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Wizard478
05-04-2019, 05:34 PM
Hi all I am a new member on here.

I have some reservations about Islam and would like if anyone could answer my questions.
Firstly I believe for a religion to be ethical and moral it must practice what it preaches.

In islam it is perfectly acceptable to eat meat ie. I believe slaughtering animals in the name of God does not make it any better no matter what method is used. Animals have just as much right to be on earth as Humans. They were created by God. Killing them is killing Gods creation to satisfy hunger and taste when that could be done with non veg food and diet.

Why is it perfectly acceptable to butcher animals. There are countless halal butchers displaying hanging animals with religious texts and pictures of mosques right next to these slaughtered animals.

In the Sikh, Hindu and Buddhist faith ie the Dharmic faiths. All practice and teach that Killing animals is completely wrong. We dont have anything such as preying over animals to make killing right. We practice a vegetarian diet.

Hence is Islam an unmoral and unjust faith as it sees no wrong in killing animals?
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*charisma*
05-04-2019, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Wizard478
Hi all I am a new member on here.

I have some reservations about Islam and would like if anyone could answer my questions.
Firstly I believe for a religion to be ethical and moral it must practice what it preaches.

In islam it is perfectly acceptable to eat meat ie. I believe slaughtering animals in the name of God does not make it any better no matter what method is used. Animals have just as much right to be on earth as Humans. They were created by God. Killing them is killing Gods creation to satisfy hunger and taste when that could be done with non veg food and diet.

Why is it perfectly acceptable to butcher animals. There are countless halal butchers displaying hanging animals with religious texts and pictures of mosques right next to these slaughtered animals.

In the Sikh, Hindu and Buddhist faith ie the Dharmic faiths. All practice and teach that Killing animals is completely wrong. We dont have anything such as preying over animals to make killing right. We practice a vegetarian diet.

Hence is Islam an unmoral and unjust faith as it sees no wrong in killing animals?
What we consider immoral or unjust is based on Allah's authority, not yours or any other human. The slaughtering of certain animals for food is permissible. The way the animal is raised, taken care of, and slaughtered are all taken into consideration for the benefit of the animal. This doesn't make eating meat immoral or unjust if it is allowed to us by Allah. With that being said, in Islam we are actually supposed to eat meat sparingly. Vegetarianism is more encouraged, but it doesn't mean that meat is not allowed.

Polytheistic faiths like the ones you've mentioned put more emphasis on animal spirit and life than we do. We don't worship our animals, we don't believe in reincarnation, we don't believe they suffer more than humans, etc. You can't look at islam and judge morality through the lens of polytheism.
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bint e aisha
05-04-2019, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Wizard478
Hi all I am a new member on here.

I have some reservations about Islam and would like if anyone could answer my questions.
Firstly I believe for a religion to be ethical and moral it must practice what it preaches.

In islam it is perfectly acceptable to eat meat ie. I believe slaughtering animals in the name of God does not make it any better no matter what method is used. Animals have just as much right to be on earth as Humans. They were created by God. Killing them is killing Gods creation to satisfy hunger and taste when that could be done with non veg food and diet.

Why is it perfectly acceptable to butcher animals. There are countless halal butchers displaying hanging animals with religious texts and pictures of mosques right next to these slaughtered animals.

In the Sikh, Hindu and Buddhist faith ie the Dharmic faiths. All practice and teach that Killing animals is completely wrong. We dont have anything such as preying over animals to make killing right. We practice a vegetarian diet.

Hence is Islam an unmoral and unjust faith as it sees no wrong in killing animals?
Greetings. If you consider it immoral and unethical to eat animals then on what basis do you think eating plants is alright? They are also living organisms. They are also a creation of God. You said: Animals have just as much right to be on earth as Humans. They were created by God. Killing them is killing Gods creation to satisfy hunger and taste. I can say the same about plants. Why is eating vegetables, mushrooms not considered immoral when they are also living organisms? They are also a creation of God and they have as much right to be on Earth as Humans. They breath like we do, they grow like we do and they need nutrition like we do and to fulfill their nutritional requirements there are certain laws of nature. There is a food cycle and living organisms consume and take benefit from each other to survive. That is how God has created us and those are His laws.

Attachment 6679
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CuriousonTruth
05-04-2019, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by Wizard478
Hi all I am a new member on here.

I have some reservations about Islam and would like if anyone could answer my questions.
Firstly I believe for a religion to be ethical and moral it must practice what it preaches.

In islam it is perfectly acceptable to eat meat ie. I believe slaughtering animals in the name of God does not make it any better no matter what method is used. Animals have just as much right to be on earth as Humans. They were created by God. Killing them is killing Gods creation to satisfy hunger and taste when that could be done with non veg food and diet.

Why is it perfectly acceptable to butcher animals. There are countless halal butchers displaying hanging animals with religious texts and pictures of mosques right next to these slaughtered animals.

In the Sikh, Hindu and Buddhist faith ie the Dharmic faiths. All practice and teach that Killing animals is completely wrong. We dont have anything such as preying over animals to make killing right. We practice a vegetarian diet.

Hence is Islam an unmoral and unjust faith as it sees no wrong in killing animals?
God also created ecosystems, cycle of life, foodchain, etc. There is nothing wrong or "immoral" about eating an animal, because clearly it is a part of life and humans have been evolved to be Omnivores, not herbivores.

If you feel bad about eating meat because they are living, then why do you ignore that plants are also living, and not only living, they are the most important living beings in the world.

"In the Sikh, Hindu and Buddhist faith ie the Dharmic faiths. All practice and teach that Killing animals is completely wrong."

I don't know about sikhs, or buddhists, but ancient hindus used to eat not only meat but also beef.

https://theconversation.com/hinduism...eat-them-80586

In the time of the oldest Hindu sacred text, the Rig Veda (c. 1500 B.C.), cow meat was consumed. Like most cattle-breeding cultures, the Vedic Indians generally ate the castrated steers, but they would eat the female of the species during rituals or when welcoming a guest or a person of high status.
Ancient ritual texts known as Brahmanas (c. 900 B.C.) and other texts that taught religious duty (dharma), from the third century B.C., say that a bull or cow should be killed to be eaten when a guest arrives.
According to these texts, “the cow is food.” Even when one passage in the “Shatapatha Brahmana” (3.1.2.21) forbids the eating of either cow or bull, a revered ancient Hindu sage named Yajnavalkya immediately contradicts it, saying that, nevertheless, he eats the meat of both cow and bull, “as long as it’s tender.”

What hinduism is changes from century to century, depending on what their followers want, they have no fixed creed or philosophy like Islam or Judaism.
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Physicist
05-04-2019, 07:36 PM
The reality is such, that human beings is dominating form on Earth. Other living forms either inhabiting what is not used by humans yet (wildlife), either filling niches to fulfill human needs (agriculture, livestock, pets).
Thus, meat industry, however rude it seems, provide a niche for livestock. If mankind will turn to veganism, population of many anymals will be reduced to that in zoos.

You can invent any ideology how to bread cattle for it's own sake, reducing human population, giving cows election rights and so on. It will not be accepted by mankind.
Furthermore, "animal rights" is a dangerous concept: Since they are unable to make decisions for themselves, someone will have to decide for them. Then, same someone will be making decisions for you.

Islam doesn't forces anyone to eat meat, it's your choice what you want to eat. But Islam put ethics into process, to prevent suffering of anymals and nourishing sadism of butchers. For example, while slaughtering, artery is being opened to let blood flow out and diminish consciousness of an animal (most humane and certain way of anesthesy at that time)

When I was staying in buddhist monastery, monks there were not allowed even to kill a mosquito, but they were happily eating meat, living dirty job of slaughtering to ordinary people.
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keiv
05-04-2019, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Wizard478
In islam it is perfectly acceptable to eat meat ie. I believe slaughtering animals in the name of God does not make it any better no matter what method is used. Animals have just as much right to be on earth as Humans. They were created by God. Killing them is killing Gods creation to satisfy hunger and taste when that could be done with non veg food and diet.
You’re right. Allah did create the animals as well as everything else. Allah made it permissible to eat meat and the prophet pbuh ate meat, so who are we to say it’s immoral? The same animals that Allah created are also out there eating each other to survive. Are they committing immoral acts as well?

Why is it perfectly acceptable to butcher animals. There are countless halal butchers displaying hanging animals with religious texts and pictures of mosques right next to these slaughtered animals.
Why is it acceptable to butcher animals? I imagine it would be hard to eat them while they are still alive. It’s also easier to cook and consume them when they are cut into pieces. Them hanging meat is no different than displaying it in a meat case. They’re selling a product and it’s being put on display. I don’t see how that’s even an argument.

In the Sikh, Hindu and Buddhist faith ie the Dharmic faiths. All practice and teach that Killing animals is completely wrong. We dont have anything such as preying over animals to make killing right. We practice a vegetarian diet.

Hence is Islam an unmoral and unjust faith as it sees no wrong in killing animals?
Apparently, Buddhists have more respect for the lives of animals than they do for Muslims, but please don’t let that stop you from telling us how immoral our beliefs are.
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Wizard478
05-04-2019, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
What we consider immoral or unjust is based on Allah's authority, not yours or any other human. The slaughtering of certain animals for food is permissible. The way the animal is raised, taken care of, and slaughtered are all taken into consideration for the benefit of the animal. This doesn't make eating meat immoral or unjust if it is allowed to us by Allah. With that being said, in Islam we are actually supposed to eat meat sparingly. Vegetarianism is more encouraged, but it doesn't mean that meat is not allowed.

Polytheistic faiths like the ones you've mentioned put more emphasis on animal spirit and life than we do. We don't worship our animals, we don't believe in reincarnation, we don't believe they suffer more than humans, etc. You can't look at islam and judge morality through the lens of polytheism.

Animals have hearts, souls and feelings just like humans do. It is actually proven that eating meat is harmful to the body. For the most part of human existence on earth people stretching back to millions of years. Humans have only eaten vegetable and plant based diet and they never had any issues with it. Meat eating is very new and has has only been widely eaten in the last 100 or 200 years due to mass production and farming methods.

The fact of the matter is that Dharmic faiths discourage meat eating and animal cruelty whereas in Islam they encourage followers to eat meat. Meat consumption pollutes the mind just like drinking alcohol and drugs.
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Wizard478
05-04-2019, 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by bint e aisha
Greetings. If you consider it immoral and unethical to eat animals then on what basis do you think eating plants is alright? They are also living organisms. They are also a creation of God. You said: Animals have just as much right to be on earth as Humans. They were created by God. Killing them is killing Gods creation to satisfy hunger and taste. I can say the same about plants. Why is eating vegetables, mushrooms not considered immoral when they are also living organisms? They are also a creation of God and they have as much right to be on Earth as Humans. They breath like we do, they grow like we do and they need nutrition like we do and to fulfill their nutritional requirements there are certain laws of nature. There is a food cycle and living organisms consume and take benefit from each other to survive. That is how God has created us and those are His laws.

Attachment 6679

You cannot compare eating meat to plants and vegetables that is not on. If we could not eat vegetables then we would starve. I agree to a certain extent with your post. All food whether it be meat or veg can be unethical. Ie if food id produced by illicit means ie by robbing the poor then that food will be deemed as being unethical food.

ie if meat is produced in a factory that causes more harm then that is unethical and unmoral.

It is about striking a healthy balance. Ie over producing vegetables can cause soil desegregation and is harmful to the planet.

In the Dharmic faiths eating meat is discouraged.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by keiv
You’re right. Allah did create the animals as well as everything else. Allah made it permissible to eat meat and the prophet pbuh ate meat, so who are we to say it’s immoral? The same animals that Allah created are also out there eating each other to survive. Are they committing immoral acts as well?



Why is it acceptable to butcher animals? I imagine it would be hard to eat them while they are still alive. It’s also easier to cook and consume them when they are cut into pieces. Them hanging meat is no different than displaying it in a meat case. They’re selling a product and it’s being put on display. I don’t see how that’s even an argument.



Apparently, Buddhists have more respect for the lives of animals than they do for Muslims, but please don’t let that stop you from telling us how immoral our beliefs are.
Kiev, animals eating other animals is perfectly acceptable. We cant do the same as we are above animals. God has given us a higher level of intelligence to know right from wrong.
Killing animals to feed our hunger when there is plenty of veg available is wrong. How would you like it if a animal ate you for his dinner?

Dharmic faiths are more ethical and fair on the world and society . Islam, Christianity and Judasim is all about wants and needs to satisfy oneself.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Physicist
The reality is such, that human beings is dominating form on Earth. Other living forms either inhabiting what is not used by humans yet (wildlife), either filling niches to fulfill human needs (agriculture, livestock, pets).
Thus, meat industry, however rude it seems, provide a niche for livestock. If mankind will turn to veganism, population of many anymals will be reduced to that in zoos.

You can invent any ideology how to bread cattle for it's own sake, reducing human population, giving cows election rights and so on. It will not be accepted by mankind.
Furthermore, "animal rights" is a dangerous concept: Since they are unable to make decisions for themselves, someone will have to decide for them. Then, same someone will be making decisions for you.

Islam doesn't forces anyone to eat meat, it's your choice what you want to eat. But Islam put ethics into process, to prevent suffering of anymals and nourishing sadism of butchers. For example, while slaughtering, artery is being opened to let blood flow out and diminish consciousness of an animal (most humane and certain way of anesthesy at that time)

When I was staying in buddhist monastery, monks there were not allowed even to kill a mosquito, but they were happily eating meat, living dirty job of slaughtering to ordinary people.
Killing animals in halal method which is exactly the same as kosher method has been proven to be very painful to the animal. It is a barbaric practice that was carried out in the dark ages. We have much more humane techniques to slaughter animals these days. Such as stunning. But Jews and muslims still practice old inhumane methods that are outdated.

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Medieval rabbis such as Joseph Albo and Isaac Arama regarded vegetarianism as a moral ideal,[55] and a number of modern Jewish groups and Jewish religious and cultural authorities have promoted vegetarianism. Groups advocating for Jewish vegetarianism include Jewish Veg, a contemporary grassroots organization promoting veganism as "God's ideal diet"[56], and the Shamayim V'Aretz Institute, which promotes a vegan diet in the Jewish community through animal welfare activism, kosher veganism, and Jewish spirituality.[57] One source of advocacy for Jewish vegetarianism in Israel is Amirim, a vegetarian moshav (village).[58]
Jewish Veg has named 75 contemporary rabbis who encourage veganism for all Jews, including Jonathan Wittenberg, Daniel Sperber, David Wolpe, Nathan Lopes Cardozo, Kerry Olitzky, Shmuly Yanklowitz, Aryeh Cohen, Geoffrey Claussen, Rami M. Shapiro, David Rosen, Raysh Weiss, Elyse Goldstein, Shefa Gold, and Yonassan Gershom.[59][60] Other rabbis who have promoted vegetarianism have included David Cohen, Shlomo Goren, Irving Greenberg, Asa Keisar, Jonathan Sacks, She'ar Yashuv Cohen, and Yitzhak HaLevi Herzog. Other notable advocates of Jewish vegetarianism include Franz Kafka, Roberta Kalechofsky, Richard H. Schwartz, Isaac Bashevis Singer, Jonathan Safran Foer, and Aaron S. Gross.
Jewish vegetarians often cite Jewish principles regarding animal welfare, environmental ethics, moral character, and health as reasons for adopting a vegetarian or vegan diet.[61][62]Some Jews point to legal principles including Bal tashkhit (the law which prohibits waste) and Tza'ar ba'alei hayyim (the injunction not to cause ‘pain to living creatures’).[63] Many Jewish vegetarians are particularly concerned about cruel practices in factory farms and high-speed, mechanized slaughterhouses.[64] Jonathan Safran Foer has raised these concerns in the short documentary film If This Is Kosher..., responding to what he considers abuses within the kosher meat industry.[65]
Some Jewish vegetarians have pointed out that Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat meat. Genesis 1:29 states "And God said: Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree that has seed-yielding fruit—to you it shall be for food," indicating that God's original plan was for mankind to be vegan.[66]· According to some opinions, the whole world will again be vegetarian in the Messianic era, and not eating meat brings the world closer to that ideal.[66] As the ideal images of the Torah are vegetarian, one may see the laws of kashrut as actually designed to wean Jews away from meat eating and to move them toward the vegetarian ideal.[63]
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Wizard478
05-04-2019, 11:33 PM
You are wrong that Islam says eat meat sparingly. See this extract. See below you even sacrafice meat for religious occasions. In Sikhism, Hinduism, Buddhism, meat is treated much the same way as alcohol or other intoxicants. Is is strictly forbidden to enter temples with meat or even consume meat before entering let alone sacrificing animals for religious occasions.

Islam explicitly prohibits eating of some kinds of meat, especially pork. However, one of the most important Islamic celebrations, Eid ul-Adha, involves animal sacrifices. Muslims who can afford to do so sacrifice a domestic animals (usually sheep, but also camels, cows, and goats). According to the Quran,[74] a large portion of the meat has to be given towards the poor and hungry, and every effort is to be made to see that no impoverished Muslim is left without sacrificial food during days of feast like Eid-ul-Adha.[75] Certain Islamic orders are mainly vegetarian; many Sufis maintain a vegetarian diet.[76] Some Muslims think that being a vegetarian for reasons other than health is un-Islamic and it goes against the fitra.[77]
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CuriousonTruth
05-05-2019, 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by Wizard478
You are wrong that Islam says eat meat sparingly. See this extract. See below you even sacrafice meat for religious occasions. In Sikhism, Hinduism, Buddhism, meat is treated much the same way as alcohol or other intoxicants. Is is strictly forbidden to enter temples with meat or even consume meat before entering let alone sacrificing animals for religious occasions.

Islam explicitly prohibits eating of some kinds of meat, especially pork. However, one of the most important Islamic celebrations, Eid ul-Adha, involves animal sacrifices. Muslims who can afford to do so sacrifice a domestic animals (usually sheep, but also camels, cows, and goats). According to the Quran,[74] a large portion of the meat has to be given towards the poor and hungry, and every effort is to be made to see that no impoverished Muslim is left without sacrificial food during days of feast like Eid-ul-Adha.[75] Certain Islamic orders are mainly vegetarian; many Sufis maintain a vegetarian diet.[76] Some Muslims think that being a vegetarian for reasons other than health is un-Islamic and it goes against the fitra.[77]
Well this is the first time you got something right. Yes, we don't eat meat sparingly, it is a staple part of our diet for sure.
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manofIslam
05-11-2019, 06:00 AM
Originally Posted by keiv
Apparently, Buddhists have more respect for the lives of animals than they do for Muslims, but please don’t let that stop you from telling us how immoral our beliefs are.
Oh, keiv, my Dear Brother in Islam: I love your sense of humour!! I almost fell off my chair, laughing, when I read this!!
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eesa the kiwi
05-11-2019, 07:35 AM
Jazak Allah khair to the muslims who responded
thread closed
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