and they have no right to claim it.

If we would implemented the whole democratic approach to it and thus majority wanting shari'a being implemented you see the double standards of secularist. However if this would be implemented people like Erdogan for example or Saudi Arabian leaders would be tried immediately. As there is no separation between religion and state. They would be held accountable for taking decisions that are contradictory to Islamic law.
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ebubekir01
08-19-2017, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Watch and judge for yourself. Propaganda is one thing (white helmets) always depicting Turks for example as innocent and others as barbarians.

For sure on the day of judgement no criminal will be able to escape their judgement.

BE AWARE..GRAPHICAL!!

thats lie and you should be banned for this lie and black propaganda!

turkey hosts 3.500.000 innocent syrian refugees from all religions and races.
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ebubekir01
08-19-2017, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Thanks to Allah for internet :).

*kuch*..*kuch*..*kuch*..Turkish hypocrisy..*kuch*..*kuch*. .*kuch*...

Nobody has to believe me, everybody has a brain and everybody has a fitrah to be guided by. When one sees Erdogan first curse Assaad and talk big against Russia..to later on be big friends..sorry to say this, but no "political interest" can outweigh Muslim lives. In Islam Muslim life is MORE precious than the ka'bah, so how in the world is suddenly "political strategy" aka Turkish national interest more important than Muslim lives?

So yes INDEED, ALHAMDULILLAH for people being smart enough to question and see the hypocrisy of people.



noone needs to believe you bcoz you are not turkish you dont live in turkey and you dont know anything about turkey and its people's situation for last 20 or 30 years .

you dont know which progresses has been made since last 15 years during Erdoğan administration? come and ask kurdish people who werent accepted like normal citizens and humanbeings in Turkey before 2002 erdoğan govts. and come and see progress of infrastructures and superstructures all around Turkey. faster trains great bridges pavements divided roads huge hospitals take care patients from all over the world! etc.

but western media keeps telling lie about erdoğan and his party ak party.

there are lots of Kurdish governers, ministers, attorneys and deputies in the ak party and ak party governments!

but you ignore them as "patriot kurds" and i know you assume them as "traitors" but you accept HDP (pkk terror organisation's so called legal political party)
as legal representative of all kurdish ppl. thats your hypocrisy!

erdoğan is known for his istanbul mayor carrier by this country people. come and ask people in istanbul about " before and after erdoğan mayor" of istanbul?

letme tell you who hates erdoğan?

nazi remnant germany, terror supporter baby killer america, occupier israel, doesnt like erdoğan.
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sister herb
08-19-2017, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by ebubekir01

letme tell you who hates erdoğan?

nazi remnant germany, terror supporter baby killer america, occupier israel, doesnt like erdoğan.
You can add to this list also human right activists.
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ebubekir01
08-19-2017, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
You can add to this list also human right activists.
LOL human right activists? are you serious?
where are those HRActivists when israel murders innocent palestine ppl
when america invades iraq when
where were they when israel attacked a turkish aid ship and killed 10 innocent volunteer who tries to help gaza people?
which "human right activists" do you mean ?
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Shahi
08-19-2017, 03:47 PM
Crime is a crime even the imam or the slave do it; Allah give punishment even to a shaheed .

So it may be a Turk or any other NATO force they are not allowed to play with other's weakness and self esteem,they should be protected.Islam teach us about humanity .so, if a group of people from a country do such commitments for fun it will not mean that,the whole country and the national leader support them to do it or order them to torture.
But I prefer if the country punish the group of people for their crime.

But another technological virus is (may be)cheating channels. I could see some isreali websites publish news as palastinians bombing on isreali houses and demolish their buildings;but true news was Isreal was attacking palestine and killing people. That is politics to create a place in peoples' mind!!
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sister herb
08-19-2017, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by ebubekir01
which "human right activists" do you mean ?
For example myself.

Crimes against humanity made by others never give any kind of justify to made them by yourself. (Note that with this I didn´t mean personally "you".)
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ebubekir01
08-19-2017, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
For example myself.

Crimes against huminity made by others never give any kind of justice to made them by yourself. (Note that with this I didn´t mean personally "you".)
Turkey and Erdoğan govt. are the most generous country and govt. around world against syrian refugees, somalia palestine iraqi refugees etc. thats the truth you dont want to see and you tell lies about Turkey and Erdoğan. go ask palestine somalia ppl what they think about erdoğan and other western countries and non muslim so called human right activists invaded their countries!

show me a "human right activist" group accuses erdoğan with being dictator and ill show you how hypocrite they are (include you!)

erdoğan is 8 times elected president and was prime minister! Turkey is a democrasy! but not like western democrasies love dictator sisi but blame elected mursi!

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by sister herb
For example myself.

Crimes against humanity made by others never give any kind of justify to made them by yourself. (Note that with this I didn´t mean personally "you".)
go and ask palestine people about erdoğan!
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Simple_Person
08-19-2017, 04:20 PM
The joke of the day with yet another brainwashed Turk ;D.

Monkey see monkey do, Erdogan does a really good job i must say by keeping the monkey mentality to many Turks.

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sister herb
08-19-2017, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by ebubekir01
you are illiterate or ignorant!
Now some manners to this discussion. You know nothing about me. Read the rules and calm down. Members have right for their opinions here but no rights for the personal attacks.
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Simple_Person
08-19-2017, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Now some manners to this discussion. You know nothing about me. Read the rules and calm down. Members have right for their opinions here but no rights for the personal attacks.
Sister, why are you so "insulted" ;D . Now you experience it yourself. This sister, this is the TYPICAL behavior of those brainwashed Turks. They give you only propaganda they have seen on Turkish tv, they like sheep follow what their politicians say.

If you disagree with them give, logic, rationality and reason with critical and VALID questions, they start to insult you, call names, threaten you. Only caveman behavior.
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sister herb
08-19-2017, 05:01 PM
^ I like Turkish sheeps - specially when they are well barbecued. :giggling: (Sorry joking.)
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Simple_Person
08-19-2017, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
^ I like Turkish sheeps - specially when they are well barbecued. :giggling: (Sorry joking.)
Please do not insult sheeps. They are servants of Allah (all other creation does not have free will and thus automatically has submitted to Allah). Turkish and sheep is rather contradictory. Because Islam and nationalism doesn't mix.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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anatolian
08-19-2017, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
^ I like Turkish sheeps - specially when they are well barbecued. :giggling: (Sorry joking.)
Those sheep are British...
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Mustafa16
08-20-2017, 02:32 AM
Originally Posted by ebubekir01
LOL human right activists? are you serious?
where are those HRActivists when israel murders innocent palestine ppl
when america invades iraq when
where were they when israel attacked a turkish aid ship and killed 10 innocent volunteer who tries to help gaza people?
which "human right activists" do you mean ?
actually there are many western and even jewish activists who support the people of palestine, but you would never know that from your turkish propoganda machine. haven't you heard of human rights watch or amnesty international? btw, turkey arrested the local heads of amnesty international on their soil. yes, the us invasion of iraq was a horrible mistake but what does that have to do with turkey? are you saying just because america does something bad it gives turkey the right to violate human rights as well? so if i killed an innocent person, you should kill an innocent person because i did it? also there WAS condemnation of the turkish aid ship being shot down, as far as I can remember, but keep in mind, Turkey was sending a ship into Gaza, which had weapons in it btw, and regardless of whether or not it had weapons in it, it was trying to cross israeli jurisdictio without permission....what do you expect? if you believe the zionists are so evil, why weren't you expecting a reaction? this was a clearly a provocation, that was only intended to end badly to score diplomatic points. I challenge you to google "Human rights watch" and "amnesty international" also, read this: https://turkeypurge.com/

did you know that one of those arrested was a UN Judge who had diplomatic immunity, and was working on investigating the Rwandan genocide? did you know that the United Nations referred turkey to the Security Council? EDIT: Btw, most americans were/are against the Iraq war. EDIT: and many americans criticized the human rights abuses committed against the Iraqis including a transgender military officer who leaked government classified documents on the lies the american military was putting out about iraq and the number of casualties, who died in the airstrikes, war crimes, etc. and was pardoned by PRESIDENT Barack Obama.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by ebubekir01
you are illiterate or ignorant! Turkey and Erdoğan govt. are the most generous country and govt. around world against syrian refugees, somalia palestine iraqi refugees etc. thats the truth you dont want to see and you tell lies about Turkey and Erdoğan. go ask palestine somalia ppl what they think about erdoğan and other western countries and non muslim so called human right activists invaded their countries!

show me a "human right activist" group accuses erdoğan with being dictator and ill show you how hypocrite they are (include you!)

erdoğan is 8 times elected president and was prime minister! Turkey is a democrasy! but not like western democrasies love dictator sisi but blame elected mursi!

- - - Updated - - -



go and ask palestine people about erdoğan!
also, check all the United Nations (Birlesmis Milletler, or BM) condemnations on Israel. But has Turkey received any condemnations? NO.
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Simple_Person
08-20-2017, 06:48 AM
@Mustafa16 , this is the LAST time i will say this. Stop talking to him, because you are wasting your time. In the past i also like you started such discussions with people who would ONLY allow input if it was propaganda, that however i learned it is no use. It is like trying to create a fire with wet wood while it is still raining. Nobody will say "you are the person who has no good argument" if you remained silent. Sometimes silence is the reply to the people who want to stay ignorant.


A good example of remaining silent is this aya.

"Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe." Qur'an 2:6

This rather gives you as a believer for example good advice. Do something useful with your time because these people have a problem why they do not believe. This is the same with people like this guy, propaganda is the only thing that their eyes are open for input as the problem does not lie with facts and logic, rather what is within their hearts. When you love something that much instead of looking through logic, rationality and reason and trying to give a answer to valid questions, they rather just dismiss what you are saying. If they do not do that, it will shatter their core-belief. It is all they live for and their driving force...(nationalism), just like with a mu'min is imaan being their driving force. The difference with a mu'min using logic, rationality and reason, with valid questions and answers makes ones imaan stronger, while the nationalism if logic, rationality and reason come in to play shatters it.

This is for example also something you see with many Christians that stubbornly stick to "Jesus has died for our sins". They just want to close their eyes, put their fingers in their eyes, shout and repeat "Jesus has died for my sins". Because truth is clear from falsehood even with nationalism.

So start to learn to not want to discuss with certain people. I have sadly in the past done that, learn from my mistake, do not repeat the same thing and waste your valuable time.
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Mustafa16
08-20-2017, 07:34 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
@Mustafa16, this is the LAST time i will say this. Stop talking to him, because you are wasting your time. In the past i also like you started such discussions with people who would ONLY allow input if it was propaganda, that however i learned it is no use. It is like trying to create a fire with wet wood while it is still raining. Nobody will say "you are the person who has no good argument" if you remained silent. Sometimes silence is the reply to the people who want to stay ignorant.


A good example of remaining silent is this aya.

"Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe." Qur'an 2:6

This rather gives you as a believer for example good advice. Do something useful with your time because these people have a problem why they do not believe. This is the same with people like this guy, propaganda is the only thing that their eyes are open for input as the problem does not lie with facts and logic, rather what is within their hearts. When you love something that much instead of looking through logic, rationality and reason and trying to give a answer to valid questions, they rather just dismiss what you are saying. If they do not do that, it will shatter their core-belief. It is all they live for and their driving force...(nationalism), just like with a mu'min is imaan being their driving force. The difference with a mu'min using logic, rationality and reason, with valid questions and answers makes ones imaan stronger, while the nationalism if logic, rationality and reason come in to play shatters it.

This is for example also something you see with many Christians that stubbornly stick to "Jesus has died for our sins". They just want to close their eyes, put their fingers in their eyes, shout and repeat "Jesus has died for my sins". Because truth is clear from falsehood even with nationalism.

So start to learn to not want to discuss with certain people. I have sadly in the past done that, learn from my mistake, do not repeat the same thing and waste your valuable time.
alright, brother, ill ignore him.
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Simple_Person
08-20-2017, 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
alright, brother, ill ignore him.
Don't ignore him because I say so, rather it is piece of advice. You will notice even later on, people like that dude and even worse will come on your path. You will spend HOURS if not days on them to have a "discussion", while you will end up knowing it was a wall you were talking to. Much time wasted and you were the only one wasting time.

The Turks who do want to listen, their whole attitude you will notice it is different. So those first moments that you come in to contact with such Turks they will already make it known to you. Thus a discussion can begin.
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anatolian
08-20-2017, 04:10 PM
What else...Still the OP lack to prove his point since those YT videos created by two monkeys do not prove anything. I have all rights to consider them just propoganda.
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Simple_Person
08-20-2017, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
What else...Still the OP lack to prove his point since those YT videos created by two monkeys do not prove anything. I have all rights to consider them just propoganda.
Honesty:

- Person X gives video and says X, person Y says this is pure propaganda. Person X says it indeed could be.
- Person Y gives video and says Y, person X says this is pure propaganda. Person Y, says no it is not without argument.

When one would says, dude, this is propaganda, as a person that seeks honesty, i will say it COULD be as i do not care even if the biggest dictator on the planet is accused of doing X, while it is not true. I will defend that specific thing accused of that dictator. Truth is truth. I do not deny it. I judge people by their actions. With the Turkish politics looking from a objective side and asking questions, i am always brushed off by Turks. Based on what..the only conclusion that i so far have come to is ..nationalism because they do NOT give me objective evidence that stands firm. However me being skeptic that this might not be propaganda is also that Turkish reporters are being jailed for making the weapon trade between Turkey and the rebels in Syria (FACT). This Turks (dishonesty), do not want to talk about it.

I said already in the past. Give me OBJECTIVE evidence that INDEED Fetullah Gulen was the one behind the so called "coup". None was given till this day. With this i have seen Turks are good beating around the bush. Erdogan, first was anti-Assad, then suddenly has become pro-Assad. When this thing is said, the Turks defend him as ..ooh but that is politics. No, politics is one thing and Islamic principles are another thing. In Islam Muslim blood is MORE sacred than the Ka'bah itself, but Erdogan clearly does not see it like that. This dude..is called hypocrisy. You follow your desires not Allah's will.

This what i said is a VALID argument, but i am brushed off as..ooh you are a liar and this and that. A HONEST Turk would say, you indeed are saying something that might contain some truth ..OR he/she would say..let me ponder about what you said.

I may be wrong about 999 things of the 1000 and another person might be right 999 things out of 1000, but that is exactly the point of with every case you untangle it and analyze it individually. I can NEVER be right and you can never be wrong. The truth might sometimes come from me and sometimes from you. We say we are Muslim, well we do not follow our will but His will. You ask questions based on logic, rationality and reason. So far even for you, me giving certain argument with whatever it might be..it is like me insulting your mother..it is that hard to acknowledge the truth. The Turkish society is so intertwined with politics, that i am not sure if you are afraid of telling the truth or you really are convinced of it.

In the past i have given you a SIMPLE argument. What if Mahdi would appear tomorrow and he would say Turks are bad and we must attack the Turks. Just for the sake of argument. What will you do? Which side would you choose? Be thankful of me, bringing this up so you could ponder about it instead of hitting you with such dilemma so to say without you even realizing it.

Allah is tester and Allah tests His creation with such things that they try to hide deep in their hearts. You are no exception to the rule, i am no exception to the rule. You are still alive and make use of it while your soul has not been taken yet.
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anatolian
08-20-2017, 07:35 PM
The investigation for the coup attempt is still going on. Not that I trust Erdoğan and his prosecutors but still there are evidences like crypto messages given by Gülen and his imams within the army for this attempt. All the ranking soldiers involved in the coup are known as gülen jamaat members. It is not easy to prove that since the Gülen jamaat was not an official organ of the state and no member had a "official" card showing their membership of the jamaat. But all the evidences yet to found show Gülen jamaat. Of course it will only be proven after the investigation is finalized but it is not officially proven yet. "If" it is not gülenists who did it, though I give zero chance, I can confess your "intelligence". However, at this point you are not capable of proving innocense of the jamaat too. We will just wait and see the result. I am not a promoter of Erdoğan. I oppose him severly and condemn his unjust actions towards all groups including Gülen jamaat members who are unrelated to the coup. I condemn his unjust actions towards kurdish speakers who are unrelated to PKK too. But, well, what the heck this has anything to do with promoting anti Turkist claims? I can creat a video telling all Kurds are gays and upload it in YT. So, where is the proof? There is not one single evidence in these videos showing it was the Turkish military shooting those people deliberatly. Just two monkeys and a Syrian man telling that. You need more. Unless you do it is called a propoganda.
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sister herb
08-20-2017, 07:43 PM
Can anyone trust the results of investigation when it´s made by Erdogan party himself? They surely want that evidencies show the coup was made by gulenists.
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Simple_Person
08-20-2017, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
The investigation for the coup attempt is still going on. Not that I trust Erdoğan and his prosecutors but still there are evidences like crypto messages given by Gülen and his imams within the army for this attempt. All the ranking soldiers involved in the coup are known as gülen jamaat members. It is not easy to prove that since the Gülen jamaat was not an official organ of the state and no member had a "official" card showing their membership of the jamaat. But all the evidences yet to found show Gülen jamaat. Of course it will only be proven after the investigation is finalized but it is not officially proven yet. "If" it is not gülenists who did it, though I give zero chance, I can confess your "intelligence". However, at this point you are not capable of proving innocense of the jamaat too. We will just wait and see the result. I am not a promoter of Erdoğan. I oppose him severly and condemn his unjust actions towards all groups including Gülen jamaat members who are unrelated to the coup. I condemn his unjust actions towards kurdish speakers who are unrelated to PKK too. But, well, what the heck this has anything to do with promoting anti Turkist claims? I can creat a video telling all Kurds are gays and upload it in YT. So, where is the proof? There is not one single evidence in these videos showing it was the Turkish military shooting those people deliberatly. Just two monkeys and a Syrian man telling that. You need more. Unless you do it is called a propoganda.
Funny thing is, just recenctly Selahattin Demirtas released a letter that talked about Erdogan already have branded him as a terrorist, while the trial has not even ended. This indeed showed much "bias" leaning as the trial being unfair to begin with. I however based on just observation that Erdogan will be the cause of collapse of Turkey. As a Kurd i can tell you with experience is the weakest link for example with Kurds is, we do not have unity. What made Turks stronger, was they had the unity what Kurds did not have. Erdogan is doing exactly that thing that breaks the unity. Gulen supporters hate Erdogan en kemalists, kemalists hate Erdogan and Gulen, Erdogan hates Gulen and Kemalists. There is also NOTHING that one can even think of it, that will wipe this disunity. It ONLY is resulting in to civil war, just matter of time.

About Gulen behind the coup, they being in the army or high position, i am not denying that. Because that was simply a FACT. However what i do is i analyze the coup and based on the observations i ask questions. To give you a few.

- The coup was VERY VERY SLOPPY. Sloppy is even softly expressed. When a coup is attempted there is a CLEAR plan to take hostage person X, Y and Z, building A, B, C know were they are etc. etc. This didn't happen in the slightest.
- Within a VERY small amount of time they already came with LISTS of people as these are part of Gulen and thus terrorists. What logic says is, it NEEDS time to process who is who and put the names on paper so to say. But all the names were already "printed" you could say, so those guys could be prosecuted. This doesn't make sense if it was a real coup.
- Another thing is if a coup was going on, the leader that the coup was going against, would rather sit out until it was safe. While he rather already within the same day or hours i believe returned..this doesn't make sense.

So as a conclusion i am saying, this is very fishy. It rather looks like a staged coup so it makes it very easy to clean the country of people who MIGHT be double agents. The results of the investigation also, don't really look like they will say what are the facts. Why? Because when somebody is already being branded a terrorist, while the investigation is not done, well you know already what is gonna happen.

About the video of "anti-Turkish" propaganda. Turkish is one thing, Turkish army/politics is another thing. This video is rather aimed at Turkish army/politics. Because right now many things happen and it looks like things are being accepted.

For the sake of argument lets say that video is fake indeed. It is a lie and they are trying to twist things in such a way to make the Turks look bad. The question is why? Why would they do that right? I mean if we talk about Kurds (YPG), well it is clear, now is the question why would the Arabs that do not live in Kurdish areas want to make the Turks look bad? Because that guy in the video, doesn't really look like a pro-Assad guy, so that means he is either pro-ISIS or pro-rebels/FSA. We know in both of the cases of ISIS and FSA, Turkey has supported them both in the past. That is a fact, you cannot deny that.

Now what has Turkey done, that such a video would be released to want to make the Turks look bad? All i can conclude is Turkey(politics/army) turning their back on the people that they were helping before. Why would Turkey do such a thing is the next question. It comes down to their OWN POLITICAL INTERESTS not really interests of others although they might be oppressed by groups like Assad.

So even IF we for the sake of argument say yes this is propaganda and we both might agree to that, other questions arise or better said clarity comes to find reasons why such a propaganda might be revealed.

Now, either way, be it a propaganda video or not a propaganda video, it shows something that we rather might ponder about the Turks ..aka Turkish politcs/army aka Erdogan.

So what does this conclude so to say? It says rather, do NOT trust the Turks, as they have no principles. All they care is about their own political interests, not about oppression.
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ebubekir01
08-21-2017, 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Can anyone trust the results of investigation when it´s made by Erdogan party himself? They surely want that evidencies show the coup was made by gulenists.

Turkey is a democracy and we have free elections for 90 years almost and when the man's party elected by votes then that man and his party can form a government. and that government's ministers like justice etc. can appoint some judiciary members.

does that mean " erdoğan's judiciary" or "the elected and legitimate government's appointments" ?
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sister herb
08-21-2017, 12:40 PM
According of many human right activists whose have reported about worsening human right situation in this "democracy", I think there are some other people whose should shame.

By the way, I am 50. About discussing in this forum, I am your sister in Islam, not just some "herb". Some respect there now.
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ebubekir01
08-21-2017, 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
According of many human right activists whose have reported about worsening human right situation in this "democracy", I think there are some other people whose should shame.

By the way, I am 50. About discussing in this forum, I am your sister in Islam, not just some "herb". Some respect there now.
you defames a muslim elected leader! thats all about you. you just read and watch non muslim hypocrite western and money based so called human right blah blah.

watch this islamic scholar from uk and originally from palestine!
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Simple_Person
08-21-2017, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by ebubekir01
you defames a muslim elected leader! thats all about you. you just read and watch non muslim hypocrite western and money based so called human right blah blah.

watch this islamic scholar from uk and originally from palestine!
HAHAHAHAH, i thought there was something fishy about it. I did not read "Palestine" before. *kuch*..*kuch*..Muslim brotherhood..*kuch*..*kuch*. Just like how pro-Erdogan Yusuf al-Qaradawi is. Now branded as a terrorist and even kicked out of many Muslim organizations around the world. I am seriously Laughing Out Loud.

In other words "Sony says Sony-products are the best" :Emoji22::Emoji22::Emoji22::Emoji22:

If i am not mistaken there is a hadith about the Islamic scholars in the end times they being the most despicable among men. Now a days many Muslims have held scholars in such a high regard, while not really listening and analyzing what they are saying. " OOh you are a Islamic scholar? well then you have absolutely NO hidden agenda"-mentality of Muslims these days =_=!.

While the attitude of a Muslim must be, listen to what a scholar says. Do not follow blindly, really listen. If they are defending somebody that based on Islamic logic, rationality and reason doesn't really follow Islam whatsoever, that means take a few steps away from that scholar. But i guess people like you..just blindly follow as they praise your big hero..Erdogan.
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Zzz_
08-22-2017, 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by Shahi
Allah give punishment even to a shaheed .
That is not true. Do not say things you are not sure of.


It was reported in the hadeeth of al-Miqdaam ibn Ma’di Karb that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:


“The martyr (shaheed) has seven blessings from Allaah: he is forgiven from the moment his blood is first shed; he will be shown his place in Paradise; he will be spared the trial of the grave; and he will be secure on the Day of the Greatest Terror (the Day of Judgement); there will be placed on his head a crown of dignity, one ruby of which is better than this world and all that is in it; he will be married to seventy-two of al-hoor al-‘iyn; and he will be permitted to intercede for seventy of his relatives.”
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Hamza Asadullah
08-23-2017, 12:55 AM
If this discussion continues to descend into insults and arguments then it will be closed. Particularly because we are now in the most blessed of days so how can we waste even a second on that which will be of no benefit but instead cause more harm than good?

We talk as though we know what is really going on with regards to political matters in our respective countries or any where in the world but the truth and reality is we don't.

So let us not waste our valuable time on that which will not benefit us but cause more harm than good and waste our valuable time during these blessed days and nights.

4 things to do on the Blessed 10 Days of Dhul Hijjah
Reply

Simple_Person
08-24-2017, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
-
(OFFTOPIC)


http://ekurd.net/turkish-kurdistan-vote-war-2017-08-24

Can you now understand how Turks bring up the whole PKK debate as..."We hate PKK, but we don't hate Kurds". Now is my logical, rational and reasonable question..what HAS Barzani (PDK) to do with PKK? They hate one another as in the past they even have fought against each other. However when i hear such things from such Turks, this is rather a wake up call to me that it has NOTHING to do with PKK, but they HATE Kurds. Which automatically includes me as i am a Kurd. The Turks fight for the Turkmen in Kirkuk, however when Kurds say what about Kurds in modern day south-east Turkey to Turks..then suddenly Kurds must keep their mouth shut. Isn't this hypocrisy? Isn't this a clear sign that these people have absolutely NOTHING to do with Islam and killing such people that show such level of hypocrisy is rather permissible according Islamic view. That is why even if a Kurd fighting along side PKK dies at the hands of the Turkish soldier, to me he is rather a martyr.

I do not look at ooh that one is a "Muslim" and that one is a "non-Muslim". I see two groups. One is fighting oppression according to Islamic perspective and the other is oppressing. No need to bring out the whole ..ooh but he is a Muslim and that other guy isn't. If somebody is a Muslim, he MUST abide by Islamic rulings, there is no excuse to oppress a certain people..be it Muslim or non-Muslim.

Many people THINK that just because they say i am a Muslim, that they automatically will end up in paradise. While there are for example clear hadith that say if one has pride or arrogance the size of a mustard seed he will not enter paradise. If one even thinks about this of having arrogance/pride the size of a mustard seed ...well iblies also believes in Allah, but has arrogance and pride. We all know he will end up in hell fire and will not enter paradise whatsoever.

EDIT: ..yeah..what happened to ..ooh we hate PKK? You see these guys they say we are Muslims, but their actions show something else. Another confirmation they hate Kurds and PKK is just the excuse.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2...distan-turkey/
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