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Studentofdeed
04-21-2020, 12:10 PM
how can one be sure Allah loves him? I feel far away and hated by him. I'm neglected and not acknowledged by him. I understand Allah doesn't need us but I made many sacrifices for him but he doesn't acknowledge me.

I tried to do a good deed yesterday in secret however it got exposed. Now I'm not sure if I'm going to get much reward. I had a choice to help two people. My friend who would appreciate me and a person whose family are racist and look down upon me and will never appreciate a single thing I do for them. I helped the family that disliked me because they needed it more. I went against my nafs and purely for the sake of Allah. I'm not saying I regret it, but I cannot deny I hate being looked down on. I wish to be acknowledged or loved by people. I understand that's not a reality. But I did that good deed purely for Allah. Yet Allah won't answer my dues or listen to me. I'm begging him to get me married to a good woman and to love me. But I'm more humiliated and the laughing stock of the mosque. They all make jokes at me. One person pranked me by saying he had a marriage purposal for me. He kept it going for like 3 days and then told me.he wanted to see my reaction. I forgave him but I was hurt and disgusted. He apologized also but even so I was disturbed how one can make a joke out of someone's misfortune. I hate the mosque because its filled with corruption. Everyone there claims to the best of the best Muslim but they are all rude. There are no good Muslims and finding a women seems more like an impossibility reality. I'm humiliated but despite that I'm still trying to do good to these people and not harm them or make fun against them. Why does Allah let me humiliated? Surely if he loved me he would protect my honor? How can I even be sure he even acknowledges me and likes me?
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Ümit
04-21-2020, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed
how can one be sure Allah loves him? I feel far away and hated by him. I'm neglected and not acknowledged by him. I understand Allah doesn't need us but I made many sacrifices for him but he doesn't acknowledge me.
you can be sure that Allah loves you because you know Allah loves everyone who believes in Him.
You do realize that you are not doing good deeds for Allahs sake right? From so far I can judge from your post, you are testing Allah by doing good deeds and by waiting for a reaction from Allah. you are doing a good deed, and you expect something back from Allah...that he loves you, that he acknowledges you, that he allows you to marry...etc.
that is not going to work.
format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed

I tried to do a good deed yesterday in secret however it got exposed. Now I'm not sure if I'm going to get much reward.
See? you are doing good deeds in order to get rewarded...not for Allahs sake. that is a difference.
Of course that is also not bad...very little people can only do good deeds just for Allahs sake and do not even expect rewards in return...but still, we should strive for it at least.

format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed

I had a choice to help two people. My friend who would appreciate me and a person whose family are racist and look down upon me and will never appreciate a single thing I do for them. I helped the family that disliked me because they needed it more. I went against my nafs and purely for the sake of Allah. I'm not saying I regret it, but I cannot deny I hate being looked down on. I wish to be acknowledged or loved by people. I understand that's not a reality. But I did that good deed purely for Allah. Yet Allah won't answer my dues or listen to me. I'm begging him to get me married to a good woman and to love me.
just keep your patience you will get married eventually inshaallah. I got married at the age of 35 at a point i start to think that I would not have a family of my own, and now I even got a beautiful 3 year old daughter alhamdulillah.
So you will get there too...it just isn't your time yet.
format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed

But I'm more humiliated and the laughing stock of the mosque. They all make jokes at me. One person pranked me by saying he had a marriage purposal for me. He kept it going for like 3 days and then told me.he wanted to see my reaction. I forgave him but I was hurt and disgusted. He apologized also but even so I was disturbed how one can make a joke out of someone's misfortune. I hate the mosque because its filled with corruption. Everyone there claims to the best of the best Muslim but they are all rude. There are no good Muslims and finding a women seems more like an impossibility reality. I'm humiliated but despite that I'm still trying to do good to these people and not harm them or make fun against them. Why does Allah let me humiliated? Surely if he loved me he would protect my honor? How can I even be sure he even acknowledges me and likes me?
You are doing good...keep it up, try not to lose your innocence and you will be OK.
Forget about what the people do or say about you...I am sure that is not so easy as it sounds...but still...
Allah loves you more than many other people...because He tests you heavier. no one gets a burden he cannot carry...This means Allah knows you are a strong person and can carry this burden...you should be proud of it.
Reply

Studentofdeed
04-21-2020, 07:24 PM
Jazakhallah khayran brother. I'm not expecting reward from the people but from Allah. Hence why I'm frustrated
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Studentofdeed
04-21-2020, 07:34 PM
By doing these good deeds expecting love from Allah, does that mean it won't happen then?
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moinudin
04-22-2020, 04:29 AM
The best reward you can hope for is in the hereafter. I encourage you to hold patient, think positively of Allah, and if you do your reward in the hereafter is greater than anything any of us can possibly imagine.

May Allah bless you with patience and help you find a pious wife.
Reply

Ümit
04-22-2020, 09:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed
By doing these good deeds expecting love from Allah, does that mean it won't happen then?
no. it means you cannot know whether something happens or not. It is in the future...no one knows what happens in the future. Allah may or may not choose to grant your wish. you want a guarantee like "if I do this good deed, then Allah will do that for me"...but you cannot do that...we are not in the position of negiotiating with Allah. we cannot wave at Allah with a contract saying "hello...I just did such a good deed, now you must do this for me".
We cannot demand stuff from Allah.
Reply

Studentofdeed
04-22-2020, 09:14 AM
Jazakhallah khayran. You are right. I apologize and did not realize
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Eric H
04-22-2020, 09:49 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Studentofdeed;
I'm not expecting reward from the people but from Allah. Hence why I'm frustrated
I think we all have many rewards from Allah, but we possibly do not acknowledge them or we take them for granted. I spent some time with a homeless man, he carried all his possessions in a couple of bags. He said, every night when I find somewhere to sleep, I reflect on my day and find several things to thank God for. The air I breathe, somewhere to wash, the people I meet, food and somewhere to sleep.

That homeless man changed how I thought, he had virtually nothing, but he was thankful. We learn profound lessons in unexpected ways.

May Allah bless you through your struggles in life,

Eric
Reply

Sister_45644
04-22-2020, 10:44 AM
Allah always gives us tests which might be seen even more difficult especially when we think of them.
Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear…” (Qur'an, 2:286)
So dont lose hope, and always keep your faith.
Allah will never forsake you. He hears and see everything.
He will give you the answer in his right time.
Reply

chalks75
04-24-2020, 06:43 PM
Hi student of deed
Your messages have been popping up in my inbox for ages,
I haven’t replied, I’ve tried to unfollow you but they keep popping up.

So I decided to write a reply.

You seem to be having a tough time of it,
You seem to be struggling

It appears you are living a life torn between 2 worlds.
How people act,
Vs
How you think people should act, based on the framework of the religion you share with them.

You really need to learn how to separate religion from reality.

“ god or the gods “
Are how people of the ancient world tried to make sense of the universe and their place in it.

These beliefs have been passed down through the generations through a mixture of cultural adherence, special privileges, indoctrination and fear.

People become convinced that their gods are part of reality and not just concepts that they are using to try and make sense of reality.

Being religious does not make a person moral, or even a good person.
What makes a person good is that they understand that their words and actions on those around them.
That impact can be positive or negative.

Your in an unfortunate position,
Someone, somewhere , at sometime has convinced you that a particular version of a particular god is real, and there is a particular way that god should be worshipped.

It’s through this lens you view the world.

Just remember
There are good and bad people
Cut the bad people out of your life, life’s to short.

Religion is just cultural beliefs
It’s not reality

Any way, chin up
Hope springs eternal [emoji2]
Reply

Eric H
04-24-2020, 07:02 PM
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;

Religion is just cultural beliefs
It’s not reality
God the creator of all that is seen and unseen exists fully and totally, despite what you might feel about religion.

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Just remember
There are good and bad people
Cut the bad people out of your life, life’s to short.
Sometimes you just can't escape them, they are relatives or work colleagues. Sometimes by kindness you can have an influence on toxic people.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric
Reply

Al-Ansariyah
04-24-2020, 07:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Hi student of deed
Your messages have been popping up in my inbox for ages,
I haven’t replied, I’ve tried to unfollow you but they keep popping up.

So I decided to write a reply.

You seem to be having a tough time of it,
You seem to be struggling

It appears you are living a life torn between 2 worlds.
How people act,
Vs
How you think people should act, based on the framework of the religion you share with them.

You really need to learn how to separate religion from reality.

“ god or the gods “
Are how people of the ancient world tried to make sense of the universe and their place in it.

These beliefs have been passed down through the generations through a mixture of cultural adherence, special privileges, indoctrination and fear.

People become convinced that their gods are part of reality and not just concepts that they are using to try and make sense of reality.

Being religious does not make a person moral, or even a good person.
What makes a person good is that they understand that their words and actions on those around them.
That impact can be positive or negative.

Your in an unfortunate position,
Someone, somewhere , at sometime has convinced you that a particular version of a particular god is real, and there is a particular way that god should be worshipped.

It’s through this lens you view the world.

Just remember
There are good and bad people
Cut the bad people out of your life, life’s to short.

Religion is just cultural beliefs
It’s not reality

Any way, chin up
Hope springs eternal [emoji2]
Look.. what u wrote is all illogical. What u wanna say is that everything in the universe was started by nothing. U'll have to understand that 0 plus 0 can never make 1.
Try to explore things. U'll find so much relation between islam and science. Look for the true path.
From what I know, @Studentofdeed would not consider ur this advice, as long as Allah guides him. He knows that Allah is testing him. Allah will make a way out for him.Don't think that u would lead anyone astray (until and unless Allah wills it.)

Try to understand islam. What it's all about. Islam is very logical religion. I m sure u gonna like it too. nd Allah has shown so many signs to mankind. We should ponder over those.
May Allah guide u.

Note: not taking anyone's side, not trying to offence anyone.
Reply

chalks75
04-24-2020, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;



God the creator of all that is seen and unseen exists fully and totally, despite what you might feel about religion.



Sometimes you just can't escape them, they are relatives or work colleagues. Sometimes by kindness you can have an influence on toxic people.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;



God the creator of all that is seen and unseen exists fully and totally, despite what you might feel about religion.



Sometimes you just can't escape them, they are relatives or work colleagues. Sometimes by kindness you can have an influence on toxic people.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric

There are no real gods
There are only people that believe gods are real .

You are convinced that a particular version of a particular god is real, just as other people are convinced a different version of a different god it a real .
Reply

chalks75
04-24-2020, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by user123name
Look.. what u wrote is all illogical. What u wanna say is that everything in the universe was started by nothing. U'll have to understand that 0 plus 0 can never make 1.
Try to explore things. U'll find so much relation between islam and science. Look for the true path.
From what I know, @Studentofdeed would not consider ur this advice, as long as Allah guides him. He knows that Allah is testing him. Allah will make a way out for him.Don't think that u would lead anyone astray (until and unless Allah wills it.)

Try to understand islam. What it's all about. Islam is very logical religion. I m sure u gonna like it too. nd Allah has shown so many signs to mankind. We should ponder over those.
May Allah guide u.

Note: not taking anyone's side, not trying to offence anyone.
I don’t believe that the universe came from nothing !

What did god create the universe from ?

Of course you think I your religion is rational and logical , every believer of every religion thinks their religion is rational and logical.

Otherwise they wouldn’t believe it!

It’s just religion
It shouldn’t be confused with reality [emoji106]
Reply

Eric H
04-24-2020, 08:21 PM
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;

What did god create the universe from ?
Either something had no beginning or something did not come from anything. Science cannot give us an answer either.

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
I don’t believe that the universe came from nothing !
When you say you don't believe, that means you have no proof. But we have a logical reason to believe that the universe could not exist without God.

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
You are convinced that a particular version of a particular god is real,
There is only 'One God' the creator of all that is seen and unseen. We are all created by the same God despite our differences, the same God hears all our prayers.

In the spirit of searching for God,
Eric
Reply

chalks75
04-24-2020, 09:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;



Either something had no beginning or something did not come from anything. Science cannot give us an answer either.



When you say you don't believe, that means you have no proof. But we have a logical reason to believe that the universe could not exist without God.



There is only 'One God' the creator of all that is seen and unseen. We are all created by the same God despite our differences, the same God hears all our prayers.

In the spirit of searching for God,
Eric

I don’t know how the universe came to be,
You don’t either, nor did people living 1800 years ago, or 3000 years ago.

You believe it was a particular version of a particular god, the world is littered with people that are convinced the universe was created by a as god.

I’m not convinced that it’s true , because there is no compelling to me.

Religions are cultural beliefs
Reply

Studentofdeed
04-24-2020, 10:06 PM
Thank you @chalks75 . Although I do not share your beliefs , I really do appreciate your efforts and did not mean to annoy you with the notifications. Regardless, chalks75 has made up his mind and we should not give this more trek otherwise more fitna can be caused. Let's keep it clean without arguing
Reply

chalks75
04-25-2020, 10:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed
Thank you @chalks75 . Although I do not share your beliefs , I really do appreciate your efforts and did not mean to annoy you with the notifications. Regardless, chalks75 has made up his mind and we should not give this more trek otherwise more fitna can be caused. Let's keep it clean without arguing

Hi
Student of deed

It wasn’t annoyed by your posts.

I’m not sure what “fitna ” is, you’ll have to explain it.

My point is, not wether your religion is true or not, I think your religion is as true as all the others.

My point is, you should not expect people to behave a certain way based on their religion.

Good people will do good things
Bad people will do bad things ,
Judge people on their actions, not what they believe.

Religion will rarely enter into,
In some cases people use their religion as an excuse to do bad things.

I quickly googled fitna



fitna
/ˈfɪtnə/
nounISLAM
noun: fitnah
unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler.

A rightful ruler, is the ruler who is just, and doing a good job.

A rightful ruler should be based on their ability to rule, not on who they are, who they know, who their parents were, what religion they believe etc
Reply

Eric H
04-25-2020, 11:18 AM
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler.
Our Muslim brothers and sisters are journeying through Ramadan, this is a time of fasting through daylight hours. It is also a time of prayer and giving extra to those less fortunate. I think it is a time when they need less distractions from trying to do what is right.

Kind regards
Eric
Reply

Studentofdeed
04-25-2020, 11:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Hi
Student of deed

It wasn’t annoyed by your posts.

I’m not sure what “fitna ” is, you’ll have to explain it.

My point is, not wether your religion is true or not, I think your religion is as true as all the others.

My point is, you should not expect people to behave a certain way based on their religion.

Good people will do good things
Bad people will do bad things ,
Judge people on their actions, not what they believe.

Religion will rarely enter into,
In some cases people use their religion as an excuse to do bad things.

I quickly googled fitna



fitna
/ˈfɪtnə/
nounISLAM
noun: fitnah
unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler.

A rightful ruler, is the ruler who is just, and doing a good job.

A rightful ruler should be based on their ability to rule, not on who they are, who they know, who their parents were, what religion they believe etc

Thank you @chalks75 I appreciate the kind words. I would advise you to please look into Islam, as there are many science that correlates with it. I am saying this not because for the heck of it, but because I care. You have nothing to lose but everything to gain. Be open and receptive. Thank you again

- - - Updated - - -

I will heed you advise as well. Thank you much
Reply

chalks75
04-25-2020, 12:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;



Our Muslim brothers and sisters are journeying through Ramadan, this is a time of fasting through daylight hours. It is also a time of prayer and giving extra to those less fortunate. I think it is a time when they need less distractions from trying to do what is right.

Kind regards
Eric

No worries [emoji106]
Reply

chalks75
04-25-2020, 12:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed
Thank you @chalks75 I appreciate the kind words. I would advise you to please look into Islam, as there are many science that correlates with it. I am saying this not because for the heck of it, but because I care. You have nothing to lose but everything to gain. Be open and receptive. Thank you again

- - - Updated - - -

I will heed you advise as well. Thank you much

Perhaps you should look more closely at the “ scientific “ claims.
If you speak to Christians, Jews, Hindus
They all claim their book contains science that was not known at the time the book was written.

I think you find
When science discovers something, people go back to their holy books and find verse, that if you interpret them in just the right way , they can appear to be a scientific prophecy.
This happens in all religions.

I will be impressed when people start pulling new scientific discoveries from holy books,
Before science has discovered them,
Reply

chalks75
04-25-2020, 12:07 PM
[QUOTE=chalks75;3026387]Perhaps you should look more closely at the “ scientific “ claims.
If you speak to Christians, Jews, Hindus
They all claim their book contains science that was not known at the time the book was written.

I think you find
When science discovers something, people go back to their holy books and find verse, that if you interpret them in just the right way , they can appear to be a scientific prophecy.
This happens in all religions.

I will be impressed when people start pulling new scientific discoveries from holy books,
Before science has discovered them,

I have been informed that this is the time of Ramadan.
I will let get on with your rituals.
Take care [emoji106]
Reply

Eric H
04-26-2020, 06:29 AM
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;

Cut the bad people out of your life, life’s to short.
A lot of advertising is around putting ourselves first, get what we want now, if we adopt this attitude then we don't have to worry about others. They say around one in four people will suffer with mental health problems in their lives. If they become too much of a problem, they get dumped by the people around them, this can only make matters worse. I spend a fair amount of time with troubled and angry people, there are reasons why they are like this, they often feel unloved and no one cares.

In the UK, by the time a child reaches fifteen, about half of them are not living with both their biological parents. I meet deeply depressed men who have been separated from their children, I meet troubled women and children from broken relations.

I believe that we should choose kindness as a default position with all people, I do believe that kindness can overcome hostility given time. If we want to live in a kinder and more caring society, then we have to become the change we want to see. You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

We pray for a peace that surpasses all understanding,

Eric
Reply

chalks75
04-26-2020, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;



A lot of advertising is around putting ourselves first, get what we want now, if we adopt this attitude then we don't have to worry about others. They say around one in four people will suffer with mental health problems in their lives. If they become too much of a problem, they get dumped by the people around them, this can only make matters worse. I spend a fair amount of time with troubled and angry people, there are reasons why they are like this, they often feel unloved and no one cares.

In the UK, by the time a child reaches fifteen, about half of them are not living with both their biological parents. I meet deeply depressed men who have been separated from their children, I meet troubled women and children from broken relations.

I believe that we should choose kindness as a default position with all people, I do believe that kindness can overcome hostility given time. If we want to live in a kinder and more caring society, then we have to become the change we want to see. You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

We pray for a peace that surpasses all understanding,

Eric
I agree that we should show compassion and understanding to those around us.

We should attempt to create the society we want to live in, the best way to do that is to live in a manner that projects the ideals of the society in which we would hope to live.

There is a limit,
It’s important to look after yourself, so you can look after others.

If people are a constant negative in your life, and you have done what you can to help, the last thing you want is to be dragged down with them.
Reply

Eric H
04-26-2020, 03:57 PM
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;

There is a limit,
It’s important to look after yourself, so you can look after others.
You will probably not understand this, but through faith in God; you can find a profound sense of peace that surpasses all understanding.

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
If people are a constant negative in your life, and you have done what you can to help, the last thing you want is to be dragged down with them.
I agree with you, I don't want to be dragged down with them, But I always live in hope that we can be dragged up together; faith in God helps with resilience, perseverance, kindness and above all, hope that something good can happen. I have had a knife held up against my throat, I have asked two angry people to hand me their knives, I have walked in the middle of numerous fights involving angry drunks. I walked in on two people who were in the process of ending their lives, I meet up with people who have done time for murder, drug addicts and dealers.

I do all this voluntarily in the hope that something good can happen. Nothing worthwhile is risk free.

In the spirit of praying for a peace that surpasses all understanding,

Eric
Reply

Ümit
04-27-2020, 07:30 AM
[/QUOTE]

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
You really need to learn how to separate religion from reality.

“ god or the gods “
Are how people of the ancient world tried to make sense of the universe and their place in it.
Sorry chalks,
you really need to learn how to use your logic.
religion IS reality, otherwise there was no need to believe in some religion when people knew it was just fiction. The trick is, which religion is the right one.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

These beliefs have been passed down through the generations through a mixture of cultural adherence, special privileges, indoctrination and fear.
And that which has been passed on, has been changed over time. This is true for all other religions...just not for Islaam. The Quraan has been dictated to our Prophet sas and hasn't been changed a word ever since. so no passing over through a mixture of cultural whatever...nu special privileges...etc. everything is exactly the same like the very first minute Islaam came upon us.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

People become convinced that their gods are part of reality and not just concepts that they are using to try and make sense of reality.
Is that so strange? I think the other way around is much more stranger...to follow a religion where God is just a concept and which you are not really convinced of.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

Being religious does not make a person moral, or even a good person.
agreed...but it DOED define what "good" and "bad" is.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Someone, somewhere , at sometime has convinced you that a particular version of a particular god is real, and there is a particular way that god should be worshipped.

It’s through this lens you view the world.
unneccessary use of the word "particular". Allah is real and should be worshipped like Islaam teaches us. Of course muslims view the world through this lens. It would be strange if they didn't.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Just remember
There are good and bad people
Cut the bad people out of your life, life’s to short.

Religion is just cultural beliefs
It’s not reality

Any way, chin up
Hope springs eternal [emoji2]
I am sorry, but get your facts right. You might be right about all other religions but Islaam has NOTHING to do with culture. everywhere in the whole wide world, people of all possible cultures, all have exact the same religion and with that the same rituals...how can that be if Islaam was just cultural beliefs like you claim?

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
There are no real gods
There are only people that believe gods are real .
you sound very certain of your case. could you back that up with evidence or some sort of scientific argument? I guess not.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

You are convinced that a particular version of a particular god is real, just as other people are convinced a different version of a different god it a real .
except that all other religions fail to be logical and Islaam is the only religion that makes sense...is without errors and totally logical.

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
I don’t believe that the universe came from nothing !

What did god create the universe from ?
yet, science claims exactly the same thing. According to the Big Bang theory everything came into existence after the explosion of a tiny instable core with a huge density. But where and how that core came into such situation....even science doesn't know...so where did that came from then?
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Of course you think I your religion is rational and logical , every believer of every religion thinks their religion is rational and logical.

Otherwise they wouldn’t believe it!
In your case...you do not have any logical answers for certain questions, yet you refuse to look for answers and just ignore...because science alone does not provide you any.
We on the other hand look deeper and find our answers.

You know...even science ends somewhere...and you HAVE to believe from that point. It is this belief that drives science. People look for a certain direction for logical answers because they believe that is the right thing to do...and depending on the evidence they found, they know their belief was right or wrong...that is how science works.

In the case of Islaam...this is the same....except for one thing...the information that Islaam provides (i.e. the Quraan) is given...look in that direction and you will find answers.

Do you know what I think is very stupid about people who do not have a religion?
even they have certain questions in their heads...and science do not provide them with logical answers...
and they have a hunch how to find their answers...which is religion...yet, they do not use this opportunity to investigate...they just ignore this hunch.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

It’s just religion
It shouldn’t be confused with reality [emoji106]
Yeah...just do that


format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Perhaps you should look more closely at the “ scientific “ claims.
If you speak to Christians, Jews, Hindus
They all claim their book contains science that was not known at the time the book was written.

I think you find
When science discovers something, people go back to their holy books and find verse, that if you interpret them in just the right way , they can appear to be a scientific prophecy.
This happens in all religions.
This is because Islaam is part of the reality and everything science discovers is in line with the Quraan. All other religions do originate from Islaam, so they also may have some truth in them untill a certain level. That is why every religion seems to be able to explain the scientific evidences in their own way...however, Islaam can be the only right one.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

I will be impressed when people start pulling new scientific discoveries from holy books,
Before science has discovered them,
The Quraan is not a science book. it just gives you a certain direction. you have to do science to find your exact answer.
Reply

chalks75
04-27-2020, 08:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;



You will probably not understand this, but through faith in God; you can find a profound sense of peace that surpasses all understanding.



I agree with you, I don't want to be dragged down with them, But I always live in hope that we can be dragged up together; faith in God helps with resilience, perseverance, kindness and above all, hope that something good can happen. I have had a knife held up against my throat, I have asked two angry people to hand me their knives, I have walked in the middle of numerous fights involving angry drunks. I walked in on two people who were in the process of ending their lives, I meet up with people who have done time for murder, drug addicts and dealers.

I do all this voluntarily in the hope that something good can happen. Nothing worthwhile is risk free.

In the spirit of praying for a peace that surpasses all understanding,

Eric

Hi Eric
I do 100% believe people find a sense of peace from their religion, and it does not seem to matter the religion or the god they are worshipping.
How beneficial a religion is, either socially or personally has no bearing on its truth.

I find peace fishing, sitting on the river bank and dawn or dusk, while the river meanders lazily past, it makes no difference if I catch a fish or not.

I agree that we should help those less fortunate than us, to quote Tony benn
We should be the tide that flits the most boats, but we cannot let people continually scupper or boats
Reply

chalks75
04-27-2020, 09:18 AM

Sorry chalks,
you really need to learn how to use your logic.
religion IS reality, otherwise there was no need to believe in some religion when people knew it was just fiction. The trick is, which religion is the right one.

And that which has been passed on, has been changed over time. This is true for all other religions...just not for Islaam. The Quraan has been dictated to our Prophet sas and hasn't been changed a word ever since. so no passing over through a mixture of cultural whatever...nu special privileges...etc. everything is exactly the same like the very first minute Islaam came upon us.

Is that so strange? I think the other way around is much more stranger...to follow a religion where God is just a concept and which you are not really convinced of.

agreed...but it DOED define what "good" and "bad" is.

unneccessary use of the word "particular". Allah is real and should be worshipped like Islaam teaches us. Of course muslims view the world through this lens. It would be strange if they didn't.

I am sorry, but get your facts right. You might be right about all other religions but Islaam has NOTHING to do with culture. everywhere in the whole wide world, people of all possible cultures, all have exact the same religion and with that the same rituals...how can that be if Islaam was just cultural beliefs like you claim?


you sound very certain of your case. could you back that up with evidence or some sort of scientific argument? I guess not.

except that all other religions fail to be logical and Islaam is the only religion that makes sense...is without errors and totally logical.


yet, science claims exactly the same thing. According to the Big Bang theory everything came into existence after the explosion of a tiny instable core with a huge density. But where and how that core came into such situation....even science doesn't know...so where did that came from then?

In your case...you do not have any logical answers for certain questions, yet you refuse to look for answers and just ignore...because science alone does not provide you any.
We on the other hand look deeper and find our answers.

You know...even science ends somewhere...and you HAVE to believe from that point. It is this belief that drives science. People look for a certain direction for logical answers because they believe that is the right thing to do...and depending on the evidence they found, they know their belief was right or wrong...that is how science works.

In the case of Islaam...this is the same....except for one thing...the information that Islaam provides (i.e. the Quraan) is given...look in that direction and you will find answers.

Do you know what I think is very stupid about people who do not have a religion?
even they have certain questions in their heads...and science do not provide them with logical answers...
and they have a hunch how to find their answers...which is religion...yet, they do not use this opportunity to investigate...they just ignore this hunch.

Yeah...just do that



This is because Islaam is part of the reality and everything science discovers is in line with the Quraan. All other religions do originate from Islaam, so they also may have some truth in them untill a certain level. That is why every religion seems to be able to explain the scientific evidences in their own way...however, Islaam can be the only right one.

The Quraan is not a science book. it just gives you a certain direction. you have to do science to find your exact answer.[/QUOTE]


Sorry chalks,
you really need to learn how to use your logic.
religion IS reality, otherwise there was no need to believe in some religion when people knew it was just fiction. The trick is, which religion is the right one.

And that which has been passed on, has been changed over time. This is true for all other religions...just not for Islaam. The Quraan has been dictated to our Prophet sas and hasn't been changed a word ever since. so no passing over through a mixture of cultural whatever...nu special privileges...etc. everything is exactly the same like the very first minute Islaam came upon us.

Is that so strange? I think the other way around is much more stranger...to follow a religion where God is just a concept and which you are not really convinced of.

agreed...but it DOED define what "good" and "bad" is.

unneccessary use of the word "particular". Allah is real and should be worshipped like Islaam teaches us. Of course muslims view the world through this lens. It would be strange if they didn't.

I am sorry, but get your facts right. You might be right about all other religions but Islaam has NOTHING to do with culture. everywhere in the whole wide world, people of all possible cultures, all have exact the same religion and with that the same rituals...how can that be if Islaam was just cultural beliefs like you claim?


you sound very certain of your case. could you back that up with evidence or some sort of scientific argument? I guess not.

except that all other religions fail to be logical and Islaam is the only religion that makes sense...is without errors and totally logical.


yet, science claims exactly the same thing. According to the Big Bang theory everything came into existence after the explosion of a tiny instable core with a huge density. But where and how that core came into such situation....even science doesn't know...so where did that came from then?

In your case...you do not have any logical answers for certain questions, yet you refuse to look for answers and just ignore...because science alone does not provide you any.
We on the other hand look deeper and find our answers.

You know...even science ends somewhere...and you HAVE to believe from that point. It is this belief that drives science. People look for a certain direction for logical answers because they believe that is the right thing to do...and depending on the evidence they found, they know their belief was right or wrong...that is how science works.

In the case of Islaam...this is the same....except for one thing...the information that Islaam provides (i.e. the Quraan) is given...look in that direction and you will find answers.

Do you know what I think is very stupid about people who do not have a religion?
even they have certain questions in their heads...and science do not provide them with logical answers...
and they have a hunch how to find their answers...which is religion...yet, they do not use this opportunity to investigate...they just ignore this hunch.

Yeah...just do that



This is because Islaam is part of the reality and everything science discovers is in line with the Quraan. All other religions do originate from Islaam, so they also may have some truth in them untill a certain level. That is why every religion seems to be able to explain the scientific evidences in their own way...however, Islaam can be the only right one.

The Quraan is not a science book. it just gives you a certain direction. you have to do science to find your exact answer.[/QUOTE]

Hi umit

That was quite a long post, and it covered quite a lot.

I know how to use logic, thank you very much.

Religions are reality ?
That is a disturbing statement.

Your god is real, or it’s not
The Hindu gods are real, or not
The Christian , Jewish god
Or the 1000s of other gods that people have been convinced was real, are real or they are not.

If something is untrue, it makes no difference if it has been unchanged for 1 month or 1000 years.

Of course Islam is cultural,
I began in a certain area of the world among a certain group of people, then it spread as other religions have spread.


Of course you believe your religion is real, and the one true religion
All believers in every religion that has ever existed, believed that their god/ gods we’re really and their religion was the way.

Let me ask you this
Does your religion teach, that it’s the one true religion, that your god is the one true god ?
Just like all the other religions.

The god you believe is real
What’s the first mention of that god in history ?
The Old Testament ?

The gods/god is a concept that people believe different things about.

Islam and Christianity both grew out of Judaism.
Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrianism.
Which no doubt was influenced by some other religion.

Religions are mankind’s response to the unknown.
They all try to attempt to answer the sane fundamental questions
Origin of life
Morality
Origin of the universe.

Oh and by the way,
If you think that the Big Bang theory describes the beginning of the universe, then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the theory.

There are no real gods
Only those that believe gods are real
Reply

Al-Ansariyah
04-27-2020, 09:35 AM
Ok...I had this one question....
Who created u??
If ur answer is that u came from ur mother's womb, then please tell me who created ur mother?. Nd through this, just go back in the history as to who created the first human??
(I hope u believe in history or is it just the present that u believe in :D )

If u think that first human was the result of evolution of some animal, then u really need to use ur sense.
Once again let me ask u , Who created u??
Reply

Ümit
04-27-2020, 09:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Sorry chalks,
Hi umit

That was quite a long post, and it covered quite a lot.

I know how to use logic, thank you very much.
It doesn't seem that way unfortunately.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75
Religions are reality ?
That is a disturbing statement.
No, Religion is reality...like in the one true religion....all others are not reality of course.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

Your god is real, or it’s not
The Hindu gods are real, or not
The Christian , Jewish god
Or the 1000s of other gods that people have been convinced was real, are real or they are not.
again no, my God is the Hindu God, the Jewish God, the Christian God, etc. All of them describe the one true God, because they all originate from that one true religion.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

If something is untrue, it makes no difference if it has been unchanged for 1 month or 1000 years.
I agree
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

Of course Islam is cultural,
I began in a certain area of the world among a certain group of people, then it spread as other religions have spread.
No. Islaam was already there when the first man walked the Earth. It is the one true religion It was the religion of Adam as, Noah as, Solomon as, Moses as, Jesus as and Mohammed sas and many many others from all over history.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

Of course you believe your religion is real, and the one true religion
All believers in every religion that has ever existed, believed that their god/ gods we’re really and their religion was the way.
except that Islaam is the only one among them that DOES make sense...completely in line with science...and is much more logical than not believing in a God.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

Let me ask you this
Does your religion teach, that it’s the one true religion, that your god is the one true god ?
Just like all the other religions.
I understand what you mean, you do not have to repeat yourself that much...But it seems that I DO have to repeat myself:
except that Islaam is the only one among them that DOES make sense...completely in line with science...and is much more logical than not believing in a God.

format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

The god you believe is real
What’s the first mention of that god in history ?
The Old Testament ?
No, Every single Holy book you can find which is dictated to mankind.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

The gods/god is a concept that people believe different things about.
This is your claim without having proof...can you back it up?
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

Islam and Christianity both grew out of Judaism.
Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrianism.
Which no doubt was influenced by some other religion.
No...they all grew out of the one true religion...Why do you think Christianism and Judaism have stories about so many prophets? every time human kind wandered off from the one true religion and created their own...God would send a new prophet to guide them back to the one true religion...that happened with Zoroastrianism, Judaism and is now happening with Christianity...one last time a prophet has been send...which is Mohammad sas...and people are guided back to the one true religion which is Islaam.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

Religions are mankind’s response to the unknown.
They all try to attempt to answer the sane fundamental questions
Origin of life
Morality
Origin of the universe.
That is what you believe...you cannot back it up unfortunately.
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

Oh and by the way,
If you think that the Big Bang theory describes the beginning of the universe, then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the theory.
Then educate us please...what DOES describe the beginning of the universe?
format_quote Originally Posted by chalks75

There are no real gods
Only those that believe gods are real
Again...this is your claim...based on nothing. You think you are backed up by science...but guess what, the joke is on you...science is on our side.
Reply

Studentofdeed
04-27-2020, 11:17 AM
Why is everyone arguing for the heck of it? Just leave it. Allah guides who he Willis if that person himself is looking for guidance. Don't unnecessary try to convince someone who isn't interested.

@chalks75 i would say if you are man of logic and Islam, look into Islam. Read the Quran, many scientific laws not theories but laws which cannot be disapproved are in the Quran. There is also the thing of probability. If a person makes 1000 predictions, sure one may come true but when all of them come true, doesn't that peak your interest?
A chance of guessing on true scientific facts, then another, then another, with so many choices possible but only you predict the right one? At the end it really depends on you. Do you WANT to believe? Or do you preferably living the way you are. I have no ill feelings and please excuse my brothers and sisters, as religion is very dear to them. And sometimes we take it personally and get insulted. I ask Allah to guide us all
Reply

Ümit
04-27-2020, 12:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed
Why is everyone arguing for the heck of it? Just leave it. Allah guides who he Willis if that person himself is looking for guidance. Don't unnecessary try to convince someone who isn't interested.

@chalks75 i would say if you are man of logic and Islam, look into Islam. Read the Quran, many scientific laws not theories but laws which cannot be disapproved are in the Quran. There is also the thing of probability. If a person makes 1000 predictions, sure one may come true but when all of them come true, doesn't that peak your interest?
A chance of guessing on true scientific facts, then another, then another, with so many choices possible but only you predict the right one? At the end it really depends on you. Do you WANT to believe? Or do you preferably living the way you are. I have no ill feelings and please excuse my brothers and sisters, as religion is very dear to them. And sometimes we take it personally and get insulted. I ask Allah to guide us all
Im sorry that your thread is being used for this discussion. You are right...Allah guides who He wills...
However, my purpose is not to convince him. I Just want to make sure that he is not misinformed. As soon as I am convinced that he is not misinformed anymore(usually the point that someone goes back to reuse older arguments and starts to repeat himself), I end the discussion. because after that point, the person just starts refusing and denying, and to continue the discussion begins to be meaningless.
Reply

chalks75
04-27-2020, 12:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by user123name
Ok...I had this one question....
Who created u??
If ur answer is that u came from ur mother's womb, then please tell me who created ur mother?. Nd through this, just go back in the history as to who created the first human??
(I hope u believe in history or is it just the present that u believe in :D )

If u think that first human was the result of evolution of some animal, then u really need to use ur sense.
Once again let me ask u , Who created u??
Evolution is a fact.
It’s an observed and testable fact about the universe.
Hopefully you are not making the mistake of confusing evolution ( the fact ) with the theory of natural selection which attempts to explain the fact.

There was no first human.
All humans evolved from a common ancestor, at least that is what the evidence suggests.

I understand you have a religious answer to this scientific question, as do people of other religions.

But that’s just your religion.
Reply

سيف الله
04-27-2020, 01:09 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed
Why is everyone arguing for the heck of it? Just leave it. Allah guides who he Willis if that person himself is looking for guidance. Don't unnecessary try to convince someone who isn't interested.
Its the internet atheist who is (surprise surprise) derailing this thread with his usual preaching and posturing.

As much as its pointless its important to respond, so the impressionable don't get conned.
Reply

Eric H
04-27-2020, 02:28 PM
Greetings and peace be with you chalks75;

I feel we should leave this thread for our Student friend. I have started a new thread asking how could life evolve without God.

https://www.islamicboard.com/health-...ml#post3026494

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric

How could the universe and life start without God, how did life evolve without God?
Science please. The creation of the universe is history, whatever we choose to believe cannot change history. Evolution is a fact. It’s an observed and...
Reply

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