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Stoic
04-08-2019, 06:24 PM
He's going to b 1. My family never celebrated birthdays but wife family does. There would b a cake but no candles cuz I know the candle thing is not of our religion. But just gifts food and present. Also gonna have a banner saying my sons name 1st birthday. Perfectly fine?
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AbdurRahman.
04-08-2019, 06:31 PM
some say it's ok as it's not based on non-Muslim religion:

http://binbayyah.net/english/holiday...ous-overtones/
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Stoic
04-08-2019, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by AbdurRahman.
some say it's ok as it's not based on non-Muslim religion:

http://binbayyah.net/english/holiday...ous-overtones/
So if it's non Muslim thing its...okayyy..wutttt??
Reply

AbdurRahman.
04-08-2019, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Stoic
So if it's non Muslim thing its...okayyy..wutttt??
Have a read in that link. The Shaykh explains it quite good with evidences
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BeTheChange
04-08-2019, 07:47 PM
Walaikumasalaam

It is very upsetting that we fail to educate ourselves about Islam. What will become of our children if we give them a watered down deen or as sheikh calls it a modified deen...they have no chance because we have failed as parents and we will be the ones responsible on the day of qiymaat. Stop following your wife, trends, society, culture. Lets all follow Islam the way Allah swt has taught us.

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AbdurRahman.
04-08-2019, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by BeTheChange
Walaikumasalaam

It is very upsetting that we fail to educate ourselves about Islam. What will become of our children if we give them a watered down deen or as sheikh calls it a modified deen...they have no chance because we have failed as parents and we will be the ones responsible on the day of qiymaat. Stop following your wife, trends, society, culture. Lets all follow Islam the way Allah swt has taught us.

JazakAllah bro, so what's all this about a 'difference of opinion' on this site?:

https://islamqa.org/hanafi/qibla-hanafi/34349
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Stoic
04-08-2019, 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by BeTheChange
Walaikumasalaam

It is very upsetting that we fail to educate ourselves about Islam. What will become of our children if we give them a watered down deen or as sheikh calls it a modified deen...they have no chance because we have failed as parents and we will be the ones responsible on the day of qiymaat. Stop following your wife, trends, society, culture. Lets all follow Islam the way Allah swt has taught us.

its just a harmless non religious celebration tho? Just getting together having food and presents
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CuriousonTruth
04-08-2019, 10:38 PM
A bit related question: is there any record or proof of 'birthday' being celebrated in muslim states before 20th century.
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Zafran
04-09-2019, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by Stoic
He's going to b 1. My family never celebrated birthdays but wife family does. There would b a cake but no candles cuz I know the candle thing is not of our religion. But just gifts food and present. Also gonna have a banner saying my sons name 1st birthday. Perfectly fine?
There are people who celebrate birthdays all over the planet - heck there are modern muslim states who celebrate the birth of nations including salafi Saudi Arabia - the mawlid (the birth of the prophet Muhammad pbuh) is celebrated all around the planet.

It boils down to definition of the Bida - one group (majoirty salafi and other minorities) have a very strict and puritanical definition of it where any birthdays, collective duas, praying for the dead every year is seen as wrong.

The other majority opinion (hanafi, shafi, malikis ashari, maturdi) allow birthdays and the above as long as Nothing intrinsically against the principles of Islam is happening.

Yasir qadhi explains the history about the differences below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAeoqH8kzXY
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*charisma*
04-09-2019, 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by Stoic
He's going to b 1. My family never celebrated birthdays but wife family does. There would b a cake but no candles cuz I know the candle thing is not of our religion. But just gifts food and present. Also gonna have a banner saying my sons name 1st birthday. Perfectly fine?

This isn't something he will remember, therefore it's not even necessary. If you lived all your life not celebrating birthdays why start now? It's obvious from your previous posts that your wife is not the person to follow in this. Save the gifts and celebrations for eid, it will be better for you and for your son to experience eid with gifts and halal celebrations than to put your efforts into birthdays and haram holidays.
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Zafran
04-09-2019, 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
This isn't something he will remember, therefore it's not even necessary. If you lived all your life not celebrating birthdays why start now? It's obvious from your previous posts that your wife is not the person to follow in this. Save the gifts and celebrations for eid, it will be better for you and for your son to experience eid with gifts and halal celebrations than to put your efforts into birthdays and haram holidays.
it depends on his culture - celebrating the birthday of your child is a good thing and shouldn't be frowned upon.
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*charisma*
04-09-2019, 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
it depends on his culture - celebrating the birthday of your child is a good thing and shouldn't be frowned upon.
Islam is not based in culture. He should put the love of the sunnah and deen in the hearts of his children instead of silly birthdays. Secondly what is the good thing about it? His son will not remember it, and him and his wife are both adults who can find better ways to make memories with their children than to mimic Pagan traditions. You just need to look at the history of something to know whether it is incorrect or not. Just because it has become widespread doesn't mean it is right all of the sudden. If it was haram at one point, it is probably haram today.
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Zafran
04-09-2019, 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Islam is not based in culture. He should put the love of the sunnah and deen in the hearts of his children instead of silly birthdays. Secondly what is the good thing about it? His son will not remember it, and him and his wife are both adults who can find better ways to make memories with their children than to mimic Pagan traditions. You just need to look at the history of something to know whether it is incorrect or not. Just because it has become widespread doesn't mean it is right all of the sudden. If it was haram at one point, it is probably haram today.
Islam doesn't come to destroy culture - the Africans stay African - they keep there cultural celebrations and practice Islam - the same with Arabs who were pagans, the Persians, the Turks, people from India and now western people. Alienate people from one culture for another isnt Islamic and shouldn't be sold as such.

Birthdays are not silly - keeps family ties together, gift giving and being thankful for life - its a cultural practice that shouldn't be negated.

Humans are not all the same - there cultural, historical and aesthetic identity shouldn't be destroyed. Rather it should be celebrated.
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*charisma*
04-09-2019, 06:17 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Islam doesn't come to destroy culture - the Africans stay African - they keep there cultural celebrations and practice Islam - the same with Arabs who were pagans, the Persians, the Turks, people from India and now western people. Alienate people from one culture for another isnt Islamic and shouldn't be sold as such.

Birthdays are not silly - keeps family ties together, gift giving and being thankful for life - its a cultural practice that shouldn't be negated.

Humans are not all the same - there cultural, historical and aesthetic identity shouldn't be destroyed. Rather it should be celebrated.
You're not destroying culture if you're not celebrating a birthday. To make such a statement is going a bit overboard. As you already know, birthdays are not specific to any culture because they are done in practically every country. Islam takes into consideration 'urf, but it still has to be compatible with shariah. My issue with what you're saying is that you're actually promoting birthdays as if one's life, iman, identity will be destroyed without them. Birthdays are not a part of identity at all. The components that make a birthday "special" can be done at anytime. Muslims need to put more emphasis on our respective eids and make them more enjoyable to children than birthdays and other holidays. Instilling noble acts such as gift giving, connecting with family, and being humble and thankful should not be done via a holiday which began by polytheists. To me it portrays a level of arrogance for someone to feel they need to be celebrated on their birthday. We should celebrate the personal accomplishments of an individual rather than inflating their ego with a birthday simply because they were born. If you're happy you have a child, your gratitude should be to Allah and it should not be announced just once every year. IF something in a culture is haram, against Islam, historically dubious, harmful, it should not continued to be practiced even if it were practiced for thousands of years prior. If someone has the taqwa to leave such practices and replace them with something better then we should encourage that.
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ZeeshanParvez
04-09-2019, 07:29 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Islam doesn't come to destroy culture - the Africans stay African - they keep there cultural celebrations and practice Islam - the same with Arabs who were pagans, the Persians, the Turks, people from India and now western people. Alienate people from one culture for another isnt Islamic and shouldn't be sold as such.

Birthdays are not silly - keeps family ties together, gift giving and being thankful for life - its a cultural practice that shouldn't be negated.

Humans are not all the same - there cultural, historical and aesthetic identity shouldn't be destroyed. Rather it should be celebrated.

That is such an incorrect usage of the Usuul al-fiqh principle of 'Urf.
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Studentofdeed
04-09-2019, 07:33 AM
Birthdays I would say are makrooh and not permissible as the Prophet SAW and his companions did not practice it. He said to avoid practicing the customs of nonmuslims as we do not want to be like them. The best thing you can do is celebrate muslim events like Ramadan, and the eids. But you can always buy gifts and food for your family and son provided it is not for birthday because we should not celebrate non Muslim customs
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Zafran
04-09-2019, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
You're not destroying culture if you're not celebrating a birthday. To make such a statement is going a bit overboard. As you already know, birthdays are not specific to any culture because they are done in practically every country. Islam takes into consideration 'urf, but it still has to be compatible with shariah. My issue with what you're saying is that you're actually promoting birthdays as if one's life, iman, identity will be destroyed without them. Birthdays are not a part of identity at all. The components that make a birthday "special" can be done at anytime. Muslims need to put more emphasis on our respective eids and make them more enjoyable to children than birthdays and other holidays. Instilling noble acts such as gift giving, connecting with family, and being humble and thankful should not be done via a holiday which began by polytheists. To me it portrays a level of arrogance for someone to feel they need to be celebrated on their birthday. We should celebrate the personal accomplishments of an individual rather than inflating their ego with a birthday simply because they were born. If you're happy you have a child, your gratitude should be to Allah and it should not be announced just once every year. IF something in a culture is haram, against Islam, historically dubious, harmful, it should not continued to be practiced even if it were practiced for thousands of years prior. If someone has the taqwa to leave such practices and replace them with something better then we should encourage that.
Being alive and thankful to God and making people feel part of a community through gift giving can happen at any time including religious festivals (eid) or non religious festivals like birth of nation, special days in some countries and birthdays. Something is only "polytheistic" if it goes against creed or aqeada not fiqh issues.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
That is such an incorrect usage of the Usuul al-fiqh principle of 'Urf.
what basis.
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*charisma*
04-10-2019, 03:35 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Being alive and thankful to God and making people feel part of a community through gift giving can happen at any time including religious festivals (eid) or non religious festivals like birth of nation, special days in some countries and birthdays.
Yea, we've already established that. Which is why I'm saying as Muslims, it is not required nor necessary to celebrate birthdays. We are not kuffar. If they place importance on birthdays, that's their business.

Originally Posted by Zafran
Something is only "polytheistic" if it goes against creed or aqeada not fiqh issues.
That makes no sense. Birthday celebrations come from polytheistic traditions. To continue a tradition based from polytheism is imitating kuffar. You are literally preserving the traditions of another religion instead of focusing on your own. Is it ok to imitate the kufaar in that respect? It isn't. If this was practiced by Pagans and Islam came about at that time, do you think it is a practice that would have been allowed to continue?? Absolutely not. So if it would not have been allowed then, why would it be ok now?
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ZeeshanParvez
04-10-2019, 09:01 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Yea, we've already established that. Which is why I'm saying as Muslims, it is not required nor necessary to celebrate birthdays. We are not kuffar. If they place importance on birthdays, that's their business.

That makes no sense. Birthday celebrations come from polytheistic traditions. To continue a tradition based from polytheism is imitating kuffar. You are literally preserving the traditions of another religion instead of focusing on your own. Is it ok to imitate the kufaar in that respect? It isn't. If this was practiced by Pagans and Islam came about at that time, do you think it is a practice that would have been allowed to continue?? Absolutely not. So if it would not have been allowed then, why would it be ok now?
Very true.


The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) has been reported as saying:

He who copies any people is one of them


[Sunan Abi Daawud]


This is a general statement and is not limited to just aqiidah. Rather, we have another hadiith which deals with Fiqh where this has been applied



Narrated Aws ibn Thabit al-Ansari:



The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said: Act differently from the Jews, for they do not pray in their sandals or their shoes.


Ibn Hajar comments on the hadiith saying:

فيكون استحباب ذلك من جهة قصد المخالفة المذكورة

Doing so (i.e. praying in sandals) is mustaHabb from the perspective of having the intention to oppose (the Jews) mentioned (in the Hadiith)





May Allaah guide ppl to speak based on knowledge or remain silent.


Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:


The Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day must either speak good or remain silent."

[Sahiih Muslim]
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Insaanah
04-10-2019, 08:46 PM
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Although not a daleel for us, it is worth noting that even not all Christians celebrate birthdays. Jehovah's Witnesses and some others believe it wrong to celebrate birthdays, either of religious figures, their own, or their childrens'.

Firstly they say Jesus (as) didn't command them to celebrate birthdays, the bible doesn't command them to, and the early Christians never celebrated birthdays. As Muslims, the same goes for us, no example from our scriptures, our prophet (saws) or the sahabah (raa). This includes the prophets (saws) birthday, there is no example.

Secondly, birthdays are pagan in origin, according to all historical research. Some say Egyptian origins, some say Roman, some say earlier, but all agree the origin is from pagan beliefs. The birth date of pharoahs became a celebration for when they were considered to have transformed into gods. Horoscopes were cast on this day. In other societies there were also beliefs that evil spirits visited a person each year on the date he was born, thus the need for candles, and gathering to scare them away etc. Gifts would appease the evil spirits.
Jehovahs witnesses believe following practices rooted in pagan customs, rites, and origins, is forbidden to them (although they still have beliefs re: Jesus (as) that Islam would regard as shirk). As Muslims, this avoidance of pagan origin customs applies to Muslims more. How is it that non-Muslims are trying to avoid pagan practices more than Muslims? It should be the other way around!

Thirdly, is a year closer to death, less time to do good deeds something to celebrate as Muslims? Food for thought.

We so blindly get caught up in just following what most others around us do in society, viewing it as harmless and without giving it much thought...

Let us make the two eids our celebrations, and let us give gifts, express love, gather, try to make others happy, at Eid and also any and all times throughout the year, without singling out birthdays..
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Zafran
04-10-2019, 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Yea, we've already established that. Which is why I'm saying as Muslims, it is not required nor necessary to celebrate birthdays. We are not kuffar. If they place importance on birthdays, that's their business.
It seems you dont recognize that people celebrate all sorts of days in all sorts of cultures. The brothers asking can he celebrate his sons birthday - the obvious answer would be yes unless your a salafi and think that any celebration outside of eids is a blameworthy bida.


Originally Posted by *charisma*
That makes no sense. Birthday celebrations come from polytheistic traditions. To continue a tradition based from polytheism is imitating kuffar. You are literally preserving the traditions of another religion instead of focusing on your own. Is it ok to imitate the kufaar in that respect? It isn't. If this was practiced by Pagans and Islam came about at that time, do you think it is a practice that would have been allowed to continue?? Absolutely not. So if it would not have been allowed then, why would it be ok now?
No they are not the prophet fasted on the day he was born - The Quran talks about the day Jesus pbuh was born as it does about John pbuh. Point being there is nothing intrinsically bad about celebrating the day your born. This is a fiqh issue and not a creed based issue - something people get confused over all the time. the days of the week in English and the months are based on roman mythology that nobody believes in. The same could be said about plenty of Arab customs that just carried over from the pagan days - this also includes Turkish and Persian culture as it does with African, European and sub continent.

Of course Birthdays are not religious thing anymore anyway its a cultural thing and as long as nothing haram is happening I'm not sure how one can be against it.
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*charisma*
04-11-2019, 01:16 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
It seems you dont recognize that people celebrate all sorts of days in all sorts of cultures. The brothers asking can he celebrate his sons birthday - the obvious answer would be yes unless your a salafi and think that any celebration outside of eids is a blameworthy bida.
We aren't talking about other celebrations. This is strictly about birthdays. Birthday celebrating could only be considered bidaa in the way you present it, as something which is "necessary in the deen" when it very clearly is not and never was.


Originally Posted by Zafran
No they are not the prophet fasted on the day he was born - The Quran talks about the day Jesus pbuh was born as it does about John pbuh. Point being there is nothing intrinsically bad about celebrating the day your born. This is a fiqh issue and not a creed based issue - something people get confused over all the time. the days of the week in English and the months are based on roman mythology that nobody believes in. The same could be said about plenty of Arab customs that just carried over from the pagan days - this also includes Turkish and Persian culture as it does with African, European and sub continent.

Of course Birthdays are not religious thing anymore anyway its a cultural thing and as long as nothing haram is happening I'm not sure how one can be against it.
Which day was the prophet Isa born? His birth was mentioned because it was a special birth from a virgin, not because birthdays should be celebrated. About customs originating from paganism, I'm not really sure what you're referring to here. And even if it is still practiced and it is wrongful practice it shouldn't be continued.
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Zafran
04-11-2019, 04:23 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
We aren't talking about other celebrations. This is strictly about birthdays. Birthday celebrating could only be considered bidaa in the way you present it, as something which is "necessary in the deen" when it very clearly is not and never was.
where did one say its "neccessary in the deen" the person asked if he could celebrate his sons birthday and the answer should be yes.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by *charisma*
Which day was the prophet Isa born? His birth was mentioned because it was a special birth from a virgin, not because birthdays should be celebrated. About customs originating from paganism, I'm not really sure what you're referring to here. And even if it is still practiced and it is wrongful practice it shouldn't be continued.
originating from paganism is a mute point as its clear that the prophet fasted the day he was born. If your going full on genetic fallacy then you might as well not name the days of the week or the names of the months as they are based on Roman mythology. Or logic for that matter.

The bottom line is that the guy asked if he could celebrate his kids first birthday - This shouldn't even be seen as a deen Issue.
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AbdurRahman.
04-11-2019, 08:50 AM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez


The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) has been reported as saying:

He who copies any people is one of them


[Sunan Abi Daawud]


Mufti Taqi Uthmani (D.B) in Taqreer Tirimizi (p.331 v.2) has written that there are two types of imitation:

One does something with the intention of imitating the disbelievers, meaning one does so because he wants to be like one of them.

One does something without the intention of imitating them, but his actions are similar to theirs. This is however not unlawful but Makruh Tanzihi

http://daruliftabirmingham.co.uk/birthdays/

.
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ZeeshanParvez
04-11-2019, 09:57 AM
It is pretty evident that you should not celebrate your son's birthdays. You will always have people confuse you. But since they have confused you and now it has become a gray matter in your mind, I urge you to heed the following.


An-Nu’man bin Bashir narrated, I heard Allah‘s Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) saying, (Nu'man pointed with his two fingers to his ears) ‘Both lawful (Halal) and unlawful things (Haram) are evident but in between them there are doubtful things·and most people have no knowledge about them.

So he, who saves himself from these doubtful things, saves his religion and his honor (i.e. keeps them blameless). And he who indulges in these doubtful things is like a shepherd who pastures (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is what He declared unlawful (Haram). Beware In the body there is a piece of flesh if it becomes sound and healthy, the whole body becomes sound and healthy but if it gets spoilt, the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.”

[Sahiih al-Bukhaari and Sahiih Muslim]


We live in times when clear matters are even made into doubtful ones. It is clear that you should not celebrate his birthday. There is no doubt about it.

But since we have people who have created a doubt in your mind, you are now left with acting on the following hadiith.


Save your Diin. Life is short. No one knows when it will be over. Save your Diin.
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azc
04-11-2019, 10:08 AM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
It is pretty evident that you should not celebrate your son's birthdays. You will always have people confuse you. But since they have confused you and now it has become a gray matter in your mind, I urge you to heed the following.


An-Nu’man bin Bashir narrated, I heard Allah‘s Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) saying, (Nu'man pointed with his two fingers to his ears) ‘Both lawful (Halal) and unlawful things (Haram) are evident but in between them there are doubtful things·and most people have no knowledge about them.

So he, who saves himself from these doubtful things, saves his religion and his honor (i.e. keeps them blameless). And he who indulges in these doubtful things is like a shepherd who pastures (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is what He declared unlawful (Haram). Beware In the body there is a piece of flesh if it becomes sound and healthy, the whole body becomes sound and healthy but if it gets spoilt, the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.”

[Sahiih al-Bukhaari and Sahiih Muslim]


We live in times when clear matters are even made into doubtful ones. It is clear that you should not celebrate his birthday. There is no doubt about it.

But since we have people who have created a doubt in your mind, you are now left with acting on the following hadiith.


Save your Diin. Life is short. No one knows when it will be over. Save your Diin.
Saudi Arabia National Day:


Each year, the unification of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is celebrated on the 23rd of September, hence the name “Unification of the Kingdom Day (Saudi Arabia National Day).” This is the country’s only public secular holiday and it takes place on the anniversary of the day Saudi Arabia was founded in the year 1932.''

What is the fatwa of islamq.info about this birthday celebration of Saudi Arabia...?
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ZeeshanParvez
04-11-2019, 10:17 AM
Originally Posted by azc
Saudi Arabia National Day:


Each year, the unification of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is celebrated on the 23rd of September, hence the name “Unification of the Kingdom Day (Saudi Arabia National Day).” This is the country’s only public secular holiday and it takes place on the anniversary of the day Saudi Arabia was founded in the year 1932.''

What is the fatwa of islamq.info about this birthday celebration of Saudi Arabia...?
Do I look like a Saudi?

Do I celebrate national day?

Do I care what Islamqa has to say about them?

No, I am not like you, a blind follower.
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azc
04-11-2019, 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
Do I look like a Saudi?Do I celebrate national day?Do I care what Islamqa has to say about them?No, I am not like you, a blind follower.
then what is the fatwa of al albani, uthaymin, ibn baaz and your other salafi scholars about this kind of birthday celebrations...?
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CuriousonTruth
04-11-2019, 11:07 AM
This forum is confusing to me. Sometimes it is excessively liberal, sometimes it is excessively conservative.

In another thread by this guy, everyone was encouraging him to marry a woman who had a sinful sexual past.

So on the one hand, the people here were making excuses for such a nasty thing but on the other hand they have a massive problem with birthdays which is harmless and trivial.

Makes sense.
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azc
04-11-2019, 11:22 AM
Originally Posted by Stoic
He's going to b 1. My family never celebrated birthdays but wife family does. There would b a cake but no candles cuz I know the candle thing is not of our religion. But just gifts food and present. Also gonna have a banner saying my sons name 1st birthday. Perfectly fine?
https://stepfeed.com/saudis-are-cele...0%2C2722006054
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ZeeshanParvez
04-11-2019, 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth
This forum is confusing to me. Sometimes it is excessively liberal, sometimes it is excessively conservative.

In another thread by this guy, everyone was encouraging him to marry a woman who had a sinful sexual past.

So on the one hand, the people here were making excuses for such a nasty thing but on the other hand they have a massive problem with birthdays which is harmless and trivial.

Makes sense.
That is horrible.

He has to repent from his sin. She has to repent from her sin. Only then can they marry according to the Hanaabilah.

But this is what you get when people speak without knowledge.

A massive contradiction.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Stoic
He's going to b 1. My family never celebrated birthdays but wife family does. There would b a cake but no candles cuz I know the candle thing is not of our religion. But just gifts food and present. Also gonna have a banner saying my sons name 1st birthday. Perfectly fine?
Since some people love to derail threads based on their blind following and sectarian issues, I once I again urge to act on the words of the Messegner of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

Ignorant people have created doubts in your mind because their whims want them to celebrate birthdays. Probably because they do not have it in them to not do so when their first child is born.

You need to rise above letting your child becoming a trial for you. Please do not celebrate his birthday.

There will be many challenges ahead of you. Your child will grow up looking at you. He will look at you as his role model.




Do you not want a child who grows up pious so he can be a source of good deeds for you. A recurring charity?

that Abu Hurayrah said: “The good deeds that will reach a believer after his death are: knowledge which he learned and then spread; a righteous son whom he leaves behind; a copy of the Qur’aan that he leaves as a legacy; a mosque that he built; a house that he built for wayfarers; a canal that he dug; or charity that he gave during his lifetime when he was in good health. These deeds will reach him after his death.”

Ibn Maajah 242


Please follow the way of the Messenger of Allaah (Sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) as come down to us in the authentic hadith:


An-Nu’man bin Bashir narrated, I heard Allah‘s Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) saying, (Nu'man pointed with his two fingers to his ears) ‘Both lawful (Halal) and unlawful things (Haram) are evident but in between them there are doubtful things·and most people have no knowledge about them.

So he, who saves himself from these doubtful things, saves his religion and his honor (i.e. keeps them blameless). And he who indulges in these doubtful things is like a shepherd who pastures (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is what He declared unlawful (Haram). Beware In the body there is a piece of flesh if it becomes sound and healthy, the whole body becomes sound and healthy but if it gets spoilt, the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.”

[Sahiih al-Bukhaari and Sahiih Muslim]


And I promise you, you will see the following Verse every day of your life


Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do.

[Qur'aan 16:97]
Reply

azc
04-11-2019, 12:29 PM
There is no concept of birthday in Islam but some sects and people have double standard regarding this matter. Scholars who declare even eid mildun nabi as bidah go on mute mode when their own government or people celebrate birthday of their country and royal family. This double standard is unislamic.

I'm against blind following of scholars as it makes you fanatic worshipper of theirs.

All scholars are fallible. If they are wrong, say they are wrong.
Reply

*charisma*
04-12-2019, 03:12 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
originating from paganism is a mute point as its clear that the prophet fasted the day he was born. If your going full on genetic fallacy then you might as well not name the days of the week or the names of the months as they are based on Roman mythology. Or logic for that matter.

The bottom line is that the guy asked if he could celebrate his kids first birthday - This shouldn't even be seen as a deen Issue.
The prophet pbuh fasted on Mondays, not specifically on his birthday as a yearly thing like people these days are doing. Secondly, he FASTED. He didn't celebrate it. And the question is WHY did he do that anyway?

In regards to the calendar, we should be using the Hijri calendar as Muslims. As for the days of the week, a majority, if not all, of Muslim countries do not call them by those names anyway, so I don't really see much significance to your argument. Anyways, they are not celebrated days nor are they worshipped days, just names to reference time. This topic is going on a tangent.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by azc
Saudi Arabia National Day:


Each year, the unification of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is celebrated on the 23rd of September, hence the name “Unification of the Kingdom Day (Saudi Arabia National Day).” This is the country’s only public secular holiday and it takes place on the anniversary of the day Saudi Arabia was founded in the year 1932.''

What is the fatwa of islamq.info about this birthday celebration of Saudi Arabia...?
Originally Posted by azc
https://stepfeed.com/saudis-are-cele...0%2C2722006054
Please tell me what relevance you are bringing to this topic?? Again you mention things that are not at all helpful, and this isn't the first time.
Reply

Zafran
04-12-2019, 04:13 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
The prophet pbuh fasted on Mondays, not specifically on his birthday as a yearly thing like people these days are doing. Secondly, he FASTED. He didn't celebrate it. And the question is WHY did he do that anyway?

In regards to the calendar, we should be using the Hijri calendar as Muslims. As for the days of the week, a majority, if not all, of Muslim countries do not call them by those names anyway, so I don't really see much significance to your argument. Anyways, they are not celebrated days nor are they worshipped days, just names to reference time. This topic is going on a tangent.
It not going on tangent its going to the crux of the argument - you seem to think anything that has "pagan rootes" it must be bad but you have no problem with using all sorts of things from phrases, to sayings and even do customs/logics that are part of your aesthetic identity - the same is with celebrating birthdays, bonfire night, July 4th, new years on national holidays. To tell Muslims not to do this that come from all sorts of backgrounds because of some genetic fallacy then there is a clear problem here telling the brother who is a new Muslim that celebrating birthday is bad when it has no bearing on religion anyway.

Another thing to know is that not all Muslims come from "Muslim countries" a lot of us live in non Muslim countries because that is who we are and that is where a lot Muslims live - the world doesn't revolve around one culture or identity - this forum in English is a great example. Next you will be telling the brother to only use the Hijra calendar even though it would be unpractical and wouldn't be able to communicate with most people that live around him.

Birthdays are celebrated all over the world including most Muslim countries.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by *charisma*
Please tell me what relevance you are bringing to this topic?? Again you mention things that are not at all helpful, and this isn't the first time.
because its the saudis scholars that were anti birthday celebrations - The IslamQA is a great example of that. Of course a lot of them are under a purge. May God protect them with that.
Reply

*charisma*
04-12-2019, 05:31 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
It not going on tangent its going to the crux of the argument - you seem to think anything that has "pagan rootes" it must be bad but you have no problem with using all sorts of things from phrases, to sayings and even do customs/logics that are part of your aesthetic identity - the same is with celebrating birthdays, bonfire night, July 4th, new years on national holidays. To tell Muslims not to do this that come from all sorts of backgrounds because of some genetic fallacy then there is a clear problem here telling the brother who is a new Muslim that celebrating birthday is bad when it has no bearing on religion anyway.

Another thing to know is that not all Muslims come from "Muslim countries" a lot of us live in non Muslim countries because that is who we are and that is where a lot Muslims live - the world doesn't revolve around one culture or identity - this forum in English is a great example. Next you will be telling the brother to only use the Hijra calendar even though it would be unpractical and wouldn't be able to communicate with most people that live around him.

Birthdays are celebrated all over the world including most Muslim countries.
Again, just because it is celebrated DOES NOT make it correct. And how are you going to make assumptions about me when you don't know me? I haven't said that it's ok to celebrate other holidays so I don't know where you got that assumption from :/ I'm not inconsistent with what I believe, just like you are not inconsistent with what you believe. If you believe it's ok to celebrate birthdays then you probably think it's ok to celebrate other holidays. I personally do not believe that. You still haven't directly mentioned which pagan customs are still practiced. Again using the hijra calendar has nothing to do with this topic. You are going on a tangent.

If you're Americanized and can't let it go, that's on you bro. It's obvious we will not see eye to eye on this topic. You're too attached to culture. I am not.


Originally Posted by Zafran
because its the saudis scholars that were anti birthday celebrations - The IslamQA is a great example of that. Of course a lot of them are under a purge. May God protect them with that.
There are many scholars who are not saudi who are against birthdays, also his posts weren't mentioning birthdays they were mentioning national celebrations. Maybe you should just let him answer for himself?
Reply

Insaanah
04-12-2019, 12:17 PM
Another thing, apart from all that has already been said, is that there are generally four really important commodities or resources:

People,
Time,
Wealth,
Health

We don't celebrate loss of people, we don't celebrate loss of wealth, we don't celebrate loss of health, so why do we celebrate loss of time?
Reply

Zafran
04-13-2019, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Again, just because it is celebrated DOES NOT make it correct.
what basis? you entire argument hinges on the idea that "birthdays are foolish" and it has "pagan roots" - Both are not good enough reasons on an Islamic forum to ban people from Birthday celebrations which you have been pushing for in all your posts.


Originally Posted by *charisma*
I'm not inconsistent with what I believe, just like you are not inconsistent with what you believe. If you believe it's ok to celebrate birthdays then you probably think it's ok to celebrate other holidays. I personally do not believe that. You still haven't directly mentioned which pagan customs are still practiced. Again using the hijra calendar has nothing to do with this topic. You are going on a tangent.
of course you are - you first stated that calling something "foolish" was Good - which it isn't (not Islamic wise anyway) then you went on to say it has Pagan roots - which isn't a good reason has its a genetic fallacy. So I'm still confused why your trying to convince the brother on not celebrating his one year old kids birthday?

Originally Posted by *charisma*
If you're Americanized and can't let it go, that's on you bro. It's obvious we will not see eye to eye on this topic. You're too attached to culture. I am not.
Or that your culturally disposed on not celebrating birthdays - thats on you - dont need it ram on other people be they "american" Indonesian or arab. Besides Im not american but Im not sure how american Muslims will feel of belittling there culture - this is an Islamic forum at the end of the day.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by *charisma*
mimic Pagan traditions
Originally Posted by *charisma*
You just need to look at the history of something to know whether it is incorrect or not
Originally Posted by *charisma*
If it was haram at one point, it is probably haram today.
all these quotes have no basis in Islam - they are either your own cultural reasoning, genetic fallacies - or trying to find reasons to make something haram that you dont feel disposed to.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by *charisma*
IF something in a culture is haram, against Islam, historically dubious, harmful, it should not continued to be practiced even if it were practiced for thousands of years prior
Trying to make it Islamic here. too many inconsistencies.
Reply

*charisma*
04-13-2019, 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Or that your culturally disposed on not celebrating birthdays - thats on you - dont need it ram on other people be they "american" Indonesian or arab. Besides Im not american but Im not sure how american Muslims will feel of belittling there culture - this is an Islamic forum at the end of the day.
Incorrect. Has nothing to do with my culture. There are many american muslims who don't celebrate their birthdays, and I don't really practice my beliefs based on someone else's "feelings."

Americanized,
westernized
colonized
white washed...
whatever.
All the same.

As I said, we do not see eye to eye. Stay confused :)
Reply

Zafran
04-13-2019, 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Incorrect. Has nothing to do with my culture. There are many american muslims who don't celebrate their birthdays, and I don't really practice my beliefs based on someone else's "feelings."
Im sure you do


Originally Posted by *charisma*
Americanized,
westernized
colonized
white washed...
whatever.
All the same.
Birthdays?


Originally Posted by *charisma*
As I said, we do not see eye to eye. Stay confused
Indeed seems like the whole "pagan roots and "foolish" was mere sentiment after all.
Reply

azc
04-13-2019, 09:19 AM
@*charisma* :

Birthday of a commonman or a prince or Riyadh festival or Saudi national festival etc all these celebrations have no basis in Islam. If birthday of a commonman is bidah then all such celebrations are also bidah and scholars should speak impartially against all these unislamic traditions but sometimes I see double standard of scholars which is questionable.

And in truth if we see these issues from Islamic point of view, these celebrations can't be proven as bidah as according to hadith ''Man ahdasa fi deenina haza ma laisa MINhu fahuwa radd'' (Bukhari) it means any new practice IN religion is wrong whereas nobody celebrate birthday of a child as religious deed and nobody thinks that he will be rewarded for it.
However, it's waste of money which is clearly prohibited in Islam and so it can be called as makrooh tahreemi otherwise birthday is neither haram nor bidah per se.

I tried to see the fatwa of islamqa.info regarding birthday of prince and Saudi national festival but there is no fatwa.
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
04-13-2019, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Incorrect. Has nothing to do with my culture. There are many american muslims who don't celebrate their birthdays, and I don't really practice my beliefs based on someone else's "feelings."

Americanized,
westernized
colonized
white washed...
whatever.
All the same.

As I said, we do not see eye to eye. Stay confused :)


al-Hasan said:

I met a group of people who were more stingy in regards to their life (i.e. as to how they invested it) than one of you is about his money.


al-Hasan said:

On the day of Judgement the son of Adam will be shown all the moments of his life. Every moment he did not spend doing good will be a cause of remorse for him.


How far we have strayed from the way of the Salaf. May Allaah guide this Ummah.
Reply

Insaanah
04-13-2019, 04:33 PM
:sl:
I came across this quote from al Hasan al Basri:
"Son of Adam! You are nothing but a number of days, whenever each day passes then part of you has gone.”
https://www.islam21c.com/spiritualit...ss-with-allah/
Reply

AbdurRahman.
04-13-2019, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
:sl:
I came across this quote from al Hasan al Basri:
"Son of Adam! You are nothing but a number of days, whenever each day passes then part of you has gone.”
https://www.islam21c.com/spiritualit...ss-with-allah/
I agree there is a valid difference of opinion on birthdays so both opinions are ok, those who celebrate it without sin and extravagance are fine and so are those who want to refrain

However the time wasting or money wasting (as long as there is no extravagant spending) argument doesnt fit here as all people need a bit of enjoyment in their lives too and especially children need to be happy and not disappointed

Too much seriousness all the time makes a person ill so there is the odd times when we need to chill with a halal party and fun :)

Birthdays also serve as an excuse for a family get together and that's surely a good thing!
Reply

Simply_Logical
04-14-2019, 11:27 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
:sl:
I came across this quote from al Hasan al Basri:
"Son of Adam! You are nothing but a number of days, whenever each day passes then part of you has gone.”
https://www.islam21c.com/spiritualit...ss-with-allah/
SubhanAllah that's so true
Reply

Insaanah
04-14-2019, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by AbdurRahman.
I agree there is a valid difference of opinion on birthdays so both opinions are ok, those who celebrate it without sin and extravagance are fine and so are those who want to refrain

However the time wasting or money wasting (as long as there is no extravagant spending) argument doesnt fit here as all people need a bit of enjoyment in their lives too and especially children need to be happy and not disappointed

Too much seriousness all the time makes a person ill so there is the odd times when we need to chill with a halal party and fun :)

Birthdays also serve as an excuse for a family get together and that's surely a good thing!
:sl:

Nobody is saying you shouldn’t enjoy yourself. But sometimes the argument that everyone needs to have fun once in a while, gets used to support various things, including celebrations not sanctioned in Islam.

I grew up not celebrating birthdays, and alhamdulillah I’m not unhappy, deprived, disappointed or mentally traumatised by the experience. I feel privileged alhamdulillah that my parents weren’t those who just went along with society, but put thought into what they taught us and the way they brought us up.

Chilling and having fun and giving gifts can be done any time when it’s appropriate, and keeping ties of kinship should be done whenever one can, as part of Allah wahdahu’s command.
Reply

AbdurRahman.
04-14-2019, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
:sl:

Nobody is saying you shouldn’t enjoy yourself. But sometimes the argument that everyone needs to have fun once in a while, gets used to support various things, including celebrations not sanctioned in Islam.

I grew up not celebrating birthdays, and alhamdulillah I’m not unhappy, deprived, disappointed or mentally traumatised by the experience. I feel privileged alhamdulillah that my parents weren’t those who just went along with society, but put thought into what they taught us and the way they brought us up.

Chilling and having fun and giving gifts can be done any time when it’s appropriate, and keeping ties of kinship should be done whenever one can, as part of Allah wahdahu’s command.
walaikum assalam rahmatullahi barakatuh

Yes ofcourse we can have fun and enjoyment and keep good kinship in other ways

However I wouldn't say the people are 'going with the flow' but they are going with their Scholars' who say birthday celebration is ok if it does not involve sin like freemixng, music etc; see these fatwas for example:

http://binbayyah.net/english/holiday...ous-overtones/

http://daruliftabirmingham.co.uk/birthdays/
Reply

Insaanah
04-14-2019, 09:59 PM
Jazaakallah for the links. Interesting that none of them mentions the origins of birthdays. I do wander if the scholars know the origins, and if they don't, whether their viewpoint would change once they did realise.
Reply

AbdurRahman.
04-14-2019, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Jazaakallah for the links. Interesting that none of them mentions the origins of birthdays. I do wander if the scholars know the origins, and if they don't, whether their viewpoint would change once they did realise.
We have the most sophisticated and fool proof method of preserving history in the form of science of hadith but yet many hadiths are weak and some even downright fabricated

So how are we to trust the kuffar history going back thousands of years brother when we know how awful their authenticity criteria can be? That's 1 point of how the origins of birthday can be anyone's guess

We have a principle of 'istihala' don't we in Islam? Where something which changes it's origin changes it's ruling on it too, such as when wine is turned into vinegar, it becomes halal. Couldn't the same be done to 'historical origins'? So for example, many Muslims enjoy bonfire night but to them it's just a bit of fun and nothing to do with celebrating a man (guy fawkes) being burnt at the stakes many hundreds of years ago (not saying it's halal but pointing out what it means to some who participate)

So let's say for example birthday does have some pagan or Christian religious origin, but wouldn't that be irrelevant now due to the many layers of istihala it's been through and nothing to do with those origins to the masses for many centuries now?

And doesn't Islam say 'it's the intention that counts' thus any birthday celebration will be judged on the intention with which it is celebrated and not a possible haram origin of it centuries ago?

So these are some of the reasons brother why I think that this 'origins' argument really doesn't hold much water :)
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
04-14-2019, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Jazaakallah for the links. Interesting that none of them mentions the origins of birthdays. I do wander if the scholars know the origins, and if they don't, whether their viewpoint would change once they did realise.
Please do not pay any attention to the links he has given you.

He has attempted to quote the deviant Bin Bayyah to support birthdays. He is the same deviant who said Islamic laws were outdated and needed to be changed.

Please beware of the misguidance AbdurRahmaan spreads.

https://www.thenational.ae/uae/outda...-hears-1.12969
Reply

azc
04-15-2019, 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
Please do not pay any attention to the links he has given you.

He has attempted to quote the deviant Bin Bayyah to support birthdays. He is the same deviant who said Islamic laws were outdated and needed to be changed. ???

Please beware of the misguidance AbdurRahmaan spreads.

https://www.thenational.ae/uae/outda...-hears-1.12969
@Abdurrahman :
Will you plz clarify it...?
Reply

Stoic
04-15-2019, 06:52 AM
...now I'm super confused as to whether it's fine or not. Just want excuse for son to have fun with cousins and family get together take pictures :( no music or candleblowing involved
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
04-15-2019, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by azc
@Abdurrahman :
Will you plz clarify it...?
There is nothing to explain. Bin Bayyah is a deviant. He is a puppet of the West who wants to change all of the rules of Islaam. He caused an uproar in 2015 by claiming the laws of Islaam were outdated.

Now, instead of looking for excuses (if that is what you are doing), it is time for you to act on your own advice


Originally Posted by azc
There is no concept of birthday in Islam but some sects and people have double standard regarding this matter. Scholars who declare even eid mildun nabi as bidah go on mute mode when their own government or people celebrate birthday of their country and royal family. This double standard is unislamic.

I'm against blind following of scholars as it makes you fanatic worshipper of theirs.

All scholars are fallible. If they are wrong, say they are wrong.
- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Stoic
...now I'm super confused as to whether it's fine or not. Just want excuse for son to have fun with cousins and family get together take pictures :( no music or candleblowing involved
If you are looking for an excuse to do something then you will lean towards the opinion which is in accordance with what you want. This is cognitive bias.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by AbdurRahman.

We have a principle of 'istihala' don't we in Islam? Where something which changes it's origin changes it's ruling on it too, such as when wine is turned into vinegar, it becomes halal. Couldn't the same be done to 'historical origins'? So for example, many Muslims enjoy bonfire night but to them it's just a bit of fun and nothing to do with celebrating a man (guy fawkes) being burnt at the stakes many hundreds of years ago (not saying it's halal but pointing out what it means to some who participate)

You have completely slaughtered the fiqh principle of (الاستحالة) al-'istiHaalah. You clearly have no understanding of the DawaabiT (ضوابط) of this principle because if you did you would have never attempted to apply it like you just did.
Reply

CuriousonTruth
04-15-2019, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by Stoic
...now I'm super confused as to whether it's fine or not. Just want excuse for son to have fun with cousins and family get together take pictures :( no music or candleblowing involved
Lol I feel bad for you man. But on the other hand, you need to take your decisions by your own self instead of relying on anonymous people on the internet.
Reply

azc
04-15-2019, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
There is nothing to explain. Bin Bayyah is a deviant. He is a puppet of the West who wants to change all of the rules of Islaam. He caused an uproar in 2015 by claiming the laws of Islaam were outdated. Now, instead of looking for excuses (if that is what you are doing), it is time for you to act on your own advice- - - Updated - - -If you are looking for an excuse to do something then you will lean towards the opinion which is in accordance with what you want. This is cognitive bias.- - - Updated - - -You have completely slaughtered the fiqh principle of (الاستحالة) al-'istiHaalah. You clearly have no understanding of the DawaabiT (ضوابط) of this principle because if you did you would have never attempted to apply it like you just did.
I want to know why he said, 'Islamic laws are outdated''.... I'm not interested in who Bin Bayyah is.
Reply

Nitro Zeus
04-15-2019, 08:53 PM
Celebrating birthdays is haram because it is not something Allah has chosen. Quran says that every nation has its own festivsl and we have ours which is Eid Al Adha and Fitr. There is nothing says in Quran that you can celebrate your birthday, if you like to celebrate, you can do by fasting for example, or reading Quran, or do some Islamic lectures. Thats how you can celebrate your birthday, not by having party.
Reply

Abz2000
04-15-2019, 08:55 PM
Birthdays can be positive milestones and good opportunities to reflect as well as a good means of bringing the family and friends (dhi al qurbaa) together on a happy note, and as long as it's not turned into a perceived obligation and thereby bida'ah, it is almost as beneficial as the birth feast and ceremony (akikah).

It is wise to get the kids to lead an audible prayer (dua) in which family and guests participate before cutting the cake.
It is a bit lame to do the haram police line on such a potentially clean celebration.
Maybe the adapt and progress with humilty before Allah :swt: mode works better than the ban and alienate everything suspicious mode in this instance when weighing pros and cons.

Please don't make your kid dislike God for something so small - especially given the possible benefits - they'll likely end up generalizing and packing it with all the other no nos - and then you risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater if they crack under the regime and rebel.
Reply

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