Why do innocent people suffer?

[Euphorium]

Al Salam alaikum,

I was talking to a friend of mine who is an atheist and he asked me: "if God is real, then why do innocent people suffer?"
He wasn't only referring to things like wars (which can simply be explained as being caused by humans not God himself)
He also meant examples of when one gets a child that happens to have cancer. His question is how would an innocent child deserve that?

He mentioned another example of a friend of his (who's also an atheist), who ended up in the hospital, because of a suicide attempt at 15 years old, because her life was really rough.

How can I answer these questions in a way that would be understandable to an atheist?
I am very grateful for any answers or advice you can give me.

With best regards

[Eric H]

Peace be with you Euphorium; and welcome to the forum,

"if God is real, then why do innocent people suffer?"

If there is no god, then these people will never find justice, they will suffer and die; end of story. If I kill someone, there can be no real justice here on Earth, that person remains dead.

If an atheist does not want God in their life, why should they expect God to sort their problems out. We will all die at some point, whether as a child from cancer, or old age or murder. There are no final solutions here on Earth, we live a short time then die. If there is a God, then God has the power to restore all these people to a greater good life after death.

May Allah bless you on your journey through life.
Eric

[Abz2000]

Humankind has been granted the ability to discern and run the affairs of earth and its surroundings, and is acting as God's vicegerent on earth -and as a result, each individual is held accountable for inner intentions of actions according to ability and role.
and is rewarded according to initiative and culpability.

Playing with your intellectual abilities of logical reasoning should explain why He rarely controls the actions of the test subjects - although He does play a direct part when He deems it necessary - especially when He receives valid mass complaints of injustice by those who are willing to follow righteous guidance in future governance - logically one can perceive that this kind of action keeps His intervention to a minimum.

[Euphorium]

Thank you for your reply,

If there is no god, then these people will never find justice, they will suffer and die; end of story. If I kill someone, there can be no real justice here on Earth, that person remains dead.
If an atheist does not want God in their life, why should they expect God to sort their problems out.
Eric

I understand what you mean, but then they could ask me "how about the Muslim children who aren't even 7 years old and still suffer to death?"
Sorry if I'm being argumentative, but I want to be well prepared when I go in a discussion with an atheist again.

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[Abz2000]

Thank you for your reply,



I understand what you mean, but then they could ask me "how about the Muslim children who aren't even 7 years old and still suffer to death?"
Sorry if I'm being argumentative, but I want to be well prepared when I go in a discussion with an atheist again.

Each individual will be rewarded by God in such a manner that the afflicted will be more than satisfied with the judgement - the infliction of unjust suffering is usually perpetrated by the very humans who reject the guidance of God, and/or is inherited biologically through evolutionary and marriage choices in the way wealth / poverty is.

Why we are allowed to kill and eat animals capable of feeling anguish is something you'll have to ask Him one day.
I simply see it as it is and know that it's the hand we're dealt in the test.

Ultimately, it's our duty to choose the best and most righteous path and resultant choices - with establishment of justice under God's plumbline and scales being a primary concern - coupled with the education that is necessary to avoid horrific crimes.

[Ümit]

Al Salam alaikum,

I was talking to a friend of mine who is an atheist and he asked me: "if God is real, then why do innocent people suffer?"

Innocent people (like baby's, people with down syndrom, etc) suffer, because of the test we all are undergoing on this Earth.
This world is a temporary world meant to test us...nothing more.
some people are tested with richness, others with poverty, some with health and others with sickness, etc.

He wasn't only referring to things like wars (which can simply be explained as being caused by humans not God himself)

How is that a good explanation? If humans decide to start a war, the war itself is not a part of Gods plan?
What happened to God being All knowing and All seeing?

He also meant examples of when one gets a child that happens to have cancer. His question is how would an innocent child deserve that?

He mentioned another example of a friend of his (who's also an atheist), who ended up in the hospital, because of a suicide attempt at 15 years old, because her life was really rough.

The same answer complies to these both examples. The child having cancer is of course not a test for the child when its younger than 7 years old...because kids that young are not yet responsible for their actions.
But it is a test for the mother, the father, grandparents, other relatives, doctor, kindergarten teacher, neighbours, etc...how they deal with the situation etc.

How can I answer these questions in a way that would be understandable to an atheist?
I am very grateful for any answers or advice you can give me.

With best regards

[M.I.A.]

Al Salam alaikum,

I was talking to a friend of mine who is an atheist and he asked me: "if God is real, then why do innocent people suffer?"
He wasn't only referring to things like wars (which can simply be explained as being caused by humans not God himself)
He also meant examples of when one gets a child that happens to have cancer. His question is how would an innocent child deserve that?

He mentioned another example of a friend of his (who's also an atheist), who ended up in the hospital, because of a suicide attempt at 15 years old, because her life was really rough.

How can I answer these questions in a way that would be understandable to an atheist?
I am very grateful for any answers or advice you can give me.

With best regards

Everybody puts forward for themselves.. And then you meet people that want to write on your back.

Unfortunately nobody can see it. Nobody can hear it. Nobody can feel it. This is how mankind asks of each other and wrongs it's own soul.

It's not God, but it's the way of the world.
The fine line between being good at warding away evil and becoming hard of heart is only razor sharp for those who are aware of it.

....ignorance is bliss.

Nobodies going to give an answer that is anything other than appealing to your humanity and reasoning.

Because God is everything and nothing.

Sorry if I offend, but you can't really take my posts at face value.. Because I'm a poor man living in a rich house.

[Euphorium]

The same answer complies to these both examples. The child having cancer is of course not a test for the child when its younger than 7 years old...because kids that young are not yet responsible for their actions.
But it is a test for the mother, the father, grandparents, other relatives, doctor, kindergarten teacher, neighbours, etc...how they deal with the situation etc.

I understand that, but then an atheist would reply to this saying" and why does the poor child have to get cancer just to test the mother or whoever? How is that just for the child?"

[Eric H]

but then an atheist would reply to this saying" and why does the poor child have to get cancer

This is only a problem for the atheist, because they want all justice to happen here on Earth. If there is no God, then the child dying from cancer is not fair. However, Only God can raise the child to a greater good life after death. So as a believer, we accept and trust that Allah can raise that child back to eternal life after death. After all, what is a few years on Earth, compared to an eternity with God.

May Allah bless you on your journey,
Eric

[Abz2000]

At-Takwir 81:8

وَإِذَا ٱلْمَوْءُۥدَةُ سُئِلَتْ

When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned -

At-Takwir 81:9

بِأَىِّ ذَنۢبٍ قُتِلَتْ

For what crime she was killed;

.......


Al-A'raf 7:43

وَنَزَعْنَا مَا فِى صُدُورِهِم مِّنْ غِلٍّ تَجْرِى مِن تَحْتِهِمُ ٱلْأَنْهَٰرُۖ وَقَالُوا۟ ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ ٱلَّذِى هَدَىٰنَا لِهَٰذَا وَمَا كُنَّا لِنَهْتَدِىَ لَوْلَآ أَنْ هَدَىٰنَا ٱللَّهُۖ لَقَدْ جَآءَتْ رُسُلُ رَبِّنَا بِٱلْحَقِّۖ وَنُودُوٓا۟ أَن تِلْكُمُ ٱلْجَنَّةُ أُورِثْتُمُوهَا بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ

And We shall remove from their hearts any lurking sense of injury;- beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: "Praise be to Allah, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth, that the messengers of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: "Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness)."

....


Al-A'raf 7:44

وَنَادَىٰٓ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلْجَنَّةِ أَصْحَٰبَ ٱلنَّارِ أَن قَدْ وَجَدْنَا مَا وَعَدَنَا رَبُّنَا حَقًّا فَهَلْ وَجَدتُّم مَّا وَعَدَ رَبُّكُمْ حَقًّاۖ قَالُوا۟ نَعَمْۚ فَأَذَّنَ مُؤَذِّنٌۢ بَيْنَهُمْ أَن لَّعْنَةُ ٱللَّهِ عَلَى ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ

The Companions of the Garden will call out to the Companions of the Fire: "We have indeed found the promises of our Lord to us true: Have you also found Your Lord's promises true?" They shall say, "Yes"; but a crier shall proclaim between them: "The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers;-

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[Israfil_Servant]

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullah baraktoh
Israfil_Servant here, Ive been through some crazy things and I think from reading the Qur'an that Allah SWT is testing the potential of ones faith whenever one suffers or something might be lacking in their

[Israfil_Servant]

*lacking in their prayers , never forget to repel Shaitan

[Ümit]

I understand that, but then an atheist would reply to this saying" and why does the poor child have to get cancer just to test the mother or whoever? How is that just for the child?"

This question has been answered several times already in this thread alone:

There are no final solutions here on Earth.

Each individual will be rewarded by God in such a manner that the afflicted will be more than satisfied with the judgement

This is only a problem for the atheist, because they want all justice to happen here on Earth. If there is no God, then the child dying from cancer is not fair.

If a baby gets ou of its room at one unguarded moment tumbles down the stairs and breaks its neck, how is that just for the child?ing
If you are walking outside and then suddenly someone comes and stabs you in your back, and while you are bleeding out on the street, he is conveniently searching your pockets for valuables...how is that fair to you?
even though he gets arrested and sentenced to life...is that really fair? you lost your life forever.

again: we live in an unjust world. unjustice happens all the time and all around us...not just to small innocent children, but to everyone. The justice system we have on this World is hardly a compensation, if at all.
But then again, this world is just a test and temporary...so it doesn't need to be just...on the contrary, the unjust part is a part of the test.

We have the afterlife which is just. everything will be compensated there...from the most painfull sufferings to the smallest discomfort will be compensated greatly in the afterlife.

[404]

It's not so much about who deserves to suffer or who doesn't, but rather what is to be gained from it. Keep in mind that the messengers and their companions have suffered in the worst ways as well.

وَعَنْ جَابِرٍ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ: «يَوَدُّ أَهْلُ الْعَافِيَةِ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ حِينَ يُعْطَى أَهْلُ الْبَلَاءِ الثَّوَابَ لَوْ أَنَّ جُلُودَهُمْ كَانَتْ قُرِضَتْ فِي الدُّنْيَا بِالْمَقَارِيضِ» . رَوَاهُ التِّرْمِذِيّ

Jabir reported God’s messenger as saying, "On the day of resurrection, when people who have suffered affliction are given their reward, those who are healthy will wish their skins had been cut to pieces with scissors when they were in the world.”
Tirmidhi transmitted it, saying that this is a gharib tradition.

Mishkat al-Masabih 1570
https://sunnah.com/mishkat:1570

وَعَنْ أَبِي الدَّرْدَاءِ قَالَ: سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَقُولُ: «مَا مِنْ رَجُلٍ يُصَابُ بِشَيْءٍ فِي جَسَدِهِ فَتَصَدَّقَ بِهِ إِلَّا رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ بِهِ دَرَجَةً وَحَطَّ عَنْهُ خَطِيئَة» . رَوَاهُ التِّرْمِذِيّ وَابْن مَاجَه

Abud Darda’ told that he heard God’s Messenger say, “No one will suffer any bodily injury and forgive it* without God raising him a degree for it and removing a sin from him.”
Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah transmitted it.
* Literally "give it as sadaqa.”

Mishkat al-Masabih 3480
https://sunnah.com/mishkat:3480

There are also rewards for those who are patient through calamities, such as a parent dealing with a child being hurt or killed.