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Stoic
09-28-2017, 05:39 AM
There are differences in opinion as to what is regarded as halal. This depends on which madhab(school of law) or scholarly opinions you follow.

It is clear that no meat can be consumed without saying Bismilah. According to Sh. Yusuf Qaradawi, he said the following.

"It is not required of the Muslim to inquire about what he has not witnessed, i.e., How was the animal killed? Did the manner of slaughter meet the Islamic conditions? Was the name of Allah mentioned while slaughtering or not? If the animal was slaughtered by a Muslim, even if he is ignorant or sinful, or by someone from among the People of the Book, eating it is halal for us."

The Prophet was asked, “People bring us meat and we do not know whether they have mentioned the name of Allah over it or not. Shall we eat it or not?” and the Prophet (peace be on him) replied, “Mention the name of Allah (over it) and eat.” (Bukhari)

Concerning the application of this hadith, scholars say: This is proof that the actions and practices of people are ordinarily considered to be correct and appropriate, while deviation or error must be proved.

https://islamictext.wordpress.com/278-2/

Concerning meat from the Christians and the Jews.

According to Sh. Yusuf Qaradawi, meat from Christians and Jews are halal for Muslims. He quotes the verse Quran 5:5. He states that while Islam takes an uncompromising attitude towards polytheists, it is lenient towards the People of the Book for they are closer in their belief in divine revelation.

Sh. Yusuf Qaradawi also states that even animals slaughtered for Christian festivals is halal for us to eat if we don't hear the name of other than God mentioned. He also mentions that some jurist are of the opinion that because food from the People of the Book has been permitted to us by God, then so is anything that is slaughtered by Christians and Jews regardless of whose name is mentioned.

Narrated by At-Tabari, someone asked Abu ad-Darda' whether he could eat the flesh of lamb slaughtered for the Church of St.George, which has been given to him. Abu ad-Darda' answered, "Are they not the People of the Book, whose food is halal for us and ours for them?" He then told the person to eat it.

Imam Malik was once asked about eating the flesh of animals slaughtered for Christian festivals and churches. He replied, "I classify it as mukruh but not haram."

He classified it as makruh because he was afraid that it might have been dedicated to someone other than Allah but not as haram because perhaps, with respect to the People of the Book, the meaning of the phrase, 'that which has been dedicated to any other than Allah,' applies only to those animals which they slaughter for the purpose of seeking the pleasure of their deities and not to eat. As for what they slaughter to eat, it is their food, and God says, "The food of those who were given the Scripture is permitted to you...." (Quran 5:5).

This has been taken from 'The Lawful and The Prohibited in Islam' by Sh. Yusuf al-Qaradawi. Pg. 56 - 58


So food doesn't have to strictly say "halal"?
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Simple_Person
09-28-2017, 08:01 AM
Sub'han'Allah this reminds me of this hadith..

=======Hadith=======
Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman said, "The Prophet said, 'Islam will become worn out like clothes are, until there will be no-one who knows what fasting, prayer, charity and rituals are. The Qur'an will disappear in one night, and no ayah will be left on earth. Some groups of old people will be left who will say, 'We heard our fathers saying la ilaha illa Allah, so we repeated it.' ' Silah asked Hudhayfah, "What will saying la ilaha illa Allah do for them when they do not know what prayer, fasting, ritual and charity are?" Hudhayfah ignored him; then Silah repeated his question three times, and each time Hudayfah ignored him. Finally he answered, "O Silah, it will save them from Hell", and said it three times. [Ibn Majah]

Source used: http://sunnahonline.com/library/para...-judgement-the
==================

Islamic path is being twisted and turned in to whatever satisfies the heart, just like old clothing first being put on, later on being used to clean or whatever...until is useless piece of cloth not benefiting for anything.

While it is sooo simple. Rasullah(saws) he did not eat meat that often, we even know of Umar ibn Khattab (ra) warning us of meat being addictive. In other words don't eat meat that often, maybe once every 2 weeks or once a month. I would not believed somebody if he/she would have said this if i would not have experimented with it myself. These days i don't even miss meat to be honest. Sometimes not eating meat a whole month. Instead i eat dates very often (it also contains iron) or spinach or other green leafy vegetables that also contain a lot of iron.

If one says but i need meat, what prevents one to go and buy fish? Or once every so now and then go somewhere that you buy halal meat and put it in a freezer? Or even buy a chicken and slaughter it yourself? What will happen to somebody if one says i abstain from eating meat that could be put in the category of "doubt". If one does NOT eat the meat that is in the category of "doubtful", will one be held responsible for not eating it? Off course not, even vegetarian Muslims are not held responsible for their way of life one could say. I mean as long as they are of opinion meat is not haram to eat, but they choose not to eat it. Choose the path of being secure above doubtful.

My advice to everybody, please think for yourself, because YOU will be held responsible for YOUR actions. Many scholars of today aren't at the same level as the scholars of the past.
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M.I.A.
09-28-2017, 01:50 PM
I suppose the world has changed a lot since that time..

How many people are regularly involved in capturing and slaughtering the meat they consume?

Not many.

..but it has developed its own way..

So for instance if i see a mcdonalds..

I know that it does not cater for muslims.. Because it does not say halal anywhere.

..if it does then its a different matter.

I know that even though it may be in a Christian country.. its meat has little to do with any christian method..

Why?
..
..
On the flip side, the law requires that the things you buy are correctly advertised..

So if something is said to be halal and is not.. somewhere along the line people are accountable.

For directly misguiding a people.

For example..

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-c...shire-39652852

Which is somewhat related to the quran..

In that if you eat haram through hardship and without the intent to cause mischief therein.. then it is excusable.

But today the things you bring up apply almost too specifically..

Because we often live in abundance..

Very few of us are deprived or constricted in such a manner that we cannot literally find alternatives.
..
..
Athough the kicker is how and through whom we earn our money.

If you are ever in a position to not be able to turn food down, im sure you will know the reason why.

..but if the reason is apathy and indifference then it is hardly excusable..

I suppose we await someone to say, its not what we put into our mouths that defiles us..

Allah swt raises and lowers as he wills..

Some people are good for you and some are not.

Its the difference between finding guidance and misguidance..

Although frankly i cant tell the difference.
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Zzz_
09-28-2017, 07:41 PM
Question is, are you going to listen to these so called modern "scholars" of today or those of the past who actually spent their WHOLE life studying Islam inside and out ? Give me $50 and i'll get you a fatwa saying pork is halal.
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M.I.A.
09-28-2017, 08:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zzz_
Question is, are you going to listen to these so called modern "scholars" of today or those of the past who actually spent their WHOLE life studying Islam inside and out ? Give me $50 and i'll get you a fatwa saying pork is halal.
..i found a fatwa saying such a thing.

..i dint find no fiddy dollars though.

Ok maybe misrepresented for a moment.. it actually said pork gelatine was permissible.

Unfortunately there is no alternative..

It requires investment that people/governments do not want to make..

So i guess in part.. it is necessary.

Pork derived gelatine in vaccines cannot be negated by rose tinted idealism.

The fatwa went on to say all gelatine products are permissible..

And that stumped me.

But it has a lot of backing..


Maybe if they knew a lot of money can be made from halal vaccines things could be different..

I dont know how they work and you cant change things looking in from the outside.

But scientific progress driven by firm religious beliefs can be no bad thing lol..

I have no idea what a golden age looks like..

But i would say halal meat is important.

Preserving its integrity is a unifying matter in an un-unified community.

If you lose it.. you lose something you didnt even have awareness of.

I know thats not what OP is on about.. but it is a different time.. with different resources.

The importance of eating halal should not be downplayed..where possible..

Imo. :|

My department manager took me out to dinner once..

I was skeptical of the food and didnt end up eating much.

It was so awkward it was a new low even for me.

..and that may have contributed to me not getting a permanent contract at the end of my probationary period.

Although im an idiot in other ways too!

You makes your choices, you takes your chances.
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AbdurRahman.
09-29-2017, 03:25 PM
Christians do not 'slaughter' (i.e, cutting the throat while animal is alive) anymore and there is no 'christian' meat in the West these days either, their meat is totally disassociated from religious slaughter and is purely a irreligious process so yusuf qaradawis fatwa does not apply to us western muslims
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M.I.A.
09-29-2017, 04:43 PM
..to be honest with you, im not even sure if such a practice existed in the first place.

I have no idea.
Reply

Simple_Person
09-29-2017, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
Christians do not 'slaughter' (i.e, cutting the throat while animal is alive) anymore and there is no 'christian' meat in the West these days either, their meat is totally disassociated from religious slaughter and is purely a irreligious process so yusuf qaradawis fatwa does not apply to us western muslims
I tried to refrain as much as possible from commenting anymore, however i must correct you on that.

Even 2 years ago, i would have believed you, but a refugee (Eritrean) was a housemate of mine and we had many discussions about religion. One day i offered him some chicken and he said he was not allowed to eat meat that is slaughtered in Allah's name. I was surprised as i never ever have heard such a thing earlier from any Christian. However as i am curious i started to question to better understand this stance. He btw was a Orthodox Christian. I asked him, well how do people then slaughter the animals back home? He said it is being slaughtered in Jesus(as) his name. I was super shocked to hear that. However as i am myself and start often intellectual debate instead, i said oke, you are not allowed to eat meat that is slaughtered in the name of Allah. Why do you eat meat in the supermarket then? As that meat is also not slaughtered in the name of Jesus(as)? Off course sadly no reply.

But that made me realize that Christians of today based on logic, i can't say they are people of the book. Later on i read also this..

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment." Qur'an 5:73

As majority of the Christians of today believe in trinity and just few Christians really have only One God and don't believe in trinity.

Which logically one could say indeed their meat is not lawful to eat. However as i do not take firm stance on this their meat being haram, i say it has become in the category of doubtful, which in matters of doubt i just abstain from eating as there are alhamdulillah enough Islamic alternatives for it. Even when going to eat at a restaurant there is always fish to eat alhamdulillah or vegetarian dish.
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M.I.A.
09-29-2017, 06:18 PM
Well..

To which religion did the earliest adopters of christianity previously belong?

Logic test.. i dont have any other method "/

Or maybe to which religion did mary AS belong?

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can clarify.. if things are not logical.
Reply

Simple_Person
09-29-2017, 06:28 PM
I guess this hadith (which i was seeking earlier but couldn't find), sums it up this whole topic...

======hadith=======
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say, “That which is lawful is clear and that which is unlawful is clear, and between the two of them are doubtful matters about which many people do not know. Thus he who avoids doubtful matters clears himself in regard to his religion and his honor, but he who falls into doubtful matters [eventually] falls into that which is unlawful, like the shepherd who pastures around a sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Truly every king has a sanctuary, and truly Allah’s sanctuary is His prohibitions. Truly in the body there is a morsel of flesh, which, if it be whole, all the body is whole, and which, if it is diseased, all of [the body] is diseased. Truly, it is the heart.”

Source used: https://sunnah.com/nawawi40/6
=================
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
09-30-2017, 02:16 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum.

Firstly fatwa's are not binding by any means just the position of a scholar on a particular matter but in my view any so called "fatwa" that tells you not to "worry" about halal and Haraam meat in this day and age living in the west then it is not only irrelevant to us but should be totally rejected and I would go as far as to say it is very misleading.

Most of these non Muslim organisations that sell haraam meat are not "Christian" by any means and even if some of them were then they are nothing like the "practising" Christians of the past. Even with Kosher meat then there are many different types of Jewish sects and denominations and kosher certifying organisations with varying methods of slaughter, most of which does not even conform to correct Islamic Dhabihah methods.

On top of that there is the issue of stunning the animal before slaughter which if we look at the strict criteria of Islamic Dhabihah then we find that the animal must be alive before slaughter but stunning poultry like Chicken for example which is very fragile then you will find that many die after stunning which renders the meat (particularly poultry) Haraam so in general stunning then it becomes "doubtful" as there is no definitive way to control the wattage to ensure the animal does not die before slaughter and even if it does not die it is significantly physically damaged before slaughter.

Also even many Muslim slaughter houses adopt methods that do not conform to correct Islamic Dhabihah methods like playing a tape of the name of Allah rather than saying it with their tongues and non Muslims slaughtering animals in place of Muslims. Other examples are the name of Allah written on equipment used to slaughter animals, haraam meat being put in place of "halal" meat and many other non Islamic methods. All because of profit over Religion and such people have sold their souls to the worldly life for a cheap price.

For anyone to say we should blindly trust non Muslims in our day and age and in the west and eat their meat then that is totally ignorant and beyond absurd but even in the case of "Muslims", many people say they should be blindly "trusted". But if we look at the over whelming evidence of dodgy practices in slaughterer houses run by Muslims and the sheer rampant dishonesty of the "Muslim" meat trade in the west then I would say that if your deen and Imaan really matters to you then you should not take this issue lightly. We must never just "ignore it" and carry on a eating meat without taking any steps to ensure that the meat we are eating conforms to the correct Islamic Dhabihah methods. With regards to non Muslim meat then it is simple common sense that we do not eat Haraam meat full stop. Unfortunately many Muslims are still totally ignorant and enjoy indulging in McDonald's and feeding their children filthy haraam meat. Then they complain when Dua's are not accepted and things are going wrong with their children. A very sad state of affairs indeed.

Are we not concerned with what we put in our bodies that we would just ignore it say "Bismillah" and carry on? When we know for a fact that there are no proper Christians of the people of the book today as there was in the past and similarly the Jews of today are also very different to the Jews of the past as well as their varying methods of kosher slaughter methods and what is deemed kosher.

Many Muslims eat so called "halal" McDonald's and KFC with dodgy halal certification, and when they have been proven to use haraam meat when halal meat has run out. And they eat Nandos when ithe meat comes from Freeman's of Gloucester who are known to use non Muslims in place of Muslims when there are staff shortages and they have admitted to stunning the chickens before slaughter. Then how can we freely eat such meat with peace in our minds and hearts? We have become so negligent. We think it is acceptable to be "ignorant" of these matters as there is a "halal certification" ignoring the overwhelming evidence that non Islamic Dhabihah methods are used.

Alhamdulillah in the UK we have HMC which is a Halal Monitoring Authority which authenticates Muslim food organisations on their Islamic Dhabihah methods. They are the only Muslim Food authority that sends out monitors and believe me they are strict in certification and attend premises at random. It is far more trustworthy than any other so called "halal certifying body" like HFA for example who are complete sellouts and I would never put any trust in them when it comes to halal certification. Similarly we should look into whether there are "trustworthy" Muslim halal meat slaughter organisations in our respective countries. If not then we should at least ask questions of our butchers and those who sell meat and ask the suppliers questions. Just like we are careful with what we speak of then we should also be very careful what we put into our bodies. On top of that we must not eat meat very often. One or twice a month is sufficient. The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) only ate meat on occasion but for many of us we cannot eat anything but meat. This was very frowned upon at the times of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam). Also it is very bad for the health. So we must reduce the amount of meat we consume to once or twice a month or at least no more than once a week inshaAllah.

Therefore let us make utmost effort to ensure we at least take certain steps to check what we are putting into our body really is "halal" as what we consume of haraam affects our hearts and souls and those of us who are too lax about this issue or don't care then we are being negligent about ensuring what we are consuming is permissible in accordance with the correct Islamic Dhabihah methods.

I leave you with an important hadith and reminder from our beloved Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam with regards to keeping away from all doubtful matters and "grey areas":

On the authority Abi Ab’dillahi al-Nu’man ibn Basheer (ra) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say: “That which is lawful is clear and that which is unlawful is clear and between the two of them are doubtful [or ambiguous] matters about which not many people are knowledgeable. Thus, he who avoids these doubtful matters certainly clears himself in regard to his religion and his honor. But he who falls into the doubtful matters falls into that which is unlawful like the shepherd who pastures around a sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Verily every king has a sanctuary and Allah’s sanctuary is His prohibition. In the body there is a morsel of flesh which, if it be sound, all the body is sound and which, if it be diseased, all the body is diseased. This part of the body is the heart”. [Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim]
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noraina
09-30-2017, 03:11 PM
This ^^^^^

People can sometimes take the issue of halal and haraam food so lightly subhanAllah, it's easy to forget that the food we eat doesn't just affect us physically, it affects our soul, our heart and our spiritual wellbeing.

Eating halal is like *so* important, not enough emphasis can be placed upon it. If you have some doubt about whatever you are eating, it is best to avoid it.

It is true, the People of the Book were commanded by Allah swt to slaughter their meat more or less the way Muslims were commanded, but seriously just how many Christians today slaughter their meat in that way? Not many. And even if there are a small percentage that do, if you have no official authentication or way of being 100% sure, is it really worth taking the risk through guesswork and eating that beef burger or chicken nugget because it *might* have been slaughtered according to Christian/Jewish/Islamic regulations? Not at all.

And there is so much variety out there these days. Whenever I eat out, unless I can completely trust the halal certification I choose the vegetarian option (which is delicious by the way). It's not like we have no choice but to eat some dodgy meat, and besides cutting down on meat consumption is a good thing, especially looking at the sad state of the commercial meat industry today, but that's another topic altogether.
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M.I.A.
09-30-2017, 03:50 PM
Its all too familiar lol..

https://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-kn...hicken+noodles

Another year gone.


I may be taking this one out of context.. but imo vegetarianism is not a viable solution.

Sahih International: And [recall] when you said, "O Moses, we can never endure one [kind of] food. So call upon your Lord to bring forth for us from the earth its green herbs and its cucumbers and its garlic and its lentils and its onions." [Moses] said, "Would you exchange what is better for what is less? Go into [any] settlement and indeed, you will have what you have asked." And they were covered with humiliation and poverty and returned with anger from Allah [upon them]. That was because they [repeatedly] disbelieved in the signs of Allah and killed the prophets without right. That was because they disobeyed and were [habitually] transgressing.


...the joke is that it may not be our decision to make in the end..

Animal cruelty being at the forefront of the news.


Maybe OPs post just became relevant.


...its a funny old world. If you wernt laffin youd be cryin.

Props to nandos for even trying lol.

Some would say its double standards..

And it is,

If your in a position to change things please do so..

Its a lot easier to reform than to rebuild from the ground up..

Said humpty dumpty.
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AbdurRahman.
09-30-2017, 05:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
I tried to refrain as much as possible from commenting anymore, however i must correct you on that.

Even 2 years ago, i would have believed you, but a refugee (Eritrean) was a housemate of mine and we had many discussions about religion. One day i offered him some chicken and he said he was not allowed to eat meat that is slaughtered in Allah's name. I was surprised as i never ever have heard such a thing earlier from any Christian. However as i am curious i started to question to better understand this stance. He btw was a Orthodox Christian. I asked him, well how do people then slaughter the animals back home? He said it is being slaughtered in Jesus(as) his name. I was super shocked to hear that. However as i am myself and start often intellectual debate instead, i said oke, you are not allowed to eat meat that is slaughtered in the name of Allah. Why do you eat meat in the supermarket then? As that meat is also not slaughtered in the name of Jesus(as)? Off course sadly no reply.

But that made me realize that Christians of today based on logic, i can't say they are people of the book. Later on i read also this..

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment." Qur'an 5:73

As majority of the Christians of today believe in trinity and just few Christians really have only One God and don't believe in trinity.

Which logically one could say indeed their meat is not lawful to eat. However as i do not take firm stance on this their meat being haram, i say it has become in the category of doubtful, which in matters of doubt i just abstain from eating as there are alhamdulillah enough Islamic alternatives for it. Even when going to eat at a restaurant there is always fish to eat alhamdulillah or vegetarian dish.
hi SP

i was talking about in the west; it's just a government set of rules they follow here [the non-muslims] and it has nothing to do with religion, and even if they did slaughter in the name of Jesus, that would make it all the more haram as it would be a shirky slaughter and not in name of God!
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Simple_Person
09-30-2017, 06:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
hi SP

i was talking about in the west; it's just a government set of rules they follow here [the non-muslims] and it has nothing to do with religion, and even if they did slaughter in the name of Jesus, that would make it all the more haram as it would be a shirky slaughter and not in name of God!
And my comment was rather directed to the world other than the western world. In other words the western world when we talk about their meat...we come to the result of either haram or doubtful aka just abstain from eating. My comment being of the other world as you said just being shirk, which also becomes haram or if we do not know at least also doubtful which also result in abstaining from eating. So the world all together is becomes more and more corrupt.

So right now the most wise decision is first work on yourself (in general for all of us) with that meaning eat less meat aka start following the sunnah. The other being just abstain as much as possible from eating meat from others. We won't die if we do not eat as there is enough food besides meat that is haram or doubtful. Also as advice and reminder to myself and others, beware of other Muslims who do not make a big issue out of this..that you do not follow their behavior. A friend of mine says that some scholar said we should not make things super hard for ourselves when i once and even often reminded him of gelatine being used in some ingredients he was eating. While logically speaking not eating those food being sweets or whatever will not kill you, so why even trespass in that area right? So beware as such people will be judged about their actions as you and i will be judged according to our actions.


Just last year or so i read about a company in the western country that i live in, they use to make halal food and i use consume their products. After i started to read more about it, the Islamic authority that investigated this company approved ONLY certain meat products made by this company as being halal, but all other meat products did not get a halal-certificate so to say. However the company just branded each and every product as halal. That being the owner of the company being a western guy.

This made me even more aware of things. Things are just way too messed up these days.

For others who read this comment and think people like me are being to strict, think about it like this. These days having certain western-medicine really messes with your body. You suddenly get very fat, although not eating a lot or other side effects. Even taking 1 drop of poison is not healthy for your body, so remember how little of such bad ingredients is processed in the foods, know there is a chance that it messes up your body. Look at people around you..people get fat because of food..which is something strange don't you think? And i am talking about people who eat NORMAL..not the ones that eat abnormal amounts of food. Food isn't food anymore.

If i read now a days what is put in to bread i am shocked. I mean what happened to just flower, water, salt and yeast?
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anatolian
09-30-2017, 09:06 PM
I think the article doesnt claim that eating halal is not that important. It says what is halal and what is not. Its identification of halal is just less strict than others.
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ameliajoo
07-20-2020, 12:15 PM
The Importance of Halal. In its most general definition, the term halal refers to what is permissible or lawful in traditional Islamic law. ... Generally, killing animals in Islam is only permissible for two main reasons – to be eaten or to eliminate danger. For an animal to be slaughtered for food, it must be halal.

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