Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

[CuriousonTruth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eUmis7uko0

- @eesathekiwi are you safe?

- About 40 died

- Perpetrator White Australian

- Apparantly he was livestreaming the whole thing while playing "Remove Kebab" song at background

[anatolian]

no comment..

[CuriousonTruth]

no comment..

Seriously though is the mod ok? Can someone confirm?

[eesa the kiwi]

Seriously though is the mod ok? Can someone confirm?

I'm fine wa lilahil hamd

Not my city. Pretty tragic though

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[Good brother]

I'm fine wa lilahil hamd

Not my city. Pretty tragic though

Alhamdulillah. May Allah have mercy on them. 49 killed and 50 injured. Mosques to be closed no Jum'aa. It's really a dark day in history of New Zealand. Authorities must have an active role in eliminating the tree of hate that's being fed by islamophobic terrorists all over the social media.

[ZeeshanParvez]

And guess what


New Zealand mosque shooting: Australian senator Fraser Anning blames terror attack on 'increasing Muslim presence'

[keiv]

If there's one positive thing to take from this, it's that they died in a state of worship.

[Eric H]

Peace be with you all,
This is a senseless and tragic event, we pray that something good can happen. Prayers for all the victims and families.
May you all be blessed in your struggles through life,
Eric

[DanEdge]

I love you guys (and gals). I can only hope that this tragedy inspires all kiwis to stand with their Muslim brothers and sisters. We are all Muslims today. [emoji26]

[AabiruSabeel]

Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'oon.
It is a very tragic and sad event. May Allah :swt: grant them martyrdom and heal the wounded soon. May Allah :swt: bestow sabr on their loved ones.

[alfaqir]

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi râji'oon

My condolences, may Allah ease the pain of the relatives and friends of the martyrs, and give fast recovery to the injured.

۞يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ اسْتَعِينُواْ بِالصَّبْرِ وَالصَّلاةِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ۞وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ لِمَنْ يُقْتَلُ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ أَمْوَاتٌ بَلْ أَحْيَاء وَلَكِن لاَّ تَشْعُرُونَ۞وَلَنَبْلُوَن َّكُمْ بِشَيْءٍ مِّنَ الْخَوْفِ وَالْجُوعِ وَنَقْصٍ مِّنَ الأَمْوَالِ وَالأنفُسِ وَالثَّمَرَاتِ وَبَشِّرِ الصَّابِرِينَ۞الَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَتْهُم مُّصِيبَةٌ قَالُواْ إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ۞أُوْلَئِكَ عَلَيْهِمْ صَلَوَاتٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَرَحْمَةٌ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُهْتَدُونَ۞

O you who have believed, seek help through patience and prayer. Indeed, Allah is with the patient.
And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah, "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.
And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,
Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah, and indeed to Him we will return."
Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

[Abz2000]

Am i allowed to upload a link to the video just so people realize how important it is for citizenry to excercise their God given right to bear arms, if people had not forgotten that only mad people and slaves were prevented from keeping weapons so that there would be no revolt or mutiny against the masters - it is highly likely that someone would have pulled out a handgun and immobilized the illegal shooter, someone in the office should also have had a pistol in an easily accessible locker. This video is proof of the fact that even if governments who take away peoples God given rights by giving false and empty assurances of security -overtaxed the populations which they administer in order to inefficiently hire more police, such an incident is unavoidable -if people do not stand up and demand to be treated with due respect.

Allah SWT said:

وَإِذَا كُنْتَ فِيهِمْ فَأَقَمْتَ لَهُمُ الصَّلٰوةَ فَلْتَقُمْ طَآئِفَةٌ مِّنْهُمْ مَّعَكَ وَلْيَأْخُذُوٓا أَسْلِحَتَهُمْ فَإِذَا سَجَدُوا فَلْيَكُونُوا مِنْ وَرَآئِكُمْ وَلْتَأْتِ طَآئِفَةٌ أُخْرٰى لَمْ يُصَلُّوا فَلْيُصَلُّوا مَعَكَ وَلْيَأْخُذُوا حِذْرَهُمْ وَأَسْلِحَتَهُمْ ۗ وَدَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْ تَغْفُلُونَ عَنْ أَسْلِحَتِكُمْ وَأَمْتِعَتِكُمْ فَيَمِيلُونَ عَلَيْكُمْ مَّيْلَةً وٰحِدَةً ۚ وَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ إِنْ كَانَ بِكُمْ أَذًى مِّنْ مَّطَرٍ أَوْ كُنْتُمْ مَّرْضٰىٓ أَنْ تَضَعُوٓا أَسْلِحَتَكُمْ ۖ وَخُذُو ا حِذْرَكُمْ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ أَعَدَّ لِلْكٰفِرِينَ عَذَابًا مُّهِينًا

"And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand [in prayer] with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be [in position] behind you and have the other group come forward which has not [yet] prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one [single] attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment."

(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 102)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com





It was narrated from Abu Musa (radi Allahu anhu) that Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "If one of you passes through our Masjid or our marketplace, with an arrow, let him hold it in his hand by its point, lest he harm one of the Muslims with it in some way." [#6665: The Book of Al-Birr: Sahih Muslim]

http://dailyhadith.adaptivesolutions...our-Arrows.htm

[Saira Khan]

إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ

This is very bad. These are the signs of the End of Times.
May Allah Subhanuhu ease the pain of the relatives and friends of the martyrs. Ameen

- - - Updated - - -

Peace be with you all,
This is a senseless and tragic event, we pray that something good can happen. Prayers for all the victims and families.
May you all be blessed in your struggles through life,
Eric

Ameen

[Silas]

Unfortunately, this outrageous attack illustrates an underlying problem in our societies.

Disgruntled, under-employed, entitled, and frustrated men who spend their time in Internet echo-chambers filled with radicals and morally-bankrupt people. These men are alienated and impressionable, can't find wives, and blame the "enemy", be it Muslims, immigrants, or even ordinary citizens.

This psycho was no different from those who drive trucks into schoolchildren. Their motivations might be different, but their impulses and ideology the same. Violence begets violence, and it is abhorrent in the eyes of God.

[Singularity]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mosque-sh...133524283.html

Mosque shooter a white nationalist seeking revenge
Associated Press KRISTEN GELINEAU,Associated Press 2 hours 8 minutes ago
SYDNEY (AP) — The gunman behind at least one of the mosque shootings in New Zealand that left 49 people dead on Friday tried to make a few things clear in the manifesto he left behind: He is a 28-year-old Australian white nationalist who hates immigrants. He was set off by attacks in Europe that were perpetrated by Muslims. He wanted revenge, and he wanted to create fear.

He also, quite clearly, wanted attention.

Though he claimed not to covet fame, the gunman — whose name was not immediately released by police — left behind a 74-page document posted on social media under the name Brenton Tarrant in which he said he hoped to survive the attack to better spread his ideas in the media.

He also livestreamed to the world in graphic detail his assault on the worshippers at Christchurch's Al Noor Mosque.

That rampage killed at least 41 people, while an attack on a second mosque in the city not long after killed several more. Police did not say whether the same person was responsible for both shootings.

PHOTOS: New Zealand mosque shootings »

While his manifesto and video were an obvious and contemptuous ploy for infamy, they do contain important clues for a public trying to understand why anyone would target dozens of innocent people who were simply spending an afternoon engaged in prayer.

There could be no more perplexing a setting for a mass slaughter than New Zealand, a nation so placid and so isolated from the mass shootings that plague the U.S. that even police officers rarely carry guns.

Yet the gunman himself highlighted New Zealand's remoteness as a reason he chose it. He wrote that an attack in New Zealand would show that no place on earth was safe and that even a country as far away as New Zealand is subject to mass immigration.

He said he grew up in a working-class Australian family, had a typical childhood and was a poor student. A woman who said she was a colleague of his when he worked as a personal trainer in the Australian city of Grafton said she was shocked by the allegations against him.

"I can't ... believe that somebody I've probably had daily dealings with and had shared conversations and interacted with would be able of something to this extreme," Tracey Gray told the Australian Broadcasting Corp.

Beyond his white nationalistic ideals, he also considers himself an environmentalist and a fascist who believes China is the nation that most aligns with his political and social values. He has contempt for the wealthiest 1 percent. And he singled out American conservative commentator Candace Owens as the person who had influenced him the most.

In a tweet, Owens responded by saying that if the media portrayed her as the inspiration for the attack, it had better hire lawyers.

Throughout the manifesto, the theme he returns to most often is conflict between people of European descent and Muslims, often framing it in terms of the Crusades.

He wrote that the episode that pushed him toward violence took place in 2017 while he was touring through Western Europe. That was when an Uzbek man drove a truck into a crowd of people in Stockholm, killing five. The Australian was particularly enraged by the death of an 11-year-old Swedish girl in the attack.

He said his desire for violence grew when he arrived in France, where he became enraged by the sight of immigrants in the cities and towns he visited.

And so he began to plot his attack. Three months ago, he started planning to target Christchurch. He claimed not to be a direct member of any organization or group, though he said he has donated to many nationalist groups. He also claimed he contacted an anti-immigration group called the reborn Knights Templar and got the blessing of Anders Breivik for the attack.

Breivik is a right-wing Norwegian extremist who killed 77 people in Oslo and a nearby island in 2011. Breivik's lawyer Oeystein Storrvik told Norway's VG newspaper that his client, who is in prison, has "very limited contacts with the surrounding world, so it seems very unlikely that he has had contact" with the New Zealand gunman.

The gunman had a long wish list for what he hoped the attack would achieve. He hoped it would reduce immigration by intimidating immigrants. He hoped to drive a wedge between NATO and the Turkish people. He hoped to further polarize and destabilize the West. And he hoped to create more conflict over gun laws in the U.S., thus leading to a civil war that would ultimately result in a separation of races.

Though he claimed not to be a Nazi, in the video he livestreamed of the shooting the number 14 is seen on his rifle. That may be a reference to the "14 Words," a white supremacist slogan attributed in part to Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf," according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. He also used the symbol of the Schwarze Sonne, or black sun, which "has become synonymous with myriad far-right groups who traffic in neo-Nazi," according to the center.

His victims, he wrote, were chosen because he saw them as invaders who would replace the white race. He predicted he would feel no remorse for their deaths. And in the video he livestreamed of his shooting, no remorse can be seen or heard. Instead, he simply says: "Let's get this party started."

Then he picks up his gun, storms into the mosque, and cuts down one innocent life after another.

When it is over, he climbs back into his car, where he has left his music playing — the song "Fire" by the English rock band The Crazy World of Arthur Brown. And right after the singer bellows, "I am the god of hellfire!" the gunman drives away.

[CuriousonTruth]

http://www.anews.com.tr/world/2019/0...isrpozqqxqinw0

"We are coming for Constantinople and we will destroy every mosque and minaret in the city. The Hagia Sophia will be free of minarets and Constantinople will be rightfully christian [sic] owned once more," 28-year-old Australian citizen Brenton Tarrant -- the mosque attacker in New Zealand -- said in a post shared on his social media account. In the text, Tarrant also threatens to kill all Turks living on the European side of Turkey and elsewhere in Europe.

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is also attacked in the manifesto which argues that he should be killed while on a visit to the Turkish community in Europe, which the assailant called "his ethnic soldiers currently occupying Europe" in the hate-filled text.
The text also says that Erdoğan's death will serve to drive a wedge "between the Turk invaders currently occupying our lands and the ethnic European people simultaneously weakening Turkeys [sic] hold on the region, removing a prime enemy of Russia and destabilizing and fracturing NATO."

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately, this outrageous attack illustrates an underlying problem in our societies.

Disgruntled, under-employed, entitled, and frustrated men who spend their time in Internet echo-chambers filled with radicals and morally-bankrupt people. These men are alienated and impressionable, can't find wives, and blame the "enemy", be it Muslims, immigrants, or even ordinary citizens.

This psycho was no different from those who drive trucks into schoolchildren. Their motivations might be different, but their impulses and ideology the same. Violence begets violence, and it is abhorrent in the eyes of God.

I doubt it. There are many educated, unemployed people everywhere, all of them don't go around playing Crusader everywhere.

As someone who has spent time on WN websites like T.O.O and even the less intelligent (but more popular) "alt-right" movement, the terminologies or the rhetoric is nothing new to me. "Remove Kebab", "Deus Vult", "Re-taking Constantinople", "Nuke Mekkah" are all very well known rhetorics which were used by the person in question.

- - - Updated - - -

Fox News closed the comment section under their youtube video. I think we can imagine what kinds of comments were there. It wouldn't be crazy to suggest that the attack has support from a large chunk (if not majority) of American, European, English, Australians.

[Silas]

http://www.anews.com.tr/world/2019/0...isrpozqqxqinw0

"We are coming for Constantinople and we will destroy every mosque and minaret in the city. The Hagia Sophia will be free of minarets and Constantinople will be rightfully christian [sic] owned once more," 28-year-old Australian citizen Brenton Tarrant -- the mosque attacker in New Zealand -- said in a post shared on his social media account. In the text, Tarrant also threatens to kill all Turks living on the European side of Turkey and elsewhere in Europe.


President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is also attacked in the manifesto which argues that he should be killed while on a visit to the Turkish community in Europe, which the assailant called "his ethnic soldiers currently occupying Europe" in the hate-filled text.
The text also says that Erdoğan's death will serve to drive a wedge "between the Turk invaders currently occupying our lands and the ethnic European people simultaneously weakening Turkeys [sic] hold on the region, removing a prime enemy of Russia and destabilizing and fracturing NATO."

- - - Updated - - -


I doubt it. There are many educated, unemployed people everywhere, all of them don't go around playing Crusader everywhere.

As someone who has spent time on WN websites like T.O.O and even the less intelligent (but more popular) "alt-right" movement, the terminologies or the rhetoric is nothing new to me. "Remove Kebab", "Deus Vult", "Re-taking Constantinople", "Nuke Mekkah" are all very well known rhetorics which were used by the person in question.

well just as not every frustrated, underemployed Muslim goes out and plays Jihadist

just as the "Alt-Right" has its subculture of slogans, violent expressions, memes, etc. , just as the violent Jihadists have theirs. They lure young men with this stuff.

[CuriousonTruth]

Apparent in his gun he wrote the following:

Skanderbeg
Charles Martel
Vienna 1683
Anton Peterson
Bisonette

- - - Updated - - -

well just as not every frustrated, underemployed Muslim goes out and plays Jihadist

just as the "Alt-Right" has its subculture of slogans, violent expressions, memes, etc. , just as the violent Jihadists have theirs. They lure young men with this stuff.

My point is it has nothing to do with employment status. Kevin Macdonald was a professor in university and I think David Duke was in US congress (?)

It has completely to do with White supremacy and the belief that those people have that their race is superior because of the last 200 years. This is the core issue.

As for "jihadists" most of that is due to Western invasion, which is a completely different discourse.

[alfaqir]

Am i allowed to upload a link to the video just so people realize how important it is for citizenry to excercise their God given right to bear arms, if people had not forgotten that only mad people and slaves were prevented from keeping weapons so that there would be no revolt or mutiny against the masters - it is highly likely that someone would have pulled out a handgun and immobilized the illegal shooter, someone in the office should also have had a pistol in an easily accessible locker. This video is proof of the fact that even if governments who take away peoples God given rights by giving false and empty assurances of security -overtaxed the populations which they administer in order to inefficiently hire more police, such an incident is unavoidable -if people do not stand up and demand to be treated with due respect.

I have no authority in the matter, but i would like to ask you NOT to post it, or to the mods NOT to allow it. Show some respect to the victims and their families and don't assist this terrorist's propaganda video. I personally favor very strict gun control, but i don't think that is the issue now, rather the threat that the alt-right islamophobes are an increasing physical threat to us and this attack raises the issue that our mosques in the non-muslim countries need higher security, similarly how synagogues usually have already, police presence, armed security guards, metal detectors... i wonder will we also need these?

@CuriousonTruth

It wouldn't be crazy to suggest that the attack has support from a large chunk (if not majority) of American, European, English, Australians.

I don't say if it is a large chunk or a majority as it varies by country, but no doubt virulent muslim hating has a large platform and even entered the mainstream, so i have no doubt many of them condone it. (I don't even dare to look at comments in my country where anti-muslim sentiments are probably the highest in Europe... i have no stomach for it)

[CuriousonTruth]

@CuriousonTruth



I don't say if it is a large chunk or a majority as it varies by country, but no doubt virulent muslim hating has a large platform and even entered the mainstream, so i have no doubt many of them condone it. (I don't even dare to look at comments in my country where anti-muslim sentiments are probably the highest in Europe... i have no stomach for it)

You live in Poland?

[Silas]

Apparent in his gun he wrote the following:

Skanderbeg
Charles Martel
Vienna 1683
Anton Peterson
Bisonette

- - - Updated - - -


My point is it has nothing to do with employment status. Kevin Macdonald was a professor in university and I think David Duke was in US congress (?)

It has completely to do with White supremacy and the belief that those people have that their race is superior because of the last 200 years. This is the core issue.

As for "jihadists" most of that is due to Western invasion, which is a completely different discourse.

and you think these guys are not motivated by what they view as "Middle-Eastern Invasion"?

Nevertheless, "Jihadists" (as a general term) also target other Muslims whom they view as Takfir, heretics, whatever. It didn't take the presence of westerners to prevent Muslims from different sects and tribes from killing each other.

(Timothy McVeigh killed hundreds of white people when he bombed the Federal Building in Oklahoma).

The common thread here is people who are looking to blame everything on the "other", and to take out their frustrations in violent ways. Instead of looking for social, political, or religious change and reform, they try to gt famous by blowing themselves and others up, shooting up mosques or churches, etc.

There is no moral high-ground here. We are all flawed human beings with the capacity for evil if we lose sight of God and our moral foundations.

- - - Updated - - -

You live in Poland?

It is crazy to suggest a large portion, or a majority, of people in the west condone the attacks. Aside from some closet crazy people, the attacks have been almost universally condemned, and many are sickened by the whole thing.

Are westerners to assume that a majority of Muslims condone 911 or driving trucks into crowds of innocent people? I certainly don't assume that, and I haven't met a Muslim outside of the Internet who has anything but disgust for such things.

[Abz2000]

What's more concerning is that the virulent Muslim hating began to be pushed heavily by corrupt crooks in governments which excercise control in the u.n and by the leaders of mass media after the staged false flag of 9/11, and that the dumbest of the masses are simply following their cues.
The solutions are not likely to come from the same people - especially since we know that they've been indoctrinating and training the soldiers under their guardianship to commit such crimes, it is like watching a repeat of the kevin sites fallujah mosque massacres by american soldiers absent the expletives.

Here's the fallujah incident heavily cut:

[CuriousonTruth]

and you think these guys are not motivated by what they view as "Middle-Eastern Invasion"?

Nevertheless, "Jihadists" (as a general term) also target other Muslims whom they view as Takfir, heretics, whatever. It didn't take the presence of westerners to prevent Muslims from different sects and tribes from killing each other.

(Timothy McVeigh killed hundreds of white people when he bombed the Federal Building in Oklahoma).

The common thread here is people who are looking to blame everything on the "other", and to take out their frustrations in violent ways. Instead of looking for social, political, or religious change and reform, they try to gt famous by blowing themselves and others up, shooting up mosques or churches, etc.

There is no moral high-ground here. We are all flawed human beings with the capacity for evil if we lose sight of God and our moral foundations.

Yes and you really think immigration is same as being tortured in Bagram or losing family via bombing in was you had no part in? Kebab stalls in Paris is same as military bases in Afghanistan?

Even the anti-shia sentiment is politically driven, before the Syrian war Iran (and Ahmedinejad) were the most popular country across the Middle East. It was after the Syrian war that the public sentiment changed against shias.

- - - Updated - - -

It is crazy to suggest a large portion, or a majority, of people in the west condone the attacks. Aside from some closet crazy people, the attacks have been almost universally condemned, and many are sickened by the whole thing.

Are westerners to assume that a majority of Muslims condone 911 or driving trucks into crowds of innocent people? I certainly don't assume that, and I haven't met a Muslim outside of the Internet who has anything but disgust for such things.

Why would it be? That's all I see from opinions of Western people (and also hindus). I mean all you need to do is to scroll down the comments in "old right-wing" channel like PragerU or the newer "punk" alt-right channels like RedIce TV.

It's not only muslims though, just like Constantinople there are also those who want to "re-conquer" South Africa and Rhodesia.

- - - Updated - - -

What's more concerning is that the virulent Muslim hating began to be pushed heavily by corrupt crooks in governments which excercise control in the u.n and by the leaders of mass media after the staged false flag of 9/11, and that the dumbest of the masses are simply following their cues.
The solutions are not likely to come from the same people - especially since we know that they've been indoctrinating and training tteir soldiers to commit such crimes, it is like watching a repeat of the kevin sites fallujah mosque massacres by american soldiers absent the expletives.

I am surprised by this. European anti-islam sentiment is far older than 9/11.

There's a reason Curzon said, "We can never allow a caliphate or any political establishment of Islam to rise again."

[Silas]

Yes and you really think immigration is same as being tortured in Bagram or losing family via bombing in was you had no part in? Kebab stalls in Paris is same as military bases in Afghanistan?

Even the anti-shia sentiment is politically driven, before the Syrian war Iran (and Ahmedinejad) were the most popular country across the Middle East. It was after the Syrian war that the public sentiment changed against shias.

- - - Updated - - -


Why would it be? That's all I see from opinions of Western people (and also hindus). I mean all you need to do is to scroll down the comments in "old right-wing" channel like PragerU or the newer "punk" alt-right channels like RedIce TV.

It's not only muslims though, just like Constantinople there are also those who want to "re-conquer" South Africa and Rhodesia.

As I have pointed out many times before, many Americans, myself included, want the US out of the Middle-East entirely. We want the bases closed. We don't want our government to send 40 billion in military aid to Israel every year. I would say 65-75% of Americans hold this view. Did a little girl who was run over by a jihadist in Sweden have anything to do with American military actions in the Middle-East? Sweden isn't even involved with that.

ISIS made the direct claim via a press release that this has nothing to with imperialism or western presence in Muslim lands. ISIS came right out and said even if every western government were to vacate Muslim lands, their fighters would go overseas and kill westerners --simply because they are infidels. Not even religious colonization: outright genocide.

No excuse can be made for these people, just as no excuse can be made for the evil guy who gunned down Muslims in New Zealand.

[space]

I hope that dirty scumbag who had shot those innocent mosque visitors and his entire supporters behind the computer screen will face the sudden frighten and merciless face of death, die violently and will burn in hell for eternity, and I truly hope they all die without knowing the truth of Islam and accepting it so that they all can burn in hell for eternity! May ALLAH not make them believers so that they all burn in hell for eternity. My opinion

[alfaqir]

You live in Poland?

No, but you guessed well the geographic region. (bölgeyi iyi tahmin ettin, ben de ortadoğu Avrupa'da yaşıyorum, ama polonya'da değil, macaristan'da)

What is creepy that the "Great Replacement" conspiracy that this article https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47579243 mentions as an online conspiracy is basicly what the official government propaganda tells here for years by now on all media channels....

[Abz2000]

I have no authority in the matter, but i would like to ask you NOT to post it, or to the mods NOT to allow it. Show some respect to the victims and their families and don't assist this terrorist's propaganda video. I personally favor very strict gun control, but i don't think that is the issue now, rather the threat that the alt-right islamophobes are an increasing physical threat to us and this attack raises the issue that our mosques in the non-muslim countries need higher security, similarly how synagogues usually have already, police presence, armed security guards, metal detectors... i wonder will we also need these?

Allah SWT said:

وَاتَّخَذُوا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ ءَالِهَةً لَّعَلَّهُمْ يُنْصَرُونَ
"But they have taken besides Allah [false] deities that perhaps they would be helped."
(QS. Yaseen 36: Verse 74)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com


Allah SWT said:

لَا يَسْتَطِيعُونَ نَصْرَهُمْ وَهُمْ لَهُمْ جُنْدٌ مُّحْضَرُونَ
"They are not able to help them, and they [themselves] are for them soldiers in attendance."
(QS. Yaseen 36: Verse 75)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

Allah SWT said:

فَلَا يَحْزُنْكَ قَوْلُهُمْ ۘ إِنَّا نَعْلَمُ مَا يُسِرُّونَ وَمَا يُعْلِنُونَ
"So let not their speech grieve you. Indeed, We know what they conceal and what they declare."
(QS. Yaseen 36: Verse 76)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com



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Here's some of the stupid advice coming from the new zealand government:

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Attachment 6645

[azc]

Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'oon.

[alfaqir]

I am surprised by this. European anti-islam sentiment is far older than 9/11.

There's a reason Curzon said, "We can never allow a caliphate or any political establishment of Islam to rise again."

IMO don't mix here the old imperialist and orientalist anti-islamic traditions, sure those existed and contribute to their ideological tradition, but now it is on a different popular level and nature. Similarly there were thousand + years of anti-Jewish sentiments in Europe before the Holocaust, but still it was a totally "updated" anti-semitism 2.0. what Nazis represented. Now we are the new Jews... Regarding the anti-muslim feelings i think other muslims in Europe will agree that things changed a lot in the last years after 9/11 and even more so after the refugee crisis, a kind of hatred that you could not hear and see in the 90s, not in this ammount and not in this political level.

[Abz2000]

Here's some discussion on footage of incidents which are being waged in peoples' name - i believe that people have a right to know the details of such newsworthy pieces which affect them directly, and if they can't cope with seeing such bloodshed, they should prevent their governments from commiting it and then attempting to justify it to the masses by falsely white washing and spinning it.

That individual appeared to have military training....






The individual who commited the shooting was simply copying george bush whilst parroting donald trump:




Three years ago, President Trump called for a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.” Over time, this idea, in his words, “morphed into” various other policies that he calls “extreme vetting.” Despite challenges, courts have largely allowed these policies to take effect, and the results are now evident: The president is achieving his stated aim of slashing entries of Muslims into the United States.

A new analysis from the Cato Institute — based on data from the State Department — makes the facts clear. On refugee policy — the area where the president has the most discretion to enact his vision — his administration has almost completely shut out Muslims.

From 2016 to 2018, the government cut admissions for Muslim refugees — which Trump has called a “Trojan horse” designed to bring down America — by 91 percent. In 2016, the government accepted nearly 40,000 Muslim refugees around the world, compared with just 3,000 in 2018. And while refugee admissions overall have plummeted, the Muslim share dropped from 45 percent to 15 percent, meaning it’s fallen at an even faster rate.


----



The servants of iblees are working in tandem.

[space]

I curse him

[xboxisdead]

May Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) destroy all these soldiers who have committed these crimes in this world before akhira by the hands of their womenfolk and children and society, ameen! I would love to see these men return back to their home country where the government stabs them on their back, their wives cheats on them take all their wealth away from these men, their children want nothing to do with their fathers, their forced to pay unfair amount of child support and alimony which will put them in prison to be beaten and abused there or thrown in the street, their reputation is ruined either by their womenfolk or by society where they will never be able to stand in their own feets and they live the rest of their lives in depression and misery until death takes them.

My biggest wish is they go to prison for their crimes but having psychological torture and torment and suffering and they feel agonizing pain every single day of their lives where they are imprisoned in their minds is even trillion times better!

[Abz2000]

[space]

https://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...ml#post3006778

[CuriousonTruth]

No, but you guessed well the geographic region. (bölgeyi iyi tahmin ettin, ben de ortadoğu Avrupa'da yaşıyorum, ama polonya'da değil, macaristan'da)

What is creepy that the "Great Replacement" conspiracy that this article https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47579243 mentions as an online conspiracy is basicly what the official government propaganda tells here for years by now on all media channels....

Funny thing is that the Kalergi plan- the man whose name is attributed to it was a white supremacist himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o3pkoZyYRA

[سيف الله]

Salaam

I feel numb. Background.

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Some of the victims.

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A survivor.

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Reaction.

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Whatever differences I have with Jeremys Corbyns politics I always appreciate his decency.

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Publics reaction.

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Muslim reaction.

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Your condolences are not needed at this time if ever, so shameless.

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The future?

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[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

This of course is very tragic for the believers who died, and of course we should pray for them. And indeed my own thoughts and prayers are with them and their loved ones.

That said, I want to remind Muslims to keep in mind that we are a people of moderation and sense and sensibility. We must take this tragic event as the Time willed for Allah to call believers' souls to His Home and to Him. These believers died as martyrs for they died in the House of God with the intent to worship God. Allah (God) beautified their deaths for them and so we must now beautify our own conduct to honor them.

We must not blame Western non-Muslims, because to suggest that all Western non-Muslims are somehow responsible for or evil or desired this tragedy is an untrue and offensive suggestion. And we must not be angry because that is the command of Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

We must accept in grace the good wishes of the non-Muslims who are showing solidarity with us. We would wish the same had it been the other way around.

More importantly, let's remember that we are all as human beings one when it comes to standing against evil, be it anywhere, be it committed by anyone. We do not tragedies define us or defy our good sense.

إِنَّا للهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ ("We belong to Allah and to Allah we shall return.")

[Abz2000]

And we should not go around bombing children and other innocents in afghanistan, iraq, libya, syria, egypt, by conducting false flag attacks and then blaming them on people innocent of the crimes, and we should especially not attempt to use such false flags as an excuse and false justification for murdering millions of people who do not claim to live in democracies and do not claim that they are responsible for the unjust legislation that their puppet leaders pass through in happily tax paid palaces.So let's not be so lame, let us take responsibility and stop trolling and attempting to use emotional diatribes absent of clear thinking.

[space]

https://twitter.com/AtzTheWolf/statu...mosques-2.html

This.

[CuriousonTruth]

We must not blame Western non-Muslims, because to suggest that all Western non-Muslims are somehow responsible for or evil or desired this tragedy is an untrue and offensive suggestion.

I very strongly disagree. It is completely their doing, anyone who has followe Occidental politics wouldn't be even remotely surprised by this.

I suggest you go and look up PragerU, Paul joseph Watson, SquattingSlavTV, RedIce TV, Fox, etc they have exactly similar talking points and slogans/memes as the guy did. Only difference is they keep it in their speech and not action. However, the shooter simply applied what is being preached into practice.

[SintoDinto]

inalillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Like to share,

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New Zealand PM comforts the survivors.

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A very decent man

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Muslims from all over the world pray for the victims.

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Hang in there bro.

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Security being stepped up.

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Blurb

This needed several takes as I just couldn't bring myself to do a video on it, but after several requests and several stories no one else covered I felt it was needed. After seeing the footage I was shaken to my core.

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[Singularity]

https://thehill.com/media/434375-was...er-nz-shooting

Washington Post condemns Trump rhetoric after New Zealand shooting
BY RACHEL FRAZIN - 03/16/19 10:41 AM EDT 504
Man goes viral after standing outside his local mosque to 'keep watch' while Muslim worshippers pray

Washington Post condemns Trump rhetoric after New Zealand shooting
© Twitter
The Washington Post's editorial board condemned President Trump's rhetoric on Friday following a mass shooting at two New Zealand mosques earlier that day.

The Post's editorial board said it did not blame Trump for the massacre, but said the suspected shooter's "nativist rhetoric" was akin to Trump's.

"Trump is not to blame for the tragedy, despite his own history of Islamophobic statements and a travel ban that targets predominantly Muslim nations," the Post editorial board wrote Friday.


"Still, he should go further than he has; for starters, by condemning the alleged killer, whose nativist rhetoric — he called immigrants 'invaders,' attacked 'mass immigration' and wrote that he hoped to 'directly reduce immigration rates' — overlaps with the president’s own," the board added.

The board cited Trump's remarks Friday referring to an "invasion" of immigrants to justify his decision to declare a national emergency in order to secure funds for his proposed U.S.–Mexico border wall.

The Post's board called on Trump to reject the suspected shooter's reported anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim views, urging him to recognize white nationalism as a problem.

"Trump, who could not bring himself to criticize the white nationalists in Charlottesville who chanted that minorities (Jews, in that case) would 'not replace us,' on Friday said he doesn’t regard white nationalism as a problem," they wrote. "That’s the wrong message. Instead, he ought to state unambiguously that the New Zealand suspect’s 'replacement' ideology is an unacceptable trope in civilized discourse."

Trump, on Friday, said he doesn’t see a rise in white nationalism, telling reporters in the Oval Office, “I don't really, I think it’s a small group of people that have very, very serious problems.”

The suspected shooter wrote in a manifesto posted online before the shooting that he supported Trump "as a symbol of renewed white identity."

Trump condemned the Friday attack as a "horrible massacre" and offered U.S. aid to New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

"My warmest sympathy and best wishes goes out to the people of New Zealand after the horrible massacre in the Mosques," he tweeted."49 innocent people have so senselessly died, with so many more seriously injured. The U.S. stands by New Zealand for anything we can do. God bless all!"


A leader Muslim-American group Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) similarly called on Trump to denounce the suspected shooter's ideology Friday.

"During your presidency and during your election campaign, Islamophobia took a sharp rise and attacks on innocent Muslims, innocent immigrants and mosques have skyrocketed," CAIR national executive director Nihad Awad said during a press conference.

"We hold you responsible for this growing anti-Muslim sentiment in the country and in Europe, but also we do not excuse those terrorist attackers against minorities at home and abroad," he added.

Friday's massacre has drawn heightened scrutiny toward political leaders' rhetoric, including Trump, who some have accused of empowering extremist views and stoking Islamophobia.

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[AbdurRahman.]

All this fustration and blaming won't make us any safer guys, only Allah can help us or else we're sitting ducks

Make lots of dua to stay safe and let's increase our good deeds InshAllah

[ardianto]

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji’oon. May Allah gives beautiful place in jannah for the victims.

I'm very angry, but I don't want revenge. I just want this tragedy to be a reminder for everyone that violence is not the right way to solve problems.

----------------------

There were six Indonesians in masjid An-Noor, and two other in masjid Linwood. One who was in masjid An-noor, Mr Lilik Abdul Hamid, died in this tragedy. While two other who were in masjid Linwood, a father and his little boy, being shot, but now in stable condition.

[Abz2000]

Trump is a showbiz actor who understands opinion polls and target audiences to an extent, and the fact that nazi germany has been studied quite thoroughly and that he chose redneck caps and unintelligent white trash as his core physical support base is a sign that these dupes were going to be used for evil tasks and numbers support for actions that couldn't easily have been explained away under government or general mass media narratives. These Tramps are easy patsies that get explained away and dismissed quite easily, and a similar method was used by germany in terms of bigotry - although it is clear that the rationale for attacking unscrupulous and usurious jews is not the same as attacking devout Muslims - indicating that these white trash are a little more dangerous than the other white trash in that the reliance on bigotry is amplified.


The courting of white trash and pushing of unintelligent Islamophobia and blind prejudice reliant on disinformation is also an indication of the awareness of a coming financial crisis caused by usurers - but which is to be blamed on an unrelated group,
The recent invasions and destabilizations of Muslim majority countries and the engineered refugee crises and blame games are also signs of things to come - financial and political - since it is Trump's carefully chosen physical support base that will be the first to feel the pinch and come out onto the streets......

Arm up or leave and buy cheap farmland while the going's good.

[Abz2000]

This guy appears to have been aware that Islam is prevailing over pagan europe just as it did after Jesus, he appears to have seen the natural and fluid way in which Islam blossoms just as bush and trump have done, the major flaw being that he -just like trump and the dajjal media- portrays it in an "immigrant" "refugee" racial light despite knowing that Islam trandcends race - the reason for this is obvious: keeping the narrative in the fixed race-labelled bigot sphere whilst avoiding the baggage that comes with the intellectual arguments.

[AbdurRahman.]

Why is TRT explaining the main points of this guys evil manifesto with no refutation of it other than a simple 'he's wrong, diversity is strength'?

They have another similar video too with no refutation at all

This sick reasoning could influence others to attack or to sympathise with this nutcase

It seems Russia is getting Turkey to do this; Turkey is good chums with Russia now and putin shares a similar 'white genocide' paranoia too

Muslims have truly sold out to kuffar big time

[anatolian]

I agree that showing this sick video of that beast may cause other sick minded people to sympathize his idea and action. We should not participate in terrorist mentality. This may also cause some angry people to take “revenge”. In most cases those revenges are taken from sone other innocent people but not from the real criminals.

[Abz2000]

The thing is that it's now essential to comprehend the reasoning of the criminal killer and how he got to such a stage - this works both ways just as the shooting video does - and it works more for the side of truth than it does for falsehood since it gives us a window into the way in which the narratives of these individuals are formed and makes it easier to unravel the propaganda.
The shooting video itself is more useful despite its horror since it gives a picture of what is happening to millions of people around the globe at the hands of the usurer controlled criminal secular governments. It also humanizes and gives faces to all the numbers which are otherwise rolled off reporters' tongues like a company statistics report - bearìng in mind that most people have humanity in them and that the Tramps are in the minority.
The sheet is narrow for the Tramps, and covering their feet means exposing their heads and vice versa.

I see no big deal in reporters not bothering with too much refutation since their job is to give us news and not to spin it, i certainly wouldn't like them to get used to too much opinionation since the boot will be on the other foot sometimes........and if we believe that truth and justice are on the side of Islam, we can assure ourselves that source material is better than a secular media slant.

Compare his stupid and false comparisons with the sound reasoning of Shaykh Usaama and any intelligent thinking mind will be able to discern.




Also bear in mind that the individual is attempting to get into the slipstream of mujahideen fee sabeel Allah and is working to undo the retaliations that are likely to ensue from the illegal invasions of Muslim majority middle-eastern countries, this can be seen from the way in which he falsely equates people praying in a mosque with "middle east invaders".

Wa tilka al ayyam nudaawiluhaa bayna an-naas.


For you can do nothing against the just truth -but FOR the just truth.

[Silas]

Isn't Prager a Jewish Neocon?

Likewise, Paul Joseph Watson and Squatting Slav are fringe Internet personalities, and like Red Ice, none of that is mainstream or widely accepted. 99.9% of westerners don't even know who those guys are.

I would also point out that in January, Islamic radicals bombed Catholic churches in the Philippines, killing 20. The media virtually ignored this, and I saw no public outcry.

And for the guy posting Bin Laden videos under the pretense that Usama's logic somehow makes sense, I would ask how running over young girls in Sweden, a country that has virtually no involvement in Middle-Eastern affairs, and which has opened its doors to Muslims, is somehow justified?

No one should be making excuses for violent radicals, or trying to claim exclusive victimhood here. The barbarian who attacked the mosques in New Zealand is equivalent to ISIS.

[DanEdge]

I suggest you go and look up PragerU, Paul joseph Watson, SquattingSlavTV, RedIce TV, Fox, etc...

Things are a little bit worse and much better than you say. You left out Breitbart and Infowars, in my view the most notorious anti-Muslim "journalism" outlets. But you completely left out the other side of the story. From a journalistic perspective: CNN, ABC, PBS (publicly-funded), and BBC America are consistently anti-xenophobia in their reporting.

Here in the US, we just elected our first two Muslim women to Congress. Even before Democrats got control of the House, Trump's travel ban against Muslims was struck down by our court system, and they didn't even try to overturn that decision in Congress.

I live in Trump country, in the deep South. Even here we have a thriving Muslim community. Several mosques here in Greenville, South Carolina are part of an interfaith organization. Hundreds of members of my mom's Christian Church have visited mosques and hundreds of Muslims have visited her Church.

Our local newspaper The Greenville News published an op-ed about the recent tragic events, and it was written by a young lady affiliated with the Islamic Society of Greenville.

I am the West. I am an agnostic, skeptic, raised Christian, upper middle-class background, with traditional humanities education from a public university. The day after this tragedy took place, I called my local mosques to tell them that me and my friends and my family stand with them. I told them that I love them like brothers and sisters.

What I'm getting at is that if you only look for the bad, that is what you will find. There is good out there too. Look for that.

[CuriousonTruth]

Things are a little bit worse and much better than you say. You left out Breitbart and Infowars, in my view the most notorious anti-Muslim "journalism" outlets. But you completely left out the other side of the story. From a journalistic perspective: CNN, ABC, PBS (publicly-funded), and BBC America are consistently anti-xenophobia in their reporting.

Here in the US, we just elected our first two Muslim women to Congress. Even before Democrats got control of the House, Trump's travel ban against Muslims was struck down by our court system, and they didn't even try to overturn that decision in Congress.

I live in Trump country, in the deep South. Even here we have a thriving Muslim community. Several mosques here in Greenville, South Carolina are part of an interfaith organization. Hundreds of members of my mom's Christian Church have visited mosques and hundreds of Muslims have visited her Church.

Our local newspaper The Greenville News published an op-ed about the recent tragic events, and it was written by a young lady affiliated with the Islamic Society of Greenville.

I am the West. I am an agnostic, skeptic, raised Christian, upper middle-class background, with traditional humanities education from a public university. The day after this tragedy took place, I called my local mosques to tell them that me and my friends and my family stand with them. I told them that I love them like brothers and sisters.

What I'm getting at is that if you only look for the bad, that is what you will find. There is good out there too. Look for that.

Infowars is absolute BS even the WN I spoke to say that, they even say Alex Jones is a jew. I didn't mention because then I'd have to write it like a shopping list.

Yes Breitbart is a bit more serious, as is Jordan Peterson, Milo, etc. Milo is interesting because he is a mix of the old White nationalist, and the new punk alt-right making him incredibly popular among young whites(despite his priest fetish).

As for "anti-xenophobia" please don't include those garbage corporate news outlets who bang drums of war when it comes to serving the interest of elites and then turning ";iberal" when it suits them.

I guess some youtubers like Jimmy Dore and Kyle Kulinski(although being a radical atheist he is anti-islam as well) are somewhat anti-racism for real. I wouldn't take anything corporate media says seriously.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't Prager a Jewish Neocon?

Likewise, Paul Joseph Watson and Squatting Slav are fringe Internet personalities, and like Red Ice, none of that is mainstream or widely accepted. 99.9% of westerners don't even know who those guys are.

I would also point out that in January, Islamic radicals bombed Catholic churches in the Philippines, killing 20. The media virtually ignored this, and I saw no public outcry.

And for the guy posting Bin Laden videos under the pretense that Usama's logic somehow makes sense, I would ask how running over young girls in Sweden, a country that has virtually no involvement in Middle-Eastern affairs, and which has opened its doors to Muslims, is somehow justified?

No one should be making excuses for violent radicals, or trying to claim exclusive victimhood here. The barbarian who attacked the mosques in New Zealand is equivalent to ISIS.

No PragerU promotes what they call "christian" values. Ofcourse like most WN movement they are heavily pro-Israel. I think you were talking about Ben Shapiro.

They are not "fringe" they have a massive viewer base and support base. As for "mainstream" Sweden Democrats (2nd largest), Danish people party (ruling coalition), Marine Le Pen's party, AfD, etc are all very quickly rising thanks to voters who watch and identify with those talking points and ideology.

Their channels are all near million subscribers. Here's another info, Vox found out that Pewdiepie is subscribed to PJW, PragerU, Lauren Southern, etc. That's th world's largest youtuber. And if you have watched some of his content some of his videos also contain same talking points as the other channels.

Why do you keep bringing up ISIS? Not mroe than 5% support ISIS. Look at my profil picture, I like the Ottoman empire, and according to ISIS Ottomans were pagan kafirs. So why bring them up in the first place.

On the other hand, the far-right gets 20-40% of the votes across all European countries. They have someone like Geert Wilders who has zero policy expect anti-muslim and anti-Moroccon garbage is the 2nd largest party in Netherlands.

[alfaqir]

Things are a little bit worse and much better than you say. You left out Breitbart and Infowars, in my view the most notorious anti-Muslim "journalism" outlets. But you completely left out the other side of the story. From a journalistic perspective: CNN, ABC, PBS (publicly-funded), and BBC America are consistently anti-xenophobia in their reporting.

Here in the US, we just elected our first two Muslim women to Congress. Even before Democrats got control of the House, Trump's travel ban against Muslims was struck down by our court system, and they didn't even try to overturn that decision in Congress.

I live in Trump country, in the deep South. Even here we have a thriving Muslim community. Several mosques here in Greenville, South Carolina are part of an interfaith organization. Hundreds of members of my mom's Christian Church have visited mosques and hundreds of Muslims have visited her Church.

Our local newspaper The Greenville News published an op-ed about the recent tragic events, and it was written by a young lady affiliated with the Islamic Society of Greenville.

I am the West. I am an agnostic, skeptic, raised Christian, upper middle-class background, with traditional humanities education from a public university. The day after this tragedy took place, I called my local mosques to tell them that me and my friends and my family stand with them. I told them that I love them like brothers and sisters.

What I'm getting at is that if you only look for the bad, that is what you will find. There is good out there too. Look for that.

I truly understood it after the 2015 refugee crisis which really transformed the mental state of the society i live, but it applies to this and any other event too, that the very least one thing what we can always take from these that they are a kind of 'furqan' (i think 'distinguisher' ? in English), they are showing the true colour of individuals, separating the good from the rotten, showing what is in their heart, seeing how they cope and respond to these events, and it is irrespectively to whether they are muslims or non-muslims. I thank Allah for the 'ibret/lesson He give us, no matter if it is sometimes painful and disappointing to learn it, sometimes comforting and inspiring..

[DanEdge]

I truly understood it after the 2015 refugee crisis which really transformed the mental state of the society i live, but it applies to this and any other event too, that the very least one thing what we can always take from these that they are a kind of 'furqan' (i think 'distinguisher' ? in English), they are showing the true colour of individuals, separating the good from the rotten, showing what is in their heart, seeing how they cope and respond to these events, and it is irrespectively to whether they are muslims or non-muslims. I thank Allah for the 'ibret/lesson He give us, no matter if it is sometimes painful and disappointing to learn it, sometimes comforting and inspiring..

Yeah, I think that is the hidden blessing of all the social media outrage that we see. People are showing their true colors. It's all out there in the open, and we can react appropriately.

[Abz2000]

LIsten dude, i already spoke about disinfo and baseless emotional diatribes after that lawyer woman left us a bunch of "we must" ... "we must" non-Quranic obligations possibly on the authority of her "so called sheikh" ;)
Reminding me of the regular "we must" "we must" comments by israhelli zionist trolls we see under articles in news sites, so "we must" avoid disinfo and baseless illogical emotional diatribes ok?


Think with a scholarly mind instead of attempting to push random buttons with the hope of eliciting a hacked emotional association via false generalization - this isn't the baby albert experiment.



In the case of Usaama, it is clear that there was no falsehood and only clear facts from a very concerned individual who was explaining his genuine grievances and that of over a billion more people whilst the puppet leaders were standing by and even assisting when the corrupt enemy liars such as George W Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld were assisting illegal Israhell in its crimes against humanity, and planning an international war under consortiums such as that of PNAC penning members.
Shaikh Usaama was not responsible for car attacks on civilians in Europe even though NATO Tramps and Blackwater Tramps WERE and ARE responsible for air and land attacks on millions of civilians in the middle east - attacks based on falsehoods told to the duped masses of the host countries of the corrupt Tramps, so i don't know why you made the comparison, just as he wasn't responsible or legally wanted for the false flag attacks on 9/11. If you go back to the fbi's most wanted list up until the time of his murder and martyrdom, he was not wanted for 9/11 which was a false flag and which he publicly denied responsibility for including on Ummah magazine - whilst at the same time -assisting in any possible investigation by providing clues as to where to look for the actual culprits - but we know that the 9/11 commision was a joke and so was the fema report.
Just that Usaama knew what was going on long before most of us, and telling us about the war on Islam which we are now seeing slowly manifesting openly.
But there will be a time of regret for lying tyrants and their Trampy supporters, be assured of it.


The murderous criminal and bigotet stupid lone Tramp from last Friday on the other hand was pumping full falsehoods and delusions in his stupid conclusions and was talking about false and imaginary "invasions" despite knowing well about all the false - flags, accusations, and pretexts, and the attacks on Islaam, Islaamic leaders, and massacres of Muslims in Afghanistaan
--- after the Tuaalibaan banned opium which happened to be the source trade of the ancestors and role models of skull and bones, (research russel and company) , and were slowly working their way to getting their own air force (Usaama had the money, the financial backers, and a physical army at his command and was developing the place fast. ---

He (the lone Tramp) also knew that there were again attacks on Islaam, Islaamic leaders, and massacres of Muslims in Iraaq and Syria under multiple false pretexts, including using false excuses such WMD and then of removing those same baathist leaders whom the criminal and treacherous anglo american leaders themselves had been propping up until it became unprofitable to do so. Although the secularist baathist leaders' main beef was with illegal criminal israhell.

please therefore avoid misleading and false comparisons comletely out of the context of reality and truth.


As for "ISIS", we know about the zionist run american governemnt's false flag attacks on americans on 9/11, we know about the massacres facilitated by the Israhelli Secret Intelligence Services since the illegal creation of Israhell, and we know about the british government also sending out troops in syria to make false flag and illegal attacks on Muslims, under the Islaamic testimony banner also used by alqaa'idah and Islamic state.
So you must excuse me for not giving much weight to any finger pointing at an entity called Islaamic State.


Based on the above facts and more, I'd say that that murderous Tramp from last friday had a lot less justification - if any were to be claimed - than any furious Muslim retaliating to horrific massacres of millions of inncocent people by successive lying and traitorous anglo american and NATO governments (who are nothing more than enforcers for satanists, traitorous and tyrannical puppet dictators, weapons dealers, and thieving usurers, who are all pushing the world to financial ruin and deadly turmoil).
And if anyone were to condemn those Muslims, they would have to condemn the lying and corrupt NATO Tramps millions of times over first.

[Serinity]

Am i allowed to upload a link to the video just so people realize how important it is for citizenry to excercise their God given right to bear arms, if people had not forgotten that only mad people and slaves were prevented from keeping weapons so that there would be no revolt or mutiny against the masters - it is highly likely that someone would have pulled out a handgun and immobilized the illegal shooter, someone in the office should also have had a pistol in an easily accessible locker. This video is proof of the fact that even if governments who take away peoples God given rights by giving false and empty assurances of security -overtaxed the populations which they administer in order to inefficiently hire more police, such an incident is unavoidable -if people do not stand up and demand to be treated with due respect.

Allah SWT said:

وَإِذَا كُنْتَ فِيهِمْ فَأَقَمْتَ لَهُمُ الصَّلٰوةَ فَلْتَقُمْ طَآئِفَةٌ مِّنْهُمْ مَّعَكَ وَلْيَأْخُذُوٓا أَسْلِحَتَهُمْ فَإِذَا سَجَدُوا فَلْيَكُونُوا مِنْ وَرَآئِكُمْ وَلْتَأْتِ طَآئِفَةٌ أُخْرٰى لَمْ يُصَلُّوا فَلْيُصَلُّوا مَعَكَ وَلْيَأْخُذُوا حِذْرَهُمْ وَأَسْلِحَتَهُمْ ۗ وَدَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْ تَغْفُلُونَ عَنْ أَسْلِحَتِكُمْ وَأَمْتِعَتِكُمْ فَيَمِيلُونَ عَلَيْكُمْ مَّيْلَةً وٰحِدَةً ۚ وَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ إِنْ كَانَ بِكُمْ أَذًى مِّنْ مَّطَرٍ أَوْ كُنْتُمْ مَّرْضٰىٓ أَنْ تَضَعُوٓا أَسْلِحَتَكُمْ ۖ وَخُذُو ا حِذْرَكُمْ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ أَعَدَّ لِلْكٰفِرِينَ عَذَابًا مُّهِينًا

"And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand [in prayer] with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be [in position] behind you and have the other group come forward which has not [yet] prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one [single] attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment."

(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 102)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com





It was narrated from Abu Musa (radi Allahu anhu) that Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "If one of you passes through our Masjid or our marketplace, with an arrow, let him hold it in his hand by its point, lest he harm one of the Muslims with it in some way." [#6665: The Book of Al-Birr: Sahih Muslim]

http://dailyhadith.adaptivesolutions...our-Arrows.htm

As salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I agree, the terrorist needs to be crucified and we need to arm our masjids.


We have our rights to defend ourselves, and ANYONE who points a gun at a muslim is an enemy and his blood is halal.

I ask Allah to help the families, and curse the kafir with no return.

I watched the terror video, and the guy has NO remorse, he LAUGHED, and he said the only regret was that he didn't kill more.

I want revenge, and the punishment of Allah is fitting.

And no, we muslims shouldn't retaliate in copycat attacks, rather we should work to have justice. The guy killed.

Reintroduce Capital Punishment for this terrorist.

Islamophobia caused this, hateful rethoric and dehumanising of muslims

No leniency for terrorists.

- - - Updated - - -

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji’oon. May Allah gives beautiful place in jannah for the victims.

I'm very angry, but I don't want revenge. I just want this tragedy to be a reminder for everyone that violence is not the right way to solve problems.

----------------------

There were six Indonesians in masjid An-Noor, and two other in masjid Linwood. One who was in masjid An-noor, Mr Lilik Abdul Hamid, died in this tragedy. While two other who were in masjid Linwood, a father and his little boy, being shot, but now in stable condition.

I disagree, this terror was terrible, but if more muslims were armed the deaths would have been reduced.

So the solution is violence and harshness against those who fight us. No leniency with enemies.

Flowers and nice words won't do against these shayateen.

Only Death or Submission for them. Nothing else.

I read some of his manifesto and it is clear to me he didnt care. The kafir killed us only cuz we believed in Allah and were legal immigrants.

And believe me, only Physical Jihad will do against them, only death or submission.

These are the kuffar you are HARSH and ruthless against, not lenient at all.

Believe me, such ppl don't give a damn about us.

They'd kill you and me without any remorse. And laugh.

So do not show affection or mercy to those who only want ruin for you. Those devils dont deserve any.

I see the wisdom now behind verses where we are commanded to be harsh and not befriend them, and to slay them in battle.

I love you akhi, we need stronger baraa' against our enemies and stronger walaa' for muslims.

Violence is good when done in the cause of Allah.

Not all violence is bad

[Abz2000]

I personally wouldn't call for the death penalty in usurer run countries since the terrorism card has been abused too many times, and too many of our best brothers and sisters are still waiting in jail for their lawful actions -and sometimes only speech- against the now internationally admitted ILLEGAL invaders of Iraaq - and we await their vindication.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

*sigh*

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[DanEdge]

I personally wouldn't call for the death penalty in usurer run countries since the terrorism card has been abused too many times, and too many of our best brothers and sisters are still waiting in jail for their lawful actions -and sometimes only speech- against the now internationally admitted ILLEGAL invaders of Iraaq - and we await their vindication.

Yeah, Death Penalty can be a double-edged sword. If I recall correctly, recent statistics show that 1 out of 9 criminals executed here in the past 50 years were posthumously exonerated (found innocent). That's a lot of innocent people killed, around 100.

Most of these Innocents were blacks falsely accused of crimes in the South in the 1950's through 1970's. Many in the US are now calling for a moratorium on the death penalty, and I tend to agree. If I were a Muslim living in the US, I would agree much more strongly. Muslims and Mexicans are there new public enemy #1 in the eyes of many less enlightened citizens.

[DanEdge]

...

I agree, the terrorist needs to be crucified and we need to arm our masjids.

...

I want revenge, and the punishment of Allah is fitting.

....

I disagree, this terror was terrible, but if more muslims were armed the deaths would have been reduced.

So the solution is violence and harshness against those who fight us. No leniency with enemies.

...

Only Death or Submission for them. Nothing else.

...

Violence is good when done in the cause of Allah.

I'd be careful with all that anger. While justified, the more you feed it the stronger it gets. Hate festers over time and takes on a life of its own, even if you discover later that the source was unjustified.

I was a young man of 23 when the Twin Towers fell, and it took me almost 15 years to finally go to a mosque, join IB, and start surgically removing the hate and prejudice from deep within my heart.

Also: do you really want citizens with guns in your place of worship? I understand the need for extra security in harsh times. Our local cops posted up outside our mosques for a few days after the attack. But I think it sends the wrong message, both internally and externally, if you start packing heat on holy ground.

[ardianto]

So the solution is violence and harshness against those who fight us. No leniency with enemies.

What is happening now is not conventional war which if the enemy bomb our base, then we bomb enemy base. But conflict of hate, which both parties are always targeting innocent people. That’s why we must try to reduce this conflict to prevent more innocent people fall victims.

[M.I.A.]

So basically we are now on the opposite side of our own argument..

What it feels like to be victims of terror.

And those that really care the least, justify the act by pointing to atrocities committed against non muslims in Muslim countries on the regular.

Me personally I am still not buying into any of it.. the internet is a fickle and fake place.

The only benefit of strong opposition from all sides is people willing to dig through old Facebook posts..tweets or what have you.

The hypocircy of our selves needs to looked at.

We need a change in mentality rather than a change in feeling.. it will get you further.

Allah swt have mercy on all those involved.

[SintoDinto]

As salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I agree, the terrorist needs to be crucified and we need to arm our masjids.


We have our rights to defend ourselves, and ANYONE who points a gun at a muslim is an enemy and his blood is halal.

I ask Allah to help the families, and curse the kafir with no return.

I watched the terror video, and the guy has NO remorse, he LAUGHED, and he said the only regret was that he didn't kill more.

I want revenge, and the punishment of Allah is fitting.

And no, we muslims shouldn't retaliate in copycat attacks, rather we should work to have justice. The guy killed.

Reintroduce Capital Punishment for this terrorist.

Islamophobia caused this, hateful rethoric and dehumanising of muslims

No leniency for terrorists.

- - - Updated - - -




I disagree, this terror was terrible, but if more muslims were armed the deaths would have been reduced.

So the solution is violence and harshness against those who fight us. No leniency with enemies.

Flowers and nice words won't do against these shayateen.

Only Death or Submission for them. Nothing else.

I read some of his manifesto and it is clear to me he didnt care. The kafir killed us only cuz we believed in Allah and were legal immigrants.

And believe me, only Physical Jihad will do against them, only death or submission.

These are the kuffar you are HARSH and ruthless against, not lenient at all.

Believe me, such ppl don't give a damn about us.

They'd kill you and me without any remorse. And laugh.

So do not show affection or mercy to those who only want ruin for you. Those devils dont deserve any.

I see the wisdom now behind verses where we are commanded to be harsh and not befriend them, and to slay them in battle.

I love you akhi, we need stronger baraa' against our enemies and stronger walaa' for muslims.

Violence is good when done in the cause of Allah.

Not all violence is bad

terror attack by muslim scumbag turk in netherlands: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-utrecht-tram/ is this what you wanted @Serinity ????? you Islamists never fail to amaze me

[M.I.A.]

terror attack by muslim scumbag turk in netherlands: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-utrecht-tram/ is this what you wanted @Serinity ????? you Islamists never fail to amaze me

...winning hearts and minds I'm sure o_0

I don't think any of you are stupid enough to not realise that it's not war.. its straight up mischief.

But if religion were simple God would have only had to tell you once.. ending on an oversimplified throwaway because who wants to be popular.

[Silas]

I should point out that Dennis Prager is Jewish, and a hardcore neocon Zionist. Guy hates Muslims. His views are not widely accepted, even among conservatives in the US, but he does have a small following.

Ben Shapiro is also Jewish and pro-Israel, but he has a much softer stance when it comes to Muslim immigration, and I wouldn't call him anti-Muslim. He has argued for the rights of Muslims in the US to worship and organize freely, and has condemned attacks against them.

I don't think there is any one group we can call "White Nationalists" --it is a boogeyman term used by the MSM. Within that sphere, you could have outright racists and Nazis, but you could also have civic nationalists who want to reduce immigration and are very pro-European in their outlook. Why is Arab Nationalism OK, but White Nationalism evil? Maybe both of them are, but just because someone is ethnocentric and nationalist, it does not make him evil. The opposite of a nationalist is a globalist, and when people hear that, they think of guys like George Soros and Thomas Friedman. These are the guys these WN types really hate, because they think they want to erase borders and cultures in an effort to usher in a plutocratic, third-world sweatshop nation run by Jewish oligarchs. Obviously, this is a simplification and a bit hysteric, but it is what they believe.

[Serinity]

terror attack by muslim scumbag turk in netherlands: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-utrecht-tram/ is this what you wanted @Serinity ????? you Islamists never fail to amaze me

No, this is not what I wanted, I just want armed /secured masjids from now on.

- - - Updated - - -

What is happening now is not conventional war which if the enemy bomb our base, then we bomb enemy base. But conflict of hate, which both parties are always targeting innocent people. That’s why we must try to reduce this conflict to prevent more innocent people fall victims.

We don't live in times of peace. We have to arm ourselves to protect ourselves.

Ending Islamophobia etc.

- - - Updated - - -

What is happening now is not conventional war which if the enemy bomb our base, then we bomb enemy base. But conflict of hate, which both parties are always targeting innocent people. That’s why we must try to reduce this conflict to prevent more innocent people fall victims.

We don't live in times of peace. We have to arm ourselves to protect ourselves.

Ending Islamophobia etc.

[CuriousonTruth]

terror attack by muslim scumbag turk in netherlands: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-utrecht-tram/ is this what you wanted @Serinity ????? you Islamists never fail to amaze me

How do you know it's a "terror" attack and not gang violence? Turks are many things but not salafis, so I highly doubt it has anything to do with religion.

[AbdurRahman.]

Former Chechen jihadi and ISIS suspect carries out terror attack!!!:

A local businessman told BBC Turkish that the suspect had previously fought in Russia's republic of Chechnya.

Jihadist groups, including those aligned with the Islamic State (IS) group, have long operated in the region.

"He was arrested because of his connections with [IS] but released later," the businessman told the BBC.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47615231

[CuriousonTruth]

I should point out that Dennis Prager is Jewish, and a hardcore neocon Zionist. Guy hates Muslims. His views are not widely accepted, even among conservatives in the US, but he does have a small following.

Ben Shapiro is also Jewish and pro-Israel, but he has a much softer stance when it comes to Muslim immigration, and I wouldn't call him anti-Muslim. He has argued for the rights of Muslims in the US to worship and organize freely, and has condemned attacks against them.

I don't think there is any one group we can call "White Nationalists" --it is a boogeyman term used by the MSM. Within that sphere, you could have outright racists and Nazis, but you could also have civic nationalists who want to reduce immigration and are very pro-European in their outlook. Why is Arab Nationalism OK, but White Nationalism evil? Maybe both of them are, but just because someone is ethnocentric and nationalist, it does not make him evil. The opposite of a nationalist is a globalist, and when people hear that, they think of guys like George Soros and Thomas Friedman. These are the guys these WN types really hate, because they think they want to erase borders and cultures in an effort to usher in a plutocratic, third-world sweatshop nation run by Jewish oligarchs. Obviously, this is a simplification and a bit hysteric, but it is what they believe.

Let's not suddenly pretend now globalism hasn't benefitted the West. Globalism is just an extension of colonialism. European countries have used "human rights" as a casus belli to attack and remove many legitimate governments like in Algeria, Egypt, etc. It has used its globalist economic system to suffocate any country that will not be their slaves, they even managed to harm a robust economy like that of Turkey. And I don't think I need to mention how they suffocated Iran and any country they don't like.

And those "anti-globalists" certainly don't mind muslim countries and countries they hate being thrown under the bus by "globalism". And it is Muslim countries' whose culture is being erased. Western clothing and lifestyle is everywhere as are the problems (divorce, adultery, pre-marital sex, etc) that comes with it. And when muslims fight back, they are either extremists or terrorists.

For someone who knows about Europeans - the world's most xenophobic people, I have no expectation or need of Europeans to play "nice" or tolerate other cultures when they spent centuries destroying other cultures or way of life and if they couldn't do that (as with Islam) they mock, degrade it and character assassinate the founders of it.

The Europeans want nationalism for themselves but when non-European countries like Turkey elects a nationalist, conservative leader liek Erdogan they absolutely hate them for it. Europeans talk about human rights and democracy, but they have no problem in supporting coups against legitimate democratic leaders like Erdogan and Morsi. I still remember nearly every European and American were celebrating when the Egyptian army forced Muslim Brotherhood out and how they were tearing their hair and raging when the one in Turkey failed. Geert Wilders said it was a great dissapointment that the coup failed. This is the leader of the second largest party of Netherlands.

And to cover their loss, they said "Oh Erdogan planned the whole thing".

Evil, just pure evil.

[MazharShafiq]

the terrorist needs to be crucified and we need to arm our masjids.

[Silas]

Let's not suddenly pretend now globalism hasn't benefitted the West. Globalism is just an extension of colonialism. European countries have used "human rights" as a casus belli to attack and remove many legitimate governments like in Algeria, Egypt, etc. It has used its globalist economic system to suffocate any country that will not be their slaves, they even managed to harm a robust economy like that of Turkey. And I don't think I need to mention how they suffocated Iran and any country they don't like.

And those "anti-globalists" certainly don't mind muslim countries and countries they hate being thrown under the bus by "globalism". And it is Muslim countries' whose culture is being erased. Western clothing and lifestyle is everywhere as are the problems (divorce, adultery, pre-marital sex, etc) that comes with it. And when muslims fight back, they are either extremists or terrorists.

For someone who knows about Europeans - the world's most xenophobic people, I have no expectation or need of Europeans to play "nice" or tolerate other cultures when they spent centuries destroying other cultures or way of life and if they couldn't do that (as with Islam) they mock, degrade it and character assassinate the founders of it.

The Europeans want nationalism for themselves but when non-European countries like Turkey elects a nationalist, conservative leader liek Erdogan they absolutely hate them for it. Europeans talk about human rights and democracy, but they have no problem in supporting coups against legitimate democratic leaders like Erdogan and Morsi. I still remember nearly every European and American were celebrating when the Egyptian army forced Muslim Brotherhood out and how they were tearing their hair and raging when the one in Turkey failed. Geert Wilders said it was a great dissapointment that the coup failed. This is the leader of the second largest party of Netherlands.

And to cover their loss, they said "Oh Erdogan planned the whole thing".

Evil, just pure evil.

Globalism has largely benefited wealthy people in the west, or at the very least, the upper-middle-class. For the working class, it has meant lost jobs and industries.

As for Europeans being the most Xenophobic people, that is nonsense. It is the Europeans who allowed hundreds of thousands of war refugees and economic migrants into their countries over the last 10 years (and many before that). Most Europeans are very welcoming of immigrants, and when I lived in Germany, there was a large Turkish population there. This doesn't mean the natives always get along with the immigrants, or that there are no problems, but a Xenophobic people wouldn't let immigrants in to begin with.

You say "when Muslims fight back, they are either extremists or terrorists". I'm not sure what you mean by that--because it seems to me, there is this narrative that gets spun by violent Islamists that involves justifying attacks against civilians in the west because Israel launched a rocket into Gaza, or the US air force bombed an ISIS installation in Syria.

Trying to tell the Swedish people that running over school children with a truck is somehow justified because of US attacks on Muslims in Syria makes Muslims look very bad in western eyes. Likewise, trying to claim moral high ground after the New Zealand attacks while virtually ignoring previous attacks like the 2015 Paris attacks (130 dead), or Orlando shootings (49 dead), or worse, waving these things away as "understandable blow back for US crimes", causes westerners to view Muslims with suspicion.

So if "fighting back" involves nightclub shootings, shooting people on trains (which happened today), or bombings, yes, you will be labeled as a terrorist, and rightfully so. You will join the ranks of this barabarian in New Zealand, who is also a terrorist.

[Serinity]

Globalism has largely benefited wealthy people in the west, or at the very least, the upper-middle-class. For the working class, it has meant lost jobs and industries.

As for Europeans being the most Xenophobic people, that is nonsense. It is the Europeans who allowed hundreds of thousands of war refugees and economic migrants into their countries over the last 10 years (and many before that). Most Europeans are very welcoming of immigrants, and when I lived in Germany, there was a large Turkish population there. This doesn't mean the natives always get along with the immigrants, or that there are no problems, but a Xenophobic people wouldn't let immigrants in to begin with.

You say "when Muslims fight back, they are either extremists or terrorists". I'm not sure what you mean by that--because it seems to me, there is this narrative that gets spun by violent Islamists that involves justifying attacks against civilians in the west because Israel launched a rocket into Gaza, or the US air force bombed an ISIS installation in Syria.

Trying to tell the Swedish people that running over school children with a truck is somehow justified because of US attacks on Muslims in Syria makes Muslims look very bad in western eyes. Likewise, trying to claim moral high ground after the New Zealand attacks while virtually ignoring previous attacks like the 2015 Paris attacks (130 dead), or Orlando shootings (49 dead), or worse, waving these things away as "understandable blow back for US crimes", causes westerners to view Muslims with suspicion.

So if "fighting back" involves nightclub shootings, shooting people on trains (which happened today), or bombings, yes, you will be labeled as a terrorist, and rightfully so. You will join the ranks of this barabarian in New Zealand, who is also a terrorist.

Ofc we should not kill civilians

Problem is, the alt right terrorists on the kafir side, and the Muslim terrorists on the muslim side.

And then us civilians caught in the crossfire.

Kafirs like him need to be shot on sight, no questions asked.

Ramping up security around masjids + making escape routes should be a priority

Lets call a terrorist a terrorist

[سيف الله]

Salaam

More comment

Blurb

Moazzam Begg speaks about the incident earlier today in New Zealand and how we should react as a community.



Blurb

After two weeks of rest, Bilal Abdul Kareem is back on The BAK Show. In wake of the Christchurch terrorist mass shooting, Bilal will be exposing those who claim that 'not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim'.

[CuriousonTruth]

Globalism has largely benefited wealthy people in the west, or at the very least, the upper-middle-class. For the working class, it has meant lost jobs and industries.

As for Europeans being the most Xenophobic people, that is nonsense. It is the Europeans who allowed hundreds of thousands of war refugees and economic migrants into their countries over the last 10 years (and many before that). Most Europeans are very welcoming of immigrants, and when I lived in Germany, there was a large Turkish population there. This doesn't mean the natives always get along with the immigrants, or that there are no problems, but a Xenophobic people wouldn't let immigrants in to begin with.

You say "when Muslims fight back, they are either extremists or terrorists". I'm not sure what you mean by that--because it seems to me, there is this narrative that gets spun by violent Islamists that involves justifying attacks against civilians in the west because Israel launched a rocket into Gaza, or the US air force bombed an ISIS installation in Syria.

Trying to tell the Swedish people that running over school children with a truck is somehow justified because of US attacks on Muslims in Syria makes Muslims look very bad in western eyes. Likewise, trying to claim moral high ground after the New Zealand attacks while virtually ignoring previous attacks like the 2015 Paris attacks (130 dead), or Orlando shootings (49 dead), or worse, waving these things away as "understandable blow back for US crimes", causes westerners to view Muslims with suspicion.

So if "fighting back" involves nightclub shootings, shooting people on trains (which happened today), or bombings, yes, you will be labeled as a terrorist, and rightfully so. You will join the ranks of this barabarian in New Zealand, who is also a terrorist.

Correction: Western governements allowed cheap migrants to come into Europe, not the people. And this is after 1900s, before that Europeans never tolerated any minority (Reconquista is an example), or Russia wiping out Siberians and Tatars. Islamic empires already had multi-racial society 1000 years ago. Only Ummayads were ethnocentric. Abbasids, Ottomans were extremely diverse.

As for refugees so what? Ottomans had taken tens of thousands of Moorish, Jewish, Gypsy, Circassian/Caucasian mountain refugees. Even though Ottomans and Poland were sworn enemies, when Polish refugees came after Russia defeated PLC, they were allowed in. Ottomans gave a large sum of money to Ireland to help against the famine. I don't see Irish or Poles ever thanking muslims for it. Infact Poles hate Islam and Turks most in Europe.

Why do you keep bringing up ISIS? I clearly mentioned Erdogan, FIS in Algeria, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Iran, etc. By fighting back, it means kicking out atheism, homosexuality, Western sexual degeneracy and other disgusting vices, liberalism, secularism, etc. FIS was elected to remove French culture from Algeria by the people, French government ordered the "Algerian" army to coup resulting in a long civil war where thousands upon thousands died.

[Silas]

Ofc we should not kill civilians

Problem is, the alt right terrorists on the kafir side, and the Muslim terrorists on the muslim side.

And then us civilians caught in the crossfire.

Kafirs like him need to be shot on sight, no questions asked.

Ramping up security around masjids + making escape routes should be a priority

Lets call a terrorist a terrorist

saying the Muslim terrorists are on the Muslim side is like saying the Crusaders, who butchered both Muslims and Christians as they raped and pillaged their way through the Byzantine Empire and then the Holy Land, were on the "Christian side".

make no mistake: the guys who run over schoolchildren with trucks and the goon who shot the people Zealand will be sent to the same place by God.

[alfaqir]

Former Chechen jihadi and ISIS suspect carries out terror attack!!!:

A local businessman told BBC Turkish that the suspect had previously fought in Russia's republic of Chechnya.

Jihadist groups, including those aligned with the Islamic State (IS) group, have long operated in the region.

"He was arrested because of his connections with [IS] but released later," the businessman told the BBC.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47615231

He was captured now alhamdulillah.

There are no ifs, buts and excuses for these kind of terrorists. I don't know what was in his mind. I had been to Utrecht years ago, it has a large flourishing muslim community, big mosques, muslim businesses etc whatever you want. Now he not only took the life of three innocents, he made the life harder for all people there, both muslims and non-muslims. And of course he contributed to Wilders' islamophobic political campaign too...

[Serinity]

saying the Muslim terrorists are on the Muslim side is like saying the Crusaders, who butchered both Muslims and Christians as they raped and pillaged their way through the Byzantine Empire and then the Holy Land, were on the "Christian side".

make no mistake: the guys who run over schoolchildren with trucks and the goon who shot the people Zealand will be sent to the same place by God.

Indeed. I'd say the gravity of evil that NZ terrorist did against muslims, targeting muslims, is as grave and as ruthless as 9/11.. Like a 9/11 against muslims.

Both have suffered. We need to implement Islamic Law in Muslim Land, and not let anyone terrorise anyone

Be they muslim or not, be it against muslims, like in NZ, OR against kuffar (like in 9/11)

Make no mistake, the terror attack on Muslims in Masajid, was planned to target muslims- it was a deliberate calculated cold hearted attack on Muslims at large.

And to inspire copy cat attacka, we ahould not over react. Dying is not something we fear.

Think on the bright side: they died in a masjid, martyred, and therefore are shaheed. In akhira sense, there is no loss.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

terror attack by muslim scumbag turk in netherlands: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-utrecht-tram/ is this what you wanted @Serinity ????? you Islamists never fail to amaze me

Learn some self restraint and self control before you go of on a demented rant, this is an Islamic forum remember?

Quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz View Post

Former Chechen jihadi and ISIS suspect carries out terror attack!!!:

A local businessman told BBC Turkish that the suspect had previously fought in Russia's republic of Chechnya.

Jihadist groups, including those aligned with the Islamic State (IS) group, have long operated in the region.

"He was arrested because of his connections with [IS] but released later," the businessman told the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47615231

There is much confusion over his motivations, let the dust clear before we jump to conclusions.

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[anatolian]

Excuse me..Speculating over one incident is pointless to me. A "lot" more people including Muslims are dying each day because of several other types, including state based, terrorism all over the world. This New Zealander beast is a just a product of this world wide terror mentality. We cant blame it on the Christian far-right or white nationalism or anything else that seems to fit it just as they cant blame Islam for 9/11. I dont know who or what is causing that but the World is going on this way. Only mercy can change it.

[AbdurRahman.]

He was captured now alhamdulillah.

There are no ifs, buts and excuses for these kind of terrorists. I don't know what was in his mind. I had been to Utrecht years ago, it has a large flourishing muslim community, big mosques, muslim businesses etc whatever you want. Now he not only took the life of three innocents, he made the life harder for all people there, both muslims and non-muslims. And of course he contributed to Wilders' islamophobic political campaign too...

He was obviously alqaida inspired.

Anyway, what's done is done and let's hope nothing will get worse then it is. And since Allah is in charge, we can hope things will get better as it's time for everyone to realise that kaafiraphobia and Islamaphobia gets us nowhere and it only breeds tit for tat attacks

[keiv]

I wonder if we'll get to see one of these again. Terrorists marching against terrorism

[Singularity]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-com...151037021.html

Trump complains he is being blamed for New Zealand attack
AFP Sebastian Smith,AFP 5 hours ago
US President Donald Trump waded Monday into the controversy over his response to the massacre of 50 people in two New Zealand mosques, complaining that he was being blamed for the tragedy.

"The Fake News Media is working overtime to blame me for the horrible attack in New Zealand," Trump told his more than 59 million followers on Twitter.

"They will have to work very hard to prove that one," he tweeted. "So Ridiculous!"

Trump appeared to be referring to criticism of his response to the attack, which was allegedly carried out by a 28-year-old white supremacist claiming to be resisting genocide against white people.

In a lengthy written rant, the alleged killer referred to Trump as "a symbol of renewed white identity."

Trump did on several occasions tweet and speak to condemn the "horrible" attack and offer any US assistance to New Zealand's authorities.

However, he courted controversy Friday when he played down the wider implications of the gunman's ideology, saying that violent white nationalism is not a growing problem.

"It's a small group of people," he said.

Trump's homeland security chief, Kirstjen Nielsen, gave a distinctly different emphasis Monday in a speech where she said that "domestic terrorists," like the New Zealand killer, increasingly resemble the better known threat from Islamist groups.

- 'Mass murder tactics' -

"The primary terrorist threat to the United States continues to be from Islamist militants and those they inspire, but we should not and cannot and must not ignore the real and serious danger posed by domestic terrorists," she said.

"They are using the same do-it-yourself, mass murder tactics as we saw with the horrible assault last week in New Zealand against Muslim worshipers," she said.

Trump's dismissal of a broader security threat led to a flurry of criticism from Democrats and other critics over the weekend.

They pointed to his frequent labeling of illegal immigrants as invaders, his high-profile restrictions on immigration from several Muslim-majority countries, and a lukewarm condemnation of a neo-Nazi march in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017.

"Time and time again, this president has embraced and emboldened white supremacists -- and instead of condemning racist terrorists, he covers for them. This isn't normal or acceptable," tweeted Kirsten Gillibrand, who formally entered the Democratic race for the White House Sunday.

Acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney went on television Sunday to push back, saying "the president is not a white supremacist. I'm not sure how many times we have to say that."

"To simply ask the question every time something like this happens overseas, or even domestically, to say, 'Oh, my goodness, it must somehow be the president's fault,' speaks to a politicization of everything that I think is undermining sort of the institutions that we have in the country today," he said on Fox television.

[AbdurRahman.]

And of course he contributed to Wilders' islamophobic political campaign too...

The jews got a good grip on western countries and it's going to be multiculturalism all the way... the ZOG will never allow nazism to make a come back

[beleiver]

For every soul the terrorist sent to paradise, a thousand souls will be touched by Allaha, inshallaha...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3M3OlXWRrI

[CuriousonTruth]

Salaam



Learn some self restraint and self control before you go of on a demented rant, this is an Islamic forum remember?



There is much confusion over his motivations, let the dust clear before we jump to conclusions.

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As I suspected.

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The jews got a good grip on western countries and it's going to be multiculturalism all the way... the ZOG will never allow nazism to make a come back

Nazism is the Zion's tool.

The World Zionist congress had cooperated with the Nazi movement. No jew in Europe wanted to go and live in the Middle East and the religious jews opposed creation of Israel as a heresy. The Zionists helped Nazis to bypass the economic embargoes in turn of kicking out jews from Europe (who in turn would go to Palestine and US) while killing the religious, orthodox jews.

And even today, the far-right is funded entirely by Zionists. Lol Wilders in one year spent more time in Israeli embassy than elsewhere.

[Silas]

The US does not have a "Nazi problem", and there isn't some large, dangerous, white supremacist population about to seize control of government, or launch wide-ranging attacks against civilians

It's propaganda put forth by the Democratic Party, SPLC, and ADL to scare people into voting for their candidates and support their legislation.

A few hundred Internet trolls showing up in Charlottsville in 2017 hardly indicates some big, dangerous right-wing insurgency. Likewise, the existence of edgy youtube channels or podcasts doesn't indicate that either.

Even among right-wing groups that do exist, there is a lot of variation of opinion on things.

Take for instance the American Identity Movement (AIM), formerly known as Identity Evropa. The media loves to paint these guys as Nazis, even though they reject that label and condemn political violence. Their leader, Patrick Casey, sent out a press release and official memo to his members denouncing the shootings in New Zealand, and rejecting the use of political or ethnic violence.

Now there are always some crazy people out there, and some dangerous groups, but the groups are tiny, and any population has a crazy guy who finds some reason to go out and shoot people.

People also like to point to the election of Trump as "proof" that Americans are endorsing hateful, anti-immigrant policies. That isn't true.

Why did people vote for Trump?

Here are the primary reasons according to research, polls, and my personal experience:

1. They hated the foreign adventurism and dangerous, militant, neocon policies of Hillary Clinton. They thought Trump was going to bring our troops home and follow an "America-first" policy. Obviously, that didn't happen.
2. Working-class Americans wanted Trump to renegotiate trade policies with China and other nations. They wanted some protectionism. they wanted an end to NAFTA and CAFTA.
3. Some Americans, especially the working class, were worried about unfettered, mass immigration. Some worried about losing their jobs, others worried about the crime and problems it might bring.
4. Some worried about Hillary's tax proposals, which would have greatly impacted the middle-class. Her call to end the step-up basis for capital gains on all estates would have meant middle-class people paying huge taxes after death, and this would have closed thousands of small businesses, etc. Trump promised to cut taxes (and he did).
6. Hillary was massively corrupt

In other words, it wasn't some big group of racist white people who put Trump into office--that is an absurd lie. Leftist media outlets keep pushing this narrative for political purposes.

Trump is a moderate neocon Republican at best. He isn't some right-wing populist or radical capitalist. People like to say he hates Muslims, and yet he is welcome in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and works with Arab leaders in the Middle-East quite enthusiastically. There are Muslims working for his corporations.

I don't think Trump has a very good understanding of Islam or the Middle-East, but I don't think he is anti-Muslim.

Now I don't like Trump, but that is for different reasons than stated here. But it is important to understand the reality of the situation.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

I agree with you if we're going to understand right wing, nationalist movements then we have to be careful of generalising or engaging in mindless condemnation that the MSM likes to engage in. If People want to protect their culture and heritage rather than have it subsumed into the vortex of globalism I dont see a problem with that.

However I am wary of this whole ethnonationalism business for obvious reasons.

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The prejudice is there, it is very overt

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(have family who visits America regularly it's almost casual) and Trump is prejudiced. Some Muslims actually like him because he dispenses with the fakery.

From a European perspective.

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And of course

Syria, Gaza and the Criminalisation of Islam

Having said that

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The leaders he deals with arent model Muslims by a long shot, they are part of the global elite, the kind of people Trump likes to be around. In fact, Trump joked, how he looked the Saudi leadership in the eye (he casually warned them they wont last 2 weeks without his support) then lo and behold they became 'enthusiastic' about returning to 'moderate' Islam. Being a businessman he will bend or even swallow any principles he has to make a deal.

[Neithan]

Praying for the souls of the dead. May Allah have mercy and grant us forgiveness and peace. This terrorist was arrested but there can be no justice in this world when one person can take so many innocent lives.

[CuriousonTruth]

I have no idea who this Fel Feel guy is but he sounds like a first class ignorant who has simply zero clue of history. I hope he enjoys his brownie points for now.

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No one cares about your goddamn personal experience. The graves of long dead civilizations, the mass looting of resources, attempting to destroy an entire country through opium, killing Aboriginal men and then making their wives dance around carrying the dead heads.

I say those who defend these people may Allah Grant them the same destination, Amin.

[Serinity]

https://youtu.be/0SpoxujIRk0

I support Erdogan, respect! Erdogan 's speech was like fresh air in this time of grief.

Anyone who defends this shaytaan, may they be resurrected with him
Ameen.

[Silas]

I have no idea who this Fel Feel guy is but he sounds like a first class ignorant who has simply zero clue of history. I hope he enjoys his brownie points for now.

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No one cares about your goddamn personal experience. The graves of long dead civilizations, the mass looting of resources, attempting to destroy an entire country through opium, killing Aboriginal men and then making their wives dance around carrying the dead heads.

I say those who defend these people may Allah Grant them the same destination, Amin.

So you think white Europeans are the only ones who launched wars of conquest and engaged in imperialism? The only ones to commit atrocities in war, or genocides?

What propaganda have you been reading?

Many civilizations and peoples have engaged in such things. This narrative about the Native Americans being noble savages living peacefully on the land before white people got to the new world is complete leftist revisionism. Those tribes were killing each other in mass numbers before white people even arrived, and continued to do so. Most died of diseases like smallpox, not from massacres by US soldiers. Likewise, the Aztecs in Mexico were brutal and war-like.

The Arab conquests of the 6th and 7th century were pretty brutal at times, and many were killed or taken into slavery. In the 18th and 19th century, Muslims pirates were seizing American and European ships and selling the sailors into slavery (which launched the war against the Barbary Pirates). Then w have the Armenian genocide, which you conveniently refuse to recognize.

And what of Chinese or Japanese imperialism? How many millions died when Japan attacked Manchuria in 1930s? Pol Pot and Mao killed millions of their own people.

Virtually every people and civilization, from the Romans to the present, have had their dark chapters and times of war. Some more than others, sure, but no one is "innocent" and perfect. Muslims are human beings, just like Christians, Jews, etc.

This is also not a racial thing, which seems to be the suggestion here. There are 50-100 white, western Muslims living in my community alone. Some are reverts, others married into the faith, and couple were actually born into it. How would they feel when presented with this slander that all white people are murderous barbarians?

I can attest to the fact that a vast majority of whites are generally good people, who harbor no ill-will towards Muslims, or even other ethnic groups. The biggest problem in the west is that people simply don't understand Islam--it is mysterious, and this can lead to misunderstandings.

[CuriousonTruth]

So you think white Europeans are the only ones who launched wars of conquest and engaged in imperialism? The only ones to commit atrocities in war, or genocides?

What propaganda have you been reading?

Many civilizations and peoples have engaged in such things. This narrative about the Native Americans being noble savages living peacefully on the land before white people got to the new world is complete leftist revisionism. Those tribes were killing each other in mass numbers before white people even arrived, and continued to do so. Most died of diseases like smallpox, not from massacres by US soldiers. Likewise, the Aztecs in Mexico were brutal and war-like.

The Arab conquests of the 6th and 7th century were pretty brutal at times, and many were killed or taken into slavery. In the 18th and 19th century, Muslims pirates were seizing American and European ships and selling the sailors into slavery (which launched the war against the Barbary Pirates). Then w have the Armenian genocide, which you conveniently refuse to recognize.

And what of Chinese or Japanese imperialism? How many millions died when Japan attacked Manchuria in 1930s? Pol Pot and Mao killed millions of their own people.

Virtually every people and civilization, from the Romans to the present, have had their dark chapters and times of war. Some more than others, sure, but no one is "innocent" and perfect. Muslims are human beings, just like Christians, Jews, etc.

This is also not a racial thing, which seems to be the suggestion here. There are 50-100 white, western Muslims living in my community alone. Some are reverts, others married into the faith, and couple were actually born into it. How would they feel when presented with this slander that all white people are murderous barbarians?

I can attest to the fact that a vast majority of whites are generally good people, who harbor no ill-will towards Muslims, or even other ethnic groups. The biggest problem in the west is that people simply don't understand Islam--it is mysterious, and this can lead to misunderstandings.

When did I say that. I said they are by far the the most brutal. I would upload some pictures but that would be problematic for the forum. But to reiterate, no one carries two heads and smiles for te picture. No one else in this entire world revels in inflicting pain and suffering so much. Others do for their self interests. Europeans do because this is their entertainment.

Are you seriously comparing Islamic conquests with Western imperialism? I promise you there would be ZERO Greeks, ZERO Spanish, ZERO Portuguese, ZERO Serbians, ZERO Romanians if muslims adopted the same policy of extermination as the European imperialists did. There are Coptics, Marionites, Persians, etc still in muslim countries. What happened to Andalusian Berber muslims? What happened to the muslims in Greece, Bulgaria, etc?

Islamic conquests were the most benevolent in history. There is no other that mirrored its tolerance to people that were literally trying to kill them before.

Yes Aztecs were warlike, no one denies that. That doesn't give Europeans any right to attack and invade their territory. Say what happened to the "Europe belongs to Europeans" thing?

And even expect for that, what did the Incas, Iroquis, Cherokee, Sioux, Mayans do? Infact there was a treaty between USA and Natives on borders, a treaty USA violated time and time again (Israel anyone?).

Japanese were isonlationists for most of their history, so as brutal as Imperial Japan was, they can't be said to be inherently violent. And chinese genocide their own people more than foreigners. The Ming dynasty treated foreigners and especially muslims very well. When Sad ibn Waqqas visited Tang China, the Tang emperor built a mosque out of respect for the travelling muslim dignitaries. Chinese dynasties have always been gracious to well-meaning foreigners - a complete opposite to the Europeans.

The famous Barbary raiders captains were of European descent. Barbarossa was son of Albanian and Greek converts, Yusuf Reis(Jack Ward) was English convert, Murat Reis (Jan Janszoon) was Dutch, Suleiman Reis(De Veenboer) was also dutch. So don't blame us.

The truth is more important than feelings, 11 million of my people died under British rule, I am not going to make the same mistake of my ancestors with the "kind", "liberal" routine.

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The biggest problem in the west is that people simply don't understand Islam--it is mysterious, and this can lead to misunderstandings.

Are you really going to make me post the various enlightened quotes of Western politicians about blacks, chinese, "the japs", indians, native americans, aboriginals, etc. Because that would be another can of worms.

This is down to the ancient greek philosophy of considering everyone else as barbarians, a concept Europeans took to heart. Full credit though, atleast you learnt something from your ancestors. Most muslims don't know 80% of their own history. We are a ridiculous people.

[Silas]

When did I say that. I said they are by far the the most brutal. I would upload some pictures but that would be problematic for the forum. But to reiterate, no one carries two heads and smiles for te picture. No one else in this entire world revels in inflicting pain and suffering so much. Others do for their self interests. Europeans do because this is their entertainment.

Are you seriously comparing Islamic conquests with Western imperialism? I promise you there would be ZERO Greeks, ZERO Spanish, ZERO Portuguese, ZERO Serbians, ZERO Romanians if muslims adopted the same policy of extermination as the European imperialists did. There are Coptics, Marionites, Persians, etc still in muslim countries. What happened to Andalusian Berber muslims? What happened to the muslims in Greece, Bulgaria, etc?

Islamic conquests were the most benevolent in history. There is no other that mirrored its tolerance to people that were literally trying to kill them before.

Yes Aztecs were warlike, no one denies that. That doesn't give Europeans any right to attack and invade their territory. Say what happened to the "Europe belongs to Europeans" thing?

And even expect for that, what did the Incas, Iroquis, Cherokee, Sioux, Mayans do? Infact there was a treaty between USA and Natives on borders, a treaty USA violated time and time again (Israel anyone?).

Japanese were isonlationists for most of their history, so as brutal as Imperial Japan was, they can't be said to be inherently violent. And chinese genocide their own people more than foreigners. The Ming dynasty treated foreigners and especially muslims very well. When Sad ibn Waqqas visited Tang China, the Tang emperor built a mosque out of respect for the travelling muslim dignitaries. Chinese dynasties have always been gracious to well-meaning foreigners - a complete opposite to the Europeans.

The famous Barbary raiders captains were of European descent. Barbarossa was son of Albanian and Greek converts, Yusuf Reis(Jack Ward) was English convert, Murat Reis (Jan Janszoon) was Dutch, Suleiman Reis(De Veenboer) was also dutch. So don't blame us.

The truth is more important than feelings, 11 million of my people died under British rule, I am not going to make the same mistake of my ancestors with the "kind", "liberal" routine.

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Are you really going to make me post the various enlightened quotes of Western politicians about blacks, chinese, "the japs", indians, native americans, aboriginals, etc. Because that would be another can of worms.

This is down to the ancient greek philosophy of considering everyone else as barbarians, a concept Europeans took to heart. Full credit though, atleast you learnt something from your ancestors. Most muslims don't know 80% of their own history. We are a ridiculous people.

I white Europeans are the barbaric animals you make them out to be, why are so many Muslims settling in western nations? Why are so many enjoying the security, welfare, and opportunities afforded by places like Germany, Sweden, or even Britain? Are you going to say Muslims and refugees have not been accepted by western governments with open arms?

We don't live in the 19th century--European nations are not violently colonizing places like Africa and the Middle-East. Muslims are the mayors of numerous European cities, including London and Birmingham.

There is nothing benevolent about conquest. Some are worse than others, but they are still violent. No one is making excuses for Europe's dark history of imperialism and war, but to say that other nations and peoples haven't engaged in their own conquests and oppressions is absurd.

Even on a smaller scale, Sunnis were engaging in massacres of Shias in India in the last few decades. Muslims have been killing each other almost non-stop since 1979, as Saudi-Arabia and Iran fight proxy wars throughout the middle-east. Christians, Yazidi, and others were butchered in Syria by ISIS and other radical groups that came out of the Wahhabist tradition. We don't need to go back in history to see crimes against humanity, that stuff is going on right now.

The problem isn't just "white supremacy" or western Imperialism, it is also radical, violent fundamentalism, and corrupt regimes deliberately fanning sectarian and ethnic hatred in order to hold on to power.

[beleiver]

White Europeans have been invaded, oppressed and genocided by white Europeans too, we are not all the same, color of our skin is about as re;evant as eye colour.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Another update

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Statement of Islamic Emirate concerning attack on two mosques in New Zealand

It is with great sadness to have learnt that an attack took place against worshippers at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, during Friday prayers resulting in the martyrdom of 49 Muslims and injuries to many others.

The Islamic Emirate condemns this incident in the strongest terms. Attacking innocent worshipers is a sign of absolute hatred and an unforgivable crime.

We express our deepest sympathy with the families of victims and pray for Jannah (Paradise) for the martyrs and urgent recovery for the wounded.

We are learning of this tragic incident as mosques and homes are bombed and many civilians are losing their lives in our country every day at the hands of the invaders and stooge Kabul administration forces.

We ask the government of New Zealand to prevent the repeat of such occurrences, to carry out a comprehensive investigation to find root of cause of such terrorism and hand a hefty punishment to the attackers.

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan

08/07/1440 Hijri Lunar

24/12/1397 Hijri Solar 15/03/2019 Gregorian

https://justpaste.it/73w7c

More praise for New Zealand's political class.

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[Serinity]

The PM and the kiwis were very quick to condemn the attacks and support the Muslim community that were the target of it

Thank you kiwis for showing solidarity towards Muslims who were the victims of this attack. All attacks on masjids, churches or synagogues are completely unacceptable.

I rly like ur PM, she has shown great compassion as a human being! May Allah protect us and protect us from such things happening again, be it against muslims, as in this case, or Jews/ Christians.

I am against all types of attacks against civilians and as such condemn, of course, the attacks in the netherlands, too.

Those who do not thank the people, have not thanked Allah, the Creator. Am I right?

[CuriousonTruth]

White Europeans have been invaded, oppressed and genocided by white Europeans too, we are not all the same, color of our skin is about as re;evant as eye colour.

While that is true, that actually makes it worse because it destroys the whole White nationalist narrative of a peaceful, prosperous white european homeland before it was "invaded" by blacks, browns and the jews. Hitler killed more Poles in one war than muslims did over the centuries.

[beleiver]

While that is true, that actually makes it worse because it destroys the whole White nationalist narrative of a peaceful, prosperous white european homeland before it was "invaded" by blacks, browns and the jews. Hitler killed more Poles in one war than muslims did over the centuries.

Like all satanic cults, the white nationalist/ fascist argument should be easy to destroy by any genuine Truth seeker...
They claim to be one thing while they are the opposite of that thing, what they accuse the enemy they are most guilty of them selves...Hitler claimed he was a socialist, first they came for the Socialists.....so the famous poem writen in a concentration camp by an ex Nazi goes
By deception they wage war and Truth is always the first victim of war.

[CuriousonTruth]

The PM and the kiwis were very quick to condemn the attacks and support the Muslim community that were the target of it

Thank you kiwis for showing solidarity towards Muslims who were the victims of this attack. All attacks on masjids, churches or synagogues are completely unacceptable.

I rly like ur PM, she has shown great compassion as a human being! May Allah protect us and protect us from such things happening again, be it against muslims, as in this case, or Jews/ Christians.

I am against all types of attacks against civilians and as such condemn, of course, the attacks in the netherlands, too.

Those who do not thank the people, have not thanked Allah, the Creator. Am I right?

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/ne...eadscarf-25130

Spoke too soon?

[MazharShafiq]

The Islamic Emirate condemns this incident in the strongest terms. Attacking innocent worshipers is a sign of absolute hatred and an unforgivable crime.

[Serinity]

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/ne...eadscarf-25130

Spoke too soon?

Yeah, I spoke too soon.

As long as they keep attacking our deen, these kind of attacks will keep happening.

Banning the headscarf means u hate Islam.

I can't believe this kind of bigotry is going unnoticed against muslims especially after being targetted for mass murder by someone spewing Anti-Muslim bigotry.

Islamophobia should be treated with the same utmost seriousness as Anti-semitism. This will bring about genocide to Muslims. There needs to be laws against Islamophobia!

[Silas]

Yeah, I spoke too soon.

As long as they keep attacking our deen, these kind of attacks will keep happening.

Banning the headscarf means u hate Islam.

I can't believe this kind of bigotry is going unnoticed against muslims especially after being targetted for mass murder by someone spewing Anti-Muslim bigotry.

Islamophobia should be treated with the same utmost seriousness as Anti-semitism. This will bring about genocide to Muslims. There needs to be laws against Islamophobia!

That is an Anglican (religious) school.

While I don't agree with banning hijabs, I don't see how this is particularly controversial, or an attack on the deen.

What would happen if a Catholic student tried to go to an Islamic school in Egypt? Better yet, what if she wore a big crucifix around her neck? Would that school have a right to deny her admittance, or tell her to hide the religious symbol?

And I think we need to remember that westerners aren't even allowed in Saudi Arabia for the most part.

You can expect compassion and accommodation when you, too, provide it.

[AbdurRahman.]

As I suspected.

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Nazism is the Zion's tool.

The World Zionist congress had cooperated with the Nazi movement. No jew in Europe wanted to go and live in the Middle East and the religious jews opposed creation of Israel as a heresy. The Zionists helped Nazis to bypass the economic embargoes in turn of kicking out jews from Europe (who in turn would go to Palestine and US) while killing the religious, orthodox jews.

And even today, the far-right is funded entirely by Zionists. Lol Wilders in one year spent more time in Israeli embassy than elsewhere.

There's all sorts of conspiracy theories brother and if we pay heed to them all we'll loose the sense of reality

One theory however is proven with solid evidence and that is that the jews yield the most power over western politics and they are actively implementing multiculturalism in order to crush white supremacy

[Serinity]

That is an Anglican (religious) school.

While I don't agree with banning hijabs, I don't see how this is particularly controversial, or an attack on the deen.

What would happen if a Catholic student tried to go to an Islamic school in Egypt? Better yet, what if she wore a big crucifix around her neck? Would that school have a right to deny her admittance, or tell her to hide the religious symbol?

And I think we need to remember that westerners aren't even allowed in Saudi Arabia for the most part.

You can expect compassion and accommodation when you, too, provide it.

Well, I dont know why a Muslim would go to a catholic school.. and idk why a Christian would go to an Islamic School. Those are exceptions.

I meant in public schools, to allow muslims to practice their religion as well as Jews/Christians.

Dont get me wrong, I do appreciate the outpouring of support for the Muslims in NZ - Thank you, but that comes with actions too.

I hope in the wake of these attacks we all see the disease of Islamophobia and start to combat it.

No group of humans deserve to be mass slaughtered like that in their place of worship. In this case, a masjid...

Arabia is an exception. I am sorry if I offended you.

[Silas]

Well, I dont know why a Muslim would go to a catholic school.. and idk why a Christian would go to an Islamic School. Those are exceptions.

I meant in public schools, to allow muslims to practice their religion as well as Jews/Christians.

Dont get me wrong, I do appreciate the outpouring of support for the Muslims in NZ - Thank you, but that comes with actions too.

I hope in the wake of these attacks we all see the disease of Islamophobia and start to combat it.

No group of humans deserve to be mass slaughtered like that in their place of worship. In this case, a masjid...

Arabia is an exception. I am sorry if I offended you.

Muslims should be able to wear the hijab in public school (or even the niqab). I think most people agree on that.

Some Muslims attend Christian schools in the west, because these schools might offer a better education. I personally think the Muslims should be able to wear the hijab there too, but the administration might be more strict in an effort to preserve the school's Christian character. If it is a private, religious institution, they can set the rules, just as an Islamic school could.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Another update

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[CuriousonTruth]

There's all sorts of conspiracy theories brother and if we pay heed to them all we'll loose the sense of reality

One theory however is proven with solid evidence and that is that the jews yield the most power over western politics and they are actively implementing multiculturalism in order to crush white supremacy

lol no that's nonsense. It's best if you don't pay attention to Russian and white nationalist propaganda.

Modern West was made to a large extent by jews themselves. When Ottomans sieged Vienna in 1683, one Jew named Samuel Oppenheimer spent massive funds to provide supplies to the garrison in Vienna that allowed them to survive till the Polish army came to attack the Ottomans.

Quran 5:51

O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

And Samuel Oppenheimer was the mentor of Mayer Amschel Rothschild, who later went on to establish the richest family in history.

Europe wouldn't be as economically strong without its jewish patrons that have kept it alive and strong. Every European country is massively in debt to sustain their high living standards. USA has $13 trillion is debt and this will keep rising.

My further suggestion is that don't listen to Imran Hossein and the sort.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Good discussion.

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'Bad guys' taking advantage.

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Perspective from the right.

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Muslim perspectives.

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[AbdurRahman.]

lol no that's nonsense. It's best if you don't pay attention to Russian and white nationalist propaganda.

Modern West was made to a large extent by jews themselves. When Ottomans sieged Vienna in 1683, one Jew named Samuel Oppenheimer spent massive funds to provide supplies to the garrison in Vienna that allowed them to survive till the Polish army came to attack the Ottomans.

Quran 5:51

O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

And Samuel Oppenheimer was the mentor of Mayer Amschel Rothschild, who later went on to establish the richest family in history.

Europe wouldn't be as economically strong without its jewish patrons that have kept it alive and strong. Every European country is massively in debt to sustain their high living standards. USA has $13 trillion is debt and this will keep rising.

My further suggestion is that don't listen to Imran Hossein and the sort.

Lol it's not Russian propaganda. Hitler wiped out 6 million jews right? And there is a minority of white neo nazi presence all over the West and we've seen the white masses can be manipulated to vote for them ... so it makes sense that Jews would want to get rid of white racism by making them used to a multi cultural society as they wouldn't want to risk another holocaust

And it's not only about preventing a holocaust, white supremacists resent the fact that Jews pull the strings of their governments and reemergence of nazism will overthrow the power of jews

And I've seen untold evidences for it too but don't want to get into all of that so let's leave it and be careful of being carried away by crackpot conspiracy theories out there

[CuriousonTruth]

Lol it not Russian propaganda. Hitler wiped out 6 million jews right? And there is a minority of white neo nazi presence all over the West and we've seen the white masses can be manipulated to vote for them ... so it's makes sense that Jews would want to get rid of white racism by making them used to a multi cultural society as they wouldn't want to risk another holocaust

And it's not only about preventing a holocaust, white supremacists resent the fact that Jews pull the strings of their governments and reemergence of nazism will overthrow the power of jews

And I've seen untold evidences for it too but don't want to get into all of that so let's leave it and be careful of being carried away by crackpot conspiracy theories out there

No that's not entirely correct. Hitler and the other right-wingers deported the majority of the secular, educated jews in cooperation with world zionist congress, in return for bypassing economic embargoes placed on Germany by the Allies. It was mainly the poorer, religious jews who were religious and useless to the Zionist cause left behind for the Nazis to do as they like.

I understand it is very easy for certain muslims to fall through the white nationalist rabbit-hole because of Israel and the action of the jews there. But Israel exists BECAUSE of the Zionists' cooperation with Nazis, otherwise they'd be stuck in Tel Aviv and wouldn't be able to expand.

[azc]

50 lives, 50 untold stories - To the fallen victims of Christchurch:
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/44...0%2C5122413816

[Neithan]

I think we all have to carefully look at our own hearts. As a son of white Europeans I can honestly say that I do not want Islam to be the majority religion or culture in Europe. I want it to be Christian. But that is not racist. If they are Arab Christians, praise God. That said, His Will is almighty and it is much better for Europe to become Muslim than to sink into immoral atheism, which is what is happening. Also, this terrorist was a racist, not a Christian. He wants Europe to stay white, which is stupid. We all come from Africa anyway.

[Serinity]

https://youtu.be/zcng-tMzTHY

Great support from the PM, I wish I had her as leader in the country I live in..

May Allah bless New Zealand with sincerity, goodness and mercy. May Allah bless the PM with guidance and the whole nation too. Ameen.

Such great solidarity I wish I had in Denmark.

[fschmidt]

Authorities must have an active role in eliminating the tree of hate that's being fed by islamophobic terrorists all over the social media.

This is totally wrong. I am horrified at how Muslims are reacting, they are getting everything wrong. The most reasonable responses have been from white nationalists themselves, and I am not white, so I am not on their side. Most white nationalists have condemned this shooting. Unlike Muslims, they understand who the real enemy is. The real enemy is the alliance of liberalism and judaism. They understand that Islam is not their enemy. Muslims should understand that white nationalists are not their enemy either. This shooter no more represents white nationalists than Muslim terrorists represent Islam. Sane Muslims should ally with white nationalists against liberalism and judaism. White nationalists just want some place of their own. I wouldn't be welcome there and neither would others here. So what? I wouldn't want to go there anyway. But that shouldn't prevent an alliance against the real source of evil - liberalism and judaism.

This rant was prompted by the Jumah talk I heard today praising the reaction of New Zealand. That's insane because that is exactly what the shooter wanted. In fact here are quotes from his manifesto:

"Why did you carry out the attack?"

...

"To agitate the political enemies of my people into action, to cause them to overextend their own hand and experience the eventual and inevitable backlash as a result."

"To incite violence, retaliation and further divide between the European people and the invaders currently occupying European soil."


In short, the call for a crackdown on white nationalists because of this shooting is exactly analogous to a call for a crackdown on Islam because of a Muslim terrorist attack.

[Serinity]

But dont white nationalists hate all non whites and hate Islam?

What is a white nationalist anyway?

Someone who wants an all white nation even if it means to do genocide because we have blacks?

It is racist and dumb to believe that Islam is the religion of arabs, it is the religion for every color.

[fschmidt]

But dont white nationalists hate all non whites and hate Islam?

No, they just don't want live with other races. And they don't seem to really care about religion.

What is a white nationalist anyway?

Glad you asked. Here is an idiot interviewing a white nationalist followed by his explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFh1H_wDSEI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZa4dhxZObg

Someone who wants an all white nation even if it means to do genocide because we have blacks?

White nationalists are not Nazis. They don't want to genocide anyone. They just want their own racist safe space.

I discussed this at my mosque last Saturday. I was told that there are some Muslim Arab tribes that have their own land and don't intermarry. This is exactly the same as what white nationalists want, and it is part of Islam.

[beleiver]

White nationalists are not compatible with Islam unless the Muslims make a pledge of shirk and happen to be white...Many popular white nationalists with massive followings on social media have made it clear they do not want to live in peace with Islam, but are OK with Saudis style Islam and if that's Islam then I am Jesus Christ.

[Ahmed.]

This is totally wrong. I am horrified at how Muslims are reacting, they are getting everything wrong. The most reasonable responses have been from white nationalists themselves, and I am not white, so I am not on their side. Most white nationalists have condemned this shooting. Unlike Muslims, they understand who the real enemy is. The real enemy is the alliance of liberalism and judaism. They understand that Islam is not their enemy. Muslims should understand that white nationalists are not their enemy either. This shooter no more represents white nationalists than Muslim terrorists represent Islam. Sane Muslims should ally with white nationalists against liberalism and judaism. White nationalists just want some place of their own. I wouldn't be welcome there and neither would others here. So what? I wouldn't want to go there anyway. But that shouldn't prevent an alliance against the real source of evil - liberalism and judaism.

This rant was prompted by the Jumah talk I heard today praising the reaction of New Zealand. That's insane because that is exactly what the shooter wanted. In fact here are quotes from his manifesto:

"Why did you carry out the attack?"

...

"To agitate the political enemies of my people into action, to cause them to overextend their own hand and experience the eventual and inevitable backlash as a result."

"To incite violence, retaliation and further divide between the European people and the invaders currently occupying European soil."


In short, the call for a crackdown on white nationalists because of this shooting is exactly analogous to a call for a crackdown on Islam because of a Muslim terrorist attack.

White nationalists (the far right) are our enemies. It's us (and all other non-whites) they don't want in 'their' countries. Yes, uptil before this attack, their attacks have been on government targets (except 1997 attack on Brixton blacks and a gay pub and brick lane Asians), however it was only a matter of time before we were targeted as in their view, it achieves one of their goals in making us want to leave these countries and not want to come here.

And in the words of that monster, "it depletes our numbers"

Far right groups like BNP, Britain first and edl have all marched against Muslims and are constantly hstemongering/inciting violence against us, so it beats me how someone can be so deluded to say that we are not their enemy.

In the grand scheme of things, the jews are their main enemy and we are the pawns, but enemies too nonetheless!

Who would you say are the most moderate white nationalists?, UKIP?, Well they've just recruited the vicious racist yob tommy robinson as their political advisor!

[fschmidt]

White nationalists are not compatible with Islam unless the Muslims make a pledge of shirk and happen to be white...Many popular white nationalists with massive followings on social media have made it clear they do not want to live in peace with Islam, but are OK with Saudis style Islam and if that's Islam then I am Jesus Christ.

Evidence please.

[CuriousonTruth]

White nationalists are not compatible with Islam unless the Muslims make a pledge of shirk and happen to be white...Many popular white nationalists with massive followings on social media have made it clear they do not want to live in peace with Islam, but are OK with Saudis style Islam and if that's Islam then I am Jesus Christ.

Saying white nationalists are compatible with islam is the most hilarious thing I have seen. Europe and Islamic empires have been at war for 1400 years and are still enemies. And even without the wars and deep enmity, the philosophies these two groups hold, the approach to life are completely opposite of each other (individualism-european philosophy vs Collectivism- Islamic Philosophy). So at a cultural and social level, they are against each other and insult each other's cultures and lifestyles.

[ardianto]

Saying white nationalists are compatible with islam is the most hilarious thing I have seen. Europe and Islamic empires have been at war for 1400 years and are still enemies. And even without the wars and deep enmity, the philosophies these two groups hold, the approach to life are completely opposite of each other (individualism-european philosophy vs Collectivism- Islamic Philosophy). So at a cultural and social level, they are against each other and insult each other's cultures and lifestyles.

Islam does not teach collectivism or individualism, also Islamic culture actually does not exist since Islam is religion, not product of culture. What you describe as "Islam" in your post actually is "East".

Please, differentiate between religion and culture.

[Serinity]

A culture that 100% follows sharia, is Islamic.. Just like how if an empire follows Shariah 100%, it is an Islamic Empire.

That is not to say that Islam is a culture, it is not.

so: culture =/= Islam.

Please correct me if I said anything wrong :)

[CuriousonTruth]

Islam does not teach collectivism or individualism, also Islamic culture actually does not exist since Islam is religion, not product of culture. What you describe as "Islam" in your post actually is "East".

Please, differentiate between religion and culture.

You are wrong.

Al-Nu’man ibn Bashir reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The parable of the believers in their affection, mercy, and compassion for each other is that of a body. When any limb aches, the whole body reacts with sleeplessness and fever.”

The fact that Islam emphasizes on the entire group as one, rather than emphasizing on the individual like Western philosophy enshrines.

Religion heavily dictates culture just like ideology, I don't think I need to explain this further. For example Islam heavily influenced culture of both hindus and muslims of the subcontinent. Hindus adopted many conservative values (that you see still now) from Islam, before Islam, hinduism and hindu indian culture was a very liberal culture and society.

[beleiver]

Evidence please.

Evidence for white nationalists declaring they don't want to live in peace with Islam? I should have said the 'moderate' ones, there are many that say they want to wipe Islam off the face of the earth...I don't have the time or stomach to trawl through their propaganda channels to find the evidence (If one person's opinion is evidence) one springs to mind is youtuber and regular at speakers corner Ali Dawa interview with Laura southern where she clearly says she doesn't want to live in peace with Islam...

Or evidence I am Jesus Christ and the Arab nationalists in Saudi propagate True Islam? lol

May Allah alone guide you to Truth.

Saying white nationalists are compatible with islam is the most hilarious thing I have seen. Europe and Islamic empires have been at war for 1400 years and are still enemies. And even without the wars and deep enmity, the philosophies these two groups hold, the approach to life are completely opposite of each other (individualism-european philosophy vs Collectivism- Islamic Philosophy). So at a cultural and social level, they are against each other and insult each other's cultures and lifestyles.

Europe is a continent the people of Europe is different and seldom have rulers of Europe represented its people, while the rulers of Europe were waging their crusader wars against Islam they were also waging wars of genocide on the people of Europe which never really ended, though it's more of a psychological war these days...
My take is the people of Europe mostly want to live in peace but is confused about how to achieve it, as the hour approaches the end of times, the shadow of Satan is blinding in its darkness, everything becomes grey...I would say Europe in general supports both individualism and collectivism, it's both liberal and authoritarian, its a confused place heading to totalitarianism by design and i am sure we can agree Totalitarianism which involves idol worship is NOT compatible with Islam...
In this casino debt slavery gulag, the need for revolutionary change is inevitable, the elite want to remain elite so they shine their light on the counter-revolution which was commonly and historically known as Fascism, which has been gently pushed into the weak minds of Europeans now for decades, which stems from the Times of Roman crusaders and those pagans that twisted and distorted the true teachings of Christ.

But what peoples hearts Truly desire is peace, which is Islam, but Islam is in the darkest part of Satans shadow, few can see what it Truly is...The big Problem is, Islam and the Islamic world is just as much in this shadow and by design just as confused...

May Allah and Him alone Guide us all...And those that profess Islam shine the light of compassion, mercy and goodwill from their hearts to help the blind see Truth.

[Silas]

I don't think the western world and Islam are "at war"

that sounds like Wahhabist extremist nonsense. What are they teaching in the mosques these days?

Now there are some in the western world who believe this as well, but they are wrong

[Ahmed.]

Salaam

Another update

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MaashAllah I love New Zealanders! They are humble and have proper respect for all religions and cultures.

They also never wiped out the Maori's when they invaded New Zealand unlike their counterparts in Australia and America, so that says something about the descendants of the early settlers.

[CuriousonTruth]

I don't think the western world and Islam are "at war"

that sounds like Wahhabist extremist nonsense. What are they teaching in the mosques these days?

Now there are some in the western world who believe this as well, but they are wrong

You mean the multi-million dollar anti-islam industry doesn't exist? Islam is just the latest in line of many of Europe's culling chopping block, we are following the same path as Native Americans, Aboriginals.

[fschmidt]

White nationalists (the far right) are our enemies. It's us (and all other non-whites) they don't want in 'their' countries.

So what? What is wrong with some whites wanting their own countries as long as they leave other people alone? That is much less harmful than liberalism and judaism which promotes corruption and undermines good governments all over the world.

Yes, uptil before this attack, their attacks have been on government targets (except 1997 attack on Brixton blacks and a gay pub and brick lane Asians), however it was only a matter of time before we were targeted as in their view, it achieves one of their goals in making us want to leave these countries and not want to come here.

Here you are equating white terrorists with white nationanism, which no different from equating Muslim terrorists with Islam.

Far right groups like BNP, Britain first and edl have all marched against Muslims and are constantly hstemongering/inciting violence against us, so it beats me how someone can be so deluded to say that we are not their enemy.

In the grand scheme of things, the jews are their main enemy and we are the pawns, but enemies too nonetheless!

Who would you say are the most moderate white nationalists?, UKIP?, Well they've just recruited the vicious racist yob tommy robinson as their political advisor!

"Moderate" is the wrong word. In an insane world, anyone who is sane will be considered an extremist. That applies equally to Islam and to white nationalism. Here are 2 sane white nationalists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ozrpk_eyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SHYAOD78kw

[Serinity]

Anyone who supports genocide and mass murder of muslims in anyway don't have any right to free speech. More like abuse of speech.

It is simple, those kind of attacks need action against by execution of those who do it, and those who celebrae/encourage it.

White nationalists are racists, that is what they are.

I dont care if europe is overrun by arabs or africans, colour doesn't matter.

Only a man depraved of any humanity would kill ppl while defenceless and innocent

[fschmidt]

Everyone should have a right to free speech, even Muhammad in Mecca.

I am trying to organize a discussion between an intelligent Muslim and a white nationalist for YouTube. If I can do this, I will post it here.

[CuriousonTruth]

Attachment 6655

Presenting to you Daily Mail readers.

- - - Updated - - -

So what? What is wrong with some whites wanting their own countries as long as they leave other people alone?

That would be a valid point if you were a hermit Japanese sitting tightly in his island without a care for the world.

But the West models itself as a beacon of human rights, and when any country does not meet those "human rights" requirements that country gets bombed, hundreds of thousands killed, or just fund an army coup against the government like in Egypt, Algeria, Chile, etc. And all of this using human rights casus belli.

And it's not just government, whenever any society rejects your "enlightened" (read: degenerate, animalistic, hedonistic, filth-ridden) culture to protect their own culture, your people denounces that said people by calling them backward, barbarian, third world sand n******. Your NGOs and government works overtime to promote radical feminism, homosexuality, etc to destroy our traditions, religion and family. Europeans aim to convert the world into your "superior" culture, and it's convert or die. And yet on top of that, it's the muslims who are supposedly the intolerant ones.

So yeah you people should definitely have people from other races, risk of looking more barbaric, intolerant than us muzzlums, don't want that do we?

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ozrpk_eyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SHYAOD78kw

The idea of no censorship is hilarious. There is a limit and censorship to everything. French for example had practiced a massive censorship campaign against Protestantism and killed many protestants. This was to protect Catholicism. Censorship to keep the status quo, it is practiced by those who are in power, and free speech is called for by those who are out of power.

There is no right/left difference. The right-wing governments in poland, hungary and russia practice anti-liberal, anti-left censorship with m,uch more brutal methodology. So yeah, no need to play victim here.

Besides the very idea of forcing assimilation of non-whites into white culture is also censorship. It is censoring other cultures in favour of European culture because of the fear that those cultures may overpower European culture.

[Ahmed.]

So what? What is wrong with some whites wanting their own countries as long as they leave other people alone? That is much less harmful than liberalism and judaism which promotes corruption and undermines good governments all over the world.


Here you are equating white terrorists with white nationanism, which no different from equating Muslim terrorists with Islam.


"Moderate" is the wrong word. In an insane world, anyone who is sane will be considered an extremist. That applies equally to Islam and to white nationalism. Here are 2 sane white nationalists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ozrpk_eyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SHYAOD78kw

What's wrong with white nationalism?; here's what's wrong:

Far-right politics are politics further on the right of the left-right spectrum than the standard political right, particularly in terms of extreme nationalism,[1][2] nativist ideologies, and authoritarian tendencies.[3]

The term is often used to describe Nazism,[4] neo-Nazism, fascism, neo-fascism and other ideologies or organizations that feature ultranationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, anti-communist, or reactionary views.[5] These can lead to oppression and violence against groups of people based on their supposed inferiority, or their perceived threat to the native ethnic group,[6][7] nation, state[8] or ultraconservative traditional social institutions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics


so, you are saying they have a right to kick non-whites out of western countries?, if this is ok then there's nothing wrong with it but I can't see how anyone other than an oppressive racist will think it's ok

And the comparison to Islam isn't correct as Islam is a religion of peace. White nationalism is racism and racism is a belligerent hateful injustice to other humans so it cannot be equal to peace

[Ahmed.]

So what? What is wrong with some whites wanting their own countries as long as they leave other people alone? That is much less harmful than liberalism and judaism which promotes corruption and undermines good governments all over the world.


Here you are equating white terrorists with white nationanism, which no different from equating Muslim terrorists with Islam.


"Moderate" is the wrong word. In an insane world, anyone who is sane will be considered an extremist. That applies equally to Islam and to white nationalism. Here are 2 sane white nationalists:

I gave a reply but it's still in moderation so I'll give you a basic summary here;

White nationalism is racism and racism cannot be peaceful as it's an oppressive hate towards your fellow man just because he's a different colour. It also seeks to uproot millions of non-white people from their countries and expel them to somewhere else which is oppressive too.

How can there not be anything wrong with that?

Due to the belligerent hateful nature of racism, white nationalists are called the 'far right', 'far' stands for being too much on the right, I.e. too extreme, this is why the far right are equated to nazism and fascism:

Far-right politics are politics further on the right of the left-right spectrum than the standard political right, particularly in terms of extreme nationalism,[1][2] nativist ideologies, and authoritarian tendencies.[3]

The term is often used to describe Nazism,[4] neo-Nazism, fascism, neo-fascism and other ideologies or organizations that feature ultranationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, anti-communist, or reactionary views.[5] These can lead to oppression and violence against groups of people based on their supposed inferiority, or their perceived threat to the native ethnic group,[6][7] nation, state[8] or ultraconservative traditional social institutions.[9]

Ref: Look up 'far right politics' on Wikipedia

Also far right groups have secret neo Nazi affiliations and this is well known to the authorities, this is why if a far right activist gets too popular for the government's liking, they will take him/her down; check out how France's le penn faces 5 years in jail for posting isis images and how tommy robinson is facing further prosection over contempt of court laws, both minor breaches which they could overlook if they wanted to.

[fschmidt]

I gave a reply but it's still in moderation so I'll give you a basic summary here;

White nationalism is racism and racism cannot be peaceful as it's an oppressive hate towards your fellow man just because he's a different colour. It also seeks to uproot millions of non-white people from their countries and expel them to somewhere else which is oppressive too.

How can there not be anything wrong with that?

Due to the belligerent hateful nature of racism, white nationists are called the 'far right', 'far' stands for being too much on the right, I.e. too extreme, this is why the far right are equated to nazism and fascism:

Far-right politics are politics further on the right of the left-right spectrum than the standard political right, particularly in terms of extreme nationalism,[1][2] nativist ideologies, and authoritarian tendencies.[3]

The term is often used to describe Nazism,[4] neo-Nazism, fascism, neo-fascism and other ideologies or organizations that feature ultranationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, anti-communist, or reactionary views.[5] These can lead to oppression and violence against groups of people based on their supposed inferiority, or their perceived threat to the native ethnic group,[6][7] nation, state[8] or ultraconservative traditional social institutions.[9]

Ref: Look up 'far right politics' on Wikipedia

Also far right groups have secret neo Nazi affiliations and this is well known to the authorities, this is why if a far right activist gets too popular for the government's liking, they will take him/her down; check out how France's le penn faces 5 years in jail for posting isis images and how tommy robinson is facing further prosection over contempt of court laws, both minor breaches which they could overlook if they wanted to.

I personally reject racism but I don't see it as a big problem. Racism doesn't imply hatred of anyone, it just means that people want to live with their own race. Just because I only allow my family to live in my house doesn't mean that I hate everyone who isn't a member of my family.

Here in America white nationalists just want to split up the country and have some portion of it as a white nation. I have nothing against this. Europe is more problematic because it is more densely populated. I don't know the situation there well enough to say what should happen.

Muhammad supported the idea of being loyal to one's extended family, and racism could be considered an extension of this idea. As I mentioned, there are Arab Muslim tribes that don't intermarry and have their own area, and are therefore racist in the same way that white nationalists are. And Islam has no problem with this.

Anything that differs significantly from the mainstream is considered extremist or far-whatever. I am sure that the Quraysh considered Muhammad to be an extremist and tried to suppress his free speech in Mecca for this reason, just as mainstream culture today does with views it doesn't like.

White nationalists today are not Nazis. This is just a slur used against them.

[Silas]

I think we need to understand where some of this White Nationalist ideology comes from and why people are embracing it

As a white guy in the west, I am reminded almost daily that I am inherently some kind of vicious, genocidal racist and misogynist, simply because of the color of my skin. Furthermore, I am told that what I have earned is a result of "privilege", and that this privilege is a consequence of oppressing minorities.

In other words, if you demonize people long enough, they are going to start pushing back. They are going to get frustrated, especially when many of them have bent over backwards trying to appease, or help in some way, minority groups, Muslims, or the less fortunate. It is never enough: Sweden welcomes thousands of refugees and economic migrants into their country, and yet we have Islamic terrorist attacks in that country, and a rape epidemic that isn't a result of the native population's behavior. We have migrants accepting generous welfare from western nations and then turning around and calling the people who gave them the money "kafirs" or "infidels".

Now this situation is particular to Europe for the most part: Muslim immigrants get along pretty well in the US with the native population.

But when westerners turn on their televisions and see terrorist atrocities happening on an almost weekly basis around the world, it makes an impression.

Fact: Muslims are far safer in western countries than in Middle-Eastern

Fact: you are far more likely to get killed by a fellow Muslim than some lone-wolf, crazy white guy.

People in the west start embracing White Nationalism out of frustration, and in some cases rage. It is less about racism, and more about a reactionary impulse.

For people who think white guys are in power in the US, I would look a little further to see who owns virtually all the major banks and financial institutions, the Hollywood studios, 50% of the professional sports teams, and most of the Silicon Valley firms. Who owns Google and Facebook? It isn't white guys--it's Jews, and some of them foreign born. 40% of the Fortune 400, the richest people in the whole world, are Jewish, even though they are a tiny minority. Trump is controlled by Kushner and his Jewish handlers. AIPAC pretty much determines who becomes president.

Here in Illinois, our governor is a Jewish billionaire (Pritzker), and the Mayor of Chicago is also Jewish (Emmanuel). The average household income for a Jewish family in the US is double that of whites (whites come in behind Asians and Indians as well).

So when White Nationalist complain about Jewish influence and power, can we really tell them that they are wrong? George Soros almost single-handedly wrecked the British economy when he shorted the Pound. These are dangerous people with large amounts of political, social, and financial power.

Jews tell whites that we must allow refugees into our countries and allow Muslims and others to live within our borders, but Israel either expels people with brown skin from the country (which they did recently to Africans), or they put Palestinians and other Muslims into camps or ghettos.

I don't know of a single white person who wants the US to be involved in the Middle-East on any kind of military level. Many whites are actually somewhat sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

"Racism" is a leftist slogan used by Jews and others to silence criticism.

Would it be racist for an Arab living in Damascus to object to a plan that involved settling 50,000 white Christians in the city? Would it be racist for a Muslim living in Cairo to become concerned if a militant Christian was elected mayor of the city? Would it be racist for Muslims to worry about the sudden appearance of Christian churches in which sermons were given denouncing the people of other faiths as sub-human infidels, and urging violence against them?

There could be a racist element to it, but these are legitimate fears and concerns.

When you tell white people that they are not allowed to have their own countries, and cannot speak in their self-interest, you invite problems.

[anatolian]

I personally reject racism but I don't see it as a big problem. Racism doesn't imply hatred of anyone, it just means that people want to live with their own race. Just because I only allow my family to live in my house doesn't mean that I hate everyone who isn't a member of my family.

Here in America white nationalists just want to split up the country and have some portion of it as a white nation. I have nothing against this. Europe is more problematic because it is more densely populated. I don't know the situation there well enough to say what should happen.

Muhammad supported the idea of being loyal to one's extended family, and racism could be considered an extension of this idea. As I mentioned, there are Arab Muslim tribes that don't intermarry and have their own area, and are therefore racist in the same way that white nationalists are. And Islam has no problem with this.

Anything that differs significantly from the mainstream is considered extremist or far-whatever. I am sure that the Quraysh considered Muhammad to be an extremist and tried to suppress his free speech in Mecca for this reason, just as mainstream culture today does with views it doesn't like.

White nationalists today are not Nazis. This is just a slur used against them.

Islam does not confirm a separatist sort of nationalism. This is against the very message of Quran. Allah created different nations so that we can meet each other. The only natural barrier is language. You can interact with people who speak a common language only. Apart from that, giving importance to race based differences is totally un-Islamic. Family ties has nothing to do with it. Allah commends in Quran to us to get united not divided. We have a nation of Muslims called ummah.

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I think we need to understand where some of this White Nationalist ideology comes from and why people are embracing it

As a white guy in the west, I am reminded almost daily that I am inherently some kind of vicious, genocidal racist and misogynist, simply because of the color of my skin. Furthermore, I am told that what I have earned is a result of "privilege", and that this privilege is a consequence of oppressing minorities.

In other words, if you demonize people long enough, they are going to start pushing back. They are going to get frustrated, especially when many of them have bent over backwards trying to appease, or help in some way, minority groups, Muslims, or the less fortunate. It is never enough: Sweden welcomes thousands of refugees and economic migrants into their country, and yet we have Islamic terrorist attacks in that country, and a rape epidemic that isn't a result of the native population's behavior. We have migrants accepting generous welfare from western nations and then turning around and calling the people who gave them the money "kafirs" or "infidels".

Now this situation is particular to Europe for the most part: Muslim immigrants get along pretty well in the US with the native population.

But when westerners turn on their televisions and see terrorist atrocities happening on an almost weekly basis around the world, it makes an impression.

Fact: Muslims are far safer in western countries than in Middle-Eastern

Fact: you are far more likely to get killed by a fellow Muslim than some lone-wolf, crazy white guy.

People in the west start embracing White Nationalism out of frustration, and in some cases rage. It is less about racism, and more about a reactionary impulse.

For people who think white guys are in power in the US, I would look a little further to see who owns virtually all the major banks and financial institutions, the Hollywood studios, 50% of the professional sports teams, and most of the Silicon Valley firms. Who owns Google and Facebook? It isn't white guys--it's Jews, and some of them foreign born. 40% of the Fortune 400, the richest people in the whole world, are Jewish, even though they are a tiny minority. Trump is controlled by Kushner and his Jewish handlers. AIPAC pretty much determines who becomes president.

Here in Illinois, our governor is a Jewish billionaire (Pritzker), and the Mayor of Chicago is also Jewish (Emmanuel). The average household income for a Jewish family in the US is double that of whites (whites come in behind Asians and Indians as well).

So when White Nationalist complain about Jewish influence and power, can we really tell them that they are wrong? George Soros almost single-handedly wrecked the British economy when he shorted the Pound. These are dangerous people with large amounts of political, social, and financial power.

Jews tell whites that we must allow refugees into our countries and allow Muslims and others to live within our borders, but Israel either expels people with brown skin from the country (which they did recently to Africans), or they put Palestinians and other Muslims into camps or ghettos.

I don't know of a single white person who wants the US to be involved in the Middle-East on any kind of military level. Many whites are actually somewhat sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

"Racism" is a leftist slogan used by Jews and others to silence criticism.

Would it be racist for an Arab living in Damascus to object to a plan that involved settling 50,000 white Christians in the city? Would it be racist for a Muslim living in Cairo to become concerned if a militant Christian was elected mayor of the city? Would it be racist for Muslims to worry about the sudden appearance of Christian churches in which sermons were given denouncing the people of other faiths as sub-human infidels, and urging violence against them?

There could be a racist element to it, but these are legitimate fears and concerns.

When you tell white people that they are not allowed to have their own countries, and cannot speak in their self-interest, you invite problems.

Nationalism is on rise all over the World because of the decline of religion. As nations lose their connection with their religion they seek some other ties to connect eachother and nationalism is the easiest one. You can put in it or remove whatever you want and you basically dont have to do anything. Being of that specific nation is enough. It can give a very prideful feeling to have such a mentality when you make yourself believe in it. Islam does not promote or confirm this kind of mentality. Islam only teaches to unite as far as we can despite of natural borders as geography, language..etc. Pride is a very basic sin in Islam.

[fschmidt]

Islam does not confirm a separatist sort of nationalism. This is against the very message of Quran. Allah created different nations so that we can meet each other. The only natural barrier is language. You can interact with people who speak a common language only. Apart from that, giving importance to race based differences is totally un-Islamic. Family ties has nothing to do with it. Allah commends in Quran to us to get united not divided. We have a nation of Muslims called ummah.

The Quran says nothing about nationalism. The ummah is supposed to be united in religion, which doesn't prevent it from being divided in other ways like into nations. Do you think Saudi Arabia should have an open border policy with other Muslim nations? Then it would overwhelmed with people from countries like Pakistan and its native culture would be lost. Countries have a right to protect their native culture with limited immigration. And since culture is not religion, this doesn't conflict with being part of the ummah.

[anatolian]

The Quran says nothing about nationalism. The ummah is supposed to be united in religion, which doesn't prevent it from being divided in other ways like into nations. Do you think Saudi Arabia should have an open border policy with other Muslim nations? Then it would overwhelmed with people from countries like Pakistan and its native culture would be lost. Countries have a right to protect their native culture with limited immigration. And since culture is not religion, this doesn't conflict with being part of the ummah.

In an ideal implementation of Islam there wouldnt be political borders between Muslim folks. There would be one Islamic state ruling all Muslims. There woudnt be so much economic differences between the different parts of the state so there wouldnt be need for mass immigration. If you look at all Muslim folks of the World you can observe the main Islamic culture. Our differences are only in details. If we have attached to Islam more, those differences would be even lesser. The religion of Islam is a social engineer. It shapes the individuals and nations in a very spacific form and the common Islamic culture is born out of this. Your "whitest" American becomes like an Arab after converting to Islam and being a Muslim for long years.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Had to share this, normal service is resumed.

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[ardianto]

Salaam

Had to share this, normal service is resumed.

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Yahya Cholil Staquf is known as liberal figure. In one interview with German newspaper he said that terrorists and Islam are closely related.

[Abz2000]

Jews, usury, deception, war and bloodshed for destabilsation and continuous profit off bickering and loans, malice, greed, debasing of coin and even fiat currency, and blackmail are even more closely related.

[CuriousonTruth]

I think we need to understand where some of this White Nationalist ideology comes from and why people are embracing it

As a white guy in the west, I am reminded almost daily that I am inherently some kind of vicious, genocidal racist and misogynist, simply because of the color of my skin. Furthermore, I am told that what I have earned is a result of "privilege", and that this privilege is a consequence of oppressing minorities.

In other words, if you demonize people long enough, they are going to start pushing back. They are going to get frustrated, especially when many of them have bent over backwards trying to appease, or help in some way, minority groups, Muslims, or the less fortunate. It is never enough: Sweden welcomes thousands of refugees and economic migrants into their country, and yet we have Islamic terrorist attacks in that country, and a rape epidemic that isn't a result of the native population's behavior. We have migrants accepting generous welfare from western nations and then turning around and calling the people who gave them the money "kafirs" or "infidels".

Now this situation is particular to Europe for the most part: Muslim immigrants get along pretty well in the US with the native population.

But when westerners turn on their televisions and see terrorist atrocities happening on an almost weekly basis around the world, it makes an impression.

Fact: Muslims are far safer in western countries than in Middle-Eastern

Fact: you are far more likely to get killed by a fellow Muslim than some lone-wolf, crazy white guy.

People in the west start embracing White Nationalism out of frustration, and in some cases rage. It is less about racism, and more about a reactionary impulse.

For people who think white guys are in power in the US, I would look a little further to see who owns virtually all the major banks and financial institutions, the Hollywood studios, 50% of the professional sports teams, and most of the Silicon Valley firms. Who owns Google and Facebook? It isn't white guys--it's Jews, and some of them foreign born. 40% of the Fortune 400, the richest people in the whole world, are Jewish, even though they are a tiny minority. Trump is controlled by Kushner and his Jewish handlers. AIPAC pretty much determines who becomes president.

Here in Illinois, our governor is a Jewish billionaire (Pritzker), and the Mayor of Chicago is also Jewish (Emmanuel). The average household income for a Jewish family in the US is double that of whites (whites come in behind Asians and Indians as well).

So when White Nationalist complain about Jewish influence and power, can we really tell them that they are wrong? George Soros almost single-handedly wrecked the British economy when he shorted the Pound. These are dangerous people with large amounts of political, social, and financial power.

Jews tell whites that we must allow refugees into our countries and allow Muslims and others to live within our borders, but Israel either expels people with brown skin from the country (which they did recently to Africans), or they put Palestinians and other Muslims into camps or ghettos.

I don't know of a single white person who wants the US to be involved in the Middle-East on any kind of military level. Many whites are actually somewhat sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

"Racism" is a leftist slogan used by Jews and others to silence criticism.

Would it be racist for an Arab living in Damascus to object to a plan that involved settling 50,000 white Christians in the city? Would it be racist for a Muslim living in Cairo to become concerned if a militant Christian was elected mayor of the city? Would it be racist for Muslims to worry about the sudden appearance of Christian churches in which sermons were given denouncing the people of other faiths as sub-human infidels, and urging violence against them?

There could be a racist element to it, but these are legitimate fears and concerns.

When you tell white people that they are not allowed to have their own countries, and cannot speak in their self-interest, you invite problems.

So what? White constantly attack other ideologies and cultures under free speech, if your fragile egos can't handle criticism, you need to take a better look at yourself, because your people are not some kindergarten children that we will have to babysit you because of your "feelings" and mental fragilities and insecurities.

You people don't seem to mind other people when you attack their culture, their way of life, their religion. You don't seem to be bothered that the cultures and religions of other race find their way to your comedy shows, where you denigrate, defile them till you had enough.

So give me a break. "Mommy, that black guy called me a racist, wahhh! Send him away mommy, send him away!"

That is the exact behaviour of a highly priviliged person who has never faced a real challenge or criticism and so he wants that criticism to go away and disappear like a child in kindergarten.

Grow a thicker skin or cry or do whatever I don't care.

It is hilarious you turn around and pretend as if this is just a new problem created by the muzzlum immigrants. First the Anglo-Saxon germanics used to discriminate the Italians, Irish, Slavic, then the blacks, Chinese, then the Indians, then the Arabs, finally the muzzlums.

White nationalism is a reaction to the success of East Asians, India, Turkey, etc. Europe doesn't hold the same sway as they did in the 20th century, so white people feel their control over the world is slipping away, so they advocate for return of the same policies of the 20th century that got them so much of their successes in the first place.


"Would it be racist for a Muslim living in Cairo to become concerned if a militant Christian was elected mayor of the city? Would it be racist for Muslims to worry about the sudden appearance of Christian churches in which sermons were given denouncing the people of other faiths as sub-human infidels, and urging violence against them?"

Funny thing you mention Cairo of all places. Really would it be "racist" if a muslim is concerned about the pro-Christian dictator Al-Sis who has the direct backing of Coptic christians who is putting muslims in torture in prisons while happily celebrating christmas with coptics.

Let me tell you what it would be - it be would "religious extremism", "terrorism", "backward 7th century mentality" (i presume all these terminologies are familiar to you because European say this to conservative muslims all the time). Even standing up for our indigenous culture and identity like Uighur, Moros, Rohigya is viewed as extremism and is met with relentless brutality.


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And given how much White nationalists emphasize on patriotism, they sure do absolutely hate non-European leaders who protect their own cultures. I remember how angry white people were, literally tearing their hair away when the coup in Turkey failed, it was glorious to seem to seething in rage. It was also a friendly reminder to us, that things like democracy are absolte BS to you, it's either your way or the high way.

I mean even if Erdogan wasn't a great muslim leader, I would love him because he makes Europeans so angry just by his presence, it's a slight throwback to the good old days of the Ottoman empire, even if in the slightest. 100% of white nationalists without exception hate Erdogan, China, Duterte, etc because they are all independent leaders who do not submit to white power.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2016/0...-coup-failure/

Geert Wilders, leader of the anti-Islam PVV, approved of the army’s action. ‘I hope Erdogans islamofascist regime is finished. The sooner the better,’ he said earlier in the evening on Twitter.

So you want total, and unquestioned submission of non-European countries.

[Ahmed.]

I personally reject racism but I don't see it as a big problem. Racism doesn't imply hatred of anyone, it just means that people want to live with their own race. Just because I only allow my family to live in my house doesn't mean that I hate everyone who isn't a member of my family.

Here in America white nationalists just want to split up the country and have some portion of it as a white nation. I have nothing against this. Europe is more problematic because it is more densely populated. I don't know the situation there well enough to say what should happen.

Muhammad supported the idea of being loyal to one's extended family, and racism could be considered an extension of this idea. As I mentioned, there are Arab Muslim tribes that don't intermarry and have their own area, and are therefore racist in the same way that white nationalists are. And Islam has no problem with this.

Anything that differs significantly from the mainstream is considered extremist or far-whatever. I am sure that the Quraysh considered Muhammad to be an extremist and tried to suppress his free speech in Mecca for this reason, just as mainstream culture today does with views it doesn't like.

White nationalists today are not Nazis. This is just a slur used against them.

Islam doesn't have a problem with the sort of nationalists you're describing except that we'll just teach them that it's still wrong as one should embrace their fellow man as we're all equal and one human race.

I'm basically talking about the mainstream far right parties in the West who, if compared to Islam like you did, cannot be compared to Islam and only their terrorists compared to isis as their ideologies itself is extremist. So you can compare them to an extremist Islamic sect and their terrorists to ISIS

[CuriousonTruth]

White nationalists today are not Nazis. This is just a slur used against them.

That is part of the problem. Nazis were not white nationalists, they were German supremacists whose main casualties were other white people.

I have no problem with that. You people can kill each other till the day of judgement.

White nationalists however far, far more dangerous than anything Mr. Hitler could pull out.

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I think we need to understand where some of this White Nationalist ideology comes from and why people are embracing it

As a white guy in the west, I am reminded almost daily that I am inherently some kind of vicious, genocidal racist and misogynist, simply because of the color of my skin. Furthermore, I am told that what I have earned is a result of "privilege", and that this privilege is a consequence of oppressing minorities.

In other words, if you demonize people long enough, they are going to start pushing back. They are going to get frustrated, especially when many of them have bent over backwards trying to appease, or help in some way, minority groups, Muslims, or the less fortunate. It is never enough: Sweden welcomes thousands of refugees and economic migrants into their country, and yet we have Islamic terrorist attacks in that country, and a rape epidemic that isn't a result of the native population's behavior. We have migrants accepting generous welfare from western nations and then turning around and calling the people who gave them the money "kafirs" or "infidels".

Now this situation is particular to Europe for the most part: Muslim immigrants get along pretty well in the US with the native population.

But when westerners turn on their televisions and see terrorist atrocities happening on an almost weekly basis around the world, it makes an impression.

Fact: Muslims are far safer in western countries than in Middle-Eastern

Fact: you are far more likely to get killed by a fellow Muslim than some lone-wolf, crazy white guy.

People in the west start embracing White Nationalism out of frustration, and in some cases rage. It is less about racism, and more about a reactionary impulse.

For people who think white guys are in power in the US, I would look a little further to see who owns virtually all the major banks and financial institutions, the Hollywood studios, 50% of the professional sports teams, and most of the Silicon Valley firms. Who owns Google and Facebook? It isn't white guys--it's Jews, and some of them foreign born. 40% of the Fortune 400, the richest people in the whole world, are Jewish, even though they are a tiny minority. Trump is controlled by Kushner and his Jewish handlers. AIPAC pretty much determines who becomes president.

Here in Illinois, our governor is a Jewish billionaire (Pritzker), and the Mayor of Chicago is also Jewish (Emmanuel). The average household income for a Jewish family in the US is double that of whites (whites come in behind Asians and Indians as well).

So when White Nationalist complain about Jewish influence and power, can we really tell them that they are wrong? George Soros almost single-handedly wrecked the British economy when he shorted the Pound. These are dangerous people with large amounts of political, social, and financial power.

Jews tell whites that we must allow refugees into our countries and allow Muslims and others to live within our borders, but Israel either expels people with brown skin from the country (which they did recently to Africans), or they put Palestinians and other Muslims into camps or ghettos.

I don't know of a single white person who wants the US to be involved in the Middle-East on any kind of military level. Many whites are actually somewhat sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

"Racism" is a leftist slogan used by Jews and others to silence criticism.

Would it be racist for an Arab living in Damascus to object to a plan that involved settling 50,000 white Christians in the city? Would it be racist for a Muslim living in Cairo to become concerned if a militant Christian was elected mayor of the city? Would it be racist for Muslims to worry about the sudden appearance of Christian churches in which sermons were given denouncing the people of other faiths as sub-human infidels, and urging violence against them?

There could be a racist element to it, but these are legitimate fears and concerns.

When you tell white people that they are not allowed to have their own countries, and cannot speak in their self-interest, you invite problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInCVr1Nfc4

[Ahmed.]

Everyone should have a right to free speech, even Muhammad in Mecca.

I am trying to organize a discussion between an intelligent Muslim and a white nationalist for YouTube. If I can do this, I will post it here.

If it's a white nationalist like you describe, who just wants a separate part of the country to just live with his white folks and doesn't hate on others then free speech for him is fine, however the average white nationalist these days includes a lot of hatemongering and indirect violence inciting towards Muslims and this sort of speech is against the law:

laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender identity, or sexual orientation is forbidden.[1][2][3][4] Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.[5] The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.[6]

Ref: Wikipedia

[fschmidt]

If it's a white nationalist like you describe, who just wants a separate part of the country to just live with his white folks and doesn't hate on others then free speech for him is fine, however the average white nationalist these days includes a lot of hatemongering and indirect violence inciting towards Muslims and this sort of speech is against the law:

laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender identity, or sexual orientation is forbidden.[1][2][3][4] Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.[5] The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.[6]

Ref: Wikipedia

Let me tell you who this white nationalist is. He was banned from a forum I am on for saying that he hates jews. I am a jew and I defended his right to free speech. I protested his ban and got him unbanned from the forum. Then I was able to explain to him that the problem is Judaism, not jews as a race. Today we are friends which is why we are working on this video together.

Hate speech laws are insane. Instead of allowing open discussion, they just drive hate underground where it can only expressed by violence. Europe deserves violence (from both sides) because of its insane hate speech laws. Free speech is the only way for people in conflict to resolve their differences without violence.

[Ahmed.]

Let me tell you who this white nationalist is. He was banned from a forum I am on for saying that he hates jews. I am a jew and I defended his right to free speech. I protested his ban and got him unbanned from the forum. Then I was able to explain to him that the problem is Judaism, not jews as a race. Today we are friends which is why we are working on this video together.

Hate speech laws are insane. Instead of allowing open discussion, they just drive hate underground where it can only expressed by violence. Europe deserves violence (from both sides) because of its insane hate speech laws. Free speech is the only way for people in conflict to resolve their differences without violence.

But most of the racists are too far gone to be rehabilitated and so their hate speech only contributes to spreading hate and not the 'identify, discuss and rehabilitate' scenario which may happen rarely.

Also rare successful rehabilitations is not worth the misery and distress it causes the wider communities and the number of lives lost in the terrorism it ultimately leads to

Rehabilitations can be done anyway as most of them are too extreme to be cowed into shutting up with this law, and by promulgating refutations of extremism on social media. in this way we kill 2 birds with 1 stone, deter and punish hatemongers and rehabilitate some of them too :)

PS: this law has been put there by the Jews infact :). The 'Government behind the governments' ;) (,see some of AbdullahAziz's posts on here) so the Jews recognise the serious threat that allowing free hate speech poses in terms of a potential nazi comeback so I'm surprised that you don't?

[fschmidt]

But most of the racists are too far gone to be rehabilitated and so their hate speech only contributes to spreading hate and not the 'identify, discuss and rehabilitate' scenario which may happen rarely.

Also rare successful rehabilitations is not worth the misery and distress it causes the wider communities and the number of lives lost in the terrorism it ultimately leads to

Rehabilitations can be done anyway as most of them are too extreme to be cowed into shutting up with this law, and by promulgating refutations of extremism on social media. in this way we kill 2 birds with 1 stone, deter and punish hatemongers and rehabilitate some of them too :)

Where did you get this opinion? Well really, I don't need to ask because I know. You were brainwashed by propaganda. You probably never had a serious conversation with a white nationalist in your life.

PS: this law has been put there by the Jews infact :). The 'Government behind the governments' ;) (,see some of AbdullahAziz's posts on here) so the Jews recognise the serious threat that allowing free hate speech poses in terms of a potential nazi comeback so I'm surprised that you don't?

Jews? Now you are the racist. It isn't Jews, it is Judaism. Do you know why I hate Judaism? I hate Judaism because Judaism caused the Holocaust in which most of my family died. To be fair, I assign about 90% of the blame to Judaism and about 10% of the blame to the Nazis.

Judaism hates free speech because it is based on telling lies to the stupid goyim, people like you who will do what they want. Free speech risks exposing their lies. Judaism thrives on corruption, on buying off politicians and using the banking system to screw the people. This works for while until the system goes bankrupt and then the people revolt. This is how the Nazis came to power. And this could well happen again. The Talmudic strategy is the cause of Nazism. Of course it is in the interest of Judaism to have white nationalists and Muslims fight each other. You are doing exactly what they want. If Muslims don't wake up, the next far-right movement in Europe may well slaughter both Jews and Muslims. But if Muslims do wake up and cooperate with white nationalists, then Judaism can be peacefully expelled and then everyone else can live in peace.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Let me tell you who this white nationalist is. He was banned from a forum I am on for saying that he hates jews. I am a jew and I defended his right to free speech. I protested his ban and got him unbanned from the forum. Then I was able to explain to him that the problem is Judaism, not jews as a race. Today we are friends which is why we are working on this video together.

Hate speech laws are insane. Instead of allowing open discussion, they just drive hate underground where it can only expressed by violence. Europe deserves violence (from both sides) because of its insane hate speech laws. Free speech is the only way for people in conflict to resolve their differences without violence.

I agree there is an unhealthy obsession with 'hate speech' and 'phobias'. Im not a free speech fanatic (im for civilised discourse) but the more and more restrictions you place on speech and behaviour is going to create a pressure cooker enviroment, which will eventually explode, sooner or later. We have to have upfront and honest discussions if were ever going to get ourselves out of this predicament.

So what? White constantly attack other ideologies and cultures under free speech, if your fragile egos can't handle criticism, you need to take a better look at yourself, because your people are not some kindergarten children that we will have to babysit you because of your "feelings" and mental fragilities and insecurities.

You people don't seem to mind other people when you attack their culture, their way of life, their religion. You don't seem to be bothered that the cultures and religions of other race find their way to your comedy shows, where you denigrate, defile them till you had enough.

Bro, I understand the anger and unfairness but we have to be more constructive, your generalising too much (eg. you have to distinguish between rulers and the ruled), point scoring against each other isnt going to get us anywhere.

Playing the victimhood card isnt going to get us anywhere in the longterm.

[CuriousonTruth]

Bro, I understand the anger and unfairness but we have to be more constructive, your generalising too much (eg. you have to distinguish between rulers and the ruled), point scoring against each other isnt going to get us anywhere.

Playing the victimhood card isnt going to get us anywhere in the longterm.

Their rulers are actually better than them, I doubt the world would be a better place if it was ruled by "Nuke Mecca" mobs. Good about the elites ruling the West is that they don't want to nuke random places just because their egos were strained.

Look these people vote for someone like Wilders and parties like AfD who have no policies other than ranting against Islam, they follow 'personalities' like Sam Harris who call for 'nuking' Mecca.

We must understand that these people are not normal people, their is nothing normal about the absolute mindless destructive, mass-murdering mentality of these people. Several civilizations have been made extinct by these people. Are you sure you want to be next?

There comes a point of 'survival', I don't want islam to follow the same path as the Native americans, Aboriginals, etc.

[Silas]

I think we need to take a step back and analyze this situation from above, and realize what is happening

EVERY ethnic and religious group has their own self-interest, projects, and prejudices/assumptions. This is normal human behavior that has been true since the founding of city states.

Problems arise when one group tries to claim moral supremacy and claim that they act out of a rational desire for the betterment of mankind. In other words, they assert that their ideology and interests are superior to others. Likewise, further problems arise then the interests of some groups are ignored in order to placate others.

An example would be the situation in Israel. Zionist Jews claim that they are the enlightened ones who have a divine claim to the Holy Land. They tell us this isn't some racial or political thing, but rather that they really are singled out by God to own that piece of real estate. Likewise, they claim victim-status because of events from 70 years ago, and insist on "hate speech" laws as a way to control criticism against them.

Note: I specifically mean Zionist Jews here --there are Jews that are harsh critics of Israel

Another example would be the hypocrisy of *some* Arabs in regards to the situation in Europe. They claim that things like multiculturalism and tolerance are good things, and that these things should be embraced. They ask for accommodation from these European countries, but those same Arabs would insist that non-Muslims living in places like Saudi Arabia, Oman, or Pakistan, be subject to special taxes, and be prevented from participating in the political life of the country (forbidden to vote, etc.). So we see here that these Arabs want equal rights for themselves, but not for others, since they are acting out of self-interest.

Another example would be the religious right in the American South, who think that they are the custodians of culture and religion, and who feel no need to extend tolerance or accommodation to others.

The Japanese see no need to embrace multiculturalism at all, and limit who can come into their country. Outsiders are viewed with suspicion.

Even among Muslims, Iranian Shia and Arab Sunni have been fighting for centuries, and these battles have not always been about religion--much of it is political, racial, and ideological.

So are we really going to say that only white Europeans seem to act out of racial self-interest? And that this needs to be condemned, as if everyone else isn't doing the same thing?

[ardianto]

So are we really going to say that only white Europeans seem to act out of racial self-interest? And that this needs to be condemned, as if everyone else isn't doing the same thing?

There are many racist people too among Asians. But they do not organize themselves into organizations that make racism as ideology. Different than racists people among the White, which they established a number of organizations. KKK, in example. That's why when the world people talk about racism, they always pointing their fingers to White people.

[Silas]

There are many racist people too among Asians. But they do not organize themselves into organizations that make racism as ideology. Different than racists people among the White, which they established a number of organizations. KKK, in example. That's why when the world people talk about racism, they always pointing their fingers to White people.

The reason people associate racism with whites is because of the narrative that is put forth by our media, and we know who controls that

Imperial Japan viewed Chinese as inferior up until 1945. The invasion of Manchuria and the massacre of civilians reflected this.

In Africa, tribal warfare has sometimes taken on a racial character. The Hutus massacred the Tutsis and Pygmies, not only for political reasons, but because they thought those people were inferior (especially the Pygmies)

There is an entire Wikipedia article dealing with racism in Turkey --Armenians and others were considered dogs by the ruling majority. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism...inst_Armenians

So other peoples absolutely organize themselves into groups that sometimes use race or ethnicity as a pretense for oppressing or killing others.

The Jews that run the media use the boogeyman of white racism to cover up their own ethno-state project and the systematic oppression of Palestinians. As long as racism is considered and exclusively white-European thing, no one pays attention to what is happening in Israel

[CuriousonTruth]

I think we need to take a step back and analyze this situation from above, and realize what is happening

EVERY ethnic and religious group has their own self-interest, projects, and prejudices/assumptions. This is normal human behavior that has been true since the founding of city states.

Problems arise when one group tries to claim moral supremacy and claim that they act out of a rational desire for the betterment of mankind. In other words, they assert that their ideology and interests are superior to others. Likewise, further problems arise then the interests of some groups are ignored in order to placate others.

An example would be the situation in Israel. Zionist Jews claim that they are the enlightened ones who have a divine claim to the Holy Land. They tell us this isn't some racial or political thing, but rather that they really are singled out by God to own that piece of real estate. Likewise, they claim victim-status because of events from 70 years ago, and insist on "hate speech" laws as a way to control criticism against them.

Note: I specifically mean Zionist Jews here --there are Jews that are harsh critics of Israel

Another example would be the hypocrisy of *some* Arabs in regards to the situation in Europe. They claim that things like multiculturalism and tolerance are good things, and that these things should be embraced. They ask for accommodation from these European countries, but those same Arabs would insist that non-Muslims living in places like Saudi Arabia, Oman, or Pakistan, be subject to special taxes, and be prevented from participating in the political life of the country (forbidden to vote, etc.). So we see here that these Arabs want equal rights for themselves, but not for others, since they are acting out of self-interest.

Another example would be the religious right in the American South, who think that they are the custodians of culture and religion, and who feel no need to extend tolerance or accommodation to others.

The Japanese see no need to embrace multiculturalism at all, and limit who can come into their country. Outsiders are viewed with suspicion.

Even among Muslims, Iranian Shia and Arab Sunni have been fighting for centuries, and these battles have not always been about religion--much of it is political, racial, and ideological.

So are we really going to say that only white Europeans seem to act out of racial self-interest? And that this needs to be condemned, as if everyone else isn't doing the same thing?

Your lack of historical accuracy does not surprise me at all. So let's get the facts straight, following conquest of Persia, Arabs and Iranians have never had a major war till Iraq-Iran war.

The Sunni-Shia war, firstly was between Seljuk Turks (Sunni) and Arab Fatimid Caliphate(Shia). Then Shah Ismail (a Turkic shia) from Azerbaijan conquered Tabriz, Isfahan, etc and forced Persians to convert to shiaism. He also supported a shia turkic uprising in East Anatolia which was brutally crushed by Selim I. And this began a long war between Ottomans and Iranian Safavid empire. Nothing to do with arabs.

And as for your statement that all groups have racism, I should remind you both Ottoman and Abbasid empires were the most successful multicultural, multi-racial societies of all time. They certainly didn't have any race problem atleast until Young Turk revolution.

Although for aforementioned self-interest reasons, next time Muslims have a great civilization, please no tolerance to Europeans, Ottomans and Andalusians made a huge mistake tolerating those groups.

I can't believe you bring up Japan again, Japan committed atrocities in one part of their history, Europeans have been wrecking havoc since Alexander's conquests. I don't care if Japs are racist, as long as they don't harm other people. They can be as racist as they want in their island.

KSA is a kingdom, Pakistan is an "islamic" republic, Oman is a sultanate. Your countries are ones who styles themselves as the enlightened secular beacon of humanity, not those countries. So yeah, that's invalid comparasion.

- - - Updated - - -

The Jews that run the media use the boogeyman of white racism to cover up their own ethno-state project and the systematic oppression of Palestinians. As long as racism is considered and exclusively white-European thing, no one pays attention to what is happening in Israel

This is completely false though. A lot of people know exactly what is happening in Palestine, majority of Europeans, Americans, Russians and Indians support it because Israel is like their little baby(exception india). From religious perspective (only Evangelicals) Israel is seen as the herald of the coming of christ and if not that it is a symbol of Judeo-European supremacy. And if not that it is a bastion against Islam and is a great base of operation to keep Middle East in a state of perpetual chaos and complete control of the West.

The Europeans lost white baby states in South Africa and Rhodesia, they won't let Israel fall as well.

[Silas]

The idea that Israel is a white baby state controlled by Europeans or Americans is silly

Israel controls the west, not the other way around

[CuriousonTruth]

The reason people associate racism with whites is because of the narrative that is put forth by our media, and we know who controls that

The Japanese see no need to embrace multiculturalism at all, and limit who can come into their country. Outsiders are viewed with suspicion.

Okay this kind of things just really bother me when you say "oh all people are like this."

Let's look at some facts, when muslim or African countries pass legislation to protect their culture, such as passing anti-gay laws, I never see Korea, Japan and any other countries in the world that takes action except for the West. Their societies are also pro-gay, but they never embargo countries with anti-gay laws.

And Japan and Korea do not fund pro-gay organizations. In Bangladesh, homosexuality is crime but a USAID agent opened the first gay magazine here. They covertly organized a rally that had been strongly supported by US embassy, Norwegian embassy and th Goethe Institute of Germany.

Why only western countries and not Japan who covertly tries to destroy other people's culture?

I see no other country that so aggressively tries to force their culture on other countries except for the West.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27933051
https://www.euractiv.com/section/dev...-anti-gay-law/

Most of the active NGOs who are aggressively trying to secularize muslim countries are entirely exclusively funded by the west.

And I am not bringing up any history, or direct and proxy wars by the West. Just what they are doing covertly to destory other nations.

Do you see the problem here? Europeans can never learn to leave other people in peace, they never have and never will until they are defeated in war and their armies are destroyed like Ottomans and rashidun caliphate did. That is the only way for us to get peace.

[Silas]

Okay this kind of things just really bother me when you say "oh all people are like this."

Let's look at some facts, when muslim or African countries pass legislation to protect their culture, such as passing anti-gay laws, I never see Korea, Japan and any other countries in the world that takes action except for the West. Their societies are also pro-gay, but they never embargo countries with anti-gay laws.

And Japan and Korea do not fund pro-gay organizations. In Bangladesh, homosexuality is crime but a USAID agent opened the first gay magazine here. They covertly organized a rally that had been strongly supported by US embassy, Norwegian embassy and th Goethe Institute of Germany.

Why only western countries and not Japan who covertly tries to destroy other people's culture?

I see no other country that so aggressively tries to force their culture on other countries except for the West.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27933051
https://www.euractiv.com/section/dev...-anti-gay-law/

Most of the active NGOs who are aggressively trying to secularize muslim countries are entirely exclusively funded by the west.

And I am not bringing up any history, or direct and proxy wars by the West. Just what they are doing covertly to destory other nations.

Do you see the problem here? Europeans can never learn to leave other people in peace, they never have and never will until they are defeated in war and their armies are destroyed like Ottomans and rashidun caliphate did. That is the only way for us to get peace.

On this thread and elsewhere you have said you hate Christians and westerners, and have implied violence against them

you do realize this feeds into the stereotype promoted by certain right-wing white nationalists and Zionists of Muslim men as hateful, dangerous, and ungracious? Your Khawarig rhetoric reflects the poison the swirls in the faith these days, and most Muslims do not hold such views.

There is a difference between objecting to American foreign policy and military intervention in the Middle-East (which I do all the time), and issuing a blanket condemnation of white people, and accusing them of all the crimes in history. White people are like other people--some are bad, some are good, and everyone has their prejudices and assumptions.

[CuriousonTruth]

On this thread and elsewhere you have said you hate Christians and westerners, and have implied violence against them

you do realize this feeds into the stereotype promoted by certain right-wing white nationalists and Zionists of Muslim men as hateful, dangerous, and ungracious? Your Khawarig rhetoric reflects the poison the swirls in the faith these days, and most Muslims do not hold such views.

There is a difference between objecting to American foreign policy and military intervention in the Middle-East (which I do all the time), and issuing a blanket condemnation of white people, and accusing them of all the crimes in history. White people are like other people--some are bad, some are good, and everyone has their prejudices and assumptions.

Didn't answer any of question or point I raised but ok.

Most muslims who don't atleast view Europeans as a threat (if not hate) to muslims are either secularized and barely follow religion, or they have "Stockholm syndrome", liberal evangelizers hoping to convert Europeans (lol), or just ignorant.

[Silas]

Didn't answer any of question or point I raised but ok.

Most muslims who don't atleast view Europeans as a threat (if not hate) to muslims are either secularized and barely follow religion, or they have "Stockholm syndrome", liberal evangelizers hoping to convert Europeans (lol), or just ignorant.

A threat? Seems like Muslims have a lot more to fear from their fellow Muslims as from Europeans

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/islamis...w-report-says/

And if Muslims hate westerners as you say, why are many settling in western lands? The Muslims in my community enjoy a far higher standard of living than those living in Turkey. They also enjoy greater freedoms.

[CuriousonTruth]

A threat? Seems like Muslims have a lot more to fear from their fellow Muslims as from Europeans

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/islamis...w-report-says/

And if Muslims hate westerners as you say, why are many settling in western lands? The Muslims in my community enjoy a far higher standard of living than those living in Turkey. They also enjoy greater freedoms.

You are assuming quite a lot. Obviously I was talking about religious muslims who are well read into history and can understand the motives of Europeans. Ofcourse that is not how muslims are raised, they are raised to be subservient to western people and their culture, I was too raised like that but i broke that off.

And if you didn't get by now, most muslims who go to the West have a completely westernized world view themselves rather than an islamic one and practice religion very nominally. And you live in the USA, with the 2nd most liberal muslims in the world (1st being canada), so why would you expect those people to have an older, conservative world view.

American muslims are even more liberal than the average American. They don't represent Islam. If you want Islam look up history,

Rashidun Caliphate = Islam
Abbsaid Caliphate = Islam
Ottoman Sultanate =Islam

21st century westernized muslims =/= Islam

[Silas]

You are assuming quite a lot. Obviously I was talking about religious muslims who are well read into history and can understand the motives of Europeans. Ofcourse that is not how muslims are raised, they are raised to be subservient to western people and their culture, I was too raised like that but i broke that off.

And if you didn't get by now, most muslims who go to the West have a completely westernized world view themselves rather than an islamic one and practice religion very nominally. And you live in the USA, with the 2nd most liberal muslims in the world (1st being canada), so why would you expect those people to have an older, conservative world view.

American muslims are even more liberal than the average American. They don't represent Islam. If you want Islam look up history,

Rashidun Caliphate = Islam
Abbsaid Caliphate = Islam
Ottoman Sultanate =Islam

21st century westernized muslims =/= Islam

I don't have any problem with Muslims setting up some kind of Caliphate (provided it isn't something crazy, like ISIL), or having their own countries and laws.

But the Ottoman Empire, Abbasid Caliphate, etc. are not coming back any time soon. We can't turn back the clock to the middle-ages, or even the 19th century.

[anatolian]

Rashidun Caliphate = Islam
Abbsaid Caliphate = Islam
Ottoman Sultanate = Islam

Thats a wrong assumption bro. None other than the Prophet can be defined as equal to Islam. These states had their mistakes.

[CuriousonTruth]

Thats a wrong assumption bro. None other than the Prophet can be defined as equal to Islam. These states had their mistakes.

I obviously meant they represent real islam, not our generation. Also Rashidun Caliphate is accepted as the ideal state islamically, what mistake did they made? i guess Umar(Ra) made mistake by trusting the Persians which would be the reason that he was killed.

But this was Qadr, it was prophesised the rightly guided caliphate will be for 30 years, which is exactly what happened, so technically all the errors made by the four caliphs are not really their fault.

They were ruled by humans so obviously all of the empires had their dark sides. For example, the Mutazilite era under Abbasids and Tanzimat of the Ottomans.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

:(

Embedded Tweet

[SintoDinto]

You are assuming quite a lot. Obviously I was talking about religious muslims who are well read into history and can understand the motives of Europeans. Ofcourse that is not how muslims are raised, they are raised to be subservient to western people and their culture, I was too raised like that but i broke that off.

And if you didn't get by now, most muslims who go to the West have a completely westernized world view themselves rather than an islamic one and practice religion very nominally. And you live in the USA, with the 2nd most liberal muslims in the world (1st being canada), so why would you expect those people to have an older, conservative world view.

American muslims are even more liberal than the average American. They don't represent Islam. If you want Islam look up history,

Rashidun Caliphate = Islam
Abbsaid Caliphate = Islam
Ottoman Sultanate =Islam

21st century westernized muslims =/= Islam

you know you talk alot about the crimes committed by the whites but you fail to recognize the crimes committed by the muslims including genocide, misuse of slavery (similar to trans atlantic slave trade), pillaging, ethnic cleansing, mass murder, false flags, oppression, etc. just look up history. youll see christians and muslims are neck and neck.

[CuriousonTruth]

you know you talk alot about the crimes committed by the whites but you fail to recognize the crimes committed by the muslims including genocide, misuse of slavery (similar to trans atlantic slave trade), pillaging, ethnic cleansing, mass murder, false flags, oppression, etc. just look up history. youll see christians and muslims are neck and neck.

LOL funny character.

[Abz2000]

@SintoDinto Know what a white Muslim is?

Guess what?
Some Muslims disguise themselves as
Mexicans, Africans, Russians, even Chinese and Japanese, they carry out this cunning ploy by being born into the various races.
Come to think of it, i'm getting cozy with the hunch that Islam is a global thing and all that race baiting is simply a satanic ploy by some evil people attempting to create confusion amongst the ignorant scum so that such scum develop a sense of bigoted loyalty to their own abusers and can then be utilized as pawns in their own ignominious enslavement as the usury game falls apart and attempts to evolve.

[Bmh2019]

Interesting points

[SintoDinto]

@SintoDinto Know what a white Muslim is?

Guess what?
Some Muslims disguise themselves as
Mexicans, Africans, Russians, even Chinese and Japanese, they carry out this cunning ploy by being born into the various races.
Come to think of it, i'm getting cozy with the hunch that Islam is a global thing and all that race baiting is simply a satanic ploy by some evil people attempting to create confusion amongst the ignorant scum so that such scum develop a sense of bigoted loyalty to their own abusers and can then be utilized as pawns in their own ignominious enslavement as the usury game falls apart and attempts to evolve.

interesting. i should have said non muslim whites. i guess turks and albanians count as whites, dont they? but as some black writers have said, what makes a man white but the people in power themselves? at one point greeks didnt count as whites.

['Abdullah]

@

fschmidtI read some of your posts on this topic and I agree the reaction of many Muslims was not appropriate. As Muslims we know that nothing happens without the will of Allah. Instead of blaming others, we should look at ourselves to see what we need to do to engage with those who have misconceptions about Islam.

Islam is a religion for entire humanity. Muslims in the West need to involve in a peaceful dialogue with all non-Muslims on all levels to remove the misunderstandings. Muslims should be going to churches, synagogues, temples etc. to convey the message of Islam and invite non-Muslims to their mosques for inter-faith dialogues. Instead of blaming whites or Westerns for their hate towards Islam, Muslims need to look at themselves and see if they are doing enough to promote Islam and its peaceful message.

Reality is that we are far from the teachings of Islam. Prophet Muhammad PBUH's mission of 23 years was to spread the message of Islam to all non-believers. How did he accomplished that? Through true love and concern for others even when they tried to kill him.

After his death, companions of Prophet Muhammad PBUH took over this role. We find graves of companions of prophet Muhammad PBUH even in China. Why they left Arabia? Because they had the duty to convey the message of Islam to those who never heard about it.

What are we doing as Muslims? We can't even have patience to read positive criticism by this brother? I mean look at all the replies to this post and most of those are an attempt to prove that all white nationalists are terrorists. Is this really true? What would have Prophet Muhammad PBUH said or done if he was living today?

Islam spread due to sincere concern and love for others even when they hate us. Islam spread due to the moral character of our beloved Prophet PBUH and his companions (May Allah be pleased with them all). We need to win the trust of those who hate Islam through our moral character by exercising patience and showing love and concern for them. That's what Quran teaches and that's what our beloved Prophet Muhammad PBUH did.

[fschmidt]

fschmidtI read some of your posts on this topic and I agree the reaction of many Muslims was not appropriate. As Muslims we know that nothing happens without the will of Allah. Instead of blaming others, we should look at ourselves to see what we need to do to engage with those who have misconceptions about Islam.

Thank you. This video that I made may interest you:

['Abdullah]

Thank you. This video that I made may interest you:

I heard the whole video, this is a normal dialogue which I would expect from any Muslim. I will list the main points of the debate in this video if I recall them and provide my input as well.

1. Fear of replacement by white nationalists. They fear that people coming from ME (Muslims and Jews) will eventually replace them, their culture and take up any job opportunities which were there for white people alone.

• I understand their fear but is it realistic? Is there any country in the world which has only black or white or brown people from the beginning of human life on this planet? In every country, we will find people which are from different cultures and have different ethnicity. All we need is to be tolerant to each other, talk to each other so that we know the similarities between us. Our similarities are far more than the differences. We can take good things from our cultures and create a better society.
• I also want to mention that Muslims are most tolerant and one should not fear from Muslims and their culture. Muslims not only let people of all races, cultures and belief system live in Islamic states in the past but they also let them practice what they believe. Let’s look into history:
• Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had forced their religion on any one, there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
• The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was a religion of tolerance and peace.
• Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never forced the people to convert. They never forced anyone to change their cultural believes. That’s the reason we have many Christians in the West. Ironically, it were the Christian Crusaders who came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan (the call for prayers).

2. Muslims do not allow non-Muslims to come and settle in their own lands to preserve their culture. For example, they discussed why Saudi Arabia does not allow permanent citizenship to Pakistani and Indians or to people from other cultures.

• Saudi Arabia does not allow permanent citizenship to Pakistan and Indians but if you get a chance to go to Saudi Arabia, you will see that there are many people from Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and other countries who have been working in Saudi Arabia for years. They don’t get permanent citizenship because of Govt. policies which has nothing to do with the religion of Islam.
• There are lot of Europeans who are going to Saudi Arabia and Saudi’s have no problem with them coming to SA and live there.

Final point I want to make is that Muslims don’t hate any race or people. We may disagree on moral laws or we may hate certain sins but Muslims don’t hate other human beings. In the sight of Allah all human beings are equal and created from single source. The Quran has denounced any sort of superiority - whether it be of race, language or skin color. In the heart of a Muslim, there is no room for arrogance and racism. Allah tells us that the diversity of life, and the various languages and colors of human beings, is a sign of Allah’s majesty, and a lesson for us to learn about humility, equality, and the appreciation of differences. I will like to end my post with some quotes from Quran:

Do you not see that Allah sends down rain from the sky? With it We then bring out produce of various colors. And in the mountains are tracts white and red, of various shades of color, and black intense in hue. And so amongst men, and crawling creatures, and cattle – they are of various colors. Those truly fear Allah, among His Servants, who have knowledge. For Allah is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving (Quran 35:27-28)

The verse above is beautifully describes the diversity of life not just things around us but also within human race as further illustrated in the verse below:

And among His wonders is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the diversity of your tongues and colors. For in this, behold, there are messages indeed for all who are possessed of innate knowledge! (Quran 30:22).

Oh men! Behold, We have created you all out of a male and a female, and have made you into nations and tribes, so that you might come to know one another. Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware (Quran 49:13).

We can talk about different rules and regulations made by human beings to address the issue of race but these rules and regulation do nothing to stop the hate which people of color have for each other. The only thing which binds us together is the Divine revelation. That why you will see among Muslims there are people of all colors, all cultures who speak different languages and have different cultural believes but still they love each other because they are Muslims. It is the love which Allah puts in our hearts and no human law can do that. Best example of this is seen during pilgrimage to Mecca.

Look at the video below about Malcolm X's experience when he performed Hajj (pilgrimage), it explains the issue of race and its solution in less than 5 minutes.

https://youtu.be/pCQ6sAso5ds

May Allah guide us all to Islam and help us all to follow the teaching of Islam in it true spirit. Ameen!

[Ahmed.]

Where did you get this opinion? Well really, I don't need to ask because I know. You were brainwashed by propaganda. You probably never had a serious conversation with a white nationalist in your life.


Jews? Now you are the racist. It isn't Jews, it is Judaism. Do you know why I hate Judaism? I hate Judaism because Judaism caused the Holocaust in which most of my family died. To be fair, I assign about 90% of the blame to Judaism and about 10% of the blame to the Nazis.

Judaism hates free speech because it is based on telling lies to the stupid goyim, people like you who will do what they want. Free speech risks exposing their lies. Judaism thrives on corruption, on buying off politicians and using the banking system to screw the people. This works for while until the system goes bankrupt and then the people revolt. This is how the Nazis came to power. And this could well happen again. The Talmudic strategy is the cause of Nazism. Of course it is in the interest of Judaism to have white nationalists and Muslims fight each other. You are doing exactly what they want. If Muslims don't wake up, the next far-right movement in Europe may well slaughter both Jews and Muslims. But if Muslims do wake up and cooperate with white nationalists, then Judaism can be peacefully expelled and then everyone else can live in peace.

Hi @fschmidt

I can vouch for Bhai that his opinion is correct, and you don't need to 'get it from anywhere' as its plain to see that 99.9%of white nationalists are belligerent evil racists.

The sunnah is to fight belligerents, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) was ordered to fight them, so we no longer are restricted by the 'pacifist' period of Islam before the order to fight was given

but ofcourse we have to abide by the law too, so rather than get our swords out, we need firm action against these animals and smash them like the anti-fascist groups do in their anti nazi marches. Being soft with these animals will only encourage them to attack us more.

Ofcourse we need to give them dawah (invitation) to the good, humane and Islamic way too and we do do that over the Internet etc as I'm sure these nutters are lurking around the net.

And saying Jews are behind anti hate speech law is not racist, its well known that they pull the strings of Western governments

Now if I said Jews were evil bankers, you can say that's racist, but how can attributing something good to Jews (like banning hate speech) be racist?

['Abdullah]

Hi Fschimdt

I can vouch for Bhai that his opinion is correct, and you don't need to 'get it from anywhere' as its plain to see that 99.9%of white nationalists are belligerent evil racists.

The sunnah is to fight belligerents, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) was ordered to fight them, so we no longer are restricted by the 'pacifist' period of Islam before the order to fight was given

but ofcourse we have to abide by the law too, so rather than get our swords out, we need firm action against these animals and smash them like the anti-fascist groups do in their anti nazi marches. Being soft with these animals will only encourage them to attack us more.

Ofcourse we need to give them dawah (invitation) to the good, humane and Islamic way too and we do do that over the Internet etc as I'm sure these nutters are lurking around the net.

And saying Jews are behind anti hate speech law is not racist, its well known that they pull the strings of Western governments

Now if I said Jews were evil bankers, you can say that's racist, but how can attributing something good to Jews (like banning hate speech) be racist?

And what is your evidence for this from Sunnah and Quran? Allah sent Prophet Moses to convey the message of Islam to Pharaoh even though Pharaoh claim to be God. Prophet Muhammad PBUH lived with people who hated Islam but what did he do? He did not took out his sword, he did the opposite which is to preach the message of Islam with love.

This type of negative thinking produce nothing but hate and drive people away from Islam. We don't focus on correcting ourselves instead blame everything on non-Muslims. That's one of the reason Muslims today are suffering all over the world and this situation will not change until we change ourselves and follow the true

teachings of Quran and the teachings of our prophet PBUH. Engage in dialogue with non-Muslim with sincerity and love, not with hate.

[Ahmed.]

And what is your evidence for this from Sunnah and Quran? Allah sent Prophet Moses to convey the message of Islam to Pharaoh even though Pharaoh claim to be God. Prophet Muhammad PBUH lived with people who hated Islam but what did he do? He did not took out his sword, he did the opposite which is to preach the message of Islam with love.

This type of negative thinking produce nothing but hate and drive people away from Islam. We don't focus on correcting ourselves instead blame everything on non-Muslims. That's one of the reason Muslims today are suffering all over the world and this situation will not change until we change ourselves and follow the true

teachings of Quran and the teachings of our prophet PBUH. Engage in dialogue with non-Muslim with sincerity and love, not with hate.

Salamuakikum

The evidence is, Allah revealed in Quran, after Prophet (saw) made hijrah to Medinah, 'fight them as they fight you...' (forgot the ref For this verse but its a famous one and just about all Muslims know it) ', so here is an order to fight the belligerents.

Also Allah says in Quran 'strike fear into their hearts' (I. E into the belligerents' hearts), and from Islamic talks I've heard that in view of hostile enemies, a Muslim should walk in a tough manner (sort of like a fearless soldier, or with a bold strut like the modern day 'gangstas') so as to strike fear in enemy's heart so he doesn't feel encouraged to attack you, and near peaceful people a Muslim should walk softly and humbly.

Let's not kid ourselves, them far right activists are hate mongering, inciting violence, abusing, baspheming our religion and attacking us (just look at EDL and Britain First party for example) and thats what the Makkan kuffar were doing to Muslims in Makkah, and as soon as Muslims were in a position to fight, Allah gave the order to fight.

Yes dawah goes on, but you have to meet aggression with like for like...

['Abdullah]

Salamuakikum

The evidence is, Allah revealed in Quran, after Prophet (saw) made hijrah to Medinah, 'fight them as they fight you...' (forgot the ref For this verse but its a famous one and just about all Muslims know it) ', so here is an order to fight the belligerents.

Also Allah says in Quran 'strike fear into their hearts' (I. E into the belligerents' hearts), and from Islamic talks I've heard that in view of hostile enemies, a Muslim should walk in a tough manner (sort of like a fearless soldier, or with a bold strut like the modern day 'gangstas') so as to strike fear in enemy's heart so he doesn't feel encouraged to attack you, and near peaceful people a Muslim should walk softly and humbly.

Let's not kid ourselves, them far right activists are hate mongering, inciting violence, abusing, baspheming our religion and attacking us (just look at EDL and Britain First party for example) and thats what the Makkan kuffar were doing to Muslims in Makkah, and as soon as Muslims were in a position to fight, Allah gave the order to fight.

Yes dawah goes on, but you have to meet aggression with like for like...

:wa:

First of all I love you my brother in Islam and I want you and everyone of us to be a true ambassador of Islam. That needs hard work. That needs to have patience, tolerance and the best of moral character.

Now going back to your post, you are making a very general statement by assuming that 99% of white nationalists are bad. This statement is false, you and I both know it. Non-Muslims have similar thoughts about Muslims and what do we say? Muslims are peaceful. ISIS and Al-Qaida are not Muslims and they don't represent what Muslims believe. But unfortunately what you are saying is nothing but ideology of ISIS and Al-Qaida. They take verses from Quran to legitimize their Jihad and you are trying to do the same. Please don't take it personally, we need to correct ourselves if we are wrong and there is nothing wrong in correcting our wrong understanding of Islam.

If all Muslims are not terrorists, we can apply the same logic to any racial or religious group. There are many good Christians, Jews, whites, blacks etc. We need to listen to the concerns of the white nationalists and talk to them in a polite and logical way. Their concern is that their culture in under threat. Their concern is that they may not be able to practice what they believe. Their concern is that they may loose their cultural values. Are these valid concerns? Yes they are. We Muslims don't want to compromise our cultures. Some times, our cultures actually becomes more important than religion. It is a sad reality but it is true. There are threads on this forum discussing how China is wiping out Muslims in their country. It is a concern for us, right? White nationalists have similar concerns and these concerns are valid concerns.

Human psychology is to listen to the problems of other people. Acknowledge that their concerns are valid and provide them a solution. That solution is not war against all non-Muslims. The solution is to show them good side of Islam which media never shows. It is duty of Muslims to treat non-Muslims nicely and upheld the Islamic moral values under all circumstances. See video below of a red neck typical white nationalist who saw good side of Islam and accepted Islam. This is how we spread Islam and change the world, not by promoting hate.

https://youtu.be/rPpvGyn89ss

I do want to mention one thing here. The main complain from Muslims is that media does not play a fair game. When a Muslims commits a crime, it is depicted as crime committed by all Muslims. Every Muslim feels ashamed for the crimes of one individual and people in the West expect us to apologize for something we did not even do. That is true mostly and I personally have experienced that. But not every non-Muslims trusts the media. I know that many good non-Muslims don't believe in media any more. Regardless, it is a fact that such negative news fuel anger and hate among some of the non-Muslims for Muslims.

Muslims expect that media in the West should also show the crimes committed by white nationalists and compare those to crimes committed by Muslims. It will not be hard to see where the main problem lies, its not in Islam but in the hate about Muslims. If that's your issue as well then I am with you. But this also shows that our main issues is misinformation about Islam which promotes hate and only way to negate that is through love and peace. Hate only begets hate where as love begets love.

Quran never promotes attacking people on just mere assumptions. Fight with non-Muslims is permitted only when non-Muslims attack you or oppress you or be a cause of corruption in the society. Show me a single verse in Quran where fight is allowed with non-Muslims on mere assumptions such as all white nationalists are bad. Did Prophet Muhammad PBUH engaged in wars against Jews? No, he did not. He was a true political leader. He worked out treaties to avoid wars. If someone breaks a treaty and rage a war against you then yes by all means you protect yourself and fight.

What happened at the conquest of Mecca? Did Prophet Muhammad PBUH killed any one? Whole City was conquered without killing a single person. That's the history we need to read and be proud of.

I also gave example above from golden age of Islam. Muslims lived peacefully in Spain for more than 800 years, they ruled sub-continued for over 1,000 years. I am sure people of other religions did not like Islam but they still lived together in peace and that's how Islam spread.

If anyone is telling you to go and fight with white nationalist, he/she is only promoting the agenda of ISIS and Al-Qaida which has nothing to do with Islam. Ask people who are accepting Islam in the West and you will see majority of them were inspired by good moral character of a Muslim. That's what inspired them to look into Islam. And that's something our Prophet Muhammad PBUH worked for 40 years to build before he was chosen as a prophet.

May Allah guide us to the correct understanding of the religion. Ameen! You are very active brother and I love your posts. I think it is my moral duty to correct you if you are wrong. My way may not be the best and I ask for your forgiveness if I have offended you in any way through my post.

Love you for the sake of Allah!

[Ahmed.]

Yes ofcourse brother, ambassadors of Islam indeed, however we are literally dealing with people who's ideology is to attack us, and this is why the response from us has to be the sunnah response of defensive attack back (within the perimeters of the law ofcourse)

Dawah has been served to the right wing extremists and it continues to be served, but at the same time we have to deter them from attacking us.... No one is put off from Islam when a people defend themselves so its not like we'll be bad examples if we do

Just look at what they did to the Jews in world war 2, the Jews who never lifted a finger in their defense just encouraged and emboldened these nazis to wipe them out

Neo nazis (and that's what the 'right wing' are, are not here to reason with us or to listen to us, they are looking for 'weak spots' to attack.... And the worst thing we can do is appear as sheeps to them. We have to be the wolves or else we end up like the Jews too

['Abdullah]

Yes ofcourse brother, ambassadors of Islam indeed, however we are literally dealing with people who's ideology is to attack us, and this is why the response from us has to be the sunnah response of defensive attack back (within the perimeters of the law ofcourse)

Dawah has been served to the right wing extremists and it continues to be served, but at the same time we have to deter them from attacking us.... No one is put off from Islam when a people defend themselves so its not like we'll be bad examples if we do

Just look at what they did to the Jews in world war 2, the Jews who never lifted a finger in their defense just encouraged and emboldened these nazis to wipe them out

Neo nazis (and that's what the 'right wing' are, are not here to reason with us or to listen to us, they are looking for 'weak spots' to attack.... And the worst thing we can do is appear as sheeps to them. We have to be the wolves or else we end up like the Jews too

I see where are you coming from, save that for an actual war. We are not in war with any one. First we need to invite them to Islam with love and wisdom. It is not wise to hate them and say Quran tell us to wage a war against those who hate us. Guess what that's exactly what they want to hear. This attitude confirm that Islam promotes killing and terrorism, in reality it does not.

I previously mentioned that Al-Qaida and ISIS used similar strategy. The difference between them and you is that they actually believed in their interpretation of Quran whole heartedly and them actually carried out so called Jihad at the name of Islam. Did it spread fear. It sure did. But what else happened? I gave an excuse to those who hated Islam to spread their own agenda of war against terrorism. That's why I advise that we need to be careful when we respond to non-Muslims especially. Every world which we write or which comes out of our mouth represents Islam. We should not say anything which Quran does not teach us.

Let's ponder over some of the verses in Surah An-Naziat:

Go to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed.
And say to him, 'Would you [be willing to] purify yourself.
And let me guide you to your Lord so you would fear [Him]? [Quran 79,17-19]

Pharaoh is one of the worst human being in history, the one who declared he is god. What did Allah (SWT) say to Prophet Moses PBUH? Did He (SWT) asked him to wage a war against Pharaoh? No, He (SWT) did not. Allah SWT asked Moses to go and convey the message of Islam to Pharaoh so that he can be purified. That's our first duty and this needs to be done with wisdom. In the best possible way one can. Threatening others is worst way of Dawah.

Regarding fight in the way of Allah, we have certain situations right now in several parts of the world where it is necessary for Muslims to stand up against oppression. Such examples include Palestine, Kashmir, Syria but it is sad to say that Muslims don't stand up where they need to. May Allah guide us all and give us wisdom to understand Islam and follow its teachings. Ameen!

edited.....

just watched another amazing conversion story of a well known Dutch ex politician Joram van Klaveren link below:
https://youtu.be/AXnSMrjlaWY

listen to the part between 10:00-12:00 and see how a wrong response from an ignorant Muslim initially turned him away from Islam. He also made a very important other comment between 29:00-31:00. You can watch whole video just as an inspiration and as something to learn to improve our dawah to non Muslims. If you don’t have enough time then may be just watch last 5 minutes of this video and the small 2 minute sections I mentioned before.

[Ahmed.]

I see where are you coming from, save that for an actual war. We are not in war with any one. First we need to invite them to Islam with love and wisdom. It is not wise to hate them and say Quran tell us to wage a war against those who hate us. Guess what that's exactly what they want to hear. This attitude confirm that Islam promotes killing and terrorism, in reality it does not.

I previously mentioned that Al-Qaida and ISIS used similar strategy. The difference between them and you is that they actually believed in their interpretation of Quran whole heartedly and them actually carried out so called Jihad at the name of Islam. Did it spread fear. It sure did. But what else happened? I gave an excuse to those who hated Islam to spread their own agenda of war against terrorism. That's why I advise that we need to be careful when we respond to non-Muslims especially. Every world which we write or which comes out of our mouth represents Islam. We should not say anything which Quran does not teach us.

Let's ponder over some of the verses in Surah An-Naziat:



Pharaoh is one of the worst human being in history, the one who declared he is god. What did Allah (SWT) say to Prophet Moses PBUH? Did He (SWT) asked him to wage a war against Pharaoh? No, He (SWT) did not. Allah SWT asked Moses to go and convey the message of Islam to Pharaoh so that he can be purified. That's our first duty and this needs to be done with wisdom. In the best possible way one can. Threatening others is worst way of Dawah.

Regarding fight in the way of Allah, we have certain situations right now in several parts of the world where it is necessary for Muslims to stand up against oppression. Such examples include Palestine, Kashmir, Syria but it is sad to say that Muslims don't stand up where they need to. May Allah guide us all and give us wisdom to understand Islam and follow its teachings. Ameen!

edited.....

just watched another amazing conversion story of a well known Dutch ex politician Joram van Klaveren link below:
https://youtu.be/AXnSMrjlaWY

listen to the part between 10:00-12:00 and see how a wrong response from an ignorant Muslim initially turned him away from Islam. He also made a very important other comment between 29:00-31:00. You can watch whole video just as an inspiration and as something to learn to improve our dawah to non Muslims. If you don’t have enough time then may be just watch last 5 minutes of this video and the small 2 minute sections I mentioned before.

BRuv, 50 muslims have been massacred in a mosque. Do a Google search of right wing extremists convicted of murder, terrorist attacks and attempted terrorism and then tell me if we are not already 'at war' with these nutters

When order to fight was given by Allah to Muslims, Muslims were being persecuted in Makkah in a similar way,

['Abdullah]

@Ahmed Muslims organized 9/11 to kill over 3,000 innocent people so whatever America and West is doing is right. Right? Your thinking is neither different from extreme white nationalists nor different from Al-Qaida and ISIS, I am sorry to say that.

Dont be so narrow minded and label all white nationalists as bad. You apparnatlty neither watched the interview posted by @fschmidtnor did you watch short clips I referred to so we can learn from out mistakes and improve to give an effective Dawah. Anyways I am not going to argue with you. You are responsible for your own deeds/actions.

One more video below for you to see how another white nationalist converted to Islam, proving that not all white nationalists are bad.
https://youtu.be/pQG-oIMSbco

[Ahmed.]

@Ahmed Muslims organized 9/11 to kill over 3,000 innocent people so whatever America and West is doing is right. Right? Your thinking is neither different from extreme white nationalists nor different from Al-Qaida and ISIS, I am sorry to say that.

Dont be so narrow minded and label all white nationalists as bad. You apparnatlty neither watched the interview posted by @fschmidtnor did you watch short clips I referred to so we can learn from out mistakes and improve to give an effective Dawah. Anyways I am not going to argue with you. You are responsible for your own deeds/actions.

One more video below for you to see how another white nationalist converted to Islam, proving that not all white nationalists are bad.
https://youtu.be/pQG-oIMSbco

No brother I didn't say whatever Muslims do in response is right. Obviously there needs to be a measured response that is appropriate. Scum need to be treated as such and kept in their places so they don't get deluded as to the unacceptable nature of their evil.

Far right groups have very little or no support in the West and that's because people in general, the media and the politicians alike alway treat them like the crazy scum that they are. Their ideology is one of a crazy anti-semetic conspiracy theory and of hate for their fellow mankind so Dialoguing with them as if their ideology was valid or reasonable is not an option.

We have Converts to Islam from all walks of life and thats because our dawah is for everyone: just like the sahaba (ra) kept up the dawah amidst fighting and being harsh with the Makkah kuffar, but the dawah consisted of the Islamic message and not ideological debates

[Ahmed.]

PS: And that man in the video, his turning point towards Islam was, when his little daughter looked at him as though he was a raving mad looney :). That's what hits home for these guys, treating them for the loonies that they are :)

['Abdullah]

We have Converts to Islam from all walks of life and thats because our dawah is for everyone: just like the sahaba (ra) kept up the dawah amidst fighting and being harsh with the Makkah kuffar, but the dawah consisted of the Islamic message and not ideological debates

I agree that our Dawah shall be for EVERYONE and it means everyone.

Its a privilege that some of us are born as Muslims but this means we got some advantage over others. Imagine, if we are to be born as a non-Muslim, who knows what our fate would have been? Allah chose us to be the Muslims and it comes with huge responsibility. That responsibility is to spread the Islam in the best possible way. We know that we have to be the best of human kind because Allah chose us to be Muslims. Let's not judge people as only Allah knows what is in their hearts and Allah guides whom He wills.

['Abdullah]

PS: And that man in the video, his turning point towards Islam was, when his little daughter looked at him as though he was a raving mad looney :). That's what hits home for these guys, treating them for the loonies that they are :)

Point is that this guy was guided to Islam because Allah opened his heart towards Islam. There must be something good in his heart which Allah saw and blessed him with the gift of Islam. Let's keep working together to give an effective Dawah without judging people and without any expectations. Our job is only to remind people, we should not push and force people in any way.

Quran says:

So remind, [O Muhammad]; you are only a reminder.
You are not over them a controller. [Quran 88,21-22]

This is what Allah says to Prophet Muhammad PBUH then who are we to force our belief on others. Giving Dawah is not an easy job. It requires a lot of patience. But trust me it works and benefits us more than others. When we give Dawah, the belief in hereafter is not just left as a belief. It becomes reality. We can literally imagine ourselves being resurrected and standing in front of Allah while praying. When we go to sleep, we can literally feel ourselves in the darkness of the grave where no one is going to help us but our good actions done purely for the pleasure of Allah (SWT).
May Allah SWT give us patience and ability to deliver the message of Islam to others in the best way possible. Ameen!
May Allah help us to save others from disbelief and helps us save ourselves and our families from the punishment of grave and eternal fire! Ameen!

[سيف الله]

Salaam

This is relevant to the debate. Good outline of the problems with White Nationalism.

Embedded Tweet

[anatolian]

An anti-islamic and anti-muslim sentiment acompannies every white nationalism as far as I have realized. If a white nationalist is able to explain himself in a peaceful manner I can accept that but I have yet to seen. Once we had a Muslim white nationalist member in the forum but his ideas were also so weired.

[fschmidt]

If a white nationalist is able to explain himself in a peaceful manner I can accept that but I have yet to seen.

Did you listen to the video I posted?

['Abdullah]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...arole-kec6a5nb

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? ...

['Abdullah]

Any reaction to this sentence? Why it took them almost 2 years to reach this sentence ( life in prison without parole)? Is it fair to have a life sentence and let this monster live on tax payers money? What example we want to setup for other extremists like him? Would not an execution in public make more sense in this case?

['Abdullah]

51 people were killed. Suppose he lives another 50 years, that's like an year per life

[Avis]

51 people were killed. Suppose he lives another 50 years, that's like an year per life

Well, the Muslims will get justice on Judgement Day. If the doesn't submit to Allah before then, he will get a worse punishment than was any human can give him. We should know not to ever rely on a government based on secular man made laws.

['Abdullah]

Well, the Muslims will get justice on Judgement Day. If the doesn't submit to Allah before then, he will get a worse punishment than was any human can give him. We should know not to ever rely on a government based on secular man made laws.

The purpose of my posts was to show that how man made law can never provide justice and in fact supports corruption in the society but one needs to have a deeper insight into our Deen to see it.
I was also thinking that perhaps Allah is giving this guy another chance to think and reflect while in prison. Allah is Merciful and gives everyone plenty of chances to turn back on the straight path - this reminds of a Hadith:

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
There was a person before you who had killed ninety-nine persons and then made an inquiry about the learned persons of the world (who could show him the way to salvation). He was directed to a monk. He came to him and told him that he had killed ninety-nine persons and asked him whether there was any scope for his repentance to be accepted. He said: No. He killed him also and thus completed one hundred. He then asked about the learned persons of the earth and he was directed to a scholar, and he told him that he had killed one hundred persons and asked him whether there was any scope for his repentance to be accepted. He said: Yes; what stands between you and the repentance? You better go to such and such land; there are people devoted to prayer and worship and you also worship along with them and do not come to the land of yours since it was an evil land (for you). So he went away and he had hardly covered half the distance when death came to him and there was a dispute between the angels of mercy and the angels of punishment. The angels of mercy said: This man has come as a penitant and remorseful to Allah and the angels of punishment said: He has done no good at all. Then there came another angel in the form of a human being in order to decide between them. He said: You measure the land to which he has drawn near. They measured it and found him nearer to the land where he intended to go (the land of piety), and so the angels of mercy took possession of it. Qatada said that Hasan told him that it was said to them that as death approached him, he crawled upon his chest (and managed) to slip in the land of mercy.
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، وَمُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لاِبْنِ الْمُثَنَّى - قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُعَاذُ بْنُ هِشَامٍ، حَدَّثَنِي أَبِي، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي الصِّدِّيقِ، عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ، أَنَّ نَبِيَّ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ كَانَ فِيمَنْ كَانَ قَبْلَكُمْ رَجُلٌ قَتَلَ تِسْعَةً وَتِسْعِينَ نَفْسًا فَسَأَلَ عَنْ أَعْلَمِ أَهْلِ الأَرْضِ فَدُلَّ عَلَى رَاهِبٍ فَأَتَاهُ فَقَالَ إِنَّهُ قَتَلَ تِسْعَةً وَتِسْعِينَ نَفْسًا فَهَلْ لَهُ مِنَ تَوْبَةٍ فَقَالَ لاَ ‏.‏ فَقَتَلَهُ فَكَمَّلَ بِهِ مِائَةً ثُمَّ سَأَلَ عَنْ أَعْلَمِ أَهْلِ الأَرْضِ فَدُلَّ عَلَى رَجُلٍ عَالِمٍ فَقَالَ إِنَّهُ قَتَلَ مِائَةَ نَفْسٍ فَهَلْ لَهُ مِنْ تَوْبَةٍ فَقَالَ نَعَمْ وَمَنْ يَحُولُ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ التَّوْبَةِ انْطَلِقْ إِلَى أَرْضِ كَذَا وَكَذَا فَإِنَّ بِهَا أُنَاسًا يَعْبُدُونَ اللَّهَ فَاعْبُدِ اللَّهَ مَعَهُمْ وَلاَ تَرْجِعْ إِلَى أَرْضِكَ فَإِنَّهَا أَرْضُ سَوْءٍ ‏.‏ فَانْطَلَقَ حَتَّى إِذَا نَصَفَ الطَّرِيقَ أَتَاهُ الْمَوْتُ فَاخْتَصَمَتْ فِيهِ مَلاَئِكَةُ الرَّحْمَةِ وَمَلاَئِكَةُ الْعَذَابِ فَقَالَتْ مَلاَئِكَةُ الرَّحْمَةِ جَاءَ تَائِبًا مُقْبِلاً بِقَلْبِهِ إِلَى اللَّهِ ‏.‏ وَقَالَتْ مَلاَئِكَةُ الْعَذَابِ إِنَّهُ لَمْ يَعْمَلْ خَيْرًا قَطُّ ‏.‏ فَأَتَاهُمْ مَلَكٌ فِي صُورَةِ آدَمِيٍّ فَجَعَلُوهُ بَيْنَهُمْ فَقَالَ قِيسُوا مَا بَيْنَ الأَرْضَيْنِ فَإِلَى أَيَّتِهِمَا كَانَ أَدْنَى فَهُوَ لَهُ ‏.‏ فَقَاسُوهُ فَوَجَدُوهُ أَدْنَى إِلَى الأَرْضِ الَّتِي أَرَادَ فَقَبَضَتْهُ مَلاَئِكَةُ الرَّحْمَةِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ قَتَادَةُ فَقَالَ الْحَسَنُ ذُكِرَ لَنَا أَنَّهُ لَمَّا أَتَاهُ الْمَوْتُ نَأَى بِصَدْرِهِ ‏.‏
Reference : Sahih Muslim 2766 a
In-book reference : Book 50, Hadith 54
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 37, Hadith 6662
https://sunnah.com/muslim/50/54

If one still hates Islam then he is to blame none but himself.

[IslamLife00]

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