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Reminder
03-06-2018, 03:08 AM
As we know, Prophet Muhammad and companions (pbut) were almost vegetarian.

There are many confused these days (mostly kufar who think they are doing good) who condemn meat-eaters as evil, ignorant, etc.

To protect yourself from them, simply ask this: Aside from providing life to us (Humans), what better deed does an average chicken while alive on Earth?
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Edit: The point is, Allah provides animals such as chickens and cows a way to do something good without them even knowing (by providing their meat to give us life).
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Zafran
03-06-2018, 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by Reminder
To protect yourself from them, simply ask this: Aside from providing life to us (Humans), what better deed does an average chicken while alive on Earth?
I believe the reason why they dont like meat eaters is because animals are sentient beings (they suffer) so if something suffers that is bad (this is a form of utilitarianism).

You can object on 2 grounds 1 - is that suffering doesnt always equal bad eg surgery or going to the doctor or risking your life for the greater good.
2 - the animal is not like the human as the human is rational moral, existential, political creature.

This is not so with any animals and many animals can be very dangerous eg snakes and lions etc.

However looking at the modern meat industry of killing animals on mass and breeding them for human consumption on an unprecedented scale - this is a fair point. The prophet Muhammad pbuh was against untold suffering of animals and there are many hadiths that condemn people of torturing animals.

Historically meat was rear and food was scarce and when Muslims did consume animals it was on specific occasions (eg eid al ada) but it was a luxury and not the norm. Not like today.
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Reminder
03-06-2018, 03:55 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
I believe the reason why they dont like meat eaters is because animals are sentient beings (they suffer) so if something suffers that is bad (this is a form of utilitarianism).

You can object on 2 grounds 1 - is that suffering doesnt always equal bad eg surgery or going to the doctor or risking your life for the greater good.
2 - the animal is not like the human as the human is rational moral, existential, political creature.

This is not so with any animals and many animals can be very dangerous eg snakes and lions etc.

However looking at the modern meat industry of killing animals on mass and breeding them for human consumption on an unprecedented scale - this is a fair point. The prophet Muhammad pbuh was against untold suffering of animals and there are many hadiths that condemn people of torturing animals.

Historically meat was rear and food was scarce and when Muslims did consume animals it was on specific occasions (eg eid al ada) but it was a luxury and not the norm. Not like today.
Yes, and it's still based on ignorance. As they don't know that we (Muslims) and Jews slaughter animals in a good way, with respect and consciously, not like the others.

Anyways, even those mass-produced animals are better off being slaughtered & eaten by us than die naturally having done no good.

And how amazing is God that He provides these wild beasts a way to do good even when they can't do it themselves?
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cinnamonrolls1
03-06-2018, 04:15 AM
Protection? What are they gonna do attack you?
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Zafran
03-06-2018, 04:15 AM
Originally Posted by Reminder
Yes, and it's still based on ignorance. As they don't know that we (Muslims) and Jews slaughter animals in a good way, with respect and consciously, not like the others.
They believe any suffering of animals is bad and humans dont need meat anymore. Its not due to ignorance.


Originally Posted by Reminder
Anyways, even those mass-produced animals are better off being slaughtered & eaten by us than die naturally having done no good.
I disagree there is a big problem with mass slaughter of animals. Historically animals were looked after and were treated much better then just being used to for consumption. Today its unparalleled slaughter of animals.

- - - Updated - - -
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Ümit
03-06-2018, 09:07 AM
Originally Posted by Reminder
As we know, Prophet Muhammad and companions (pbut) were almost vegetarian.

There are many confused these days (mostly kufar who think they are doing good) who condemn meat-eaters as evil, ignorant, etc.

To protect yourself from them, simply ask this: Aside from providing life to us (Humans), what better deed does an average chicken while alive on Earth?
You can ask that about every other animal on Earth.
How about flies, rats, snakes, insects, spiders, cats, dogs, reptiles, birds of prey, bears, lions, tigers, hyena's, etc...
what good deeds do they have? we cannot eat them...so they have no good deeds at all right?
So just go ahead and kill them then...they are useless anyways right?

WRONG!! every animal on Earth is created to serve us, directly or indirectly. we may not always know it's purpose, but it is there.


Originally Posted by Reminder
Yes, and it's still based on ignorance. As they don't know that we (Muslims) and Jews slaughter animals in a good way, with respect and consciously, not like the others.

Anyways, even those mass-produced animals are better off being slaughtered & eaten by us than die naturally having done no good.

And how amazing is God that He provides these wild beasts a way to do good even when they can't do it themselves?
Sorry but this is nonsence. animals do not have good or bad deeds, they just fullfill their task...and something that just does what it is designed for, cannot be bad or useless.
and sorry but Halal meat is so much more than "slaughtering an animal in some way"
It is about taking care of your animals, not to neglect them, giving them enough to eat and drink. treat them when they are sick or injured.
do not give them stress nor abuse them. do not harm them in every other way.
So mass producing animals is not a very good thing.
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Reminder
03-06-2018, 09:19 AM
Originally Posted by umie
...
Did you even read what I wrote? Seriously...

WRONG!! every animal on Earth is created to serve us, directly or indirectly. we may not always know it's purpose, but it is there.
The point is we eat chickens (and cows, lamb, etc.). I thought this was obvious, apparently not (to you, at least).

Sorry but this is nonsence. animals do not have good or bad deeds, they just fullfill their task...and something that just does what it is designed for, cannot be bad or useless.
and sorry but Halal meat is so much more than "slaughtering an animal in some way"
It is about taking care of your animals, not to neglect them, giving them enough to eat and drink. treat them when they are sick or injured.
do not give them stress nor abuse them. do not harm them in every other way.
So mass producing animals is not a very good thing.
Again, did you not read what I wrote?

we (Muslims) and Jews slaughter animals in a good way, with respect and consciously, not like the others.

Where do I say we "slaughter an animal in some way"?

On behalf of everyone here, don't put words in our mouths.
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Ümit
03-06-2018, 10:44 AM
I did read your posts brother, but obviously, you did not read mine.
You gave us the advise to give this answer to "them": "Aside from providing life to us (Humans), what better deed does an average chicken while alive on Earth?"
What answer do you expect here? we do not know the exact purpose of most animals...but undoubtly, every animal has its own purpose.
we may know some of the purposes of farm animals...thats all.
So this is not a valid question to ask which you gave us as an advise.
Originally Posted by Reminder
And how amazing is God that He provides these wild beasts a way to do good even when they can't do it themselves?
Who says they cannot do good deed themselves? They just do exactly what they are designed and created for which is per definition "good". they have no other choice.
Angels also do exactly what they are designed to do. they also cannot refuse or reject. they just do what they need to do...so in that case animals are in no other position than angels.
and for the same reason, the phrase
Originally Posted by Reminder
Anyways, even those mass-produced animals are better off being slaughtered & eaten by us than die naturally having done no good.
is not correct.
they are doing good from the first moments on earth untill its last breath...whether they are eaten by us or not....every animal...
It certainly does not justify us to put those poor animals in too small cages, giving them no room to move etc.

Originally Posted by Reminder
Again, did you not read what I wrote?

we (Muslims) and Jews slaughter animals in a good way, with respect and consciously, not like the others.

Where do I say we "slaughter an animal in some way"?

On behalf of everyone here, don't put words in our mouths.
I did not say you said we slaughter animals in some way!!
you are misinterpreting my post.

what I did say (or meant to say is this):
You only mentioned slaughtering animals in a good way with respect and consiously...but Halal meat is much deeper than slaughtereing in a correct way.
It is about treating an animal correctly during its entire life....give them enough to eat and drink, etc.
I am not putting words in your mouth nor in anyone elses mouth...you just happen to feel attacked.
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Misbah-Abd
03-06-2018, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by Reminder
As we know, Prophet Muhammad and companions (pbut) were almost vegetarian.

There are many confused these days (mostly kufar who think they are doing good) who condemn meat-eaters as evil, ignorant, etc.

To protect yourself from them, simply ask this: Aside from providing life to us (Humans), what better deed does an average chicken while alive on Earth?
-
Edit: The point is, Allah provides animals such as chickens and cows a way to do something good without them even knowing (by providing their meat to give us life).
On the contrary, the Prophet s.a.a.w and the people in his days ate a lot of meat. There was no variety of vegetables. In fact when Abu Bakr was Caliph, he wanted the Shura to allow him one goat a day to feed his family.
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cinnamonrolls1
03-06-2018, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
On the contrary, the Prophet s.a.a.w and the people in his days ate a lot of meat. There was no variety of vegetables. In fact when Abu Bakr was Caliph, he wanted the Shura to allow him one goat a day to feed his family.
I thought the prophet pbuh didnt eat a lot of meat?... Either way eating a lot of meat isnt very healthy
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Reminder
03-06-2018, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
On the contrary, the Prophet s.a.a.w and the people in his days ate a lot of meat. There was no variety of vegetables. In fact when Abu Bakr was Caliph, he wanted the Shura to allow him one goat a day to feed his family.
Bro this info is untrue. It is widely known that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) only ate meat once a month (if that).
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Misbah-Abd
03-06-2018, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by Reminder
Bro this info is untrue. It is widely known that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) only ate meat once a month (if that).
And that was out of not having the meat to eat it. There were times when the Prophet s.a.a.w. and his companions would be near starving, even tying rocks around their stomachs to alleviate the hunger.
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keiv
03-06-2018, 11:15 PM
For me it's simple. If eating meat is Islamically acceptable and I choose to eat meat, there is no explanation necessary. If someone chooses not to eat meat, that's their choice as well. I know there are those types of people out there who bash meat eaters, but who cares. Haters gonna hate :shade:
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Misbah-Abd
03-06-2018, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by keiv
For me it's simple. If eating meat is Islamically acceptable and I choose to eat meat, there is no explanation necessary. If someone chooses not to eat meat, that's their choice as well. I know there are those types of people out there who bash meat eaters, but who cares. Haters gonna hate :shade:
True, but there should be no Muslim meat bashers since Allah permitted it and created livestock to eat it.
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Zzz_
03-07-2018, 02:42 AM
What's the point of this thread?

seek protection from vegans? meaning how to defend yourself from them?

if so, does one even need to defend themselves?

I eat what I want, you eat what you want so what's it to you should suffice.

for islamic perspective see this: http://www.islamawareness.net/Nature/existence.html

for vegans, plants feel pain too, what will they do now?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/mikko..._b_932305.html

https://www.theguardian.com/notesand...-83446,00.html
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/x...-feel-pain-302
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Karl
03-07-2018, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by Reminder
As we know, Prophet Muhammad and companions (pbut) were almost vegetarian.

There are many confused these days (mostly kufar who think they are doing good) who condemn meat-eaters as evil, ignorant, etc.

To protect yourself from them, simply ask this: Aside from providing life to us (Humans), what better deed does an average chicken while alive on Earth?
-
Edit: The point is, Allah provides animals such as chickens and cows a way to do something good without them even knowing (by providing their meat to give us life).
You have a very anthropocentric viewpoint. Wouldn't it be more truthful to just admit to being evil when you eat poor slaughtered animals? It is very hard to be good all the time or evil all the time so generally people are a bit of both.
I tried to give up meat once but could not do it. Just not good enough I guess.
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keiv
03-20-2018, 01:06 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
True, but there should be no Muslim meat bashers since Allah permitted it and created livestock to eat it.
I agree
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