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HabibUrrehman
07-19-2019, 10:59 PM
Each person is born in a circumstance which is not of his own choice. The religion of his family or the ideology of the state is thrust upon him from the very beginning of his existence in this world. By the time he reaches his teens, he is usually fully brain-washed into believing that the beliefs of his particular society are the correct beliefs that everyone should have. However, when some people mature and are exposed to other belief-systems, they begin to question the validity of their own beliefs. The seekers of truth often reach a point of confusion upon realizing that each and every religion, sect, ideology and philosophy claims to be the one and only correct way for man. Indeed, they all encourage people to do good. So, which one is right? They cannot all be right, since each claims all others are wrong.

Then how does the seeker of truth choose the right way?

God gave us all minds and intellects to enable us to make this crucial decision. It is the most important decision in the life of a human being. Upon it depends his future. Consequently, each and every one of us must examine dispassionately the evidence presented, and choose what appears to be right until further evidence arises.


Like every other religion or philosophy, Islam also claims to be the one and only true way to God. In this respect it is no different from other systems. This thread intends to provide some evidence for the validity of that claim. However, it must always be kept in mind that one can only determine the true path by putting aside emotions and prejudices, which often blind us to reality. Then, and only then, will we be able to use our God-given intelligence and make a rational and correct decision.


There are several arguments which may be advanced to support Islam’s claim to be the true religion of God. The following are only three of the most obvious.
The first argument is based on the divine origin of the names of the religion and the comprehensiveness of its meaning.
The second deals with the unique and uncomplicated teachings concerning the relationship between God, man, and creation.
The third argument derives from the fact that Islam is universally attainable by all men at all times.

These are the three basic components of what logic and reason dictate necessary for a religion to be considered the true religion of God.

The divine origin of the names of the religion and the comprehensiveness of its meaning:


The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam, is what the word “Islam” itself means. The Arabic word “Islam” means the submission or surrender of one’s will to the only true God, known in Arabic as “Allah”. One who submits his will to God is termed in Arabic a “Muslim”. The religion of Islam is not named after a person or a people, nor was it decided by a later generation of man, as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gautama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, Marxism after Karl Marx, Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam (submission to the will of God) is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of God, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. Further, its name was chosen by God Himself, and clearly mentioned in the final scripture which He revealed to man. In that final revelation, called in Arabic the Quran, Allah states the following:


“…This day have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion…” (Quran 5:3)
“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him.” (Quran 3:85)
Hence, Islam does not claim to be a new religion brought by Prophet Mohammed into Arabia in the seventh century, but rather to be a re-expression in its final form of the true religion of Almighty God, Allah, as it was originally revealed to Adam and subsequent prophets.


At this point, we might comment briefly on two other religions that claim to be the true path.

Nowhere in the Bible will you find God revealing to Prophet Moses’ people or their descendants that their religion is called Judaism, or to the followers of Christ that their religion is called Christianity. In other words, the names “Judaism” and “Christianity” had no divine origin or approval. It was not until long after his departure that the name Christianity was given to Jesus’ religion.


What, then, was Jesus’ religion in actual fact, as distinct from its name? His religion was reflected in his teachings, which he urged his followers to accept as guiding principles in their relationship with God. In Islam, Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah, and his Arabic name is Eesaa. Like the prophets before him, he called upon the people to surrender their will to the will of God (which is what Islam stands for). For example, in the New Testament it is stated that Jesus taught his followers to pray to God as follows:


“Our father in heaven, hallowed be your name, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” (Luke 1 1:2/Matthew 6:9-10)
This concept was emphasized by Jesus in a number of his statements recorded in the Gospels. He taught, for example, that only those who submitted would inherit paradise.


“None of those who call me ‘Lord’ will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)
Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the will of God.


“I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him who sent me.” (John 5:30)
There are many reports in the Gospels which show that Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not the one true God. For example, when speaking about the final Hour, he said:


“No-one knows about the day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, not the son, but only the Father.” (Mark 13:32)
Thus Jesus, like the prophets before him and the one who came after him, taught the religion of Islam: submission to the will of the one true God.

The unique and uncomplicated teachings concerning the relationship between God, man, and creation:

Since the total submission of one’s will to God represents the essence of worship, the basic message of God’s divine religion, Islam, is the worship of God alone. It also requires the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than God. Since everything other than God, the creator of all the things, is God’s creation, it may be said that Islam, in essence, calls man away from worship of creation and invites him to worship only his Creator. He is the only one deserving of man’s worship, because it is only by His will that prayers are answered.


Accordingly, if a man prays to a tree and his prayers are answered, it is not the tree which answers his prayers, but God, who allows the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say, “That is obvious.” However, to tree-worshippers, it might not be so. Similarly, prayers to Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna or Saint Christopher, or Saint Jude or even to Muhammad are not answered by them, but are answered by God. Jesus did not tell his followers to worship him, but to worship God, as the Quran states:


“And behold! God will say: ‘O Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say to men, worship me and my mother as gods besides God?’ He will say: ‘Glory to you, I could never say what I had no right (to say)...’” (Quran 5:116)
Nor did Jesus worship himself when he worshipped, but rather he worshipped God. And Jesus was reported in the Gospels to have said:
“It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’” (Luke 4:8)

This basic principle is contained in the opening chapter of the Quran, known as Surah al--Faatihah, verse 4:
“You alone do we worship and from You alone do we seek help.” (Quran 1:5)
Elsewhere, in the final book of revelation, the Quran, God also said:
“And your Lord says: ‘Call on Me and I will answer your (prayer).’” (Quran 40:60)
It is worth emphasizing that the basic message of Islam (namely, the worship of God alone) also proclaims that God and His creation are distinctly different entities. God is neither equal to His creation nor a part of it, nor is His creation equal to Him or a part of Him.
This might seem obvious, but man’s worship of creation instead of the Creator is to a large degree based on ignorance, or neglect, of this concept. It is the belief that the essence of God is everywhere in His creation or that His divine being is or was present in some parts of His creation, which has provided justification for the worship of God’s creation and naming it the worship of God. However, the message of Islam, as brought by the prophets of God, is to worship only God and to avoid the worship of His creation either directly or indirectly.


In the Quran God clearly states:
“For we assuredly sent amongst every people a prophet, with the command worship God and avoid false Gods…” (Quran 16:36)
When idol worshippers are questioned as to why they bow down to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not actually worshipping the stone image, but God, who is present within it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for God’s essence and is not in itself God! One who has accepted the concept of God being present in any way within His creation will be obliged to accept this argument for idolatry. Whereas, one who understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would never agree to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized.


Those who have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often based their claims on the mistaken belief that God is present in man. Taking one step further, they claim that God is more present in them than in the rest of us, and that other humans should therefore submit to them and worship them as God in person or as God concentrated within their persons. Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their deaths have found fertile ground among those who accept the false belief of God’s presence in man.


It should be abundantly clear by now that one who has grasped the basic message of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another human being under any circumstance. God’s religion, in essence, is a clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:


“Laa Ilaaha illaa Allah” (There is no God but God)
The sincere declaration of this phrase and the acceptance of prophethood automatically bring one within the fold of Islam, and sincere belief in it guarantees one Paradise. Thus, the final Prophet of Islam, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him is reported to have said:


“Anyone who says: ‘There is no God but God’ and dies holding that (belief) will enter paradise.”
Belief in this declaration of faith requires that one submit his/her will to God in the way taught by the prophets of God. It also requires the believer to give up the worship of false gods.

There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path of God. How can one determine which one is correct or whether, in fact, all are correct?

One method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identifies the central object of worship upon which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regard to God: they either claim that all men are gods, or that specific men were God, or that nature is God, or that God is a figment of man’s imagination. Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that God may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religions invite man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God.

For example, Prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship God, but those who claim to be Jesus followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was God. Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles in the religion of India. He did not claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and they prostrate themselves to idols made in their perception of his likeness.


By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, we can easily detect false religions and the contrived nature of their origin. As God said in the Quran:


“You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named, you and your forefathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority: the command belongs only to Allah: He has commanded that you worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand.” (Quran 12:40)
It may be argued that all religions teach good things, so why should it matter which one we follow?

The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship God alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Quran:


“I have only created jinns and men, that they may worship Me.” (Quran 51:56)
Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry, has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by God in his final revelation to man:
“Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whomsoever He wishes...” (Quran 4:48, 4:116)
Islam is universally attainable by all men at all times:

Since the consequences of following a false religion are so grave, the true religion of God must have been universally understandable and universally attainable in the past, and it must continue eternally to be understandable and attainable throughout the entire world. In other words, the true religion of God cannot be confined to any one people, place, or period of time. Nor is it logical that such a religion should impose conditions that have nothing to do with the relationship of man with God, such as baptism, or belief in man as a savior, or an intermediary. Within the central principle of Islam and its definition (the surrender of one’s will to God) lie the roots of Islam’s universality. Whenever man comes to the realization that God is one and distinct from His creation, and submits himself to God, he becomes a Muslim in body and spirit and is eligible for paradise.

Consequently, anyone at any time in the most remote regions of the world can become Muslim, a follower of God’s religion, Islam, by merely rejecting the worship of creation and turning to God alone. It should be noted, however, that in order to actually submit to God’s will, one must continually choose between right and wrong. Indeed, man is endowed by God with the power not only to distinguish right from wrong but also to choose between them. These God-given powers carry with them an important responsibility, namely, that man is answerable to God for the choices he makes. It follows, then, that man should try his utmost to do good and avoid evil. These concepts are expressed in the final revelation as follows:


“Verily, those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians – any of these who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord. They will not be overcome by fear or grief.” (Quran 2:62)
If, for whatever reason, they fail to accept the final message after it has been clearly explained to them, they will be in grave danger. The last Prophet said:


“Whoever among the Christians and Jews hear of me but does not affirm his belief in what I brought and dies in this state will be among the inhabitants of Hell.” (Saheeh Muslim Vol.1 P.91 No, 284)
The question which arises here is: How can all people be expected to believe in the one true God, given their varying backgrounds, societies and cultures?

For people to be held responsible for worshipping the one true God, they all need to have access to knowledge of Him. The final revelation teaches that all human beings have the recognition of the one true God imprinted on their souls as a part of their very nature with which they are created.


In the seventh chapter of the Quran (al-A`raaf, verses 172-173), God explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam’s descendants to come into existence and He took a pledge from them saying:


“‘Am I not your Lord ?’…to which they all replied:
‘Yes, we testify to it.’
God then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and the only true God worthy of worship. He said:
‘That was in case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, ‘Verily we were unaware of all this.’” (Quran 7:172)

That is to say, we cannot claim on that day that we had no idea that God was our God and that no one told us that we were only supposed to worship God alone. God went on to further explain that:

“It was also in case you should say, ‘Certainly it was our ancestors who made partners (with God) and we are only their descendants; will you then destroy us for what those liars did?’” (Quran 7:173)
Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in God and an in-born inclination to worship Him alone. This in-born belief and inclination is called in Arabic the Fitrah”.
The Prophet Muhammad reported that God said:


“I created my servants in the right religion, but devils made them go astray.” (Saheeh Muslim)
The Prophet also said:
“Each child is born in a state of Fitrah. Then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian.” (Saheeh al-Bukhari)
If the child were left alone, he would worship God in his own way, but all children are affected by the environment. So, just as the child submits to the physical laws, which God has imposed on nature, in the same way, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, if his parents try to make him follow a different path, the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. In such cases, the religion which the child follows, is one of custom and upbringing, and God does not hold him to account or punish him for his religion up to a certain stage of his life.

Throughout people’s lives, from childhood until the time they die, signs of the one and only true God are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah). God says in the Quran:


“We will show them our signs in the furthest regions (of the earth) and in their souls, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth…” (Quran 41:53)
The following is an example of God revealing by a sign to one man the error of his idol-worship.

In the south-eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their man-idol Skwatch, representing the supreme God of all creation. The following day a young man entered the hut to pay homage to the God, and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog slunk into the hut. The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift his hind leg and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of the temple; but when his rage died down, he realized that the idol could not be the Lord of the Universe. God must be elsewhere, he concluded. As strange as it may seem, the dog urinating on the idol was a sign from God for that young man. This sign contained the divine message that what he was worshipping was false. It liberated him from slavishly following his traditionally learned worship of a false god. As a result, this man was given a choice: either to seek the true God or to continue in the error of his ways.


God mentions Prophet Abraham’s quest for God as an example of how those who follow His signs will be rightly guided:


“So also did we show Abraham the power and the Laws of the heavens and the earth that he might (with understanding) have certitude.When the night covered him over, he saw a star. He said: ‘This is my Lord.’ But when it set, he said: ‘I love not those that set.’
When he saw the moon rising in splendor, he said: ‘This is my Lord.’ But when the moon set, he said: ‘Unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among those who go astray.’
When he saw the rising sun in splendor, he said: ‘This is my Lord, this is the greatest (of all).’ But when the sun set, he said: ‘O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to God.
For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to God.” (Quran 6:75-79)

As was mentioned earlier, prophets have been sent to every nation and tribe to support man’s natural belief in God and man’s in-born inclination to worship Him, as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by God. Although much of these prophets’ teachings became distorted, portions revealing their God-inspired messages have remained untainted and have served to guide mankind in the choice between right and wrong. The influence of God-inspired messages down through the ages can be seen in the Ten Commandments of Judaism’s Torah, which were later adopted into Christianity’s teachings, as well as in the existence of laws against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies throughout the ancient and modern world. As a result of God’s signs to mankind through the ages, combined with His revelation through His prophets, all mankind has been given a chance to recognize the one only true God. Consequently, every soul will be held accountable for its belief in God and its acceptance of the true religion of God, namely Islam, which means total submission to the will of God.


The preceding presentation has demonstrated that the name of the religion of Islam expresses Islam’s most central principle, submission to God, and that the name “Islam” was chosen not by man, but by God, according to the holy scriptures of Islam. It has also been shown that Islam alone teaches the uniqueness of God and His attributes and enjoins the worship of God alone without intermediaries. Finally, due to the divinely instilled inclination of man to worship God and the signs revealed by God throughout the ages to each individual, Islam may be achieved by all men at all times.
In short, the significance of the name Islam (submission to God), Islam’s fundamental acknowledgment of the uniqueness of God, and Islam’s accessibility to all mankind at all times, convincingly support Islam’s claim that, from the beginning of time, in whatever language it was expressed, Islam alone has been, and will be, the true religion of God.


In conclusion, we ask God, the exalted, to keep us on the right path to which He has guided us, and to bestow on us His Blessings and Mercy, for He is indeed the Most Merciful. Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds, and Peace and Blessings be on Prophet Muhammad and on all the prophets of God and their righteous followers.

Thanks to Dr. Bilal Philips for reviewing and approving the material in this post.
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Ahmed.
07-20-2019, 02:15 PM
That's some good effort you put in there brother for everyone's guidance! Jazakamullah khairan :)
Reply

chalks75
07-21-2019, 11:08 AM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
Each person is born in a circumstance which is not of his own choice. The religion of his family or the ideology of the state is thrust upon him from the very beginning of his existence in this world. By the time he reaches his teens, he is usually fully brain-washed into believing that the beliefs of his particular society are the correct beliefs that everyone should have. However, when some people mature and are exposed to other belief-systems, they begin to question the validity of their own beliefs. The seekers of truth often reach a point of confusion upon realizing that each and every religion, sect, ideology and philosophy claims to be the one and only correct way for man. Indeed, they all encourage people to do good. So, which one is right? They cannot all be right, since each claims all others are wrong.

Then how does the seeker of truth choose the right way?

God gave us all minds and intellects to enable us to make this crucial decision. It is the most important decision in the life of a human being. Upon it depends his future. Consequently, each and every one of us must examine dispassionately the evidence presented, and choose what appears to be right until further evidence arises.


Like every other religion or philosophy, Islam also claims to be the one and only true way to God. In this respect it is no different from other systems. This thread intends to provide some evidence for the validity of that claim. However, it must always be kept in mind that one can only determine the true path by putting aside emotions and prejudices, which often blind us to reality. Then, and only then, will we be able to use our God-given intelligence and make a rational and correct decision.


There are several arguments which may be advanced to support Islam’s claim to be the true religion of God. The following are only three of the most obvious.
The first argument is based on the divine origin of the names of the religion and the comprehensiveness of its meaning.
The second deals with the unique and uncomplicated teachings concerning the relationship between God, man, and creation.
The third argument derives from the fact that Islam is universally attainable by all men at all times.

These are the three basic components of what logic and reason dictate necessary for a religion to be considered the true religion of God.

The divine origin of the names of the religion and the comprehensiveness of its meaning:


The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam, is what the word “Islam” itself means. The Arabic word “Islam” means the submission or surrender of one’s will to the only true God, known in Arabic as “Allah”. One who submits his will to God is termed in Arabic a “Muslim”. The religion of Islam is not named after a person or a people, nor was it decided by a later generation of man, as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gautama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, Marxism after Karl Marx, Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam (submission to the will of God) is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of God, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. Further, its name was chosen by God Himself, and clearly mentioned in the final scripture which He revealed to man. In that final revelation, called in Arabic the Quran, Allah states the following:





Hence, Islam does not claim to be a new religion brought by Prophet Mohammed into Arabia in the seventh century, but rather to be a re-expression in its final form of the true religion of Almighty God, Allah, as it was originally revealed to Adam and subsequent prophets.


At this point, we might comment briefly on two other religions that claim to be the true path.

Nowhere in the Bible will you find God revealing to Prophet Moses’ people or their descendants that their religion is called Judaism, or to the followers of Christ that their religion is called Christianity. In other words, the names “Judaism” and “Christianity” had no divine origin or approval. It was not until long after his departure that the name Christianity was given to Jesus’ religion.


What, then, was Jesus’ religion in actual fact, as distinct from its name? His religion was reflected in his teachings, which he urged his followers to accept as guiding principles in their relationship with God. In Islam, Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah, and his Arabic name is Eesaa. Like the prophets before him, he called upon the people to surrender their will to the will of God (which is what Islam stands for). For example, in the New Testament it is stated that Jesus taught his followers to pray to God as follows:




This concept was emphasized by Jesus in a number of his statements recorded in the Gospels. He taught, for example, that only those who submitted would inherit paradise.




Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the will of God.




There are many reports in the Gospels which show that Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not the one true God. For example, when speaking about the final Hour, he said:




Thus Jesus, like the prophets before him and the one who came after him, taught the religion of Islam: submission to the will of the one true God.

The unique and uncomplicated teachings concerning the relationship between God, man, and creation:

Since the total submission of one’s will to God represents the essence of worship, the basic message of God’s divine religion, Islam, is the worship of God alone. It also requires the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than God. Since everything other than God, the creator of all the things, is God’s creation, it may be said that Islam, in essence, calls man away from worship of creation and invites him to worship only his Creator. He is the only one deserving of man’s worship, because it is only by His will that prayers are answered.


Accordingly, if a man prays to a tree and his prayers are answered, it is not the tree which answers his prayers, but God, who allows the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say, “That is obvious.” However, to tree-worshippers, it might not be so. Similarly, prayers to Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna or Saint Christopher, or Saint Jude or even to Muhammad are not answered by them, but are answered by God. Jesus did not tell his followers to worship him, but to worship God, as the Quran states:




Nor did Jesus worship himself when he worshipped, but rather he worshipped God. And Jesus was reported in the Gospels to have said:



This basic principle is contained in the opening chapter of the Quran, known as Surah al--Faatihah, verse 4:

Elsewhere, in the final book of revelation, the Quran, God also said:


It is worth emphasizing that the basic message of Islam (namely, the worship of God alone) also proclaims that God and His creation are distinctly different entities. God is neither equal to His creation nor a part of it, nor is His creation equal to Him or a part of Him.
This might seem obvious, but man’s worship of creation instead of the Creator is to a large degree based on ignorance, or neglect, of this concept. It is the belief that the essence of God is everywhere in His creation or that His divine being is or was present in some parts of His creation, which has provided justification for the worship of God’s creation and naming it the worship of God. However, the message of Islam, as brought by the prophets of God, is to worship only God and to avoid the worship of His creation either directly or indirectly.


In the Quran God clearly states:


When idol worshippers are questioned as to why they bow down to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not actually worshipping the stone image, but God, who is present within it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for God’s essence and is not in itself God! One who has accepted the concept of God being present in any way within His creation will be obliged to accept this argument for idolatry. Whereas, one who understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would never agree to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized.


Those who have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often based their claims on the mistaken belief that God is present in man. Taking one step further, they claim that God is more present in them than in the rest of us, and that other humans should therefore submit to them and worship them as God in person or as God concentrated within their persons. Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their deaths have found fertile ground among those who accept the false belief of God’s presence in man.


It should be abundantly clear by now that one who has grasped the basic message of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another human being under any circumstance. God’s religion, in essence, is a clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:




The sincere declaration of this phrase and the acceptance of prophethood automatically bring one within the fold of Islam, and sincere belief in it guarantees one Paradise. Thus, the final Prophet of Islam, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him is reported to have said:




Belief in this declaration of faith requires that one submit his/her will to God in the way taught by the prophets of God. It also requires the believer to give up the worship of false gods.

There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path of God. How can one determine which one is correct or whether, in fact, all are correct?

One method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identifies the central object of worship upon which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regard to God: they either claim that all men are gods, or that specific men were God, or that nature is God, or that God is a figment of man’s imagination. Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that God may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religions invite man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God.

For example, Prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship God, but those who claim to be Jesus followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was God. Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles in the religion of India. He did not claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and they prostrate themselves to idols made in their perception of his likeness.


By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, we can easily detect false religions and the contrived nature of their origin. As God said in the Quran:




It may be argued that all religions teach good things, so why should it matter which one we follow?

The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship God alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Quran:



Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry, has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by God in his final revelation to man:


Islam is universally attainable by all men at all times:

Since the consequences of following a false religion are so grave, the true religion of God must have been universally understandable and universally attainable in the past, and it must continue eternally to be understandable and attainable throughout the entire world. In other words, the true religion of God cannot be confined to any one people, place, or period of time. Nor is it logical that such a religion should impose conditions that have nothing to do with the relationship of man with God, such as baptism, or belief in man as a savior, or an intermediary. Within the central principle of Islam and its definition (the surrender of one’s will to God) lie the roots of Islam’s universality. Whenever man comes to the realization that God is one and distinct from His creation, and submits himself to God, he becomes a Muslim in body and spirit and is eligible for paradise.

Consequently, anyone at any time in the most remote regions of the world can become Muslim, a follower of God’s religion, Islam, by merely rejecting the worship of creation and turning to God alone. It should be noted, however, that in order to actually submit to God’s will, one must continually choose between right and wrong. Indeed, man is endowed by God with the power not only to distinguish right from wrong but also to choose between them. These God-given powers carry with them an important responsibility, namely, that man is answerable to God for the choices he makes. It follows, then, that man should try his utmost to do good and avoid evil. These concepts are expressed in the final revelation as follows:




If, for whatever reason, they fail to accept the final message after it has been clearly explained to them, they will be in grave danger. The last Prophet said:




The question which arises here is: How can all people be expected to believe in the one true God, given their varying backgrounds, societies and cultures?

For people to be held responsible for worshipping the one true God, they all need to have access to knowledge of Him. The final revelation teaches that all human beings have the recognition of the one true God imprinted on their souls as a part of their very nature with which they are created.


In the seventh chapter of the Quran (al-A`raaf, verses 172-173), God explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam’s descendants to come into existence and He took a pledge from them saying:





That is to say, we cannot claim on that day that we had no idea that God was our God and that no one told us that we were only supposed to worship God alone. God went on to further explain that:


Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in God and an in-born inclination to worship Him alone. This in-born belief and inclination is called in Arabic the Fitrah”.
The Prophet Muhammad reported that God said:


The Prophet also said:


If the child were left alone, he would worship God in his own way, but all children are affected by the environment. So, just as the child submits to the physical laws, which God has imposed on nature, in the same way, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, if his parents try to make him follow a different path, the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. In such cases, the religion which the child follows, is one of custom and upbringing, and God does not hold him to account or punish him for his religion up to a certain stage of his life.

Throughout people’s lives, from childhood until the time they die, signs of the one and only true God are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah). God says in the Quran:




The following is an example of God revealing by a sign to one man the error of his idol-worship.

In the south-eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their man-idol Skwatch, representing the supreme God of all creation. The following day a young man entered the hut to pay homage to the God, and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog slunk into the hut. The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift his hind leg and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of the temple; but when his rage died down, he realized that the idol could not be the Lord of the Universe. God must be elsewhere, he concluded. As strange as it may seem, the dog urinating on the idol was a sign from God for that young man. This sign contained the divine message that what he was worshipping was false. It liberated him from slavishly following his traditionally learned worship of a false god. As a result, this man was given a choice: either to seek the true God or to continue in the error of his ways.


God mentions Prophet Abraham’s quest for God as an example of how those who follow His signs will be rightly guided:





As was mentioned earlier, prophets have been sent to every nation and tribe to support man’s natural belief in God and man’s in-born inclination to worship Him, as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by God. Although much of these prophets’ teachings became distorted, portions revealing their God-inspired messages have remained untainted and have served to guide mankind in the choice between right and wrong. The influence of God-inspired messages down through the ages can be seen in the Ten Commandments of Judaism’s Torah, which were later adopted into Christianity’s teachings, as well as in the existence of laws against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies throughout the ancient and modern world. As a result of God’s signs to mankind through the ages, combined with His revelation through His prophets, all mankind has been given a chance to recognize the one only true God. Consequently, every soul will be held accountable for its belief in God and its acceptance of the true religion of God, namely Islam, which means total submission to the will of God.


The preceding presentation has demonstrated that the name of the religion of Islam expresses Islam’s most central principle, submission to God, and that the name “Islam” was chosen not by man, but by God, according to the holy scriptures of Islam. It has also been shown that Islam alone teaches the uniqueness of God and His attributes and enjoins the worship of God alone without intermediaries. Finally, due to the divinely instilled inclination of man to worship God and the signs revealed by God throughout the ages to each individual, Islam may be achieved by all men at all times.
In short, the significance of the name Islam (submission to God), Islam’s fundamental acknowledgment of the uniqueness of God, and Islam’s accessibility to all mankind at all times, convincingly support Islam’s claim that, from the beginning of time, in whatever language it was expressed, Islam alone has been, and will be, the true religion of God.


In conclusion, we ask God, the exalted, to keep us on the right path to which He has guided us, and to bestow on us His Blessings and Mercy, for He is indeed the Most Merciful. Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds, and Peace and Blessings be on Prophet Muhammad and on all the prophets of God and their righteous followers.

Thanks to Dr. Bilal Philips for reviewing and approving the material in this post.
I agree almost entirely with the first section of this post

QUOTE=HabibUrrehman;3015871]Each person is born in a circumstance which is not of his own choice. The religion of his family or the ideology of the state is thrust upon him from the very beginning of his existence in this world. By the time he reaches his teens, he is usually fully brain-washed into believing that the beliefs of his particular society are the correct beliefs that everyone should have. However, when some people mature and are exposed to other belief-systems, they begin to question the validity of their own beliefs. The seekers of truth often reach a point of confusion upon realizing that each and every religion, sect, ideology and philosophy claims to be the one and only correct way for man. Indeed, they all encourage people to do good. So, which one is right? They cannot all be right, since each claims all others are wrong.



Having wrote this , your very next word was “ god”
Is it possible that you have been indoctrinated into believing that there is a god , you obviously recognise this happens .
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-21-2019, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
I agree almost entirely with the first section of this post

QUOTE=HabibUrrehman;3015871]Each person is born in a circumstance which is not of his own choice. The religion of his family or the ideology of the state is thrust upon him from the very beginning of his existence in this world. By the time he reaches his teens, he is usually fully brain-washed into believing that the beliefs of his particular society are the correct beliefs that everyone should have. However, when some people mature and are exposed to other belief-systems, they begin to question the validity of their own beliefs. The seekers of truth often reach a point of confusion upon realizing that each and every religion, sect, ideology and philosophy claims to be the one and only correct way for man. Indeed, they all encourage people to do good. So, which one is right? They cannot all be right, since each claims all others are wrong.



Having wrote this , your very next word was “ god”
Is it possible that you have been indoctrinated into believing that there is a god , you obviously recognise this happens .
Search for God is built into our DNA my friend. The fact that you are asking this question is a proof for this. There are two possibilities, either God exists or God does not exist. By believing God does not exist, you dont loose anything. However if you belive that God does not exist, you will end up loosing everything if God does exist. Why would you even take a chance to loose everything? Remeber you can't prove that God does not exist. Can you?
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chalks75
07-21-2019, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
Search for God is built into our DNA my friend. The fact that you are asking this question is a proof for this. There are two possibilities, either God exists or God does not exist. By believing God does not exist, you dont loose anything. However if you belive that God does not exist, you will end up loosing everything if God does exist. Why would you even take a chance to loose everything? Remeber you can't prove that God does not exist. Can you?

I agree
Either a god exists , or a god does not.

I do not believe a god ( or gods) exist.
It’s an honest position , I honestly don’t believe , I’ve listened to the arguments and considered the “ evidence “
I’m honestly not convinced your stories about god are true , or any other stories of other people’s gods are true.

If there is a god , and he judges me hardly fit my honesty ... there isn’t much I can do.

You are taking the same risk as me ,
You could be believing in the wrong god.
( Pascal’s wager , is an old argument )

My inability to disprove something , is not evidence that it’s true.
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-21-2019, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
I agree
Either a god exists , or a god does not.

I do not believe a god ( or gods) exist.
It’s an honest position , I honestly don’t believe , I’ve listened to the arguments and considered the “ evidence “
I’m honestly not convinced your stories about god are true , or any other stories of other people’s gods are true.

If there is a god , and he judges me hardly fit my honesty ... there isn’t much I can do.

You are taking the same risk as me ,
You could be believing in the wrong god.
( Pascal’s wager , is an old argument )
Well I believe in one God and there are not many religions which believe in absolute one God. Christianity does not teach one God, it teaches Trinity. Judaism does teach about one God, but they rejected Prophet Jesus and Prophet Muhammad PBUH. Torah was also not a universal message, it was meant to be for people of Israel only. So although Jews worship one God but it is a limited, an older and outdated version of Islam. Quran is the latest update, a universal message which is 100% compatible with facts established by modern science.

Since God is a source of all knowledge, His knowledge should be perfect. Science can be a means to prove which Divine message is right and which one is wrong. Compare the scientific facts described in all religious book including Quran and decide by yourself which book meets this criteria. I have done it and only book which met this criteria is Quran. That's why Muslims believe Quran is a living miracle. Just like God gave miracles to prophets before Muhammad PBUH to prove the existence of God, you and I can also witness a miracle in the form of Quran. Read the Quran, watch the videos about miracles of Quran and science. It should be clear why Muslims believe. There is zero probability of Muslims to believe in a wrong God. Alhamdulillah ( Praise and thanks to Allah).
Reply

chalks75
07-21-2019, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
Well I believe in one God and there are not many religions which believe in absolute one God. Christianity does not teach one God, it teaches Trinity. Judaism does teach about one God, but they rejected Prophet Jesus and Prophet Muhammad PBUH. Torah was also not a universal message, it was meant to be for people of Israel only. So although Jews worship one God but it is a limited, an older and outdated version of Islam. Quran is the latest update, a universal message which is 100% compatible with facts established by modern science.

Since God is a source of all knowledge, His knowledge should be perfect. Science can be a means to prove which Divine message is right and which one is wrong. Compare the scientific facts described in all religious book including Quran and decide by yourself which book meets this criteria. I have done it and only book which met this criteria is Quran. That's why Muslims believe Quran is a living miracle. Just like God gave miracles to prophets before Muhammad PBUH to prove the existence of God, you and I can also witness a miracle in the form of Quran. Read the Quran, watch the videos about miracles of Quran and science. It should be clear why Muslims believe. There is zero probability of Muslims to believe in a wrong God. Alhamdulillah ( Praise and thanks to Allah).
Yes I understand you have religious beliefs , the history of our species is full of people with religious beliefs.
Which god exists or how many gods exist , changes depending on who you ask and when you ask them.
Why would I believe you over say a Hindu or a Christian ?
As it happens I don’t believe any stories about gods, angels , demons , monsters ... they are just stories , concepts we invented to try and explain the universe and our place in it.

There may be some truth in the Quran , but that does not mean it’s all true .
Does the Quran day we evolved and have a common ancestor with apes ?

“ there is zero probability Muslims believe in the wrong god “
Really , you cannot prove the god exists ,so how can you possibly know it’s the right one ?
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-23-2019, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
Yes I understand you have religious beliefs , the history of our species is full of people with religious beliefs.
Which god exists or how many gods exist , changes depending on who you ask and when you ask them.
Why would I believe you over say a Hindu or a Christian ?
As it happens I don’t believe any stories about gods, angels , demons , monsters ... they are just stories , concepts we invented to try and explain the universe and our place in it.

There may be some truth in the Quran , but that does not mean it’s all true .
Does the Quran day we evolved and have a common ancestor with apes ?

“ there is zero probability Muslims believe in the wrong god “
Really , you cannot prove the god exists ,so how can you possibly know it’s the right one ?
I invite you to read Quran. I have mentioned before that it is a living miracle and is the only source which can prove God. As promised, I completed a thread yesterday showing some of the established scientific facts mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago( link is below), please have a look:

https://www.islamicboard.com/compara...ml#post3016136
Reply

chalks75
07-24-2019, 05:44 AM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
I invite you to read Quran. I have mentioned before that it is a living miracle and is the only source which can prove God. As promised, I completed a thread yesterday showing some of the established scientific facts mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago( link is below), please have a look:

https://www.islamicboard.com/compara...ml#post3016136
This claim is made by Christians as well regarding the bible.

Even if there are claims in the Quran about the world have proven to be true , this does not mean the entire book is true.
It does not show how this knowledge came to be known.

I started going through your link

I got as far as “ made every living thing from water “
( sorry I couldn’t figure out how to copy/paste)

Every living thing is not made from water , but every living thing that we know of requires water to live.

No one knows how life originated , one hypothesis is that life began in water , but that is unproven.

There are other creation tales from around the world that if you were that way inclined , you could claim they had some knowledge.

Aboriginal Australians believe we came from mud , mixture of water and ( clay)chemicals.
This is also a proposed idea as to our origin according to science ( primordial soup).

Christians also go though the bible and select passages and claim that it’s science.

If it takes science to confirm the passages in the Quran , then how could they be described as scientific?
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-24-2019, 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by chalks75
This claim is made by Christians as well regarding the bible.

Even if there are claims in the Quran about the world have proven to be true , this does not mean the entire book is true.
It does not show how this knowledge came to be known.
You can’t say it with out reading both Bible and Quran. Read both of them or even other religions, I guarantee you that Quran will stand out.

How knowledge came to be known? Through Divine revelation and this is preserved both in written form and through memorization. Give me an example of any other book in the history which is memorized by millions even though Arabic has not been their mother language.

The miracles I am talking about are not like biblical miracles. These are known scientific facts and there is no way for a man to know these facts 1400 years ago. It is only possible if the creator of this universe Himself would reveal these facts in the Divine guidance. Please read and if you have questions then we can discuss further. Denying something without testing is not scientific methodology you have been so proud of so far...
Reply

chalks75
07-24-2019, 06:45 AM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
You can’t say it with out reading both Bible and Quran. Read both of them or even other religions, I guarantee you that Quran will stand out.

How knowledge came to be known? Through Divine revelation and this is preserved both in written form and through memorization. Give me an example of any other book in the history which is memorized by millions even though Arabic has not been their mother language.

The miracles I am talking about are not like biblical miracles. These are known scientific facts and there is no way for a man to know these facts 1400 years ago. It is only possible if the creator of this universe Himself would reveal these facts in the Divine guidance. Please read and if you have questions then we can discuss further. Denying something without testing is not scientific methodology you have been so proud of so far...
I don’t need to read the Quran to say that.

It does not matter what book or scientific paper it is ,
If one part is true , that does not mean it’s all true.
For example , if I provide a quote from Charles Darwin’s origin of species , that is true and you agree it’s true .... does that mean the entire book is true ?

I’m not going to have time to read the Quran , not in any meaningful way, I have read the bible a couple of times,

I will tell you how Christians do it.

When science discovers something ... say the Big Bang theory or the germ theory of disease
They go to the bible and look for passages that if you use some imagination and interpret in a certain way , you can say “ this means that “

Can you give me something from the Quran that science has yet to discover ?

Could you give me something from the Quran that you say is scientific .

Not just the quote , but the passage before and after ?

( the reason I ask for the passage before and after , is that in some cases people will provide a passage and say “ this means that “
But, if you read the entire thing in context , it’s clear the book is talking about something entirely different “
It’s called quote mining , and it’s a very dishonest practice , used by conmen and hucksters
( I’m not saying you are one, or this is the case)
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-24-2019, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
I don’t need to read the Quran to say that.

It does not matter what book or scientific paper it is ,
If one part is true , that does not mean it’s all true.
For example , if I provide a quote from Charles Darwin’s origin of species , that is true and you agree it’s true .... does that mean the entire book is true ?

I’m not going to have time to read the Quran , not in any meaningful way, I have read the bible a couple of times,

I will tell you how Christians do it.

When science discovers something ... say the Big Bang theory or the germ theory of disease
They go to the bible and look for passages that if you use some imagination and interpret in a certain way , you can say “ this means that “

Can you give me something from the Quran that science has yet to discover ?

Could you give me something from the Quran that you say is scientific .

Not just the quote , but the passage before and after ?

( the reason I ask for the passage before and after , is that in some cases people will provide a passage and say “ this means that “
But, if you read the entire thing in context , it’s clear the book is talking about something entirely different “
It’s called quote mining , and it’s a very dishonest practice , used by conmen and hucksters
( I’m not saying you are one, or this is the case)
BIBLE VS QURAN (BOTH CLAIM TO HAVE SCIENTIFIC MIRACLE BUT WHO IS RIGHT)?

Quran does not contradict when any ESTABLISHED scientific fact while Bible contradicts with many ESTABLISHED scientific facts. Don’t take the word of a Muslim on this but rather look into why many well educated Christians like Dr. Keith Moore, Dr. Maurice Bucaille and Prf. Tagatat Tejasen accepted Quran as a living miracle?
For Bible one don’t have to go beyond page 1 to see how much Bible agrees with science and common sense.
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
Anyways I will again advice you to keep an open mind and read Quran by yourself. The thread I mentioned before was just created to show you a glimpse and rest is for you to discover at your own.

CAN I POINT OUT ANY FACTS IN QURAN WHICH ARE YET TO BE DISCOVERED?

First thing I want to state that Quran is not a book of science. It is book of signs for those who are search for truth and book of guidance for those who believe in it.
Second, there are so many facts in Quran which science have not discovered yet but it may be able to discover those in future. Would you believe if I quote any such facts from Quran? You will not, why because you are not a believer. You need an evidence and your evidence could only come through science which may not be able to prove these facts in your life time. I am sure that you will say that Quran is not a book of science and I am reading too much into it to predict things? This is exactly the problem when atheist make such requests. But anyway, I will try to give you enough evidence and hope these help to change your mind.
I initially thought I should just give you a paragraph of such a prediction as you requested but on second thought through this post I should take you on a journey in an attempt to explain the creation of universe through Quran just see how perfectly Quran agrees with ESTABLISHED scientific facts on the creation of earth. I will also discuss how the universe will end based on Quranic description, this is something science is yet to establish but there are several hypothesis and we can see if those align with Quranic view about end of universe. I will also go over briefly the age of universe and see if science has yet to confirm what Quran says about the age of the universe. Finally I will discuss what Quran and science says about the possibility of having more than one universe?
In summary I will go over the followings:
1. How Quran agrees with ESTABLISHED scientific facts about the creation of Universe.
2. How Quran describes the universe will end and what science has yet to prove on this subject. Are there any scientific theories about the end of universe and do they align with Quranic description?
3. What is the age of Universe? What does Quran and science say about it?
4. Are there more universes and what does Quran and science say about it?

1.CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:
With the vast amount of information that was collected in the last century through the observation of deep space, as well as the development of the Relativity theory and Quantum Mechanics, scientists are at last in a position to work out how the universe began. Today, speculation and scientific research into cosmology lies outside the realm of religion, to the extent that some scientists today do not consider the creation of the universe to be a divine act at all. However, the same scientists are well aware that when they trace the age of the universe to its origin, or to that moment that sparked the beginning, they too concede that science becomes unable to explain the events of that initial moment, for at that initial moment all the laws of physics seem to break down.
The failure of some scientists to contribute this initial moment of creation to a divine creator stems from the fact that they regard this initial moment as the moment when all the laws of physics break down, rather than being the moment when all the laws of physics came to be, or in other words, when all the laws of physics were set. The question which they do not seem to tackle is: by whom?
The creation of the universe is a subject that is given great attention in the Quran. The huge and varied amount of information contained in the Quran about almost every stage and aspect of the creation continues to astound scientists today because of its very accurate agreement with current knowledge. How can a book written in the 7th century contain such a rich amount of scientific information that was to be attained 14 centuries later? For those reasons, neutral and unbiased observers do consider this to be valid evidence that such a book could never have been the product of any human being.
All the evidence available today suggests an explosive origin to the universe, one that brought space, time and matter into existence. This is what is referred to as the Big Bang. The theory of the Big Bang which has successfully replaced the Steady State theory was worked out in the 1920's by two scientists quite independently of each other. They were the Russian meteorologist Alexksandr Friedmann and the Belgian mathematician Georges Lemaitre.
The Big Bang itself resulted from an extremely dense singularity. The creation of the universe is one of matter, space and time that are intimately linked together. Matter and space were joined as one and then were separated in the explosion. This is very accurately described in the Quran:
Have the disbelievers not seen that the skies (space) and the earth (matter) were a joined entity, then We ripped them apart? (Quran 21:30)
The subsequent history of the Big Bang saw the Americans George Gamow, Ralph Alpher and Robert Horman indicate that the whole event took place at a very high temperature; it was a hot Big Bang. This view has been confirmed by the later discovery of the background microwave radiation. The eventual formation of galaxies resulted as a condensation, under gravitational pull, of hot gases which were mainly hydrogen, but may have also contained helium and a few other light elements. With the passing of time, and with the formation of galaxies, the gas gradually condensed into individual stars. The universe in its very early stages was, thus, still in the form of hot gases. This is confirmed in the Quran in the following verse:
Then He took hold of the sky while it was smoke. (Quran 41:11)
Note that the verse did not say clouds or gas, but smoke, which is a very accurate description as smoke is hot gas, whilst clouds and gas could be hot or cold.
Once stars were formed, a system had to be devised to govern their motion. The kinetic energy stored in the forward movement of these bodies could not be relied upon on its own, otherwise stars and also planets would have shot off in straight lines dispersing into space. No planet would ever revolve around its mother star, which also applies to earth and thus, life would not have evolved on earth, because life on earth is so dependent on the heat, light and energy derived from the sun.
Gravity, a brilliant divine force, works as an equating factor to the centrifugal force to induce precise orbits for all heavenly bodies. The speed, mass and distance of two bodies have to be worked out very precisely to induce an orbit.
If you were to throw a tennis ball upwards towards the sky, it would travel upwards as a result of the kinetic energy stored in the throw but, eventually, the gravity of the earth will take over and the ball will fall back to the ground. But, if you were to throw the ball at a very high speed (say 10km per second) it would escape the gravity of the earth and leave the earth altogether. This is what is known as the escape velocity. It is the speed required for a moving body to enable it to escape the gravity of a heavenly body such as a planet or a star.
When an artificial satellite is placed into orbit around the earth, what happens is that at a required distance, while the satellite is shooting out of the earth's gravitational field, its speed is reduced which reduces its kinetic energy and with some directional adjustments its kinetic energy can be equated with the earth's gravity. All these adjustments must be very precisely calculated and executed for an orbit to be obtained.
When one looks at the endless orbits of moons (around their planets), of planets (around their stars), of stars (around the center of their galaxies), we can only gasp in awe at the intelligent force who designed all these orbits.
These very accurate balances are mentioned in the following verses:
The sun and the moon, running with utmost precision. (Quran 55:5)
The following verse speaks of the balance which must be calculated to obtain the orbits:
And the heaven, He raised it and set the balance. (Quran 55:7)
The orbits of the heavenly bodies are mentioned in the verse:
The sun and the moon; each swimming in an orbit. (Quran 21:33)
The next stage sees these massive newly formed stars start to shrink under their own gravitational pull. As a result, their central regions become denser and thus, hotter. When the material in the center of the star has heated up sufficiently, to be exact, at least seven million degrees K, nuclear reactions begin. These reactions, which are similar to those which take place in a hydrogen bomb, continue throughout the life of the star. These reactions are distinctly different from ordinary combustion of burning wood. What actually takes place inside a star is that hydrogen is converted to helium with the emission of huge energy.
The following verse speaks about brilliant stars and their fuel:
Its oil (fuel) almost lights up even though no fire has touched it. (Quran 24:35)
The verse mentions a star, it's fuel and a reaction which is not combustion (fire). Short of saying 'nuclear reactions' the verse is a very accurate description of what goes on inside a star.
These nuclear reactions cause the stars to radiate all types of radiation into space, from x-rays and gamma rays in the short waves all the way to the longer radio waves. The visible section of those waves which are found between the ultra-violet and the infra-red is what we call sunlight.
On the other hand, the planets do not emit any light of their own, but only reflect light. The differentiation between bodies that emit light of its own, like a lamp, and those that merely reflect light is made in the following verse:
Blessed is the One who placed constellations in the sky and placed in it a lamp (sun), and an illuminating moon. (Quran 25:61)
And also:
He is the One who rendered the sun to emit light and the moon a light. (Quran 10:5)
In 1965, a very important discovery was made, and that was the background radiation which confirmed the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang theory, together with the detection of the red shift in the spectrum of faraway galaxies, gave birth to yet the new concept of the expanding universe.
Further confirmation of the theory of the expanding universe was obtained from the spectrum analysis of faraway galaxies. When you hear a police car or ambulance approaching you and then moving away, you will notice a change in the pitch of its siren. As the vehicle approaches, the siren wails at a higher pitch than when it moves away. Yet, in reality the siren is wailing at the same pitch all the time. To the driver of the vehicle the sound of the siren never changes. Why does this happen? The reason is that the waves of sound emitted by the siren change in frequency, which causes a change in pitch. This principle, which is called the Doppler Effect after its discoverer, applies to any waves and not only that of sound. When applied to light waves it was found that if the source of light is approaching its light would be shifted towards the blue end of the spectrum, while as light from a receding source would be shifted towards the red end of the spectrum. When analyzing the light we receive from distant galaxies it was found that they all had a red shift meaning that they were flying away from us. This contribution of the red shift analysis meant that the universe is indeed expanding.
This conclusion is mentioned in the Quran:
And the universe, We have constructed with might, and We are expanding it. ( Quran 51:47)
Note that the word "expanding" is used in the present tense and not in the past which again is in agreement with the fact that the expansion of the universe is a continuous process.

2.END OF UNIVERSE
When the Quran was revealed in the 7th century, it was still believed that all the stars in the sky, including our sun, were eternal and are made of a material that never fades or decays. No one was aware of the nature of the reactions that took place inside stars, for that was to be 20th century atomic theory territory. This information as shown was mentioned in the Quran.

Atomic reactions take place inside a star for a finite time, eventually running out of energy. When that stage is reached, a star like our sun will undergo a series of drastic changes. First, it will expand to become a red giant. The nearest planet, Mercury, would be swallowed up and the intense heat given off by the sun in this red giant stage would cause all the seas and oceans on earth to boil over and evaporate, signaling the end of life on earth. Eventually, the star would start to collapse and lose its luster; it is then extinguished and ends up as a white dwarf. This stage of a star's life is described in the Quran with the words:
When the stars are extinguished. (Quran 77:8)
The finite life of stars is also referred to:
He subjected the sun and the moon, each to run for a specified term. (Quran 13:2)
Sura, 81 in its opening verses, describes the end of time as follows:
When the sun is rolled (swelling like a ball), and when the stars collapse. (Quran 81:1-2)
When the seas are set aflame. (Quran 81:6)
Are there any complete paragraphs which little more description about end of universe?
1. I swear by the Day of Resurrection. 2. And I swear by the blaming soul. 3. Does man think that We will not reassemble his bones? 4. Yes indeed; We are Able to reconstruct his fingertips. 5. But man wants to deny what is ahead of him. 6. He asks, “When is the Day of Resurrection?” 7. When vision is dazzled. 8. And the moon is eclipsed. 9. And the sun and the moon are joined together. (Quran 75: 1-8)
Notice in verse 4 above Quran mentioned fingertips because every human being has unique finger prints and this was not known to us until last century.

1. By those unleashed in succession. 2. Storming turbulently. 3. Scattering far and wide. 4. Separating decisively. 5. Delivering a message. 6. Excusing or warning. 7. Surely what you are promised will happen. 8. When the stars are obliterated. 9. And the sky is fractured. 10. And the mountains are blown away. 11. And the messengers are alerted. 12. Until which day is it deferred? 13. Until the Day of Decision. (Quran 77: 1-13)
1. When the sun is rolled up. 2. When the stars are dimmed. 3. When the mountains are set in motion. 4. When the relationships are suspended. 5. When the beasts are gathered. 6. When the oceans are set aflame. 7. When the souls are paired. 8. When the girl, buried alive, is asked: 9. For what crime was she killed? 10. When the records are made public. 11. When the sky is peeled away. 12. When the Fire is set ablaze. 13. When Paradise is brought near. 14. Each soul will know what it has readied. (Quran 81: 1-14)
As you see Quran provides very clear description of how the universe will end. I am sure we will not be here to verify this but we can see what prediction scientists have made and compare those to Quranic description to see if they align? Some link below on what scientists think about how universe will end:

https://www.livescience.com/65299-ho...verse-end.html
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...e-universe-end


3. THE AGE OF THE UNIVERSE

Whilst the Big Bang provided an explanation as to the origin of the universe, it still remained necessary to calculate its age. To do so, astronomers once again rely on red shift to calculate the speeds and distances of the furthest galaxies and quasars. These distances provide good indications to the age of the universe. The most distant quasars, which have velocities of some 240,000 km/sec (80% the speed of light), are at distances of up to 14 billion light years from earth. When we look into the depth of space, we are actually looking back far into the past. When we are looking at such a distant quasar, we are not seeing it as it is now, but as it was 14 billion years ago.
The calculation of the age of the universe during the last 70 years or so has fluctuated between 10 and 20 billion years.
It is interesting to know that the age of the universe has been mentioned in the Quran. This information is found in the combined significance of the following two verses:
1- The angels and the Ruh ascend to Him in a day the measure of which was fifty thousand years. (Quran 70:4)
2- A day with your Lord is like a thousand years of your count. (Quran 22:47)
This first verse refers to the ascent of angels back to heaven after settling all matters of life in the universe.
The verse clearly said a day that "was" and not a day that "is", which clearly indicates that that day was in the past (50,000 years ago).
With a few simple equations:
If 1 day (for God) = 1000 years (for man)
1 year (for God) = 1000 x 365 (for man)
= 365,000 years
Therefore, 50,000 years (for God) = 365,000 x 50,000 (for man)
= 18.25 billion!
The 50,000 years mentioned in point 1 above are of God's years and not of man's. This is because man was not mentioned at all in that verse, and more importantly because the subject of the verse (creation of the universe) is obviously a matter executed by God and not by man and so, its description is related to God and not to man.
This becomes evident when we compare this verse to other verses that clearly speak of years as related to man's count, such as:
A day the measure of which is one thousand years of your count. (Quran 32:5)

As we can see, the age of the universe given in the Quran (18.25 billion years) is older than the age agreed upon by scientists today which is 13.8 billion years.
However, when we look into the methods by which scientists arrived at the age of 13.8 billion years, we can understand why this age is no more than an estimated age. The 13.8 estimation could well be an under estimation for two reasons:
First:
The quasar that is estimated to be 14 billion light years away, and whose light took 14 billion years to reach us does not necessarily mean that the universe is 14 billion years old for the following reason:
The light that reaches us from that quasar tells us that the quasar has been a quasar for at least 14 billion years. However, it does not tell us the length of time from the Big Bang up to the formation of that quasar! There must have been a period of time after the Big Bang when that quasar did not exist. How long was that period of time? To accurately calculate the age of the universe, this period of time must be added to the 14 billion years, which would mean that the universe is older than 14 billion years.
Second:

Astronomers estimate the age of the universe in two ways:
1- By looking for the oldest and farthest stars, galaxies and quasars.
2- By measuring the rate of expansion of the universe and extrapolating back to the Big Bang.
Both of these methods are based on available observations and are constantly revised with better apparatus and new discoveries.
1- The oldest stars: This method is based on the already detected stars in the observable universe. We can only detect what our instruments allow us to observe and detect. The observable universe has been consistently getting bigger with the advance in technology and instrumentation. There is no reason to think that this trend will stop in the future. A bigger universe, with farther stars and galaxies means an older universe.
2- The rate of expansion: Even though the rate of expansion of the universe is accelerating, it is dependent on what is called the Hubble constant, whose estimation has been increased a number of times. The Hubble constant is dependent on how much matter is in the universe, as well as the amount of dark energy in the universe. Both of these values are estimations at best.

4.Multiple Universes

When we examine the verses in the Quran that relate to this subject, not only do we find incredible information concerning the creation and existence of multiple universes, but also regarding the barriers that lie between them.
Multiple universes are mentioned in more than one verse in the Quran such as:
Did you not see how God created seven universes in layers? (Quran 71:15)
The barriers that exist between these universes are mentioned in the following verse:
If you are able to penetrate through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without authorization. (Quran 55:33)
The word "penetrate" implies the existence of barriers between the zones of the skies (universes).
Our universe, as we know it today, includes within it all the stars and galaxies that we have detected in the sky so far. If multiple universes exist, they lie outside and beyond all these galaxies. This too seems to be in harmony with the information given in the Quran:
We adorned the lowest universe with lamps (stars). (Quran 41:12)
As we see Quran mentioned that there are 7 universe, the one we can see is the lowest of those universes. Quran also mentioned that we will not be able to penetrate from one universe to another without authorization. What has been the understanding of the size of universe in the past? What does science say about the size of universe and about number of universes mentioned in Quran?
When astronomers discuss the universe, they are always talking about the observable universe. If we go back to the days of the ancient Egyptians five thousand years ago, we find that their understanding of size of the universe was no more than the dome of the sky, covering the earth like the dome in a planetarium. The stars seemed, at the most, some thousands of kilometres away. The Greek astronomers, some two thousand or more years ago, thought of the universe as a sphere but still approximately of the same size.
Copernicus, who believed the sun and not the earth to be the center of the spherical universe, thought it was much bigger than this, but not until about 170 years ago did anyone really know the distance of even the nearest stars.
Then they found that the distance to stars should be measured in millions of millions of kilometers. Even so, it was still a very small universe, with all the stars being together in one large star island.
It was not until the 1920's that astronomers discovered that our galaxy was only one of millions of others. Only then did astronomers start to appreciate the actual size of the universe.
Astronomers are today debating the issue of whether our universe is the only one in existence.
The idea of multiple universes is closely linked with the Black Hole concept. Certainly, the squashing of matter into an infinitely small area inside a Black Hole is in sharp disagreement with the Law of conservation of matter. It has been suggested that all matter falling into a Black Hole could be ejected into another time-space universe in what is referred to as a White Hole. Mathematical studies of space and time do show that this is possible in theory; but does it happen in practice? We do not know, but there certainly seems to be regions in deep space from where material is pouring out into our universe in what looks like a White Hole.
The jet of material from the active elliptical galaxy M 87 is a case in point. Has it come from a White Hole connected to a Black Hole in some other universe?
An alternate analysis that could also provide an equally valid justification for the existence of multiple universes is associated with the speed of light.
Between the years 1905-15, in his Theory of Relativity, Albert Einstein stated that the speed of light is a limiting velocity in the universe; nothing can travel faster than light. His theory also outlined that the speed of light is constant, unaffected by the movement of its source and independent of all observers. Quasars, which are the most distant objects in the universe travel at speeds approaching 80% of the speed of light but nothing travels faster than the speed of light.
Could it be that the speed of light acts as a gate, a valve or a barrier between our universe and other universes? Perhaps a different time-space universe where matter, if it can still be called so, exists and is travelling at speeds faster than that of light? We cannot cross that barrier ourselves nor can any physical matter, but there are strong indications that there is some kind of existence on the other side.
A mention should be given here to some speculation concerning particles called tachyons which occur in some nuclear reactions. These particles are believed to travel faster than light. They can never travel at the speed of light, only faster. In short, tachyons behave in just the opposite way from matter, but as no one has actually observed a tachyon, could the reason be because they exist in a different dimension of time-space?
Anyways scientists have not yet proven that there are multiple universes but they have many reasons as mentioned above to believe in it. See some links below:
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160...esides-our-own
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...llel-universes

So there you have it. Some evidence that how Quran agrees with the facts established through modern science and also predicts what may be established through science in future. If you have read Bible twice which falsely claims the universe came into being in 6 days then you should probably read Quran at least 100 times. I am telling you that the answer to all of your questions is in Quran that is why it is a living miracle.
Reply

chalks75
07-24-2019, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
BIBLE VS QURAN (BOTH CLAIM TO HAVE SCIENTIFIC MIRACLE BUT WHO IS RIGHT)?

Quran does not contradict when any ESTABLISHED scientific fact while Bible contradicts with many ESTABLISHED scientific facts. Don’t take the word of a Muslim on this but rather look into why many well educated Christians like Dr. Keith Moore, Dr. Maurice Bucaille and Prf. Tagatat Tejasen accepted Quran as a living miracle?
For Bible one don’t have to go beyond page 1 to see how much Bible agrees with science and common sense.
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
Anyways I will again advice you to keep an open mind and read Quran by yourself. The thread I mentioned before was just created to show you a glimpse and rest is for you to discover at your own.

CAN I POINT OUT ANY FACTS IN QURAN WHICH ARE YET TO BE DISCOVERED?

First thing I want to state that Quran is not a book of science. It is book of signs for those who are search for truth and book of guidance for those who believe in it.
Second, there are so many facts in Quran which science have not discovered yet but it may be able to discover those in future. Would you believe if I quote any such facts from Quran? You will not, why because you are not a believer. You need an evidence and your evidence could only come through science which may not be able to prove these facts in your life time. I am sure that you will say that Quran is not a book of science and I am reading too much into it to predict things? This is exactly the problem when atheist make such requests. But anyway, I will try to give you enough evidence and hope these help to change your mind.
I initially thought I should just give you a paragraph of such a prediction as you requested but on second thought through this post I should take you on a journey in an attempt to explain the creation of universe through Quran just see how perfectly Quran agrees with ESTABLISHED scientific facts on the creation of earth. I will also discuss how the universe will end based on Quranic description, this is something science is yet to establish but there are several hypothesis and we can see if those align with Quranic view about end of universe. I will also go over briefly the age of universe and see if science has yet to confirm what Quran says about the age of the universe. Finally I will discuss what Quran and science says about the possibility of having more than one universe?
In summary I will go over the followings:
1. How Quran agrees with ESTABLISHED scientific facts about the creation of Universe.
2. How Quran describes the universe will end and what science has yet to prove on this subject. Are there any scientific theories about the end of universe and do they align with Quranic description?
3. What is the age of Universe? What does Quran and science say about it?
4. Are there more universes and what does Quran and science say about it?

1.CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:
With the vast amount of information that was collected in the last century through the observation of deep space, as well as the development of the Relativity theory and Quantum Mechanics, scientists are at last in a position to work out how the universe began. Today, speculation and scientific research into cosmology lies outside the realm of religion, to the extent that some scientists today do not consider the creation of the universe to be a divine act at all. However, the same scientists are well aware that when they trace the age of the universe to its origin, or to that moment that sparked the beginning, they too concede that science becomes unable to explain the events of that initial moment, for at that initial moment all the laws of physics seem to break down.
The failure of some scientists to contribute this initial moment of creation to a divine creator stems from the fact that they regard this initial moment as the moment when all the laws of physics break down, rather than being the moment when all the laws of physics came to be, or in other words, when all the laws of physics were set. The question which they do not seem to tackle is: by whom?
The creation of the universe is a subject that is given great attention in the Quran. The huge and varied amount of information contained in the Quran about almost every stage and aspect of the creation continues to astound scientists today because of its very accurate agreement with current knowledge. How can a book written in the 7th century contain such a rich amount of scientific information that was to be attained 14 centuries later? For those reasons, neutral and unbiased observers do consider this to be valid evidence that such a book could never have been the product of any human being.
All the evidence available today suggests an explosive origin to the universe, one that brought space, time and matter into existence. This is what is referred to as the Big Bang. The theory of the Big Bang which has successfully replaced the Steady State theory was worked out in the 1920's by two scientists quite independently of each other. They were the Russian meteorologist Alexksandr Friedmann and the Belgian mathematician Georges Lemaitre.
The Big Bang itself resulted from an extremely dense singularity. The creation of the universe is one of matter, space and time that are intimately linked together. Matter and space were joined as one and then were separated in the explosion. This is very accurately described in the Quran:

The subsequent history of the Big Bang saw the Americans George Gamow, Ralph Alpher and Robert Horman indicate that the whole event took place at a very high temperature; it was a hot Big Bang. This view has been confirmed by the later discovery of the background microwave radiation. The eventual formation of galaxies resulted as a condensation, under gravitational pull, of hot gases which were mainly hydrogen, but may have also contained helium and a few other light elements. With the passing of time, and with the formation of galaxies, the gas gradually condensed into individual stars. The universe in its very early stages was, thus, still in the form of hot gases. This is confirmed in the Quran in the following verse:

Note that the verse did not say clouds or gas, but smoke, which is a very accurate description as smoke is hot gas, whilst clouds and gas could be hot or cold.
Once stars were formed, a system had to be devised to govern their motion. The kinetic energy stored in the forward movement of these bodies could not be relied upon on its own, otherwise stars and also planets would have shot off in straight lines dispersing into space. No planet would ever revolve around its mother star, which also applies to earth and thus, life would not have evolved on earth, because life on earth is so dependent on the heat, light and energy derived from the sun.
Gravity, a brilliant divine force, works as an equating factor to the centrifugal force to induce precise orbits for all heavenly bodies. The speed, mass and distance of two bodies have to be worked out very precisely to induce an orbit.
If you were to throw a tennis ball upwards towards the sky, it would travel upwards as a result of the kinetic energy stored in the throw but, eventually, the gravity of the earth will take over and the ball will fall back to the ground. But, if you were to throw the ball at a very high speed (say 10km per second) it would escape the gravity of the earth and leave the earth altogether. This is what is known as the escape velocity. It is the speed required for a moving body to enable it to escape the gravity of a heavenly body such as a planet or a star.
When an artificial satellite is placed into orbit around the earth, what happens is that at a required distance, while the satellite is shooting out of the earth's gravitational field, its speed is reduced which reduces its kinetic energy and with some directional adjustments its kinetic energy can be equated with the earth's gravity. All these adjustments must be very precisely calculated and executed for an orbit to be obtained.
When one looks at the endless orbits of moons (around their planets), of planets (around their stars), of stars (around the center of their galaxies), we can only gasp in awe at the intelligent force who designed all these orbits.
These very accurate balances are mentioned in the following verses:

The following verse speaks of the balance which must be calculated to obtain the orbits:

The orbits of the heavenly bodies are mentioned in the verse:

The next stage sees these massive newly formed stars start to shrink under their own gravitational pull. As a result, their central regions become denser and thus, hotter. When the material in the center of the star has heated up sufficiently, to be exact, at least seven million degrees K, nuclear reactions begin. These reactions, which are similar to those which take place in a hydrogen bomb, continue throughout the life of the star. These reactions are distinctly different from ordinary combustion of burning wood. What actually takes place inside a star is that hydrogen is converted to helium with the emission of huge energy.
The following verse speaks about brilliant stars and their fuel:

The verse mentions a star, it's fuel and a reaction which is not combustion (fire). Short of saying 'nuclear reactions' the verse is a very accurate description of what goes on inside a star.
These nuclear reactions cause the stars to radiate all types of radiation into space, from x-rays and gamma rays in the short waves all the way to the longer radio waves. The visible section of those waves which are found between the ultra-violet and the infra-red is what we call sunlight.
On the other hand, the planets do not emit any light of their own, but only reflect light. The differentiation between bodies that emit light of its own, like a lamp, and those that merely reflect light is made in the following verse:

And also:

In 1965, a very important discovery was made, and that was the background radiation which confirmed the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang theory, together with the detection of the red shift in the spectrum of faraway galaxies, gave birth to yet the new concept of the expanding universe.
Further confirmation of the theory of the expanding universe was obtained from the spectrum analysis of faraway galaxies. When you hear a police car or ambulance approaching you and then moving away, you will notice a change in the pitch of its siren. As the vehicle approaches, the siren wails at a higher pitch than when it moves away. Yet, in reality the siren is wailing at the same pitch all the time. To the driver of the vehicle the sound of the siren never changes. Why does this happen? The reason is that the waves of sound emitted by the siren change in frequency, which causes a change in pitch. This principle, which is called the Doppler Effect after its discoverer, applies to any waves and not only that of sound. When applied to light waves it was found that if the source of light is approaching its light would be shifted towards the blue end of the spectrum, while as light from a receding source would be shifted towards the red end of the spectrum. When analyzing the light we receive from distant galaxies it was found that they all had a red shift meaning that they were flying away from us. This contribution of the red shift analysis meant that the universe is indeed expanding.
This conclusion is mentioned in the Quran:

Note that the word "expanding" is used in the present tense and not in the past which again is in agreement with the fact that the expansion of the universe is a continuous process.

2.END OF UNIVERSE
When the Quran was revealed in the 7th century, it was still believed that all the stars in the sky, including our sun, were eternal and are made of a material that never fades or decays. No one was aware of the nature of the reactions that took place inside stars, for that was to be 20th century atomic theory territory. This information as shown was mentioned in the Quran.

Atomic reactions take place inside a star for a finite time, eventually running out of energy. When that stage is reached, a star like our sun will undergo a series of drastic changes. First, it will expand to become a red giant. The nearest planet, Mercury, would be swallowed up and the intense heat given off by the sun in this red giant stage would cause all the seas and oceans on earth to boil over and evaporate, signaling the end of life on earth. Eventually, the star would start to collapse and lose its luster; it is then extinguished and ends up as a white dwarf. This stage of a star's life is described in the Quran with the words:

The finite life of stars is also referred to:

Sura, 81 in its opening verses, describes the end of time as follows:


Are there any complete paragraphs which little more description about end of universe?


Notice in verse 4 above Quran mentioned fingertips because every human being has unique finger prints and this was not known to us until last century.





As you see Quran provides very clear description of how the universe will end. I am sure we will not be here to verify this but we can see what prediction scientists have made and compare those to Quranic description to see if they align? Some link below on what scientists think about how universe will end:

https://www.livescience.com/65299-ho...verse-end.html
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...e-universe-end


3. THE AGE OF THE UNIVERSE

Whilst the Big Bang provided an explanation as to the origin of the universe, it still remained necessary to calculate its age. To do so, astronomers once again rely on red shift to calculate the speeds and distances of the furthest galaxies and quasars. These distances provide good indications to the age of the universe. The most distant quasars, which have velocities of some 240,000 km/sec (80% the speed of light), are at distances of up to 14 billion light years from earth. When we look into the depth of space, we are actually looking back far into the past. When we are looking at such a distant quasar, we are not seeing it as it is now, but as it was 14 billion years ago.
The calculation of the age of the universe during the last 70 years or so has fluctuated between 10 and 20 billion years.
It is interesting to know that the age of the universe has been mentioned in the Quran. This information is found in the combined significance of the following two verses:

This first verse refers to the ascent of angels back to heaven after settling all matters of life in the universe.
The verse clearly said a day that "was" and not a day that "is", which clearly indicates that that day was in the past (50,000 years ago).
With a few simple equations:
If 1 day (for God) = 1000 years (for man)
1 year (for God) = 1000 x 365 (for man)
= 365,000 years
Therefore, 50,000 years (for God) = 365,000 x 50,000 (for man)
= 18.25 billion!
The 50,000 years mentioned in point 1 above are of God's years and not of man's. This is because man was not mentioned at all in that verse, and more importantly because the subject of the verse (creation of the universe) is obviously a matter executed by God and not by man and so, its description is related to God and not to man.
This becomes evident when we compare this verse to other verses that clearly speak of years as related to man's count, such as:
A day the measure of which is one thousand years of your count. (Quran 32:5)

As we can see, the age of the universe given in the Quran (18.25 billion years) is older than the age agreed upon by scientists today which is 13.8 billion years.
However, when we look into the methods by which scientists arrived at the age of 13.8 billion years, we can understand why this age is no more than an estimated age. The 13.8 estimation could well be an under estimation for two reasons:
First:
The quasar that is estimated to be 14 billion light years away, and whose light took 14 billion years to reach us does not necessarily mean that the universe is 14 billion years old for the following reason:
The light that reaches us from that quasar tells us that the quasar has been a quasar for at least 14 billion years. However, it does not tell us the length of time from the Big Bang up to the formation of that quasar! There must have been a period of time after the Big Bang when that quasar did not exist. How long was that period of time? To accurately calculate the age of the universe, this period of time must be added to the 14 billion years, which would mean that the universe is older than 14 billion years.
Second:

Astronomers estimate the age of the universe in two ways:
1- By looking for the oldest and farthest stars, galaxies and quasars.
2- By measuring the rate of expansion of the universe and extrapolating back to the Big Bang.
Both of these methods are based on available observations and are constantly revised with better apparatus and new discoveries.
1- The oldest stars: This method is based on the already detected stars in the observable universe. We can only detect what our instruments allow us to observe and detect. The observable universe has been consistently getting bigger with the advance in technology and instrumentation. There is no reason to think that this trend will stop in the future. A bigger universe, with farther stars and galaxies means an older universe.
2- The rate of expansion: Even though the rate of expansion of the universe is accelerating, it is dependent on what is called the Hubble constant, whose estimation has been increased a number of times. The Hubble constant is dependent on how much matter is in the universe, as well as the amount of dark energy in the universe. Both of these values are estimations at best.

4.Multiple Universes

When we examine the verses in the Quran that relate to this subject, not only do we find incredible information concerning the creation and existence of multiple universes, but also regarding the barriers that lie between them.
Multiple universes are mentioned in more than one verse in the Quran such as:

The barriers that exist between these universes are mentioned in the following verse:

The word "penetrate" implies the existence of barriers between the zones of the skies (universes).
Our universe, as we know it today, includes within it all the stars and galaxies that we have detected in the sky so far. If multiple universes exist, they lie outside and beyond all these galaxies. This too seems to be in harmony with the information given in the Quran:


As we see Quran mentioned that there are 7 universe, the one we can see is the lowest of those universes. Quran also mentioned that we will not be able to penetrate from one universe to another without authorization. What has been the understanding of the size of universe in the past? What does science say about the size of universe and about number of universes mentioned in Quran?
When astronomers discuss the universe, they are always talking about the observable universe. If we go back to the days of the ancient Egyptians five thousand years ago, we find that their understanding of size of the universe was no more than the dome of the sky, covering the earth like the dome in a planetarium. The stars seemed, at the most, some thousands of kilometres away. The Greek astronomers, some two thousand or more years ago, thought of the universe as a sphere but still approximately of the same size.
Copernicus, who believed the sun and not the earth to be the center of the spherical universe, thought it was much bigger than this, but not until about 170 years ago did anyone really know the distance of even the nearest stars.
Then they found that the distance to stars should be measured in millions of millions of kilometers. Even so, it was still a very small universe, with all the stars being together in one large star island.
It was not until the 1920's that astronomers discovered that our galaxy was only one of millions of others. Only then did astronomers start to appreciate the actual size of the universe.
Astronomers are today debating the issue of whether our universe is the only one in existence.
The idea of multiple universes is closely linked with the Black Hole concept. Certainly, the squashing of matter into an infinitely small area inside a Black Hole is in sharp disagreement with the Law of conservation of matter. It has been suggested that all matter falling into a Black Hole could be ejected into another time-space universe in what is referred to as a White Hole. Mathematical studies of space and time do show that this is possible in theory; but does it happen in practice? We do not know, but there certainly seems to be regions in deep space from where material is pouring out into our universe in what looks like a White Hole.
The jet of material from the active elliptical galaxy M 87 is a case in point. Has it come from a White Hole connected to a Black Hole in some other universe?
An alternate analysis that could also provide an equally valid justification for the existence of multiple universes is associated with the speed of light.
Between the years 1905-15, in his Theory of Relativity, Albert Einstein stated that the speed of light is a limiting velocity in the universe; nothing can travel faster than light. His theory also outlined that the speed of light is constant, unaffected by the movement of its source and independent of all observers. Quasars, which are the most distant objects in the universe travel at speeds approaching 80% of the speed of light but nothing travels faster than the speed of light.
Could it be that the speed of light acts as a gate, a valve or a barrier between our universe and other universes? Perhaps a different time-space universe where matter, if it can still be called so, exists and is travelling at speeds faster than that of light? We cannot cross that barrier ourselves nor can any physical matter, but there are strong indications that there is some kind of existence on the other side.
A mention should be given here to some speculation concerning particles called tachyons which occur in some nuclear reactions. These particles are believed to travel faster than light. They can never travel at the speed of light, only faster. In short, tachyons behave in just the opposite way from matter, but as no one has actually observed a tachyon, could the reason be because they exist in a different dimension of time-space?
Anyways scientists have not yet proven that there are multiple universes but they have many reasons as mentioned above to believe in it. See some links below:
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160...esides-our-own
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...llel-universes

So there you have it. Some evidence that how Quran agrees with the facts established through modern science and also predicts what may be established through science in future. If you have read Bible twice which falsely claims the universe came into being in 6 days then you should probably read Quran at least 100 times. I am telling you that the answer to all of your questions is in Quran that is why it is a living miracle.

The Big Bang theory does not describe the beginning of the universe , it describes the universe changing from one state to another , it describes how the universe expanded ... no one knows if the universe had a beginning.
So science does not agree with the Quran on this point , and you don’t understand the hg Bang theory
( I can provide quotes from some eminent physicists if you like ),


Smoke is not gas , it is carbon suspended in air .
Reply

chalks75
07-24-2019, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
The Big Bang theory does not describe the beginning of the universe , it describes the universe changing from one state to another , it describes how the universe expanded ... no one knows if the universe had a beginning.
So science does not agree with the Quran on this point , and you don’t understand the hg Bang theory
( I can provide quotes from some eminent physicists if you like ),


Smoke is not gas , it is carbon suspended in air .
Stars are not powered by oil , it’s nuclear fusion

You are doing exactly what Christians do , pick a verse and then try and interpret it to say this means that.

It’s wrong from the very start ... no one knows if the Big Bang is the beginning of the universe .

Stars created in the 4th day , what was providing the light on the first day.

No offence , but you are stretching the limits in incredulity.

Because the word fingertip appears ... you say it’s a reference to our individual fingerprint ... sorry man, not buying it .

If 1 day for god equals 1000 years , the stars did not appear in the universe 4000 years after the Big Bang
( stars created in day 4)
Reply

chalks75
07-24-2019, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
Stars are not powered by oil , it’s nuclear fusion

You are doing exactly what Christians do , pick a verse and then try and interpret it to say this means that.

It’s wrong from the very start ... no one knows if the Big Bang is the beginning of the universe .

Stars created in the 4th day , what was providing the light on the first day.

No offence , but you are stretching the limits in incredulity.

Because the word fingertip appears ... you say it’s a reference to our individual fingerprint ... sorry man, not buying it .

If 1 day for god equals 1000 years , the stars did not appear in the universe 4000 years after the Big Bang
( stars created in day 4)

It’s admirable that you have put so much effort in to giving me this information , when I have some more time I will try to go over it more throughly.

From what I’ve seen so far , you cherry pick a verse , that if you stretch it a little you can maybe make it confirm to some scientific facts ... Christians do the same thing.

Thanks for the info
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-24-2019, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
This claim is made by Christians as well regarding the bible.

Even if there are claims in the Quran about the world have proven to be true , this does not mean the entire book is true.
Bible is in no way and form comparable to Quran. Point out a single scientific fact that contradicts Quran as you have pointed out few in your this post and I will explain that how wrong you are in your understanding of Quran or scientific facts.


It does not show how this knowledge came to be known.
Divine knowledge come from God (Allah). To be convinced go back to my previous point, you can't point out a single ESTABLISHED scientific fact which disagrees with Quran. This should be enough of a proof for someone who has limited knowledge of this world and zero knowledge of the unseen world.

You can also do your own search about how Quran is preserved in written form and through memory. Give an example of a single other book in human history which is preserved the way Quran is.

I started going through your link

I got as far as “ made every living thing from water “
( sorry I couldn’t figure out how to copy/paste)

Every living thing is not made from water , but every living thing that we know of requires water to live.
All living things are made of cells. We now know that cells are mostly made up of water. For example, 80% of the cytoplasm (basic cell material) of a standard animal cell is described as water in biology textbooks. I recommend to read Essential Cell Biology by Bruce Alberts, you can find PDF copy online.

No one knows how life originated , one hypothesis is that life began in water , but that is unproven.

There are other creation tales from around the world that if you were that way inclined , you could claim they had some knowledge.

Aboriginal Australians believe we came from mud , mixture of water and ( clay)chemicals.
This is also a proposed idea as to our origin according to science ( primordial soup).
If you are talking about creation of human being then in the Qur'an, Allah reveals that the first human being (Adam) and all other human beings are made of clay.

Your Lord said to the angels, "I am going to create a human being out of clay. When I have formed him and breathed My Spirit into him, fall down in prostration to him!" (Qur'an, 38:71-72)
Then inquire of them: Is it they who are stronger in structure or other things We have created? We created them from sticky clay. (Qur'an, 37:11)
We created man from an extract of clay. (Qur'an, 23:12)
The Arabic word "sulala," translated as "extract" in the verse, means "representative example, essence."

When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.

https://eesc.columbia.edu/courses/ee...es/lect21.html

Modern science tells us-the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil. Below is a screenshot showing the distribution of the elements in a 70-kilo human being.

Attachment 6740


Christians also go though the bible and select passages and claim that it’s science.

If it takes science to confirm the passages in the Quran , then how could they be described as scientific?
I gave you some examples of few facts in Quran which are still to be proved by science in another post. Would you believe in those claims made by Quran? You will not. Allah knows His creation and He gives us means to verify these things through science. It only helps human beings to strengthen their belief. Now these facts are already in the Quran hundreds of years ago which proves that God's knowledge is perfect and more superior than ours. Science is only a knowledge and source of knowledge is Allah, so there should not be a conflict between science and Divine guidance. I know you will find it easy to point out such conflicts and we will try our best to explain why these conflicts are nothing but your misunderstand as I have explained above for two things you already pointed out.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by chalks75
It’s admirable that you have put so much effort in to giving me this information , when I have some more time I will try to go over it more throughly.

From what I’ve seen so far , you cherry pick a verse , that if you stretch it a little you can maybe make it confirm to some scientific facts ... Christians do the same thing.

Thanks for the info
I appreciate that you acknowledge that. I put myself in your shoes and I know why you are asking these questions. I don't expect you to read few posts and be convinced. It is a long journey and I really think that reading Quran and doing your side search on Quran will benefit us more. You can ask the right questions and we can have more purposeful dialogue.

I am trying my best to help you answer your questions to the best of my knowledge ( Allah knows the best) and believe me it is very sincere effort from my part. I will be dishonest if I cheery pick only to prove my point. By helping you, I am helping my self. My faith only gets stronger as I search more to answer your questions.

Regarding Bible and science, I am working to write another thread which will show how Quran agrees and Bible disagrees with many scientific facts. I hope that will help you appreciate Quran more.
Reply

chalks75
07-24-2019, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
Bible is in no way and form comparable to Quran. Point out a single scientific fact that contradicts Quran as you have pointed out few in your this post and I will explain that how wrong you are in your understanding of Quran or scientific facts.




Divine knowledge come from God (Allah). To be convinced go back to my previous point, you can't point out a single ESTABLISHED scientific fact which disagrees with Quran. This should be enough of a proof for someone who has limited knowledge of this world and zero knowledge of the unseen world.

You can also do your own search about how Quran is preserved in written form and through memory. Give an example of a single other book in human history which is preserved the way Quran is.



All living things are made of cells. We now know that cells are mostly made up of water. For example, 80% of the cytoplasm (basic cell material) of a standard animal cell is described as water in biology textbooks. I recommend to read Essential Cell Biology by Bruce Alberts, you can find PDF copy online.



If you are talking about creation of human being then in the Qur'an, Allah reveals that the first human being (Adam) and all other human beings are made of clay.








When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.

https://eesc.columbia.edu/courses/ee...es/lect21.html

Modern science tells us-the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil. Below is a screenshot showing the distribution of the elements in a 70-kilo human being.

Attachment 6740




I gave you some examples of few facts in Quran which are still to be proved by science in another post. Would you believe in those claims made by Quran? You will not. Allah knows His creation and He gives us means to verify these things through science. It only helps human beings to strengthen their belief. Now these facts are already in the Quran hundreds of years ago which proves that God's knowledge is perfect and more superior than ours. Science is only a knowledge and source of knowledge is Allah, so there should not be a conflict between science and Divine guidance. I know you will find it easy to point out such conflicts and we will try our best to explain why these conflicts are nothing but your misunderstand as I have explained above for two things you already pointed out.

- - - Updated - - -



I appreciate that you acknowledge that. I put myself in your shoes and I know why you are asking these questions. I don't expect you to read few posts and be convinced. It is a long journey and I really think that reading Quran and doing your side search on Quran will benefit us more. You can ask the right questions and we can have more purposeful dialogue.

I am trying my best to help you answer your questions to the best of my knowledge ( Allah knows the best) and believe me it is very sincere effort from my part. I will be dishonest if I cheery pick only to prove my point. By helping you, I am helping my self. My faith only gets stronger as I search more to answer your questions.

Regarding Bible and science, I am working to write another thread which will show how Quran agrees and Bible disagrees with many scientific facts. I hope that will help you appreciate Quran more.
I can ask one question straight off the bat

Could you be wrong?
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-24-2019, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
The Big Bang theory does not describe the beginning of the universe , it describes the universe changing from one state to another , it describes how the universe expanded ... no one knows if the universe had a beginning.
So science does not agree with the Quran on this point , and you don’t understand the hg Bang theory
( I can provide quotes from some eminent physicists if you like ),


Smoke is not gas , it is carbon suspended in air .
I did not say Big Bang is beginning of the universe. Quran did not say it was the beginning, see the verse I quoted above again.

Have the disbelievers not seen that the skies (space) and the earth (matter) were a joined entity, then We ripped them apart? (Quran 21:30)
I don't know the nitty-gritty details of Big Bang theory, the only point of interest for Muslims is that Big bang theory and Quran both says that at one point in time everything was a jointed entity and Allah ripped them apart. I don't see any conflict with that.

Regarding smoke: The point is not to describe what smoke is and I did not say smoke is gas. What I did say is that the verse did not say clouds or gas, but smoke, which is a very accurate description as smoke is hot gas, whilst clouds and gas could be hot or cold. This is to indicate that universe in its very early stages was in the form of hot gases.

Regarding oil (fuel) mentioned in verse 24:35, if you read my commentary and the translation of the verses you will see that the whole point was to indicate that initial fire was not caused by combustions. It was more like nuclear reactions. As the verse clearly says that no fire has touched it (fuel).




Hope this clarifies your initial comments.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by chalks75
I can ask one question straight off the bat

Could you be wrong?
Yes, I could be. I have been in your shoes. I have questioned my faith. I am a born Muslim but I am proud to say that I have made a choice to accept Islam after doing my home work. I have looked into everything I could and the more I looked, more I got convinced that Islam is the only true religion. Islam actually encourages people to ponder, reflect and discourages blind faith. What I learned from my experience is that this process of questioning and searching had helped me immensely in understand Quran, Islam and its true teaching as well as other religions and belief systems.
Only difference between you and I, is that I did not give up on God. I knew God is there and I kept asking Him to guide me the truth.
Reply

chalks75
07-25-2019, 11:12 AM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
I did not say Big Bang is beginning of the universe. Quran did not say it was the beginning, see the verse I quoted above again.



I don't know the nitty-gritty details of Big Bang theory, the only point of interest for Muslims is that Big bang theory and Quran both says that at one point in time everything was a jointed entity and Allah ripped them apart. I don't see any conflict with that.

Regarding smoke: The point is not to describe what smoke is and I did not say smoke is gas. What I did say is that the verse did not say clouds or gas, but smoke, which is a very accurate description as smoke is hot gas, whilst clouds and gas could be hot or cold. This is to indicate that universe in its very early stages was in the form of hot gases.

Regarding oil (fuel) mentioned in verse 24:35, if you read my commentary and the translation of the verses you will see that the whole point was to indicate that initial fire was not caused by combustions. It was more like nuclear reactions. As the verse clearly says that no fire has touched it (fuel).




Hope this clarifies your initial comments.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, I could be. I have been in your shoes. I have questioned my faith. I am a born Muslim but I am proud to say that I have made a choice to accept Islam after doing my home work. I have looked into everything I could and the more I looked, more I got convinced that Islam is the only true religion. Islam actually encourages people to ponder, reflect and discourages blind faith. What I learned from my experience is that this process of questioning and searching had helped me immensely in understand Quran, Islam and its true teaching as well as other religions and belief systems.
Only difference between you and I, is that I did not give up on God. I knew God is there and I kept asking Him to guide me the truth.
Smoke is not hot gas , it is carbon suspended in air.
I think if your having to replace words “ this means that “
You are doing exactly what Christians do , wait until science discovers something then search your holy book for a passage or phrase that you can use to link the two , if you only interpret it in the right way( this must mean that )


Thank you for your honesty , it takes courage to admit you could be wrong.
There are some who would not even entertain the thought , one person on this forum even said it was “impossible for a Muslim to be wrong “
Dogmatic beliefs are dangerous , your beliefs should be shaped with argument and evidence.

It’s interesting , you say you are “ a born muslim”
Is this true , would it not be more accurate to say you were born to muslim parents , that you had no concept of god , but you were taught or told you were a Muslim ?

Just imagine if you had been born to Christian parents , you would possibly be telling me how the bible is the truth and Jesus is the way, and I would still disagree with you lol[emoji846]
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-25-2019, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
Smoke is not hot gas , it is carbon suspended in air.
I think if your having to replace words “ this means that “
You are doing exactly what Christians do , wait until science discovers something then search your holy book for a passage or phrase that you can use to link the two , if you only interpret it in the right way( this must mean that )


Thank you for your honesty , it takes courage to admit you could be wrong.
There are some who would not even entertain the thought , one person on this forum even said it was “impossible for a Muslim to be wrong “
Dogmatic beliefs are dangerous , your beliefs should be shaped with argument and evidence.

It’s interesting , you say you are “ a born muslim”
Is this true , would it not be more accurate to say you were born to muslim parents , that you had no concept of god , but you were taught or told you were a Muslim ?

Just imagine if you had been born to Christian parents , you would possibly be telling me how the bible is the truth and Jesus is the way, and I would still disagree with you lol[emoji846]
As I indicated in my previous replies that Quran ( I copied the verse I am referring to below) is clear that this smoke is not from combustion so there is no suspended carbon particles. You may translate DUKHAN in several English words such as vapors, fumes, smoke, reek etc.

Its oil (fuel) almost lights up even though no fire has touched it. (Quran 24:35)
If you read my reply to your previous question that is it possible that I can be wrong?

I said yes. I am human being just like you and my knowledge is limited. We all can make mistakes and anyone of us can be wrong.
Yes, I am a born Muslim but it would be silly if I would have believed in Allah only because I am born Muslim. I did question my faith as it is natural to do so. I looked into several other religions and ideologies. What I concluded is that there are two possibilities.
1. Either God does not exist, I can't prove that from the knowledge I have.
2. God does exist and only one who can prove this to me is God himself. So I prayed to God if you exist, guide me to the truth.
Humble yourself and be sincere in your research, Allah will show you the signs and open your heart to the truth. If you expect someone like you and I to prove God exists with 100% conviction, it is not possible.
Reply

chalks75
07-25-2019, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
As I indicated in my previous replies that Quran ( I copied the verse I am referring to below) is clear that this smoke is not from combustion so there is no suspended carbon particles. You may translate DUKHAN in several English words such as vapors, fumes, smoke, reek etc.



If you read my reply to your previous question that is it possible that I can be wrong?

I said yes. I am human being just like you and my knowledge is limited. We all can make mistakes and anyone of us can be wrong.
Yes, I am a born Muslim but it would be silly if I would have believed in Allah only because I am born Muslim. I did question my faith as it is natural to do so. I looked into several other religions and ideologies. What I concluded is that there are two possibilities.
1. Either God does not exist, I can't prove that from the knowledge I have.
2. God does exist and only one who can prove this to me is God himself. So I prayed to God if you exist, guide me to the truth.
Humble yourself and be sincere in your research, Allah will show you the signs and open your heart to the truth. If you expect someone like you and I to prove God exists with 100% conviction, it is not possible.
I agree with you either a god or gods exist or they don’t .... it must be one or the other .

Can I ask , how you know it was a god guiding you ?

When you say “ truth” , do you mean what Muslims believe is true, it’s not necessarily true.
You’ve already said you can’t be 100% sure it’s true .

Which is the most honest position you could take , even I am in that position.
The only difference between me and you is that you believe it’s true , and I don’t believe it’s true.
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-25-2019, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
I agree with you either a god or gods exist or they don’t .... it must be one or the other .

Can I ask , how you know it was a god guiding you ?
My heart is at peace and many things I used to question started making sense.

When you say “ truth” , do you mean what Muslims believe is true, it’s not necessarily true.
You’ve already said you can’t be 100% sure it’s true .
Which is the most honest position you could take , even I am in that position.
The only difference between me and you is that you believe it’s true , and I don’t believe it’s true.
At my own I can't ever tell if Islam is true religion. I could be born as a Muslim and believe Islam is true but what about those who are not born as Muslims? That is why I said that guidance only comes from God. If you never ask, you are not going to get it.

If God exists then it has to be one, otherwise we will have chaos in this world. Imagine having 2 bosses at your work, I used to be one of three bosses for an employee and I can tell it was a terrible experience. Everyone was pulling the poor guy in all directions and he was not sure who to listen and who to give a priority. Similarly, you can imagine if a country has two presidents? Anyways, point I want to make is that if God exists, then it makes more sense if He is One.

Just pray to Him with your heart and soul, humble yourself and you will experience a change which I can't describe. You have to experience that at your own. It may sound silly but if there is God and if there is life after death; you can at least say to God that you asked Him for guidance.
Reply

chalks75
07-25-2019, 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
My heart is at peace and many things I used to question started making sense.



At my own I can't ever tell if Islam is true religion. I could be born as a Muslim and believe Islam is true but what about those who are not born as Muslims? That is why I said that guidance only comes from God. If you never ask, you are not going to get it.

If God exists then it has to be one, otherwise we will have chaos in this world. Imagine having 2 bosses at your work, I used to be one of three bosses for an employee and I can tell it was a terrible experience. Everyone was pulling the poor guy in all directions and he was not sure who to listen and who to give a priority. Similarly, you can imagine if a country has two presidents? Anyways, point I want to make is that if God exists, then it makes more sense if He is One.

Just pray to Him with your heart and soul, humble yourself and you will experience a change which I can't describe. You have to experience that at your own. It may sound silly but if there is God and if there is life after death; you can at least say to God that you asked Him for guidance.
I admire your honestly habib, it really is commendable.

Given both you and I are unable to know for certain , and you have been convinced , and I have not .

Isn’t the only logical position I could take is that of A-theism.
&
Since the way to god is through Islam , and I haven’t been exposed to it, taught it ,
Then I’m right to be atheist , until I’m convinced a god is real .... I must be an atheist .
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-25-2019, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
I admire your honestly habib, it really is commendable.

Given both you and I are unable to know for certain , and you have been convinced , and I have not .

Isn’t the only logical position I could take is that of A-theism.
&
Since the way to god is through Islam , and I haven’t been exposed to it, taught it ,
Then I’m right to be atheist , until I’m convinced a god is real .... I must be an atheist .
In my opinion that is a wrong approach. As I mentioned, we human beings are not capable enough to prove anything with 100% conviction. And we don't have knowledge of everything, especially when it comes to matters of unseen. I am not promoting Islam, not Christianity or any other religion. First we need to find God and as discussed, you and I can't prove that God does not exist.

Only option we can work on is to ask God to show us the path if He does exist. This is as simple as it is. He will show you the way if He exists and if His guidance is through Quran, He will make it easy for you to understand it.

Otherwise, you are right to be an atheist. At least you can say that I prayed sincerely, asked for guidance and nothing happened.

All the best!
Reply

chalks75
07-25-2019, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
In my opinion that is a wrong approach. As I mentioned, we human beings are not capable enough to prove anything with 100% conviction. And we don't have knowledge of everything, especially when it comes to matters of unseen. I am not promoting Islam, not Christianity or any other religion. First we need to find God and as discussed, you and I can't prove that God does not exist.

Only option we can work on is to ask God to show us the path if He does exist. This is as simple as it is. He will show you the way if He exists and if His guidance is through Quran, He will make it easy for you to understand it.

Otherwise, you are right to be an atheist. At least you can say that I prayed sincerely, asked for guidance and nothing happened.

All the best!
I agree , we can’t know everything for certain ,
We know things in degrees of certainty,
What we believe should be based on the weight of the evidence that can be brought to bear on a given subject or claim.

I have listened to the arguments given by lots of Christians , it seems Muslims use the same arguments , I’m not convinced by them.

When I was a younger man , I prayed to god , and to be perfectly honest , felt nothing , it had no impact on me at all.

You may say I wasn’t sincere or such , i can only say that I prayed and I was genuine.

I can only say , I understand the arguments to the best of my ability , they do not convince me.

I must say habib,
I enjoyed this conversation very much.
You seem to be a genuine and honest man.
I think we have probably said everything that needs to be said .
Good luck in the future ,
May the sun shine on your face
And the wind be at your back.
[emoji3]
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-25-2019, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by chalks75
I agree , we can’t know everything for certain ,
We know things in degrees of certainty,
What we believe should be based on the weight of the evidence that can be brought to bear on a given subject or claim.

I have listened to the arguments given by lots of Christians , it seems Muslims use the same arguments , I’m not convinced by them.

When I was a younger man , I prayed to god , and to be perfectly honest , felt nothing , it had no impact on me at all.

You may say I wasn’t sincere or such , i can only say that I prayed and I was genuine.

I can only say , I understand the arguments to the best of my ability , they do not convince me.

I must say habib,
I enjoyed this conversation very much.
You seem to be a genuine and honest man.
I think we have probably said everything that needs to be said .
Good luck in the future ,
May the sun shine on your face
And the wind be at your back.
[emoji3]
I wish the same for you. I never doubted your sincerity. Allah knows what's in your heart better than anyone else. I believe that you will see the light when the time is right.

One last advice I have for you is to read Quran and try to find a local mosque near you so that you can interact with Muslims on personal level. Online interaction is nothing compared to personal and face to face interaction. If nothing else, it will at least help you understand what Quran teaches and what Muslims practice. Understanding this is also important to live in a multicultural society.

Stay blessed my friend!
Reply

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