What's the score so far?
Originally Posted by czgibson
Is that when you plan to follow and obey and worship him as a "god"? Like, after you've convinced him of the error of his ways and when he sees the light?
And until then, wots ur plan? Accuse him of being the antichrist that you've shaped with your own hands and treated unjustly?
Isn't it better to be just and truthful whilst seeking the truth yourselves? Why on earth are you following him and playing chicken and "chips"? Because you believe none of it's true and because he's either a god or an impostor? But how can he be an impostor and threat if there's nothing super-natural? (The wicked fleeth when none pursueth).
Isn't he just a human being with rights? Why the brain picking?
Don't you know how to hold a vertical plumb bob yourselves and how to mark a horizontal spirit level according to truthful measure? if you don't - why deny him and dispute and reject and attempt to move the correct markings and push with the thumb when he shows you, yet still attempt to avoid responsibility by pinning
your falsehood on him? How do you judge?
Also think - does holding a fixed horizontal and vertical torture device to a bent wall tell you that it's upright? And does it pass the engineering test? Or is it a scarecrow to chase away demons?
Why torture an "impostor" into measuring for you?
Surah 44. Smoke
2. By the Book that makes things clear;-
3. We sent it down during a Blessed Night: for We (ever) wish to warn (against Evil).
4. In the (Night) is made distinct every affair of wisdom,
5. By command, from Our Presence. For We (ever) send (revelations),
6. As Mercy from thy Lord: for He hears and knows (all things);
7. The Lord of the heavens and the earth and all between them, if ye (but) have an assured faith.
8. There is no god but He: It is He Who gives life and gives death,- The Lord and Cherisher to you and your earliest ancestors.
9. Yet they play about in doubt.
10. Then watch thou for the Day that the sky will bring forth a kind of smoke (or mist) plainly visible,
11. Enveloping the people: this will be a Penalty Grievous.
12. (They will say: ) "Our Lord! remove the Penalty from us, for we do really believe!"
13. How shall the message be (effectual) for them, seeing that a Messenger explaining things clearly has (already) come to them,-
14. Yet they turn away from him and say: "Tutored (by others), a man possessed /crazy!"
15. We shall indeed remove the Penalty for a while, (but) truly ye will revert (to your wicked ways).
16. One day We shall seize you with a mighty onslaught: We will indeed (then) exact Retribution!
17. We did, before them, try the people of Pharaoh: there came to them an apostle most honourable,
18. Saying: "Restore to me the Servants of Allah. I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust;
19. "And be not arrogant as against Allah. for I come to you with authority manifest.
20. "For me, I have sought safety with my Lord and your Lord, against your injuring me.
21. "If ye believe me not, at least keep yourselves away from me."
22. Then he (eventually) cried to his Lord: "These are indeed a people given to crime."
23. (The reply came: ) "March forth with My Servants by night: for ye are sure to be pursued.
24. "And leave the sea as a furrow (divided): for they are a host (destined) to be drowned."
25. How many were the gardens and springs they left behind,
26. And corn-fields and noble buildings,
27. And wealth (and conveniences of life), wherein they had taken such delight!
28. Thus (was their end)! And We made other people inherit (those things)!
29. And neither heaven nor earth shed a tear over them: nor were they given a respite (again).
From Quran ch.44
14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17Judgment also will I lay to the line,
and righteousness to the plummet:
and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.