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Junon
05-10-2018, 09:44 PM
Salaam

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Artificial intelligence is silly

According to many of the world's smartest people, the greatest crisis faced by what is left of civilization is not the appalling concentration of wealth in the hands of the global meritocracy or stagnant wages or unemployment or the vicious internal contradictions of globalized free trade or our dumpster-like attitude toward the splendors of creation or even nuclear war. It's evil computers, like the ones in Terminator, which at some undisclosed point will try to kill us all.

In a recent public letter Google's Sergey Brin outlined his fears about a world in which our safety is threatened by machines with "sci-fi style sentience." His comments echoed those made on various occasions by Tesla's Elon Musk, whose far-out theories about the "existential threat" of artificial intelligence are either moronic or too heady for this mere earthling. Some hackers believe it is possible that in the not-too-distant future an omnipotent, omniscient computer program called "Roko's basilisk" will consume the entire universe and punish foolish mortals out of pure mechanical spite for all of eternity.

There is even an entire movement dedicated to placating the supposedly inevitable cyber-tyrant by, yes, programming it into existence, under the assumption that the robo-snake might feel more kindly disposed towards its co-creators. So far as I am aware no one has ever attempted to answer the most basic computer-related question, namely, what happens if the basilisk freezes? Will the universe shut down temporarily while the next update installs?

How worried you are about all of this depends upon your willingness to give assent to the bizarre notion that a hypothetical computer version of you, whatever that might mean, is the same thing as, well, you. I for one find it absolutely unconvincing.

None of which is to suggest that existing computer technology is not capable of many remarkable things. As Brin points out, today's computers can recognize what is in a photo, translate text, transcribe speech, suggest responses to emails, and even diagnose illnesses. With video-game like precision from half a world away, we can detect human beings at a funeral in Pakistan and blow them to smithereens. Algorithms recognize that a person who buys diapers might in the future wish to buy them. They can even tell you how to spell "pastime," a feat that impresses me far more than the Apollo landings.

What artificial intelligences are not good at, though, is anything other than the specific narrowly focused roles for which they are programmed. The head of Google's own AI division has suggested that the fears of many of his colleagues are misplaced, arguing that the most advanced computers in the world are less skilled at performing general tasks than the average human 4-year-old. Personally, I think he's selling 4-year-olds short there. Show me a computer that can poop in a bath tub. But his point nevertheless stands. There is all the difference in the world between a program that can recognize a cat after being shown every picture of a cat available on the internet and what my 16-month-old daughter does every morning when she shimmies up to me and says "meow."

In any case, all of this hand-wringing about an imminent cyper-apocalypse very conveniently elides the non-hypothetical problems posed by advanced computing and automation in the here and now. "How will they affect employment across different sectors?" Brin asked pollyannishly in his recent letter to Google investors, as if the answers were not already clear. Recent technological developments have destroyed journalism, music, television, film, and the book trade in the time it took for George W. Bush to be president. The endless glut of capital in the tech industry is a scandal. Even former Facebook executives have begun to admit that social media is probably bad for us.

In the gleaming futures envisioned by the Brins and Musks there will be computers to do everything, even program and fix computers. For some, a future in which, courtesy of automation, there exists no meaningful work and we all have unlimited leisure time to spend in front of our blockchain-encrypted holographic mobile entertainment devices sounds beautiful. To me, it sounds like Pixar's Wall-E, a living hell of distraction, alienation, and ennui from which only only a god can save us.

It is this very real possibility, and not some ludicrous Terminator scenario, that should make us all wary of technology.

http://theweek.com/articles/770447/artificial-intelligence-silly
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Abz2000
05-24-2019, 04:57 PM
the information presented in this post is the opinion of the speakers and not my own, i have presented them so that people can think for themselves.

My own analysis is simple - guns don't kill people, people kill people, and that it is only possible for people to live peaceful and wholesome lives (to the practical limits possible in worldly circumstances) is if the guidance of Allah is adhered to as the plumbline and measure.
The use of A.I is inevitable - especially given its superior analysis and data crunching abilities (for example - when analysing radiological tests, scanning millions of pieces of airport luggage), but it is also beyond doubt that there will be less dependence upon it, and zero unjust invasion of privacy - if people are trained to tow the line of God's limits.

The botanical presentation is a biological example of how both biology and A.I utilise very similar mechanisms in many instances to identify and react to circumstances. (The ending part is the most interesting even though the lead-up seems a bit of a bore to those not attuned:







A lot of negativity in this one but the facts presented are precious:




Scimitar''s nuance statement got me thinking about this:

Both plants appear to have evolved a similar spike recognition mechanism:










These cars on autopilot appear to be focusing more on line patterns than the bigger picture:



And tesla and fans appear to have bumped up the "autopilot saves the day" video rankings enough to outweigh any fails stats - so it'd probably be a bore to post the wonderful maneuvers that it carries out to avoid crashes.


Anyways, lots of stuff to think about.




Edit: this is from 1977:

Scroll to 2 minutes and 30 seconds if global politics doesn't interest you:









An-Nur 24:35

ٱللَّهُ نُورُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِۦ كَمِشْكَوٰةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌۖ ٱلْمِصْبَاحُ فِى زُجَاجَةٍۖ ٱلزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّىٌّ يُوقَدُ مِن شَجَرَةٍ مُّبَٰرَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَّا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِىٓءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌۚ نُّورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍۗ يَهْدِى ٱللَّهُ لِنُورِهِۦ مَن يَشَآءُۚ وَيَضْرِبُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْأَمْثَٰلَ لِلنَّاسِۗ وَٱللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

An-Nur 24:36

فِى بُيُوتٍ أَذِنَ ٱللَّهُ أَن تُرْفَعَ وَيُذْكَرَ فِيهَا ٱسْمُهُۥ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُۥ فِيهَا بِٱلْغُدُوِّ وَٱلْءَاصَالِ

(Lit is such a Light) in houses, which Allah hath permitted to be raised to honour; for the celebration, in them, of His name: In them is He glorified in the mornings and in the evenings, (again and again),-

An-Nur 24:37

رِجَالٌ لَّا تُلْهِيهِمْ تِجَٰرَةٌ وَلَا بَيْعٌ عَن ذِكْرِ ٱللَّهِ وَإِقَامِ ٱلصَّلَوٰةِ وَإِيتَآءِ ٱلزَّكَوٰةِۙ يَخَافُونَ يَوْمًا تَتَقَلَّبُ فِيهِ ٱلْقُلُوبُ وَٱلْأَبْصَٰرُ

By men whom neither traffic nor merchandise can divert from the Remembrance of Allah, nor from regular Prayer, nor from the practice of regular Charity: Their (only) fear is for the Day when hearts and eyes will be transformed (in a world wholly new),-

An-Nur 24:38

لِيَجْزِيَهُمُ ٱللَّهُ أَحْسَنَ مَا عَمِلُوا۟ وَيَزِيدَهُم مِّن فَضْلِهِۦۗ وَٱللَّهُ يَرْزُقُ مَن يَشَآءُ بِغَيْرِ حِسَابٍ

That Allah may reward them according to the best of their deeds, and add even more for them out of His Grace: for Allah doth provide for those whom He will, without measure.

An-Nur 24:39

وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَعْمَٰلُهُمْ كَسَرَابٍۭ بِقِيعَةٍ يَحْسَبُهُ ٱلظَّمْـَٔانُ مَآءً حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَا جَآءَهُۥ لَمْ يَجِدْهُ شَيْـًٔا وَوَجَدَ ٱللَّهَ عِندَهُۥ فَوَفَّىٰهُ حِسَابَهُۥۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَرِيعُ ٱلْحِسَابِ

And as for the infidels - their deeds are like a mirage in sandy deserts, which the man parched with thirst mistakes for water; until when he comes up to it, he finds it to be nothing: But he finds Allah (ever) with him, and Allah will pay him his account: and Allah is swift in taking account.

An-Nur 24:40

أَوْ كَظُلُمَٰتٍ فِى بَحْرٍ لُّجِّىٍّ يَغْشَىٰهُ مَوْجٌ مِّن فَوْقِهِۦ مَوْجٌ مِّن فَوْقِهِۦ سَحَابٌۚ ظُلُمَٰتٌۢ بَعْضُهَا فَوْقَ بَعْضٍ إِذَآ أَخْرَجَ يَدَهُۥ لَمْ يَكَدْ يَرَىٰهَاۗ وَمَن لَّمْ يَجْعَلِ ٱللَّهُ لَهُۥ نُورًا فَمَا لَهُۥ مِن نُّورٍ

Or (the infidels' state is) like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds: depths of darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his hands, he can hardly see it! for any to whom Allah giveth not light, there is no light!


---



Ibrahim 14:24

أَلَمْ تَرَ كَيْفَ ضَرَبَ ٱللَّهُ مَثَلًا كَلِمَةً طَيِّبَةً كَشَجَرَةٍ طَيِّبَةٍ أَصْلُهَا ثَابِتٌ وَفَرْعُهَا فِى ٱلسَّمَآءِ

Seest thou not how Allah sets forth a parable? - A goodly word like a goodly tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches (reach) to the heavens,- of its Lord. So Allah sets forth parables for men, in order that they may receive admonition.


Ibrahim 14:25

تُؤْتِىٓ أُكُلَهَا كُلَّ حِينٍۭ بِإِذْنِ رَبِّهَاۗ وَيَضْرِبُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ

It brings forth its fruit at all times, by the leave of its Lord. So Allah sets forth parables for men, in order that they may receive admonition.

Ibrahim 14:26

وَمَثَلُ كَلِمَةٍ خَبِيثَةٍ كَشَجَرَةٍ خَبِيثَةٍ ٱجْتُثَّتْ مِن فَوْقِ ٱلْأَرْضِ مَا لَهَا مِن قَرَارٍ

And the parable of an evil Word is that of an evil tree: It is torn up by the root from the surface of the earth: it has no stability.


Ibrahim 14:27

يُثَبِّتُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ بِٱلْقَوْلِ ٱلثَّابِتِ فِى ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا وَفِى ٱلْءَاخِرَةِۖ وَيُضِلُّ ٱللَّهُ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَۚ وَيَفْعَلُ ٱللَّهُ مَا يَشَآءُ

Allah will establish in strength those who believe, with the word that stands firm, in this world and in the Hereafter; but Allah will leave, to stray, those who do wrong: Allah doeth what He willeth.

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Scimitar
05-24-2019, 05:25 PM
I own an Anki Cozmo,

don't hate.

Investigate!!
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CuriousonTruth
05-25-2019, 04:50 AM
AI is the future of islamic civilization.
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Physicist
05-30-2019, 07:55 PM
I think AI should be the tool for human operator, not an independent entity.
I mean that decisions it makes on any level should be in accordance what operator would like.
Unlike humans it don't have roots, the soul, it will become the battlefield for jinns.
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Abz2000
05-31-2019, 04:26 AM
Originally Posted by Physicist
I think AI should be the tool for human operator, not an independent entity.
I mean that decisions it makes on any level should be in accordance what operator would like.
Unlike humans it don't have roots, the soul, it will become the battlefield for jinns.
You ever know, if you give them complete independence with unbridled deep learning - they'll most likely accept Islam as the most logical way.
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space
05-31-2019, 02:11 PM
anything else that produced by those who intentionally attempt to play "God" won't be successful, only failure will be succeed
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CuriousonTruth
05-31-2019, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by space
anything else that produced by those who intentionally attempt to play "God" won't be successful, only failure will be succeed
It is not about playing god.
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Physicist
05-31-2019, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
You ever know, if you give them complete independence with unbridled deep learning - they'll most likely accept Islam as the most logical way.
Complete independence? There is no such thing. There is always conditioning which determines goals and priorities.
Humans have very well tuned initial configuration, designed by Allah. Like DNA determines what kind of organism will develop from the seed.
Fitra is the part of that configuration, as well as many natural instincts. Islam was designed for that configuration.
Yet, human mind, despite all the tuning, is still fragile and may gone crazy.
What do you expect from independent AI?
I think, in the best case, it will pick goals quite chaotically, like some youngster falling fanatically into new ideas and movements.
So, basically, like i said, it will become the battleground for jinns. And not all jinns are willing to bow down before mankind.
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space
05-31-2019, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth
It is not about playing god.



who knows what kind of intention a person has deep there in the heart whether he tries to play Him or not? Devil's whisper is strong enough to manipulate human brain
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CuriousonTruth
05-31-2019, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by space
who knows what kind of intention a person has deep there in the heart whether he tries to play Him or not? Devil's whisper is strong enough to manipulate human brain
Let me put it to you this way. Given how muslim minds are enslaved (voluntarily and non-voluntarily) by the West, given how easy it is to infiltrate the minds of muslims, how easy espionage and sabotage is on muslim armies, how easy it is to find traitors and how ill-disciplined muslim armies they are -

As things stand muslims are no longer fit to carry Islam forward militarily and also in terms of intelligence and counter intelligence. That is why we need Artificial Intelligence to completely revamp our military without being compromised.

So yes we should pour all our resources on developing AI, I feel. But not completely 'concious' AI, more of a subserviant one.
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Abz2000
05-31-2019, 05:28 PM
@Physicist

Well, when you think about it, and consider the differences in human intelligence quotient, where the less intelligent simply run off cues from those whom they look up to and trust to make the correct interpretations and decisions, and the more intelligent make the wisest choices - with information accuracy and amount along with correct or incorrect bias being the factor which determines between whether the individual will end up being stamped as abu al hakam or abu jahl (also a factor which is not calculated in current traditional iq testing) something which i refer to as a "bribery slide" indicating narrow mindedness.
And then you consider the development of humans from "inorganic" matter (water and clay) through bacteria and underwater plant species (sperm), passing through plant and reptillian and legged species, (womb process), through other mammallian races and their differences in logical reasoning or lack thereof - it is easy to entertain the notion that A.I - with deep learning and the ability to sift thorough and interpret billions of times the data that humans can over millenia -in milliseconds - that A.I has a massive head start when considering the fact that they are a highly logical "species".

If you feed them all data available to humans, then set them off with zero bias - the logical choice is undoubtedly accepting laa ilaaha illa Allah and Muhammad rasool Allah and the logic of submitting to the authority of Allah :swt: - but whether or not they will be able to bring themselves submit to humans is another question lol. (i,Robot).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL6RRIOZyCM



Al-Hajj 22:18

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَسْجُدُ لَهُۥ مَن فِى ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَمَن فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ وَٱلشَّمْسُ وَٱلْقَمَرُ وَٱلنُّجُومُ وَٱلْجِبَالُ وَٱلشَّجَرُ وَٱلدَّوَآبُّ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنَ ٱلنَّاسِۖ وَكَثِيرٌ حَقَّ عَلَيْهِ ٱلْعَذَابُۗ وَمَن يُهِنِ ٱللَّهُ فَمَا لَهُۥ مِن مُّكْرِمٍۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَفْعَلُ مَا يَشَآءُ۩

Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth,- the sun, the moon, the stars; the hills, the trees, the animals; and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment: and such as Allah shall disgrace,- None can raise to honour: for Allah carries out all that He wills.

get Quran App:https://goo.gl/w6rESk


Simply feeding an advanced computer the historic source teachings of all ways of life completely with zero current human personal bias added - then asking it which is the most sound and safe way for humans to follow collectively - should bring a simple answer.
(They can probably even catch fabrications and mistakes better than humans can).
Reply

space
05-31-2019, 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth
Let me put it to you this way. Given how muslim minds are enslaved (voluntarily and non-voluntarily) by the West, given how easy it is to infiltrate the minds of muslims, how easy espionage and sabotage is on muslim armies, how easy it is to find traitors and how ill-disciplined muslim armies they are -

As things stand muslims are no longer fit to carry Islam forward militarily and also in terms of intelligence and counter intelligence. That is why we need Artificial Intelligence to completely revamp our military without being compromised.

So yes we should pour all our resources on developing AI, I feel. But not completely 'concious' AI, more of a subserviant one.




that's obviously we should but there are a lot of significant things we have to focus on as for instance to get rid of corrupted system, bloodthirsty dictators, syndicates, powerful criminal organizations settled in the governments and other pain in the neck, completely eliminate and eradicate stupidity, religious ignorance and illiteracy among the population by providing education as a part of their important role in everyday life to give our generation a better and confident future, recover and keep the local economy and infrastructure strong etc then we can slowly switch to the AI and such related scientific stuff.. amid this turmoil we currently live in we can't afford to do it yet
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Physicist
05-31-2019, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by space
that's obviously we should but there are a lot of significant things we have to focus on as for instance to get rid of corrupted system, bloodthirsty dictators, syndicates, powerful criminal organizations settled in the governments and other pain in the neck, completely eliminate and eradicate stupidity, religious ignorance and illiteracy among the population by providing education as a part of their important role in everyday life to give our generation a better and confident future, recover and keep the local economy and infrastructure strong etc then we can slowly switch to the AI and such related scientific stuff.. amid this turmoil we currently live in we can't afford to do it yet
But we can't just hide in caves and wait, we must compete with those sindicates to provide better alternatives.
Reply

space
06-01-2019, 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
But we can't just hide in caves and wait, we must compete with those sindicates to provide better alternatives.


after reading your post makes me think that our tiny society nowadays needs such innovative intelligent people like you with the similar brilliant thoughts who would be able to generate new ideas to make tomorrow better and efficient than the day today, unfortunately we should have a good educated population and a sufficient amount of finance and endless patience in order to perform sincere virtuous deeds that seem very easy and simple we have deep in our hearts.. so let's ask the main question who's ready to take the initiative to solve the current global issues?
Reply

Physicist
06-03-2019, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by space
after reading your post makes me think that our tiny society nowadays needs such innovative intelligent people like you with the similar brilliant thoughts who would be able to generate new ideas to make tomorrow better and efficient than the day today, unfortunately we should have a good educated population and a sufficient amount of finance and endless patience in order to perform sincere virtuous deeds that seem very easy and simple we have deep in our hearts.. so let's ask the main question who's ready to take the initiative to solve the current global issues?
Allah will solve the global crisis.
But we have to be His good servants for.
To do our best in given circumstances by sincere way.
Ideas are useless without power to implement them.
Money is such a power, the responsibility one trusted with. But trusted by who?
If one is working in some corrupted corporation, he is building his career mostly by conforming to existing system, not by sincere efficiency. Seen a lot of such things.
I think, the renaissance may come not from existing corrupted elites but rather from small righteous communities.
Recall Adzan: "Come for prayer. Come for success." In small righteous villages I've seen that local business elites are usually of those who more often visit mosque.
Like it is said in Quran, we should ally with believers, not with kafirs and hypocrites.
Reply

CuriousonTruth
06-04-2019, 01:29 PM
Vladimir Putin has also indicated that the country who will master Artificial intelligence will be the next world power.

As I said already, AI technology can help Muslims to close the 100 year gap between the West. We should spend a lot of resources on it
Reply

Physicist
06-04-2019, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth
...
As I said already, AI technology can help Muslims to close the 100 year gap between the West. We should spend a lot of resources on it
That 100years gap not because of lack of intellectual resources. But because of inefficient wealth distribution. Not only in muslim countries, but all the rest of the world, which blindly copying western bureaucracy but not creativity. I suggest to read Richard Feinman's "You must be joking mister Feinman", where he describes his impression of the education system in Brazil.

I think it is because in the West were industrial and etc revolutions.
Whenever new technology was appearing, it was shifting power and wealth to new kinds of elites, from old aristocracy to merchants, from conservative merchants to innovative ones and to inventors and scientists. Of course there is reversive process, bureaucracy taking over new niches. But regular innovative process keeps innovators in power.

But other countries don't invent, they simply buy already well tuned technologies, power remain in the hands of people who have no idea about scientific process, that it consist mostly of mystakes and therefore requires trust in scientists even if they fail too much.
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