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Ssajjad
11-13-2017, 03:55 AM
worshipping allah for lifetime , and then going jannah for eternity, how does it makes sense because lifetime is like 70-80 years and its nothing compared to eternity , i mean like lets assume on of you have entered jannah , 10000000000 billion years have passed , and then think again , now you are in jannah for that many years and think of this life , its already a long time, my question is , does it makes sense that allah will give you so much in return by just worshipping him for like 70-80 or even 90 years,

what about the people of the hellfire, what about them , is their punishment unfair, sure they do not deserve jannah , sure they dont deserve forgiveness, but allah is most merciful and most forgiving , right, so why not just end these people of hellfire , after like 10000 years of punishment , thats alot isnt it , so why allah says they will burn forever meaning more than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000 billion years , but he can just end them after the punishment so to make it fair ,
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AbdurRahman.
11-13-2017, 08:10 AM
the people who worship Allah would continue to worship him if they were given eternal life on earth so it makes sense to get an eternal paradise; also it makes sense according to Allah's Mercy, worship Him 80 years and you get an eternity of rewards!

it's the same for kaafirs, if they were given eternity on earth they'd remain nonbelievers
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eesa the kiwi
11-13-2017, 08:35 AM
A belief in no hereafter makes no sense

Say there's a good guy, prays fasts and gives in charity. Lives a life of hardship but remains firm When he dies nothing just a hole in the ground

Say there's a wicked man kills rapes steals and when he dies nothing just a hole in the ground

I would argue if you believe in a creator a belief in the hereafter is the next logical step as this wordly life is insufficient as a reward or a punishment

As for your question about how eternity in hellfire is fair. Are you really going to question the justice of the most supreme of judges? Know that whatever they recieved they have earned khalas
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Supernova
11-13-2017, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Ssajjad
worshipping allah for lifetime , and then going jannah for eternity, how does it makes sense because lifetime is like 70-80 years and its nothing compared to eternity , i mean like lets assume on of you have entered jannah , 10000000000 billion years have passed , and then think again , now you are in jannah for that many years and think of this life , its already a long time, my question is , does it makes sense that allah will give you so much in return by just worshipping him for like 70-80 or even 90 years,

what about the people of the hellfire, what about them , is their punishment unfair, sure they do not deserve jannah , sure they dont deserve forgiveness, but allah is most merciful and most forgiving , right, so why not just end these people of hellfire , after like 10000 years of punishment , thats alot isnt it , so why allah says they will burn forever meaning more than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000 billion years , but he can just end them after the punishment so to make it fair ,
Brother kindly asking you - firstly are you muslim ?

The reason I am asking is because the question itself you have asked will eject one into Kufr.
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Ssajjad
11-13-2017, 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by Supernova
Brother kindly asking you - firstly are you muslim ?

The reason I am asking is because the question itself you have asked will eject one into Kufr.


Yes i am muslim, but then being a muslim ive always thought that why wouldnt allah just cause the kafir to end after a long time of punishment in the hellfire instead of eternity, look at the time of this life 100 years maximum you live, and look at the time of the hereafter, its unimaginable , like more than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000 billion, so for failing in the test of life in this life of 100 years , you will be puished for eternity, does it make sense,

Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz
the people who worship Allah would continue to worship him if they were given eternal life on earth so it makes sense to get an eternal paradise; also it makes sense according to Allah's Mercy, worship Him 80 years and you get an eternity of rewards!

it's the same for kaafirs, if they were given eternity on earth they'd remain nonbelievers

i know what you are tyring to say it makes sense, but doesnt hellfire seem unfair for the disbelievers, can you explain how it is fair

the thing is that i am questioning doesnt mean i dont believe in allah, how can i stop myself from questioning, ofc god has given us brain to think so im doing nothing wrong
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M.I.A.
11-13-2017, 06:33 PM
https://youtu.be/M-UgK0Shn8o

Jewish people have a different understanding off hell.

Although a similar concept exists in islam.. although i forget the specifics..

If anyone knows the specifics then please do let us know.

...entirely irrelevant to the thread but hey..

I think some quranic verses also act as a rebuttle to the above understanding directly...

Although the specifics escape me.

Maybe it is relevant but i dont know?
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Supernova
11-13-2017, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Ssajjad
worshipping allah for lifetime , and then going jannah for eternity, how does it makes sense because lifetime is like 70-80 years and its nothing compared to eternity , i mean like lets assume on of you have entered jannah , 10000000000 billion years have passed , and then think again , now you are in jannah for that many years and think of this life , its already a long time, my question is , does it makes sense that allah will give you so much in return by just worshipping him for like 70-80 or even 90 years,

what about the people of the hellfire, what about them , is their punishment unfair, sure they do not deserve jannah , sure they dont deserve forgiveness, but allah is most merciful and most forgiving , right, so why not just end these people of hellfire , after like 10000 years of punishment , thats alot isnt it , so why allah says they will burn forever meaning more than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000 billion years , but he can just end them after the punishment so to make it fair ,
I read your reply - which was basically just a rephrase of your question.

The bottom line here is that you are confusing your position with Allah SWT. He is your creator - you are accountable to him. It is not the other way around, you are not the creator of Allah SWT. He is not accountable to you. You are taking you limited knowledge and limited understanding of justice and now holding Allah SWT accountable meanwhile Allah SWT is the All knowing and Every Just.

This is why I have pointed out that your question itself will eject you into Kufr. Simply because you not understanding that You, in all your limitations, is holding Allah SWT accountable thinking that you know what is fair and Allah SWT doesn't !!!

So technically you have on your accord dismissed 2 Sifath of Allah SWT - in the first 3 generations of Islam (and much after that) your very question itself would have been a self declaration of Kufr.
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faisal27
11-13-2017, 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
https://youtu.be/M-UgK0Shn8o

Jewish people have a different understanding off hell.

Although a similar concept exists in islam.. although i forget the specifics..

If anyone knows the specifics then please do let us know.

...entirely irrelevant to the thread but hey..
Jewish people differ in their belief of Hell, as the Torah does not describe it in detail.
Early Jews did not believe in it, while others do but not in a firey way. One popular belief is the idea of Gehinnom, which is like a stage they go through to become purified before reaching heaven.
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AbdurRahman.
11-13-2017, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Ssajjad
Yes i am muslim, but then being a muslim ive always thought that why wouldnt allah just cause the kafir to end after a long time of punishment in the hellfire instead of eternity, look at the time of this life 100 years maximum you live, and look at the time of the hereafter, its unimaginable , like more than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000 billion, so for failing in the test of life in this life of 100 years , you will be puished for eternity, does it make sense,




i know what you are tyring to say it makes sense, but doesnt hellfire seem unfair for the disbelievers, can you explain how it is fair

the thing is that i am questioning doesnt mean i dont believe in allah, how can i stop myself from questioning, ofc god has given us brain to think so im doing nothing wrong
The reason that I gave was thought up by a great Scholar of the past but this is only a human rationale and the real reason is, Allah's Justice is best and He knows exactly what they deserve and we have no right to question it.

I myself have thought up something from my own puny mind and however ridiculous it may sound, I might as well share it

a Muslim sinner who Ends up in hell will one day have all his sins burnt Off/forgiven and he'd enter heaven as he'll be left with some good in his heart, but the kuffar doesn't have any good in his heart so the heart always remains evil
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M.I.A.
11-13-2017, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by faisal27
Jewish people differ in their belief of Hell, as the Torah does not describe it in detail.
Early Jews did not believe in it, while others do but not in a firey way. One popular belief is the idea of Gehinnom, which is like a stage they go through to become purified before reaching heaven.
Well, thanks for that..

Im clueless really.. self learning..

Sounds similar to jahannam though.

..its like the sopranos out here lol.. im not doing this for 80 years thats for sure.
Reply

air
11-14-2017, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by Ssajjad
worshipping allah for lifetime , and then going jannah for eternity, how does it makes sense because lifetime is like 70-80 years and its nothing compared to eternity , i mean like lets assume on of you have entered jannah , 10000000000 billion years have passed , and then think again , now you are in jannah for that many years and think of this life , its already a long time, my question is , does it makes sense that allah will give you so much in return by just worshipping him for like 70-80 or even 90 years, what about the people of the hellfire, what about them , is their punishment unfair, sure they do not deserve jannah , sure they dont deserve forgiveness, but allah is most merciful and most forgiving , right, so why not just end these people of hellfire , after like 10000 years of punishment , thats alot isnt it , so why allah says they will burn forever meaning more than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000 billion years , but he can just end them after the punishment so to make it fair ,
Assalamualaikum Allah will forgive those who search forgiveness and do tawbah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7suDUh-D-F8 This is nice video Maybe you should change the concept of understanding janah and jahannam, not as a punishment but as our final destination, let say if you have good credits you'll go to janah, but if you have bad credits you have to redeem it first (by enter jahannam) before you can use your good credits, well if you doesn't have any good credits maybe you just can't enter janah, and it's fair. In jahannam you'll be treated with azab, while in janah you'll get what you want...
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talibilm
11-14-2017, 01:19 AM
IMO, if there is no Hereafter then an undeserving life of many on this world does not make any sense.

Since some one is Good and fair but still lives in troubles n poverty & someone is a Crook cheating but lives in luxuries.

If one does a 100 murders in our Court he is just executed only once for 100 lives which is not fair. Fairness will be done ONLY if he is executed 100 times , So when we can get this fairness ? and How ?

The answer is only on the day of judgement and post # 2 has a great answer as well as those who persist in Bad may persist in bad for ever so is the eternal Punishment from Allah , The All Wise, though he is All Merciful as well & The All Just too.
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*charisma*
11-14-2017, 04:08 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

Originally Posted by Ssajjad
worshipping allah for lifetime , and then going jannah for eternity, how does it makes sense because lifetime is like 70-80 years and its nothing compared to eternity , i mean like lets assume on of you have entered jannah , 10000000000 billion years have passed , and then think again , now you are in jannah for that many years and think of this life , its already a long time, my question is , does it makes sense that allah will give you so much in return by just worshipping him for like 70-80 or even 90 years,

what about the people of the hellfire, what about them , is their punishment unfair, sure they do not deserve jannah , sure they dont deserve forgiveness, but allah is most merciful and most forgiving , right, so why not just end these people of hellfire , after like 10000 years of punishment , thats alot isnt it , so why allah says they will burn forever meaning more than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000 billion years , but he can just end them after the punishment so to make it fair ,
Mashallah, you have the ability to reflect. But let's reflect a little bit deeper.

Allah is the MOST fair, the most just, "Al'Adl". It's not on you or anyone else to decide what is considered to be fair when it comes to evaluating a person's soul. Actually, you being the judge of someone's soul would be considered very unfair. What you are talking about is not fairness...it's MERCY. And again, Allah is indeed the MOST merciful as it is one of his attributes--"ArRaheem." So this is something you must get straight in your head first. As a Muslim you absolutely cannot consider Allah as less than that. You have no option in that regard. Your opinion of what is fair and unfair is based solely on the perspective of this world. You do not know about the wider scope of things.

Secondly, if you do not pass the exams successfully, will you EVER become or be accepted as a doctor? Even after 1000 or a billion years? No.

This is the life. Allah gave us this life as a test. We chose this test, and when the results are in that is your final destination. So because this life is so short you can say it is easy while others say it is difficult. It's a bit of both, but for every difficulty Allah gives us compensation, and for every sin, there is a way to repent, and when something good happens to us we have to remember Allah for the blessing and remember that our blessings are also a test. Islam describes in detail what the hellfire is and what jannah is. He tells us exactly how to avoid hellfire and how to enter jannah. If someone rejects Islam, causes fitnah for others, insults people, oppresses them, kills them, insults Allah, and feels elated when Muslims or anyone in general loses their faith in Allah, and dies so defiantly against this religion or anything good in this world, then they are in every sense and definition, the inhabitants of hellfire. But again, that's for Allah to decide in the end. :)
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Ümit
11-14-2017, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum



Mashallah, you have the ability to reflect. But let's reflect a little bit deeper.

Allah is the MOST fair, the most just, "Al'Adl". It's not on you or anyone else to decide what is considered to be fair when it comes to evaluating a person's soul. Actually, you being the judge of someone's soul would be considered very unfair. What you are talking about is not fairness...it's MERCY. And again, Allah is indeed the MOST merciful as it is one of his attributes--"ArRaheem." So this is something you must get straight in your head first. As a Muslim you absolutely cannot consider Allah as less than that. You have no option in that regard. Your opinion of what is fair and unfair is based solely on the perspective of this world. You do not know about the wider scope of things.

Secondly, if you do not pass the exams successfully, will you EVER become or be accepted as a doctor? Even after 1000 or a billion years? No.

This is the life. Allah gave us this life as a test. We chose this test, and when the results are in that is your final destination. So because this life is so short you can say it is easy while others say it is difficult. It's a bit of both, but for every difficulty Allah gives us compensation, and for every sin, there is a way to repent, and when something good happens to us we have to remember Allah for the blessing and remember that our blessings are also a test. Islam describes in detail what the hellfire is and what jannah is. He tells us exactly how to avoid hellfire and how to enter jannah. If someone rejects Islam, causes fitnah for others, insults people, oppresses them, kills them, insults Allah, and feels elated when Muslims or anyone in general loses their faith in Allah, and dies so defiantly against this religion or anything good in this world, then they are in every sense and definition, the inhabitants of hellfire. But again, that's for Allah to decide in the end.
Great post!!
Just have something to add.
We have chosen to participate in this test personally:

Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant. Quran (Al-`Ahzab - 72)

But realize that this test is not for Allah to examine whether you are rightful or not. He already knows the intentions you will have in your lifetime and the choices you will make.
Allah is the only one who knows the future.
This test is for you and for you alone. It’s purpose is only to record your deeds.
For example:
Suppose we did not get this test.
One day, Allah takes you and throws you in Jahannam…just like that!
Your obvious reaction will be like: “why? What did I do to deserve this?”
Allahs reply would be something like “because I know you better than yourself”
But you would not understand this answer. For you, it will look unfair.
By taking this test you are making your very self as a witness of your deeds.

Second, Allah is so merciful, that he made Jahannam almost impossible to enter.
For every good deed planned and executed you will get multiple credits.
For every bad deed planned but not executed you will get credits.
For every bad deed planned and executed you will get one sin, but only if you do not regret it and make tawbaah within x time (do not know this exactly)
If you have imaan in your heart with the weight of a mustard seed, your final destination is Jannah.

So you must do a lot wrong if you want to end up in Jahannam.
For what I know, both Jannah and Jahannam are eternal. Once entered, you will never leave.
People with Imaan who have done a lot of wrong, will be punished severely for their sins until they have no more sins and will enter Jannah for eternity.
People with no Imaan who have lived a good life, will be rewarded generously for their good deeds, until they have no more good deeds, and will enter Jahannam for eternity.
Your grave can be a garden of Jannah or a pit of Jahannam for this purpose but it is not the real thing.
The eternal Jannah or Jahannam is only accessible after Judgement day when you have to cross the Sirat Bridge.
So it just boils down to believing or not believing.

Last but not least, you cannot imagine how mercifull Allah is. So, serving 70 years, and get rewarded for eternity may sounds unlogical to you, but then again…Allahs wisdom and mercifulness is beyond our grasp of understanding.
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'Abd-al Latif
11-14-2017, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Ssajjad
worshipping allah for lifetime , and then going jannah for eternity, how does it makes sense because lifetime is like 70-80 years and its nothing compared to eternity , i mean like lets assume on of you have entered jannah , 10000000000 billion years have passed , and then think again , now you are in jannah for that many years and think of this life , its already a long time, my question is , does it makes sense that allah will give you so much in return by just worshipping him for like 70-80 or even 90 years,

what about the people of the hellfire, what about them , is their punishment unfair, sure they do not deserve jannah , sure they dont deserve forgiveness, but allah is most merciful and most forgiving , right, so why not just end these people of hellfire , after like 10000 years of punishment , thats alot isnt it , so why allah says they will burn forever meaning more than 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000 billion years , but he can just end them after the punishment so to make it fair ,
In the United Kingdom (and probably most - if not all - other places on Earth) you start high school at the age of 13 and complete it at the age of 16 but success in school benefits you for the rest of your life on Earth i.e. 60-80+ years. Does that make sense? Has anyone ever asked you to resit your maths class once you've passed it?

This life is a test. If you pass it then your eternal reward is paradise and the same is true for the opposite. That's the deal.
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OmAbdullah
11-14-2017, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi
A belief in no hereafter makes no sense

Say there's a good guy, prays fasts and gives in charity. Lives a life of hardship but remains firm When he dies nothing just a hole in the ground

Say there's a wicked man kills rapes steals and when he dies nothing just a hole in the ground

I would argue if you believe in a creator a belief in the hereafter is the next logical step as this wordly life is insufficient as a reward or a punishment

As for your question about how eternity in hellfire is fair. Are you really going to question the justice of the most supreme of judges? Know that whatever they recieved they have earned khalas

Jazaak-Allaho Khera.
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