PDA

View Full Version : Sir, may we(Muslims who are resident of India) love India ?



MazharShafiq
08-16-2017, 07:37 AM
Sir, may we(Muslims who are resident of India) love India ?
this question is asked by a friend who is living in India which is governed by Hindu
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
M.I.A.
08-16-2017, 12:32 PM
...does he also love pakistan? o_0

The worlds a strange place.. the country may be run by non muslims, but the cities.. neighbourhoods..businesses..economy are all dependant on the people.

Its a very small world for most of us.

Allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.

I suppose if he hated it things would be much harder.
Reply

Simple_Person
08-16-2017, 02:12 PM
Do not love that which is man-made (ie nationalism). In this case loving India as the country India (a big no). You can love being for example from a certain tribe, as tribes have existed and keep on existing even if a country would fall. However a country A LOT of work is spend on it to keep it existing, by igniting nationalism/love for the country. A simple example is like a garbage bin throwing all kind of stuff in it and keeping it united, while it can be called garbage what is in the garbage bin, however when it is separated it is clearly vegetable peels, plastics, paper etc...
Reply

M.I.A.
08-16-2017, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Do not love that which is man-made (ie nationalism). In this case loving India as the country India (a big no). You can love being for example from a certain tribe, as tribes have existed and keep on existing even if a country would fall. However a country A LOT of work is spend on it to keep it existing, by igniting nationalism/love for the country. A simple example is like a garbage bin throwing all kind of stuff in it and keeping it united, while it can be called garbage what is in the garbage bin, however when it is separated it is clearly vegetable peels, plastics, paper etc...
I like this idea of man made seperation.. inspired.

It really shows in the disputed territory of kashmir.

..you couldnt make it up, honestly.

Mankind is always the same i suppose..

At what point do you draw the line between personal survival and national survival?

If such a thing is possible.

Nationalism is just a survival mechanism..

Although seeing the tribe move through is often a perplexing moment..

It is a small world.

Unless you can replace nationalism with something more structurally sound and less open to abuse.. no point thinking about it.

..not the one that makes the moves unfortunately. ( i feel it patronising if it says good move OR bad move..either way )

Allah swt is the planner.

I had to google the difference between nationalism and patriotism..

Although it doesnt really make things any easier.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Simple_Person
08-16-2017, 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
I like this idea of man made seperation.. inspired.

It really shows in the disputed territory of kashmir.

..you couldnt make it up, honestly.

Mankind is always the same i suppose..

At what point do you draw the line between personal survival and national survival?

If such a thing is possible.

Nationalism is just a survival mechanism..

Although seeing the tribe move through is often a perplexing moment..

It is a small world.

Unless you can replace nationalism with something more structurally sound and less open to abuse.. no point thinking about it.

..not the one that makes the moves unfortunately. ( i feel it patronising if it says good move OR bad move..either way )

Allah swt is the planner.

I had to google the difference between nationalism and patriotism..

Although it doesnt really make things any easier.
Nationalism and patriotism is the same if you ask me. It is both doing for your COUNTRY. Also NO there is NOTHING that can replace nationalism EXCEPT religion based on Islamic perspective, because nationalism is based on lies and deceit. No matter what kind of perspective you try to look from, the ONLY thing that not only SOUNDS good, but is rock solid is having the mindset to live for Allah in other words unified based on religion. Because not only does that make hatred among rich and poor disappear, but also between black and white, fat and skinny, men and women..it wipes everything to the core and makes people equal based on the thing that cannot be seen whatsoever (piety). Money that is spend is spend in such a way for the better of mankind, no matter what kind of ethnicity. It is something so solid that makes one so quit and only think about going in sujood for something so awesome and wise sub'han'Allah.

Christianity will not work or Hinduism or Judaism or whatever other religion. Islam has talked about EVERY SINGLE aspect of life which makes it complete and rock solid. What is not talked about or unclear are such small things that does not divide rather keeps even the flame of curiosity in the religion.
Reply

M.I.A.
08-16-2017, 10:54 PM
Yeah i dont know how to answer that.

Im not sure i believe in equality as you describe it.

The only thing that keeps me in check is fear of allah swt.

..
..which makes it hard to account for other peoples behaviour.


Maybe not equality..

But guidance and misguidance.



...and i cant tell the difference for the most part.


Loosely paraphrased..

Are those with knowledge the same as those without?

..i dont know?

..define knowledge.
Reply

Simple_Person
08-17-2017, 07:52 AM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
Yeah i dont know how to answer that.

Im not sure i believe in equality as you describe it.

The only thing that keeps me in check is fear of allah swt.

..
..which makes it hard to account for other peoples behaviour.


Maybe not equality..

But guidance and misguidance.



...and i cant tell the difference for the most part.


Loosely paraphrased..

Are those with knowledge the same as those without?

..i dont know?

..define knowledge.
Somebody being with or without knowledge does not matter, the ones that do possess the knowledge through the filter of Allah the one with less knowledge no damage is done to them and their right is given in full. The nationalism is based on corruption.

To give you an example. Poor people in the western country that i live in, have rights on MANY MANY MANY benefits to help them and support them their living. Although the country itself has every bit of information about their living condition, those people just have to call and ask about those benefits, however when one is NOT aware of those benefits, they live a hard life as poor people in a rich country. This is when the knowledgeable prey on the people without knowledge. In Islam we know that what we do not know, we go to the scholars, however if we even do not know something our rights are still given by the people who do know. So if this is what you mean by the knowledgeable and the ones without knowledge.

Or in the current perspective of nationalism, people who are not aware of nationalism rather might be bad/forbidden, the people in power are not only preventing them to know but also actively promote this filthy idea which rather divides people instead of unites people if you ask me. Because what brings us together so to say is love for a piece of land which logically comes down to..as you used the Kashmir example. However love for EVERYTHING that is tangible is BOUND to lose it's power. Whatever is NOT tangible, is not bound to the materialistic world. Islam makes this sub'han'Allah so beautiful firm that makes one just speechless. If a country might be invaded so to say and the people even might forget it belonged to their forefathers once in the history (thus belongs to them), what unites is still the untangle thing of the unseen that cannot be taken from you.

Just pick up some Muslims and put them on the North pole so to say. You will see they WILL create civilization on a desert land as North pole with rulings, houses of worship, construction of a community, law etc. Nationalism is based on large group of people to make something realistic on certain piece of LAND that they have made it theirs, while even 10 Muslims can create a united community based on things that cannot be taken away even if they would flee that piece of land.

Islam is like water, you cut off small piece of water from the big mass of water, you create a little pool. To "extinguish" that water, dirt is thrown on it, which still does not extinguish, rather it creates mud. In other words tainted ..this is exactly what you see now a days (culture-Islam, nationalism-Islam). As western powers have tried to extinguish Islam from the hearts of people by throwing mud on top (nationalism) and sheytan also throwing mud on top (culture). When more CLEAR water comes on top of it, this new water clears the mud more, but it is still tainted, although it has become much better than mud itself. When Islamic guidance itself comes to people (culture-Muslims, nationalism-Muslims) they themselves become a very small pool by themselves (strangers in society). The "guidance" of nationalism MUST be thought by people (parents, people, community etc.), Islamic guidance however is NOT thought by the people, rather given by Allah, which doesn't require any place you have to be or be with certain people. Look at Ibrahim(as), surrounded by statue worshipers, but guidance came from the unseen.

You can see the guidance VERY clearly when looking at elderly people in villages in the past who couldn't read nor write. They yet were very wise and intelligent people (guidance coming from the unseen).

I also sub'han'Allah noticed this with the Jews that immigrated to Israel. The Jews (although majority of them atheist now), said that the government of Israel was planning to unite the Jews under 1 mentality and 1 culture (Jewish culture/zionism), however many were laughing about it saying it didn't really work at all. This reminded me of this aya..SUB'HAN'ALLAH..

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:13

I mean sub'han'Allah they were the EXCELLENT example. Many still spoke a bit of their own original language, ate the food of their culture they came from, still practices some kind of cultural habits like clothing etc., didn't look anything a like. With Kurdish Jews i could CLEARLY see they were Kurds by ethnicity, while the European Jews i could also see they were from a western ethnicity.

Anyways, no matter how you look at things, Islam cannot be extinguish by invading or taking away land. An idea can be extinguished if the right people are killed, but how can you kill Allah when He is the one giving the idea to His servants? It is a battle that cannot be won and it is a battle that by definition (Allah - with no beginning and no end) is already decided. How many people that associated themselves with certain empire (also nationalism) still exist? Many of the countries of today are NOT older than couple hundreds of years old.

Christianity has been tainted to such a degree that it has been disarmed although small pockets still exist that still follow 1 God not trinity, Judaism the same as Zionism has rather broken Judaism and also with this very small pockets still exist that live according to Judaism. Which Islam with primary lines of guidance still is steadfast, with all their data gathering to know who is a Muslim and who isn't, the people even working for such agencies can be guided by Allah and thus work against them. With Islam however what I have observed Allah is replacing many Muslims with new Muslims.

"Here you are - those invited to spend in the cause of Allah - but among you are those who withhold [out of greed]. And whoever withholds only withholds [benefit] from himself; and Allah is the Free of need, while you are the needy. And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you." Qur'an 47:38

No worries if we look at it from this perspective as long as we try to keep us on the right path. Culture Muslims and nationalism Muslims either become guided or they leave Islam all together.

Sub'han'Allah walhamdulillah wala ilaha ill Allah wallahu akbar
Reply

Shahi
08-17-2017, 12:32 PM
Brother,
When our muhammad rasoolullah(saw) had to leave the makka and ,Allah ordered him to do hijra to madeena. Rasoolullah(saw) felt sad about leaving the makka. And there is a hadees on loving country "it is a part of faith"(no strong ravi list I thing.)
Reply

sister herb
08-17-2017, 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by MazharShafiq
Sir, may we(Muslims who are resident of India) love India ?
this question is asked by a friend who is living in India which is governed by Hindu
In India majority of population are Hindus (about 80%). I don´t see it´s very strange if it´s also governed by Hindu.
Reply

M.I.A.
08-17-2017, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Somebody being with or without knowledge does not matter, the ones that do possess the knowledge through the filter of Allah the one with less knowledge no damage is done to them and their right is given in full. The nationalism is based on corruption.

To give you an example. Poor people in the western country that i live in, have rights on MANY MANY MANY benefits to help them and support them their living. Although the country itself has every bit of information about their living condition, those people just have to call and ask about those benefits, however when one is NOT aware of those benefits, they live a hard life as poor people in a rich country. This is when the knowledgeable prey on the people without knowledge. In Islam we know that what we do not know, we go to the scholars, however if we even do not know something our rights are still given by the people who do know. So if this is what you mean by the knowledgeable and the ones without knowledge.

Or in the current perspective of nationalism, people who are not aware of nationalism rather might be bad/forbidden, the people in power are not only preventing them to know but also actively promote this filthy idea which rather divides people instead of unites people if you ask me. Because what brings us together so to say is love for a piece of land which logically comes down to..as you used the Kashmir example. However love for EVERYTHING that is tangible is BOUND to lose it's power. Whatever is NOT tangible, is not bound to the materialistic world. Islam makes this sub'han'Allah so beautiful firm that makes one just speechless. If a country might be invaded so to say and the people even might forget it belonged to their forefathers once in the history (thus belongs to them), what unites is still the untangle thing of the unseen that cannot be taken from you.

Just pick up some Muslims and put them on the North pole so to say. You will see they WILL create civilization on a desert land as North pole with rulings, houses of worship, construction of a community, law etc. Nationalism is based on large group of people to make something realistic on certain piece of LAND that they have made it theirs, while even 10 Muslims can create a united community based on things that cannot be taken away even if they would flee that piece of land.

Islam is like water, you cut off small piece of water from the big mass of water, you create a little pool. To "extinguish" that water, dirt is thrown on it, which still does not extinguish, rather it creates mud. In other words tainted ..this is exactly what you see now a days (culture-Islam, nationalism-Islam). As western powers have tried to extinguish Islam from the hearts of people by throwing mud on top (nationalism) and sheytan also throwing mud on top (culture). When more CLEAR water comes on top of it, this new water clears the mud more, but it is still tainted, although it has become much better than mud itself. When Islamic guidance itself comes to people (culture-Muslims, nationalism-Muslims) they themselves become a very small pool by themselves (strangers in society). The "guidance" of nationalism MUST be thought by people (parents, people, community etc.), Islamic guidance however is NOT thought by the people, rather given by Allah, which doesn't require any place you have to be or be with certain people. Look at Ibrahim(as), surrounded by statue worshipers, but guidance came from the unseen.

You can see the guidance VERY clearly when looking at elderly people in villages in the past who couldn't read nor write. They yet were very wise and intelligent people (guidance coming from the unseen).

I also sub'han'Allah noticed this with the Jews that immigrated to Israel. The Jews (although majority of them atheist now), said that the government of Israel was planning to unite the Jews under 1 mentality and 1 culture (Jewish culture/zionism), however many were laughing about it saying it didn't really work at all. This reminded me of this aya..SUB'HAN'ALLAH..

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:13

I mean sub'han'Allah they were the EXCELLENT example. Many still spoke a bit of their own original language, ate the food of their culture they came from, still practices some kind of cultural habits like clothing etc., didn't look anything a like. With Kurdish Jews i could CLEARLY see they were Kurds by ethnicity, while the European Jews i could also see they were from a western ethnicity.

Anyways, no matter how you look at things, Islam cannot be extinguish by invading or taking away land. An idea can be extinguished if the right people are killed, but how can you kill Allah when He is the one giving the idea to His servants? It is a battle that cannot be won and it is a battle that by definition (Allah - with no beginning and no end) is already decided. How many people that associated themselves with certain empire (also nationalism) still exist? Many of the countries of today are NOT older than couple hundreds of years old.

Christianity has been tainted to such a degree that it has been disarmed although small pockets still exist that still follow 1 God not trinity, Judaism the same as Zionism has rather broken Judaism and also with this very small pockets still exist that live according to Judaism. Which Islam with primary lines of guidance still is steadfast, with all their data gathering to know who is a Muslim and who isn't, the people even working for such agencies can be guided by Allah and thus work against them. With Islam however what I have observed Allah is replacing many Muslims with new Muslims.

"Here you are - those invited to spend in the cause of Allah - but among you are those who withhold [out of greed]. And whoever withholds only withholds [benefit] from himself; and Allah is the Free of need, while you are the needy. And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you." Qur'an 47:38

No worries if we look at it from this perspective as long as we try to keep us on the right path. Culture Muslims and nationalism Muslims either become guided or they leave Islam all together.

Sub'han'Allah walhamdulillah wala ilaha ill Allah wallahu akbar
Comprehensive post.
Reply

Shahi
08-17-2017, 04:26 PM
According to the political myths(materialistic) governments are created to create the equality and good governance for people.

Nationalism makes a unique interest about country and is all about a country governed on the way of the constitution with the loyalty created by some brains.That can be applied to the written or unwritten constitutions.

Nationalism may influence in our life directly by political,economic or by other ways. But when it comes to the citizenship ,we should own an identity,birth certificate even to perform hajj passport is essential and a place to live in the country and must pay tax for the house we live in. So those are the documents ,we cannot avoid to live in a country.

When practically apply islam in our life,nationalism tells us to take such documents to conform us as citizens and islam tells us to obey the country rules when we live in a country,majority are non muslims.

Taking documents is not a big thing but ladies we have to attach our photoes on every document. Even to perform hajj so this is the world law!!

This is also a way of following nationalism by muslims too. But same time we cannot avoid it due to other inner and outer laws of the country. So we have no rights to reject to respect the country law.

But when it comes to the nationalism on the motherland other than goverment or the parties. It should be differnt from the topic. Motherland is a place a person born and /live but the nation is another term according to the political science. I can say it as the The hindu nation. But cannot include muslims on it ,yes they do !we can see daliths in India how they are tortured. It is because they think India is a hindu nation.

So,according to the term "nation" they will not accept muslims in their nation. But the problem is, a muslim is not included in the "hindu nation" but his motherland is also India.

Here something burning
Reply

Simple_Person
08-17-2017, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Shahi
According to the political myths(materialistic) governments are created to create the equality and good governance for people.

Nationalism makes a unique interest about country and is all about a country governed on the way of the constitution with the loyalty created by some brains.That can be applied to the written or unwritten constitutions.

Nationalism may influence in our life directly by political,economic or by other ways. But when it comes to the citizenship ,we should own an identity,birth certificate even to perform hajj passport is essential and a place to live in the country and must pay tax for the house we live in. So those are the documents ,we cannot avoid to live in a country.
Identity we already have. It is according to our ethnicity as tribe so to say. A Syrian is a Arab, Kurd etc., A Iraqi is a Arab, Kurd etc, A Saudi is a Arab, A Turk is a REAL ottoman, Kurd, Tartar, etc.. Even in the west, people can look up their ancestry and know who they really are, however people have been brainwashed to be branded a person from certain country.

Let me give you a VERY clear example to this. Let's say, Syria falls, it is called "happy-land" from now on. However you let's say are already 60 years old and born in the now a days country called Syria. Well who are you? Country named Syria has stopped existing. Have you suddenly lost your identity? So you see, you are suddenly stopped at a dilemma. In the Qur'an Allah says made you in "people and tribes" which means you are born as X and you will stay like that until you die. A tribe cannot be stopped. If the tribe no longer would even exist, you are still from that tribe. This you have with those old people that were born in the Ottoman empire(before it fell after WW1) and now suddenly are "Turks" O_o!!??

Kurds for example in history you will see are a mix of all kind of people. If you further dig you will end up in ancient Mesopotamia. Kurds even 200-300 years back, were a lot of tribes but spoke the same language but different dialects(which even today one will notice). The word "Kurdistan" is nothing more than "the place were the Kurds are". So if the country Kurdistan is not acknowledged by UN as a independent state, it is still Kurdistan. It is NOT bound by certain human invented rules such as nationalism. I am anti-nationalism, but Kurdistan is Kurdistan just like i said..the place were the Kurds are.

The place that you live has certain laws and those laws as Muslims we MUST abide unless it goes against our deen(which mostly it does not). We are not forced to buy a house, we are not forced to worship statues, we are not forced to drink alcohol or be exact same copies of the people that are living there. We simply live according to Islamic standards within the scope of the law of that land. If that comes with things like MUST have a passport, so be it.
Reply

azc
08-18-2017, 05:09 AM
Originally Posted by MazharShafiq
Sir, may we(Muslims who are resident of India) love India ? this question is asked by a friend who is living in India which is governed by Hindu
It's natural to love your birth place
Reply

Shahi
08-18-2017, 05:13 AM
@Simple_Person yes I agree with you.
That identity mentioned here is called as "Nation ". According to your example I can tell it as "Qurdish Nationalism/Qurdish Nation" . Nation means Ummah in political language.

Here I like to start discussion on "Islamic Nationality/Islamic Nation." (This is not about the terrorists of ISIS or will not be directly or indirectly connected with ISIS of baghdadi)

Meaning of Islamic nation is; on this point the constitution is "Alquran" and the description of the constitution is "Sunnah" and the Governer is Allah. Here according to the term nationalism making loyalty and love on qhilafa is the culture according to the nationalism.

But more than the term the Islam teach us about the governance or politics. From the story of prophet yousuf(a) we learn equality and the position for the correct person should be given. But Islam is not engaging with liberalism; If you ask how? Islam teach us to give freedom for slaves and spiritually guide us on it. So it is the first step to the democracy.

When we come to the democracy, Islam introduce us about "Imarah" it is also about social responsibility. ZAKAT is the first step Islam introduce tax among muslims. So this is the Islamic governance and ,even in the Islamic governance nationalism differs. Why , thimmis are not a part of nation according to the constitution. Because,thimmis even they pay tax and live under muslim national territory are not living according to the Quran the constitution.

So ,here we see a confusion on our theory. The man made theory. But the law of Allah great to discuss here on nationalism.
Reply

Simple_Person
08-18-2017, 08:53 AM
Originally Posted by Shahi
@Simple_Person yes I agree with you.
That identity mentioned here is called as "Nation ". According to your example I can tell it as "Qurdish Nationalism/Qurdish Nation" . Nation means Ummah in political language.

Here I like to start discussion on "Islamic Nationality/Islamic Nation." (This is not about the terrorists of ISIS or will not be directly or indirectly connected with ISIS of baghdadi)

Meaning of Islamic nation is; on this point the constitution is "Alquran" and the description of the constitution is "Sunnah" and the Governer is Allah. Here according to the term nationalism making loyalty and love on qhilafa is the culture according to the nationalism.

But more than the term the Islam teach us about the governance or politics. From the story of prophet yousuf(a) we learn equality and the position for the correct person should be given. But Islam is not engaging with liberalism; If you ask how? Islam teach us to give freedom for slaves and spiritually guide us on it. So it is the first step to the democracy.

When we come to the democracy, Islam introduce us about "Imarah" it is also about social responsibility. ZAKAT is the first step Islam introduce tax among muslims. So this is the Islamic governance and ,even in the Islamic governance nationalism differs. Why , thimmis are not a part of nation according to the constitution. Because,thimmis even they pay tax and live under muslim national territory are not living according to the Quran the constitution.

So ,here we see a confusion on our theory. The man made theory. But the law of Allah great to discuss here on nationalism.
Sister, SOME words do NOT have a equal in other languages if you ask me.

If you search for the definition of "nation" some dictionaries say people with same common interest that live in a state or one area, while another definition says MIGHT not live in a state or one area. This for example is a GOOD example to see how poor English language is compared to for example Arabic and other much richer and older languages when talked about common things. English languages because it is fairly new it is mostly used for scientific discoveries (ie computers etc.). That is why sometimes better stick to certain Arabic as nobody would disagree with "Ummah", but also is NOT associated whatsoever with nationalism. As that is something completely different and the input for getting it going is rather also different. A Muslim can today say i have become Christian, does it mean he no longer is part of the Islamic Ummah? Well according to Islamic sources indeed he is no longer part of the Islamic Ummah, while present day definition of nation well he has to leave that particular area to no longer be part of that nation or else he will have to give up his nationality but according to UN rulings a individual MUST have a identity of a man-made country. They say one cannot be without one. The coming years we will see more and more hypocrisy and how unfair and illogical UN and their rulings are. Everything that is man-made and not even least inspired through Allah's rulings, is bound to lose/end up in chaos.

So it is much deeper and better stick to Ummah :).

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by azc
It's natural to love your birth place
Birth place? I agree. As even within Islam if one defends his land and ends up dying defending it they are martyrs. But that doesn't mean giving it a specific name when such a name has nothing to do with it and rulings off course.

As an example, As-sham is large piece of land, if one says i am a Arab living in as-sham nobody is arguing against it as this is what was being called even back then, however when A FEW people decide to divide it and call each place a different name, that is when the oppression and man-made things come in to action. Which is exactly what has happens after the French and English divided the territory (with Sykes–Picot Agreement for example) without the consent of the people.

People are fighting now for a place that is based on CERTAIN borders that are man-made. If one would say defending as-sham is large piece of land that isn't really to every little detail clear what the borders are, while man-made borders are clear to every inch.

As this is also a good example..when rulers are being used to draw things..;D. Yet people are so blind and never question while even just a SMALL critical mind will indeed say since when do things just be exactly like that?
Reply

Shahi
08-18-2017, 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Sister, SOME words do NOT have a equal in other languages if you ask me.

If you search for the definition of "nation" some dictionaries say people with same common interest that live in a state or one area, while another definition says MIGHT not live in a state or one area. This for example is a GOOD example to see how poor English language is compared to for example Arabic and other much richer and older languages when talked about common things. English languages because it is fairly new it is mostly used for scientific discoveries (ie computers etc.). That is why sometimes better stick to certain Arabic as nobody would disagree with "Ummah", but also is NOT associated whatsoever with nationalism. As that is something completely different and the input for getting it going is rather also different. A Muslim can today say i have become Christian, does it mean he no longer is part of the Islamic Ummah? Well according to Islamic sources indeed he is no longer part of the Islamic Ummah, while present day definition of nation well he has to leave that particular area to no longer be part of that nation or else he will have to give up his nationality but according to UN rulings a individual MUST have a identity of a man-made country. They say one cannot be without one. The coming years we will see more and more hypocrisy and how unfair and illogical UN and their rulings are. Everything that is man-made and not even least inspired through Allah's rulings, is bound to lose/end up in chaos.

So it is much deeper and better stick to Ummah :).

- - - Updated - - -



Birth place? I agree. As even within Islam if one defends his land and ends up dying defending it they are martyrs. But that doesn't mean giving it a specific name when such a name has nothing to do with it and rulings off course.

As an example, As-sham is large piece of land, if one says i am a Arab living in as-sham nobody is arguing against it as this is what was being called even back then, however when A FEW people decide to divide it and call each place a different name, that is when the oppression and man-made things come in to action. Which is exactly what has happens after the French and English divided the territory (with Sykes–Picot Agreement for example) without the consent of the people.

People are fighting now for a place that is based on CERTAIN borders that are man-made. If one would say defending as-sham is large piece of land that isn't really to every little detail clear what the borders are, while man-made borders are clear to every inch.

As this is also a good example..when rulers are being used to draw things..;D. Yet people are so blind and never question while even just a SMALL critical mind will indeed say since when do things just be exactly like that?
I think brother @Simple_Person forgot to mention how the "palestine" became Isreal by their alms and secret papers.Even on google map I always
Reply

Simple_Person
08-18-2017, 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by Shahi
I think brother @Simple_Person forgot to mention how the "palestine" became Isreal by their alms and secret papers.Even on google map I always
Also with Palestine, it is as-sham. There is NO Palestine as well as NO Israel. If it was up to me i would not even want to use those names, however for the sake of miscommunication i use them, but also often say the original names of the places.

I know the story as the promise was not met with the Arabs for their help against the Ottomans. Stab in the back as the Zionists back then deceived the Arabs through the British.
Reply

azc
08-19-2017, 07:36 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Sister, SOME words do NOT have a equal in other languages if you ask me. If you search for the definition of "nation" some dictionaries say people with same common interest that live in a state or one area, while another definition says MIGHT not live in a state or one area. This for example is a GOOD example to see how poor English language is compared to for example Arabic and other much richer and older languages when talked about common things. English languages because it is fairly new it is mostly used for scientific discoveries (ie computers etc.). That is why sometimes better stick to certain Arabic as nobody would disagree with "Ummah", but also is NOT associated whatsoever with nationalism. As that is something completely different and the input for getting it going is rather also different. A Muslim can today say i have become Christian, does it mean he no longer is part of the Islamic Ummah? Well according to Islamic sources indeed he is no longer part of the Islamic Ummah, while present day definition of nation well he has to leave that particular area to no longer be part of that nation or else he will have to give up his nationality but according to UN rulings a individual MUST have a identity of a man-made country. They say one cannot be without one. The coming years we will see more and more hypocrisy and how unfair and illogical UN and their rulings are. Everything that is man-made and not even least inspired through Allah's rulings, is bound to lose/end up in chaos.So it is much deeper and better stick to Ummah :).- - - Updated - - -Birth place? I agree. As even within Islam if one defends his land and ends up dying defending it they are martyrs. But that doesn't mean giving it a specific name when such a name has nothing to do with it and rulings off course. As an example, As-sham is large piece of land, if one says i am a Arab living in as-sham nobody is arguing against it as this is what was being called even back then, however when A FEW people decide to divide it and call each place a different name, that is when the oppression and man-made things come in to action. Which is exactly what has happens after the French and English divided the territory (with Sykes–Picot Agreement for example) without the consent of the people. People are fighting now for a place that is based on CERTAIN borders that are man-made. If one would say defending as-sham is large piece of land that isn't really to every little detail clear what the borders are, while man-made borders are clear to every inch.As this is also a good example..when rulers are being used to draw things..;D. Yet people are so blind and never question while even just a SMALL critical mind will indeed say since when do things just be exactly like that?
ExpandBirth place? I agree. Aseven within Islam if one defends his land and ends up dying defending it they are martyrs.
and none can sacrifice his life for his country until he deeply loves it.... So if any Indian Muslim sacrifices his life for India he will be considered as a martyr..... Right?
Reply

Simple_Person
08-19-2017, 08:49 AM
Originally Posted by azc
and none can sacrifice his life for his country until he deeply loves it.... So if any Indian Muslim sacrifices his life for India he will be considered as a martyr..... Right?
Think about it back then as Muslim LANDS. If there was any invasion by others, you defending it and dying defending it, is becoming a martyr (this for example i am of opinion about Turkey for example being the aggressor in Kurdish lands). However these days if in the western country that i am living a country is invaded WITHOUT a valid reason, i will even defend it as a Muslim. But as we know of NATO it is rather the aggressor and this country that i am living in is also part of NATO. If there is a war, i will NOT fight on the side of the army, rather abstain that is why for me it is VERY important to be able to THINK for myself and not be a sheep that is herded by a propaganda. As they seek war with another country and want YOU to die for those corrupt politicians.

So if we talk about India as land and there is a war that starts with another country and in EVERY case there is the one who is at fault and the one who is defending and not being at fault. If India is at fault you should NOT join the army, because what you are doing is rather fighting on the side of the aggressor.

What YOU TRY to do is make nationalism/loving your country and this defending of land be the same. The line is very clear for people who think, while one who is rather shallow-thinker will see everything being the same.

Btw, i also forgot to mention if certain people (not the country you are living in) are being invaded (as we know for example of the Muslims), they also should be defended even if the corrupt politicians don't want you to fight for them which by rules of nationalism one is rather prohibited to do so. If the promised one (start with M) would for example arrive, would you choose for the country that you live in or would you join him? Islam or nationalism, as when he arrives that choice MUST be made. Things are much "complicated", while reality if you ponder and reflect more you will see they are not complicated whatsoever. Everything is very clear.
Reply

Shahi
08-19-2017, 12:15 PM
Martyrdom is a rank promised by Allah. No politician or country promise to give us a paradise for our life. And even if we fight and leave this world they will write our name on a medal but we will stay in qabr.
But we fight for the sake of Allah ;Allah will take our life to the sky and will keep us with shuhadas.
Allah mention about them that ,Roohs flying as birds upon the tree to have their meal.
So,Can you imagine the level of a shuhadha? They will not stay bardhaqh and will live in paradise till the day of judjment and after that also jannath
Reply

azc
08-19-2017, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Think about it back then as Muslim LANDS. If there was any invasion by others, you defending it and dying defending it, is becoming a martyr (this for example i am of opinion about Turkey for example being the aggressor in Kurdish lands). However these days if in the western country that i am living a country is invaded WITHOUT a valid reason, i will even defend it as a Muslim. But as we know of NATO it is rather the aggressor and this country that i am living in is also part of NATO. If there is a war, i will NOT fight on the side of the army, rather abstain that is why for me it is VERY important to be able to THINK for myself and not be a sheep that is herded by a propaganda. As they seek war with another country and want YOU to die for those corrupt politicians. So if we talk about India as land and there is a war that starts with another country and in EVERY case there is the one who is at fault and the one who is defending and not being at fault. If India is at fault you should NOT join the army, because what you are doing is rather fighting on the side of the aggressor.What YOU TRY to do is make nationalism/loving your country and this defending of land be the same. The line is very clear for people who think, while one who is rather shallow-thinker will see everything being the same.Btw, i also forgot to mention if certain people (not the country you are living in) are being invaded (as we know for example of the Muslims), they also should be defended even if the corrupt politicians don't want you to fight for them which by rules of nationalism one is rather prohibited to do so. If the promised one (start with M) would for example arrive, would you choose for the country that you live in or would you join him? Islam or nationalism, as when he arrives that choice MUST be made. Things are much "complicated", while reality if you ponder and reflect more you will see they are not complicated whatsoever. Everything is very clear.
Your views are impracticable. If a Muslim is a soldier, he will have to follow the order of his commander without even pondering over this matter whether his country is oppressor or oppressed.... I think Muslims who live in non Muslim lands must prefer to join force whether it's military or para military force or police. If you feel the pulse of the world, can understand why I assert this.
Reply

Simple_Person
08-19-2017, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Your views are impracticable. If a Muslim is a soldier, he will have to follow the order of his commander without even pondering over this matter whether his country is oppressor or oppressed.... I think Muslims who live in non Muslim lands must prefer to join force whether it's military or para military force or police. If you feel the pulse of the world, can understand why I assert this.
This i strongly disagree with you. In case of a western country for example, one does NOT join the army. One ONLY does join the army if what i said before when defending the country if a force is trying to invade and they are the aggressors. That is the moment one joins the army to defend the country. When as a soldier you still ABIDE by the rulings of war according to Islam NOT according to the Geneva Conventions (Islamic rulings such as: if a soldier gives up, you abstain from killing him, one does not harm children, women, elderly, inhabited houses, trees, animals, monks etc. etc.). One also joins certain groups within the army that does not go according to "collateral damage" like being a pilot, but rather as a foot soldier. That is the moment you have when one thinks about it EVERYTHING under control that one can abide by Islamic rules.

So no you have not thoughts this through. When we talk about a Islamic army (no not Saudi or Egypt or Turkey or Iran..not 1 army right now is Islamic army) like back with Rasullah(saws) and with rightful leaders as back in the history of Islam, that is when one does without questioning.

There are hadith about end times that talk about that one has to retreat themselves to their place of residence. It was asked what if they come in to my house, it was said be the best of the two sons of Adam(as). Also in another hadith it was said when they force you to join them, then make your sword blunt. And i believe in yet another hadith it was said do not take up arms or else you will be joining them in sins or doing harm.

These hadith aren't for the show you know. They are meant as lessons for us that we MAYBE will witness those times and how to act. So what we must ask ourselves is, is our imaan that strong that when they try to force us that we say you better kill me, because i will not join you in your killing.

One of the hadith here..

=====Hadith======
“Before the Hour comes, there will be tribulation like pieces of black night, when a man will wake up as a believer but be a disbeliever by evening, or he will be a believer in the evening but will be a disbeliever by morning. And the one who is sitting will be better than the one who is standing, and the one who is standing will be better than the one who is walking, and the one who is walking will be better than the one who is running. So break your bows, cut their strings and strike your swords against rocks, and if anyone enters upon anyone of you, let him be like the better of the two sons of Adam. (i.e. the one killed, not the killer).”

Source used: https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/36
================
Reply

azc
08-20-2017, 07:01 AM
In case of a western country for example, one doesNOTjoin the army.
What's the level of prohibition?
One ONLY does join the army if what i said before when defending the country if a force is trying to invade and they are the aggressors. That isthe moment one joins the army to defend the country.
but even in this situation they don't want you to join their force because they know that the representation of large number of Muslims in force will make Muslim community stronger in their country.
When as a soldier you still ABIDE by the rulings of war according to Islam NOT according to the Geneva Conventions (Islamic rulings such as: if a soldier gives up, you abstain from killing him, one does not harm children, women, elderly, inhabited houses, trees, animals, monks etc. etc.). One also joins certain groups within the army that does not go according to "collateral damage" like being a pilot, but rather as a foot soldier.That is the moment you have when one thinks about it EVERYTHING under control that one can abide by Islamic rules.So no you have not thoughts this through.
Islamic laws are not applied on non Muslims army or any other government sector and if a Muslim serves in it, will have to abide by man made laws, simultaneously, abiding by the Islamic laws in his individual capacity in case being a true Muslim.
When we talk about a Islamic army (no not Saudi or Egypt or Turkey or Iran..not 1 army right now is Islamic army) like backwith Rasullah(saws) and with rightful leaders as back in the history of Islam, that iswhen one does without questioning.
yes, there is no Islamic army in any Muslim country.
There are hadith
Most of the referred ahadith belong to the age close to the eta of Hz imam Mahdi ra.
Reply

Simple_Person
08-20-2017, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by azc
What's the level of prohibition?
What is the reason a army in the first exist? If we answer this based on logic, rationality and reason, we come to the answer solely based on defensive issues which sometimes offense is also defense, as when somebody oppresses your people and with dialogue they refuse to listen, you wage war against such oppressors, not to conquer, but to remove such oppressors. So rest of the time army does "not" exist.

Originally Posted by azc
but even in this situation they don't want you to join their force because they know that the representation of large number of Muslims in force will make Muslim community stronger in their country.
It is not what THEY think of you. You are responsible for your OWN actions. Joining the army without any defensive cause, will only bring harm upon you. I often am reminded of this.

"And keep yourself patient [by being] with those who call upon their Lord in the morning and the evening, seeking His countenance. And let not your eyes pass beyond them, desiring adornments of the worldly life, and do not obey one whose heart We have made heedless of Our remembrance and who follows his desire and whose affair is ever [in] neglect." Qur'an 18:28

When one joins the army not for the sake of protection as it has occurred, you will see that many Muslims will not be with you. You will be with those that do not worship Allah. You will create a bond who neglect the duty they have towards Allah. In other words, you WILL become like them. Do not worry about anyone, it is Allah who protects, not you. You only try to show to Him what is your limit of wanting to please Him, by joining the army while there is no reason right now, is not really something you should even dare to take. You KNOW i am right, although i do not care about me being right or wrong, but what is truth. Think about yourself, because on the Day of Judgement you will be held responsible.


Originally Posted by azc
Islamic laws are not applied on non Muslims army or any other government sector and if a Muslim serves in it, will have to abide by man made laws, simultaneously, abiding by the Islamic laws in his individual capacity in case being a true Muslim.
I am not sure where you base this on. Islamic law is applied to YOU and every other Muslim individual not the army. As far as i have known is that YOU will be held responsible for what YOU do, not what others do on the Day of Judgement. So you going to do collateral damage..you think Allah will say on the day of Judgement to the ones who had been killed by your collateral damage..be quite. Azc gets a free ticket to Janah. Fear Allah because what you say is the other side of the spectrum you are closely going towards. Remember, you will be held responsible for every deed you do, good or bad. Ponder about what i am saying, it is not simple "opinion" that is based on nothing.

Originally Posted by azc
Most of the referred ahadith belong to the age close to the eta of Hz imam Mahdi ra.
Who says that? What is close? Is close 1 month? 1 year? 10 years? 100 years? 100 years? Who says we are not within the scope of his arrival? Do not assume or "postpone" things or assume you are within or not within the time scope of his arrival.

"Then do they feel secure that there will not come to them an overwhelming [aspect] of the punishment of Allah or that the Hour will not come upon them suddenly while they do not perceive?" Qur'an 12:107

If we look at many signs of the end times, many are visible and they are getting worse. Since Arab spring things have gone in fast-mode. Do not expect him to come, but also expect him that he will come within your lifetime. What does that say? PREPARE yourself!! Your attitude is the TYPICAL attitude that i have witnessed many Muslims today. Be like this and the last thing you will witness is following dajjal. Be wise to not assume either the arrival or not the arrival, what stance then do we have to take? Preparation. If it happened within our life time..we say Alhamdulillah we have prepared for it. If it did not happened in our life time but we did prepare for it, we say alhamdulillah that i did not had to go through such fitna. That is the best advice i can five you.
Reply

Kamruddin
08-20-2017, 01:23 PM
I am Indian and yes I love India. It is ruled and governed by mostly Hindu people but India doesn't stop you for giving Dawah.
We have masjids everywhere in this country and preaching Islam is not prohibited either.
If anything is not going against Islam, then I have no problem to follow. But if anything clashes with the ruling of Islam then of course I will not follow.
Reply

azc
08-21-2017, 04:59 AM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
What is the reason a army in the first exist? If we answer this based on logic, rationality and reason, we come to the answer solely based on defensive issues which sometimes offense is also defense, as when somebody oppresses your people and with dialogue they refuse to listen, you wage war against such oppressors, not to conquer, but to remove such oppressors. So rest of the time army does "not" exist. It is not what THEY think of you. You are responsible for your OWN actions. Joining the army without any defensive cause, will only bring harm upon you. I often am reminded of this."And keep yourself patient [by being] with those who call upon their Lord in the morning and the evening, seeking His countenance. And let not your eyes pass beyond them, desiring adornments of the worldly life, and do not obey one whose heart We have made heedless of Our remembrance and who follows his desire and whose affair is ever [in] neglect." Qur'an 18:28When one joins the army not for the sake of protection as it has occurred, you will see that many Muslims will not be with you. You will be with those that do not worship Allah. You will create a bond who neglect the duty they have towards Allah. In other words, you WILL become like them. Do not worry about anyone, it is Allah who protects, not you. You only try to show to Him what is your limit of wanting to please Him, by joining the army while there is no reason right now, is not really something you should even dare to take. You KNOW i am right, although i do not care about me being right or wrong, but what is truth. Think about yourself, because on the Day of Judgement you will be held responsible.I am not sure where you base this on. Islamic law is applied to YOU and every other Muslim individual not the army. As far as i have known is that YOU will be held responsible for what YOU do, not what others do on the Day of Judgement. So you going to do collateral damage..you think Allah will say on the day of Judgement to the ones who had been killed by your collateral damage..be quite. Azc gets a free ticket to Janah. Fear Allah because what you say is the other side of the spectrum you are closely going towards. Remember, you will be held responsible for every deed you do, good or bad. Ponder about what i am saying, it is not simple "opinion" that is based on nothing.Who says that? What is close? Is close 1 month? 1 year? 10 years? 100 years? 100 years? Who says we are not within the scope of his arrival? Do not assume or "postpone" things or assume you are within or not within the time scope of his arrival."Then do they feel secure that there will not come to them an overwhelming [aspect] of the punishment of Allah or that the Hour will not come upon them suddenly while they do not perceive?" Qur'an 12:107If we look at many signs of the end times, many are visible and they are getting worse. Since Arab spring things have gone in fast-mode. Do not expect him to come, but also expect him that he will come within your lifetime. What does that say? PREPARE yourself!! Your attitude is the TYPICAL attitude that i have witnessed many Muslims today. Be like this and the last thing you will witness is following dajjal. Be wise to not assume either the arrival or not the arrival, what stance then do we have to take? Preparation. If it happened within our life time..we say Alhamdulillah we have prepared for it. If it did not happened in our life time but we did prepare for it, we say alhamdulillah that i did not had to go through such fitna. That is the best advice i can five you.
Your attitude is the TYPICAL attitude that i have witnessed many Muslims today. Be like this and the last thing you will witness is following dajjal.
who will face dajjal and who will follow him, Allah swt knows best.
Reply

Simple_Person
08-21-2017, 06:47 AM
Originally Posted by azc
who will face dajjal and who will follow him, Allah swt knows best.
Allah knows that exactly, but guidance is as clear as daylight ..what to do to not follow him. That one might follow dajjal has also a reason. Just like a family member of mine, brushing me off by making it as if we will not experience it in our life time. That is why i gave you that aya about the hour. We human beings always THINK things will come way ahead.

This even sub'han'Allah with dajjal etc, is a mercy of Allah, because Rasullah(saws) has made the signs of the Day of Judgement known. If one seeks about those signs that Rasullah(saws) talked about, we already see the minor-signs have appeared, one being his death. With those signs having appeared one talking the necessary steps to ignite change within themselves. It is not easy, but first step of acknowledging that those signs have appeared and will only worsen, thus making preparations for the next step of learning a, b, c, and doing x, y, z.

Allah saves whom He wants from dajjal and hell fire. But to be the one Allah chooses to save, one must ponder about what criteria has Allah so i could be one of those Allah saves. We already know of wiping out arrogance, pride, greed, trust in Him, being thankful for His bounty, envy, having patience, being steadfast, doing dhikr, good character, being humble, etc. etc.
Reply

STN
08-21-2017, 07:40 AM
Originally Posted by Kamruddin
I am Indian and yes I love India. It is ruled and governed by mostly Hindu people but India doesn't stop you for giving Dawah.
We have masjids everywhere in this country and preaching Islam is not prohibited either.
If anything is not going against Islam, then I have no problem to follow. But if anything clashes with the ruling of Islam then of course I will not follow.
Go and try to slaughter a cow this Eid InshaAllah and see what happens.
Reply

Simple_Person
08-21-2017, 08:24 AM
Originally Posted by STN
Go and try to slaughter a cow this Eid InshaAllah and see what happens.
What are you talking about..India is so free to practice your religion..the cow will be saved from slaughtering, and he will be slaughtered instead. :Emoji22::Emoji22::Emoji22::Emoji22:
Reply

azc
08-21-2017, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by Simple_Person
Allah knows that exactly, but guidance is as clear as daylight ..what to do to not follow him. That one might follow dajjal has also a reason. Just like a family member of mine, brushing me off by making it as if we will not experience it in our life time. That is why i gave you that aya about the hour. We human beings always THINK things will come way ahead.This even sub'han'Allah with dajjal etc, is a mercy of Allah, because Rasullah(saws) has made the signs of the Day of Judgement known. If one seeks about those signs that Rasullah(saws) talked about, we already see the minor-signs have appeared, one being his death. With those signs having appeared one talking the necessary steps to ignite change within themselves. It is not easy, but first step of acknowledging that those signs have appeared and will only worsen, thus making preparations for the next step of learning a, b, c, and doing x, y, z.Allah saves whom He wants from dajjal and hell fire. But to be the one Allah chooses to save, one must ponder about what criteria has Allah so i could be one of those Allah saves. We already know of wiping out arrogance, pride, greed, trust in Him, being thankful for His bounty, envy, having patience, being steadfast, doing dhikr, good character, being humble, etc. etc.
You're advised to sit with righteous ulama.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by STN
Go and try to slaughter a cow this Eid InshaAllah and see what happens.
Islam injuncts us to refrain from fasad and you're advising him to create fasad.
Reply

STN
08-21-2017, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Islam injuncts us to refrain from fasad and you're advising him to create fasad.
Nauzbillah. Brother, please read my post again, i was simply making a point that Muslims are not really free to practice their religion there and the biggest example of that is the slaughtering of cow. Just a few weeks ago, there was a man killed for slaughtering an animal and the government did nothing to give the family any justice.

If practicing your religious duties and pleasing Allah means creating fasad then isn't it better that you move to a Muslim country where you are completely free to practice Islam. Pakistan isn't very far and despite its corruption, it's still a place where you can practice Islam freely.

Yes, i'd advise the brother to not slaughter any cow lest he or his family be harmed from the extremist hindus but my first advice would be to migrate to a Muslim country where he can practice his religion freely.

And don't forget because of these extremist hindus that one of the great scholar Dr Zakir Naik was forced out of the country, we used to get his tv channel PeaceTV in Pakistan and my whole family used to sit and learn so much islamic knowledge but the channel doesn't even exist anymore.
Reply

M.I.A.
08-21-2017, 04:22 PM
Its no bad thing if you know how to fight.. the army is probably a good place to become competent.

...and disciplined.

If you just turned up on the day you would have to be pretty darn good.

Or pretty darn well lead.



But if you know anything about life then you know its never that simple.


As it is.. most people just get emotional at the tv.

And thats ok..



Everything is with allah swt.


I think a lot of people wouldnt fight unless they were paid, bribed or conscripted.. and thats a pretty mixed bag.
Reply

Kamruddin
08-22-2017, 09:46 PM
^^
Slaughtering a cow where I live is still allowed and yes, Insha'Allah we are slaughtering cow in this Eid also.
I live in a Muslim majority place where no one can do anything.

But again, even if you are not allowed to slaughter cow then don't forget cow is not the only animal that we allowed to slaughter in Eid.
There are other options as well like Goat, Camel, Sheep, etc you can definitely slaughter them if cow is a problem in your city.

Again, I am saying yes I am proud Indian Muslim. The first prophet in Islam didn't step on Saudi, Iran, Iraq, USA, London, etc. but in India, so indeed it is one of the best place on Earth.
Insha'Allah, Haji Ali (Peace be upon him) is sleeping in Mumbai, Abu Bakr Siddique (Peace be upon him) sleeping in Furfura sharif, West Bengal, Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti (Peace be upon him) sleeping in Ajmer, and so on.

Yes, Muslims are certainly facing challenges in India but every honest Muslim in the world is not immune from it either. Never did, Never will.
But we do seek help from Allah and indeed Allah will do justice to everyone.
Reply

Captain Howdy
11-19-2017, 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by STN
Go and try to slaughter a cow this Eid InshaAllah and see what happens.
The courtesy of respecting other faiths is expected . Just like we dont throw a pork in your mosques .
Reply

anatolian
11-19-2017, 03:01 PM
I think there is a hadith suggesting Muslims not to slaughter cows in India. Not sure though..But that can be followed. Allah doesnt forbid us to be kind to the others. If they are offended by your slaughter of cow why wouldnt you respect them? You still have other options.
Reply

sister herb
11-19-2017, 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
The courtesy of respecting other faiths is expected . Just like we dont throw a pork in your mosques .
I don´t think we can compare slaughtering the cow because people want to eat with throwing dead animal parts to the mosque because thrower wants to insult some others. Slaughtering an animal for the purpose to get a meal fulfills very different needs (than throwing pork to the mosque - then it perhaps fulfills the need to insult others?).
Reply

Supernova
11-19-2017, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by MazharShafiq
Sir, may we(Muslims who are resident of India) love India ?
this question is asked by a friend who is living in India which is governed by Hindu
So...Before you popped the question on IB - what was your answer to your friend?
Reply

Search
11-19-2017, 11:58 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Originally Posted by Captain Howdy
The courtesy of respecting other faiths is expected . Just like we dont throw a pork in your mosques .
Yes, cleverly, you like the idea of others (whoever they may be) respecting your faith but obviously do not believe in the same courtesy vis a vis hijab as proven as per your own words in the other thread about U.S. teachers pulling off students' hijabs. Hypocritical and rather sad too.

Peace.
Reply

Captain Howdy
11-20-2017, 03:16 AM
Originally Posted by Search
Hypocritical and rather sad too.
Thats your narrative uwu

Originally Posted by sister herb
Slaughtering an animal for the purpose to get a meal fulfills very different needs
You do realize when you are in someones else land you have to respect emotions of others as well . Otherwise you see you have terrible repercussions .
Reply

Karl
11-20-2017, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by MazharShafiq
Sir, may we(Muslims who are resident of India) love India ?
this question is asked by a friend who is living in India which is governed by Hindu
Did the Hindoos and Muslims love India when it was governed by the British Raj? Or are they happier under the boot of the USA and the UN now? As India is not governed by either Hindoo or Muslim ways but by modern western systems and mind sets. India has been ruled by foreign powers for centuries so I doubt that they can ever be free from external imperialist control, especially from the diabolical powers of the West. The Indians biggest weakness is their lack of defiance against foreign imperialists including foreign culture. Iranians, North Koreans and some African countries, on the other hand, at least have some self respect and try to fend off these imperialists. On the brighter side though, India has apparently expelled all foreign NGOs (spies and cultural manipulators). That is a step in the right direction but they have to go much further if they want to be free. Any nation that wants to be truly free should cut ties with the all controlling Zionist UN which has intensions of destroying all sovereignty of nations under a totalitarian One World Order.
Reply

Abz2000
11-21-2017, 03:08 AM
Dunno if any one asked the OP what he meant when he said "love" "(a certain country name)".

Did you mean the mud which is similar to other regional mud - and travels with water intercontinentally?
Do you maybe mean the air above it (which also happens to travel - although it tends to get a bit poisonous when it reaches mumbai)?
Do you mean the flag and the invisible mouthpieces gesturing from behind it?
Or do you mean the nature of the people who live within the lines drawn by their leaders and illegal occupiers?
Or what?

Let us bear in mind that Hubal was just a mascot - 'amr ibn hishaam (abu jahl), al waleed ibn al mugheerah, Abu lahab, and Abu Sufyaan were the actual movers and shakers of the time dictating what constituted love for Hubal and what constituted disrespect for Hubal and the forefathers who worshipped it.

The Creator of the heavens and the earth however is very different - because the entity is real and the entity is just and wise.
Reply

AbdurRahman.
11-21-2017, 02:22 PM
you can love your homeland; hadith says when a makkan arrival to Medinah started describing Makkah to Prophet Muhammad (saw), his (saw) eyes started watering as the memmories of his homeland came back to him.

but hate all the kufr and shirk that the government and the Hindus culture represents
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-10-2010, 01:58 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-20-2008, 06:24 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-11-2008, 08:10 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-15-2007, 11:43 PM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-01-2007, 09:04 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!