Does the trinity make sense?

[eesa the kiwi]

Deen show special

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you eesa,

When scripture does not make sense to us; does that mean scripture is wrong? Or is our understanding incomplete?

The Bible refers to a husband and wife as being 'As One'. We know they are two persons; so what would make them 'As One'? Could it be they are as One with God and his purpose, they are as one with each other and with their children. Does this oneness refer to loving God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength; and loving our neighbours as we love ourselves; in obedience to God and his purpose.

May Allah bless you and all those you love and care for,
Eric

[eesa the kiwi]

Greetings and peace be with you eesa,

When scripture does not make sense to us; does that mean scripture is wrong? Or is our understanding incomplete?

The Bible refers to a husband and wife as being 'As One'. We know they are two persons; so what would make them 'As One'? Could it be they are as One with God and his purpose, they are as one with each other and with their children. Does this oneness refer to loving God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength; and loving our neighbours as we love ourselves; in obedience to God and his purpose.

May Allah bless you and all those you love and care for,
Eric

Hi Eric Good to see you still posting , I hope you are well

The thing is the speech of jesus alayhi Salam does not back this concept up

Surely your concern as a Christian would be to find the true message of jesus and follow it.

I have a question for you as a person who claims to be a follower of Jesus alayhi Salam.

If jesus taught that he was not divine rather was a noble prophet would you follow him in this? Or would you reject him and insist on worshiping an idol of him.

Food for thought

[Spiritlead]

Why the Trinity makes sense -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op_i1w9zc6U

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[Spiritlead]

Hi Eric Good to see you still posting , I hope you are well

The thing is the speech of jesus alayhi Salam does not back this concept up

Surely your concern as a Christian would be to find the true message of jesus and follow it.

I have a question for you as a person who claims to be a follower of Jesus alayhi Salam.

If jesus taught that he was not divine rather was a noble prophet would you follow him in this? Or would you reject him and insist on worshiping an idol of him.

Food for thought

Please allow me to jump in.

Do you realise that Christians believe in only One God? Do you realise the term Trinity is not even found in the Bible? The concept however does. Please provide evidence that the speech of Jesus does not support the Trinity.

You mention the “true” message of Jesus.” Read the Injil and you will come to the same conclusion as Christians. Oh and there is no “other Injil of Jesus”. There never was and I dare you to prove differently.

---

You ask “ If jesus taught that he was not divine rather was a noble prophet would i follow him in this?” Answer. No. because my experience is that I have accessed a genuine relationship with God through Jesus The Son. No idol there. Just a real relationship with The Father through The Son.

Food for thought.

[eesa the kiwi]

Please allow me to jump in.

Do you realise that Christians believe in only One God? Do you realise the term Trinity is not even found in the Bible? The concept however does. Please provide evidence that the speech of Jesus does not support the Trinity.

You mention the “true” message of Jesus.” Read the Injil and you will come to the same conclusion as Christians. Oh and there is no “other Injil of Jesus”. There never was and I dare you to prove differently.

---

You ask “ If jesus taught that he was not divine rather was a noble prophet would i follow him in this?” Answer. No. because my experience is that I have accessed a genuine relationship with God through Jesus The Son. No idol there. Just a real relationship with The Father through The Son.

Food for thought.

Hi spirit lead hope you are well

Sorry for the late reply. You didn't by any chance watch the video I linked because it was kind of the point of the thread to discuss it

SubhanAllah that's a heavy statement of yours. You would blatantly disobey jesus if he instructed you to not worship him as an idol

That statement alone kind of tells me I'm wasting my time but any who

Firstly before I start discussing with you may I suggest you drop the attitude. Being harsh and obnoxious with how you interact with people is not the way of Islam or christianity so unless you are on some third religion lose the chip on your shoulder. It's a discussion forum people discuss things here. No one here is your enemy. If we can't agree at least we can come to respect and understand each other.

Now back to your post

You claim to have a relationship with jesus alayhi Salam and that is your evidence for christianity being true.

This line of reasoning is useless to prove a religion. Hindus say they have sincere relationships with Shiva or whoever's it is they worship. Would you accept their relationship as evidence?

No of course you wouldn't. They could be delusional, they could have fooled themselves they could be being emotionally manipulated by a devil. Many possibilities but one thing we can rule out is the plastic idol being worshipped is a god.

I think we can both agree Hinduism is false and such an argument is irrelevant.



I suggest you spend more time studying with a critical and open mind. It's the message that counts. Our feelings are irrelevant if the oppose the truth

Enjoy the rest of your day

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you eesa;

one thing we can rule out is the plastic idol being worshipped is a god.

Anything we worship more than God is an idol. But I sense the real idols most of us worship in some way are the seven deadly sins; pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth.

Blessings,
Eric

[Spiritlead]

Hi spirit lead hope you are well

Sorry for the late reply. You didn't by any chance watch the video I linked because it was kind of the point of the thread to discuss it

SubhanAllah that's a heavy statement of yours. You would blatantly disobey jesus if he instructed you to not worship him as an idol

That statement alone kind of tells me I'm wasting my time but any who

Firstly before I start discussing with you may I suggest you drop the attitude. Being harsh and obnoxious with how you interact with people is not the way of Islam or christianity so unless you are on some third religion lose the chip on your shoulder. It's a discussion forum people discuss things here. No one here is your enemy. If we can't agree at least we can come to respect and understand each other.

Now back to your post

You claim to have a relationship with jesus alayhi Salam and that is your evidence for christianity being true.

This line of reasoning is useless to prove a religion. Hindus say they have sincere relationships with Shiva or whoever's it is they worship. Would you accept their relationship as evidence?

No of course you wouldn't. They could be delusional, they could have fooled themselves they could be being emotionally manipulated by a devil. Many possibilities but one thing we can rule out is the plastic idol being worshipped is a god.

I think we can both agree Hinduism is false and such an argument is irrelevant.



I suggest you spend more time studying with a critical and open mind. It's the message that counts. Our feelings are irrelevant if the oppose the truth

Enjoy the rest of your day

Hello Esa Kiwi. Thank you for the reply. Harsh and obnoxious. Really ? I will keep your advice in mind but I think you are being overly sensitive. Also I find your attempts at entrapment with mind and word games to be lacking in integrity. Have I watched the video? No. Because I’m not really interested in the ‘trinity’ and more interested in your points to Eric. As you obviously have an interest in the trinity did you watch the link I posted ? That said however I note you haven’t answered my points so I will repeat them. Do you realise that Christians believe in only One God? Do you realise the term Trinity is not even found in the Bible? The concept however does. Please provide evidence that the speech of Jesus does not support the Trinity.
“Blatantly disobey Jesus”. I think you are more interested in playing word / mind games than honest discussion. I have a question for you as a person who claims to be a follower of Mohamad.--
You mention the “true” message of Jesus.” Read the Injil and you will come to the same conclusion as Christians. And there is no “other Injil of Jesus”. There never was and you will not be able to prove differently.
I disagree. A relationship with God The Father through Christ Jesus God The Son is the ultimate evidence for a religion. And yes I would accept a Hindu relationship as evidence as something real for them. However one needs to look at the fruit or outworking of a persons religious experience. And what I see in the Hindu experience does not impress me. What about you Esa Kiwi. Do you have a real experience with God? Or is it just rules and intellect ?

[Predator]

Eric ,I am sure you know that in 10 commands it's forbidden to make and worship idols

You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below

Exodus 20:4

Are you saying that you are rejecting that commandment and that the real idols are pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth.

[Eric H]

Peace be with you Predator,

Eric ,I am sure you know that in 10 commands it's forbidden to make and worship idols

Idols take many forms. If we make a stone idol and call it god, then clearly this stone idol is not god and cannot help us. We would be a fool to think otherwise.

However if you are always chasing after more money, bigger houses, more cars etc, then greed becomes your idol. Because you spend your time worshiping money when you could be worshipping Allah. The same goes for pride, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth. Our sins separate us from God.

Colossians 3
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

[anatolian]

Greetings and peace be with you eesa,

When scripture does not make sense to us; does that mean scripture is wrong? Or is our understanding incomplete?

The Bible refers to a husband and wife as being 'As One'. We know they are two persons; so what would make them 'As One'? Could it be they are as One with God and his purpose, they are as one with each other and with their children. Does this oneness refer to loving God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength; and loving our neighbours as we love ourselves; in obedience to God and his purpose.

May Allah bless you and all those you love and care for,
Eric

Hello Eric

You explain it with your own words. When Jesus says I and the Father are one he is refering to the oneness in purpose as the husband and wife are one in purpose, not in essence. Christians misinterprete the Gospel.