Do you support Sharia Law and should true Muslims strive to implement...

[Patrick21]

...Sharia Law as the governing law of every nation?

Thanks in advance.

[AabiruSabeel]

What do you understand by Sharia Law? Do you know exactly what Sharia Law is or are you just basing your opinion on what you have heard from media outlets? Because there's a lot of misinformation floating around regarding Sharia Law.

[Patrick21]

I know nothing about Sharia Law.

It's my understanding that some Muslim nations live under Sharia Law but that the majority do not.

I'm curious how Muslims here feel about living under Sharia Law.

[keiv]

It would be ironic for a person to claim they're Muslim, yet reject Islamic rulings.

Regarding your second part. A non Islamic country living according to Islamic laws? To be quite honest, I don't see how that would work. Unless Muslim countries take the "democratic" approach and drop freedom bombs on every country that doesn't conform to their beliefs, it's not gonna happen.

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[Patrick21]

It would be ironic for a person to claim they're Muslim, yet reject Islamic rulings.

Regarding your second part. A non Islamic country living according to Islamic laws? To be quite honest, I don't see how that would work. Unless Muslim countries take the "democratic" approach and drop freedom bombs on every country that doesn't conform to their beliefs, it's not gonna happen.

I have had similar conversations with American Christians who believe the laws of the nation should be based on the bible. I don't share that view. Furthermore and, unlike in the Islamic world, which does have nations which base some of their laws on the Koran (or so I understand) I don't know of any nation that governs based on the Christian bible.

In my view and, in order that we can ALL have equal rights and equal opportunities to live our lives in accordance with our own values, I believe that governments should be SECULAR. However, there are limitations. For instance, your freedom to be you includes another's freedom to be free FROM you. In other words, it should NOT be legal to murder or rape another simply because one's "religion" says that it's "ok". Make sense?

One concern that many non-Muslims have is that, if and when Muslims become the majority, freedoms will be lost and replaced with Sharia Law. However, I also know that there are many Muslims that do not live under Sharia Law nor do they want to. My guess is that those Muslims are not as committed to Islam just like some Christians who are not as devout as other Christians that want to live under some type of Christian theocracy.

Hence, my question in the OP.

Thanks for the feedback.

[AabiruSabeel]

Your concerns arise mostly due to misunderstanding that Sharia law is some sort of draconian law, which is entirely not true. That is why I asked earlier whether you know exactly what Sharia law is.

Sharia law is based on divinely revealed laws found in the Quran and Sunnah. It is an all-encompassing law which guarantees:

• Social equality and justice
• Religious freedom and coexistence
• Financial security
• Human and animal rights
• Political stability and sovereignty

and a lot more

It safeguards the society against all sorts of mischief and corruption, and serves as a deterrent for almost all the crimes.

I think this link explains it all in better way: Sharia law: What it is, what it isn’t, and why you should know - Theos Think Tank - Understanding faith. Enriching society.

This is another brief explanation related to its financial aspects: Sharia Law - Overview, Sources, Principles, Categories (corporatefinanceinstitute.com)

[Wingchung39]

I don't think anyone needs to be under sharia law to be a good person and do good .

Quran (2:62): Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve

[Al-Ansariyah]

...Sharia Law as the governing law of every nation?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, all muslims do.
But as there is disunity in the ummah at this time,we can only try to convey the true message to our brothers and sisters at individual level and tell them the importance of sharia and how can we achieve it.

You say that some muslims dont want to live under sharia? Whoever opposes what ALLAH has sent down is a kafir as stated in Quran and hadith. And obviously if a muslim makes laws then he calling people to worship them which makes them taghoot(false god).

And dont believe what you have heard of sharia as being an oppressive government, look into the links which brother has posted.

[AabiruSabeel]

I don't think anyone needs to be under sharia law to be a good person and do good .

Even if you're on the fitrah, you still need Sharia to protect yourself from those who are not.

[Wingchung39]

That is a good point you have made there , I live in India and its officially a democratic country but we have lots of problems from other religions and people . Most people don't even know what the meaning of democracy is .
Every time i go out i face a lot of problems on a daily basis .


But sometimes what we see as sharia laws are laws laid down by terrorist groups such as Taliban and ISIS .

All those feels like the opposite of what Quran talks about religion here ,

There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

[Patrick21]

You say that some muslims dont want to live under sharia?

Apparently. After all, how many Muslim-majority nations are there that are not under Sharia Law?

[Al-Ansariyah]

Apparently. After all, how many Muslim-majority nations are there that are not under Sharia Law?

Those so called muslim leaders have opposed ALLAH and they are calling people to worship them by making people obey the laws made by them, they are false gods. They have no authority to make laws! If they were really the servants of ALLAH , they would have brought sharia law in their country and waged jihad. But they are a part of kufriya system which takes a person out of islam.
But why are u asking all this? Simple answer to your question is all muslims do support sharia law and those who are against it they are not muslims.

[Patrick21]

Those so called muslim leaders have opposed ALLAH and hence they have apostated. They have no authority to make laws! If they were really the servants of ALLAH , they would have brought sharia law in their country and waged jihad. But they are a part of kufriya system which takes a person out of islam.
But why are u asking all this? Simple answer to your question is all muslims do support sharia law and those who are against it they are not muslims.

Why should non-Muslims want to welcome Muslims to their community since Muslims want Sharia rather than secular law?

[keiv]

I don't think anyone needs to be under sharia law to be a good person and do good .

How do you objectively determine what is good and bad in a secular world? Besides, Islamic laws encompass a whole lot more than simply whether a person does good or bad

[keiv]

I have had similar conversations with American Christians who believe the laws of the nation should be based on the bible. I don't share that view. Furthermore and, unlike in the Islamic world, which does have nations which base some of their laws on the Koran (or so I understand) I don't know of any nation that governs based on the Christian bible.

In my view and, in order that we can ALL have equal rights and equal opportunities to live our lives in accordance with our own values, I believe that governments should be SECULAR. However, there are limitations. For instance, your freedom to be you includes another's freedom to be free FROM you. In other words, it should NOT be legal to murder or rape another simply because one's "religion" says that it's "ok". Make sense?

One concern that many non-Muslims have is that, if and when Muslims become the majority, freedoms will be lost and replaced with Sharia Law. However, I also know that there are many Muslims that do not live under Sharia Law nor do they want to. My guess is that those Muslims are not as committed to Islam just like some Christians who are not as devout as other Christians that want to live under some type of Christian theocracy.

Hence, my question in the OP.

Thanks for the feedback.

These Muslims that oppose laws which are based on the religion they follow, is there more to the story? I don't understand the logic behind that.

No country would last long if it ruled on the views you presented. America is not quite there yet, but it's slowly headed in that direction. The lgbtq+ agenda has taken off full throttle and is now being heavily marketed and shoved in our faces. There was a time when you would be considered a bigot for telling a gay person they weren't born that way, but rather chose it. Yet, nowadays, the lgbtq community is telling everyone that they can choose to be whatever they want. That's just the start. Wait till more groups come out asking for their freedom and equality.

[Patrick21]

These Muslims that oppose laws which are based on the religion they follow, is there more to the story? I don't understand the logic behind that.

No country would last long if it ruled on the views you presented. America is not quite there yet, but it's slowly headed in that direction. The lgbtq+ agenda has taken off full throttle and is now being heavily marketed and shoved in our faces. There was a time when you would be considered a bigot for telling a gay person they weren't born that way, but rather chose it. Yet, nowadays, the lgbtq community is telling everyone that they can choose to be whatever they want. That's just the start. Wait till more groups come out asking for their freedom and equality.

At least the American left supports Islam; they hate Christianity.

[Labayk]

Hey Patrick, Shariah simply means God's Law. It is the law that God prescribed. That's all. Everything in Islam is considered to be from Allah's shariah. From praying and fasting, to inheritance laws and socio-economic rights to whatever else God commanded us to do or forbade us from.

[Patrick21]

Hey Patrick, Shariah simply means God's Law.

I understand. You're opposed to secular government and you want society to be governmed by the laws of Islam. You don't recognize another citizen's desire or "right" to be free from your belief system. This is why I am opposed to the U.S. accepting migrants that want to be ruled by a theocracy rather than the U.S. Constitution.

[keiv]

At least the American left supports Islam; they hate Christianity.

They do not support Islam. Various middle eastern countries have literally been bombed back to the stone age. The US is either directly or indirectly responsible for those attacks. From Bush to Obama, left or right, it makes no difference. What western liberals and modernists support are the likes of Ilhan Omar, Yasir Qadhi, Omar Suleiman, and so on.

I understand. You're opposed to secular government and you want society to be governmed by the laws of Islam. You don't recognize another citizen's desire or "right" to be free from your belief system. This is why I am opposed to the U.S. accepting migrants that want to be ruled by a theocracy rather than the U.S. Constitution.

I don't think you understand. I was born and raised in the US. I oppose the things which go against my belief (drinking, drugs, relations outside of marriage, same sex relations, and the list goes on). Does that mean I try to force others into following my belief? No. This country allows people who enjoy doing the filth mentioned above to be free from my belief system. Does that mean I cannot live here? No. I'm not able to practice my religion 100%, but I have the freedom to openly identify as a Muslim, to pray, to fast, to go to the mosque. I also have the freedom to stay away from people and places that promote the things that go against my beliefs. Same goes for those that migrate here.

[Patrick21]

Does that mean I try to force others into following my belief? No.

If Muslims were the majority and they wanted to abolish the Constitution in favor of Sharia Law, would you support it?

If a potential immigrant disagrees with the U.S. Constitution, they should instead immigrate to a nation that shares their values.

[Labayk]

I understand. You're opposed to secular government and you want society to be governmed by the laws of Islam. You don't recognize another citizen's desire or "right" to be free from your belief system. This is why I am opposed to the U.S. accepting migrants that want to be ruled by a theocracy rather than the U.S. Constitution.

Um...I think you took my response to another level. I was just trying to answer your question in a simple way as to what "Shariah" means. As for not recognizing another citizen's desire or rights to practice another belief system, then this is not true because Christians and Jews have been able to practice their religion and even implement their own religious laws within their own communities within Muslim lands for centuries without impediment which is actually more religious freedom then they enjoy now in America because Jews and Christians do not have a right to implement Christian or Jewish law upon themselves according to secular law. They have no choice but to submit to secular law.

It is injustice and oppression to deny people the right to the same opportunities that you enjoy for free with really no effort on your own part just because they have a different belief than you. No one from amongst the Jews, Christians, or Muslims in the United States is seeking to create a theocracy to overthrow the secular state. But just because they would like the system to be different, they should be barred entry?

How did you, right before my eyes, criticize us wrongly for not recognizing another citizen's right to adhere to another belief system and then in the very next sentence declare your opposition to allowing immigrants the opportunity and right to provide a comfortable lifestyle for themselves and their families just because of having another belief system? :hmm:

[Patrick21]

As an American I believe our nation's laws should be based on the U.S. Constitution. You believe they should be based on Sharia Law.

Do you believe that Saudi Arabia is obligated to accept non-Muslims to emigrate there just like you expect the U.S. accept immigrants that oppose the U.S. Constitution?

['Abdullah]

@Patrick21
Perhaps I should ask which law do you follow? Man made law or the God's law?Man made law always favors those who are wealthy and powerful. Those in power have and will always twist the law to benefit themselves.

[Labayk]

Do you believe that Saudi Arabia is obligated to accept non-Muslims to emigrate there just like you expect the U.S. accept immigrants that oppose the U.S. Constitution?

Ah, but these are two completely different situations. Firstly, Saudi Arabia does allow non-Muslims to emigrate there and many do for work (economic opportunities). There are specific restrictions, however, when it comes to a particular region within Saudi Arabia called al-Hijaz, because there is an injunction from the Prophet (May Allah's prayers and peace be upon him) himself that in that region, only Islam should be permitted. This area is where the two holiest cities are located (Mecca and Medinah) and are a sanctuary for the Muslims.

Muslims do not usually go to this area for economic reasons. They go there from all around the world primarily to get closer to their Lord. Outside of Hijaz, immigrants are allowed and have been allowed for centuries to benefit from the economic prosperity that Muslims enjoyed throughout their history and up until now in certain parts of the Muslim world while still practicing their religion. In Egypt, for example, there are massive churches that are hundreds of years old all over Cairo.

If a group of christians, for example, within the United States wanted to set up their own christian-only commune in which they would feel more comfortable interacting within their own environment, I wouldn't have a problem with that. If, however, that commune put those christians strategically in charge of the nation's resources and they then wanted to bar everyone else from the same prosperity and horde it all for themselves, then...well...that's a very different story, isn't it?

I've noticed that you have christianity set as your religion in your profile. You know then that the wealth that has come to any of us is from our Creator and a trust from Him. How then, can you promote restricting God's Abundant Provision from much of His Creation? Do you think you are entitled to that prosperity simply because of your wise decision to be born in a certain geographical location? You have no more a right to it than anyone else, and if Allah has entrusted you with it then denying that provision to others who are in even more need of it than you is a breach of that trust.

['Abdullah]

As an American I believe our nation's laws should be based on the U.S. Constitution. You believe they should be based on Sharia Law.

US Constitution is NOT God's law & if you are a Christian then I am sure you don't support everything in US Constitution. For example do you support rights for LGBT groups? Do you support right to have abortion? If you do, these are against Christian teachings just like these are against Islamic teachings.

[xboxisdead]

If Muslims were the majority and they wanted to abolish the Constitution in favor of Sharia Law, would you support it?

If a potential immigrant disagrees with the U.S. Constitution, they should instead immigrate to a nation that shares their values.

You are scared of us! You are scared of Muslims because you fear us depriving you from fulfilling your carnal desires!!

[Patrick21]

No, I just don't want to live under a Muslim, Christian Jewish, etc., theocracy.

[xboxisdead]

No, I just don't want to live under a Muslim, Christian Jewish, etc., theocracy.

And you have discriminatory understanding about Islam that you will be forced to follow it if majority of population are Muslims? As an advice, before you have this fear and negative connotation against Islam, research first. I mean, research well without it being tainted with prejudice and attack against Islam. Research and learn about our religion and it's history, as if you are learning by watching a documentary channel to learn and be educated. Once you learned about our religion (and yours before you apostate and replaced it with a different religion) and it's history. You will be shocked to find out that you came out really ignorant.

[keiv]

If Muslims were the majority and they wanted to abolish the Constitution in favor of Sharia Law, would you support it?

Of course I would support it. I'm still trying to understand why any Muslim wouldn't. Judging by your overall posts and the hypothetical you posed, it seems you are worried that migrant Muslims and possibly American Muslims, are trying to turn the country into an Islamic state. There are Muslim majority countries that already exist which are not Islamic states. Relative to what we know as an Islamic state from the early Muslims anyways. What makes you think migrants are going to come here and try to convert a non Muslim majority country? Lets not forget it wasn't so long ago that Saudi offered millions to Nicki Minaj to go twerking on a stage in front of a bunch of Arabs. Embarrassingly enough, she turned them down. But I digress..

If a potential immigrant disagrees with the U.S. Constitution, they should instead immigrate to a nation that shares their values.

Are migrants disagreeing with the constitution a big issue? Last I remember, it was a bunch of patriotic Americans who stormed their own capitol where people were killed and property was destroyed.

[Ümit]

No, I just don't want to live under a Muslim, Christian Jewish, etc., theocracy.

I think you just fear the Shariah law, because you do not know much about it...and the only information you DO have about it is either negative, incorrect or not complete.

You think it is a list of medival barbaric rules, primitive and in no match with the modern rules you have now which reconsiders your norms and values.
But if you would take a closer look at it, you will find out that on the contrary, the shariah is very fair, humane, tolerant, pro-women, pro animal-welfare, and not outdated at all.

The subject is of course huge, but if I may take an example of it I will try to explain it to you:

The shariah dictates that which food is permitted to us (halal) and which food is forbidden (haram)
You of course know that we cannot eat pork but we may eat beef.
However, it does not end there.

first of all, things that are forbidden in Islaam, are forbidden because it is harmfull in some sort of way. either harmfull for our body or soul, or harmfull for others, for animals, environment, society...whatever.

Pork is harmfull for our body. You can read about it in many researches online.

second, even beef is only permitted for us if all the conditions are met:
it starts with animal care. tortured animals are not suitable for consumption. Neglegted, mutilated or starved animals are generally forbidden to consume.
Therefore, their meat is worthless. This forces farmers to take care for their animals.

Animals may not be given stress, and should not be held in too small cages.

Animals know death. They recognise fellow animals in distress. So slaughtering animals in front of other animals is an absolute no-go.
So animals being slaughtered in modern slaughterhouses where animals can just watch is totally barbaric.

Modern law dictates animals to be anaesthetized or tranquilized prior to slaughter. That is considered "humane".
however the part they do not speak about is that the "tranquiler" is actually a metall pin through the brain.
it happens regularly that one shot is not enough for a big animal and it must be repeated for the animal to go down.

The heart keeps pumping fresh blood and oxygen to the brain, the animal feels a lot of pain cannot react because the brain is damaged.
Very humane indeed.

Islaam dictates to cut the both main arteries with a sharp knive so the blood and oxygen supply to the brain is cut off, so the animal does not feel anything in a couple of seconds.
which is of course a much better and secure method.

Besides, Islaam is a worldwide religion. Here in Europe we could drug the animal down if we wanted, but the rulings should also be acceptable for someone in Africa.

This is one example of why the shariah is and should be superior to all other modern rulings. it encompasses all.

[xboxisdead]

I think you just fear the Shariah law, because you do not know much about it...and the only information you DO have about it is either negative, incorrect or not complete.

You think it is a list of medival barbaric rules, primitive and in no match with the modern rules you have now which reconsiders your norms and values.
But if you would take a closer look at it, you will find out that on the contrary, the shariah is very fair, humane, tolerant, pro-women, pro animal-welfare, and not outdated at all.

The subject is of course huge, but if I may take an example of it I will try to explain it to you:

The shariah dictates that which food is permitted to us (halal) and which food is forbidden (haram)
You of course know that we cannot eat pork but we may eat beef.
However, it does not end there.

first of all, things that are forbidden in Islaam, are forbidden because it is harmfull in some sort of way. either harmfull for our body or soul, or harmfull for others, for animals, environment, society...whatever.

Pork is harmfull for our body. You can read about it in many researches online.

second, even beef is only permitted for us if all the conditions are met:
it starts with animal care. tortured animals are not suitable for consumption. Neglegted, mutilated or starved animals are generally forbidden to consume.
Therefore, their meat is worthless. This forces farmers to take care for their animals.

Animals may not be given stress, and should not be held in too small cages.

Animals know death. They recognise fellow animals in distress. So slaughtering animals in front of other animals is an absolute no-go.
So animals being slaughtered in modern slaughterhouses where animals can just watch is totally barbaric.

Modern law dictates animals to be anaesthetized or tranquilized prior to slaughter. That is considered "humane".
however the part they do not speak about is that the "tranquiler" is actually a metall pin through the brain.
it happens regularly that one shot is not enough for a big animal and it must be repeated for the animal to go down.

The heart keeps pumping fresh blood and oxygen to the brain, the animal feels a lot of pain cannot react because the brain is damaged.
Very humane indeed.

Islaam dictates to cut the both main arteries with a sharp knive so the blood and oxygen supply to the brain is cut off, so the animal does not feel anything in a couple of seconds.
which is of course a much better and secure method.

Besides, Islaam is a worldwide religion. Here in Europe we could drug the animal down if we wanted, but the rulings should also be acceptable for someone in Africa.

This is one example of why the shariah is and should be superior to all other modern rulings. it encompasses all.

Let us not forget, Sharia Law is PRO FAMILY...just because it is pro-women, animal, etc, it is NOT pro ANTI-FAMILY, destroy masculinity to uplift women and pro perversion much like what we have here

[Patrick21]

Thanks for the feedback!

[Wingchung39]

I would like to add this to the discussion here ,

Quran 4:58

Lo! Allah commandeth you that ye restore deposits to their owners, and, if ye judge between mankind, that ye judge justly Lo! comely is this which Allah admonisheth you. Lo! Allah is ever Hearer, Seer

[Eric H]

No, I just don't want to live under a Muslim, Christian Jewish, etc., theocracy.

Are you saying human laws are better than God's law?

Why?

[Patrick21]

Are you saying human laws are better than God's law?

Why?

And this is why I, as an American, oppose permitting most Muslims from emigrating to the U.S. Why? Because most Muslims don't respect the views and beliefs of others. They certainly don't respect the U.S. Constitution and would happily eliminate all rights under it while abolishing our democratic system in favor of a Muslim strongman. No thanks.

[keiv]

Are you saying human laws are better than God's law?

Why?

And this is why I, as an American, oppose permitting most Muslims from emigrating to the U.S. Why? Because most Muslims don't respect the views and beliefs of others. They certainly don't respect the U.S. Constitution and would happily eliminate all rights under it while abolishing our democratic system in favor of a Muslim strongman. No thanks.

I’m not sure if you meant to quote someone else, but the question still stands. Eric is a Christian btw.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Patrick,

And this is why I, as an American, oppose permitting most Muslims from emigrating to the U.S. Why? Because most Muslims don't respect the views and beliefs of others.

America had no legal right to invade Iraq. Their actions along with the British destabilized Iraq resulting in thousands dead and two million refugees. So please tell me how Americans respect Muslims in other countries.

If you live in fear of Muslims, it is because you know how Americans have treated them.

There is 'One God' we are all created by the same God, we have a duty to care for all of God's creation. That has to mean caring for each other despite our differences.

I am Christian by the way.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
Eric

[Patrick21]

Greetings and peace be with you Patrick,



America had no legal right to invade Iraq. Their actions along with the British destabilized Iraq resulting in thousands dead and two million refugees. So please tell me how Americans respect Muslims in other countries.

If you live in fear of Muslims, it is because you know how Americans have treated them.

There is 'One God' we are all created by the same God, we have a duty to care for all of God's creation. That has to mean caring for each other despite our differences.

I am Christian by the way.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
Eric

Iraq is not even remotely the topic of this thread.

[Eric H]

Greetings Patrick,

Iraq is not even remotely the topic of this thread.

Law should be about Justice. Justice should be fair to all people despite our differences. The US went against the spirit of the law by bombing and invading Iraq, this was against the wishes of the United Nations.

Because most Muslims don't respect the views and beliefs of others.

The American government backed by most American people seem to have little respect for others outside of their country.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.
Eric

[Patrick21]

Greetings Patrick,

Law should be about Justice. Justice should be fair to all people despite our differences. The US went against the spirit of the law by bombing and invading Iraq, this was against the wishes of the United Nations.



The American government backed by most American people seem to have little respect for others outside of their country.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.
Eric

Again, you are TOTALLY off-topic. Perhaps you can create a thread wherein you can express your displeasure with U.S. policy in Iraq so tha we can keep this thread ON-TOPIC.

[*charisma*]

And this is why I, as an American, oppose permitting most Muslims from emigrating to the U.S. Why? Because most Muslims don't respect the views and beliefs of others. They certainly don't respect the U.S. Constitution and would happily eliminate all rights under it while abolishing our democratic system in favor of a Muslim strongman. No thanks.

just because we believe in and support shariah law doesn't mean we are incapable of respecting the beliefs and views of others. To each their own. It's also counterintuitive to say that you oppose muslims to emigrate to the US for those reasons, because most likely the muslims that emigrate there are doing so for anything else but to practice their religion. WHy would muslims who whole heartedly want to live under sharia law go to the US of all places? Makes no sense. Secondly, the majority of us don't even know what living under shariah law is like. We weren't born in the Muslim countries that (partially) practice it (no muslim country practices it fully). With all that's going on in our personal lives and the world, we really don't care to mess up your life of luxury lol. If we were to start somewhere in implementing shariah law, it'd be in a muslim majority country. You need to stop living in fear from people who are different and who believe in different things. No one's out to get you.

And to be quite frank regarding the constitution, there are many Americans who already oppose it, and it isn't perfect. Try to be more objective, because I'm sure you haven't met many muslims to make such a judgement.