format_quote Originally Posted by
Eddy
I think you're right. After so much reading and getting confused so many times I still believe that if Islam is truth then the Quran verses must be timeless.
It doesn't make any sense that Allah used an entire revelation to be used for 24 hours or so and then you can just use it as an Historical event to be forgotten or avoid it in the future.
So let's go back on topic, are verses meant to be timeless or some were meant to be used only on one occasion?
By reading the Quran you would say they are definitely timeless because you rarely see any specific location or time mentioned in them.
You would be right if that was the case, but it isn't. Quran verses are timeless. There are several ways Allah revealed verses to teach us. The most familiar is the "You may do this, but you may not do that" types of verses. But there are also verses that were revealed during a specific event in the history and only applies to that specific event but which still is an example for us today. in other words, yes it applies to only that event in history, but we still can take lessons from it.
A clear example of this:
al-Baqarah 2:65-66:
And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: ‘Be you monkeys, despised and rejected.’So We made this punishment an example to their own and to succeeding generations and a lesson to those who are Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)
This verse clearly refers to one specific event in the history, and how they got punished.
It was about Jews from a certain town who were not allowed to fish on sabbath day (saturday)...so they thought they could outsmart that rule by setting up their nets on friday, and collect it on sunday...
That way they could say "we did not fish on Saturday (our nets did, we just collected the fish the day after)"
Allah punished them by transforming them into apes.
This verse does not mean that some jews or other humans nowadays will be transformed into apes...It just shows that trying to outsmart the verses in the Quraan wont get you anywhere. The Jews living in that town thought they outsmarted Allahs words...they thought they found a cunning way how to make money on a non working day...but they couldn't get away with it.
This applies to us too. We can think we found legitimate reasons to disobey Allah by slightly differently interpretting the Quraan so that we can avoid certain rules...just like the jews back then thought they did...however, we would not be able to get away with it.
We cannot outsmart Allah.
So again...back to our topic: the verse refers to one occasion in history, the message behind it is timeless.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Eddy
In many occasions not even Muhammad (based on the Hadith) interpret them as a one time only verses.
So who is making those assumptions and based on what?
The answer is, "the scholars".
Ibn Kathir wrote:
So here you see for the first time who linked the verse with an historical fact.
It wasn't Allah (in the Quran) nor Muhammad (in the Hadith) but it was Ibn Kathir in the Tafsir while explaining the verse.
Scholars like Ibn Kathir do not make assumptions. They collect historical information and use that to provide us background information about the verses. They give us the essential information we need to understand the verses correctly. without that information, we would be lost.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Eddy
So now we know how the verse was linked to an historical fact but still Ibn Kathir never said this verse was to be used only this time.
Yes it was created for this occasion but not to be used for this occasion only unless I'm still missing something.
So here is my question if anybody cares to answer it.
What am I missing?
Where does it say the verse is to be used only this time?
I would appreciate a quote from some scripture if that is possible.
What you are missing is the lesson that you should take from that one-time-only-event. The event was one time...the message behind it is timeless.
If a son killed his father and this father happened to be a idol worshipper, then you still cannot just assume that the son killed him because of that.
You should look a little deeper and find out WHY he killed him.
Islaam clearly says that you cannot harm anyone if they are just minding their own business...
But in this case, just like brother abirusabeel mentioned, it was the battle of Badr going on.
What was the father doing at a war zone? I dont think he was just peacefully whorshipping idols.
He was fighting against muslims.
What would you do if a war broke out and some family members have been choosing the opposite side and were fighting against you? you would avoid them as long as you can and then you would fight them.
So he did the same.