Reading the Bible.

[beleiver]

So I recently started reading the Bible.
Is this encouraged in Islam?
And are there any tips or advice anyone can give me to help protect me from untruths?

Also i am of the mind the Bible is incomplete and corrupted, the council of Nicea for example complied the book a long after the time of Jesus, and written by those that persecuted the original Christians..Is there any Islamic reference to this council of Nicea?
The Quran says the Bible is incomplete and corrupt, what examples and proofs are there of this claim in Islam?

Many thanks in advance..

[فصيح الياسين]

So I recently started reading the Bible.
Is this encouraged in Islam?
And are there any tips or advice anyone can give me to help protect me from untruths?

Also i am of the mind the Bible is incomplete and corrupted, the council of Nicea for example complied the book a long after the time of Jesus, and written by those that persecuted the original Christians..Is there any Islamic reference to this council of Nicea?
The Quran says the Bible is incomplete and corrupt, what examples and proofs are there of this claim in Islam?

Many thanks in advance..

Firstly its not allowed for people to read bible etc except scholars

[beleiver]

Wow..I am Truly shocked to hear this..Where does this rule originate?

[Misbah-Abd]

If you are of mind that the Bible is corrupt and incomplete then why bother wasting time reading it? It is obvious that it has been tampered with. You have the Catholic Bible which has 73 chapters in it compared to the Protestant Bible which has 66. Then you have Protestant Bibles that have taken out Mark chapters 9-20 altogether. Or have taken the word "begotten" out of John 3:16 since it wasn't in the original manuscripts. That alone should suffice that it has been tampered with. The miracle is that the Prophet s.a.a.w. was given revelation about it before the Bible scholars discovered these most ancient manuscripts that showed these fabrications over a thousand years later.

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[Ümit]

So I recently started reading the Bible.
Is this encouraged in Islam?
And are there any tips or advice anyone can give me to help protect me from untruths?

Also i am of the mind the Bible is incomplete and corrupted, the council of Nicea for example complied the book a long after the time of Jesus, and written by those that persecuted the original Christians..Is there any Islamic reference to this council of Nicea?
The Quran says the Bible is incomplete and corrupt, what examples and proofs are there of this claim in Islam?

Many thanks in advance..

You do not need a claim in Islam to understand the Bible is corrupt...just think about it.
You have multiple versions of the Bible (I believe around 30 different versions).
Every version is available in different languages.
So how can something exist in so many different versions and languages and be claimed that every one of them contains the truth, nothing is added to it or left out and that there are no messages lost in translation?
We all know that with translation alone, you introduce error.

viewpoint from Islam:
Jesus was a prophet, not a god. so the people who wrote the Bible were only people (not even prophets) so, the conclusion is, the Bible is human made and therefore not free from errors.

It is a little comparable with our hadeeth. It may contain truth, but there may be some errors here and there.

Only the Gospels in original form and text contains the truth because that is directly dictated from God to Jesus as.
The Quran mentioning the Indjeel refers to the Gospels (of course in original form and language).

- - - Updated - - -

So I recently started reading the Bible.
Is this encouraged in Islam?
And are there any tips or advice anyone can give me to help protect me from untruths?

Also i am of the mind the Bible is incomplete and corrupted, the council of Nicea for example complied the book a long after the time of Jesus, and written by those that persecuted the original Christians..Is there any Islamic reference to this council of Nicea?
The Quran says the Bible is incomplete and corrupt, what examples and proofs are there of this claim in Islam?

Many thanks in advance..

You do not need a claim in Islam to understand the Bible is corrupt...just think about it.
You have multiple versions of the Bible (I believe around 30 different versions).
Every version is available in different languages.
So how can something exist in so many different versions and languages and be claimed that every one of them contains the truth, nothing is added to it or left out and that there are no messages lost in translation?
We all know that with translation alone, you introduce error.

viewpoint from Islam:
Jesus was a prophet, not a god. so the people who wrote the Bible were only people (not even prophets) so, the conclusion is, the Bible is human made and therefore not free from errors.

It is a little comparable with our hadeeth. It may contain truth, but there may be some errors here and there.

Only the Gospels in original form and text contains the truth because that is directly dictated from God to Jesus as.
The Quran mentioning the Indjeel refers to the Gospels (of course in original form and language).

[beleiver]

I have little doubt the book has been tampered with, but there remains some Truth within it i do not doubt either..As a Truth seeker i am curious, I beleive it would help expand my understanding of the world and the people within it, which must be a good thing, and i dont think there is a more comprehensive history of this planet availabe to read..

One reason i beleive there is some Truth left in it is the church made it virtually impossible to read it, illegal to translate it, they murdered many a good Christian for doing so..There must be some truth within.
I am deeply disturbed there is a ruling in Islam that prohibits mere pesants from reading it also, the source of this ruling would be welcome..

[Ümit]

I personally never heard about this ruling that muslims are not allowed to read the Bible.
I also would be interested where this rule is coming from

[فصيح الياسين]

I personally never heard about this ruling that muslims are not allowed to read the Bible.
I also would be interested where this rule is coming from

Frome here
An-Nasaa’i and others narrated from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) that he saw a page of the Torah in the hand of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him). He said: “If Moosa were alive, and you were to follow him and leave me, you would go astray.” According to another report: “… he would have no option but to follow me.” According to another version: The face of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) changed when ‘Umar showed that to him, and one of the Ansaar said to him: O son of al-Khattaab, do you not see the face of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)? ‘Umar said: I am content with Allah as my Lord, Islam is my religion, and Muhammad as my Prophet.-

Hence the Sahaabah forbade the study of any book other than the Qur’an.

End quote from-Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa-(17/41-42)-

[فصيح الياسين]

Wow..I am Truly shocked to hear this..Where does this rule originate?

An-Nasaa’i and others narrated from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) that he saw a page of the Torah in the hand of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him). He said: “If Moosa were alive, and you were to follow him and leave me, you would go astray.” According to another report: “… he would have no option but to follow me.” According to another version: The face of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) changed when ‘Umar showed that to him, and one of the Ansaar said to him: O son of al-Khattaab, do you not see the face of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)? ‘Umar said: I am content with Allah as my Lord, Islam is my religion, and Muhammad as my Prophet.-

Hence the Sahaabah forbade the study of any book other than the Qur’an.

End quote from-Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa-(17/41-42)-

[Misbah-Abd]

I have little doubt the book has been tampered with, but there remains some Truth within it i do not doubt either..As a Truth seeker i am curious, I beleive it would help expand my understanding of the world and the people within it, which must be a good thing, and i dont think there is a more comprehensive history of this planet availabe to read..

One reason i beleive there is some Truth left in it is the church made it virtually impossible to read it, illegal to translate it, they murdered many a good Christian for doing so..There must be some truth within.
I am deeply disturbed there is a ruling in Islam that prohibits mere pesants from reading it also, the source of this ruling would be welcome..

https://islamqa.info/en/209007

[azc]

So I recently started reading the Bible.
Is this encouraged in Islam?
And are there any tips or advice anyone can give me to help protect me from untruths?

Also i am of the mind the Bible is incomplete and corrupted, the council of Nicea for example complied the book a long after the time of Jesus, and written by those that persecuted the original Christians..Is there any Islamic reference to this council of Nicea?
The Quran says the Bible is incomplete and corrupt, what examples and proofs are there of this claim in Islam?

Many thanks in advance..

Sayyiduna Jabir (radiyallahu’anhu) reports that once Sayyiduna ‘Umar (radiyallahu’anhu) brought a book to Rasulullah (sallallahu’alayhi wasallam) which he acquired from the people of the book (the jews) and said: ‘O Rasulullah! I have a good book from the people of the book.’

Rasulullah (sallallahu’alayhi wasallam) became angry and said:
‘Are you being reckless O son of Khattab?! By the oath of Allah! I have brought it (religion) to you in a state that is bright and clear. It shouldn’t be that you end up denying the truth they tell or you believe the falsehood that they tell. By oath of Allah! If [Nabi] Musa (‘alayhis salam) was alive today, he would have no other option but to follow me.’


Musannaf Abdur Razzaq, Hadith: 10163 and 10164, Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah, Hadith: 26949, Musnad Ahmad vol. 3 pg. 387, Sunan Darimi, Hadith: 435, Musnad Bazzar; Kashful Astar, Hadith: 124, Shu’abul Iman, Hadith: 174 & Gharibul Hadith of Abu ‘Ubayd.

[Alamgir]

Asalamu Alaikum

You can only read it if you desire to refute it.

[Good brother]

Jedi Doctrine

The Jedi church has no official doctrine or scripture. The Jedi church recognizes that all living things share a living force and that all people have an innate knowledge of what is right and wrong, and the Jedi Church celebrates this like no other religion.
Basic concepts of the Jedi faith that we at the Jedi Church would like to promote are the following:

The Basic Concepts

There is one all powerful force that binds the entire universe together. It is "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together". This is a concept that most religions of the world concur with. Some refer to it as their deity, some refer to it as a life force, but the one thing nearly all religions agree with, is that there exists a single unifying force.
There are 2 sides to the force, the dark side and the light side. "Beware of the dark side... The dark side leads to fear. Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering". Good versus Evil is a common element through most religions. The issues of good versus evil, right versus wrong permeate through the doctrines of all religions. Most religions attempt to state what is right and wrong, to establish their moral code. Sometimes religions make codes that don't reach a great consensus. Outsiders, and sometime insiders, begin to judge their religious code by something more powerful, something more innate, an innate ability to know what is right and wrong. This is the Jedi's belief, that morality, good and evil, are all axioms of the force, and that we must listen to the force so that we will know the right thing to do.

https://www.jedichurch.org/jedi-doctrine.html

[Misbah-Abd]

^^In other words, a nerd-made misguided ideology getting their name from Star Wars.^^

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

It's more important to study Islam, maybe even keep up with the people of dawah to learn about what is contradictory. Basically, learn from the people who already did the work of finding out what you're inquiring about. There are tables of comparisons, refutations, conversion stories, which I think would be a lot more interesting and fruitful.

The Book of Genesis was assigned to us in high school for English class. I found it to belittle Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala in regards to the content. He was written about as if he were a human being with temperament and vulnerability au'dhu billah. And well, I guess that is how he's viewed since Christians believe we were made in "God's image." So right away you see where Islam and Christianity part ways. There are other little details that didn't make sense or weren't logical in general. The text itself was very monotonous so it was a bit dull to read, but it was an easy read. That being said, it was interesting because it was the first religious text I read outside of Islamic texts. I don't think you'd be missing much if you didn't read it to be honest. I can understand if you have a curiosity about it, but it really depends on what your end goal is and how you're allocating your time. Judging by your initial inquiry though, I personally believe you'd be wasting your time since you don't know enough about your own deen to know why the Bible would be considered corrupt in Islam to begin with. In Islam it is highlighted very clearly why the other texts are considered corrupt. You should be well rooted with the truth before trying to make comparisons because otherwise what are you really comparing or trying to refute if you don't have a strong foundation to begin with? The discrepancies would just fire out at you if you did; you wouldn't need to ask or need to be "protected from untruths." :D

[azc]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...17&version=NIV

Genesis 17 NIV - The Covenant of Circumcision - When - Bible Gateway The Covenant of Circumcision - When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully...

[beleiver]

First of i want to thank you all for your responses, given me much to ponder, and will adress the Jedi bit first:D I put Jedi on the forum form more of a joke than anything..I am from the star wars generation and love the film, I often wonder if a film came out now where the hero in a lawless land was radicalized by a relegious extremist in a cave and then went on to blow up government buildings how it would go down:D But jokes aside , the force that is present in all living things that binds the universe together to me is similar to the 'light of the heavens and the earth and all that is within' that and the Truth is what I beleive, I trust and i willingly submit to, it is that Truth that guides me inshalla and i seek forgiveness and mercy from, It is Truth that protects me from satan and his lies..That is all included in my daily prayers..And I start those prayers with 'in the name of God the mercifull the extra mercifull' but in Arabic as to me it has a deep deep meaning that simply doesnt translate..So after reading this forum for around a year now and learning a simple, basic concept of prayer, I dont think i am much of a Jedi, I dont like their strict Monastic ways and i doubt i could fight my way out of a paper bag, besides the Evil empire of Disney has the whole thing totally corrpted, Jedi is most likley gone to the dark side too..What you think i am is not really important , what God thinks of me is..Inshalla i will get back on topic next reply..

[Misbah-Abd]

First of i want to thank you all for your responses, given me much to ponder, and will adress the Jedi bit first:D I put Jedi on the forum form more of a joke than anything..I am from the star wars generation and love the film, I often wonedr if a film came out now where the hero in a lawless land was radicalized by a relegious extremist in a cave and then went on to blow up government buildings how it would go down:D But jokes aside , the force that is present in all living things that binds the universe together to me is similar to the 'light of the heavens and the earth and all that is within' that and the Truth is what I beleive, I trust and i willingly submit to, it is that Truth that guides me inshalla and i seek forgiveness and mercy from, It is Truth that protects me from satan and his lies..That is all included in my daily prayers..And I start those prayers with 'in the name of God the mercifull the extra mercifull' but in Arabic as to me it has a deep deep meaning that simply doesnt translate..So after reading this forum for around a year now and learning a simple, basic concept of prayer, I dont think i am much of a Jedi, I dont like their strict Monastic ways and i doubt i could fight my way out of a paper bag..What you think i am is no really important , what God thinks of me is..Inshalla i will get back on topic next reply..

If you are a Muslim then don't call yourself anything else. Be proud of it and lose the Jedi nonsense.

[azc]

First of i want to thank you all for your responses, given me much to ponder, and will adress the Jedi bit first:D I put Jedi on the forum form more of a joke than anything..I am from the star wars generation and love the film, I often wonder if a film came out now where the hero in a lawless land was radicalized by a relegious extremist in a cave and then went on to blow up government buildings how it would go down:D But jokes aside , the force that is present in all living things that binds the universe together to me is similar to the 'light of the heavens and the earth and all that is within' that and the Truth is what I beleive, I trust and i willingly submit to, it is that Truth that guides me inshalla and i seek forgiveness and mercy from, It is Truth that protects me from satan and his lies..That is all included in my daily prayers..And I start those prayers with 'in the name of God the mercifull the extra mercifull' but in Arabic as to me it has a deep deep meaning that simply doesnt translate..So after reading this forum for around a year now and learning a simple, basic concept of prayer, I dont think i am much of a Jedi, I dont like their strict Monastic ways and i doubt i could fight my way out of a paper bag, besides the Evil empire of Disney has the whole thing totally corrpted, Jedi is most likley gone to the dark side too..What you think i am is not really important , what God thinks of me is..Inshalla i will get back on topic next reply..

Hope you will be a better Muslim now.

[azc]

http://www.answering-christianity.co...radictions.htm

[AllahIsAl-Malik]

The Bible was altered by the Mandela Effect. I was raised Christian, I know the Bible and this is how I know that the Bible was altered by the Mandela Effect... only further adding to the already-present alterations to the text.

[Misbah-Abd]

The Bible was altered by the Mandela Effect. I was raised Christian, I know the Bible and this is how I know that the Bible was altered by the Mandela Effect... only further adding to the already-present alterations to the text.

What is the Mandela Effect?

[AllahIsAl-Malik]

@Misbah-Abd

(I am not doing the quote thing because I think the message would not go through due to my low post count, as happened the previous time I used the quote thing on here)

I am happy that you ask and I am happy to explain- or try to explain- the Mandela Effect.

It is very complicated. I found out about it last year. It is a topic unto itself.

I explained it to some people a couple days ago. I asked this woman (my relative's girlfriend who was there with him- I don't approve of the dating thing but unfortunately they are not Muslim and they won't listen to me) to spell the name of the Bernstein Bears.

She spelled it "Bernstein", as I figured she would. I do it all the time. I ask people how to spell the Bernstein Bears. Almost everyone remembers "Bernstein" Bears.

Another thing I like to ask is "what does Forrest Gump say?" as far as life and box of chocolates. Pretty much everyone says "life is like a box of chocolates"- that is what they remember him saying.

If you watch Forrest Gump now- he says life was like a box of chocolates. If you look at the Bernstein Bears... their name is now spelled Bernstain. People may remember C3PO being all gold. He now is shown with a silver leg. To give another example, Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz now is shown with a pistol.

I am not great at explaining this but I am trying and hope I am understood.

As I see it, you can divide into A- what people remember. And B- what is shown if you go back and examine the material.

Why the discrepancy? Why the gap between what people remember and what seems to be the actuality?

This phenomena is known as the Mandela Effect. I've given a couple examples.

This is a huge field of research unto itself.

I will link resources for those who wish to research and understand.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/christopher...Bwx#.rjV9WMgkr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsVFh0GyoFc&t=761s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKynQdd7lFw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3d94JSOXUc

So what is the source of the Mandela Effect? How is the discrepancy between what appears and what is remembered- how is this discrepancy accounted for?

To my understanding, there are two basic approaches- as far as explanation.

The first basic explanation would be false memories on a mass scale.

My probem is... how did I know that my family member's girlfriend would have the same "false memory" I have? I remember BERNSTEIN Bears and so did she. So has pretty much everyone who I've asked. And I've asked quite a few people.

If you look at a phenomena like hallucination... how is it possible that multiple people would independently have the same hallucination? If what I have as far as BERNSTEIN Bears is a false memory.... why do so many others have the same false memory as me?

So false memory is the first explanation as I understand it.

The second explanation is that which I hold to. The second explanation is that certain things have objectively changed.

I am merely explaining things. May Allah guide us and may Allah give us strength. I am finding this hard to discuss. I do not like talking about this... however, I feel this is important stuff and I type for the sake of whoever may read.

Okay. The second explanation. Which is very difficult for people to wrap their heads around. What I have concluded is.... somehow.... somehow things were altered. What this would seem to mean is that somehow..... someone or...... whoever.... whatever..... somehow managed to change things.

Someone said.... "oh, you know...... it was the kids.... you know... the younger generation.... they changed the name of the Bernstein Bears.... you know...... the family's younger members published under a different name"..... that would be something completely banal. And that is not the point at all.

Those who believe the Mandela Effect is real and not merely masses have people having parallel false memories....we believe that..... it seems that some.... something or someone or whatever it was.... went back in time and altered stuff... or something to that effect.

What I am absolutely insistent upon is this: when I read the Bernstein Bears, it was spelled Bernstein. Others who don't want to deal with such a conclusion as that I have been led to.... they might say "well...... it must have been Bernstain the whole time" or try to find some other way to explain things away. I refuse to be convinced that my memory is false. I know what I remember.

Yet the books now say "Bernstain". So I'm crazy or.... something beyond what humans believe to be possible has taken place.

Very many people believe that the Mandela Effect has to do with CERN. They opened a portal or something and that has to do with the Mandela Effect and altering the timeline.

Okay. And this is something that made me angry. I would not post any of this were it not for the Bible alterations. Whoever or whatever is behind the Mandela Effect... they changed Forrest Gump... who really cares.... that is not all that significant. Not even the Bernstein Bears.

But what is very serious and what made me angry is.... seeing the word "bottles" in the King James Bible.... there was a phrase about new wine and old wineskins or something like that.

I grew up Christian, taking the Bible very seriously..... I know for a fact that the King James Bible said wineskins.... now it says bottles! When I found out, I looked in my own copy...... IN MY OWN COPY IT NOW SAID BOTTLES!

To give another example... the word "matrix" is now in the Bible.... I looked in my grandma's Bible..... in her Bible it now says "matrix!".

Another example is the Lion and the Lamb. There is a very famous passage.... it said the lion shall lay with the lamb. Now it says the wolf shall lay with the lamb.

These are a few examples. There are many, many, many, many more and a person can spend many, many hours researching all this- whether in a general way or specifically referring to the alterations within the Bible.

I know the Bible and I know the alterations took place and I saw it. And Christians have continued and continued.... their Bibles changed right in front of them and they didn't notice. They still continue.

This is a clear demonstration that the Bible is tampered with and is not to be trusted.

Which seriously breaks my heart. Thank God for Islam and thank God for the Quran- that Allah has been merciful enough to bring guidance to the world and that we do not have to rely on corrupted scriptures.

[Misbah-Abd]

Thank you for that explanation. I will look into those links this weekend on my days off work.

[beleiver]

If you are a Muslim then don't call yourself anything else. Be proud of it and lose the Jedi nonsense.

Hope you will be a better Muslim now.

Thanks, i take that as a complimnent. It has been on my mind a lot latley. I would love to join the largest family in humanity but i fear i might be rejected for several reasons.
Brothers quarrel with brothers and sisters and brothers quarrel , but i suppose they respect and treat each other with more respect and dignity and trust each other more than if they were not of the same family with the same Father/creator to guide them..It does seem idealy the best way though, when humans realise we are all one family with the same Father/Creator and let Him be the guide then we can move on in a more peacefull direction..
As Charism suggests i might get in touch with some Dawah people so to clarify some issues i have face to face..They might be able to answer some contradictions i see. for example with the ruling prohibiting reading the Bible, which like most contradictions seem to originate from the same source and its not from the Quoran..Hope to adress this in the next post..

Thanks for this link below, thats helpfull might protect me from those untruths that i might miss in such a huge book.
Since i started reading Bible though i have spent more time reading Islam and i feel my Deen stronger..Islam was not really supposed to be so theological but rather a way to live ones life, to be a good righetous person that did good and treated people kindly, not a way of telling others how to be like Judeaism and Christianity became but how to take responsibilty for your self through your own actions? I suppose the word Deen meaning more way of life than how the english word Relegion differs is an example of this?
I do fear though over the years Islam has drifted in that theological direction too but the root/Quoran is not as corruptable, the Truth incorruptable?

http://www.answering-christianity.co...radictions.htm

[azc]

Thanks, i take that as a complimnent. It has been on my mind a lot latley. I would love to join the largest family in humanity but i fear i might be rejected for several reasons.Brothers quarrel with brothers and sisters and brothers quarrel , but i suppose they respect and treat each other with more respect and dignity and trust each other more than if they were not of the same family with the same Father/creator to guide them..It does seem idealy the best way though, when humans realise we are all one family with the same Father/Creator and let Him be the guide then we can move on in a more peacefull direction..As Charism suggests i might get in touch with some Dawah people so to clarify some issues i have face to face..They might be able to answer some contradictions i see. for example with the ruling prohibiting reading the Bible, which like most contradictions seem to originate from the same source and its not from the Quoran..Hope to adress this in the next post..Thanks for this link below, thats helpfull might protect me from those untruths that i might miss in such a huge book.Since i started reading Bible though i have spent more time reading Islam and i feel my Deen stronger..Islam was not really supposed to be so theological but rather a way to live ones life, to be a good righetous person that did good and treated people kindly, not a way of telling others how to be like Judeaism and Christianity became but how to take responsibilty for your self through your own actions? I suppose the word Deen meaning more way of life than how the english word Relegion differs is an example of this?I do fear though over the years Islam has drifted in that theological direction too but the root/Quoran is not as corruptable, the Truth incorruptable?

Why don't you listen to scholars like sh ahmad deedat etc instead of doing self study of bible.?

[beleiver]

@azc

I might have a listen to him never heard of him before, i will take a look..
But i would rather Allaha through my own heart and mind guide me through it and increase my knowlage, inshalla my heart wont swerve from the Truth this way..I am expecting it to take a year or few , i am no hurry and am not devoting all my time to just the Bible.

My main reason to read it is to learn the contex of Jesus teachings, i dont trust Paul, but I think we are close to end times and I expect His reutrn soon..

I take it its a common beleif in Islam Jesus will return? Or is it just the Mahadi or both or are they one and the same, this is also an interest of mine?

[azc]

@azc I might have a listen to him never heard of him before, i will take a look..But i would rather Allaha through my own heart and mind guide me through it and increase my knowlage, inshalla my heart wont swerve from the Truth this way..I am expecting it to take a year or few , i am no hurry and am not devoting all my time to just the Bible.My main reason to read it is to learn the contex of Jesus teachings, i dont trust Paul, but I think we are close to end times and I expect His reutrn soon..I take it its a common beleif in Islam Jesus will return? Or is it just the Mahadi or both or are they one and the same, this is also an interest of mine?

First, Hz Imam Mahdi, then Hz Jesus a.s will come

[Zzz_]

Ahmad deedat may have been before your time but he was regarded more a bible scholar then Quran scholar, listen to him and Shabir Ally who is the current 'ahmad deedat'.

in order for you to discover the truth by yourself you need a base knowledge to begin with. If you don't know truth from falsehood, on what basis are you judging what is true and what is not? Also, learning your deen is obligatory in Islam. How can we claim to be Muslims but don't know anything about Islam? so learning deen takes priority over learning other religion or any secular knowledge for that matter.

And the Quran gives you all the context you need about jesus. Only things you will find in the bible is what the scribes wrote 400 years after jesus had left the building. I suggest watching this video before reading the bible:

Misquoting Jesus: Scribes Who Altered Scriptures and Readers Who May Never Know


Regarding Jesus a.s. and Imam Mahdi. They are two different individuals. One is a prophet who will return to kill dajjal and the other is a descendant of the Prophet (S) who will unite the Muslims and ready the Muslim army to fight against the dajjal army.

[Ümit]

@Misbah-Abd

(I am not doing the quote thing because I think the message would not go through due to my low post count, as happened the previous time I used the quote thing on here)

I am happy that you ask and I am happy to explain- or try to explain- the Mandela Effect.

It is very complicated. I found out about it last year. It is a topic unto itself.

I explained it to some people a couple days ago. I asked this woman (my relative's girlfriend who was there with him- I don't approve of the dating thing but unfortunately they are not Muslim and they won't listen to me) to spell the name of the Bernstein Bears.

She spelled it "Bernstein", as I figured she would. I do it all the time. I ask people how to spell the Bernstein Bears. Almost everyone remembers "Bernstein" Bears.

Another thing I like to ask is "what does Forrest Gump say?" as far as life and box of chocolates. Pretty much everyone says "life is like a box of chocolates"- that is what they remember him saying.

If you watch Forrest Gump now- he says life was like a box of chocolates. If you look at the Bernstein Bears... their name is now spelled Bernstain. People may remember C3PO being all gold. He now is shown with a silver leg. To give another example, Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz now is shown with a pistol.

I am not great at explaining this but I am trying and hope I am understood.

As I see it, you can divide into A- what people remember. And B- what is shown if you go back and examine the material.

Why the discrepancy? Why the gap between what people remember and what seems to be the actuality?

This phenomena is known as the Mandela Effect. I've given a couple examples.

This is a huge field of research unto itself.

I will link resources for those who wish to research and understand.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/christopher...Bwx#.rjV9WMgkr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsVFh0GyoFc&t=761s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKynQdd7lFw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3d94JSOXUc

So what is the source of the Mandela Effect? How is the discrepancy between what appears and what is remembered- how is this discrepancy accounted for?

To my understanding, there are two basic approaches- as far as explanation.

The first basic explanation would be false memories on a mass scale.

My probem is... how did I know that my family member's girlfriend would have the same "false memory" I have? I remember BERNSTEIN Bears and so did she. So has pretty much everyone who I've asked. And I've asked quite a few people.

If you look at a phenomena like hallucination... how is it possible that multiple people would independently have the same hallucination? If what I have as far as BERNSTEIN Bears is a false memory.... why do so many others have the same false memory as me?

So false memory is the first explanation as I understand it.

The second explanation is that which I hold to. The second explanation is that certain things have objectively changed.

I am merely explaining things. May Allah guide us and may Allah give us strength. I am finding this hard to discuss. I do not like talking about this... however, I feel this is important stuff and I type for the sake of whoever may read.

Okay. The second explanation. Which is very difficult for people to wrap their heads around. What I have concluded is.... somehow.... somehow things were altered. What this would seem to mean is that somehow..... someone or...... whoever.... whatever..... somehow managed to change things.

Someone said.... "oh, you know...... it was the kids.... you know... the younger generation.... they changed the name of the Bernstein Bears.... you know...... the family's younger members published under a different name"..... that would be something completely banal. And that is not the point at all.

Those who believe the Mandela Effect is real and not merely masses have people having parallel false memories....we believe that..... it seems that some.... something or someone or whatever it was.... went back in time and altered stuff... or something to that effect.

What I am absolutely insistent upon is this: when I read the Bernstein Bears, it was spelled Bernstein. Others who don't want to deal with such a conclusion as that I have been led to.... they might say "well...... it must have been Bernstain the whole time" or try to find some other way to explain things away. I refuse to be convinced that my memory is false. I know what I remember.

Yet the books now say "Bernstain". So I'm crazy or.... something beyond what humans believe to be possible has taken place.

Very many people believe that the Mandela Effect has to do with CERN. They opened a portal or something and that has to do with the Mandela Effect and altering the timeline.

Okay. And this is something that made me angry. I would not post any of this were it not for the Bible alterations. Whoever or whatever is behind the Mandela Effect... they changed Forrest Gump... who really cares.... that is not all that significant. Not even the Bernstein Bears.

But what is very serious and what made me angry is.... seeing the word "bottles" in the King James Bible.... there was a phrase about new wine and old wineskins or something like that.

I grew up Christian, taking the Bible very seriously..... I know for a fact that the King James Bible said wineskins.... now it says bottles! When I found out, I looked in my own copy...... IN MY OWN COPY IT NOW SAID BOTTLES!

To give another example... the word "matrix" is now in the Bible.... I looked in my grandma's Bible..... in her Bible it now says "matrix!".

Another example is the Lion and the Lamb. There is a very famous passage.... it said the lion shall lay with the lamb. Now it says the wolf shall lay with the lamb.

These are a few examples. There are many, many, many, many more and a person can spend many, many hours researching all this- whether in a general way or specifically referring to the alterations within the Bible.

I know the Bible and I know the alterations took place and I saw it. And Christians have continued and continued.... their Bibles changed right in front of them and they didn't notice. They still continue.

This is a clear demonstration that the Bible is tampered with and is not to be trusted.

Which seriously breaks my heart. Thank God for Islam and thank God for the Quran- that Allah has been merciful enough to bring guidance to the world and that we do not have to rely on corrupted scriptures.

İt may be the mandela effect or some other effect. The main thing is...the contradictions are there...and the reason why does not matter much...what does matter is that because of these contradictions, the bible cannot be trusted.
Besides, with the mandela effect you just showed that humans are fallible...and because the bible contains contradictions, we can conclude that the authors of the bible were just humans....because if they were prophets, they would not make such errors, and even when they did, it would be corrected right away.
So mandela effect? Very much possible...but they were no prophets for sure.

[muslim_student]

As-salam `alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh


For those interested in this topic, you can listen to these classes : Bible Through a Muslim Lens with Ustadh Ali Ataie

subscribe and download here : http://seekershub.org/home/lessonset...adh-ali-ataie/

An introduction to the four gospels found in the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John), with new insights and a more nuanced understanding of who Jesus (peace be upon him) was for the objective of calling others to Islam.

Ustadh Ali Ataie

Biography


Ustadh Ali Ataie is a teacher and researcher of the Islamic sciences, specializing in theology and biblical interpretation. He is Adjunct Professor of Islamic Studies and World Religions at both Zaytuna College and the Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, California. At the latter, Ustadh Ali is working towards a PhD in Islamic Biblical Hermeneutics. His comprehensive knowledge of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic traditions is matched by few. Ustadh Ali is certified in Arabic, Hebrew, and Biblical Greek, and fluent in Farsi.


Education

Ustadh Ali began his study of Islam under scholars in the Bay Area in the United States of America. He later graduated from the Badr Arabic Language Institute in Hadramawt, Yemen. Blessed to learn from some of the most eminent scholars in the world, he continued his pursuit of knowledge at the prestigious Dar al-Mustafa.


He also holds an Undergraduate Degree in Accounting from California Polytechnic State University, and a Masters’ Degree in Biblical Studies from the Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley.



Interfaith Work

For over 15 years, Ustadh Ali has diligently taken part in interfaith work. He has dialogued and debated with Christian scholars about such critical topics as the resurrection of Jesus and the Prophethood of Muhammad (God’s peace and blessings be upon them both).


He has visited several colleges and universities as both a lecturer and instructor, including California Polytechnic State University, California State University East Bay, UC Davis, UC Berkeley, and UCLA.

[azc]

İt may be the mandela effect or some other effect. The main thing is...the contradictions are there...and the reason why does not matter much...what does matter is that because of these contradictions, the bible cannot be trusted.Besides, with the mandela effect you just showed that humans are fallible...and because the bible contains contradictions, we can conclude that the authors of the bible were just humans....because if they were prophets, they would not make such errors, and even when they did, it would be corrected right away.So mandela effect? Very much possible...but they were no prophets for sure.

http://www.answering-christianity.co...radictions.htm

[Ümit]

http://www.answering-christianity.co...radictions.htm

Yes İ've seen this link the first time you posted. Was very informative...thank you very much...but why this second post?

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.answering-christianity.co...radictions.htm

Yes İ've seen this link the first time you posted. Was very informative...thank you very much...but why this second post?

[cinnamonrolls1]

Jedi Doctrine

The Jedi church has no official doctrine or scripture. The Jedi church recognizes that all living things share a living force and that all people have an innate knowledge of what is right and wrong, and the Jedi Church celebrates this like no other religion.
Basic concepts of the Jedi faith that we at the Jedi Church would like to promote are the following:

The Basic Concepts

There is one all powerful force that binds the entire universe together. It is "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together". This is a concept that most religions of the world concur with. Some refer to it as their deity, some refer to it as a life force, but the one thing nearly all religions agree with, is that there exists a single unifying force.
There are 2 sides to the force, the dark side and the light side. "Beware of the dark side... The dark side leads to fear. Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering". Good versus Evil is a common element through most religions. The issues of good versus evil, right versus wrong permeate through the doctrines of all religions. Most religions attempt to state what is right and wrong, to establish their moral code. Sometimes religions make codes that don't reach a great consensus. Outsiders, and sometime insiders, begin to judge their religious code by something more powerful, something more innate, an innate ability to know what is right and wrong. This is the Jedi's belief, that morality, good and evil, are all axioms of the force, and that we must listen to the force so that we will know the right thing to do.

https://www.jedichurch.org/jedi-doctrine.html

Jedi isnt an actual religion lol. Its from star wars! Just some folk wanted to be funny and set it as their religion