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InsaanAbdulla
05-21-2019, 10:30 PM
Assalamu Alaikum,

I’ve been struggling very hard with a topic and its troubling me a lot!

what did Allah create first. The heavens or the earth.
I completely understand that Allah created the heavens and earth in 6 days But what did he create first?

The verses in the Qur'an that speak of any chronology regarding the creation of the Heaven and Earth are 2: 29, 41: (9-12 )and 79: (28-30)

1) Iman Ibn Kathir(ra) in his tafsir states the opinion of Ibn Abbas (ra) who mentions 3 phases.
1) that the Earth was created first, 2) then the heavens were created and 3) then the earth was spread out.

2) According to Ibn Abbas in the 1st Phase, only the earth was created. So my question is what exactly does this earth refer to?
Is it the raw materials that form the earth and planets or does it refer to a single lifeless spherical planet?

3) However, Imam Qurtubi (ra) in his tafsir states that Qatada (ra) mentions 4 phases of creation.
1) the heavens were created first as smoke, 2) then the earth was created, 3) then the 7 heavens were perfected and 4) then the earth was spread out.
Is it okay to favour this opinion of Al Qurtubi (ra) over that of Ibn Abbas (ra)?
What exactly is the smoke here referring to? The raw un arranged state of matter or something else?

4) The verse 41:11 clearly indicates that the smoke of the heaven was already existing when Allah had created the earth. Does this imply that both the earth and heavens were simultaneously created?


5) if one were to favour Ibn Abbas’s opinion, it would mean that Allah created the earth before all the sun and the stars and galaxies.
But it is known today that the sun and stars are older than earth. How to reconcile this?

Please help me clearing this confusion.
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Abz2000
05-22-2019, 05:54 AM
How will this information benefit you?
Do you really think that any of us know, and you will get an accurate answer to that question?
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Ümit
05-22-2019, 08:17 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
How will this information benefit you?
Do you really think that any of us know, and you will get an accurate answer to that question?
The information itself can be pretty beneficial as you will get a better picture of the whole. I do not doubt that.

The issue is...that as you said, nobody has an accurate answer. The Quraan is not a science book. You cannot derive such information from the verses just like that.
As we understand more and more from the world and universe, we will see that our scientifical conclusions corresponds with the verses...but I think, this subject will not be cleared that easy.

Besides, the answer may not even be in the range of our understanding. as you know, our minds is limited...and the answer, even though logical, may or may not be more complex than we may comprehend.

But in what way are you struggling so hard? and why does this give you so much trouble?
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Ahmed.
05-23-2019, 01:55 PM
The heavens in space form was created first as the 'smoke' refers to the gasses in space:

https://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-c.htm

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by InsaanAbdulla
But it is known today that the sun and stars are older than earth
It is not known today at all, cosmology is mostly theoretical thus it is only assumed or conjectured
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InsaanAbdulla
05-25-2019, 10:16 AM
Alhamdullilah!

I'm only asking in light of the the Ikhtilaaf.
One camp that consists of Qatada (ra) and Al Qurtubi (ra) are of the opinion that the heavens were created first.

Whereas a Ibn Abbas (ra), Mujahid (ra) Ibn Kathir (ra) and many others are of the opinion that the earth was created first then the heavens.

On the other hand, there is another camp that says that both of them took place simultaneously, as they interpreted the word "thumma" to not mean any physical chronological sequence of events but more of a linguistic device . This was the view of Ali abi talib Talha (ra) as reported by Ibn Abbas. This view has also been mentioned also Imam Qurtubi (ra) and also mentioned by Imam Razi (ra) and some others.

So with this Ikhtilaaf, i was having trouble as to which view to favour.
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Ahmed.
05-25-2019, 06:03 PM
Just favour any view as this has no bearing on your actions, I.e, it doesn't matter if you've chosen the right or wrong opinion on it as they are all valid to a laymen and it is not anything to act upon.
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Muhammad
05-25-2019, 06:45 PM
وعليكم السلام

The following links may be of help:
https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/285217/
https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/342076/
https://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...html#post13942

And Allah knows best.
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InsaanAbdulla
05-26-2019, 06:34 AM
SubhanAllah!

The depth of Ilm that the noble scholar were given!

Muhammad Al-Ameen Ash-Shinqeeti icon6 1 - said :

The first is that what is meant by creating all that is on the earth before the creation of the heaven is the linguistic creation, which is the predestination (or predetermination) and not the actual creation which is the bringing into existence from nonexistence, and the Arabs call predestination creation. The evidence that what is meant by this creation here is the predestination is that Allaah explicitly said this in Soorah Fussilat, as Allaah says (what means): {….and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance} [Quran 41:10], and then He said (what means): {…Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke.} [Quran 41:12]

The second interpretation is that when He created the earth without it being spread, and it is the origin of everything upon it, it was as if He actually created because of the actual existence of its origin. The evidence from the Quran that it is possible to speak of what is derived from the existence of the origin as creation, even if it did not exist, are the words of Allaah (which mean): {And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then, We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Aadam (Adam)".} [Quran 7:11] Thus, Allaah's words (which mean), {And We have certainly created you} means that "We created and shaped your father, Aadam," who is your origin. Some scholars reconciled the verses by saying that the meaning of "after that" in Allaah’s words {And after that He spread the earth} means "along with that" (or moreover); similarly, Allaah says, {Cruel, moreover an illegitimate pretender}, meaning cruel and an illegitimate pretender [Quran 68:13]. Accordingly, there is no ambiguity or confusion about the verse. This is even supported by a Shaath (irregular) recitation of the above verse in which Mujaahid recited {And along with that He spread the earth} (instead of "And after that", as in more common recitations).” [End of quote]

SubhanAllah! The depth of the Arabic language!

So from the above quote of Sheikh Shinqeeti (May Allah have Mercy on him) can we understand that the "actual" physical creation of earth didn't take place first, but only its predestination?

can you simplify it further for me please? Does it mean just just the conceptualisation of the earth?
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InsaanAbdulla
06-08-2019, 08:24 AM
@greenhill , Firstly, I find it very disturbing that you've interpreted the noble ayahs in line with the deviant sufi and barelvi aqeedah. Please refer to a proper scholar and In Sha Allah, make a recourse towards the sahih aqeedah.

The noble scholars of the old and the new of the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah are unanimous that the Throne was created first. And that the Throne was on the Water.

Secondly, The blessed Prophet of Allah, Al-Mustafa Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) is only a Human being. He is not physically made of light. (Nauzubillah)
Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is a man and a son of Adam (pbuh).

Thirdly, The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is without a doubt a Light (noor). But this is the Light of the Guidance (hidayah). Just like the Qur'an is a Light (of hidayah). It isn't a physical or some kind of a spiritual light.

Fourthly, The Angels were created from Light. (Sahih Muslim)
All the prophets, including Muhammed (pbuh) were sons of Adam (pbuh) and Adam (pbuh) was made of Clay.

Fifthly, to connect the description of the Quran with The Big bang theory is not at all advisable according to many scholars. Because the Qur'an is independent of any scientific theory. in fact it is limiting the Qur'an. The description of the Qur'an is very unique and Only Allah Knows best how the Universe was created (Quran 18:51)

Sixthly, the topic of discussion here was about what Allah created first, The heavens or the Earth. Not about what is the first creation of Allah.
Because it is confirmed from the Sunnah, that the creation of the Throne, The Pen, The Water predated the creation of Heavens and earth.

Allahu Ta'ala Aalam.
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greenhill
06-08-2019, 11:41 AM
Thank you for generous input @InsaanAbdulla .
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Physicist
06-08-2019, 08:35 PM
My opinion is that heavens (in the meaning of Janna and Hell, where people will abide after Judgement Day) from our perspective is still to be created. But for Allah time doesn't matter, He created past and future altogether.

From how I remember (can't copypast now)

"Allah created Earth and inclined for Heavens"

"Earth will be replaced with another Earth, as well as heavens" (14:48)

The thing about opening graves and judgement day. Those who died already, they wait the judgement day, not already in the heaven.

Throne is something different.
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نور الرحمن
03-12-2020, 09:45 PM
Peace be upon you fellow brother, and praise be to the Creator of the Universe and all it includes. The Holy Quran talks in great details about the Universe and the movement of the planets which will solve the disputes in the Cosmology department. Allah The Specialist The All Knowing surely knows best about the universe for that He is The One who created it and regarding your question He clearly mentions that the creation of the Earth was first in two days and He said:{29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all thing.} then the creation of the heavens was after in two days then came back to the Earth for its sustenance in two days and that is a total of six days but it is six days in the days of Allah not in our days for that He said:{47.A day with your Lord is like a thousand years of your count.} Although He is kind to his worshippers and made things believable but those who have a strong faith will believe in Allah even if He created the whole Universe in a second for that He is capable of anything with the speed of an eye.
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