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Leela
03-15-2018, 06:10 PM
As you have just read ^ is it haram or halal for an unmarried Muslim girl to move out if she is being abused emotionally, physically and being neglected e.g. Not allowed to eat food everyone else is eating etc. This is causing her to be depressed & have anxiety since childhood and is also malnourished.

if she is allowed to move out is it haram for her to own a dog for protection and emotional support.
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Ümit
03-15-2018, 06:58 PM
So this girl wants to move out because she is being abused and neglected....and she feels so insecure that she needs a dog for protection?
Something tells me...this girl has a difficult personality which is the main cause of the conflicts at home...and this desire to have a dog was one of the items she and her parents could not agree about...
Am İ right?
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cinnamonrolls1
03-15-2018, 07:58 PM
If your being abused and neglected then you need to seek help. I dont see why a dog would be any help tho
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*charisma*
03-15-2018, 08:12 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

It would be impermissible for a girl to live alone without a mahrem. Also it makes no sense that food is one of the issues. If you're going to live alone, wouldn't you need to find a way to feed yourself and the dog you want to have? So why are you malnourished at all if you have the capabilities of nourishing yourself? And what is it you'd need protection from that you'd need a dog?

There are things which are not adding up here and this course of action seems quite immature. I wouldn't suggest any girl run away or move out of her family's home especially when there's no valid context.
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Misbah-Abd
03-15-2018, 08:49 PM
If this is serious and that girl lives in the U.S. she should contact Child Protective Services so they can investigate it.
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Ümit
03-15-2018, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
If this is serious and that girl lives in the U.S. she should contact Child Protective Services so they can investigate it.
So imagine you have a major conflict with your parents. They neglect you...they abuse you...
You have the opportunity to move out...and live on your own...if it is halal of course...but you do not want disappear so quitly...you want revenge...you want to see your parents burn...so you call child protective services and turn your parents in...

This is good advice according to you?
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Umme salma
03-15-2018, 10:29 PM
It is difficult for third parties to give a responsible answer one must know more facts....I do agree something doesn't add up, if the parents are abusive and neglectful...and the girl feels she has no choice but to move, and making that choice for herself, I don't see how having a dog would be a conflict.... personally we don't know the young lass or her parents... so no-one can make a sound judgment or give clear advice..or options that may help both parents and young person to find the middle ground and compromise... our days had a different respect and valued our parents guidance...now days children feel they should be able to explore clubbing, drinking, dating freely, taking drugs and parents have to set harsher boundaries.... and for a young person that cannot seen as abuse....both parents working can be seen as neglect... where the need of having a dog for protection ...it's not a haram or halal matter...rather what is reasonable and sensible for her circumstance....this is where family mediators come in handy, who have enough information from both sides to help support the right decision ...and hope that's the avenue she looks into..

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Little confused how this ended up here..lol sorry was meant for the another post I wrote under, will delete the above not to cause confusion.. saying this brother ...heartbreak isn't an easy thing to deal with..and today to you get generation do not know what commitment actually means...and therefor as young people are so desperately looking for love ...they have yet to learn about love....in this situation my young friend...you have every reason to request she doesn't contact you as you need this time to continue healing from the heartbreak... we can make things easy for ourselves or difficult....if you feel it is hindering your process ...don't be afraid to request for no contact... sometimes we are a catalyst for one another to come close to God and coming to understand the reality of life and how Devine structure wishes to protect us...always ask for guidance from Allaah...you will find peace in it...
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Misbah-Abd
03-15-2018, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by umie
So imagine you have a major conflict with your parents. They neglect you...they abuse you...
You have the opportunity to move out...and live on your own...if it is halal of course...but you do not want disappear so quitly...you want revenge...you want to see your parents burn...so you call child protective services and turn your parents in...

This is good advice according to you?
I said "IF THIS IS SERIOUS" I don't know if English is your primary language since you live in Germany but my statement contained a condition. And if it is true then she as a minor has a right to contact authorities so they can determine the seriousness of it.
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Umme salma
03-15-2018, 10:30 PM
It is difficult for third parties to give a responsible answer one must know more facts....I do agree something doesn't add up, if the parents are abusive and neglectful...and the girl feels she has no choice but to move, and making that choice for herself, I don't see how having a dog would be a conflict.... personally we don't know the young lass or her parents... so no-one can make a sound judgment or give clear advice..or options that may help both parents and young person to find the middle ground and compromise... our days had a different respect and valued our parents guidance...now days children feel they should be able to explore clubbing, drinking, dating freely, taking drugs and parents have to set harsher boundaries.... and for a young person that cannot seen as abuse....both parents working can be seen as neglect... where the need of having a dog for protection ...it's not a haram or halal matter...rather what is reasonable and sensible for her circumstance....this is where family mediators come in handy, who have enough information from both sides to help support the right decision ...and hope that's the avenue she looks into..
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*charisma*
03-15-2018, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd
If this is serious and that girl lives in the U.S. she should contact Child Protective Services so they can investigate it.
I'd agree with you bro, but at the very least someone who has any issues with their family would try to find a solution first before thinking of leaving their family or reporting them. It seems like this could be a case of teen angst and she's looking for any excuse to leave and teach them a lesson. We don't know the full story though but by what is being stated, this doesn't seem too genuine. We don't know what she defines as physical or emotional abuse. Sometimes if a parent punishes or disciplines the child, it's seen that way.

If it were indeed abuse, then that's a different story of course, but there's a lot of alternatives to leaving the house. She could, for example, stay at a relatives house, seek help from a local masjid, speak to a counselor, etc.
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eesa the kiwi
03-16-2018, 08:56 AM
Why's everyone being a little harsh to op
Sometimes families can be brutal in the way they treat each other, maybe she needs to move out for her own sanity
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azc
03-16-2018, 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by Leela
As you have just read ^ is it haram or halal for an unmarried Muslim girl to move out if she is being abused emotionally, physically and being neglected e.g. Not allowed to eat food everyone else is eating etc. This is causing her to be depressed & have anxiety since childhood and is also malnourished.

if she is allowed to move out is it haram for her to own a dog for protection and emotional support.
Is it all happening with you in family
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Ümit
03-16-2018, 09:21 AM
Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi
Why's everyone being a little harsh to op
Sometimes families can be brutal in the way they treat each other, maybe she needs to move out for her own sanity
İ am not being harsh. İ agree...sometimes families can be brutal. İt may be the case here too...however...99% of the time both sides are more or less to blame.
İf you read through her story...it sounds legit at first sight...but then, when you read about the dog, it gets suspicious.
She is talking about abuse. She is talking about neglection. She talks about leaving the house...all three are heavy threats...a serious problem....
Then she talks about wanting a dog. She even thought about how to justify the dog...it protects and give comfort.
İ might be wrong on this one but according to me...this sounds like she is not telling the whole truth.
And of course...no one should be abused...and she should seek help if she really gets abused...
But İ would not advise her to move out and take a dog based on this story alone.

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Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi
Why's everyone being a little harsh to op
Sometimes families can be brutal in the way they treat each other, maybe she needs to move out for her own sanity
İ am not being harsh. İ agree...sometimes families can be brutal. İt may be the case here too...however...99% of the time both sides are more or less to blame.
İf you read through her story...it sounds legit at first sight...but then, when you read about the dog, it gets suspicious.
She is talking about abuse. She is talking about neglection. She talks about leaving the house...all three are heavy threats...a serious problem....
Then she talks about wanting a dog. She even thought about how to justify the dog...it protects and give comfort.
İ might be wrong on this one but according to me...this sounds like she is not telling the whole truth.
And of course...no one should be abused...and she should seek help if she really gets abused...
But İ would not advise her to move out and take a dog based on this story alone.
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Misbah-Abd
03-16-2018, 10:01 AM
There is too many people with mental health problems these days, especially in the U.S.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ow/1056366001/

Parents accused of torturing 13 kids dreamed of reality show
David and Louise Turpin dreamed of becoming household names through a reality show that focused on a large, picturesque family, relative says....
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Umme salma
03-16-2018, 12:36 PM
Islam is not impractical... we live in reality..the real world where I'm sure many people in the past lived by themselves, not everyone has family nor friends who will take responsibility...most problems we face today are not new, again haram and halal the issue here.....we can't make everything haram or halal...there are clear mentions what harm and halal are in the Quran....Muslim's are making Islam far more complicated than it is...and hence further chaos is created for many matters...a woman travelled alone even then ..not everyone woman has a merham..so Islam will not discriminate..God doesn't...what complication man creates out of it is a different matter...the idea a lady being alone has nothing to do with halal or haram...so permissiblity isn't an issue, if it is to protect her from harm...we have to again review the reality and be practical..and a dog certainly isn't how sadly man has been bombarded or brainwashed to think..we do need to come out of some unreasonable thinking that doesn't match God's ways...the reason why Muslim's are so behind ...common sense becomes difficult because we deprive ourselves of reasonable thinking...
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Leela1
03-17-2018, 07:44 AM
Same girl let me elaborate a little bit, I live in the UK so if I move out I get help from the council to get food pay bills etc.

Ive been abused since childhood, and out of my siblings it was only me who has been abused.

What at I mean by emotional abuse is getting home from school, constantly told that I am fat (I've starved myself and lost a lot of weight now even tho I was skinny already I was a size 8) have been told that I've ruined my mothers life, that she doesn't want me, that she doesn't love me, that she would kill me if she could, that I am unworthy, that I will go to hell etc.

What at I mean by physical abuse is my mum would hit me using objects to the point that it would break, she did this since childhood, I self harmed as a child but I didn't know what it meant, I do now and I don't self harm. And just last month I didn't hear her calling my name, she pulled me by the hair dragged me out of bed, I was exposed from hip down, my dad was there and I was crying.

As for the neglect happened since childhood too but emotional abuse didn't start till I was a teen and that hurt me the most more than anything. I told my mum I was depressed and didn't realise she was emotionally abusing me until later on when we were learning about it. And guess what she didn't care I would go to her every single day hoping she would say something to me, anything! But she didn't.

She he said the only good thing I'll be is for marrying off, I've had to live with this my whole life, I've had depression and anxiety, she would never let me leave the house so I live in social isolation now I'm in college, and I can't take it anymore just last month I tried to hang myself.

Why I wanted a dog was if I live on my own I'll have no one to protect me, it would also help me emotionally because I'd have to get out of bed to help the dog (feed him, walk him etc)

does this add up now, my mood goes down every time I'm home and I can't take it anymore!
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Leela1
03-17-2018, 07:56 AM
I would like to add that I threatened to move out and all I got was a laugh, I got told that I will have no money (though I know I will) that I will come crawling back, I got told moving out will only ruin the family reputation that's all they care about NOT ME. That I will go to hell if I move out, I still want to stay in contact with them because their my family, I still care from regardless what they did to me, but they all told me if I move out that they will cut contact from me an that I can never come back. I know they care about family reputation since my aunt killed herself and they covered it up by saying it was an asthma attack.
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Umme salma
03-17-2018, 10:17 AM
hi sis, being a parent myself, im now privileged to see both sides, and one thing i do agree is this honour thing that is so drilled in us, there is an imbalance in understanding. i was having a difficult time letting go of my daughter to go to uni, its painful, why because she is my baby, and i cant protect her, she is left to the vulnerability of the elements, but her reasoning, level headedness and her pursuit in in what she wants to do, has given me the courage to not step in her way.. its not easy for a parent, because we feel responsible if something happends, we know we are going to deal with the 'i should have put my foot down' nagging voice.. i dont know your parents, but i know our thinking, parents will say things in anger, make stupid comments that are not mature,they also do have great fear, there are so many emotions going inside them, that yes seem selfish, but are really about protection and will use any way to protect and hence the control.. parents doesn't make us perfect.. where society is concerned yes, sadly it does have hindrance in our ability to grow.. speak to them with reason and if you retaliate it will only make things difficult, contemplate on your reasons, question if in yourself you also have been fairgiving, once upon a time we got smacked, even an odd shoe thrown, and we never saw it as wrong, because our parents wouldnt loose their temper until we knew when it happend, we did test them.. :) we knew where we claimed that right and it did get us to realise how we pushed their buttons.. they didnt do it to abuse, but to discipline, even though for children now adays that seems abuse, we actually knew, because we were loved, maybe that is why.... just at least, give yourself a little time, and observe how your also projecting yourself... is there anything that is also a contributory from your side that you can recognise that is rebelling see before you make up your mind... if your life is in danger, than by all means take the step, but remember the world out there isnt easy.. you will come across many shifty characters in sheeps clothing.. what i do see, is a child wanting so desperately to live under her own rules, i see this in my own daughter..and i could be very wrong, but learning to live with others prepares us for our future, when we marry, it teaches us to learn to give and take.. or in my better words with the more evolved souls, offering and receiving, as that is what takes place with such relationships.. Ask Guidance from Allaah always before making your decision, be honest and sincere with your own reasons.. and in sha Allaah i pray the best comes out of it for you..

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and for all concerned.. :)
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*charisma*
03-17-2018, 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by Leela1
Same girl let me elaborate a little bit, I live in the UK so if I move out I get help from the council to get food pay bills etc.

Ive been abused since childhood, and out of my siblings it was only me who has been abused.

What at I mean by emotional abuse is getting home from school, constantly told that I am fat (I've starved myself and lost a lot of weight now even tho I was skinny already I was a size 8) have been told that I've ruined my mothers life, that she doesn't want me, that she doesn't love me, that she would kill me if she could, that I am unworthy, that I will go to hell etc.

What at I mean by physical abuse is my mum would hit me using objects to the point that it would break, she did this since childhood, I self harmed as a child but I didn't know what it meant, I do now and I don't self harm. And just last month I didn't hear her calling my name, she pulled me by the hair dragged me out of bed, I was exposed from hip down, my dad was there and I was crying.

As for the neglect happened since childhood too but emotional abuse didn't start till I was a teen and that hurt me the most more than anything. I told my mum I was depressed and didn't realise she was emotionally abusing me until later on when we were learning about it. And guess what she didn't care I would go to her every single day hoping she would say something to me, anything! But she didn't.

She he said the only good thing I'll be is for marrying off, I've had to live with this my whole life, I've had depression and anxiety, she would never let me leave the house so I live in social isolation now I'm in college, and I can't take it anymore just last month I tried to hang myself.

Why I wanted a dog was if I live on my own I'll have no one to protect me, it would also help me emotionally because I'd have to get out of bed to help the dog (feed him, walk him etc)

does this add up now, my mood goes down every time I'm home and I can't take it anymore!
Having a bit more context helps. It seems your mom is controlling and I'm not making any excuses for her because what she's doing is wrong, however I still don't think running away is the solution. I'm wondering if you and your mom butt heads a lot compared to your other siblings? There's something you're not mentioning because it looks like your mom is reacting to your behavior or actions (not that what you're doing deserves that type of reaction) as if you leading a lifestyle she does not agree with compared to your siblings. Would you agree with that? I'm also going to guess your parents are not originally from the UK right? Maybe from your mom's perspective this is how she disciplines but she doesn't fully understand the implications of her methods.
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Leela1
03-17-2018, 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Having a bit more context helps. It seems your mom is controlling and I'm not making any excuses for her because what she's doing is wrong, however I still don't think running away is the solution. I'm wondering if you and your mom butt heads a lot compared to your other siblings? There's something you're not mentioning because it looks like your mom is reacting to your behavior or actions (not that what you're doing deserves that type of reaction) as if you leading a lifestyle she does not agree with compared to your siblings. Would you agree with that? I'm also going to guess your parents are not originally from the UK right? Maybe from your mom's perspective this is how she disciplines but she doesn't fully understand the implications of her methods.
No ive always listened to her, ALWAYS. It makes me sick that some people here think I'm some sort of rebellious teenager, I've been mature since I was 6, I've always listened to my parents. She just hits me for no reason, she also hit me when I've done things wrong like accidentally broke something as a kid which I understand was to teach myself a lesson. But to randomly hit me, and to eat my food off of my own piss when I wet the bed at the age of 6. Do you think that's excusable? See I've held this anger all my life now I feel like some sort of monster. If I shouldn't leave what should I do? Wait till I hang myself. Please just put yourself in my shoes for one second. Maybe the people who think I'm being stuck up are illicit and can't understand what I'm saying. 30% of those who are abused turn to abuse their own children I am one of those 30%. Now all I can ask is....is it haram or halal no one answered my question other than judge me I am almost 20 now, all you can think about is your life, I know the worlds is not easy I've been sexually assaulted before no one cares oOOo very surprised. NOT. Now answer my question so I can make a decision that can be life changing, I either stay and get married off to an old man because obviously I have no choice whilst being abused or see what the worlds has to offer
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Leela1
03-17-2018, 11:31 AM
If Islam allows this I do not think I can be in this religion anymore, I think to you my family's actions are excusable and you wouldn't care less, but to me it matters a lot.

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You and I are nothing alike. I do not test my mother. If I do, I know what's coming to me and I deserve what I will have to endure. I learnt that from a young age.

I am abused by the abused. I'm asking for guidance, someone to lead me in the right direction and light up the way. Help me. Not to accuse or judge me. Not to justify my family's behaviour.
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Umme salma
03-17-2018, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by Leela1
No ive always listened to her, ALWAYS. It makes me sick that some people here think I'm some sort of rebellious teenager, I've been mature since I was 6, I've always listened to my parents. She just hits me for no reason, she also hit me when I've done things wrong like accidentally broke something as a kid which I understand was to teach myself a lesson. But to randomly hit me, and to eat my food off of my own piss when I wet the bed at the age of 6. Do you think that's excusable? See I've held this anger all my life now I feel like some sort of monster. If I shouldn't leave what should I do? Wait till I hang myself. Please just put yourself in my shoes for one second. Maybe the people who think I'm being stuck up are illicit and can't understand what I'm saying. 30% of those who are abused turn to abuse their own children I am one of those 30%. Now all I can ask is....is it haram or halal no one answered my question other than judge me I am almost 20 now, all you can think about is your life, I know the worlds is not easy I've been sexually assaulted before no one cares oOOo very surprised. NOT. Now answer my question so I can make a decision that can be life changing, I either stay and get married off to an old man because obviously I have no choice whilst being abused or see what the worlds has to offer
its not haram to protect yourself, that is why im saying this isnt a matter of halal and haram .. but what must be done in order to continue a sanely life..and im sorry you have had to go through experiences as sexual abuse, there does seem to be by what you are relating a little more to your reality, i had not read your reply here.. to move out to protect ourselves can never be wrong.. if family hasnt stepped in,or you have tried, speak to someone who may be able to make your mum see how their behaviour is harming your relationship.. if you have tried these avenues.. you will leave with no regrets.. this part is important for you.. :) Good luck and best wishes..
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*charisma*
03-17-2018, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by Leela1
No ive always listened to her, ALWAYS. It makes me sick that some people here think I'm some sort of rebellious teenager, I've been mature since I was 6, I've always listened to my parents. She just hits me for no reason, she also hit me when I've done things wrong like accidentally broke something as a kid which I understand was to teach myself a lesson. But to randomly hit me, and to eat my food off of my own piss when I wet the bed at the age of 6. Do you think that's excusable? See I've held this anger all my life now I feel like some sort of monster. If I shouldn't leave what should I do? Wait till I hang myself. Please just put yourself in my shoes for one second. Maybe the people who think I'm being stuck up are illicit and can't understand what I'm saying. 30% of those who are abused turn to abuse their own children I am one of those 30%. Now all I can ask is....is it haram or halal no one answered my question other than judge me I am almost 20 now, all you can think about is your life, I know the worlds is not easy I've been sexually assaulted before no one cares oOOo very surprised. NOT. Now answer my question so I can make a decision that can be life changing, I either stay and get married off to an old man because obviously I have no choice whilst being abused or see what the worlds has to offer
No one is judging you, we are trying to get the full context of the situation because we don't know the full story and we can't tell you to leave your family just based on those couple of posts, do you understand? We also want to ensure that there are better alternatives because it is haram to sever ties of kinship. This is very clear in Islam. Mistreating your parents or causing them hardship is also haram. You are to treat them kindly EVEN IF they do not do the same. Allah says it in the QUran that even if they were KUFFAR, you have to be kind to them. To answer your question about whether or not it is haram for you to live alone, it absolutely is in the general scheme of things. Running away/moving out is not a viable solution. Therefore, we need to find a solution that will actually HELP you LONG TERM, not HARM you. I understand that you need a quick fix because you are just tired and broken and want a better life for yourself, well that's what we want for you as well, but you're basically making your LAST resort your FIRST option and it shouldn't be. You're looking at life through a very negative lens and it's because of all the terrible experiences you've had, so I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.


Originally Posted by Leela1
If Islam allows this I do not think I can be in this religion anymore, I think to you my family's actions are excusable and you wouldn't care less, but to me it matters a lot.

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You and I are nothing alike. I do not test my mother. If I do, I know what's coming to me and I deserve what I will have to endure. I learnt that from a young age.

I am abused by the abused. I'm asking for guidance, someone to lead me in the right direction and light up the way. Help me. Not to accuse or judge me. Not to justify my family's behaviour.
No one is making excuses for anyone. I asked questions because I'm trying to understand your family's mentality because what you wrote in your initial post is actually a reality for many people and it's "normal," especially when they are in their teenage years and are being distant and unruly, or their parents come from a different cultural background. You can't really blame us for your lack of information or get defensive. It's not fair. We can't judge your parents when they are not here to defend themselves, nor can we make an assessment when the full story isn't put out there. It took a few of your posts to actually get the gist of things.

Islam doesn't allow the abuse or oppression of anyone. It's clear that you need to heal from a lot of things and the people you require it from are not giving it to you. It's also clear you love your family but it's not reciprocated in the way it should be, or maybe you are waiting for THEM to reach out to you first. However do you legitimately think that leaving your family will be the BEST option for EVERYONE looking at the bigger picture? Or are you already at the point where you don't care anymore? Because at the very least I'd hope you'd want to do something that will please Allah whatever your course of action will be. So if we come to the conclusion that YES you should leave your family, we'd want you to do it in the proper way, and if moving out isn't the best solution, then we can ask ourselves how can we make it so that positive changes are made in your family home? Don't you think we could at least come to terms with that much?? I mean if say your family changed tomorrow, would you still want to leave??

Did you reach out to anyone like relatives, mediators, or counselors? Also does your family know about the sexual abuse?
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Leela1
03-17-2018, 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
No one is judging you, we are trying to get the full context of the situation because we don't know the full story and we can't tell you to leave your family just based on those couple of posts, do you understand? We also want to ensure that there are better alternatives because it is haram to sever ties of kinship. This is very clear in Islam. Mistreating your parents or causing them hardship is also haram. You are to treat them kindly EVEN IF they do not do the same. Allah says it in the QUran that even if they were KUFFAR, you have to be kind to them. To answer your question about whether or not it is haram for you to live alone, it absolutely is in the general scheme of things. Running away/moving out is not a viable solution. Therefore, we need to find a solution that will actually HELP you LONG TERM, not HARM you. I understand that you need a quick fix because you are just tired and broken and want a better life for yourself, well that's what we want for you as well, but you're basically making your LAST resort your FIRST option and it shouldn't be. You're looking at life through a very negative lens and it's because of all the terrible experiences you've had, so I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.




No one is making excuses for anyone. I asked questions because I'm trying to understand your family's mentality because what you wrote in your initial post is actually a reality for many people and it's "normal," especially when they are in their teenage years and are being distant and unruly, or their parents come from a different cultural background. You can't really blame us for your lack of information or get defensive. It's not fair. We can't judge your parents when they are not here to defend themselves, nor can we make an assessment when the full story isn't put out there. It took a few of your posts to actually get the gist of things.

Islam doesn't allow the abuse or oppression of anyone. It's clear that you need to heal from a lot of things and the people you require it from are not giving it to you. It's also clear you love your family but it's not reciprocated in the way it should be, or maybe you are waiting for THEM to reach out to you first. However do you legitimately think that leaving your family will be the BEST option for EVERYONE looking at the bigger picture? Or are you already at the point where you don't care anymore? Because at the very least I'd hope you'd want to do something that will please Allah whatever your course of action will be. So if we come to the conclusion that YES you should leave your family, we'd want you to do it in the proper way, and if moving out isn't the best solution, then we can ask ourselves how can we make it so that positive changes are made in your family home? Don't you think we could at least come to terms with that much?? I mean if say your family changed tomorrow, would you still want to leave??

Did you reach out to anyone like relatives, mediators, or counselors? Also does your family know about the sexual abuse?
they know everything if they were to change I'd stay but they won't, I'm sorry for acting like this but I just can't help it. I just don't know what to do, I won't be able to change my family ever. Im not gonna just run away I said in my last last post that I spoke to them about it and they said they'd cut contact from me however I would not do the same. So what's your solution I've had counselling but you have to understand I can't tell them what I've told you otherwise social services and police would get involved and I can't do that. But it's hard to clear your head and heal wounds when your still in the same situation unable to find a way out. I understand what you're saying, What would you suggest my first step to be?

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I would like to also add that my cousins saw how my family acted towards me and all of them tried to change what was happening but what they don't know is, this happens every day of my life, they thought this was a one off unfortunately I don't have family that I can go to, I can't go to my local mosque as this would be ruining the family's reputation as this is the last thing I want. Can everyone stop thinking it's me mistreating them and that's why they are doing it to me. It's nothing like that. Thank you.
Reply

hisnameiszzz
03-17-2018, 02:42 PM
Hi OP,

I am so sorry to hear about all the things that have been going on in your life and I can only apologise for that.

If you approached the Council and declared everything you have said on here, the Council will not give you a flat or a house immediately. You will most likely be placed into a hostel / women's refuge where there are staff who will be able to sit down and talk to you. I'm afraid hostels / women's refuges will not allow you to have a pet. I know you have mentioned you want to keep in touch with your family but please know they will not let you live anywhere near them. For instance, if you lived in Leeds, they would most likely place you in a women's refuge in Nottingham or Birmingham so you are not close to any danger.

A Council flat / house may come in time but also take into consideration all the caps on benefits and such like. It's not plain sailing. If you are on JSA or UC, you will hardly have much money left after all your bills are paid unless you work. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's not all flowers and butterflies if you move out.

But reading the above post where you have said you won't get the Police involved, the Council will most likely give you a very low banding and you won't get any accommodation in the near future, if at all. How do they know that you are being truthful about what you have said? They probably have 25 people present on a weekly basis with the same story. They have to follow it up with the Police and Domestic Violence Units to make sure the person is being truthful.

Also, what is this about going to the local Mosque and ruining your family's reputation? You need to have a good long think about where you want to go moving forward. If your family's reputation is more important to you, then perhaps you need to carry on letting them mistreat you. If you want to move out and stand on your own two feet, your family will probably get hurt in the process. You need to balance out what is more important to you though.

I hope things work out for you in the end. Maybe talk to a friend about what is going on, they may be able to shed some light on matters.
Reply

*charisma*
03-17-2018, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by Leela1
they know everything if they were to change I'd stay but they won't, I'm sorry for acting like this but I just can't help it. I just don't know what to do, I won't be able to change my family ever. Im not gonna just run away I said in my last last post that I spoke to them about it and they said they'd cut contact from me however I would not do the same. So what's your solution I've had counselling but you have to understand I can't tell them what I've told you otherwise social services and police would get involved and I can't do that. But it's hard to clear your head and heal wounds when your still in the same situation unable to find a way out. I understand what you're saying, What would you suggest my first step to be?
That's very considerate of you to do mashallah, and I think we are both on the same page in that regard. This issue is quite sensitive so I can understand why you it seems like there's no one to turn to who'd actually understand this dynamic.

Since you mentioned you're in the UK here are some Muslim counselors who I think you should try to reach out to. I suggest you tell them about all of your issues. Outline it simply, but make sure you include all of the issues that are ongoing and problems you've had in the past. You don't need to be detailed yet since it's just the initial contact, but try to not miss anything even if you don't think it's important. For example you could say that you're dealing with family emotional and physical abuse, suicidal thoughts, and an incident of sexual abuse. Share anything else that you haven't shared with us and maybe some examples of incidents so they can get an idea of what your dealing with from that first contact. You can include that you'd like to find a solution to your problem but are thinking of running away/moving out as well. If you want to remain anonymous then you should have the freedom to do that and I don't think anyone will ask you to divulge information you're not comfortable with sharing. If you are going to email them then maybe email as many counselors with a solid email. And if you decide to call then maybe write down the things you want to touch on anyway. Some of them may have fees but they may make an exception for you if you can't pay them, so there's no harm in asking for that. Otherwise I think masjids offer free counseling. I know you said that you can't go to your local one, but maybe you can email one which is not local and see what they can offer. You can also ask about if it would be permissible for you specifically to leave your family home or not and under which conditions it would be allowed. May Allah make things easy on you ameen. I know I don't know your full situation but Allah does, so please make du'a and pray for yourself and for your family's guidance. No matter what happens, remember that your perseverance and patience with all of this will be immensely rewarded.

So here are the links:

http://www.sakoon.co.uk/

http://www.mcapn.co.uk/counselling-directory?ed=true

http://www.muslimcounsellorsbirmingham.co.uk/fees.html

https://www.greenlanemasjid.org/soci...e/counselling/

Some large mosques have an "ask/contact Imam" section or a counseling section. So check the ones around the city you're in.

Some other members here might jump in and offer some advice as well or be more helpful than I am lol. But I hope you really give these a try before giving up :) And if nothing here works then let us know. Ultimately we'd want the best outcome in a halal way.
Reply

hisnameiszzz
03-17-2018, 02:57 PM
I've just read the above post, if you have a local Apa (female Aalim), contact them. Go to her house after you have made an appointment and tell her what is going on. But you will have to forget about your family's reputation. Obviously the Apa will keep it confidential if you tell her.

As some of the others have said, moving out might seem like a quick fix but bear in mind that if you go into a Women's Refuge, you will be sharing a hostel with other residents. The only room you have to yourself is your bedroom. The kitchen and bathroom are shared.

If you do get a Council flat / house in time, bear in mind you might have junkies / alcoholics / noisy people living next to you. If you don't pay your rent, you will get evicted. There are so many things you need to think about. Do you genuinely think you will be able to stand on your own two feet and survive?

You could always approach your local Council and ask to see a Housing Advisor who will do an interview with you and offer you expert advice and guidance. But just bear in mind they won't take you seriously if you have no crime reference numbers from the Police. However, they will be able to explain your options available to you - Council's housing register / hostels / women's refuges / private renting / housing associations.

I apologise if I am being all doom and gloom but I used to be a Social Worker in Housing and I know the ins and outs.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-17-2018, 03:01 PM
If its to the point where ur actually getting abused then you need to notify protection services. Theres no family honour malarkey here, you need to stay safe.
Reply

*charisma*
03-17-2018, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
I've just read the above post, if you have a local Apa (female Aalim), contact them. Go to her house after you have made an appointment and tell her what is going on. But you will have to forget about your family's reputation. Obviously the Apa will keep it confidential if you tell her.

As some of the others have said, moving out might seem like a quick fix but bear in mind that if you go into a Women's Refuge, you will be sharing a hostel with other residents. The only room you have to yourself is your bedroom. The kitchen and bathroom are shared.

If you do get a Council flat / house in time, bear in mind you might have junkies / alcoholics / noisy people living next to you. If you don't pay your rent, you will get evicted. There are so many things you need to think about. Do you genuinely think you will be able to stand on your own two feet and survive?

You could always approach your local Council and ask to see a Housing Advisor who will do an interview with you and offer you expert advice and guidance. But just bear in mind they won't take you seriously if you have no crime reference numbers from the Police. However, they will be able to explain your options available to you - Council's housing register / hostels / women's refuges / private renting / housing associations.

I apologise if I am being all doom and gloom but I used to be a Social Worker in Housing and I know the ins and outs.
I have to agree and I'm thankful you brought this up because I completely forgot to do so. If it comes down to it where it's allowed for her to leave her family, then at that point we can perhaps suggest something which is better than what the government is offering because safety is very much an important thing to consider and we don't need fitnah around when it will already be a very difficult and vulnerable situation to be in when a girl has to live away from family. However, ideally it would be better to fix this entire situation so that her family can be God-fearing and kind people and she can live with them without any worries or lost hope. Building up is better than breaking down. I hope she will talk to someone because I think that most people will respect the situation and treat it sensitively because they understand how difficult it can be. There's no benefit for exploitation.
Reply

hisnameiszzz
03-17-2018, 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
If its to the point where ur actually getting abused then you need to notify protection services. Theres no family honour malarkey here, you need to stay safe.
Yes ma'am, I completely agree. The Police need to be informed. The OP is classed as an adult, so I am not too sure Social Services will get that involved, but you will be passed onto a Domestic Violence worker and placed in a Women's Refuge out of harms way.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
If its to the point where ur actually getting abused then you need to notify protection services. Theres no family honour malarkey here, you need to stay safe.
Yes ma'am, I completely agree. The Police need to be informed. The OP is classed as an adult, so I am not too sure Social Services will get that involved, but you will be passed onto a Domestic Violence worker and placed in a Women's Refuge out of harms way.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-18-2018, 06:38 AM
Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
Yes ma'am, I completely agree. The Police need to be informed. The OP is classed as an adult, so I am not too sure Social Services will get that involved, but you will be passed onto a Domestic Violence worker and placed in a Women's Refuge out of harms way.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes ma'am, I completely agree. The Police need to be informed. The OP is classed as an adult, so I am not too sure Social Services will get that involved, but you will be passed onto a Domestic Violence worker and placed in a Women's Refuge out of harms way.
Ah i thought she was still legally clsssed as a minor. I hope she's doing okay inshallah
Reply

hisnameiszzz
03-18-2018, 10:06 AM
Over 18 and you are classed as an adult and you are able to even hold a tenancy in your own name.

How are things OP? Is there not even one person in your family who you may be able to talk to?
Reply

Leela1
03-18-2018, 11:13 AM
Thank you all for your replies, it honestly means alot to me since people usually don't care about me. I have contemplated whether I should move out or not for a very long time at one point I thought I might as well be homeless to save my own life, I never end up doing so as things get worse then they cool down which makes me stay in this cycle.
I understand how hard it is to stay in a council house but I was willing to put up with it, and i have no money and have to use my bursary to feed myself etc. So I'm kind of used to it, I can't go to a women's refuge since I'd have to leave the city and also quit college I've turned 19 though I said i almost am 20 because I want people to take me seriously. I don't want to go to a hostel since I've got severe anxiety, depression &
paranoia. And I'm currently on medication to help my depression and insomnia. I don't live near any other mosques or have Muslim counsellors since I live in a very English christanity area of England. I'm not sure what to do as I'm too scared to move out of my city, im too scared to talk to anyone and I've lost all my friends.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
03-18-2018, 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by Leela1
Thank you all for your replies, it honestly means alot to me since people usually don't care about me. I have contemplated whether I should move out or not for a very long time at one point I thought I might as well be homeless to save my own life, I never end up doing so as things get worse then they cool down which makes me stay in this cycle.
I understand how hard it is to stay in a council house but I was willing to put up with it, and i have no money and have to use my bursary to feed myself etc. So I'm kind of used to it, I can't go to a women's refuge since I'd have to leave the city and also quit college I've turned 19 though I said i almost am 20 because I want people to take me seriously. I don't want to go to a hostel since I've got severe anxiety, depression &
paranoia. And I'm currently on medication to help my depression and insomnia. I don't live near any other mosques or have Muslim counsellors since I live in a very English christanity area of England. I'm not sure what to do as I'm too scared to move out of my city, im too scared to talk to anyone and I've lost all my friends.
I dont know how else i can help honestly, but il keep you in my duas and you can always pm me if you want xx
Reply

hisnameiszzz
03-18-2018, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by Leela1
Thank you all for your replies, it honestly means alot to me since people usually don't care about me. I have contemplated whether I should move out or not for a very long time at one point I thought I might as well be homeless to save my own life, I never end up doing so as things get worse then they cool down which makes me stay in this cycle.
I understand how hard it is to stay in a council house but I was willing to put up with it, and i have no money and have to use my bursary to feed myself etc. So I'm kind of used to it, I can't go to a women's refuge since I'd have to leave the city and also quit college I've turned 19 though I said i almost am 20 because I want people to take me seriously. I don't want to go to a hostel since I've got severe anxiety, depression &
paranoia. And I'm currently on medication to help my depression and insomnia. I don't live near any other mosques or have Muslim counsellors since I live in a very English christanity area of England. I'm not sure what to do as I'm too scared to move out of my city, im too scared to talk to anyone and I've lost all my friends.
Sorry my dear. You are being too picky.

If it is as bad as you say it is, you will unfortunately have to wave goodbye to your city and your college. If I was a housing advisor and you came to see me and told me that, I would just say "well that's your choice and good luck". You are choosing to remain near the people who are allegedly making your life hell. They will give you advice and options - hostel / women's refuge. If you choose to say no, that is your choice and they won't do anything more for you. There are other colleges and schools and universities in other towns and cities, so it's up to you whether your education is more important than your life.

With Council accommodation, the waiting lists are normally quite long so you may end up waiting a good few years. If you said you don't want to leave, you would no doubt be given a lower band / lower points, so you would not be moving in the near future. Also, if you did end up getting Council accommodation, you would be locked in for the first year as an introductory tenant and you would not be able to move so please be careful if you do choose to move out. If you don't pay your rent, they will evict you and what happens then?

Do you perhaps have an uncle / aunt / grandparent who might let you stay with them? If your family know you are being serious, they may change their ways.

Please understand I am not trying to tell you to move out. I am just telling you what the possible options are and I am just trying to get you to understand the grass may not be greener on the other side. Think about all the bills - council tax, gas, electric, water, food, cleaning products. Also if you get a dog, the dog's food (do they eat breakfast, lunch and supper or do they eat more) and vet bills.

Please keep us updated on what happens next.
Reply

*charisma*
03-18-2018, 01:52 PM
How do you spend your time sis? Do you do anything else outside of school? Also have you got any brothers? What is your relationship with your siblings?
Reply

Leela1
03-19-2018, 05:29 PM
That is very true, I will wait till I finish college which isn't very far away. they won't stop I threatened to leave and they laughed and said good luck with that. Thank you for you're response. I decided not to get a dog either it was just a thought, your reply is more realistic. Thanks again.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by *charisma*
How do you spend your time sis? Do you do anything else outside of school? Also have you got any brothers? What is your relationship with your siblings?
My yonger sister joins in with my mother to emotionally abuse me because my mother taught her to. We don't really get along and when she was younger she would get away with hitting me. My brothers I'm not really close to since they are always playing games in their room. My mother does not allow me to go out, I have to go straight home from college. I won't go anywhere else, I listen to her otherwise there will be consequences. I only have the weekends off and I don't really do much. I'm not allowed to eat the food my mum makes either so I'm skinny. It's kind of like fasting every day .
Reply

azc
03-19-2018, 05:59 PM
Then Why don't you cook food yourself....... Is she your real mother...?
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Umme salma
03-19-2018, 07:20 PM
Can understand the dilemma, everyone has suggested ideas that can help in the process of the decision you come to...will pray and hope you find a solution ..even though hurting may seem like the only choice you have...if things are this bad...prepare and plan before you leave... in time they may see where their faults have contributed to y making the decision of leaving.. and it may support a better relationship in the future...at the end only you can decide... will pray for a good outcomes..
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Leela1
03-21-2018, 07:04 AM
Yes she's my real mother, that's what I'm starting to d, I've used YouTube and google, I've told my doctor and she had to contact social services and mental health team, I told her I had to tell someone and she said sorry I can't keep this a secret, and she couldn't leave me in the state I was.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not sure where my life will now take me, but I'm so scared. Have I made a wrong decision.
Reply

azc
03-21-2018, 10:43 AM
Originally Posted by Leela1
Yes she's my real mother, that's what I'm starting to d, I've used YouTube and google, I've told my doctor and she had to contact social services and mental health team, I told her I had to tell someone and she said sorry I can't keep this a secret, and she couldn't leave me in the state I was.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not sure where my life will now take me, but I'm so scared. Have I made a wrong decision.
Keep patience and try to support her as a responsible daughter

- - - Updated - - -

Who is she..? Doctor or mother
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Leela1
03-24-2018, 11:28 AM
Originally Posted by MazharShafiq
Aslaam o alikum.
Islam doesn't allow the abuse or oppression of anyone. It's clear that you need to heal from a lot of things and the people you require it from are not giving it to you. It's also clear you love your family but it's not reciprocated in the way it should be, or maybe you are waiting for THEM to reach out to you first.
I have been diagnosed with reactive depression meaning I will always depressed unless I leave the situation. I'm now getting the help I need, and will hopefully moving out soon, thank you everyone for your help.
Reply

hisnameiszzz
03-24-2018, 11:58 AM
Well good luck with your future.

Have they put you on any medication?

You said you will be moving soon, where to and who is helping you do this?

You mentioned your Doctor getting in touch with social services. Have they been in touch?
Reply

Leela1
04-03-2018, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
Well good luck with your future.

Have they put you on any medication?

You said you will be moving soon, where to and who is helping you do this?

You mentioned your Doctor getting in touch with social services. Have they been in touch?
Yes they have I'm trying out new medication as I've already been on some in the past. Well they are I guess, and my social worker, they were all so great they all got in touch with me on the day. I don't know when I'll be moving out but it's happening quite soon and their helping me get my finances so I should be ok. Thanks this is going to be really scary but it's for the best.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
04-03-2018, 10:54 AM
Originally Posted by Leela1
Yes they have I'm trying out new medication as I've already been on some in the past. Well they are I guess, and my social worker, they were all so great they all got in touch with me on the day. I don't know when I'll be moving out but it's happening quite soon and their helping me get my finances so I should be ok. Thanks this is going to be really scary but it's for the best.
Alhamdulilah you're getting better. So you're leaving your family now?
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
04-03-2018, 10:55 AM
Originally Posted by Leela1
I have been diagnosed with reactive depression meaning I will always depressed unless I leave the situation. I'm now getting the help I need, and will hopefully moving out soon, thank you everyone for your help.
Alhamdulilah you're getting help. Im here if you want to talk x
Reply

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