format_quote Originally Posted by
Umm♥Layth
Every single person is entitled to their requirements when they choose a spouse. There is no law or rule within Islam that forbids it and the person marrying does not have to accept certain requirements (as long as it isn't haraam), That is the beauty of courting and finding somebody that suits you! :) I require my husband to make sure he can provide certain things, period. I would not have married him otherwise and I do hold him to it. Same goes for his requirements. For some men it is the food, for others is plentiful intimacy and THAT IS FINE lol, the bride doesn't have to accept and she can move on. Nobody forces a woman to marry IN ISLAM (no speaking of backward cultures here).
This whole mentality that domestic work is somehow related to slavery or being "tied to the kitchen sink" is a bunch of feminist hogwash. Domestic work HAS to be done in order for humans to live a sanitary, civilized life! lol. A couple can choose to split it, have one person fully responsible or hire help, it is their choice to make within the marriage.
Actually, if you study history with a fine tooth comb, you can clearly see the movements have have slowly but surely destroyed the family system. I'm not going to school you on that one, but I am at peace and confident when I say what I say. When I speak of "western culture" I speak of the white supremacist colonialism which is responsible for making sure all brown people hate their skin color and women forgetting their value and role in society. I get it, Latin America is also in the west, but their native tongue isn't spanish is it? No, Latin America has been colonized and much of their culture has been wiped out. Enough said on that subject, I'm not here to discuss pedantics.
Again, you are generalizing and bringing in feminist baggage. Not trying to be rude to you are stir the pot, but this is the reality and you are not alone in your thought processes. There is NOTHING wrong with mastering domestic work, which is very feminine by its nature. I find it quite honorable and empowering when I can wipe my house spotless in less than two hours all by myself. Who says that a woman who can cook and clean doesn't have intellect to offer? I actually showed my husband how to do fine, thorough, professional cleaning and he was my client before we married.
One has to be smart about the kind of man they marry, that's all there's too it. Appreciate yourself before you look for somebody to appreciate you :) [/quote]
;D You said let's not blanket but you keep blanketing. Since when does obesity prevent one from going out to the workforce LOL!! That's too funny. I was obese most of my life and now I help women overcome obesity. It never stopped me from developing my intellect or becoming self sufficient.
Just sayin'.[/QUOTE]
Everyone has been colonized, Southern Spain was colonized by Islam, which in turn affected a lot of structure in Spain, and even though Isabel and Ferdinand tried to wipe it out of existence in Spain, it still remains and this in turn has colonized South America, etc. etc., Arabs colonized in turn parts of Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq, wiping out the Sumerian culture and Islam also spread and in turn colonized a lot of countries whose cultures were eradicated and wiped out. etc., etc., etc.,
Western "society"; in this scenario of Europe, was also influenced by Asian civilizations.
"Spanish"; arose as a language around the late 1400s, ish, through vernacularizations, for which there are still vulgar languages (and by 'vulgar', I mean local to people, not vulgar as in lack of morals); which reign in Spain, that are NOT Spanish. English is also a vernacular language that came out of germanic languages and has therefore not existed for as long as people assume it has.
So to the people of Spain, who are said to have imposed "Spanish" and as such the cultural attributes of a people made out to be a single identity, by those who fail to recognize the complicated web of influences that affected the Spanish identity. Their own identity, their language, etc., arose by means of juxtaposing themselves against other identities present in Spain that did not follow Catholicism (Jewish and Muslim identities); and one could argue etched their differences and thus their identity out of those so called "differences"; and not out of similarities.
As people of Spain who had come from a wide range of 'backgrounds' - through the movements of people in Europe in general came unto South America in an effort, yes they did interact with the people of South America and yes, they did wipe them out through various practices that were racist, xenophobic, etc., people who have no European blood still remain in South America and wage battles to retain their culture, their language and their customs. It is not as rare of an occurrence as you make it out to be, people still speak other languages besides Spanish and entertain cultures that are not touched by anyone in their own worlds and spaces. Of course I cannot speak for them, because I don't have native blood at all and one could make the argument that I am one of these horrible "colonizers"; but the sins of my ancestors are not mine at all.
Domestic work is feminine?
Let me ask you, who are the best chefs in the world? Who are the best designers in the world? Certainly, it is not women, for it is men who have the best chef titles. So are they feminine for cooking?
Please also do not presume to tell me that you will entertain your children by telling them that "domestic" work is for women and not for men. Both men and women should be doing domestic work, it is not the responsibility of the mother alone, or the sisters, while the brothers feast on food and wait to get their laundry done.
And I am done, reply or don't reply. I'm not going to bother to discuss this issue further.
If you want to be cleaning up after your husband, that's your issue. Teach your children that too, that women belong in the kitchen. *sarcasm*
But men are better chefs
and in my family, men cook :)
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format_quote Originally Posted by
Umm♥Layth
Every single person is entitled to their requirements when they choose a spouse. There is no law or rule within Islam that forbids it and the person marrying does not have to accept certain requirements (as long as it isn't haraam), That is the beauty of courting and finding somebody that suits you! :) I require my husband to make sure he can provide certain things, period. I would not have married him otherwise and I do hold him to it. Same goes for his requirements. For some men it is the food, for others is plentiful intimacy and THAT IS FINE lol, the bride doesn't have to accept and she can move on. Nobody forces a woman to marry IN ISLAM (no speaking of backward cultures here).
This whole mentality that domestic work is somehow related to slavery or being "tied to the kitchen sink" is a bunch of feminist hogwash. Domestic work HAS to be done in order for humans to live a sanitary, civilized life! lol. A couple can choose to split it, have one person fully responsible or hire help, it is their choice to make within the marriage.
Actually, if you study history with a fine tooth comb, you can clearly see the movements have have slowly but surely destroyed the family system. I'm not going to school you on that one, but I am at peace and confident when I say what I say. When I speak of "western culture" I speak of the white supremacist colonialism which is responsible for making sure all brown people hate their skin color and women forgetting their value and role in society. I get it, Latin America is also in the west, but their native tongue isn't spanish is it? No, Latin America has been colonized and much of their culture has been wiped out. Enough said on that subject, I'm not here to discuss pedantics.
Again, you are generalizing and bringing in feminist baggage. Not trying to be rude to you are stir the pot, but this is the reality and you are not alone in your thought processes. There is NOTHING wrong with mastering domestic work, which is very feminine by its nature. I find it quite honorable and empowering when I can wipe my house spotless in less than two hours all by myself. Who says that a woman who can cook and clean doesn't have intellect to offer? I actually showed my husband how to do fine, thorough, professional cleaning and he was my client before we married.
One has to be smart about the kind of man they marry, that's all there's too it. Appreciate yourself before you look for somebody to appreciate you :) [/quote]
;D You said let's not blanket but you keep blanketing. Since when does obesity prevent one from going out to the workforce LOL!! That's too funny. I was obese most of my life and now I help women overcome obesity. It never stopped me from developing my intellect or becoming self sufficient.
Just sayin'.[/QUOTE]
Everyone has been colonized, Southern Spain was colonized by Islam, which in turn affected a lot of structure in Spain, and even though Isabel and Ferdinand tried to wipe it out of existence in Spain, it still remains and this in turn has colonized South America, etc. etc., Arabs colonized in turn parts of Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq, wiping out the Sumerian culture and Islam also spread and in turn colonized a lot of countries whose cultures were eradicated and wiped out. etc., etc., etc.,
Western "society"; in this scenario of Europe, was also influenced by Asian civilizations.
"Spanish"; arose as a language around the late 1400s, ish, through vernacularizations, for which there are still vulgar languages (and by 'vulgar', I mean local to people, not vulgar as in lack of morals); which reign in Spain, that are NOT Spanish. English is also a vernacular language that came out of germanic languages and has therefore not existed for as long as people assume it has.
So to the people of Spain, who are said to have imposed "Spanish" and as such the cultural attributes of a people made out to be a single identity, by those who fail to recognize the complicated web of influences that affected the Spanish identity. Their own identity, their language, etc., arose by means of juxtaposing themselves against other identities present in Spain that did not follow Catholicism (Jewish and Muslim identities); and one could argue etched their differences and thus their identity out of those so called "differences"; and not out of similarities.
As people of Spain who had come from a wide range of 'backgrounds' - through the movements of people in Europe in general came unto South America in an effort, yes they did interact with the people of South America and yes, they did wipe them out through various practices that were racist, xenophobic, etc., people who have no European blood still remain in South America and wage battles to retain their culture, their language and their customs. It is not as rare of an occurrence as you make it out to be, people still speak other languages besides Spanish and entertain cultures that are not touched by anyone in their own worlds and spaces. Of course I cannot speak for them, because I don't have native blood at all and one could make the argument that I am one of these horrible "colonizers"; but the sins of my ancestors are not mine at all.
Domestic work is feminine?
Let me ask you, who are the best chefs in the world? Who are the best designers in the world? Certainly, it is not women, for it is men who have the best chef titles. So are they feminine for cooking?
Please also do not presume to tell me that you will entertain your children by telling them that "domestic" work is for women and not for men. Both men and women should be doing domestic work, it is not the responsibility of the mother alone, or the sisters, while the brothers feast on food and wait to get their laundry done.
And I am done, reply or don't reply. I'm not going to bother to discuss this issue further.
If you want to be cleaning up after your husband, that's your issue. Teach your children that too, that women belong in the kitchen. *sarcasm*
But men are better chefs
and in my family, men cook :)
- - - Updated - - -
format_quote Originally Posted by
STN
It will be very hard for you to understand the eastern culture if you are raised in west.
I can't imagine sending my parents to old houses even if it's the best in the whole country. It's the norm in west.
I can't imagine my wife to have to talk to strangers especially people who are sexually skilled and know seduction and try to seduce my wife. It's pretty normal in west and Ghayrah isn't something they are known for. I know how good i am at seducing girls(May Allah forgive my sins) and they think nice of me, i certainly am not alone who knows seduction especially living in west where you're a weirdo if you haven't had sex by age 16 and 18 .
I expect my wife to help my mother, what else does she have to do anyway if the man earns and brings home all the money. Whereas in west, the feminist will eat you and think housewives are some lesser creatures who are degrading themselves. But these feminist will not even look for a second at a man who is feminized and will want the same man they so criticize.
If you want to degrade your wife cooking and "making home" to being a maid then isn't your mother a maid too ? She cooks for you all your life and does everything for you even when you grow up...she is the biggest maid.
Again, it's a culture thing. What you find so sick and disgusting is normal here and what we find sick and disgusting in west is normal there. It has nothing to do with religion.
Who said people are sent to old houses?
You guys assume that everyone in Western culture is perverted, senile and treats their parents horribly.
My mother doesn't cook. My mother doesn't clean. She comes from a different upbringing and she tells us in our face that she's not our maid and she's right, she's NOT our maid for her to be cleaning up after us. We're not pigs, why would our mother need to be cleaning up after us too? Everyone has a hand and has a brain to be doing their own cleaning up and as for cooking, people can split up the cooking the entire week if they don't have a cook and clean up after themselves if they don't have a maid.
The idea that you have about western culture and people in Western culture is seriously derainged, where the heck did you get that idea? Hollywood films? television? Media? the same kind of media that assumes Muslims with a beard and women with a hijab are terrorists? Get off watching television and actually get to know people, understand how they think and get out of that little shell that makes you assume the worst of a culture.
The same way you criticize westerners for looking at Muslims (as terrorists, enslavers, pedophiles etc.) is the same problem you have at looking at Westerners.
None of my friends have had their families sent to a "home for the elderly"; and none of my family has ever sent their mother / father to a home for the elderly. Our parents are active, mentally, physically, emotionally and my own great grandmother (a woman who died at 94 in perfect health) was cleaning herself and going to the bathroom alone. My grandmother who is 75 is in great health. Our parents live a long life because we don't subject them to cleaning up after us, to destroying their health. That work is either divided, or given in division across many maids who are grateful to have jobs in a bad economy with good benefits. Our parents live in our homes under our care and the maids offer assistance to doing things that would take time away from spending with our families.
I would rather spend my time teaching my children how to read, write, swim, etc. then be tired and weary from having cleaned all day. I would rather spend my time teaching my children how to be good helpers (BOTH MEN AND WOMEN) in putting their things away, how to behave, how to eat properly, gardening, etc. etc., then be stuck next to a hot oven, or cleaning the kitchen ALL DAY (because the kitchen is the worst place ever) and my children sitting in front of the television.
PRIORITIES.
And i'm done with that.