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ChosenTCO
01-23-2018, 06:33 AM
Assalamu alaykom.

Sorry if this thread and topic was suppose to be created and posted in a specific tab, but im kinda new here so forgive me if im not posting this in the right place :p. Anyways ... i recently saw a thread/discussion regarding image making and dogs. I saw a lot of people referring to this hadith that takes about image makers being asked to breath life into their drawings/sculptures and having one of the most severe punishments of the day of judgement. I was shocked and refused to believe that this is the actual meaning of the hathid. Many people are taking the literal translation of the hadith and applying it to todays language. I honestly believe that this is not the real meaning of it. From what i can understand is that this hadith is directed at people who are intentionally trying to imitate Allah's actions of creation as a form of challenge, NOT art! Yet most of the artists and drawers of today are not practicing their talents as means to challenge the creator, instead they are doing it to express their feelings and emotions through drawing (drawing images of beings with expressions that reflect the drawers feelings). So why would Allah ever punish people for such innocent actions or causes? Why would these innocent artists be some of the most severely punished people on the day of judgement? Despite the fact that some of them are muslims who believe in Allah, while others who do not believe in Allah but dont draw are less punished? This seems very unfair to me.

I personally believe that this hadith is intended for people who are actually trying to imitate God's creation by any means as a form of challenge or trying to imply that Gods importance is no longer needed. Means such as genetic clowning, Artificial intelligence and yes, even drawing as means to challenge The creator. After all, in islam, we and our actions are judged based on our intent and whats in our hearts, and believe me, a lot of the drawers of today do not intend to challenge Allah when they draw or sculpt. Instead they intend to express themselves to the world through their drawings.

What are your opinions on this guys and what parts of my opinion did you agree or disagreed with? Let me know if my understand is incorrect because im willin to listen and grow my understanding.
My Allah bless us all with useful knowledge and good health.
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Ümit
01-23-2018, 08:16 AM
I partially agree with you. I also think that this hadith is directed at people who are intentionally trying to imitate Allah's actions of creation as a form of challange...
art may or may not be a part of that. The artist may just express his feelings, but the painting or statue is still there after the artists death. and if it was a uccesfull artist...this painting or statue eventually may get objects of worship later in time...so, somewhere I understand that that can be prohibited.

but still...Humans are developing and learning...we need books with images for our children to show them what different animals looks like...we need images for biologists to distuinguish the different species of animals...they do research and take pictures of unknown species.
children make snowmen to play...not to worship...there is no danger of worshipping a snowman, a gingerbreadman, some pluche animal or other childrens toy.

Is there any fatwa on this?
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Ishaaq
01-23-2018, 09:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
Assalamu alaykom.

Sorry if this thread and topic was suppose to be created and posted in a specific tab, but im kinda new here so forgive me if im not posting this in the right place :p. Anyways ... i recently saw a thread/discussion regarding image making and dogs. I saw a lot of people referring to this hadith that takes about image makers being asked to breath life into their drawings/sculptures and having one of the most severe punishments of the day of judgement. I was shocked and refused to believe that this is the actual meaning of the hathid. Many people are taking the literal translation of the hadith and applying it to todays language. I honestly believe that this is not the real meaning of it. From what i can understand is that this hadith is directed at people who are intentionally trying to imitate Allah's actions of creation as a form of challenge, NOT art! Yet most of the artists and drawers of today are not practicing their talents as means to challenge the creator, instead they are doing it to express their feelings and emotions through drawing (drawing images of beings with expressions that reflect the drawers feelings). So why would Allah ever punish people for such innocent actions or causes? Why would these innocent artists be some of the most severely punished people on the day of judgement? Despite the fact that some of them are muslims who believe in Allah, while others who do not believe in Allah but dont draw are less punished? This seems very unfair to me.

I personally believe that this hadith is intended for people who are actually trying to imitate God's creation by any means as a form of challenge or trying to imply that Gods importance is no longer needed. Means such as genetic clowning, Artificial intelligence and yes, even drawing as means to challenge The creator. After all, in islam, we and our actions are judged based on our intent and whats in our hearts, and believe me, a lot of the drawers of today do not intend to challenge Allah when they draw or sculpt. Instead they intend to express themselves to the world through their drawings.

What are your opinions on this guys and what parts of my opinion did you agree or disagreed with? Let me know if my understand is incorrect because im willin to listen and grow my understanding.
My Allah bless us all with useful knowledge and good health.
Whatever the merits of your argument, the fact remains that image-making of animate beings is strictly forbidden. This is a statutory law and there is no exception based on intention. There is, however, room for your interpretation that the punishment should fit the crime, and of course, punishment is calibrated to be contingent to intention.

But there is no room to argue that image making itself may be permitted. Of course there is legitimate disagreement over photography, video, and non-static imagery. But there is absolutely no way it can be argued that hanging a painting of someone in your house or having a statue of some animal, even if just for decoration, is permitted in Shari'a.
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