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Vitamins
04-26-2018, 09:22 AM
Alsalamu Alaikum. I was born to a christian family, but abandoned christianity early on. I converted to Islam when I was a young adult, and by now, I've been a muslim longer than i've been christian or irreligious. Lately I feel empty of any deen at all.

At first I was over-zealous, then as the years went on, I mellowed out. One example (out of too many to count) would be that I went from full niqab, to hijab, to turbans and now I'm in hats/beanies. I knew no other muslims when I converted, so I joined another islamic forum right after I converted. I lurked there for many years, but I quit because unislamic attitudes there were hurting my iman. Every single thread disgusted me. But losing the only muslims I knew made my iman even worse.

I've struggled with my iman, though, since the day I converted. I've always believed in the tenets of faith, but members of the other forum used to tell me I was still an atheist because I can't force myself to believe in magic or jinn. Even to this day, I can't make myself believe in it. I just think of "magic" as ridiculous superstition. I laugh when I hear my nonmuslim coworkers discussing their zodiac signs and horoscopes, ghost stories, or trying to convince me that opening my umbrella inside is "bad luck". They will tell me to knock on wood, and when I refuse, they do it for me. Or they'll shush me when I say something "unlucky" by saying "Oh god dont jinx it!" and I reply that I'm not superstitious.

The muslims on the forum weren't much different, except in their version, they kept telling me to make "taweez", wear a "hand of fatima", rub butter or to sprinkle salt in my doorways and under my bed. I just get so fed up with these attitudes that in my anger, my iman suffers. It gives me negative/insulting thoughts against religious people. I can't help these thoughts, even though I know they are arrogant and judgemental astagfirulla.

Have any of you brothers and sisters had similar feelings to me?
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azc
04-26-2018, 03:56 PM
Agree

Magic is, literally, haram
Reply

anatolian
04-26-2018, 04:05 PM
What is your interpretation of the verses in Quran that talk about black magic and jins? You must have a reasonable interpretation.
Reply

Yahya.
04-26-2018, 07:17 PM
The question in the title seems to be replaced by another question in the description, but I am referring to the first question.

Those attitudes you described are certainly considered superstition (khurafa) in Islam. But beyond those beliefs pertaining luck and horoscope, the teaching of magic and its particular acts exist and are mentioned (siḥr) in the Quran.

And they followed [instead] what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew. [Quran, 02:102]

The teaching of magic contains acts which may be harmful to others, and which are also used for that cause mostly. So, the Shariah forbids magic sharply.
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M.I.A.
04-26-2018, 07:26 PM
Most belief is superficial anyway.. as you made yourself aware of on the other forum.

Your fine as you are.

Ultimately its your own questions that lead you on a path.

..and maybe i can just leave it at that.
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Vitamins
04-26-2018, 09:58 PM
Jazakallah br yahya. like br anatolian said, i always try to come up with scientific explanations in my head of ayat like these. they are involuntary thoughts, mostly. I believe there is an explanation for everything, even if Allah didn't reveal it to us.

but the hocus pocus that people believe is "magic" just makes me cringe. I do not believe that bad or good "luck", ghosts/spirits/hauntings, fortunetelling or "magic spells" are real. I am not afraid of being cursed or possessed and I don't think that talismans are useful in any way, other than decorations. I do believe in Allah and that only He has any power over anything.
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Zzz_
04-27-2018, 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by Vitamins
Jazakallah br yahya. like br anatolian said, i always try to come up with scientific explanations in my head of ayat like these. they are involuntary thoughts, mostly. I believe there is an explanation for everything, even if Allah didn't reveal it to us.

but the hocus pocus that people believe is "magic" just makes me cringe. I do not believe that bad or good "luck", ghosts/spirits/hauntings, fortunetelling or "magic spells" are real. I am not afraid of being cursed or possessed and I don't think that talismans are useful in any way, other than decorations. I do believe in Allah and that only He has any power over anything.
You have to put you belief in the fact that the knowledge that humans have acquired is but a drop in the ocean. You believe in angels and Allah yet you haven't seen any of them. Same goes for jinns, a creation you can't easily see. There's superstition stuff and there's supernatural stuff, the two are not one and the same.

Whether you believe in it or not, i think it would be more prudent to acknowledge it. Acknowledge that magic is real and its part of the "science" the western science has failed to comprehend and it is part of the supernatural and therefore not as readily available to study unless you get into haram/shirk acts. So long as you firmly believe in the shahadah then you are a Muslim, other things you can work on inshallah.
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Vitamins
04-27-2018, 07:55 AM
Originally Posted by Zzz_
You have to put you belief in the fact that the knowledge that humans have acquired is but a drop in the ocean. You believe in angels and Allah yet you haven't seen any of them. Same goes for jinns, a creation you can't easily see. There's superstition stuff and there's supernatural stuff, the two are not one and the same.
I agree completely, may Allah guide me. but this is how my mind works, I can't help it. do you have any lectures that deal with this issue that you could share?

Originally Posted by Zzz_
Whether you believe in it or not, i think it would be more prudent to acknowledge it. Acknowledge that magic is real and its part of the "science" the western science has failed to comprehend and it is part of the supernatural and therefore not as readily available to study unless you get into haram/shirk acts. So long as you firmly believe in the shahadah then you are a Muslim, other things you can work on inshallah.
I don't know how to do that. I can't acknowledge that something is real if it isn't (I really don't think it's real). And yes I believe what the angels taught people is fully explainable by science, but I can't disassociate it in my mind from the nonsense and superstition that gullible people believe in. My mind is obviously flawed because I'm just a human and all humans are flawed, but I can't pretend to acknowledge something that I don't. i am thankful for the answers, though. in the other forum id just get called a munafik and have my thread locked lol
Reply

BurningHeart
04-28-2018, 07:20 AM
wear a "hand of fatima" - Now what forum was that where people would say this?

Regarding Astrology/Zodiac signs. If I am not wrong, Imam Nawawi (rahimullah) has written an entire chapter called 'The prohibition of going to soothsayers, astrologers and diviners, and seeking omens' in Riyadh Saliheen. And some of the hadith are clear and indicates the seriousness of the sin. Such as:

'If one takes knowledge from the stars [i.e., astrology], he in fact takes a branch of sorcery. The more knowledge he gains [of that], the more sins he gains.' [Abu Dawud; commentary from Munawi, Fayd al-Qadir]

'If one goes to a soothsayer, asks about something, and believers it, his prayers will not be accepted for forty days.' [Muslim]

Let it be clear, and loud. Superstitions were a belief of the people in the jahiliyah (pre-Islamic period). Islam's pristine teachings negated bad omens and superstitions replacing them with taqdir (destiny). As a muslim, we believe that nothing happens without the Will of Allah and we reiterate this in our daily conversations when we say insha-Allah (if Allah rabul 'izza wills).

As for Sihr (black magic) is concerned, even our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) was afflicted by it. And it is a reality. But that does not means to associate every ill or misfortune to Sihr like some people do.

I think the thing that is troubling your mind is that people put more faith on these things such as astrology, superstitious and black magic then upon Allah rabul 'izza. It should not only trouble you, but every muslim if that is the case. Because as a muslim we should have ultimate imaan and yaqeen that everything happens by the will of Allah rabul 'izza.

Like someone was once giving a sort of advice and mentioned:

'If Allah rabul 'izza plans to make someone sick, and if the whole world tries to go against this where every medical doctor or specialist tries their best or every black magician, astrologers or whoever pushes to go against this will. Then ultimately that will happen what Allah rabul 'izza wills.'

As Allah rabul 'izza states in the Quran:

وَيَرْزُقْهُ مِنْ حَيْثُ لَا يَحْتَسِبُ ۚ وَمَن يَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ فَهُوَ حَسْبُهُ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بَالِغُ أَمْرِهِ ۚ قَدْ جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدْرًا - 65:3
And will provide for him from where he does not expect. And whoever relies upon Allah - then He is sufficient for him. Indeed, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Allah has already set for everything a [decreed] extent.

So if you do agree with this all, then where is the problem?

p.s the situation you stated about imaan going down, and how things went down as described. It is a bit concerning tho.
Reply

cinnamonrolls1
04-28-2018, 12:23 PM
Hands of fatima are amulets, and amulets are forbidden.
Reply

Junon
04-28-2018, 09:49 PM
Salaam sister!

Originally Posted by Vitamins
Jazakallah br yahya. like br anatolian said, i always try to come up with scientific explanations in my head of ayat like these. they are involuntary thoughts, mostly.
Be careful not to fall into the trap of 'scientism' or 'logical positivism' they are dead ends and will impoverish your ability to think, (can lead to reductionism etc)
Reply

Vitamins
04-29-2018, 12:06 AM
Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam sister!



Be careful not to fall into the trap of 'scientism' or 'logical positivism' they are dead ends and will impoverish your ability to think, (can lead to reductionism etc)
ws. that is a useful warning, but the mind wanders with or without permission.

Originally Posted by BurningHeart
'If Allah rabul 'izza plans to make someone sick, and if the whole world tries to go against this where every medical doctor or specialist tries their best or every black magician, astrologers or whoever pushes to go against this will. Then ultimately that will happen what Allah rabul 'izza wills.'

As Allah rabul 'izza states in the Quran:

وَيَرْزُقْهُ مِنْ حَيْثُ لَا يَحْتَسِبُ ۚ وَمَن يَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ فَهُوَ حَسْبُهُ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بَالِغُ أَمْرِهِ ۚ قَدْ جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدْرًا - 65:3
And will provide for him from where he does not expect. And whoever relies upon Allah - then He is sufficient for him. Indeed, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Allah has already set for everything a [decreed] extent.

So if you do agree with this all, then where is the problem?

p.s the situation you stated about imaan going down, and how things went down as described. It is a bit concerning tho.
There is no problem in my mind, but others have made me feel that my line of thinking is a problem. When you are surrounded by superstitious people who associate idiocy with religion (christianity, islam, others), it leaves a bad impression on you. Sometimes it's hard to separate religion from culture. I agree that Allah alone is the only one who can help or harm anything. It's superstition that I have an issue with, and getting called a disbeliever for not being superstitious annoys me and affects my iman. I guess having weak iman in the first place makes it more difficult.



Thanks everyone for the help :sl:
Reply

Zzz_
04-29-2018, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by Vitamins
I agree completely, may Allah guide me. but this is how my mind works, I can't help it. do you have any lectures that deal with this issue that you could share?
Ameen. may Allah give us all better understanding of the deen.

some articles on it inshallah.
http://www.islamawareness.net/BlackMagic/magic.html

https://www.islamreligion.com/articl...-islam-part-1/

and some videos on it.







Note:
50:00 mark he talks about tv magic as not being haram, but admits greater ulima (scholars) states it is haram, because Islam not only forbids haram but anything can lead to haram and this tv magic stuff is just one step towards it.

I don't know how to do that. I can't acknowledge that something is real if it isn't (I really don't think it's real). And yes I believe what the angels taught people is fully explainable by science, but I can't disassociate it in my mind from the nonsense and superstition that gullible people believe in. My mind is obviously flawed because I'm just a human and all humans are flawed, but I can't pretend to acknowledge something that I don't. i am thankful for the answers, though. in the other forum id just get called a munafik and have my thread locked lol
you have to remember that science is not the beginning and end of all, it is nothing more than step of procedures to find if something is true or not. It has not reached a level that you can use it as a measuring tool for everything in existence. The world is much bigger than what the science of man can explain. Just as angels teach people, jinns too teach the people. Just as angels help, jinns too help people (magicians). Those people who called you munafiq were too quick to shoot you down and less capable of helping you understand the matter.
Reply

Ümit
05-03-2018, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by Vitamins
Alsalamu Alaikum. I was born to a christian family, but abandoned christianity early on. I converted to Islam when I was a young adult, and by now, I've been a muslim longer than i've been christian or irreligious. Lately I feel empty of any deen at all.

At first I was over-zealous, then as the years went on, I mellowed out. One example (out of too many to count) would be that I went from full niqab, to hijab, to turbans and now I'm in hats/beanies. I knew no other muslims when I converted, so I joined another islamic forum right after I converted. I lurked there for many years, but I quit because unislamic attitudes there were hurting my iman. Every single thread disgusted me. But losing the only muslims I knew made my iman even worse.

I've struggled with my iman, though, since the day I converted. I've always believed in the tenets of faith, but members of the other forum used to tell me I was still an atheist because I can't force myself to believe in magic or jinn. Even to this day, I can't make myself believe in it. I just think of "magic" as ridiculous superstition. I laugh when I hear my nonmuslim coworkers discussing their zodiac signs and horoscopes, ghost stories, or trying to convince me that opening my umbrella inside is "bad luck". They will tell me to knock on wood, and when I refuse, they do it for me. Or they'll shush me when I say something "unlucky" by saying "Oh god dont jinx it!" and I reply that I'm not superstitious.

The muslims on the forum weren't much different, except in their version, they kept telling me to make "taweez", wear a "hand of fatima", rub butter or to sprinkle salt in my doorways and under my bed. I just get so fed up with these attitudes that in my anger, my iman suffers. It gives me negative/insulting thoughts against religious people. I can't help these thoughts, even though I know they are arrogant and judgemental astagfirulla.

Have any of you brothers and sisters had similar feelings to me?
Hello, you are confusing stuff with each other. magic is something not superstition. zodiac signs, horoscopes are nonsence. Ghosts as in wandering human souls are nonsence. opening an umbrella or black cat crossing your path, or to knock on wood is nonsence. magic, jinns and evil eye though are real.

I do not understand that you can believe in Allah, angels and even shaytaan, but you do not believe in jinns. they are also just a creature of Allah. they are mentioned in the Quran just like angels, yet you choose to believe in angels but not jinns...can you explain that?

The Ghosts that people are describing are not real ghosts because they do not exist. souls of deceased people are too occupied to wander around so this is impossible. those "ghosts" they are describing are just jinns. and jinns can do stuff which might appear as magic, stuff that appears different than reality.

Evil eye exists, but you cannot prevent the evil eye by carrying an evil eye amulet. you can prevent it by reciting surah Nasr and Falakh.

So, no...I do not have this similar feelings...I too am a scientific person who looks for logical explanations, and neither do I believe in this superstition stuff, but I do believe in jinns, magic and evil eye. I do not have to force myself to believe in it, because it is still logically explainable.

Selamun aleykum
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CuriousonTruth
01-29-2019, 05:11 PM
If you change jinns into "extra-dimensional" beings that probably would help to make it sound less medieval in your mind.
Reply

Ümit
01-29-2019, 11:13 PM
First...why would Jinns sound medieval?
Second...extra-dimensional sounds so fictional.
İ could not take a person talking about extra dimensionals serious...could you?
Besides...angels and other creators are also extra dimensional...
Reply

Nitro Zeus
01-30-2019, 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Agree

Magic is, literally, haram
Yup, not only haram but is also a disbelief because it involves the calling upon Jinn, right?
Reply

space
01-30-2019, 09:57 PM
It's very easy to explain.. if you don't believe in magic, you don't believe in existence of jinn.. if you don't believe in existence of jinn, you don' believe in the Quran, hence you are a wrong Muslim. So simple it is
Reply

Insaanah
01-30-2019, 10:34 PM
It has become popular in modern times to deny that magic has any reality to it at all. Popular stories about the effects of magic are explained away as the result of psychological disorders like hysteria, etc., and it is pointed out that magic only affects those who believe in it . Magical feats are all described as hoaxes based on a series of illusions and tricks.

In spite of the fact that Islam rejects the effects of charms and amulets with regards to the prevention of misfortune and the attraction of good fortune, it does recognize that some aspects of magic are real. It is true that much of the magic around today is a product of trickery involving gadgets cleverly designed to deceive audiences. But, just as in the case of fortunetelling, there exist around the world some people who practice real magic resulting from their contact with the Shayateen (the evil Jinns ). Before looking at the Jinn and their abilities, let us look at the evidence from the Qur’an and the Sunnah used to support the position that Islam recognizes a reality to some manifestations of magic. Such an approach to the subject is essential, as the ultimate criterion for truth and falsehood in Islam lies in these two sources of divine revelation to man.

“They follow what the shayateen [devil] related concerning Solomon’s kingdom , but it was not Solomon who disbelieved, it was the devils who disbelieved by teaching the people magic and that which was revealed to the angels Haroot and Maroot in Babylon. Although the two would not teach anyone anything until after they warned them saying , ‘ Verily we are only a test and trial, so do not commit disbelief ’ But the people went ahead and learned from the two of them what could cause the separation of a man from his wife.
However, they could not harm anyone with it except by Allah’s permission. They [in fact] learned what would only harm their own souls and not benefit them. Verily they knew that whoever purchases it would have no share in the Hereafter. Evil indeed was the price for which they sold their own souls if they only knew.”

(Qur’an 2; 102)

Eternal residence in the fire could only be a punishment for an extremely haram action. The verse also proves that the magician as well as one who learns or teaches magic are kafirs (disbelievers). The phrase, “ Whoever purchases it” (i.e. acquires it) is general in its implications. It includes whoever acquires wealth from teaching it, whoever pays to leam it, or simply whoever has knowledge of it. Allah also referred to magic as being kufr (disbelief) in the phrase: “ Verily we are a test and a trial so do not commit disbelief”and “it was not Solomon who committed disbelief it was the devils who disbelieved by teaching the people magic" (Qur’an 2: 102).

The previously mentioned verse proves without a doubt that some magic has reality to it. There is also a hadith in Sahih al- Bukhari and other books of hadith which mentions that the Prophet (saws) himself suffered from the effects of magic:

“Zayd ibn Arqam reported that a Jew by the name of Labeeb ibn ‘Asam, cast a magical spell on the Prophet saws and when he began to suffer from it, Jibreel (Gabriel a.s) came to him and revealed the Mu ‘awwa-dhatan ( Surahs al-Falaq and an-Nas ) then said to him, ‘Surely it was a Jew who cast this spell on you and the magical charm is in a certain well’ The Prophet saws sent ‘ Ali ibn Abi Talib (May Allah be pleased with him) to go and fetch the charm. When he returned with it, the Prophet saws told him to unite the knots in it, one by one, and recite a verse from the Surahs with each. When he did so, the Prophet saws got up as if he had been released from being tied up .”
Collected by 'Abd ibn Humayd and al-Bayhaqi and much of it can also be
found in Bukhari, (Arabic-Eng.), vol. 7, Pp. 443-4, hadith no. 660 and
Muslim, (Eng. Trans.), vol. 3, Pp. 1192-3, hadith no. 5428.

From The Fundamentals of Tawheed by Dr Abu Aminah Bilal Philips, chapter on magic
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Fun...%20Tawheed.pdf

So belief in the existence of magic, and in jinns, is part of Islam.
Reply

MazharShafiq
01-31-2019, 06:02 PM
According to the dictionary, magic has two meanings:

Deception, guile, sleight of hand and legerdemain; and according to the book Qamus al-Lughah, magic means 'to deceive'.

کُلُّ ماَ لَطُفَ وَ دَقَّ.

“All such things, the causes of which are invisible and mysterious.”

In Raghib's book al-Mufradat, which is devoted to analysing words appearing in the Qur’an, three meanings have been mentioned for it:

a. Deception and imaginations, which are devoid of reality - like sleight of hand.

b. Attracting the Satans by special means and seeking assistance from them.

And there is another meaning that some have been given to imagine and that is: It is possible to transform the essence and form of people or entities by certain means; for example, transforming man by means of it, into an animal. However, this kind is nothing more than mere fancy, and without an iota of reality.1

Studying the 51 instances of the usage of the word سحر (magic) and its derivatives in the chapters of the Noble Qur’an, such as Taha, Shu'ara, Yunus, A'raf, etc., in connection with the stories of the prophets Musa (a.s.), 'Isa (a.s.) and the Noble Prophet (S), we conclude that magic, according to the Qur’an, can be classified into two categories:

Those instances wherein the objective is deception, jugglery, sleight of hand and legerdemain and possesses no reality, as we read:

فَإِِذاَ حِبَالُهُمْ وَ عِصِيُّهُم يُخَيَّلُ إِِلَيهِ مِنْ سِحْرِهِمْ أَنَّهَا تَسْعَـى

“Then lo! their cords and their rods– it was imaged to him on account of their magic as if they were running.”2

Another verse says:

فَلَمَّا أَلْقَوا سَحَرُوا أََعيُنَ النَّاسِ وَ اسْتَرْهَبُوهُمْ

“So when they cast, they deceived the people's eyes and frightened them, and they produced a
mighty enchantment.”3
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