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00001001
02-25-2018, 06:13 PM
As I was talking with my mother about marriage, the topic of requirements popped up. My mother said she never would dare to search for a wife for me, as I haven't finished my education yet, still need to find a job and don't even have a house. This got me thinking. If women only want to get married to men who "have it all", why should I not divorce my future wife if I don't find her beautiful anymore? My mom angrily responded that those two situations are completely different. But are they really?

How do you think about divorce?

Edit:
To clarify, this is just a hypothetical question. To further clarify, the question is if the two scenario's are the same and if you agree/disagree on it.

Edit:
It seems some people still don't properly understand the question. So I'll rephrase it: "Is it fair for a men to divorce his wife for shallow reasons, if the women had shallow requirements (high mahr etc. etc.) when they got married."
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Misbah-Abd
02-25-2018, 06:57 PM
Sometimes divorce is necessary if it is going to involve fitnah and be a cause of weak iman. Unfortunately, we live in times where both spouses usually have to work to have a decent standard of living with the high costs of food, rents and other necessities with wages not really keeping up. Traditional marriages in the West are becoming extinct. Secondly, you don't have your mother dictate who you marry. It's your choice and the bottom line is you are going to be the one that wakes up to your wife every morning so it's best that the choice was 100% yours.
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azc
02-25-2018, 07:08 PM
I think you are the first person who is thinking to divorce his wife before marriage.
Reply

Alamgir
02-25-2018, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I think you are the first person who is thinking to divorce his wife before marriage.
Asalamu Alaikum

:D
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00001001
02-25-2018, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I think you are the first person who is thinking to divorce his wife before marriage.
It was just a hypothetical question, no need to respond like that.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
Sometimes divorce is necessary if it is going to involve fitnah and be a cause of weak iman. Unfortunately, we live in times where both spouses usually have to work to have a decent standard of living with the high costs of food, rents and other necessities with wages not really keeping up. Traditional marriages in the West are becoming extinct. Secondly, you don't have your mother dictate who you marry. It's your choice and the bottom line is you are going to be the one that wakes up to your wife every morning so it's best that the choice was 100% yours.
The premise of the question was not if my mother dictates who I am going to marry (she is not, just helping me), the premise of the question was if the two scenario's are the same and if you personally agree or disagree with it.
Reply

Alamgir
02-25-2018, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
As I was talking with my mother about marriage, the topic of requirements popped up. My mother said she never would dare to search for a wife for me, as I haven't finished my education yet, still need to find a job and don't even have a house. This got me thinking. If women only want to get married to men who "have it all", why should I not divorce my future wife if I don't find her beautiful anymore? My mom angrily responded that those two situations are completely different. But are they really?

How do you think about divorce?
Asalamu Alaikum

You need to be able to provide for your wife before you marry her. If along the way you develop some financial struggles, she has no right to leave you, but you also have no right to leave her if she becomes less attractive. All you can do is tell her to become more attractive somehow (make her lose weight, wear nicer clothing at home, etc), but don't be a hypocrite and end up as some tub of lard while begging her to be the most beautiful woman in the solar system. You should make the effort to be attractive to her as well. Also, becoming less attractive does kinda come with age, and can't always be controlled. So don't reprimand her for things such as looking older (she can't really control that).

If you are still attractive to her, and she just doesn't make the effort to be just as attractive to you (provided her un-attractiveness is due to something she can control), tell her you're getting a 2nd wife. That will make her pull her socks up. If it doesn't, go ahead and do it. You'll now have a brand new attractive wife (but make sure you can provide for both of them and spend equal time with both of them too).

Problem solved.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by 00001001
As I was talking with my mother about marriage, the topic of requirements popped up. My mother said she never would dare to search for a wife for me, as I haven't finished my education yet, still need to find a job and don't even have a house. This got me thinking. If women only want to get married to men who "have it all", why should I not divorce my future wife if I don't find her beautiful anymore? My mom angrily responded that those two situations are completely different. But are they really?

How do you think about divorce?
Asalamu Alaikum

You need to be able to provide for your wife before you marry her. If along the way you develop some financial struggles, she has no right to leave you, but you also have no right to leave her if she becomes less attractive. All you can do is tell her to become more attractive somehow (make her lose weight, wear nicer clothing at home, etc), but don't be a hypocrite and end up as some tub of lard while begging her to be the most beautiful woman in the solar system. You should make the effort to be attractive to her as well. Also, becoming less attractive does kinda come with age, and can't always be controlled. So don't reprimand her for things such as looking older (she can't really control that).

If you are still attractive to her, and she just doesn't make the effort to be just as attractive to you (provided her un-attractiveness is due to something she can control), tell her you're getting a 2nd wife. That will make her pull her socks up. If it doesn't, go ahead and do it. You'll now have a brand new attractive wife (but make sure you can provide for both of them and spend equal time with both of them too).

Problem solved.
Reply

azc
02-25-2018, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
Asalamu Alaikum:D
:wa: your location is milky way... ...?
Reply

Alamgir
02-25-2018, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by azc
:wa: your location is milky way... ...?
Where else is would I be? Andromeda?
Reply

00001001
02-25-2018, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
Asalamu Alaikum

You need to be able to provide for your wife before you marry her. If along the way you develop some financial struggles, she has no right to leave you, but you also have no right to leave her if she becomes less attractive. All you can do is tell her to become more attractive somehow (make her lose weight, wear nicer clothing at home, etc), but don't be a hypocrite and end up as some tub of lard while begging her to be the most beautiful woman in the solar system. You should make the effort to be attractive to her as well. Also, becoming less attractive does kinda come with age, and can't always be controlled. So don't reprimand her for things such as looking older (she can't really control that).

If you are still attractive to her, and she just doesn't make the effort to be just as attractive to you (provided her un-attractiveness is due to something she can control), tell her you're getting a 2nd wife. That will make her pull her socks up. If it doesn't, go ahead and do it. You'll now have a brand new attractive wife (but make sure you can provide for both of them and spend equal time with both of them too).

Problem solved.

- - - Updated - - -



Asalamu Alaikum

You need to be able to provide for your wife before you marry her. If along the way you develop some financial struggles, she has no right to leave you, but you also have no right to leave her if she becomes less attractive. All you can do is tell her to become more attractive somehow (make her lose weight, wear nicer clothing at home, etc), but don't be a hypocrite and end up as some tub of lard while begging her to be the most beautiful woman in the solar system. You should make the effort to be attractive to her as well. Also, becoming less attractive does kinda come with age, and can't always be controlled. So don't reprimand her for things such as looking older (she can't really control that).

If you are still attractive to her, and she just doesn't make the effort to be just as attractive to you (provided her un-attractiveness is due to something she can control), tell her you're getting a 2nd wife. That will make her pull her socks up. If it doesn't, go ahead and do it. You'll now have a brand new attractive wife (but make sure you can provide for both of them and spend equal time with both of them too).

Problem solved.
I completely agree with you, however, it seems I haven't made the question really clear and have updated it just now.
Reply

Alamgir
02-25-2018, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
I completely agree with you, however, it seems I haven't made the question really clear and have updated it just now.
Okay.

They are of similar importance, but I wouldn't say the same. In my opinion, being able to provide is more important as that's an objective measure, where as beauty is far more subjective.

I also don't agree with divorcing someone just because they are no longer attractive or because they are going through financial struggles. Unless the love is totally gone, you have tried everything to rekindle your romance, it's the woman who doesn't love the man (the guy can just get a 2nd wife if it's the other way around so no excuse for him), and no kids need to be raised, no divorce should take place just because the marriage is loveless. As for financial struggles, the wife should only leave the husband if he makes no effort to fix his monetary woes and they are pretty serious.
Reply

azc
02-25-2018, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
It was just a hypothetical question, no need to respond like that.- - - Updated - - -The premise of the question was not if my mother dictates who I am going to marry (she is not, just helping me), the premise of the question was if the two scenario's are the same and if you personally agree or disagree with it.
also no need to put any hypothetical question then....
Reply

Misbah-Abd
02-25-2018, 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
- - - Updated - - -



The premise of the question was not if my mother dictates who I am going to marry (she is not, just helping me), the premise of the question was if the two scenario's are the same and if you personally agree or disagree with it.
You can divorce her if you don't find her attractive to want to be with her anymore, but give her that same right if she feels the same way about you. Look, life is too short to be in an unwanted marriage. So therefore, I agree.
Reply

A786
02-25-2018, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
Asalamu Alaikum

You need to be able to provide for your wife before you marry her. If along the way you develop some financial struggles, she has no right to leave you, but you also have no right to leave her if she becomes less attractive. All you can do is tell her to become more attractive somehow (make her lose weight, wear nicer clothing at home, etc), but don't be a hypocrite and end up as some tub of lard while begging her to be the most beautiful woman in the solar system. You should make the effort to be attractive to her as well. Also, becoming less attractive does kinda come with age, and can't always be controlled. So don't reprimand her for things such as looking older (she can't really control that).

If you are still attractive to her, and she just doesn't make the effort to be just as attractive to you (provided her un-attractiveness is due to something she can control), tell her you're getting a 2nd wife. That will make her pull her socks up. If it doesn't, go ahead and do it. You'll now have a brand new attractive wife (but make sure you can provide for both of them and spend equal time with both of them too).

Problem solved.

- - - Updated - - -



Asalamu Alaikum

You need to be able to provide for your wife before you marry her. If along the way you develop some financial struggles, she has no right to leave you, but you also have no right to leave her if she becomes less attractive. All you can do is tell her to become more attractive somehow (make her lose weight, wear nicer clothing at home, etc), but don't be a hypocrite and end up as some tub of lard while begging her to be the most beautiful woman in the solar system. You should make the effort to be attractive to her as well. Also, becoming less attractive does kinda come with age, and can't always be controlled. So don't reprimand her for things such as looking older (she can't really control that).

If you are still attractive to her, and she just doesn't make the effort to be just as attractive to you (provided her un-attractiveness is due to something she can control), tell her you're getting a 2nd wife. That will make her pull her socks up. If it doesn't, go ahead and do it. You'll now have a brand new attractive wife (but make sure you can provide for both of them and spend equal time with both of them too).

Problem solved.
It's really not that easy.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
Asalamu Alaikum

You need to be able to provide for your wife before you marry her. If along the way you develop some financial struggles, she has no right to leave you, but you also have no right to leave her if she becomes less attractive. All you can do is tell her to become more attractive somehow (make her lose weight, wear nicer clothing at home, etc), but don't be a hypocrite and end up as some tub of lard while begging her to be the most beautiful woman in the solar system. You should make the effort to be attractive to her as well. Also, becoming less attractive does kinda come with age, and can't always be controlled. So don't reprimand her for things such as looking older (she can't really control that).

If you are still attractive to her, and she just doesn't make the effort to be just as attractive to you (provided her un-attractiveness is due to something she can control), tell her you're getting a 2nd wife. That will make her pull her socks up. If it doesn't, go ahead and do it. You'll now have a brand new attractive wife (but make sure you can provide for both of them and spend equal time with both of them too).

Problem solved.

- - - Updated - - -



Asalamu Alaikum

You need to be able to provide for your wife before you marry her. If along the way you develop some financial struggles, she has no right to leave you, but you also have no right to leave her if she becomes less attractive. All you can do is tell her to become more attractive somehow (make her lose weight, wear nicer clothing at home, etc), but don't be a hypocrite and end up as some tub of lard while begging her to be the most beautiful woman in the solar system. You should make the effort to be attractive to her as well. Also, becoming less attractive does kinda come with age, and can't always be controlled. So don't reprimand her for things such as looking older (she can't really control that).

If you are still attractive to her, and she just doesn't make the effort to be just as attractive to you (provided her un-attractiveness is due to something she can control), tell her you're getting a 2nd wife. That will make her pull her socks up. If it doesn't, go ahead and do it. You'll now have a brand new attractive wife (but make sure you can provide for both of them and spend equal time with both of them too).

Problem solved.
It's really not that easy.
Reply

Misbah-Abd
02-25-2018, 08:01 PM
Just remember for every perceived shallow reason to divorce your wife, she also has perceived shallow reasons to divorce you, i.e. your unattraction due to baldness, gaining too much weight, erectile dysfunction, etc. So be careful going down that shallow road...
Reply

Scimitar
02-25-2018, 08:37 PM
Reply

*charisma*
02-25-2018, 08:48 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Originally Posted by 00001001
As I was talking with my mother about marriage, the topic of requirements popped up. My mother said she never would dare to search for a wife for me, as I haven't finished my education yet, still need to find a job and don't even have a house.
Curious, but what was your solution to what your mom said?
Reply

Mustafa16
02-25-2018, 09:24 PM
I'm in the same boat, brother, I wish I could get married, but I'm only 18 bordering 19, and haven't finished my degree, don't have a driver's license, don't have a career, (although I'll get my license inshaAllah in about a week), but you know, you have to be pulled to the person first, then build a romance, then build love, and THEN you have to stick with the person even if they develop unattractiveness such as gain of weight, baldness, illness, etc. That's not from the beginning. If the girl already loves you, she'll already stay with you through thick and thin, and the same applies to men. Be careful what you wish for, because we all age, and we all get unattractive and unpleasant, and we all gain weight, attractiveness is the tip of the iceberg, the important part is whether or not 1) you are drawn to the person in the first place 2) you end up falling in love in a halal manner and marrying in a halal manner 3) you have the RESOURCES (through education, I know this is a difficult pill to swallow, but I had to learn, too) and 4) you continue to love each other and have a healthy relationship I know it's hard brother, as one sheikh says, "unless you don't have hormones, we all have desires and fitnah" but the end result is going to be the same, and Allah is with the patient.........try going on a diet to lower libido, try avoiding social media, try online college (some shaikhs saying going to mixed university is haram anyway....i dont blame them.......) try googling the zikr phrase that is equivalent to 6 hours of prayer (in authentic hadeeth), try other zikr phrases as well, just google them, some are more noble than others, try memorizing Allah aza wa jal's 99 names like I am, try getting a job and learning to drive if you have not already done so, to be more self sufficient, but if free mixing is too much work in an islamic organization......but dude i feel your pain, i suffered a lot and i have severe mental illnesses like severe anxiety,, OCD, autism, ADHD that cannot be treated with medication, etc. to make it worse.......we're all in the same boat, but just be patient
Reply

Alamgir
02-25-2018, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by A786
It's really not that easy.
Asalamu Alaikum

I was simplifying it.
Reply

00001001
02-25-2018, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Thanks for the video, learned a couple of things. But it fails it answer my question.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum



Curious, but what was your solution to what your mom said?
You mean reaction?

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I'm in the same boat, brother, I wish I could get married, but I'm only 18 bordering 19, and haven't finished my degree, don't have a driver's license, don't have a career, (although I'll get my license inshaAllah in about a week), but you know, you have to be pulled to the person first, then build a romance, then build love, and THEN you have to stick with the person even if they develop unattractiveness such as gain of weight, baldness, illness, etc. That's not from the beginning. If the girl already loves you, she'll already stay with you through thick and thin, and the same applies to men. Be careful what you wish for, because we all age, and we all get unattractive and unpleasant, and we all gain weight, attractiveness is the tip of the iceberg, the important part is whether or not 1) you are drawn to the person in the first place 2) you end up falling in love in a halal manner and marrying in a halal manner 3) you have the RESOURCES (through education, I know this is a difficult pill to swallow, but I had to learn, too) and 4) you continue to love each other and have a healthy relationship I know it's hard brother, as one sheikh says, "unless you don't have hormones, we all have desires and fitnah" but the end result is going to be the same, and Allah is with the patient.........try going on a diet to lower libido, try avoiding social media, try online college (some shaikhs saying going to mixed university is haram anyway....i dont blame them.......) try googling the zikr phrase that is equivalent to 6 hours of prayer (in authentic hadeeth), try other zikr phrases as well, just google them, some are more noble than others, try memorizing Allah aza wa jal's 99 names like I am, try getting a job and learning to drive if you have not already done so, to be more self sufficient, but if free mixing is too much work in an islamic organization......but dude i feel your pain, i suffered a lot and i have severe mental illnesses like severe anxiety,, OCD, autism, ADHD that cannot be treated with medication, etc. to make it worse.......we're all in the same boat, but just be patient
Akhi, thanks for the tips. But my situation is not like you perceived it to be (Like I said in the initial post, it was a hypothetical question.). It just annoys me that my fellow men (like you) have such a hard time dealing with these things.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by azc
also no need to put any hypothetical question then....
Am I not allowed to ask questions here? Isn't this a forum? Oh sorry, I though this was a forum.
Reply

ChosenTCO
02-26-2018, 07:16 AM
Salam Brother.

Your Mother's response was right in that, these 2 situations are not the same. The reason why its not is because one happens before marriage and one happens after it. However, if you were to compare the 2 cases before marriage it would be 100% ok. But if it was after then it would be 99% wrong (because divorce is still halal under the condition that the situation has become extremely difficult for you to cope with).

When it comes to what each of us wants then to be honest, id highly recommend that each of us look for compatibility and kindness more than anything materialistic you may think of. Because, trust me, if you marry someone that has every materialistic thing you desire but is not compatible with you, you will have a miserable life and wont be able to enjoy anything materialistic from them. In essence, thinking about finding someone that "has it all" is a very dangerous way of thinking. Regardless, if the woman feels like that as a must then we should never force her to marry someone she doesnt want.

Its just that, in islam, it does say that the man has to provide for the wife, but in this day and age, this is usually accomplished after the guy has turned 30. And we all know that by then, the guy or girl would have probably done something haram by then. This is why the umma has got to either fix this problem in our society and allow young men to work and not focus on their studies so much, or find an exception to the rule of our society where the man is allowed to marry a woman without being actively working and get a chance to elevate his academic status. But when the umma leave the 2 paths of halal filled with obstacles , you will definitely fine some going through the haram path to reach what they want.

I ask Allah to be merciful with his creation and not to put us through any trials or tribulations that would destroy us. Aamean.
Reply

Ümit
02-26-2018, 07:44 AM
Originally Posted by 00001001
As I was talking with my mother about marriage, the topic of requirements popped up. My mother said she never would dare to search for a wife for me, as I haven't finished my education yet, still need to find a job and don't even have a house. This got me thinking. If women only want to get married to men who "have it all", why should I not divorce my future wife if I don't find her beautiful anymore? My mom angrily responded that those two situations are completely different. But are they really?

How do you think about divorce?

Edit:
To clarify, this is just a hypothetical question. To further clarify, the question is if the two scenario's are the same and if you agree/disagree on it.
If the two scenario's here were:
1, women only want to marry someone who has a good job and his own house...
2, divorce the wife when she is not beautiful anymore...

then I would say the two scenario's are pretty the same. both shallow, and only looking at the outside.
Reality is different.

Women do not want that. that is nonsence...they do want certainty though. If you are still studying, but maybe almost finished...or you are looking for a job...and it looks like you are stable and can support her, then I think there should not be a problem.

otherwise they might be interested but maybe not yet get married...because it might not always be the most wise idea to do.

on the other side, you wanting to get married just because she is beautifull is pretty stupid. but I guess you are still young and you will understand the value of someone's personality after you married and divorced a -----. (sounds hard I am sorry for this, but I am just saying to be carefull here.)

I know this is a hypothetical question, but I just wanted to point that out.
Reply

Scimitar
02-26-2018, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
Thanks for the video, learned a couple of things. But it fails it answer my question
he does answer your question, around 8 different times by relating that you cannot divorce for silly reasons. And let’s be fair, your reason was kinda dumb!
Reply

Zzz_
02-26-2018, 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
As I was talking with my mother about marriage, the topic of requirements popped up. My mother said she never would dare to search for a wife for me, as I haven't finished my education yet, still need to find a job and don't even have a house. This got me thinking. If women only want to get married to men who "have it all", why should I not divorce my future wife if I don't find her beautiful anymore? My mom angrily responded that those two situations are completely different. But are they really?

How do you think about divorce?

Edit:
To clarify, this is just a hypothetical question. To further clarify, the question is if the two scenario's are the same and if you agree/disagree on it.
A person may marry a woman for 4 reasons.

1. her deen
2. her beauty
3. her wealth
4. her status

So she is bringing one or more of those things to the table. She already has it and is being approached because of that.

A man is approved of marriageble material when he is able to afford a family. Regardless of one having a job or education or what not, if he can provide for her at the same level as her father then he is qualified to get married. you getting an education and a job so you can provide for her at the same level as her father is what you need to bring to the table. She already is at the table with what you want, are you at the table with what she wants or are you whining about it?
Reply

00001001
02-26-2018, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
he does answer your question, around 8 different times by relating that you cannot divorce for silly reasons. And let’s be fair, your reason was kinda dumb!
While the video clearly made it known that indeed you cannot divorce for silly reasons, it fails to answer if it would be fair for the husband to divorce his wife if the wife marries him for shallow reaons. Agree that it is a dumb reasons, but in my eye's it is fair as every action has a reaction.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Zzz_
A person may marry a woman for 4 reasons.

1. her deen
2. her beauty
3. her wealth
4. her status

So she is bringing one or more of those things to the table. She already has it and is being approached because of that.

A man is approved of marriageble material when he is able to afford a family. Regardless of one having a job or education or what not, if he can provide for her at the same level as her father then he is qualified to get married. you getting an education and a job so you can provide for her at the same level as her father is what you need to bring to the table. She already is at the table with what you want, are you at the table with what she wants or are you whining about it?
Oh boy oh boy, where do I start...

1. Please explain how Mohammed s.a.s. married a rich women even though he was poor.
2. I'm not questioning if a women shouldn't have requirements. The question is if it's fair to divorce a women for shallow reasons (beauty), if her requirements were shallow (money).
3. No need to acuse me of whining.
4. Please refrain from posting in the future if you can't even understand the question properly.
Reply

Zzz_
02-26-2018, 09:39 PM
Oh boy oh boy, where do I start...

1. Please explain how Mohammed s.a.s. married a rich women even though he was poor.
2. I'm not questioning if a women shouldn't have requirements. The question is if it's fair to divorce a women for shallow reasons (beauty), if her requirements were shallow (money).
3. No need to acuse me of whining.
4. Please refrain from posting in the future if you can't even understand the question properly.
Bro listen,

A man marries a woman for a 4 reasons as listed previously, that is a hadith. There may be exceptions to that but for the most part that's how the world goes.

The prophet (S) had a job and was able to provide for a family whether she is rich or not. Even if you marry a millionaire, you still have to provide for her. So whether you can provide or not is the question here.

A requirement of marriage in Islam is that the person is financially able to support a family. If that means you need to get a degree and a job then that's what you have to do. You have to do the minimum of being able to afford a family. So you have to come to that level first before you even qualify to be married in Islam. Otherwise it comes across as nothing more than whining.

So to answer your question, it's that simple.

1. a woman has brought to the table what she has
2. have you brought the minimum required to have her?

Your logic is flawed to begin with. Whether she loses her beauty after marriage or not is same as you getting rich or poor. If you think you can divorce her because she isn't pretty anymore then by the same token she can divorce you if you aren't rich or making as much money.
Reply

Scimitar
02-26-2018, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
While the video clearly made it known that indeed you cannot divorce for silly reasons, it fails to answer if it would be fair for the husband to divorce his wife if the wife marries him for shallow reaons. Agree that it is a dumb reasons, but in my eye's it is fair as every action has a reaction.
The answer is No! All shallow reasons are unjustified and silly, because they are shallow -

If you're having to ask these ridiculous questions, then you have clearly not matured enough to be married!!!
Reply

*charisma*
02-26-2018, 11:31 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Would you marry a very extremely physically unattractive with the hopes that she will become your dream girl? The reality is you probably will never even come NEAR a woman like that.

The same reasoning applies to why some women will not marry a man who has no money, job, home, etc. The reality is BEFORE marriage, there is absolutely no time wasted on anyone, no sacrifices made, no emotional bond, no commitments, and no experience to know any differently than what they were brought up in. So women have their views on what marriage would look like to them, and they have the exclusive right (same as men), to keep their options open and wait for someone who has all those things they desire. Why should a girl who lives happily with her family, and has everything taken care of, choose a life which is less than? This is a valid question. You have to present something which is far greater than what she already has and I don't mean just materialistically. You also need to take in account that a man can see a woman and know immediately by physical appearance whether or not he will propose to her or if he will be interested. If she's not physically attractive AT ALL, regardless of her personalities and other qualities, would he even think about her? Probably not. So in that aspect, that is where we are equal. Is it a man's responsibility to ask as many of the unattractive women he knows for their hand in marriage? :D Nope. So as women it's not our responsibility to accept every guys proposal if there's a chance there's a better one coming along.

Now for your actual question, how come your mind jumps to divorce? How does divorce help you if your issue is to get married to prevent fitnah and fulfill the feelings you have? You'll just be starting from square 1 again. Divorce isn't a solution to anything unless if being divorced prevents you from a great fitnah or say, Allah forbid, the wife cheated on you or commits kufr. Those are VALID reasons. After marriage, there is the hope that you will build some sort of life together, gain experience, have an emotional connection, attraction etc. so there's much more on the table there with divorce than there is when presenting yourself for marriage. If those things are absolutely non-existent, then sure, get divorced. If her beauty is what's keeping you there, then you probably shouldn't get married to begin with because it's inevitable that we all lose beauty in the end. Both men and women have this fear for divorce, that when they get married, this is the notion that they build their marriage upon. Marriage has to be build on longevity, and as Muslims we know what lasts and what doesn't. Maybe that's the point you're trying to make with your question but we need those initial things that "hooks" us to each other, however what keeps it going are the everlasting substances far beyond those superficial things.

Your mom's reply is kind of a generalization though. I personally don't believe it's important for a man to have a college degree, but he should be educated, smart, intellectual. I don't believe he needs to be wealthy, but he should be financially stable and hardworking to never need the help of anyone else. Why's that important? Because I'm your responsibility now. If another man needs to help you, I should've just married him :D. He doesn't need to be a model, but I gotta tolerate your face in the morning and laugh with you ;D You don't have to have a house, but I don't want to live with your parents. You are a college student, and I am as well? We can work upward and go forward together and build our future together. Get the point? You need to give an alternative to what you don't have, otherwise if you're just like "accept me as I am and be hopeful" it's not going to fly. They don't know who you are. You are a list of facts, so there's nothing there to build the hope on.

You deserve a chance, even if she won't like you..you deserve to get to a point where you can meet a girl and see her face to face because we are Muslims and our trust is in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala in the end. With everything I've said, in the end a girl can throw all of that out the window because Allah opens her heart and she meets someone who is worth more than the superficial, generalized, stereotypical descriptions of what her husband should be, simply because Allah destined her to be with this man. He wrote their names together before the world was created. And in some crazy fashion, their pathways to marriage is made easy despite all of the odds against them. Maybe explain that to your mom and let her BELIEVE IN YOU. A lot of times moms can tell when their son is mature enough to be with someone and sometimes they just dont think he's mature, hardworking, or feel reassured about you caring for someone else, etc. They should STILL try, but you should also try harder to convince her that you have qualities she will be extremely proud to brag about to others :D

I don't want brothers to lose hope and grow bitter just because it's not working out. There's a reason his wife is not there yet, but you have to be proactive as well in all other aspects of your life. Hypothetical questions can give us some insight and be helpful, but they are no where near reality because we each have a fate written for us and it often includes events we can never predict for ourselves.


SHORT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: NO, it's NOT fair.
Reply

00001001
02-26-2018, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum

Would you marry a very extremely physically unattractive with the hopes that she will become your dream girl? The reality is you probably will never even come NEAR a woman like that.

The same reasoning applies to why some women will not marry a man who has no money, job, home, etc. The reality is BEFORE marriage, there is absolutely no time wasted on anyone, no sacrifices made, no emotional bond, no commitments, and no experience to know any differently than what they were brought up in. So women have their views on what marriage would look like to them, and they have the exclusive right (same as men), to keep their options open and wait for someone who has all those things they desire. Why should a girl who lives happily with her family, and has everything taken care of, choose a life which is less than? This is a valid question. You have to present something which is far greater than what she already has and I don't mean just materialistically. You also need to take in account that a man can see a woman and know immediately by physical appearance whether or not he will propose to her or if he will be interested. If she's not physically attractive AT ALL, regardless of her personalities and other qualities, would he even think about her? Probably not. So in that aspect, that is where we are equal. Is it a man's responsibility to ask as many of the unattractive women he knows for their hand in marriage? :D Nope. So as women it's not our responsibility to accept every guys proposal if there's a chance there's a better one coming along.

Now for your actual question, how come your mind jumps to divorce? How does divorce help you if your issue is to get married to prevent fitnah and fulfill the feelings you have? You'll just be starting from square 1 again. Divorce isn't a solution to anything unless if being divorced prevents you from a great fitnah or say, Allah forbid, the wife cheated on you or commits kufr. Those are VALID reasons. After marriage, there is the hope that you will build some sort of life together, gain experience, have an emotional connection, attraction etc. so there's much more on the table there with divorce than there is when presenting yourself for marriage. If those things are absolutely non-existent, then sure, get divorced. If her beauty is what's keeping you there, then you probably shouldn't get married to begin with because it's inevitable that we all lose beauty in the end. Both men and women have this fear for divorce that when they get married, this is the notion that they build their marriage upon. Marriage has to be build on longevity, and as Muslims we know what lasts and what doesn't. Maybe that's the point you're trying to make with your question but we need those initial things that "hooks" us to each other, however what keeps it going are the everlasting substances far beyond those superficial things.

Your mom's reply is kind of a generalization though. I personally don't believe it's important for a man to have a college degree, but he should be educated, smart, intellectual. I don't believe he needs to be wealthy, but he should be financially stable and hardworking to never need the help of anyone else. Why's that important? Because I'm your responsibility now. If another man needs to help you, I should've just married him :D. He doesn't need to be a model, but I gotta tolerate your face in the morning and laugh with you ;D You don't have to have a house, but I don't want to live with your parents. You are a college student, and I am as well? We can work upward and go forward together and build our future together. Get the point? You need to give an alternative to what you don't have, otherwise if you're just like "accept me as I am and be hopeful" it's not going to fly. They don't know who you are. You are a list of facts, so there's nothing there to build the hope on.

You deserve a chance, even if she won't like you..you deserve to get to a point where you can meet a girl and see her face to face because we are Muslims and our trust is in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala in the end. With everything I've said, in the end a girl can throw all of that out the window because Allah opens her heart and she meets someone who is worth more than the superficial, generalized, stereotypical descriptions of what her husband should be, simply because Allah destined her to be with this man. He wrote their names together before the world was created. And in some crazy fashion, their pathways to marriage is made easy despite all of the odds against them. Maybe explain that to your mom and let her BELIEVE IN YOU. A lot of times moms can tell when their son is mature enough to be with someone and sometimes they just dont think he's mature, hardworking, or reassuring of caring for someone else, etc. They should STILL try, but you should also try harder to convince her that you have qualities she will be extremely proud to brag about to others :D

I don't want brothers to lose hope and grow bitter just because it's not working out. There's a reason his wife is not there yet, but you have to be proactive as well in all other aspects of your life. Hypothetical questions can give us some insight and be helpful, but they are no where near reality because we each have a fate written for us and it often includes events we can never predict for ourselves.


SHORT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: NO, it's NOT fair.
You are the only one that actually made some valid points. Thanks for that.
Reply

Scimitar
02-26-2018, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
You are the only one that actually made some valid points. Thanks for that.
As long as someone can get through to your unreasonable self - its a success.

But do tell us, where you stand now!! :D
Reply

*charisma*
02-26-2018, 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by 00001001
You are the only one that actually made some valid points. Thanks for that.
You're very welcome!

Originally Posted by Scimitar
As long as someone can get through to your unreasonable self - its a success.

But do tell us, where you stand now!!
Who cares, I deserve a prize or something :nervous: :D

And it's too cold for ice cream so don't even..
Reply

00001001
02-27-2018, 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
As long as someone can get through to your unreasonable self - its a success.

But do tell us, where you stand now!! :D
I changed it to "never marry a shallow women".
Reply

xboxisdead
02-27-2018, 01:07 AM
My view in Divorce is :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up :thumbs_up:thumbs_up!!!!

Reasons why I divorce?

A) A nagging wife.
B) An ungrateful wife.
C) A domineering wife.
D) A verbal/physically abusive wife.
E) A wife that listen to her parents over me and I have to please her and her parents, while in reverse I will be lucky if I get a pat on the head after a year of being treated like a crap.
F) A wife who denies intimacy with me or use intimacy as form of controlling my behavior or she getting what she wants.
G) It is all about her and it is double standard.
H) She demand more money, demand, demand this and demand that and demand this and demand that.
I) She abort the child without my consent or say in the matter.
J) She uses the law of the West against me.
K) If I have children she disrespect me infront of the children and lower my value in front of the kids. I would divorce her and disappear in thin air never to be seen again.
L) She does never stop talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking.....
M) She perform chinese torture into me by repeating things over and over and over and over until I break.
N) She throws items at me or threaten to call the police for false rape or physical abuse allegation if I don't things she wants me to do.
O) She is a feminist or believe in equality or feminist ideology.
P) She believes all men are rapist, evil, bad, idiots, buffon and if there are no women around men will be going around and around drooling like bunch of dogs or chasing their own tail.
Q) There is a constant tug of war at home to who wears the pants.
R) She have zero respect of me.
S) She believes only mothers should be raising children or if I raise children that is not done by a woman's perspective or mother's perspective but a man's perspective or father's perspective she will devalue my role and dismiss my raising of the children, fight with me or have to be done her way.
T) She no longer looks beautiful for me, she cut her hair short, gain 500 pounds and let herself go.
U) If I tell her not to leave the house for whatever reason or not to go certain places for whatever reason or tell her not to bring these people in the house or her family and she still does it..I know then and there a divorce is imminent.

This is why I love divorce! I really do love divorce! If any of the above mentioned happened just one...BANG divorce!! No debate or discussion! I never return back to the same person after a divorce even if she did go 360 degree and the best of person for life, I will never go back. Ones I divorce, I divorce! Finish for me.
Reply

Misbah-Abd
02-27-2018, 01:20 AM
You missed one...She's a farter. :giggling:
Reply

xboxisdead
02-27-2018, 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
You missed one...She's a farter. :giggling:
AHAHAHAHAH!!!;D;D;D;D:lol::lol::giggling::giggling :

Nah, I don't mind it. Cause I want to be able to fart on my own peace at my own home and if I have kids I want them to fart on their own peace as well. Of course, I will go jokingly comment lol
Reply

azc
02-27-2018, 06:21 AM
Originally Posted by xboxisdead
AHAHAHAHAH!!!;D;D;D;D:lol::lol::giggling::giggling :

Nah, I don't mind it. Cause I want to be able to fart on my own peace at my own home and if I have kids I want them to fart on their own peace as well. Of course, I will go jokingly comment lol
and it will be an ideal family...
Reply

xboxisdead
02-27-2018, 07:02 AM
Originally Posted by azc
and it will be an ideal family...
-- falls on the floor laughing so hard, pounding fist on the floor - ;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D
Reply

air
02-27-2018, 07:36 AM
:sl:

It's not fair for the one who will become your wife of course.

The requirements is from your mother and not from your future-wife, isn't it? But you force the consequences of your mother requirements to your future-wife.

Think about it, what happen when you find a future-wife that accept you whoever you are? will you still divorce her because she becomes ugly, just because you want a fairness with your mother? do you still think it's fair to your future-wife?

Of course it's fair for just you and your mother.

So at this point your mother is right, it's different think.

But of course you might find woman who wants to marry with someone who has everything, it's her rights, but just for safe, skip her, as in hadith it is better to find a wife who has eeman in her even though she's not beautiful, well if you can find someone who has both it's even better of course.

- - - Updated - - -

:sl:

It's not fair for the one who will become your wife of course.

The requirements is from your mother and not from your future-wife, isn't it? But you force the consequences of your mother requirements to your future-wife.

Think about it, what happen when you find a future-wife that accept you whoever you are? will you still divorce her because she becomes ugly, just because you want a fairness with your mother? do you still think it's fair to your future-wife?

Of course it's fair for just you and your mother.

So at this point your mother is right, it's different think.

But of course you might find woman who wants to marry with someone who has everything, it's her rights, but just for safe, skip her, as in hadith it is better to find a wife who has eeman in her even though she's not beautiful, well if you can find someone who has both it's even better of course.
Reply

Eric H
02-27-2018, 08:08 AM
Greetings and peace be with you 00001001;
My mother said she never would dare to search for a wife for me, as I haven't finished my education yet, still need to find a job and don't even have a house.
About twenty thousand children will die today as a result of grinding poverty and preventable disease. There are about a billion people on Earth living in poverty, so your mums concerns would not be right for these people. However, if you have the ability to have a good education and find a good job, your patience would be rewarded.

If women only want to get married to men who "have it all", why should I not divorce my future wife if I don't find her beautiful anymore?
A beautiful wife is one who adheres to her religion and is faithful to her husband, any other forms of beauty are a bonus;D

Marriage is easy, staying married is a struggle, I can say that after 33 years.

blessings
Eric
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-06-2018, 09:50 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you 00001001;


About twenty thousand children will die today as a result of grinding poverty and preventable disease. There are about a billion people on Earth living in poverty, so your mums concerns would not be right for these people. However, if you have the ability to have a good education and find a good job, your patience would be rewarded.



A beautiful wife is one who adheres to her religion and is faithful to her husband, any other forms of beauty are a bonus;D

Marriage is easy, staying married is a struggle, I can say that after 33 years.

blessings
Eric
" A beautiful wife one who adheres to her religion" bang on point
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-06-2018, 09:53 AM
The thing is, even if you were to marry some super gorgeous model for example, they would still age and lose physical beauty. So what you get a divorce and marry another woman, same happens to her etc. The most important thing is deen, the rest is a bit shallow in my opinion
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-06-2018, 09:53 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum

Would you marry a very extremely physically unattractive with the hopes that she will become your dream girl? The reality is you probably will never even come NEAR a woman like that.

The same reasoning applies to why some women will not marry a man who has no money, job, home, etc. The reality is BEFORE marriage, there is absolutely no time wasted on anyone, no sacrifices made, no emotional bond, no commitments, and no experience to know any differently than what they were brought up in. So women have their views on what marriage would look like to them, and they have the exclusive right (same as men), to keep their options open and wait for someone who has all those things they desire. Why should a girl who lives happily with her family, and has everything taken care of, choose a life which is less than? This is a valid question. You have to present something which is far greater than what she already has and I don't mean just materialistically. You also need to take in account that a man can see a woman and know immediately by physical appearance whether or not he will propose to her or if he will be interested. If she's not physically attractive AT ALL, regardless of her personalities and other qualities, would he even think about her? Probably not. So in that aspect, that is where we are equal. Is it a man's responsibility to ask as many of the unattractive women he knows for their hand in marriage? :D Nope. So as women it's not our responsibility to accept every guys proposal if there's a chance there's a better one coming along.

Now for your actual question, how come your mind jumps to divorce? How does divorce help you if your issue is to get married to prevent fitnah and fulfill the feelings you have? You'll just be starting from square 1 again. Divorce isn't a solution to anything unless if being divorced prevents you from a great fitnah or say, Allah forbid, the wife cheated on you or commits kufr. Those are VALID reasons. After marriage, there is the hope that you will build some sort of life together, gain experience, have an emotional connection, attraction etc. so there's much more on the table there with divorce than there is when presenting yourself for marriage. If those things are absolutely non-existent, then sure, get divorced. If her beauty is what's keeping you there, then you probably shouldn't get married to begin with because it's inevitable that we all lose beauty in the end. Both men and women have this fear for divorce, that when they get married, this is the notion that they build their marriage upon. Marriage has to be build on longevity, and as Muslims we know what lasts and what doesn't. Maybe that's the point you're trying to make with your question but we need those initial things that "hooks" us to each other, however what keeps it going are the everlasting substances far beyond those superficial things.

Your mom's reply is kind of a generalization though. I personally don't believe it's important for a man to have a college degree, but he should be educated, smart, intellectual. I don't believe he needs to be wealthy, but he should be financially stable and hardworking to never need the help of anyone else. Why's that important? Because I'm your responsibility now. If another man needs to help you, I should've just married him :D. He doesn't need to be a model, but I gotta tolerate your face in the morning and laugh with you ;D You don't have to have a house, but I don't want to live with your parents. You are a college student, and I am as well? We can work upward and go forward together and build our future together. Get the point? You need to give an alternative to what you don't have, otherwise if you're just like "accept me as I am and be hopeful" it's not going to fly. They don't know who you are. You are a list of facts, so there's nothing there to build the hope on.

You deserve a chance, even if she won't like you..you deserve to get to a point where you can meet a girl and see her face to face because we are Muslims and our trust is in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala in the end. With everything I've said, in the end a girl can throw all of that out the window because Allah opens her heart and she meets someone who is worth more than the superficial, generalized, stereotypical descriptions of what her husband should be, simply because Allah destined her to be with this man. He wrote their names together before the world was created. And in some crazy fashion, their pathways to marriage is made easy despite all of the odds against them. Maybe explain that to your mom and let her BELIEVE IN YOU. A lot of times moms can tell when their son is mature enough to be with someone and sometimes they just dont think he's mature, hardworking, or feel reassured about you caring for someone else, etc. They should STILL try, but you should also try harder to convince her that you have qualities she will be extremely proud to brag about to others :D

I don't want brothers to lose hope and grow bitter just because it's not working out. There's a reason his wife is not there yet, but you have to be proactive as well in all other aspects of your life. Hypothetical questions can give us some insight and be helpful, but they are no where near reality because we each have a fate written for us and it often includes events we can never predict for ourselves.


SHORT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: NO, it's NOT fair.
Finally someone is being rational here
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-06-2018, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by xboxisdead
My view in Divorce is [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]!!!!

Reasons why I divorce?

A) A nagging wife.
B) An ungrateful wife.
C) A domineering wife.
D) A verbal/physically abusive wife.
E) A wife that listen to her parents over me and I have to please her and her parents, while in reverse I will be lucky if I get a pat on the head after a year of being treated like a crap.
F) A wife who denies intimacy with me or use intimacy as form of controlling my behavior or she getting what she wants.
G) It is all about her and it is double standard.
H) She demand more money, demand, demand this and demand that and demand this and demand that.
I) She abort the child without my consent or say in the matter.
J) She uses the law of the West against me.
K) If I have children she disrespect me infront of the children and lower my value in front of the kids. I would divorce her and disappear in thin air never to be seen again.
L) She does never stop talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and talking.....
M) She perform chinese torture into me by repeating things over and over and over and over until I break.
N) She throws items at me or threaten to call the police for false rape or physical abuse allegation if I don't things she wants me to do.
O) She is a feminist or believe in equality or feminist ideology.
P) She believes all men are rapist, evil, bad, idiots, buffon and if there are no women around men will be going around and around drooling like bunch of dogs or chasing their own tail.
Q) There is a constant tug of war at home to who wears the pants.
R) She have zero respect of me.
S) She believes only mothers should be raising children or if I raise children that is not done by a woman's perspective or mother's perspective but a man's perspective or father's perspective she will devalue my role and dismiss my raising of the children, fight with me or have to be done her way.
T) She no longer looks beautiful for me, she cut her hair short, gain 500 pounds and let herself go.
U) If I tell her not to leave the house for whatever reason or not to go certain places for whatever reason or tell her not to bring these people in the house or her family and she still does it..I know then and there a divorce is imminent.

This is why I love divorce! I really do love divorce! If any of the above mentioned happened just one...BANG divorce!! No debate or discussion! I never return back to the same person after a divorce even if she did go 360 degree and the best of person for life, I will never go back. Ones I divorce, I divorce! Finish for me.
Cool story bro but... Not all feminists are bad my friend and the concept of feminism is good but doesnr really work... So there is no "feminist ideology" really. Since feminisms conceptual idea is about equality the idea of it od say works with islam. However eglatarianism is a better model in my opinion.
Just my two cents
Reply

xboxisdead
03-06-2018, 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
Cool story bro but... Not all feminists are bad my friend and the concept of feminism is good but doesnr really work... So there is no "feminist ideology" really. Since feminisms conceptual idea is about equality the idea of it od say works with islam. However eglatarianism is a better model in my opinion.
Just my two cents
First of all, feminist all of it..the entire ideology of it goes against Islam. It starts right with equality. That in itself goes against Islam 100%. For one thing there is no such thing as equality between two men and they are of the same fruit, so how can there be equality between man and a woman and they are of a two different fruit? Second of all, feminist goes against Quraan 100% and dismisses one of the verses of the Quraan and who believes in the ideology of equality immediately disbelieves in one of the verses of the Quraan and who disbelieves in one of the verses of the Quraan even if it is one letter have disbelieved and no longer a Muslim and who dies in that state will live forever in hellfire like the rest of the disbelievers. Might as well go down on your knees and worship Jesus or worship cross and formulate your own religion since you are no longer a Muslim. You can do whatever you want then, heck rape, kill, murder, steal, lie, have sex left and right and join feminism if you want it doesn't matter..you are going to hellfire. Unless you return back to islam and actually believe 100% in Qura'an and Sunnah and that disbelieve in the concept of equality between man and a woman. It is mentioned in the Qura'an that female and male are not alike, not the same and not equal. Already it is mentioned in the Quraan that male and female are not equal so how can you believe in equality?

Second of all, equality is injustice. It brings injustice to both sexes and Islam is all about justice. With the concept of equality the idea that a man is head of the house hold goes out the window, the woman also should equally drive the bus. Then where is the man's right to have baby on his own and have paradise under the feet of the father as well? If we are seeking equality shouldn't there be equal opportunity for men also to have long life span and ability to have babies too and birth feed as well? Who leads? Is leading done by tossing a coin and who wins in the ton match leads? Equality doesn't work, it is false and injustice.

Look at the day of judgment, if you think there is discrimination here in this world...in the afterlife it is even more severe than here. Would women formulate a rally and group and form their on cult in the afterlife in why some women have lower level of Janna while some men have higher level of Janna? Would there be sword and shield and wage war and go to TV shows and media and fight between the sexes in why some woman are in lower level of Janna while some men are not? Of course the reverse is true, there will be women in higher of level of Janna while there be men in lower level of Janna.

While you follow model I follow Islam and Sunnah. I don't follow some old white man with beard in USA who is trying to figure out what is what and through his methods people try to apply it and it doesn't work,
Reply

00001001
03-07-2018, 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
Cool story bro but... Not all feminists are bad my friend and the concept of feminism is good but doesnr really work... So there is no "feminist ideology" really. Since feminisms conceptual idea is about equality the idea of it od say works with islam. However eglatarianism is a better model in my opinion.
Just my two cents
My bad, I accidentally liked your post. Not sure what you mean with egalitarianism.
Reply

najimuddin
03-07-2018, 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by 00001001
How do you think about divorce?
The 4th selection in the poll of this thread:

What kind of ice cream? I admit that I'm not a fan of all flavors. So buying certain ice cream flavors wouldn't be that easy for me. I'm diabetic too. So I don't eat ice cream anymore either.

What if the ice cream melts before you make a decision?
Reply

xboxisdead
03-07-2018, 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by 00001001
My bad, I accidentally liked your post. Not sure what you mean with egalitarianism.
e·gal·i·tar·i·an·ism
ēˌɡaləˈterēəˌnizəm/Submit
noun
the doctrine that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.
Reply

00001001
03-07-2018, 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by xboxisdead
e·gal·i·tar·i·an·ism
ēˌɡaləˈterēəˌnizəm/Submit
noun
the doctrine that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.
I meant more how she views it.
Reply

Zzz_
03-07-2018, 02:31 AM
Women finally realize feminism has failed

Reply

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