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DanEdge
04-22-2019, 02:04 PM
Greetings,

I wrote a post responding to the thread about non-practicing people of good character, and then discovered that I couldn't post it and the advice forum because I'm not Muslim [emoji1] . But I wanted to posted somewhere oh, so here it is:

----------------

It is this very issue that first inspired me to study religion when I was 12 years old. One Summer while in summer camp, I made a good friend named John who happened to be Jewish. I recalled hearing my pastor say that there was no way to heaven except through Jesus Christ (pbuh). Did this mean that John would go to hell?

This created a moral quandary for me. John was a good kid, and he was my best friend that summer. He was open and kind to everyone. Though there were some who judged him negatively for being Jewish, he didn't take offense to this, and did not judge others negatively for believing differently from him. How could it be true that this young man would go to hell if he died today?

By the end of that summer, I had read the Bible from cover to cover, looking for answers. But all I found were more puzzles. I spoke to pastors and priests and ministers, and none were able to resolve my puzzles to my satisfaction.

So I read the Quran. I didn't know any Muslims and didn't have anyone to talk to about it, so I didn't retain much at the time. Then I read the talmud, then the Bhavid Gita, the Tao te Jing, and I was up and running. I started studying philosophy, history, political science, etc., and I continue to study.

I found that most religions have similar morality systems. There is usually something akin to the ten commandments: timeless moral principles that apply to almost every time period and culture. Most religions also have very specific and dated lists of instructions that make the most sense for the time period and culture in which they were written.

To this day, the thing I find most concerning about religion is when believers use it to exclude, judge, and condemn outsiders. Almost all religious communities have hardliners who adopt this view to the extreme, and who view believers in other religions as their enemy. But even moderates tend to agree that believers in other religions are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife.

For me, I am often reminded of my friend John when I see this kind of rhetoric. I simply could not believe that he deserved to go to hell. I still don't believe it. Never have, never will.

Of course, I don't necessarily believe in an afterlife. Maybe, maybe not. I'll find out when I get there. But I do believe that if there is a higher power, and it is a power of good, that character will be considered independently of adopted religion.
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Ahmed.
04-22-2019, 04:03 PM
Hi Dan,

Quran makes very clear anyone who's heard about Islam and dies as non Muslim burns in hell for all eternity

So don't take the risk my friend as you've been on this board for ages so you cannot use the excuse that 'oh Allah I never heard about Islam properly':

As for today, only Islam is valid or acceptable now that Allah has sent it to all men, for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has said,

"By Him in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, any person of this Community, any Jew, or any Christian who hears of me and dies without believing in what I have been sent with will be an inhabitant of hell" (al-Baghawi: Sharh al-sunna 1.104).
This hadith was also reported by Muslim in his Sahih by `Abd al-Razzaq in his Musannaf, and others. It is a rigorously authenticated (sahih) evidence that clarifies the word of Allah in surat Al 'Imran

"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life" (Qur'an 3:85)

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/amat.htm
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DanEdge
04-22-2019, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed.
Hi Dan,

Quran makes very clear anyone who's heard about Islam and dies as non Muslim burns in hell for all eternity

So don't take the risk my friend as you've been on this board for ages so you cannot use the excuse that 'oh Allah I never heard about Islam properly':

As for today, only Islam is valid or acceptable now that Allah has sent it to all men, for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has said,

"By Him in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, any person of this Community, any Jew, or any Christian who hears of me and dies without believing in what I have been sent with will be an inhabitant of hell" (al-Baghawi: Sharh al-sunna 1.104).
This hadith was also reported by Muslim in his Sahih by `Abd al-Razzaq in his Musannaf, and others. It is a rigorously authenticated (sahih) evidence that clarifies the word of Allah in surat Al 'Imran

"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life" (Qur'an 3:85)

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/amat.htm
I really appreciate the sentiment of your post. I feel the same way when Christians tell me that they will pray for me. I take it to mean that you wish the best for me, that you don't want me to suffer, and that you want me to find the right truth.
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SintoDinto
04-22-2019, 05:19 PM
maybe this should answer your question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqZpNj76HtI

EDIT: but seriously my friend you've been on this forum for how long now? i don't know that you have "minimal understanding", but perhaps you do as there are some people on here who are bad daees or who are bad at representing islam, may allah forgive them, myself included may allah forgive me.
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Zafran
04-22-2019, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by DanEdge
To this day, the thing I find most concerning about religion is when believers use it to exclude, judge, and condemn outsiders. Almost all religious communities have hardliners who adopt this view to the extreme, and who view believers in other religions as their enemy. But even moderates tend to agree that believers in other religions are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife.

For me, I am often reminded of my friend John when I see this kind of rhetoric. I simply could not believe that he deserved to go to hell. I still don't believe it. Never have, never will.

Of course, I don't necessarily believe in an afterlife. Maybe, maybe not. I'll find out when I get there. But I do believe that if there is a higher power, and it is a power of good, that character will be considered independently of adopted religion
In Islam it boils down to what you believe the universe was about and why your doing a certain moral act or being a "good person". Anybody who believes in God without partners is already on his way. Ofcourse we shouldn't kid ourselves that different religions have very different starting positions or don't believe in God. Heaven and Hell presuppose a God and in Islam prophets that warned us about it.
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Ahmed.
04-23-2019, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
In Islam it boils down to what you believe the universe was about and why your doing a certain moral act or being a "good person". Anybody who believes in God without partners is already on his way. Ofcourse we shouldn't kid ourselves that different religions have very different starting positions or don't believe in God. Heaven and Hell presuppose a God and in Islam prophets that warned us about it.
Non Muslims cannot believe in God without partners brother; Shaykh Nuh explains why :

2) A second group of people consists of those who turn away from God's divine message of Islam, rejecting the command to make their worship God's alone; whether because of blindly imitating the religion of their ancestors, or for some other reason. ...they persist in associating others with Allah, either by actually worshipping another, or by rejecting the laws brought by His messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace), which associates their own customs with His prerogative to be worshipped as He directs. Such people have violated God's rights, and have accepted to go to hell, which is precisely what His messengers have warned them of, so they have no excuse:

"Truly, Allah does not forgive that any be associated with Him; but He forgives what is less than that to whomever He wills" (Qur'an 4:48).

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/amat.htm
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DanEdge
04-23-2019, 09:19 PM
I will keep loving all of you if you all will keep praying for me. Deal? Deal.
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مجرد روح مهجورة
04-23-2019, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by DanEdge
I will keep loving all of you if you all will keep praying for me. Deal? Deal.
A Muslim always keeps whole mankind in his/her supplications/prayers ,whether you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, atheist, agnostic...

May الله guide us all
يا ذا الجلال و الإكرام
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Eric H
04-24-2019, 07:31 AM
Greetings and peace be with you

Originally Posted by DanEdge
To this day, the thing I find most concerning about religion is when believers use it to exclude, judge, and condemn outsiders.
We are all sinners and we should all be fearful of our own salvation; so how can anyone pass judgement on another, none of us are God. And God says, my ways are not your ways, my ways are above your ways as the heavens are above the Earth. Religion is more powerful when we use it to try and change ourselves, rather than try and change others.

You cannot take scripture out of context and make judgements about God. In Islam, I would suggest spending a lot of time studying the 99 names of Allah; he wills good for all of his creation, he is just, compassionate, forgiving merciful. When you read the 99 names of Allah, I don't believe that you will find a God who would condemn unjustly.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric
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M.I.A.
04-24-2019, 08:43 AM
Originally Posted by DanEdge
Greetings,

I wrote a post responding to the thread about non-practicing people of good character, and then discovered that I couldn't post it and the advice forum because I'm not Muslim [emoji1] . But I wanted to posted somewhere oh, so here it is:

----------------

It is this very issue that first inspired me to study religion when I was 12 years old. One Summer while in summer camp, I made a good friend named John who happened to be Jewish. I recalled hearing my pastor say that there was no way to heaven except through Jesus Christ (pbuh). Did this mean that John would go to hell?

This created a moral quandary for me. John was a good kid, and he was my best friend that summer. He was open and kind to everyone. Though there were some who judged him negatively for being Jewish, he didn't take offense to this, and did not judge others negatively for believing differently from him. How could it be true that this young man would go to hell if he died today?

By the end of that summer, I had read the Bible from cover to cover, looking for answers. But all I found were more puzzles. I spoke to pastors and priests and ministers, and none were able to resolve my puzzles to my satisfaction.

So I read the Quran. I didn't know any Muslims and didn't have anyone to talk to about it, so I didn't retain much at the time. Then I read the talmud, then the Bhavid Gita, the Tao te Jing, and I was up and running. I started studying philosophy, history, political science, etc., and I continue to study.

I found that most religions have similar morality systems. There is usually something akin to the ten commandments: timeless moral principles that apply to almost every time period and culture. Most religions also have very specific and dated lists of instructions that make the most sense for the time period and culture in which they were written.

To this day, the thing I find most concerning about religion is when believers use it to exclude, judge, and condemn outsiders. Almost all religious communities have hardliners who adopt this view to the extreme, and who view believers in other religions as their enemy. But even moderates tend to agree that believers in other religions are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife.

For me, I am often reminded of my friend John when I see this kind of rhetoric. I simply could not believe that he deserved to go to hell. I still don't believe it. Never have, never will.

Of course, I don't necessarily believe in an afterlife. Maybe, maybe not. I'll find out when I get there. But I do believe that if there is a higher power, and it is a power of good, that character will be considered independently of adopted religion.

..the Jews have a mixed representation in the Quran.

..and you already know what the pastor says.


But you have to let us know what conclusion you came to after reading the Quran, on the subject..

Before you moved on.


The only parts of the gospel/bible I have read are those that have been posted on forum..

..but seriously, no work around? No misrepresentation?

What's the best worse answer you came across?


But even moderates tend to agree that believers in other religions are doomed to eternal torture in the afterlife.
...me personally, not really.. although if you talked to John about it things may have gone in a different direction.



It's a strange case for how God works, but something to be aware off in our unawareness.

Although its extremely easy for people to draw the wrong conclusions from what we post here, not enough time or space to explain ourselves.

Edit: imo.. I have seen an increasing trend in people using religion for trolling.. it's become an art of sorts lol.

So you have to be aware of incitement as it stands today, although people of different mindsets may respond differently.

At the same time you dont want to be responsible for those sorts of people or pander too them.
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Physicist
04-24-2019, 09:06 AM
Of course, it's up to God to decide who goes where.
And it is up to you to choose what religion you adopt, if any at all. Or you even may declare oneself as a profet of a new religion. Choice is yours as well as responsibilities for.

You may spend eternity in judging religions, it'll not help you to make a choice. Focus on most important things and if you disagree with something, whether you can keep your opinion.
In Islam it's Shahada what differs Muslim from Non-muslim.
Many people, many opinions, some are thinking that if you don't adopt their particular view, you are not muslim. That's their problem, not yours.
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M.I.A.
04-24-2019, 10:12 AM
That's their problem, not yours.
That's the only problem lol, the only solution is to be God fearing.

To be willing to stay in hand and under control.

It's the only way to be able to live with yourself in a conflicting world.
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Ümit
05-29-2019, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by DanEdge
For me, I am often reminded of my friend John when I see this kind of rhetoric. I simply could not believe that he deserved to go to hell. I still don't believe it. Never have, never will.
Dear Danedge,
You do not understand this situation because appearantly there is still information out there you are missing. you need this information in order to understand the problem with your friend.

These questions are key to that:
1 What is the purpose of life?
2 If life is a test, why are we taking this test? I thought Allah was omnipotent...he know the outcome of the test beforehand, right?
3 Why did Allah create us? out what kind of need?
4 If Allah is omnipotent, what does He need us for?
5 Why did Allah create weak and ungrateful humans when he could create much stonger and faster creatures and much more obedient?
6 why is free will so important?
7 Why did allah create so many religions?
8 How does religion relate to science?
9 Why are there so many prophets which result to different religions?
10 what will happen when we die?
11 what happens to children and mental ill people like people with down syndrome who do not have the capacity to believe? what happens to them?
12 what happens to people who have never heard of Islam...or people who lived way before Muhammad sas?

All these questions were also my reason to seriously question my religion but as I investigated, and found more and more answers, I regained my faith.
I will try to provide you the information you need inshaallah...but it will take time. keep reminding me to it.

I could answer in short to you that your friend goes to hell because he dies as a nun muslim, but you wouldn't understand that right now. So I will take the long route and try to provide you answers to each above questions and hopefully by the end, you will understand.

first you need to know why Allah created us. He did NOT create us out of need. He does not need us. He created us because that is what he does. A creator, creates...that is one of His attributes...just like painting is one of the attributes of a painter...you also do not ask a painter "why do you paint?".
So Allah created us and many other creatures as well. creatures like animals, angels, devils, jinns, and many other unknown creatures.
he gathered all of us and asked us "am I not your Lord?" and we replied "No, you are".

I once read somewhere why Allah asked us this question, but I cannot find that anymore, so I cannot validate it, but it was something like this:
long before we were born on this Earth, we already existed and lived. at that time Ibliss was not condemmed yet. He was the greatest of all the creatures and very powerfull...so powerfull that slowly rose the illusion that he too could be a God. So some of the creatures did believe that Ibliss could be a God too.
So Allah gathered all of us and asked us "Am I not your Lord?" many of us said "no, you are!" and were safe...the devils said "Ibliss could be a God too" and got condemned.
We humans were stupid enough to ask for time and find out on our own who our Lord is...so here we are on this Earth...looking for our Lord on our own.

Allah wiped our memory clean before we were born so we would not be affected by our memories...and we are hunting for clues to believe in Him or not.
That is the test we are taking. That is our main purpose on this world...so dying as a non-muslim means we failed our test...

again, I cannot validate this, but it seemed very plausible.

I will try to explain the other questions later inshaallah.

To be continued...
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