PDA

View Full Version : All about me: depression, love, virginity, loneliness, muslim women, dreams....



Artic090
02-27-2018, 08:48 PM
Dear sisters and brothers,
some of you "know" me and my situation. But i decided to write you all my story, starting from the beginning.

I hope you have got 10 minutes of your lifes to dedicate me.


I've always been an atypical guy compared to Western kids: no drinking, no smoking, no disco, no sex.
During my adolescence I lost all my friends because they loved doing transgressive things, while I was very serious and responsible. Here in Italy if you do not follow the mass they label you as a loser, problematic.

But since I was a young boy I had just a little dream in my heart: to find a good girl, get married and have my happy family. But this is not possible in the Western and Catholic world. In 28 years I have never found the right girl, and when I try to expose my ideals people have always humiliated me... especially Catholic people (women). They say that i need psycologist, that in this world i wont find my right girl because my girl exists only in my head, ad so on.
So I decided to get away from the Catholic community and from God... because God had decided to leave me alone with those people so disreputable. I asked Him such things like "What is wrong on me? Why i cant be happy? Why girl are so corrupted with sex, smoke and alcool? Why nobody believe in my same ideals? Why did you give me birth if there isnt space for me in this world?".
I tell you honestly: if I could give my life to a sick child who is going to die, I would do it willingly. At least i give a smile to a child that surely will be a winner, will realize his dream. I would find peace by dying.

But this summer, while I was working as a volunteer at the hospital, I noticed a Muslim Pakistani girl (she was an interpreter fror pakistani people who live here and cant talk good italian language) who struck me a lot. I had never seen such a beautiful girl, a beauty that I could not even describe. I saw what in Islam is called "Haya" (i dont know if she really was a "haya-girl",but this is the impression I had).
Although I didnt know her (we never talked) I secretly fell madly in love with her. Suddendly i didnt see her at work? Where was she go? Simply: I come to find out that she is already married and that she is two months pregnant, so she stopped working. Death came in my heart.
When I think of her I feel like crying, both because I had the illusion of having a future with her, and because it is the umpteenth demonstration that I can never be happy.

But i still remember the first day i saw her: when i came back home, i started to read information on Pakistan and Islam. A new world has opened up! Finally Islam described the world I have always dreamed of: justice, freedom, hope. And Muslim women were described as I always wanted: no promiscuity, no smoke, no alcohol. Perfect wifes and mothers. I started to dream women as our Maryem or Aisha.

I came back to have more hope and I made peace with God thanking him for introducing me to that Pakistani girl, because thanks to that event I could understand what would be my right path.

I started studying Urdu and The Koran alone, I decided to become a better boy than now.
I have read that many Pakistani fathers do not accept that their daughter get marry an Italian, and this has been an extra stimulus to study everything about Islam, hoping to show that even if I am not a Pakistani by birth, I can be the right boy for their daughters thanks to my sacrifices and my values. Do you remember when that young boy wanted to marry a girl entrusted to the prophet Mohammed? He was poor and unknown ... but the Prophet put him to the test by asking him to recite the Qur'an. In this way He understood that that boy was really the perfect husband for that woman.
And I would like the same to happen to me: I want to show that I am a good boy in every respect, I want every girl's father to be proud of me also through the knowledge of the Islamic religion.

But something of not nice happened in October...

While i was trying to improve my urdu, in a chat-room i knew a girl from Karachi.... I asked her about Pakistani traditions and so on....and talking about some topics she told me that the kind of purity I'm looking for does not exist in the world of Islam, that girls have engaged before marriage (she had a boyfriend and physical relationships when she was only 16), that many girls lie about their past and other things so. These words shocked me!

So, i started to take other info...and a lot of people told me: "Oh no! Dont do that! You will not find your ideal girl in Islam because in this world all girls had other men, muslims girls are the same as catholic, it's impossible for you to find a pious and virtuous girl at 28 years old...."

Dear sisters and brothers: I am ready to embrace Islam, I can not wait to really meet a good Pakistani Muslim girl and plan a future with her, but i dont know how, where to start and especially if Islam can save me.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
eesa the kiwi
02-28-2018, 12:41 AM
To embrace islam all one has to do is say the testification of faith which is as

Ash hadu anla ilaha illalahu wa ash hadu anna muhamadan abduhu wa rasuluh
(I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah and i bear witness Muhammad is his servant and messenger.

You say this you enter Islam and become our brother in faith. I suggest you do it without delay as you don't know when the angel of death will come



As for finding a pious chaste wife there are plenty of sisters like that out there Alhamdulilah. Be patient and ask Allah to provide for you
Reply

Misbah-Abd
02-28-2018, 01:29 AM
You need to want to embrace Islam for the sake of Allah and not to find your "perfect wife". From your previous posts, you have an unhealthy obsession with this Pakistani girl and the pursuit of pure virgins girls. Focus on the Truth of Islam and embrace it with the right intentions for the benefit of your soul.
Reply

Artic090
02-28-2018, 03:22 AM
I want to know if Islam can give me the salvation and happiness I seek, and this my realization also involves finding my ideal girl. And I do not understand why the search for a virgin girl must be unhealthy. I do not want a girl who has been touched by other men: for someone virginity is not important, but for me it is. Why do you have to judge my choices?
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
*charisma*
02-28-2018, 04:00 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
I want to know if Islam can give me the salvation and happiness I seek, and this my realization also involves finding my ideal girl. And I do not understand why the search for a virgin girl must be unhealthy. I do not want a girl who has been touched by other men: for someone virginity is not important, but for me it is. Why do you have to judge my choices?
I think it's very respectable that you have remained chaste all of your life and have refrained from the impermissible worldly things. I wish more brothers were like this. You'd fit perfectly in Islam and I do believe it will make you feel the happiness you seek. You will not be able to marry any Muslim girl unless you are a faithful Muslim man. You have a right to want and seek a chaste woman if you are chaste yourself. I don't see a problem with it. What seems problematic is how strong your emotions are regarding marriage in general, and how easily manipulated they become by the people around you. You need to be stronger than this. :)
Reply

Artic090
03-04-2018, 07:19 PM
Charisma, i really liked your post.

Islam has opened to me a world that I have always desired, unfortunately I cant find confirmation.
The more I talk to Muslim girls and boys, the more I understand that virginity and chastity are lost.

I'm learning Urdu, right? So, I found a forum where I can interact with Pakistani boys and girls to know better religion, culture, language, ect. Practically everyone has had relationships, and when I point out that the Islamic religion does not teach this, they respond "we can all go wrong, nobody is perfect, it can happen to everyone to have phisical relationships". I also notice an aura of silence, as if they knew that they were wrong.

I can not understand why people talk about mistakes. Having a relationship is a deliberate choice, it is not an accident that can happen.
Ok, I agree that nobody is perfect, and any muslim in this world is perfect.

But think over: for to have a physical relationship you have to break three very important islamic rules:

- Giving confidence to the opposite sex so that something is created that goes beyond mere friendship (First step haram)
- Turning this friendship into a loving relationship (Second step Haram)
- Getting to have sex (Third thing haram)

This is not an accidental sin done without evil intentions (I repeat, it can happen every day to do something wrong and repent a few moments later), but to have sex is a premeditated sin.
Reply

Alamgir
03-04-2018, 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by Artic090
Dear sisters and brothers,
some of you "know" me and my situation. But i decided to write you all my story, starting from the beginning.

I hope you have got 10 minutes of your lifes to dedicate me.


I've always been an atypical guy compared to Western kids: no drinking, no smoking, no disco, no sex.
During my adolescence I lost all my friends because they loved doing transgressive things, while I was very serious and responsible. Here in Italy if you do not follow the mass they label you as a loser, problematic.

But since I was a young boy I had just a little dream in my heart: to find a good girl, get married and have my happy family. But this is not possible in the Western and Catholic world. In 28 years I have never found the right girl, and when I try to expose my ideals people have always humiliated me... especially Catholic people (women). They say that i need psycologist, that in this world i wont find my right girl because my girl exists only in my head, ad so on.
So I decided to get away from the Catholic community and from God... because God had decided to leave me alone with those people so disreputable. I asked Him such things like "What is wrong on me? Why i cant be happy? Why girl are so corrupted with sex, smoke and alcool? Why nobody believe in my same ideals? Why did you give me birth if there isnt space for me in this world?".
I tell you honestly: if I could give my life to a sick child who is going to die, I would do it willingly. At least i give a smile to a child that surely will be a winner, will realize his dream. I would find peace by dying.

But this summer, while I was working as a volunteer at the hospital, I noticed a Muslim Pakistani girl (she was an interpreter fror pakistani people who live here and cant talk good italian language) who struck me a lot. I had never seen such a beautiful girl, a beauty that I could not even describe. I saw what in Islam is called "Haya" (i dont know if she really was a "haya-girl",but this is the impression I had).
Although I didnt know her (we never talked) I secretly fell madly in love with her. Suddendly i didnt see her at work? Where was she go? Simply: I come to find out that she is already married and that she is two months pregnant, so she stopped working. Death came in my heart.
When I think of her I feel like crying, both because I had the illusion of having a future with her, and because it is the umpteenth demonstration that I can never be happy.

But i still remember the first day i saw her: when i came back home, i started to read information on Pakistan and Islam. A new world has opened up! Finally Islam described the world I have always dreamed of: justice, freedom, hope. And Muslim women were described as I always wanted: no promiscuity, no smoke, no alcohol. Perfect wifes and mothers. I started to dream women as our Maryem or Aisha.

I came back to have more hope and I made peace with God thanking him for introducing me to that Pakistani girl, because thanks to that event I could understand what would be my right path.

I started studying Urdu and The Koran alone, I decided to become a better boy than now.
I have read that many Pakistani fathers do not accept that their daughter get marry an Italian, and this has been an extra stimulus to study everything about Islam, hoping to show that even if I am not a Pakistani by birth, I can be the right boy for their daughters thanks to my sacrifices and my values. Do you remember when that young boy wanted to marry a girl entrusted to the prophet Mohammed? He was poor and unknown ... but the Prophet put him to the test by asking him to recite the Qur'an. In this way He understood that that boy was really the perfect husband for that woman.
And I would like the same to happen to me: I want to show that I am a good boy in every respect, I want every girl's father to be proud of me also through the knowledge of the Islamic religion.

But something of not nice happened in October...

While i was trying to improve my urdu, in a chat-room i knew a girl from Karachi.... I asked her about Pakistani traditions and so on....and talking about some topics she told me that the kind of purity I'm looking for does not exist in the world of Islam, that girls have engaged before marriage (she had a boyfriend and physical relationships when she was only 16), that many girls lie about their past and other things so. These words shocked me!

So, i started to take other info...and a lot of people told me: "Oh no! Dont do that! You will not find your ideal girl in Islam because in this world all girls had other men, muslims girls are the same as catholic, it's impossible for you to find a pious and virtuous girl at 28 years old...."

Dear sisters and brothers: I am ready to embrace Islam, I can not wait to really meet a good Pakistani Muslim girl and plan a future with her, but i dont know how, where to start and especially if Islam can save me.
I'm not going to lie, you sound absolutely mental.

Stop this fixation with Pakistani girls just because you fell madly in love with one previously. Your future spouse could come from any background, so don't keep your search fixed on Pakistanis alone.

As for virgins, many people will lie about their past but even if someone is not a virgin, it should not matter to you so long as they were either married at the time or have repented for their transgression.

When it comes to Islam, it's great that you want to embrace the religion, and you can do so very easily by saying the Shahadah (google what that is later), after that we can get into other minor things you will have to change. However, I would strongly recommend you find objective, rational reasons to believe in Islam rather than purely emotional arguments. Emotions come and go and are not objective, where as rational arguments are objective and do not change.

Also, no practising Muslim will marry you unless you convert to Islam first.
Reply

Misbah-Abd
03-04-2018, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
I'm not going to lie, you sound absolutely mental.

Stop this fixation with Pakistani girls just because you fell madly in love with one previously. Your future spouse could come from any background, so don't keep your search fixed on Pakistanis alone.

As for virgins, many people will lie about their past but even if someone is not a virgin, it should not matter to you so long as they were either married at the time or have repented for their transgression.

When it comes to Islam, it's great that you want to embrace the religion, and you can do so very easily by saying the Shahadah (google what that is later), after that we can get into other minor things you will have to change. However, I would strongly recommend you find objective, rational reasons to believe in Islam rather than purely emotional arguments. Emotions come and go and are not objective, where as rational arguments are objective and do not change.

Also, no practising Muslim will marry you unless you convert to Islam first.
This is where his sincerity is compromised. He is more fixated on finding a pure virgin girl than seeking the truth of Islam. If he could find what he was looking for in his religion, he wouldn't be here flirting with the idea of embracing Islam to get what he desires. ^o)
Reply

Alamgir
03-04-2018, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by Artic090
I want to know if Islam can give me the salvation and happiness I seek, and this my realization also involves finding my ideal girl. And I do not understand why the search for a virgin girl must be unhealthy. I do not want a girl who has been touched by other men: for someone virginity is not important, but for me it is. Why do you have to judge my choices?
It's fine if this is your preference, but don't obsess over it.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Artic090
I want to know if Islam can give me the salvation and happiness I seek, and this my realization also involves finding my ideal girl. And I do not understand why the search for a virgin girl must be unhealthy. I do not want a girl who has been touched by other men: for someone virginity is not important, but for me it is. Why do you have to judge my choices?
It's fine if this is your preference, but don't obsess over it.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
This is where his sincerity is compromised. He is more fixated on finding a pure virgin girl than seeking the truth of Islam. If he could find what he was looking for in his religion, he wouldn't be here flirting with the idea of embracing Islam to get what he desires. ^o)
Asalamu Alaikum

Right, but no other religion really offers what he is after so it does at least somewhat make sense.
Reply

fschmidt
03-04-2018, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
As for virgins, many people will lie about their past but even if someone is not a virgin, it should not matter to you so long as they were either married at the time or have repented for their transgression.
I don't understand how you can say this given what Quran 24:3 says. If you steal and repent and return what you stole, then the repentance is complete. But if you murder, you cannot return what you have taken, so the repentance can never be complete because you cannot return the life to the dead. Promiscuity is more like murder than like theft in this regard because it cannot be undone. Of course the promiscuous person should repent, but they should also be willing to live with the consequences of their action which includes the loss of the right to expect to marry a chaste partner.
Reply

Alamgir
03-04-2018, 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by fschmidt
I don't understand how you can say this given what Quran 24:3 says. If you steal and repent and return what you stole, then the repentance is complete. But if you murder, you cannot return what you have taken, so the repentance can never be complete because you cannot return the life to the dead. Promiscuity is more like murder than like theft in this regard because it cannot be undone. Of course the promiscuous person should repent, but they should also be willing to live with the consequences of their action which includes the loss of the right to expect to marry a chaste partner.
No, that's not how this works. Everyone has the right to repent, and will be forgiven completely provided their repentance is sincere. That's the essence of mercy, and is one of the many reasons why Allah (Azza Wa Jala) is called the most merciful. Whether or not the punishment is still carried out is irrelevant to whether or not their repentance is accepted.

You should be fine with marrying a non-virgin provided they have repented and are of exemplary character. In Islam, you marry someone based on their current character, not their previous one.

Also, killing an innocent person is not the same as committing zina. Please do not take the Islamic rulings for murder and apply them to zina.
Reply

IslamLife00
03-05-2018, 01:19 AM
There is nothing like Islam, not areligion, not way of life, not “divine revelation” - there isabsolutely nothing even remotely close to Islam. Because there is noGod except Allah and Islam comes from Him. Alhamdulillahrabbil-'alamin


You think a virgin muslimah (Pakistanior not) will be a dream come true. But Allah knows what will fulfillyou, make you content. It's up to you whether you want to find avirgin muslimah first before accepting Islam, or you accept Islamfirst and let Allah bestows upon you what He knows is best for you.
Reply

azc
03-05-2018, 03:35 AM
@Artic090 :

Give preference to Islam instead of virgin girl.

InshaAllah, you will get your life partner of your choice (virgin).

“Women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity” — Surah an Nur Ayah 26
Reply

Shamnadanu
03-05-2018, 04:15 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
Dear sisters and brothers,
some of you "know" me and my situation. But i decided to write you all my story, starting from the beginning.

I hope you have got 10 minutes of your lifes to dedicate me.


I've always been an atypical guy compared to Western kids: no drinking, no smoking, no disco, no sex.
During my adolescence I lost all my friends because they loved doing transgressive things, while I was very serious and responsible. Here in Italy if you do not follow the mass they label you as a loser, problematic.

But since I was a young boy I had just a little dream in my heart: to find a good girl, get married and have my happy family. But this is not possible in the Western and Catholic world. In 28 years I have never found the right girl, and when I try to expose my ideals people have always humiliated me... especially Catholic people (women). They say that i need psycologist, that in this world i wont find my right girl because my girl exists only in my head, ad so on.
So I decided to get away from the Catholic community and from God... because God had decided to leave me alone with those people so disreputable. I asked Him such things like "What is wrong on me? Why i cant be happy? Why girl are so corrupted with sex, smoke and alcool? Why nobody believe in my same ideals? Why did you give me birth if there isnt space for me in this world?".
I tell you honestly: if I could give my life to a sick child who is going to die, I would do it willingly. At least i give a smile to a child that surely will be a winner, will realize his dream. I would find peace by dying.

But this summer, while I was working as a volunteer at the hospital, I noticed a Muslim Pakistani girl (she was an interpreter fror pakistani people who live here and cant talk good italian language) who struck me a lot. I had never seen such a beautiful girl, a beauty that I could not even describe. I saw what in Islam is called "Haya" (i dont know if she really was a "haya-girl",but this is the impression I had).
Although I didnt know her (we never talked) I secretly fell madly in love with her. Suddendly i didnt see her at work? Where was she go? Simply: I come to find out that she is already married and that she is two months pregnant, so she stopped working. Death came in my heart.
When I think of her I feel like crying, both because I had the illusion of having a future with her, and because it is the umpteenth demonstration that I can never be happy.

But i still remember the first day i saw her: when i came back home, i started to read information on Pakistan and Islam. A new world has opened up! Finally Islam described the world I have always dreamed of: justice, freedom, hope. And Muslim women were described as I always wanted: no promiscuity, no smoke, no alcohol. Perfect wifes and mothers. I started to dream women as our Maryem or Aisha.

I came back to have more hope and I made peace with God thanking him for introducing me to that Pakistani girl, because thanks to that event I could understand what would be my right path.

I started studying Urdu and The Koran alone, I decided to become a better boy than now.
I have read that many Pakistani fathers do not accept that their daughter get marry an Italian, and this has been an extra stimulus to study everything about Islam, hoping to show that even if I am not a Pakistani by birth, I can be the right boy for their daughters thanks to my sacrifices and my values. Do you remember when that young boy wanted to marry a girl entrusted to the prophet Mohammed? He was poor and unknown ... but the Prophet put him to the test by asking him to recite the Qur'an. In this way He understood that that boy was really the perfect husband for that woman.
And I would like the same to happen to me: I want to show that I am a good boy in every respect, I want every girl's father to be proud of me also through the knowledge of the Islamic religion.

But something of not nice happened in October...

While i was trying to improve my urdu, in a chat-room i knew a girl from Karachi.... I asked her about Pakistani traditions and so on....and talking about some topics she told me that the kind of purity I'm looking for does not exist in the world of Islam, that girls have engaged before marriage (she had a boyfriend and physical relationships when she was only 16), that many girls lie about their past and other things so. These words shocked me!

So, i started to take other info...and a lot of people told me: "Oh no! Dont do that! You will not find your ideal girl in Islam because in this world all girls had other men, muslims girls are the same as catholic, it's impossible for you to find a pious and virtuous girl at 28 years old...."

Dear sisters and brothers: I am ready to embrace Islam, I can not wait to really meet a good Pakistani Muslim girl and plan a future with her, but i dont know how, where to start and especially if Islam can save me.
Brother.
You are exactly similar to me.btw i am muslim.
But she who chat with you may live without dheen.
But there are millions of better women who are strong in eeman.
its like in a manufacturing factory there are defective ones and good ones.
similarly there are better people in every place.
they will be guided by Allah swt .
Reply

Reminder
03-05-2018, 05:20 AM
Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
No, that's not how this works. Everyone has the right to repent, and will be forgiven completely provided their repentance is sincere. That's the essence of mercy, and is one of the many reasons why Allah (Azza Wa Jala) is called the most merciful. Whether or not the punishment is still carried out is irrelevant to whether or not their repentance is accepted.

You should be fine with marrying a non-virgin provided they have repented and are of exemplary character. In Islam, you marry someone based on their current character, not their previous one.

Also, killing an innocent person is not the same as committing zina. Please do not take the Islamic rulings for murder and apply them to zina.
@fschmidt is right. There are "minor" and "major" sins. Zina, like murder, is a major sin - one that can't be undone. Minor theft is resolved by simply returning stolen stuff or paying for it.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-05-2018, 06:24 AM
Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
I'm not going to lie, you sound absolutely mental.

Stop this fixation with Pakistani girls just because you fell madly in love with one previously. Your future spouse could come from any background, so don't keep your search fixed on Pakistanis alone.

As for virgins, many people will lie about their past but even if someone is not a virgin, it should not matter to you so long as they were either married at the time or have repented for their transgression.

When it comes to Islam, it's great that you want to embrace the religion, and you can do so very easily by saying the Shahadah (google what that is later), after that we can get into other minor things you will have to change. However, I would strongly recommend you find objective, rational reasons to believe in Islam rather than purely emotional arguments. Emotions come and go and are not objective, where as rational arguments are objective and do not change.

Also, no practising Muslim will marry you unless you convert to Islam first.
100% correct
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-05-2018, 06:28 AM
You seem to care more about marrying a virgin than something else. So what if shes not? Maybe she sinned and repented,maybe she was previously married idk. Its not a healthy mindset and if your one defining characteristic is a pakistani virgin then you wont get very far my friend. Like @Ibn Shahid said its fine to have a preference but really tge most important thing in a spouse is if theyre practising etc.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-05-2018, 06:29 AM
Originally Posted by fschmidt
I don't understand how you can say this given what Quran 24:3 says. If you steal and repent and return what you stole, then the repentance is complete. But if you murder, you cannot return what you have taken, so the repentance can never be complete because you cannot return the life to the dead. Promiscuity is more like murder than like theft in this regard because it cannot be undone. Of course the promiscuous person should repent, but they should also be willing to live with the consequences of their action which includes the loss of the right to expect to marry a chaste partner.
If God can forgive why cant we? Il link up a really good post by a former imam explaining that aya. You dont have to agree but i found it interesting.
Reply

Artic090
03-11-2018, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Ibn Shahid
As for virgins, many people will lie about their past but even if someone is not a virgin, it should not matter to you so long as they were either married at the time or have repented for their transgression.
I am seeking purity, that purity that I cant find in my religion. This is why I want a girl who knows how to enhance purity....because it will have to be an example to my children too. I cant imagine to stay with a girl who has had other men, I just cant accept it on a religious, moral and psychological level. It's stronger than me.
And I'm not talking about widows or divorces, but single girls never married.
To base the marriage on a lie? Lying on being virgins? With what courage, in front of God, are you going to tell me this lie? Marriage is a serious matter, based on loyalty, respect, sincerity. It isnt a business where the most clever (and unfair) investors win!
Reply

Artic090
03-11-2018, 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
You seem to care more about marrying a virgin than something else. So what if shes not? Maybe she sinned and repented,maybe she was previously married idk. Its not a healthy mindset and if your one defining characteristic is a pakistani virgin then you wont get very far my friend. Like @Ibn Shahid said its fine to have a preference but really tge most important thing in a spouse is if theyre practising etc.
For me virginity is very important, because I'M VIRGIN, and im looking for a such girl who believes in my same ideals. I want to base the relationship on the purity of both...i dont know why its wrong...
I dont think you would marry anyone, right? You too will have preferences and criteria that you cant overlook, maybe it will not be about purity virginity, but surely you will have a pillar on which to base your relationship.
If my choice is "not a healthy mindset" maybe I was wrong to approach Islam...I thought that some speeches belonged only to Catholic people (to "defend" their sins and get out of it saying that "God forgives everyone, so you too must do it!"). But guys, i'm not God! Unfortunately I have my limits, my weaknesses, my way of thinking.

There are so many Muslim religious girls who for example wont accept a short boy, or a poor boy, or a boy without a good job. But no-one is going to tell them "Oh, shame! You should accept the same because God would accept them!".

Why when we speak of virginity as a criterion must there be these lessons of morality? When instead there are even more senseless criteria? Yet there are criteria of choice even more unjust and senseless

I'm sorry, but I'm very disappointed. I left the Catholic community because of the inconsistency and hypocrisy around them, I thought the Islamic community was my new home.

I was wrong.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-11-2018, 05:33 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
For me virginity is very important, because I'M VIRGIN, and im looking for a such girl who believes in my same ideals. I want to base the relationship on the purity of both...i dont know why its wrong...
I dont think you would marry anyone, right? You too will have preferences and criteria that you cant overlook, maybe it will not be about purity virginity, but surely you will have a pillar on which to base your relationship.
If my choice is "not a healthy mindset" maybe I was wrong to approach Islam...I thought that some speeches belonged only to Catholic people (to "defend" their sins and get out of it saying that "God forgives everyone, so you too must do it!"). But guys, i'm not God! Unfortunately I have my limits, my weaknesses, my way of thinking.

There are so many Muslim religious girls who for example wont accept a short boy, or a poor boy, or a boy without a good job. But no-one is going to tell them "Oh, shame! You should accept the same because God would accept them!".

Why when we speak of virginity as a criterion must there be these lessons of morality? When instead there are even more senseless criteria? Yet there are criteria of choice even more unjust and senseless

I'm sorry, but I'm very disappointed. I left the Catholic community because of the inconsistency and hypocrisy around them, I thought the Islamic community was my new home.

I was wrong.
Well if thats your preference thats your personal choice. Don't judge islam by muslims
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-11-2018, 11:11 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
For me virginity is very important, because I'M VIRGIN, and im looking for a such girl who believes in my same ideals. I want to base the relationship on the purity of both...i dont know why its wrong...
I dont think you would marry anyone, right? You too will have preferences and criteria that you cant overlook, maybe it will not be about purity virginity, but surely you will have a pillar on which to base your relationship.
If my choice is "not a healthy mindset" maybe I was wrong to approach Islam...I thought that some speeches belonged only to Catholic people (to "defend" their sins and get out of it saying that "God forgives everyone, so you too must do it!"). But guys, i'm not God! Unfortunately I have my limits, my weaknesses, my way of thinking.

There are so many Muslim religious girls who for example wont accept a short boy, or a poor boy, or a boy without a good job. But no-one is going to tell them "Oh, shame! You should accept the same because God would accept them!".

Why when we speak of virginity as a criterion must there be these lessons of morality? When instead there are even more senseless criteria? Yet there are criteria of choice even more unjust and senseless

I'm sorry, but I'm very disappointed. I left the Catholic community because of the inconsistency and hypocrisy around them, I thought the Islamic community was my new home.

I was wrong.
Maybe we got our wires crossed then( its an expression..)
I am not saying that its bad to marry a virgin. I am saying that if that is your absolute sole factor when looking for a spouse then its a bit unpractical( in my opinion). I mean lets say you have other criteria right? So lets say you meet.. Hmm a divorced woman who is like amazing but shes not a virgin, what would you do? Ofc ideally all non married muslims should be virgins because of zina not being allowed. I was also a bit confused because i didnt really read anything about your desire to be muslim because you like Islam etc. I would discourage you from making assumptions about the muslim community from a couple of our opinions.
Reply

SHO
03-11-2018, 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
I'm sorry, but I'm very disappointed. I left the Catholic community because of the inconsistency and hypocrisy around them, I thought the Islamic community was my new home.

I was wrong.
Another person attracted by purity in Islam turned away by ignorant people.

A group of Pakistanis you encountered does not represent Islam or Muslims, and Pakistan is not the only place on Earth with Muslims, and most Muslims are not unchaste as you said. I believe that almost all Muslims in this world are chaste,except for a few immoral people who are simply 'Muslims' by word.(Immoral people are all over the world).

You can find a good wife for yourself from anywhere in the world. You be good and ask Allah for good, He might give you good.

Salaam.
Reply

CalmPassenger
03-11-2018, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Artic090
For me virginity is very important, because I'M VIRGIN, and im looking for a such girl who believes in my same ideals. I want to base the relationship on the purity of both...i dont know why its wrong...
I dont think you would marry anyone, right? You too will have preferences and criteria that you cant overlook, maybe it will not be about purity virginity, but surely you will have a pillar on which to base your relationship.
If my choice is "not a healthy mindset" maybe I was wrong to approach Islam...I thought that some speeches belonged only to Catholic people (to "defend" their sins and get out of it saying that "God forgives everyone, so you too must do it!"). But guys, i'm not God! Unfortunately I have my limits, my weaknesses, my way of thinking.

There are so many Muslim religious girls who for example wont accept a short boy, or a poor boy, or a boy without a good job. But no-one is going to tell them "Oh, shame! You should accept the same because God would accept them!".

Why when we speak of virginity as a criterion must there be these lessons of morality? When instead there are even more senseless criteria? Yet there are criteria of choice even more unjust and senseless

I'm sorry, but I'm very disappointed. I left the Catholic community because of the inconsistency and hypocrisy around them, I thought the Islamic community was my new home.

I was wrong.
You are not wrong. But you are different and thats why people are asking questions... Its amazing how we people got different thinkings... Different mind...Like a rainbow...Wow how amazing rainbow looks....But why its look so beautiful...Becoz Rainbow have different color variations... So what i do if some one dont like my shirt color? ahaha I will ignore. Becoz every one have their own priority, likes... For example am muslim and i never drink or smoke...So i also want my wife who never smoke or drink and etc... So Dont worry about others... Good wishes and enjoy...Stay healthy
Reply

Artic090
03-12-2018, 02:28 AM
Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
Maybe we got our wires crossed then( its an expression..)
I am not saying that its bad to marry a virgin. I am saying that if that is your absolute sole factor when looking for a spouse then its a bit unpractical( in my opinion). I mean lets say you have other criteria right? So lets say you meet.. Hmm a divorced woman who is like amazing but shes not a virgin, what would you do? Ofc ideally all non married muslims should be virgins because of zina not being allowed. I was also a bit confused because i didnt really read anything about your desire to be muslim because you like Islam etc. I would discourage you from making assumptions about the muslim community from a couple of our opinions.
Honestly your previous speech has bothered me.
A few years ago, when I still believed in the Catholic community, I had written in a Catholic forum asking for advice on this: why i cant meet a girl with my own values?
I suffered the worst humiliations and offenses especially by women (if you want I tell you), from that day I decided to get away from the whole community. I do not know if I'm better or worse, but I definitely dont want to be the same as them who use the word "God" as a shield and wipe their conscience.
One of the most painful offenses I've received is "You're mentally insane". And inside myself i started to think to have really some psychological problems. And do you know what i have done? I really went to a psychologist.
And when you wrote "unhealth mindset" I tried the same emotions again.

I am 28. Of course, I'm not a child, but why should I marry a divorced or widowed at my age?
If I were 50 then I should consider the fact that, at that age, I couldnt find some young girls but only mature women with a past behind, perhaps with children.

If I happened to meet a divorced 25-year-old girl I would not accept. And im not talking only about virginity. I would like my first experiences to be the first even of my future bride, without ghosts of her past: being able to have the opportunity to grow together, starting from the inexperience of both.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-12-2018, 06:23 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
Honestly your previous speech has bothered me.
A few years ago, when I still believed in the Catholic community, I had written in a Catholic forum asking for advice on this: why i cant meet a girl with my own values?
I suffered the worst humiliations and offenses especially by women (if you want I tell you), from that day I decided to get away from the whole community. I do not know if I'm better or worse, but I definitely dont want to be the same as them who use the word "God" as a shield and wipe their conscience.
One of the most painful offenses I've received is "You're mentally insane". And inside myself i started to think to have really some psychological problems. And do you know what i have done? I really went to a psychologist.
And when you wrote "unhealth mindset" I tried the same emotions again.

I am 28. Of course, I'm not a child, but why should I marry a divorced or widowed at my age?
If I were 50 then I should consider the fact that, at that age, I couldnt find some young girls but only mature women with a past behind, perhaps with children.

Honestly your previous speech has bothered me.
A few years ago, when I still believed in the Catholic community, I had written in a Catholic forum asking for advice on this: why could not I meet a girl with my own values?
I suffered the worst humiliations and offenses especially by women (if you want I tell you), from that day I decided to get away from the whole community. I do not know if I'm better or worse, but I definitely do not want to be the same as them who use the word "God" as a shield and wipe their conscience.
One of the most painful offenses I've received is "You're mentally insane". And I myself started thinking about having some psychological problems so much so that I really went to a psychologist.
And when you wrote "unhealth mindset" I tried the same emotions again.

I am 28. Of course, I'm not a child, but why should I marry a divorced or widowed at my age?
If I were 50 then I should consider the fact that, at that age, I could not find young girls but only mature women with a past behind, perhaps with children.

If I happened to meet a divorced 25-year-old girl I would not accept. And im not talking only about virginity. I would like my first experiences to be the first even of my future bride, without ghosts of her past: being able to have the opportunity to grow together, starting from the inexperience of both.
Fair enough thats your preference. I honestly did not intend for you to feel like that and i ask you to forgive me. I hope you find what you're looking for eventually.
Reply

Eric H
03-12-2018, 09:54 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Artic090;

To freely choose to remain a virgin until the age of 28, and to seek a virgin bride is to be commended. But what would happen if you met a Catholic virgin, and you were both attracted to each other, would you still turn to Islam?

As our Muslim brothers and sisters have said, try and work out your priorities sincerely.

Blessings

Eric
Reply

*charisma*
03-12-2018, 09:57 AM
Assalamu ALaikum

If he has been pure all of his life, for 28 years, then he deserves to choose whomever he wishes. Repenting to Allah can remove the sin, but it doesn't take away the experience. The repentance can make her a better worshipper, but some don't need to make that type of mistake to worship Allah better.

Brother @Artic090 there are pure CHASTE women out there. And as everyone has already mentioned, you do have other options as well but I know you're not interested in those. You will find what you're looking for in Islam, however if you genuinely seek Islam for MORE than the marriage as we all hope you are, then I suggest you learn ARABIC first so you can better understand the religion instead of learning Urdu. A chaste Muslim woman will want her husband to be knowledgable and pious in his religion. Which it seems you'd be willing to go above and beyond to be for someone you'd care about and respect, so I know that won't be too difficult for you to find the motivation for. I also suggest you seek Allah's guidance to whatever it is you desire first and foremost instead of talking to the people. The people will not get you anywhere. There are over 7 billion people and each has their own opinion and you will never please any of them, so seek Allah's guidance first and foremost.

I do want to highlight a few things about the etiquette of finding someone in Islam. Maybe in your culture it is ok to look at the woman for her beauty, but in Islam it's not allowed to stare or gaze at a woman. You should be lowering your gaze to protect yourself from temptation and as respect to her. Secondly freely talking to women about their chastity or sexual nature is absolutely forbidden as well. A girl who is open to talk to you in that manner will probably not be chaste even if she is a Muslim girl. So please keep that in mind. Finally, a girl has male relatives/guardians that you should seek to get approval from because ultimately they are who will be giving her away, even if she somehow falls in love or is interested in you. Therefore you want to present yourself as someone who is respectful, mindful, and pious, not as someone who is marriage-hungry/desperate.

I want you to sincerely look into Islam as the religion, not just the followers. THe followers come from EVERYWHERE with ALL TYPES OF HISTORY...so it would be unfair to judge all girls on chastity when some of them may have converted to Islam after they lost their virginity, or made mistakes due to ignorance, or any other reason. You do have your right to marry a chaste girl and they absolutely exist plentiful, but what I mean is don't expect every muslim in the world to be perfect, we will make mistakes and sin until we die. The girls you talk to may be the worst representation of Islam whereas the ones who are the best you may not find in the manner you are looking for them currently. Perfection is reserved for Allah only, so look into Islam the religion, don't only judge it by it's followers.
Reply

Misbah-Abd
03-12-2018, 09:59 AM
The older he gets, the less likely this desire of his isn't going to happen. I thought this guy was at most in his early 20's. This guy is reaching 30.

- - - Updated - - -

The older he gets, the less likely this desire of his isn't going to happen. I thought this guy was at most in his early 20's. This guy is reaching 30.
Reply

*charisma*
03-12-2018, 10:07 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
The older he gets, the less likely this desire of his isn't going to happen. I thought this guy was at most in his early 20's. This guy is reaching 30.
I think 28 is a good age for marriage for men. Mid-Late 20's is pretty ideal. A guy's brain is fully developed at 25, so he is ready to be serious by the time he's 28. If it were the opposite, I'd definitely say that the clock is ticking lool. Younger than that would be great if he is mature and is able, but if he was able to remain chaste this long mashallah, then why not keep his values as they are? maybe there's a reason for it.
Reply

Misbah-Abd
03-12-2018, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
I think 28 is a good age for marriage for men. Mid-Late 20's is pretty ideal. A guy's brain is fully developed at 25, so he is ready to be serious by the time he's 28. If it were the opposite, I'd definitely say that the tock is ticking lool. Younger than that would be great if he is mature and is able, but if he was able to remain chaste this long mashallah, then why not keep his values as they are? maybe there's a reason for it.
And we have seen what happens when men hold out especially priests who end up molesting boys since they are the ones who come into contact with them. Its better to find someone now and settle down then to pursue this obsession that he is more likely not going to find. He is really missing out on love everyday he remains stubborn.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-12-2018, 10:25 AM
If you're seeking Islam only because of the opportunity to marry a girl who keeps her chastity then i think your intentions might be a bit skewed. Like brother Eric said, if ur interested in islam for thr right reasons then i 100% support u. If its just for a virgin, then im sure there are plenty of nice Catholic women who keep their chastity etc.
Reply

*charisma*
03-12-2018, 10:27 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
And we have seen what happens when men hold out especially priests who end up molesting boys since they are the ones who come into contact with them. Its better to find someone now and settle down then to pursue this obsession that he is more likely not going to find. He is really missing out on love everyday he remains stubborn.
Do they do it because they held out or is it because they had this issue to begin with? Molestation is a form of zina as well so I don't think you should make such a correlation, otherwise we could jump to conclusions that every guy who's held out is secretly a child molester.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said in the end, but most guys in general would prefer a chaste woman especially if they are chaste as well because it's damn hard (i assume) for a guy to control his desires compared to a woman. I don't think a man who goes to marry a girl and she's like "soo I've slept with my boyfriend, but yeah i deeply regret it" he'd be all like "cool let's get married"..nope it'd either be an instant rejection or it may be something which he keeps in the back of his mind and will bother him. If they were both previously married, it would be a different situation...but the point is we do all have our own preferences and deal-breakers and the right to uphold them if we want. Maybe if he never finds the girl he wants he'd prefer to be single for the rest of his life because it will be unfair on his wife if he'd be unable to shake dark thoughts about her previous relationships..living in black and white..but hey it's his life.
Reply

Artic090
03-13-2018, 03:22 AM
Hi Eric H.
I dont think i will find a virgin and loyal Catholic girl nowadays...

I spent many years in environments soooo close to the "Catholic Church" and there doesnt exist "sexual chastity". Believe me.
You must also consider that Catholic girls, even if they are "virgins", carry with them a halo of pride, arrogance, incoherence. At least that's what I saw in Italy with italian girls.
The same girls who made me the moral lessons about my choices, are those who choose the boys based on the physical appearance. Many of these girls say things like "If man is not at least 180cm tall, I dont take him into consideration" or "Man must have a good salary". Can you see the incoherence?
There is a proverb that says "Pure as angels, superb as demons".

Then there is the one big problem: sons.
I dont want my children to grow up with the Western mentality.
For example, I am sure that if I married a Catholic wife I would have big problems with the children's lifestyle.
Here in Italy, Catholic mothers send their children to a club at the age of 14, making them come back late at night: they accompany their daughters (about 15-16 years old) tothe gynecologist for the contraceptive pill. The list is veeery long.

Im against! I want my children to grow up with Islamic values, which are far from transgression. And only a good Muslim wife/mother can help me, I would like that my wife will be the example to follow for my daughters.
Reply

Eric H
03-14-2018, 11:49 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Artic090;

All you can do is pray for guidance, I hope you will be blessed.

Eric
Reply

Umme salma
03-16-2018, 12:54 AM
Just like to add....a woman who is pure may not necessarily mean a virgin...but can include rather one who hasn't committed zina..ie a divorcee or a widow...who have had pure relationships...as relationships under marriage contract are considered legal and pure..
Reply

Artic090
03-20-2018, 09:51 PM
Hello friends,
sorry for the delay in responding.
I was able to do research, get direct and indirect testimonies.
I must surrender to the idea that Islam cant give me what I'm looking for.

Perhaps I will seem arrogant, but I have noticed the same hypocrisy, inconsistency, self-interest of the Catholic religion and of Catholic people.
I met a lot Muslim people i asked "Do you eat pork?" They reply "Absolutely not! It is forbidden by our religion!" ... or "Would you ever marry a Catholic boy?" "Oh, no, it would be against the will of my parents, of the Muslim community, but above all of Allah !.
To the question "Are you a virgin?" they start with "Ehm ... Umh ... so, actually we are all sinners, nobody is perfect, I'm Muslim but I do not follow all the rules, only God can judge me"


I also noticed this: it happens very often that a girl or a boy runs in the forums saying "I had sex before marriage" and everyone to say "Do not worry, ask forgiveness to Allah and he will do it".
Friends, believe me: in this way, Islam loses credibility! Why should a girl or a boy wait for marriage to have sex?
It's so simple, just ask Allah for forgiveness!
In this way the value of virginity will be completely destroyed, it will become impossible to find a virgin girl or boy....especially the new generation they think "If Allah forgives them that they have had sex, He can forgive me too".

Islam is not a supermarket where you can buy what you want and what you need. Why should a beautiful religion be destroyed by personal interests?

Perhaps someone will be disappointed that I wont be able to be part of Ummah, but you have to put in my shoes: Islam had made me born again, given new hopes, and I invested my future on it. Everything I had believed...well, it doesnt exist.
Reply

Misbah-Abd
03-20-2018, 09:58 PM
Again with your obsession with virginity like that defines all that the religion is. This is going to be one of the stupidest reasons for your going into the hellfire on the Day of Judgement unless you give up this perversion of yours so you can see the truth of Islam. Not to mention, if you are a Muslim and make it to Paradise, your going to get the pure innocent virgin maidens that will be one of your rewards. But miss out because you want it in this temporal life.
Reply

*charisma*
03-20-2018, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by Artic090
In this way the value of virginity will be completely destroyed, it will become impossible to find a virgin girl or boy....especially the new generation they think "If Allah forgives them that they have had sex, He can forgive me too".

Islam is not a supermarket where you can buy what you want and what you need. Why should a beautiful religion be destroyed by personal interests?

Perhaps someone will be disappointed that I wont be able to be part of Ummah, but you have to put in my shoes: Islam had made me born again, given new hopes, and I invested my future on it. Everything I had believed...well, it doesnt exist.
May I ask then what you would suggest for someone to advise that person to do?? If someone comes to you and says they have lost their virginity, what do you tell them to do? What should they do? You have presented the problem, what's your solution?
Reply

Artic090
03-20-2018, 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
Again with your obsession with virginity like that defines all that the religion is. This is going to be one of the stupidest reasons for your going into the hellfire on the Day of Judgement unless you give up this perversion of yours so you can see the truth of Islam. Not to mention, if you are a Muslim and make it to Paradise, your going to get the pure innocent virgin maidens that will be one of your rewards. But miss out because you want it in this temporal life
Im very tired to read your posts against me, seriously!

You are finding the ways to provoke and offend me
My "obsession" is my personal choice, dictated by my moral.
And my morality is not perversion. Mine is a COHERENT choice: I am a virgin and I want a virgin girl. Where is perversion? Where is the hellfire?

If you're fine with a non-virgin girl, well, you're free to choose who you want. But stop, please, call my choice "obsession / perversion".

And stop called my intention "corrupted". If you arent agree with my choice, please, stay out by my topic. As i dont judge your choices, as you dont have to do with mine.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by *charisma*
May I ask then what you would suggest for someone to advise that person to do?? If someone comes to you and says they have lost their virginity, what do you tell them to do? What should they do? You have presented the problem, what's your solution?
The best solution would be to follow the rules of Islam, and be consistent.
Nobody obliges anyone to have sex, having sex is a deliberate and premeditated choice. When you have sex (out of wedlock) you know you're sinning, so why then regret it all?
Maybe in this case, the parents and relatives should be more present.

In this way faithful people, especially the new generations, think that religion is like a videogames, a virtual world.

I would not want this mechanism of thought to take off: "we all have a pass, a wildcard for sex. we do it, we enjoy it, and then we apologize."

So I tell you: doing so, the value of premarital virginity will be totally lost. Nobody will marry virgin and chaste, because everyone has used that "wildcard".
Reply

*charisma*
03-21-2018, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
The best solution would be to follow the rules of Islam, and be consistent.
Nobody obliges anyone to have sex, having sex is a deliberate and premeditated choice. When you have sex (out of wedlock) you know you're sinning, so why then regret it all?
Maybe in this case, the parents and relatives should be more present.

In this way faithful people, especially the new generations, think that religion is like a videogames, a virtual world.

I would not want this mechanism of thought to take off: "we all have a pass, a wildcard for sex. we do it, we enjoy it, and then we apologize."

So I tell you: doing so, the value of premarital virginity will be totally lost. Nobody will marry virgin and chaste, because everyone has used that "wildcard".
I agree with you; It shouldn't happen in the first place. No one is disagreeing with that. But you still haven't answered the question, when it does happen, then what??

Islam strictly forbids extramarital, premarital, and homosexual relationships. These are also considered a major sins and should never be publicized. Even a lustful gaze is considered sinful. Parents are strict as well and try to be present but they cannot be present 100% of the time. So even with all the efforts, for whatever reason, people still give in to their desires. I'm sure you've sinned before in some form, because you're not perfect, so what did you do afterwards?

If they don't have regret, they will continue to accumulate sins and it may get worse and worse.
Reply

Artic090
03-21-2018, 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
I agree with you; It shouldn't happen in the first place. No one is disagreeing with that. But you still haven't answered the question, when it does happen, then what??

Islam strictly forbids extramarital, premarital, and homosexual relationships. These are also considered a major sins and should never be publicized. Even a lustful gaze is considered sinful. Parents are strict as well and try to be present but they cannot be present 100% of the time. So even with all the efforts, for whatever reason, people still give in to their desires. I'm sure you've sinned before in some form, because you're not perfect, so what did you do afterwards?

If they don't have regret, they will continue to accumulate sins and it may get worse and worse.
Unfortunately there is the risk that a vicious circle is created.
I repeat my question : why should a person expect marriage before having sex if God will forgives her/his sin?

A girl who wants to wait for marriage, reading and listening to such stories, could fall into temptation. She could ask herself "If God has forgiven my friends, He will also forgive me".

In this way Islam loses credibility, but God risks to lose his supremacy.

Take me, for example: many muslim people have told me that when a Catholic converts to Islam, it is as if he born again, all sins are erased.
Following this philosophy, then I could do this: have fun with all the possible girls..but even drink, smoke, drug. In short, enjoy my life in all its transgressions.
Afterwards, convert me to Islam and say "Hey, I'm a new person! I've become pure! That's because God forgives me!".
I dont think it will be correct: losing my virginity would be like taking away something that belongs to my wife, it would be my gift to tell her that she is so special to have waited so many years.

And then, some genius, has the courage to tell me that my intentions are corrupt or that I am a pervert.

Anyway, under the religious side I dont know what could be done, but under the moral / human profile yes: simply, dont hide/fix our past.
Dont look for subterfuges to return virgins physically or do "alternative things", dont pretend to be who we arent.
It is a marriage that can last even 50-60 years.
It would be enough to talk about it serenely, look in the eyes each other, and then decide "Yes, we are compatible" or "No, we are too different".

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by *charisma*
Secondly freely talking to women about their chastity or sexual nature is absolutely forbidden as well. A girl who is open to talk to you in that manner will probably not be chaste even if she is a Muslim girl. So please keep that in mind.
Now I ask you a question: if you were a boy, how would you act?
You cant ask intimate questions, but at the same time you do not know if she is the right girl for you.

If all the Muslim girls followed the Islamic rules, what reason would I have to ask some questions? To ask about the sexual past would be stupid, useless, offensive. Because it's obvious that any girl had a boyfriend before. And what intrigues me are the married marriages: how is this topic treated between the two future spouses?

And in fact, when I read the Koran and Islamic traditions, I felt relieved: it would be enough to find a good Muslim girl (obviously a practicing) and finally I would find serenity and salvation.

But internet and Google showed me a very different reality. I've read stories that made me lose all certainty.
Reply

Scimitar
03-21-2018, 03:05 AM
well, that's ten mins i wont be getting back
Reply

azc
03-21-2018, 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
Im very tired to read your posts against me, seriously!

You are finding the ways to provoke and offend me
My "obsession" is my personal choice, dictated by my moral.
And my morality is not perversion. Mine is a COHERENT choice: I am a virgin and I want a virgin girl. Where is perversion? Where is the hellfire?

If you're fine with a non-virgin girl, well, you're free to choose who you want. But stop, please, call my choice "obsession / perversion".

And stop called my intention "corrupted". If you arent agree with my choice, please, stay out by my topic. As i dont judge your choices, as you dont have to do with mine.

- - - Updated - - -



The best solution would be to follow the rules of Islam, and be consistent.
Nobody obliges anyone to have sex, having sex is a deliberate and premeditated choice. When you have sex (out of wedlock) you know you're sinning, so why then regret it all?
Maybe in this case, the parents and relatives should be more present.

In this way faithful people, especially the new generations, think that religion is like a videogames, a virtual world.

I would not want this mechanism of thought to take off: "we all have a pass, a wildcard for sex. we do it, we enjoy it, and then we apologize."

So I tell you: doing so, the value of premarital virginity will be totally lost. Nobody will marry virgin and chaste, because everyone has used that "wildcard".
What you will do if you don't find a virgin girl..?
Will you not marry..?
Reply

ChosenTCO
03-21-2018, 04:11 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
Unfortunately there is the risk that a vicious circle is created.
I repeat my question : why should a person expect marriage before having sex if God will forgives her/his sin?

A girl who wants to wait for marriage, reading and listening to such stories, could fall into temptation. She could ask herself "If God has forgiven my friends, He will also forgive me".

In this way Islam loses credibility, but God risks to lose his supremacy.

Take me, for example: many muslim people have told me that when a Catholic converts to Islam, it is as if he born again, all sins are erased.
Following this philosophy, then I could do this: have fun with all the possible girls..but even drink, smoke, drug. In short, enjoy my life in all its transgressions.
Afterwards, convert me to Islam and say "Hey, I'm a new person! I've become pure! That's because God forgives me!".
I dont think it will be correct: losing my virginity would be like taking away something that belongs to my wife, it would be my gift to tell her that she is so special to have waited so many years.

And then, some genius, has the courage to tell me that my intentions are corrupt or that I am a pervert.

Anyway, under the religious side I dont know what could be done, but under the moral / human profile yes: simply, dont hide/fix our past.
Dont look for subterfuges to return virgins physically or do "alternative things", dont pretend to be who we arent.
It is a marriage that can last even 50-60 years.
It would be enough to talk about it serenely, look in the eyes each other, and then decide "Yes, we are compatible" or "No, we are too different".

- - - Updated - - -



Now I ask you a question: if you were a boy, how would you act?
You cant ask intimate questions, but at the same time you do not know if she is the right girl for you.

If all the Muslim girls followed the Islamic rules, what reason would I have to ask some questions? To ask about the sexual past would be stupid, useless, offensive. Because it's obvious that any girl had a boyfriend before. And what intrigues me are the married marriages: how is this topic treated between the two future spouses?

And in fact, when I read the Koran and Islamic traditions, I felt relieved: it would be enough to find a good Muslim girl (obviously a practicing) and finally I would find serenity and salvation.

But internet and Google showed me a very different reality. I've read stories that made me lose all certainty.

I personally believe that it is absolutely 100% your right to look for a virgin so long as you are one. And i would advise you to not let anyone tell you any different.The only thing that i can see you've got wrong is the concept of forgiveness in islam. Its not quite how you've described it.

First off, if a person thinks that he is sinning and continues to sin on the bases that he will repent afterwards then this will obviously not be considered as a sincere repentance (The only time it would be, is if the repentance was full of regret and grief). Regardless, even if it was accepted, that does not negate the consquence and the after affects these sin will have on the persons world affairs ... For example: if a virgin loses their virginity by choice and then sincerely regretted it, their repentance would be accepted, BUT still this individual would have LOST their right to ask for a virgin partner. So an element of consequence would still exist in their worldly affairs, even if their repentance was accepted and what not. I mean heck, even if the person does it in the halal way and loses their virginity in the halal but then wants to marry another, they dont have the right to demand for a virgin as they themselves aren't one anymore ... So its not about whether their v-card was used in the halal or haram ... onces its used, you cant demand for a virgin as well (not because its sinful to do so, but because your not qualified. However, its still ok if the individual demands a virgin when he is not ... only thing is that he probably won't find one that would accept him since he lost his, And if he does then its probably out of luck and not because he "deserves" it).

Secondly, i dont want you to be deterred away from islam because of a few judgmental comments made against you. You should know that no group on the face of this earth is free from such individuals who like to judge and whip people with their words. So dont be affected by them and let their judgments go straight through one ear and out the other ;D

Thirdly, the reason why these individual passed some of these harsh words is because they probably didnt want you to be interested in islam solely because of your interest for a pure, virgin partner and what not. They wanted you to be interested in islam for what it mainly offers of truth and salvation, not out of world and materialistic reasons, so in a way their intentions are good. However, i personally believe that it is completely fine to have a worldly reason for your interest in islam. It may be what leads you to become a true muslim and one that is even better than those individuals themselves. Surely after what you've seen of islam's noble teaching about purity and chastity would get you interested to learn more about our beliefs and other things in it. Mayhaps this would be the opening for your heart towards islam:statisfie

Lastly, i would like to repeat that it is completely 100% your right to ask for a virgin and that there is nothing wrong with that. However, i just wanted to direct your attention towards the fact that purity and chastity isnt a reliable measuring unit of how successful your marriage towards that chaste person would be, nor is it a reliable measure of how likely they are to be satisfied with you. Also, dont put great value on a thing that is not meant to have the amount of value you are giving it, because if you lose your virginity (even in the halal) but for some reason need to marry another, you wont be too heartbroken that you cant get a virgin like before.
Again, im NOT saying that virginity is not an indication of how likely she is to be satisfied and loving towards you, instead what im trying to say is that is it not 100% reliable indicator. I mean, i too dont intend to marry a non virgin as i know that virgins are much more accepting, loving, and more loyal towards first partners. However, if i find one (non-v) that truly loves me more than any virgin then ofc i would marry her in a heartbeat <3.

In essence, what you seek is totally reasonable and acceptable to ask for. However, putting too much value on that factor maybe a bit dangerous ... Anyways bro, hope you find what your looking for :) SALAM!

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Scimitar
well, that's ten mins i wont be getting back
hhahaha xD ... But to be honest though, he does have a fair point. I wouldnt want to marry a person who looks like a pious girl but is secretly a hoe. And when you look at the world today and whats happening in it, more and more girls are starting to adopt this 2 faced life
Reply

Artic090
03-22-2018, 06:35 AM
Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
I personally believe that it is absolutely 100% your right to look for a virgin so long as you are one. And i would advise you to not let anyone tell you any different.The only thing that i can see you've got wrong is the concept of forgiveness in islam. Its not quite how you've described it.

First off, if a person thinks that he is sinning and continues to sin on the bases that he will repent afterwards then this will obviously not be considered as a sincere repentance (The only time it would be, is if the repentance was full of regret and grief). Regardless, even if it was accepted, that does not negate the consquence and the after affects these sin will have on the persons world affairs ...
Hi friend, thank you for your support words. I share what you said.
Regarding the "Islamic forgiveness" I wanted to specify my thoughts through the involution of the Catholic religion.

Up to 50-60 years ago the Catholic religion was very much similar to the Islamic religion (especially in Southern Italy). The traditions regarding sentimental and sexual life were very rigid:

1) Women wore a veil over their heads and long robes;
2) In church women and men could not sit next to each other;
3) The girls always had to go out accompanied by mothers, aunts, grandmothers;
4) A boy could not go out with a girl. If he wanted to go with her, he had to ask her father for permission;
5) Obviously premarital sex was not allowed, a girl who was no longer a virgin seriously risked being alone for life ...


What happened?
The sexual revolution of '68, the advance of feminism, the advent of technology has changed people's habits.
The Catholic religion has undergone strong changes, Catholic people have rebelled against certain positions and have begun to transgress under the motto "Jesus forgives all, Jesus never will judge you about your sexual life"....

Everything is changed, especially under the sexual aspect. Everyone is free to do what he wants, the value of virginity is absolutely lost, divorces have increased dramatically, having children out of wedlock is very normal.

If even in Islam the idea spreads that "whatever you do, Allah forgives everyone", who will believe more in the value of virginity and chastity? How many men and how many Muslim women will be pure at marriage?
Islam is characterized by the strong value of purity (as was also the Catholic religion), but we do not risk distorting everything?

It is the people who should follow religion, it is not religion that has to adapt to people.
Reply

azc
03-22-2018, 07:44 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
Hi friend, thank you for your support words. I share what you said.
Regarding the "Islamic forgiveness" I wanted to specify my thoughts through the involution of the Catholic religion.

Up to 50-60 years ago the Catholic religion was very much similar to the Islamic religion (especially in Southern Italy). The traditions regarding sentimental and sexual life were very rigid:

1) Women wore a veil over their heads and long robes;
2) In church women and men could not sit next to each other;
3) The girls always had to go out accompanied by mothers, aunts, grandmothers;
4) A boy could not go out with a girl. If he wanted to go with her, he had to ask her father for permission;
5) Obviously premarital sex was not allowed, a girl who was no longer a virgin seriously risked being alone for life ...


What happened?
The sexual revolution of '68, the advance of feminism, the advent of technology has changed people's habits.
The Catholic religion has undergone strong changes, Catholic people have rebelled against certain positions and have begun to transgress under the motto "Jesus forgives all, Jesus never will judge you about your sexual life"....

Everything is changed, especially under the sexual aspect. Everyone is free to do what he wants, the value of virginity is absolutely lost, divorces have increased dramatically, having children out of wedlock is very normal.

If even in Islam the idea spreads that "whatever you do, Allah forgives everyone", who will believe more in the value of virginity and chastity? How many men and how many Muslim women will be pure at marriage?
Islam is characterized by the strong value of purity (as was also the Catholic religion), but we do not risk distorting everything?

It is the people who should follow religion, it is not religion that has to adapt to people.
majority of girls is still virgin in our society in contrast to western society.
Reply

Eric H
03-22-2018, 08:25 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Artic090;

Up to 50-60 years ago the Catholic religion was very much similar to the Islamic religion (especially in Southern Italy). The traditions regarding sentimental and sexual life were very rigid:
Sadly I think you are right, there are far too many temptations for youngsters today, and I feel society has suffered. Marriage has lost its meaning, in the UK, when children get to fifteen, about half of them are not with both their biological parents. Staying together is one of the hardest things we do in life, and with each passing generation, there seems to be fewer good role models.

Don't give up with your struggles to do the right thing, you are probably going to feel fairly isolated with your strong beliefs. Somehow trends have to be reversed, pray for guidance, courage and help to do the right thing.

May God bless you on your journey,
Eric
Reply

Umme salma
03-22-2018, 12:26 PM
the right person wont lie, but i think what most are saying, we hope you do find someone who has never been married and who is chaste, not touched yet by no man, as agree you have every right as you yourself have kept your self pure.. there are people out there who havnt fallen for the trend intimacy before marriage.. and have similar level of faith as yourself.... but you may find a sister who before even coming to islam, may have had relationships that may be your compatible partner that you may be missing out on because you are so focused on if she has been touched... again purity means a woman who is loyal committed, faithful and respectful, may have had a relationship, but in a pure way, ...so you may need to open your horizons, also look into these characteristics .. who and what she is now, is what is important.. perfection in the way we think doesnt exist... the prophet married, and was pure, chaste himself, a divorcee who was married before.. what we are saying dont limit your own choices, because you may just miss the One who is who actually the character your also desiring, which is far more important, due to your perception of preference.. (virgin) and i do agree with all who have said, do not come to islam, if it is to marry a chaste woman, but rather because you have recognised that islam is the religion you feel inclined towards because you have recognised its truth and know it is the God you love.. when we come any religion if we do it for a human being... and that human being disappoints us, because we attach our faith to them.. that faith is not based on God.. but a weak faulty human being.. as we are not absolute angels... we are human beings..so if that relationship doesnt work, will you then turn your back on Allaah.. ? i think these are crucial questions to ponder on.. and in your heart know, you will be tested to see wht you say, and we infact truly hold true.. becomes manifested in our reality.. so do take good time, don't rush,or panic.. keep religion first in your mind and heart, and marriage second... as people can get married later, but there is only ONE God, irrelevant how people may perceive HIm.. its a big step..i have christian friends, who i do love, because they are searching for truth and great people, believers in my eyes.. as the level of spiritually and expansion is there.. just have been effected so much by media and what the controversies create, that have them questioning the cultural islam.. but they know God in fact better than most muslims, (because sadly we are going through the same issues, that people of the book also went through, but we have forgotten that messages were for us prewarning what takes place..when we follow blindly without using our intellect and reasoning) i would say please do meditate deeply, as everyone here is genuinely wanting the best for you... and can forsee if you come to accepting islam based on wanting to marrying a pakistani lady who is chaste.. and if it doesnt work, what does that mean for you? these are hypothetical questions but needed ones to be asked so you can check your own truth/ faith.. best wishes with whatever you decide..
Reply

Artic090
03-23-2018, 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by azc
What you will do if you don't find a virgin girl..?
Will you not marry..?
Brother, how could I marry a girl who is not compatible with me? I believe that marriage should be based on two people who have ideals, characters and similar values.
I cant risk marrying a girl I could not love as she deserves to be loved. I dont want to suffer and make other people suffer.

Originally Posted by azc
majority of girls is still virgin in our society in contrast to western society.
This is the biggest problem!
I dont belong to your society. I live in the west.
If I had lived in some Muslim country (Morocco, Tunisia, Iran, Pakistan ...) I would have had more possibilities.
First, I could ask my parents and relatives for advice to help me find a good girl (which, as tradition, often happens in those countries), and then I would have the "mathematical certainty" that sooner or later I would find the right girl for me. In short, it is true that even in conservative Muslim countries things are changing (unfortunately), but it is also true that there are still so many girls linked to religion who dream of a romantic and traditional style wedding.

Here in Italy I could easily find a Muslim girl. I repeat, Muslim. But really a practitioner?
I read on the internet testimonies about Muslim girls living in the US, Canada, the UK and even here in Europe ... I read stories that really made me feel bad. And they were all practitioners, and not Muslims of birth or family traditions.

This is why I began to think: "If I had to meet a Muslim girl, I have to consider that she probably acquired Western ideals and mentality". In addition, I dont have references, I dont exactly how and where to meet Muslim girls and to choose who one is right for me.

What to say?
I'm running away from Western/Christian reality, I discovered Islam and knocked on its door. Nobody is going to open me. And I feel as if behind that door there were the same ghosts from which I escaped...
Reply

azc
03-23-2018, 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
Brother, how could I marry a girl who is not compatible with me? I believe that marriage should be based on two people who have ideals, characters and similar values.
I cant risk marrying a girl I could not love as she deserves to be loved. I dont want to suffer and make other people suffer.



This is the biggest problem!
I dont belong to your society. I live in the west.
If I had lived in some Muslim country (Morocco, Tunisia, Iran, Pakistan ...) I would have had more possibilities.
First, I could ask my parents and relatives for advice to help me find a good girl (which, as tradition, often happens in those countries), and then I would have the "mathematical certainty" that sooner or later I would find the right girl for me. In short, it is true that even in conservative Muslim countries things are changing (unfortunately), but it is also true that there are still so many girls linked to religion who dream of a romantic and traditional style wedding.

Here in Italy I could easily find a Muslim girl. I repeat, Muslim. But really a practitioner?
I read on the internet testimonies about Muslim girls living in the US, Canada, the UK and even here in Europe ... I read stories that really made me feel bad. And they were all practitioners, and not Muslims of birth or family traditions.

This is why I began to think: "If I had to meet a Muslim girl, I have to consider that she probably acquired Western ideals and mentality". In addition, I dont have references, I dont exactly how and where to meet Muslim girls and to choose who one is right for me.

What to say?
I'm running away from Western/Christian reality, I discovered Islam and knocked on its door. Nobody is going to open me. And I feel as if behind that door there were the same ghosts from which I escaped...
Bro, I advise you to visit any masjid/Islamic centre and put your issue before them
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-23-2018, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Artic090
Brother, how could I marry a girl who is not compatible with me? I believe that marriage should be based on two people who have ideals, characters and similar values.
I cant risk marrying a girl I could not love as she deserves to be loved. I dont want to suffer and make other people suffer.



This is the biggest problem!
I dont belong to your society. I live in the west.
If I had lived in some Muslim country (Morocco, Tunisia, Iran, Pakistan ...) I would have had more possibilities.
First, I could ask my parents and relatives for advice to help me find a good girl (which, as tradition, often happens in those countries), and then I would have the "mathematical certainty" that sooner or later I would find the right girl for me. In short, it is true that even in conservative Muslim countries things are changing (unfortunately), but it is also true that there are still so many girls linked to religion who dream of a romantic and traditional style wedding.

Here in Italy I could easily find a Muslim girl. I repeat, Muslim. But really a practitioner?
I read on the internet testimonies about Muslim girls living in the US, Canada, the UK and even here in Europe ... I read stories that really made me feel bad. And they were all practitioners, and not Muslims of birth or family traditions.

This is why I began to think: "If I had to meet a Muslim girl, I have to consider that she probably acquired Western ideals and mentality". In addition, I dont have references, I dont exactly how and where to meet Muslim girls and to choose who one is right for me.

What to say?
I'm running away from Western/Christian reality, I discovered Islam and knocked on its door. Nobody is going to open me. And I feel as if behind that door there were the same ghosts from which I escaped...
Lol not morocco. Im moroccan and im horrified at whats happening there. Girls freely date smoke etc there( same for the men sadly) and prayer seems to be neglected entirely by some.
Reply

azc
03-24-2018, 07:05 AM
Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
Lol not morocco. Im moroccan and im horrified at whats happening there. Girls freely date smoke etc there( same for the men sadly) and prayer seems to be neglected entirely by some.
More or less similar situation is in several other Muslim countries as well
Reply

Artic090
03-24-2018, 07:30 AM
Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
Lol not morocco. Im moroccan and im horrified at whats happening there. Girls freely date smoke etc there( same for the men sadly) and prayer seems to be neglected entirely by some.
You are right. Unfortunatelly, you are right.

I heard (and read) not very good things about the situation in Morocco. I was shocked about girls with hijabs, which should fully represent the value of purity (hijab should be a guarantee seal for women who decide to wear it, otherwise why should they wear it?)
In any case, I believe that the situation in Morocco is the same than other North African countries such as Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt: did European air influence? Just see also Turkey, for example.

We also add that the Iranian girls are influenced by the Zoroastrian religion and a still Westernized mentality (up to 40 years ago Iran was a "semi-European" country for its lifestyle), the Pakistani girls influenced by a Hindu mentality (very open on these aspects)... in short, hard times for boys who want a pure girl.

Seriously, I wonder ... Where are the parents? Where are the brothers who should watch over the sisters? Where are the "wali"?
I also wonder if Muslim men still want to marry a "pure" wife and if Muslim women also want to marry a "pure" husband, because seeing this kind of behavior, it seems that nobody cares!

Especially the boys, when they manage to have a girlfriend, they should think "And if the same happens to my sister, I would be happy about this?"
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-24-2018, 11:13 AM
Originally Posted by Artic090
You are right. Unfortunatelly, you are right.

I heard (and read) not very good things about the situation in Morocco. I was shocked about girls with hijabs, which should fully represent the value of purity (hijab should be a guarantee seal for women who decide to wear it, otherwise why should they wear it?)
In any case, I believe that the situation in Morocco is the same than other North African countries such as Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt: did European air influence? Just see also Turkey, for example.

We also add that the Iranian girls are influenced by the Zoroastrian religion and a still Westernized mentality (up to 40 years ago Iran was a "semi-European" country for its lifestyle), the Pakistani girls influenced by a Hindu mentality (very open on these aspects)... in short, hard times for boys who want a pure girl.

Seriously, I wonder ... Where are the parents? Where are the brothers who should watch over the sisters? Where are the "wali"?
I also wonder if Muslim men still want to marry a "pure" wife and if Muslim women also want to marry a "pure" husband, because seeing this kind of behavior, it seems that nobody cares!

Especially the boys, when they manage to have a girlfriend, they should think "And if the same happens to my sister, I would be happy about this?"
All over the muslim world stuff is happening sadly. Of course there will be plenty of good people in these countries too though.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-04-2017, 08:58 PM
  2. Replies: 55
    Last Post: 12-24-2011, 08:37 PM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-30-2010, 01:15 PM
  4. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 01-22-2008, 03:51 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!