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Raymann
10-05-2018, 09:37 AM
Is it?
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Ümit
10-05-2018, 09:38 AM
yes it is.
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azc
10-05-2018, 10:08 AM
Originally Posted by Raymann
Is it?
Why do you ask this question to Muslims...?
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Ümit
10-05-2018, 10:10 AM
@azc :
I think you are going to regret this question:p
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azc
10-05-2018, 10:54 AM
Originally Posted by Ümit
@azc :
I think you are going to regret this question:p
No, bro. Anyways, let us see what stuff of anti islamic sites he regurgates
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anatolian
10-05-2018, 11:25 AM
Oui.
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Eric H
10-05-2018, 03:21 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Raymann;

Is secularism a way of peace? The answer has to be no, because you are free to make up your own rules.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric
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Futuwwa
10-05-2018, 04:42 PM
What exactly is a "religion of peace" ?
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Junon
10-05-2018, 05:41 PM
Salaam
Is it?
My my how original, my response.



Its a loaded question, its like answering "Have you stopped beating your wife?".

Dont take the bait!
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Mandy
10-05-2018, 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
What exactly is a "religion of peace" ?
I completely agree that this question is so wide open, its hard to answer correctly. I hope rayman is not hoping to start some sort of argument over this.
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eesa the kiwi
10-05-2018, 06:50 PM
Considering the bloodshed that happened in the 20th century as a result of secular ideologies communism capitalism etc I do not think atheists have any right to be pointing fingers

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
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xboxisdead
10-05-2018, 06:53 PM
I love this place!!!! May Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) make it easy for all Muslims and Muslimah in the trail of the grave and afterlife and may Allah subhanau Wa Talaa make the true Muslims and Muslimah enter high level of paradise and enter al-ferdous ameen. Wallahi if I see a brother or sister them been attacked by non-Muslims I will fight with them against the enemies even if it causes harm to my body for the sake and pleasure of Allah alone. We Muslims need to unite as one! Become a solid stone as one!!! ;D :D
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HisServant
10-05-2018, 10:32 PM
^ Ameen! For me, it is the perfect path to peace. Alhamdulilah :-)
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Eric H
10-06-2018, 10:57 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Raymann;

Maybe start another thread, 'Is America the country of peace?'

In the spirit of praying for justice for al people;
Eric
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anatolian
10-06-2018, 11:52 AM
21:107. And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds
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Raymann
10-06-2018, 03:44 PM
Here is the deal.
The man is an Islamic IMAM.
Many consider him a radical.
He is actually in jail for promoting ISIS
He considers the ones who don't agree with his Islamic way "not real muslims"
Here is one of the many videos available in youtube about him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=WNSbkWVSDpM

So here are the questions to you Muslims:
Are his views align with Islam?
He justifies the actions of terrorists as based in the Quran.
At about 00:02:54 of the video he said:
In chapter 8 verse 60 (of the Quran) he (the prophet-pbuh) said prepare as much as you can steeds of warto terrorize the enemy, so terrorizing the enemy is in fact part of Islam.
If I was to believe in all he said I would conclude that Islam indeed is a violent religion.
As Muslims what is your take?
Please explain to the non-Muslims where is he wrong, if he is?
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xboxisdead
10-06-2018, 04:19 PM
I think raymann is in a mission to get the lowest reputation in human history!! :D ;D ;D ;D :haha::haha::lol::giggling::giggling:
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Eric H
10-06-2018, 04:26 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Raymann,

Originally Posted by Raymann
In chapter 8 verse 60 (of the Quran) he (the prophet-pbuh) said prepare as much as you can steeds of warto terrorize the enemy, so terrorizing the enemy is in fact part of Islam.
The interviewer in your video was deaf, she could not hear the imam describe terrorism as the blanket bombing of Afghanistan and Iraq by America. All she kept doing was going back to the execution of Foley, and I agree with her that this was wrong. But to me the greater crime was the bombing of Afghanistan and Iraq; this was the greater act of terrorising an enemy.

I have to say I only watched the first five minutes. America has bombed and fought in more countries than any other since WW2, I recently heard about the blanket bombing of Korea and Vietnam. I cannot believe that you turn a blind eye to your own country, yet criticize others for lesser crimes. Please be careful when making blanket judgements about 1.6 billion people.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
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azc
10-06-2018, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by Raymann
Here is the deal.
The man is an Islamic IMAM.
Many consider him a radical.
He is actually in jail for promoting ISIS
He considers the ones who don't agree with his Islamic way "not real muslims"
Here is one of the many videos available in youtube about him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=WNSbkWVSDpM

So here are the questions to you Muslims:
Are his views align with Islam?
He justifies the actions of terrorists as based in the Quran.
At about 00:02:54 of the video he said:
In chapter 8 verse 60 (of the Quran) he (the prophet-pbuh) said prepare as much as you can steeds of warto terrorize the enemy, so terrorizing the enemy is in fact part of Islam.
If I was to believe in all he said I would conclude that Islam indeed is a violent religion.
As Muslims what is your take?
Please explain to the non-Muslims where is he wrong, if he is?
Here nobody supports any terrorist group which misinterprete Quranic verses to justify them killing people.

Now see what the verses command:

Quran 8:59-60 –

“And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy.”

The above passage, is a historical verse which gave Muslims permission to fight the enemy, which was hostile to the Muslim community. Their goal was to exterminate, kill all Muslims. All one needs to do is read the verse that proceeds. The next verse (Quran 8:61), Allah orders Muslims that if the enemy were to ‘incline to peace’, then Muslims have incline to peace as-well. But, if the enemy does not want peace, then Allah gives Muslims to engage the enemy until there is no more persecution against Muslims. Let’s Read 8:61,

8:61And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.

Commentary on 8:61

Tafsir Ibn Kathir

“The Command to Facilitate Peace when the Enemy seeks a Peaceful Resolution
Allah says, if you fear betrayal from a clan of people, then sever the peace treaty with them, so that you both are on equal terms. If they continue being hostile and opposing you, then fight them, (But if they incline), and seek, (to peace), if they resort to reconciliation, and seek a treaty of non-hostility, (you also incline to it), and accept offers of peace from them. This is why when the pagans inclined to peace in the year of Hudaybiyah and sought cessation of hostilities for nine years, between them and the Messenger of Allah he accepted this from them, as well as, accepting other terms of peace they brought forth. `Abdullah bin Al-Imam Ahmad recorded that `Ali bin Abi Talib said that the Messenger of Allah said, (There will be disputes after me, so if you have a way to end them in peace, then do so.) Allah said next,
(and trust in Allah. ) Allah says, conduct a peace treaty with those who incline to peace, and trust in Allah. Verily, Allah will suffice for you and aid you even if they resort to peace as a trick, so that they gather and reorganize their forces…”

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Raymann,



The interviewer in your video was deaf, she could not hear the imam describe terrorism as the blanket bombing of Afghanistan and Iraq by America. All she kept doing was going back to the execution of Foley, and I agree with her that this was wrong. But to me the greater crime was the bombing of Afghanistan and Iraq; this was the greater act of terrorising an enemy.

I have to say I only watched the first five minutes. America has bombed and fought in more countries than any other since WW2, I recently heard about the blanket bombing of Korea and Vietnam. I cannot believe that you turn a blind eye to your own country, yet criticize others for lesser crimes. Please be careful when making blanket judgements about 1.6 billion people.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.


Eric
Thanks..!

May God be pleased with you.
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Eric H
10-06-2018, 08:23 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Raymann,

Originally Posted by Raymann
I just question the reason why so many groups around the world (all under the flag of Islam) feel the urge to terrorize the west as their primary goal.
I said primary goal because the violence also happens between these groups themselves (see Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc).
9/11 was wrong, but the American response to 9/11 was far worse. They held all of Afghanistan responsible for the action of a few terrorists. The invasion of Iraq with the shock and awe bombing must have terrified the ordinary Iraqi families living nearby. Two million refugees fled Iraq, many of them ended up in Syria, causing massive problems.

How will these refugees ever get justice? How will they get compensation for loss of property and for the death of family members?

If America had never bombed and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, then I am sure there would be more peace in the Middle East.

Originally Posted by Raymann
The topic here is not violence in general so here I'm only concern about violence coming under the flag of Islam.
If a few Muslims were the only violent people in this world; then you would be justified in starting this thread. Your prejudice seems to leave you blind to the greater violence committed by others in this world.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric
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AabiruSabeel
10-06-2018, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by Raymann
So here are the questions to you Muslims:
Are his views align with Islam?
He justifies the actions of terrorists as based in the Quran.
At about 00:02:54 of the video he said:
In chapter 8 verse 60 (of the Quran) he (the prophet-pbuh) said prepare as much as you can steeds of warto terrorize the enemy, so terrorizing the enemy is in fact part of Islam.
If I was to believe in all he said I would conclude that Islam indeed is a violent religion.
As Muslims what is your take?
Please explain to the non-Muslims where is he wrong, if he is?
Read in context.


Read more at http://spiritualperception.org/top-f...-of-the-quran/
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Raymann
10-06-2018, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
If the only violent people in this world were Muslims, then you would be justified in starting this thread. Your prejudice seems to leave you blind to the greater violence committed in this world.
Again, you're generalizing which is something I don't do.
I do not think Muslims are the only violent people in the world.
But I do believe that most terrorist groups today claim to be Muslims.
Name the equivalent of Al Qaeda, ISIS and Boko Haram in Christianity, Judaism or any other religion.

Originally Posted by Eric H
9/11 was wrong, but the American response to 9/11 was far worse. They held all of Afghanistan responsible for the action of a few terrorists.
The Taliban (the group in power in Afghanistan) hosted Al Qaeda (the group responsible for 9\11) so they were both attacked.
The people in Afghanistan (civilians) were not attacked. I was 100% behind their actions and considered it reasonable.

We have to face the problems by talking about it and not trying to silence it, which is what you're doing.
Are you saying we should just get used to get suicide attacks every week and not point fingers at the ones responsible?
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Raymann
10-07-2018, 04:19 AM
Originally Posted by azc
Here nobody supports any terrorist group which misinterpret Quranic verses to justify them killing people.
Very nice but ... is not true. There are many polls conducted that show in some cases up to 25% of the ones asked support (or at least justify) the actions of terrorists.
These people that support the actions of radicals claim they wouldn't participate in those actions but still it is a surprisingly high number of supporters.

Originally Posted by azc
The next verse (Quran 8:61), Allah orders Muslims that if the enemy were to ‘incline to peace’, then Muslims have incline to peace as-well. But, if the enemy does not want peace, then Allah gives Muslims to engage the enemy until there is no more persecution against Muslims. Let’s Read 8:61,
The Christians would show the other cheek but Islam prefers to take the more logical approach (an eye for an eye) and retaliate.
The problem is that radical groups think they're always at war against the west because of Afghanistan, Iraq, the Crusades or any other excuse.
They claim to follow strict Islamic law and that these laws justify what they doing, after all Israel is still there and Western forces still occupy Muslim territories.
So this is the dilema, is Islam responsible?
How would you condemn the actions of terrorists when they claim they're still under attack?
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AabiruSabeel
10-07-2018, 04:44 AM
Originally Posted by Raymann
The Taliban (the group in power in Afghanistan) hosted Al Qaeda (the group responsible for 9\11) so they were both attacked.
Taliban asked for evidence and were ready to hand over Osama, but Bush refused because all evidence pointed to insider job. He was intent on forcibly destroying Muslim nations.

Read for yourself https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...tan.terrorism5

The people in Afghanistan (civilians) were not attacked. I was 100% behind their actions and considered it reasonable.
Stats say something really different.



https://visual.ly/community/infograp...lian-death-war




https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/08/the-d...breakdown.html
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Raymann
10-07-2018, 07:36 AM
Afghanistan's deputy prime minister, Haji Abdul Kabir, told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US.
So you host an international terrorist group in your land and have the audacity to require evidence for one of the hundreds of terrorist attacks planned and executed by the organization.
No sir, no deal, hand them over and then we talk.

The war in Afghanistan was primarily done by Afghan forces on the ground (The northern alliance) and supported by US and allies by air. The allies would supply the Northern Alliance who in turn would fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda on the ground.
How can anyone seriously blame all the civilian casualties on the US? You have no shame.
So where is the brake down? I fail to see the details on your conveniently chosen graphic.
How many civilians killed by the Taliban?
How many civilians killed by the Northern Alliance?
How many civilians killed by Al Qaeda?
So you rounded them all up and blame ONLY THE US. Nice.
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Eric H
10-07-2018, 09:02 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Raymann,

Originally Posted by Raymann
The people in Afghanistan (civilians) were not attacked.
Whether you consider them attacked or not, they still died, see below....

During the war in Afghanistan (2001–present), over 31,000 civilian deaths due to war-related violence have been documented; 29,900 civilians have been wounded. Over 111,000 Afghans, including civilians, soldiers and militants, are estimated to have been killed in the conflict.
31.000 civilians dead, that is ten times the 9/11 death toll. If we are searching for true justice then we have to ask, how many of these 31,000 dead had anything to do with 9/11?

Originally Posted by Raymann
I was 100% behind their actions and considered it reasonable.
I can't understand how you can 100 % accept this and call it reasonable. I call it unjust, and the 100 % reason why I call it unjust is that out of those 31,000 dead civilians, at least half of them would have had nothing to do with 9/11.

How will the families of these 15,00 innocent dead civilians ever get justice?

Just consider that one countries freedom fighters are called terrorists by the occupying forces, France comes to mind during WW2.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
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Raymann
10-07-2018, 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
I can't understand how you can 100 % accept this and call it reasonable.
How easy is to second guess when you're sitting behind a computer with no decisions to make and nothing to lose either way.
What would have happened if Osama Bin Laden had not been stopped and by now the terror attacks included the destruction of the Coliseum in Rome, the Eiffel Tower in Paris, thousands of deaths on subway attacks, train derailments, buildings explosions, etc?
What would have happened if ISIS had not been stopped and by now the whole Middle East was controlled by a monstrous force with the most powerful army and air force only comparable with the US, Russia or Israel?
We would have been on the edge of WW3 and you would be begging the US to do something about it, wouldn't you?
So yes, I feel bad for the collateral damage but someone had to do it, someone had to stop Osama Bin Laden and someone had to stop ISIS and guess what?
That someone as usual was the US and the allies?
Reply

AabiruSabeel
10-07-2018, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Raymann
The Christians would show the other cheek
Was that a joke?


Originally Posted by Raymann
How can anyone seriously blame all the civilian casualties on the US? You have no shame.
So where is the brake down? I fail to see the details on your conveniently chosen graphic.
How many civilians killed by the Taliban?
How many civilians killed by the Northern Alliance?
How many civilians killed by Al Qaeda?
So you rounded them all up and blame ONLY THE US. Nice.
US started the war, so US is to blame, no matter whom they employ to kill on their behalf.

Look at that infographic once again, and you will see that US has the highest Civilian deaths ratio of 95.8%! For every militant they killed, they killed 23 civilians. Do you call that justice?

Originally Posted by Raymann
So you rounded them all up and blame ONLY THE US. Nice.
Don't you do the same when you blame Islam or all Muslims for the action of a few individuals?



Originally Posted by Raymann
What would have happened if Osama Bin Laden had not been stopped and by now the terror attacks included the destruction of the Coliseum in Rome, the Eiffel Tower in Paris, thousands of deaths on subway attacks, train derailments, buildings explosions, etc?
What would have happened if ISIS had not been stopped and by now the whole Middle East was controlled by a monstrous force with the most powerful army and air force only comparable with the US, Russia or Israel?
We would have been on the edge of WW3 and you would be begging the US to do something about it, wouldn't you?
So yes, I feel bad for the collateral damage but someone had to do it, someone had to stop Osama Bin Laden and someone had to stop ISIS and guess what?
That someone as usual was the US and the allies?
None of that would have happened had US and its allies not meddled in affairs of Muslim nations. Who created Osama and ISIS? Wasn't it the US itself? US supported Al Qaida against USSR, everyone knows that. And US destroyed Iraq which created a political vacuum giving rise to ISIS.

Tell me, was there ISIS before Iraq invasion? Was there Al Qaida before the cold war? You have to look at the cause instead of pointing fingers.


You have been banned for justifying violence against Muslims by playing the victim card.
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