Cartoons worse than murder??

[Malaikah]

:sl:

I just felt like pointing out something , in light of recent events.

Why doesnt the killing of THOUSANDS of muslims in Iraq, Palestine, etc. spark as much rage in Muslims as a stupid comic??

I mean seriously- there has been internation retaliation to this cartoon, Muslims all over the world are protesting against it. AND YET, when greater crimes (including rape and torture, though mainly murder) are being committed against thousands of our brothers and sisters in these countries by the likes of America and Isreal (i.e. there soldiers), we never see such a reaction of this magnitude. Its really saddening.

Dont get me wrong, im not underestimating the seriousness of these cartoons, i just believe that the situation in certain muslim countries is more serious and worthy of reaction than a cartoon.

:w:

[Prawned]

:sl:
AND YET, when greater crimes (rape, murder, torture) are being committed against thousands of our brothers and sisters in these countries by the likes of America and Isreal,

Just out of curiousity, because I don't know, Where are Americans raping Muslims?

Do you know that some Americans are Muslims?

Or maybe you mean Muslims in America are raping other Muslims who are also in America? I am very confused by your post. What do you think Michael Jackson thinks about all this?

[Malaikah]

sorry if that sounded like a generalisation, i was refering to the Americans in iraq. not specifically all americans, i know that there are muslim americans.

And there were stories that have been circulating about american soldiers raping muslims in iraq, specifically in prisons. sorry i dont have the link. but one such story was posted in this forum.

any, whether there is rape, or american muslims isnt the point of this thread.

Peace.

[Malaikah]

What on earth does micheal jackons have to do with this??

look... i will make my reference more specific for you ok? refer back to my original post.

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[Prawned]

First of all, I'm not really convinced there was any rape of thousands. But there are Muslim Americans serving in the American army. Was it any of them doing the so-called raping?

I suspect whatever story you heard or read had something like "Non-Muslim US Soldiers rape thousands" is that what I am to believe?

Oh and by the way, I only bring up Michael Jackson because he is a pop singer. I'm not really a fan of his music or anytthing. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of him, but I know of him.

Do you like Michael Jackson?

[Malaikah]

look mate.
1. could you please post your replies in one post rather than use so many short ones, it gets annoying.
2. i never said there was raping of thousands, but rather i said that various crimes, including the ones mentioned, were commited against them. but fair enough, i will make another adjustment to my first post for you.
3. Please do not argue this here as it is not the place for it. I did not start the thread for the purpose of disussing the 'greatness' of the american army. if you wish to persue such a debate, please find a more suitable thread.

and by the way, micheal jackon has no relievance to this topic!! just becuase he is a pop singer doesnt mean that his opinion is worthy or whatever. please, if you are trying to increase you post count, this is not the place to do it! you can get warnings for that. please be careful.

[Ghazi]

:sl:

I just felt like pointing out something , in light of recent events.

Why doesnt the killing of THOUSANDS of muslims in Iraq, Palestine, etc. spark as much rage in Muslims as a stupid comic??

I mean seriously- there has been internation retaliation to this cartoon, Muslims all over the world are protesting against it. AND YET, when greater crimes (rape, murder, torture) are being committed against thousands of our brothers and sisters in these countries by the likes of America and Isreal (i.e. there soldiers), we never see such a reaction of this magnitude. Its really saddening.

Dont get me wrong, im not underestimating the seriousness of these cartoons, i just believe that the situation in certain muslim countries is more serious and worthy of reaction than a cartoon.

:w:

Salaam

I see where your coming from sis, The ummah have been a sleep till know, our beloved prophet(pbuh) has been insulted, may allah make this driving force for the ummah to unite.

[SoGladUCame]

This is slightly different than the thread. I'm not muslim just curious for a muslim perspective. I just wondered on this board researching the muslim cartoons from denmark. I'm really confused about this.

Okay, I understand muslims wouldn't like those cartoons, but how does that justify the rioting, and death threats. I also looked it up on wikipedia(online encyclopedia) and there are literally dozens of cartoons printed in muslim newpapers depicting such things as jews eating babies. Now a picture of the Prophet with a bomb on his head, versus a jew eating a baby. It seems there is a double standard going on, as in if someone insults muslims, they storm embassies, but if muslims print a jew eating a baby. Oh well, they're not muslim.

Honestly, that is the way it looks. I've never heard of a jew eating babies, I have no idea where that came from. But I see or hear of Muslim suicide bombers weekly, so I understand the symbolism at least of that one.

Please, explain, because I'm honestly trying not to look badly on muslims, but it is very hard, when people are rioting, boycotting, burning embassies over cartoons. It does seem fanatical.

Thanks, no disrespect intended.

Really, I don't see how a cartoon picture equals death threats.

[Isaac]

The biggest devil today is and present within all communities is the media. and this media is run by an even bigger devil. Fair enough the danes apologised and rightly so, but after seeing all the anger, hurt and demonstrations which it led to why on earth would other europeans countries namingly france and norway want to RE-produce them???? May be to prove their point of freedom of speech. So at the cost of proving there point they dont mind insulting the religion of islam, causing world-wide protest and yes more hatred between different beliefs. And especially at a time when you have potential world war 3 on your hands, new laws and legistlation such as the freedom of speech, race laws and so called anti-terrorist laws. I agree with the sister who posted about the muslims who die day in day out, after a demonstration we forget about it. why are we not outside the britsh embassy day in day out instead of one day, which for most is a day out to london. at the time of the islamic caliphate namingly in the times of the 4 caliphs a muslim women would be able to walk freely without a man even looking at her in the wrong way. why cos we had men of actions and not words. today its the total opposite, but for a few. today we have larger numbers but yet fail to prevnt with our voices the re-production of these insulting images. over 1.7 billion muslims in the world, but only a few voice there concerns or act to protect their deen. we have the wealthiest of resources, nations, men, women, numbers, yet we fail to have a united meida. yet we fail to protect and serve the poor, widows, orphans, mujahideens, build an ifrastcure which we can all work together to. Our lands are ransacked, wealth stolen, rights violated, women left widowed, the enemies of islam violating our holy lands and places of worship, and SOME of our leaders belittleing themselves in their hands. SubhanAllah, i pray and beg that Allah brings this day soon. The day when all muslims will re-unite under the banner of La-Ilaha-IllAllah - Muhammad RasoolAllah.

[SoGladUCame]

The biggest devil today is and present within all communities is the media. and this media is run by an even bigger devil. Fair enough the danes apologised and rightly so, but after seeing all the anger, hurt and demonstrations which it led to why on earth would other europeans countries namingly france and norway want to RE-produce them????

The governments didn't produce them, individual companies within those countries produced them, that's why it doesn't make any sense. They are boycotting denmark, because a company in Denmark did something they didn't like. Same thing in France. And burning Denmark embassies in couple of arab countries.

Anyway, guess the point is do you believe it worth burning buildings and sending death threats out over a cartoon?

[Isaac]

See its that kind of ignorance, disrespect and lack of understanding that caused all this in the first place. look i could sit here and just chat a load of rubbish, but i dont wana spoil the things for the rest of the people using ths forum and the forums credibility. so please if your looking for someone to talk to or belittle go somehwere else, cos i aint in the mood.

[SoGladUCame]

Well, I guess I'll take that as a yes for now. I'll check back later tonight. Honestly, though, I really see the response being way out of balance compared to the insult.

[Isaac]

Well the same could be said about saddam hussein? was it worth the reponse of going in and killing over 150,000 iraqis jsut cos some people thought he has wmds??????????????? the threat was imaginery and was proven to be imaginery before they even went in. as proved by the un amd iaea! so to conclude if there was no insult there would be no reponse. well lets just hope that people have learnd a lesson and that this doesnt happen again for everbodys sake>

[SoGladUCame]

With all due respect that wasn't what we were talking about.

I asked a very straight forward question, that had nothing to do with the US and Iraqi. It had to do with the situation over this cartoon in Denmark.

Basicly is a depiction of the prophet in a negative light worth rioting, and death threats.

[afriend]

Oh no, not another hater.

Is that supposed to be just mere information?

Or are you a hater?

[fluff]

At risk of sounding like another hater...

on another forum at the moment we are trying to answer a question similar to this one.

is it worth such violence killing over a cartoon, when there are so many violent acts beng done 'in the name of Islam' which I am told most moderate muslims find very offensive to their following of a peaceful religion?

is it a case that muslims will defend (or at least not speak against) their brothers and sisters out of loyalty even when they may have different opinions, but are quicker to attack non muslims?

[Uthman]

Greetings and peace fluff,

is it a case that muslims will defend (or at least not speak against) their brothers and sisters out of loyalty even when they may have different opinions, but are quicker to attack non muslims?

Some may. Some may not. I wouldn't paint all muslims with the same brush. At the end of the day, the Qur'an says:

Surah An-Nisah, verse 135:
O ye who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even against your own selves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well acquainted with all that ye do.

[fluff]

I would interpret that to mean shout as loudly against any person who offends Islamic values. So does that mean some of the acts I find offensive are considered less so by the muslims that don't speak out against them?

or is the moderate voice of opposition to fundamentalist violence just not as loud / widely reported in the UK?

(I have to admit I have spoken to very few Muslims who agree or will admit to wanting people beheaded etc. The majority think life is sacred just as I do)

[imaad_udeen]

I think the rioting and raiding and torching of embassies is going too far.

It makes the Ummah look petty and ignorant to the west.

[Malaikah]

salam

No offence or anything- but most people seem to be going OFF TOPIC.

[akulion]

:sl:

I just felt like pointing out something , in light of recent events.

Why doesnt the killing of THOUSANDS of muslims in Iraq, Palestine, etc. spark as much rage in Muslims as a stupid comic??

I mean seriously- there has been internation retaliation to this cartoon, Muslims all over the world are protesting against it. AND YET, when greater crimes (including rape and torture, though mainly murder) are being committed against thousands of our brothers and sisters in these countries by the likes of America and Isreal (i.e. there soldiers), we never see such a reaction of this magnitude. Its really saddening.

Dont get me wrong, im not underestimating the seriousness of these cartoons, i just believe that the situation in certain muslim countries is more serious and worthy of reaction than a cartoon.

:w:

I agree with you sister on this matter.

We are still slowly strting to unite and starting to come out voicing our opinions.

I think the main hesitation over the boycott not being passed over war and such issues is mainly because the governments are hypocritical and get scared by bigger nations. It is indeed sad.

[Malaikah]

salam

yeh bro^^, i think you are correct in what you said about the fear... they just dont seem to have the guts to stand up to countries liek america, and i even wonder if some of the governments want to stand up to them. ive even been informed that countries like suadi arabia and otehrs supply america with food and weapons. its really sickening.

wassalam

[akulion]

The people have always resisted sis

If you read back

There were demonstrations against war

even riots
flag burnings
all sorts of protest activities

its always our govts which let us down by not backing us

this is the 1st time the saudi govt has backed the people!
So alhamdolillah do u know that the losses fo danish companies has now reached in the 100 million pounds?

subhanAllah

[*charisma*]

Greetings

This is slightly different than the thread. I'm not muslim just curious for a muslim perspective. I just wondered on this board researching the muslim cartoons from denmark. I'm really confused about this.

Okay, I understand muslims wouldn't like those cartoons, but how does that justify the rioting, and death threats. I also looked it up on wikipedia(online encyclopedia) and there are literally dozens of cartoons printed in muslim newpapers depicting such things as jews eating babies. Now a picture of the Prophet with a bomb on his head, versus a jew eating a baby. It seems there is a double standard going on, as in if someone insults muslims, they storm embassies, but if muslims print a jew eating a baby. Oh well, they're not muslim.

First of all as muslims we have to protect the name of Islam in every way we can. We have not been put in this world to recieve the worldly pleasures as we depict in the west. If we dont show where we stand religiously, do you think those cartoons will stop? rather they wud keep taking advantage of our "sympathy" and "gratitude" by giving them permission to do so.

Secondly, your comment about the jews eating babies has nothing to do with the religious aspects of this subject, rather it is more of a political statment.
Already this shows your ignorance because Islam has nothing to do with suicide bombings. Suicide bombings occur when there is no other way of retaliating to the enemy. This is more of a defenive strategy rather than religious, do dont compare the two.

Each cartoon has a symbolic message inside, this one clearly insults all muslims, not just every muslim but every race. Unlike other religions, we wud like to keep our name free of the west's false propaganda.

Honestly, that is the way it looks. I've never heard of a jew eating babies, I have no idea where that came from. But I see or hear of Muslim suicide bombers weekly, so I understand the symbolism at least of that one.

shame how you can hear of suicide bombers weekly, but turn your ears away from innocent children being blown up for no apparent reason, or people sleeping in the streets because they have no home to go to.
do you need to hear about a jew eating a baby to believe its true?? OPEN YOUR EYES! they do much worse! they even kick out their own ppl out of the cities! *speaking toward israeli supporters*

Please, explain, because I'm honestly trying not to look badly on muslims, but it is very hard, when people are rioting, boycotting, burning embassies over cartoons. It does seem fanatical.

right cuz we are supposed to hold parties and laugh along with you guys. feel all jolly inside, how bout u print up another one and while youre at it why dont we sip on some wine and discuss books... get real!

its enough they practically ruined life for every muslim, now they are digging our graves. whats next?? well they obviously put their imagination to gud use.

Thanks, no disrespect intended.

none taken

Really, I don't see how a cartoon picture equals death threats.

i dont see why the cartoon was printed out in the first place except to insult muslims, if you can answer that then i wud agree with you.

Regards

[Malaikah]

If you read back

There were demonstrations against war

even riots
flag burnings
all sorts of protest activities

its always our govts which let us down by not backing us

this is the 1st time the saudi govt has backed the people!

:sl:

if there was resistance, i sure never heard of it, or it was just never as wide spread as the resistance is now. its all over the news here in australia. well inshaallah this can lead to greater things

:w:

[akulion]

oh my sis cheese i am shocked you didnthear about the protests over the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and in Palestine!!

They were HUGE - this is nothing compared to them!!

There were million man marches in many countries as well.

The protests lasted a long time and then eventually died down because our governments sat silently (probably hiding under their beds) scared of the US and Isreal but not scared of Allah swt! Astaghfirullah!

[*charisma*]

Greetings

First of all, I'm not really convinced there was any rape of thousands. But there are Muslim Americans serving in the American army. Was it any of them doing the so-called raping?

oh ofcoarse not, why wud we want u to believe that :)
its ok, turn on the news and believe that all muslims are terrorists, do you seriously think the media would want to go ahead and tell people the truth so that they will feel disgusted towards what is really going on??

I suspect whatever story you heard or read had something like "Non-Muslim US Soldiers rape thousands" is that what I am to believe?

i dont think that was the title, and more or less it was a letter i believe from one of the jailed there.

Oh and by the way, I only bring up Michael Jackson because he is a pop singer. I'm not really a fan of his music or anytthing. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of him, but I know of him.

Do you like Michael Jackson?

what does MJ have to do with anything??

peace!

[Malaikah]

:sl:

The protests lasted a long time and then eventually died down because our governments sat silently (probably hiding under their beds) scared of the US and Isreal but not scared of Allah swt! Astaghfirullah!

sorry bro akulion, i dont have the best memory and at the time i was pretty busy too with school stuff so i didnt watch much news, i might recall some stuff but not much. i certainly remember the protests that happened right here in australia regarding the iraq war, but they were by australians in general or all backgrounds and religions, not only muslims in specific.

and thanks sis charsima for your help answering these questions. :)

:w:

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

lol no need to thank me hun :) its expected of me to help the ummah out in any way i can, right?

barak Allah feeki, a great thread mashallah

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

[SoGladUCame]

This is weird that no one will answer my question. Some have said Muslims will defend themselves. Well, what does that mean. Defend could mean anything between, having a discussion to full out war.

I'm just trying to get a feel for the general mindset of the muslim community. I don't know any muslims. I've only met two in my whole life at school. I'm not trying to get in a debate about any heavy issues like the iraq war, or any like that. Just wondering what the generally acceptable response to potraying the prophet in a negative light is.

Thanks. But as no one yet has answered with a straight foward answer, I'm taking that to mean. That alot of rational muslims will endure it as everyone else in the world does, when they are insulted. But the 10% that are more extreme will think it's worth killing over. Sad really, as I'm sure if people are this insulted over cartoons, they will most certainly be insulted regularly, as in every free country in the world, we have to endure things that I consider repugnant daily. But I don't even consider the possiblity of killing someone over it.

My conclusion is if this is the mindset of a segment of muslims, nothing will stop the cultural collision. As the 10% will drag the perception of all Muslims down to the Western cultures.

My feelings on Muslims has gone from no known problems with them in general
Then 911 and intense anger insued
Then I researched the Israeli and palestine conflict, and my opinion of Isreal and palestine dropped. I don't respect the way either side acts in that conflict
Then when Muslim terrorists cut off the heads of NON-MILITARY people in iraq, and I researched for any muslim protest to the acts and found none, my opinion dropped further. I watched them cut the heads off, there is nothing holy in that. If you as an individual agree with that, well, we won't go there. When the prisoners in Iraq where humiliated, well, they protested, but not when civilians got there heads cut off? Now, I see Muslims rioting over a cartoon, and again, It's lowering my opinion of Islam.

I wish my country was completely out of the middle east and never interacted again in that area, including Isreal. But, unfortunately, that is not going to happen. I have the feeling both sides have drawn the line in the sand and are just looking for excuses for the situation to boil over. This cartoon incident is just the most recent example.

Thanks. Hope I'm wrong, I don't think the world needs a World War that will kill billions, but if people get this upset over a cartoon, it's bound to happen.

[Malaikah]

Now, I see Muslims rioting over a cartoon, and again, It's lowering my opinion of Islam.

hi mate, dont feel so let down at the lack of response- it takes time for ppl to read and reply.

Dont judge islam by what you see the muslims doing, and the so called 'muslim nations' doing. the muslims are not perfect and too many of them dont follow the religion properly.

in response to the thing you said about the "Muslim terrorists cut off the heads of NON-MILITARY people in iraq"... well, again just because these people are doing this stuff in the name of islam are muslims, does mean that what they are doing is correct, or compatable with islam does it? no it doesnt. in islam, you are not allowed to attack women, children etc... (sorry i dont recall exactly who cant be attacked, if you are interested let me know and i will find a relavent hadith for you) .

if you want to know about the islam, i recommend you judge it based on the quran and the hadith, not what you see people doing these names in the name of islam. that way, you know you are getting the real picture of what islam really is.

and i dont know if i can get you to see how much these cartoons offend muslims, but i can try. consider this:
1. drawing people is haram (prohibited) in islam. it is a sin.
2. drawing the prophet is haram too- how can you assume that you know what he looks like? no one today knows. so these people are just drawing a pic of some arab looking guy, saying this is the prophet (i know that they are not claiming it to be the real image of him, but it is still very offensive)
3. THE PROPHET WAS NOT A TERRORIST.

i just cant get you too see why it is so offensive that he is drawn like this. the images they printed of him are a total lie. he did not walk around with a bomb in his hat, its just disgusting. Muslims are taught to love the prophet more than any other person, even more than their parents, more than themselves. thats how much respect we have for him. i recommend you follow this link if you wish to find out more about the wonderful nature of the prophet:

http://islamtoday.com/show_sub_secti...3&sub_cat_id=0

sorry if my reply doesnt help much. but i would just like to remind you not too judge islam by the present muslims. dont you realise that if there are muslims out there who are sinning and doing haram stuff in the name of islam, they will be punished by Allah (swt)?? you just cant judge islam by its followers, refer back to the quran and sunnah please.

Peace.

p.s. if you read my first post in this thread, you will see that i have posted my opinion about the response of the muslims to the cartoons.

[SoGladUCame]

in response to the thing you said about the "Muslim terrorists cut off the heads of NON-MILITARY people in iraq"... well, again just because these people are doing this stuff in the name of islam are muslims, does mean that what they are doing is correct, or compatable with islam does it? no it doesnt. in islam, you are not allowed to attack women, children etc... (sorry i dont recall exactly who cant be attacked, if you are interested let me know and i will find a relavent hadith for you) .

My point here was there wasn't even a outcry against such actions in general. So, it was just accepted. Whereas, when the whole abu grave(spelling?) in iraq happened, there was plenty of americans condemning our own governments actions, but the reverse never happens when Muslims do things wrong. That is where the lowering of opinion occurs. I understand that not every muslim is going to cut off peoples heads, but I don't understand why there isn't a immediate condemnation by the overwhelming majority of muslims. Since that doesn't occur, it must mean that muslims in general don't really care about such things, because it wasn't a muslim. That's what strikes me, the lack of condemnation when muslims do bad things from other muslims, but it seems every little thing like the cartoon, peopel will riot. Can you see how the two don't quite equate.

Because believe me when I saw palestinines celebrating the deaths of American Non-Military citizens, and chanting death to america. I read that as death to me. Or when someone burns a flag, that says to me that they hate all in the country that flag represents. And I'm really confused what type of response such actions are thought to have, as when I watched that I really, really, didn't want anything to do with anything islam for sometime.

I really believe Islam needs to get behind a central philosphy, because the argument is always, it's not us it's the radicals. But there is never any condemnation or attempts to stop such things by the "regular" muslims. See how that makes one question the whole of the religion. If a person stands by silently while a crime is commented, then says I didn't do it. Are they any better?


Well, here's how I read the drawing of muslims issue

Okay, your point is that muslims don't believe in the drawing of muslims, especially the prophet, but these drawing were published in non-muslim controlled countries, where similiar forms of bad taste cartoons are produced regularly. Here in the U.S. a supposed artist a few years back had a display of the the cross with **** on it. Now, that offended, millions of U.S. citizens and Millions around the world, but no one burned embassies. I'm sorry but if the standard is that there can be no critism of Islam, or crude depictions, it just won't work in western countries. The whole basis of the most democratic nations is the free expression of ideas, no matter how off-base they may be. As long as they don't promote violence. So, saying that Islam must be an exception to that rule, doesn't work with a system specificlly designed to protect the fringe ideas.

Thus since in any western country, freedom to disparage the pillars of that particular society is essential to the ideology. I can't see how a Religion that doesn't condone any critism will ever be able to function. Catholics get made fun of all the time as child molesters all the time, because a few priest did such things. They don't riot.

I for example will not accept that I can't draw a cartoon of anything I please. Muslims seem to want it to be illegal to do so, because they don't believe it's right. But I don't believe in the things Muslims do. So, why should I be limited in my expression. See, in order to do what they're asking freedom of speech would need to be eliminated. That will not go over well.

So, I guess, my conclusion is Islam isn't compatible within Western Culture. But, for some reason muslims move to countries, that don't mix with there religion, and then demand the laws be changed in dramatic ways.

If you can explain how freedom of speech and expression, can be maintained within a muslim framework. Then it could work, but the whole basis, of the muslim argument is that one can't criticize the prophet, but every other religion gets criticized daily, and learns to endure such things. The pope, which is supposed to be a direct link to God in the Catholic religion is always ridiculed. Jesus, has been depicted in so many bad ways it's beyond count. But those religions don't threaten to kill people over it.

Thanks.

[sis_fisabil'Allah]

This is slightly different than the thread. I'm not muslim just curious for a muslim perspective. I just wondered on this board researching the muslim cartoons from denmark. I'm really confused about this.

Okay, I understand muslims wouldn't like those cartoons, but how does that justify the rioting, and death threats. I also looked it up on wikipedia(online encyclopedia) and there are literally dozens of cartoons printed in muslim newpapers depicting such things as jews eating babies. Now a picture of the Prophet with a bomb on his head, versus a jew eating a baby. It seems there is a double standard going on, as in if someone insults muslims, they storm embassies, but if muslims print a jew eating a baby. Oh well, they're not muslim.

Honestly, that is the way it looks. I've never heard of a jew eating babies, I have no idea where that came from. But I see or hear of Muslim suicide bombers weekly, so I understand the symbolism at least of that one.

Please, explain, because I'm honestly trying not to look badly on muslims, but it is very hard, when people are rioting, boycotting, burning embassies over cartoons. It does seem fanatical.

Thanks, no disrespect intended.

Really, I don't see how a cartoon picture equals death threats.

peace be uopn u...
i respect da fact that ur triying 2 understand bth perspectives, but whilst doing so i think i may need 2 point across the importance of understanding that ISLAM... and MUSLIMS are 2 completeley different thing.
i myself is aginst the threatening as i dnt think that its the brightest thing 2 do by stooping 2 der level... yeah! i guess it is easier said dan done in a situation lyk dis bt u must understand dat these are the actions of muslims. BUT its nt the teachings of Islam! i attended a protest in London aginst dis simply becoz it was a "peacful" protest without any flags being burnt or any threatens being made!
this is nt da 1st tym dat sum1 has insulted our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) it also actually happened whilst Muhammed (s.a.w) was alive bt da main question is how did he deal with it??? He made du'a (supplication) 4 thier children begging Almighty Allah (God), 2 mke them belivers and guide them into Islam. Our Prophets own neighbour used curse and abuse him bt he still chose 2 be the peacful maker and the riteous one (of chourse) and helped them nd looked out 4 dem regardless of how spikfull they wer.
hopefully u have gt a clearer perspective and understandin of Islam and the way Muslims are taught to act! :thankyou:

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

This is weird that no one will answer my question.

Perhaps I can be of some assistance.

Some have said Muslims will defend themselves. Well, what does that mean. Defend could mean anything between, having a discussion to full out war.

In the context of this discussion we are speaking of protest and peaceful demonstration. The use of violence in response to such cartoons is abhorrent and an equally foul insult to Islam.

I'm just trying to get a feel for the general mindset of the muslim community. I don't know any muslims. I've only met two in my whole life at school. I'm not trying to get in a debate about any heavy issues like the iraq war, or any like that. Just wondering what the generally acceptable response to potraying the prophet in a negative light is.

The reaction you have witnessed is related to what these caricatures really signify. Muslims feel that there has been an on-going campaign undertaken by many elements within the western media to malign and demonize Islam. Islam and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh has been repeatedly attacked and at a time when we need to reach out and increase our understanding of different minority groups we find that instead misconceptions and slanderous comments are being propagated. When these cartoons were published, the Muslim community in Denmark and other western countries felt that the percieved attack on Islam had now become obvious. The cartoons represented a malicious attempt to malign Islam and incite more hatred towards the Muslim community. This is why the Muslims felt that they needed to voice loud protest and cause the world to realize that we cannot continue to propagate hatred towards others if we intend to promote peace.

I think that many peaceful protests were successful in conveying this message.

Thanks. But as no one yet has answered with a straight foward answer, I'm taking that to mean. That alot of rational muslims will endure it as everyone else in the world does, when they are insulted. But the 10% that are more extreme will think it's worth killing over. Sad really, as I'm sure if people are this insulted over cartoons, they will most certainly be insulted regularly, as in every free country in the world, we have to endure things that I consider repugnant daily. But I don't even consider the possiblity of killing someone over it.

Of course its not worth killing someone over and we have many religious leaders in our community who have condemned the violence that arose in response to this. Yet it is still only natural that a minority group will protest if their religion is unfairly targeted, especially in a time when there is already so much hatred and already so many misconceptions about Islam.

My conclusion is if this is the mindset of a segment of muslims, nothing will stop the cultural collision.

I disagree. Respect, tolerance and education ourselves about eachother can and will stop a confrontation.

Then when Muslim terrorists cut off the heads of NON-MILITARY people in iraq, and I researched for any muslim protest to the acts and found none, my opinion dropped further.

This is nonsense. The Muslim leaders voiced unconditional condemnation of such atrocities. Clearly you have not done your research properly:
http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...sub_cat_id=673
http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...sub_cat_id=675
http://islamonline.net/livedialogue/...GuestID=AmEEc9
http://www.islam-online.net/English/...rticle08.shtml
http://www.islam-online.net/English/...rticle03.shtml
And about the recent violent responses:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4676524.stm

I don't have a problem if you come here to familiarize yourself with the Muslim response to such issues, but please don't draw conclusions before conducting proper research. Thanks.

In addition, please see my previous posts along a similar theme:
http://www.islamicboard.com/175721-post20.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/176321-post27.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/175722-post57.html

Warm Regards

[fluff]

In support of the question asker, I have to say it is becoming increasingly difficult to find news coverage of muslims condemning the actions of other muslims :unhappy:
maybe not so much online, but I have been totting up the column inches in my local papers and they would have you believe the whole world was behind those protests!

I cannot stress enough the importance of talking to real people about these issues instead of believing the propaganda!

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

In support of the question asker, I have to say it is becoming increasingly difficult to find news coverage of muslims condemning the actions of other muslims :unhappy:

Which supports my assertion here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/175722-post57.html

[Prawned]

I have to say it is becoming increasingly difficult to find news coverage of muslims condemning the actions of other muslims

You don't say?


(Where's that thread about irony)

[Smok]

Please explain me that situation.
In Iraq terrorists often make attack in mosques or near mosques. So many mosques were destroyed, many people were killed during prayers and many Qurans were burned in explosions.
But muslims don't react.
Danish newspaper printed caricatures of Muhammad and we have huge scandal and disturbance.
So tell me if it is allowed to burn Quran, blow mosques and kill praying people?
Why there were no protests agains terrorists blowing up Qurans but there were huge protests when US soldiers destroyed Quran in Guantanamo.
Please tell me.
I think that we have double standarts here.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Please explain me that situation.
In Iraq terrorists often make attack in mosques or near mosques. So many mosques were destroyed, many people were killed during prayers and many Qurans were burned in explosions.
But muslims don't react.
Danish newspaper printed caricatures of Muhammad and we have huge scandal and disturbance.
So tell me if it is allowed to burn Quran, blow mosques and kill praying people?
Why there were no protests agains terrorists blowing up Qurans but there were huge protests when US soldiers destroyed Quran in Guantanamo.
Please tell me.
I think that we have double standarts here.

Muslim scholars have condemned these terrorist acts completely. Please see the links I posted in my first post in this thread. Unfortunately the media does not convety an accurate representation of Muslim responses.

Regards

[Smok]

But I don't write about opinions of "wise men". I ask why normal muslims don't make protests agains destroying Quran and mosques by other muslims.
I didn't see any demonstration agains terrorists who blow up Qurans.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

But I don't write about opinions of "wise men".

These scholars I quote from represent the leaders in the Muslim community and have the support of the Muslims. So these condemnations have the weight of the full Muslim community.

If you're asking why Muslims don't hold demonstrations about this its because the terrorists aren't acting on behalf of any government nor are they under the authority of any government. Demonstrating in such a situation doesn't make sense. It only works when people want to put pressure on a government.

[Smok]

But in Eurrope newspapers are indenpendent and goverment can do nothing. So blaming european goverments has no sense. It is like blaming car manufacturer because of accident caused by too high speed on city street.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

But in Eurrope newspapers are indenpendent and goverment can do nothing. So blaming european goverments has no sense.

This is a fair point to raise in response but Muslims who protested did so because they felt that the government should do something. Especially since the prime minister initially refused to meet Muslim diplomats to discuss the potential outrage that would arise from it, but only after pressure increased from protests and the boycotts did he meet with them. The Muslims who protested did so because they felt that this was inciting hatred which should be stopped by the government.

Regards

[Smok]

So goverments in muslim countries and muslim clerics should say that in Europe goverment can do absolutely nothing. And even if politicals don't want to meet with protesters they do it because newspapers are indenpendent and they can't interfere in that kind of things.

Also look.
Hamas won in Palestine.
Iran wants to build nuclear weapon and Europe wanted to not interfere. Why? Because for Europe it is better to have counterweight for Israel in that part of world. And suddenly someone takes old pictures printed by small newspaper 4 months ago and makes big conflict between Europe and muslims. Now it is very probably that Europe will be against Iran and will not stop USA or Israeli attack on Iran.
So who is the winner?
Lets be honest. Muslims ware acting stupid because they are doing what Israel wanted. They made conflict with Europe and now there is almost no hope to avoid conlict with Iran. Europe was supporting Iran (that was "back door support").
Israel played the music and muslims are dancing now just like Jews wanted.
Conflict with Europe - no european support for Iran - Israeli bombers are ready to action.
You should stop this stupid disturbance and try to improve relations with Europe. Can't You see that You were tricked? You are acting against yourselfes! Stop this conflict because Israel and USA are the only winners here!

[SoGladUCame]

Also look.
Hamas won in Palestine.
Iran wants to build nuclear weapon and Europe wanted to not interfere. Why? Because for Europe it is better to have counterweight for Israel in that part of world. And suddenly someone takes old pictures printed by small newspaper 4 months ago and makes big conflict between Europe and muslims. Now it is very probably that Europe will be against Iran and will not stop USA or Israeli attack on Iran.
So who is the winner?
Lets be honest. Muslims ware acting stupid because they are doing what Israel wanted. They made conflict with Europe and now there is almost no hope to avoid conlict with Iran. Europe was supporting Iran (that was "back door support").
Israel played the music and muslims are dancing now just like Jews wanted.
Conflict with Europe - no european support for Iran - Israeli bombers are ready to action.
You should stop this stupid disturbance and try to improve relations with Europe. Can't You see that You were tricked? You are acting against yourselfes! Stop this conflict because Israel and USA are the only winners here!

How's does this relate to the US? I live in the US, and believe me the last thing this country needs is another war. Even if we did, our troop levels are already low, and it wouldn't make any sense militarily to want a war with Iran, now. This cartoon thing is a European issue, the US didn't tell the danish or any other country to publish those cartoons. I don't think Israel did either. I think you're being a bit paranoid.:?

[V_A_S_H_19]

Assalamu Alaikum

This is for everyone to read.



I dont know how people can believe everything they hear on the news, or read on the internet an papers, me personally i havent heard any stories about americans raping muslims, let alone thousand of rapings. A lot of American Muslims are serving today in the U S Military and i'm one of them.

There is a lot of stories going around about Americans soldiers doing horrible things in Iraq and every where they go i cannot disprove every story you hear about but people have to understand that when stories go around they tend to get twisted, a story goes around about one person getting shot when that stories get to the tenth person telling it the number of dead is going from one to ten.

My point is that the media twist things to make it seem a lot worser than it really is.

Every one is saying that american soldiers are killing so many innocent Iraqis, it true that innocent people died as the result of Us military engagement with terrorist forces in Iraq but the majority of innocent death in Iraq I can safely say that it the directly result of Terrorist actions. And its sad to see these terrorist make videos and claims that their actions is for the better good of islam and that they are fighting for all muslims.

Islam is a peaceful religion and teaches peace insted of violence, and yet every on sit by and completely ignore the fact that theses people calaming to be muslim paints a bad pictur for all muslim. They bring shame to all muslims all around the world.

I'm one HUNDRED percent againt the drawings of The Prophet (Mohammed) Peace be upon him, as a terrorist. and i think something needs to be done but i dont think making threats and writing posters saying Destroy ppl talking bad or making fun of Islam, is the best approach to the problem, creating violents protest and destroying property is not doing any good it just bringing a bad name to Islam and Muslims everywhere.

How's does this relate to the US? I live in the US, and believe me the last thing this country needs is another war. Even if we did, our troop levels are already low, and it wouldn't make any sense militarily to want a war with Iran, now. This cartoon thing is a European issue, the US didn't tell the danish or any other country to publish those cartoons. I don't think Israel did either. I think you're being a bit paranoid.:?

As far as Iran and the us military or any country including Isreal wanting to war with Iran i really dont think its going to happen, Iran provoke Isreal concern when the statement that Isreal should be wipe of the face of the earth. Islam teaches tollerance for other religion and different culture so making a statement like that and not appolizing for it even to Isreal is against every Islam stands for. The us doesnt need another war not with Iran or anyone else. it really doesnt make sence. the only reason why every one is so concern about Iran nuclear program is because there is doubt on the true purpose of their nuclear program. Dont you think is a cause to be worry when a country leader say another country should be wipe of the map and then start up its nucler program. let just say for the sake of arguement that Iran do develop weapons and used it against Isreal what gonna happen to Palestine has anyone thought about that.

Look as far as the cartoon goes it wrong and insulting to Islam and Muslim but in times like this where people believe the media and see terrorist actions a generalize it as the actions of all Muslims, we need to go about sloving the problem a different way instead of doing what false media broadcast has lead everyone to expect of Mulisms. We need people to step up and show the true and peaceful teachings of Islam.


P.S If i've offended anyone i did't mean to.:)

Peace

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

So goverments in muslim countries and muslim clerics should say that in Europe goverment can do absolutely nothing.

They can do something; they can take steps to combat hatred in society and work to integrate minority groups as opposed to allowing them to become the targets of slander.

Muslims are protesting because they feel that the governments can and should do something.

[Issa]

First of all, I'm not really convinced there was any rape of thousands. But there are Muslim Americans serving in the American army. Was it any of them doing the so-called raping?

I suspect whatever story you heard or read had something like "Non-Muslim US Soldiers rape thousands" is that what I am to believe?

Oh and by the way, I only bring up Michael Jackson because he is a pop singer. I'm not really a fan of his music or anytthing. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of him, but I know of him.

Do you like Michael Jackson?

Salaam,

Are you really going to say that rape cannot occur because they are American soldiers who may be doing the raping? Especially after that incident that happened with the woman soldier (and men as well)? She was found guilty of torturing (and rape) of p.o.w's. It's possible. I understand wanting to know details but to be skeptical about it just because it is reported by a muslimah... come on, then you couldn't believe anything anyone had to say anywhere. Media has an agenda too. All the stuff about "the big bad muslim" isn't true, but alot of people seem to listen. Are you one of them, sir?
Michael Jackson is a talented musician... I won't make any comments on his personal life;D .

[pegcityone]

If you're asking why Muslims don't hold demonstrations about this its because the terrorists aren't acting on behalf of any government nor are they under the authority of any government. Demonstrating in such a situation doesn't make sense. It only works when people want to put pressure on a government.

I disagree. There are demonstrations against/for private corporations, idealogues and even people! Look at the Michael Jackson trial, the Enron scandal, and gay marriage rallies in Canada for examples.

I think Muslim demonstrations against terror are EXACTLY what is needed. They make good news reel, and in Western society, our Muslim population direly needs good media exposure.

[mujahedeen2087]

Salaam

I see where your coming from sis, The ummah have been a sleep till know, our beloved prophet(pbuh) has been insulted, may allah make this driving force for the ummah to unite.

you said it brother, Allah akbar
who else will unite for the cause to unify the ummah?

[HeiGou]

These scholars I quote from represent the leaders in the Muslim community and have the support of the Muslims. So these condemnations have the weight of the full Muslim community.

If you're asking why Muslims don't hold demonstrations about this its because the terrorists aren't acting on behalf of any government nor are they under the authority of any government. Demonstrating in such a situation doesn't make sense. It only works when people want to put pressure on a government.

I suspect the Muslim community is a lot more divided that you give it credit for. I doubt that there has ever been a gathering of scholars that represents all Muslims since, well, Ali's death perhaps? But that is not really important. I doubt any mainstream Islamic leader supports such attacks.

What is important is to point out that when the Iraqi terrorists blew up a hotel in Jordan, people did come out on the streets and protested. Those terrorists were not acting on behalf of any government. They were not under the authority of any government. But the Sunni Jordanians felt a need to express their outrage at an act by Sunnis (under the command of a Jordanian) that killed Sunnis. Why did it make sense to them to do that?

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hello pegcityone,
Welcome to Load-Islam.

I disagree. There are demonstrations against/for private corporations, idealogues and even people! Look at the Michael Jackson trial, the Enron scandal, and gay marriage rallies in Canada for examples.

These are all examples of putting pressure on governments or corporations. Neither applies in the Muslim demonstrations you suggest. Muslims already have gatherings in western countries of tens of thousands of attendees where the religious leaders condemn these terrorist actions, yet these events recieve no media coverage. Why would demonstartions be any different?

Hello HeiGou,

I suspect the Muslim community is a lot more divided that you give it credit for.

Since you are not part of the Muslim community, your conjecture in this matter is meaningless. Read the links I provided and you will find out exactly who those people who are voicing condemnations.

But the Sunni Jordanians felt a need to express their outrage at an act by Sunnis (under the command of a Jordanian) that killed Sunnis. Why did it make sense to them to do that?

The demonstration represents the sentiments of the Jordanian people.

But as I've explained earlier, demonstrations have more significance when they are done to put pressure on governments or corporations.
Regards

[HeiGou]

The demonstration represents the sentiments of the Jordanian people.

But as I've explained earlier, demonstrations have more significance when they are done to put pressure on governments or corporations.
Regards

Sure. The Jordanians were opposed to attacks on Sunni Muslims in Jordan. And they protested. I agree demostrations have more significance when directed at governments, but they are sometimes directed at organisations and they are not meaningless when they happen.

It is just a shame more Jordanians did not protest earlier.

[Ken Nielsen]

IMO this whole episode with the Mohammad cartoons is the best thing to happen to the West in many years. It's brought into sharp focus the differences between the cultures. Freedom of speak and freedom of the press are cornerstones of the Free World. For me the most amazing element is not the Muslim reaction but the West's reaction. This has been stronger and more resolute than I would have imagined. There's nothing like an attack on fundamental beliefs to make one question those beliefs; and ultimately come out at the other end with a stronger conviction. This is also coming after the riots in France - hopefully Europe will connect the dots and see the bigger picture here.

The other interesting point with these cartoons is that it's getting more and
more difficult to dismiss the violence carried out by Muslims as the results of religious extremists. The violence and threats are so widespread that it's difficult to come to any other conclusion other than there is a significant
proportion (say ~35%) of Muslims who would at the very least support violence in the name of Islam. And there is another smaller proportion (~say 5%) that's willing to carry out violent acts in the name of Islam.

Any thoughts?

[fluff]

you said it brother, Allah akbar
who else will unite for the cause to unify the ummah?

am I allowed to join in? :?

[fluff]

Freedom of speak and freedom of the press are cornerstones of the Free World.

This is also coming after the riots in France - hopefully Europe will connect the dots and see the bigger picture here.

The other interesting point with these cartoons is that it's getting more and
more difficult to dismiss the violence carried out by Muslims as the results of religious extremists.


Any thoughts?

my thoughts are:
it is becoming increasingly obvious a 'multicultural society' is not for everyone.

when people come to a new culture, they are often victimised due to the ignorance of the 'natives'

..the natives see no reason to change their ways because some new people arrive, just as one would not wish to repaint ones kitchen because a houseguest doesn't like the colour.

I know for sure in the UK many asians, africans, even other europeans are treated like dirt simply for being from somewhere else, for being different, because the british feel they are having to change to accomodate the new arrivals and are bitter about this.

More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve. Unless someone thinks of something soon, it's all going to go very wrong indeed.

Personally, I am terrified, and am looking for new ways to colonize the moon!

[PAPA LAZAROU]

I would prefer to think that the integration of cultures, as such in Britain today, would be more analagous to the re-aranging of the pots and the kettles, and a certain amout of the pot calling the kettle black is quite understandable.
I fear though that the muslim need for non integration with the locals doesnt help for a harmonious "boiling pot" of cultures.

[Ken Nielsen]

"More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve."

Foul treatment is available anywhere and everywhere in the world. If you are going to be an immigrant, you must have trust that you are directed in your life and are able to be a success because of your faith, no matter where you are, and no matter what the circumstances. That is the way I look at it anyway.

Ken

[- Qatada -]

"More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve."

Foul treatment is available anywhere and everywhere in the world. If you are going to be an immigrant, you must have trust that you are directed in your life and are able to be a success because of your faith, no matter where you are, and no matter what the circumstances. That is the way I look at it anyway.

Ken

I really like that because thats exactly like a strong muslim believer does. :)


A quote from a famous scholar:


"What can my enemies do to me?

I have my paradise and my garden in my heart, wherever I journey it's there with me, never depart from me.

My imprisonment is seclusion,

my murder is martyrdom

and my expulsion from my homeland is tourism."

(Shaykh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah, Raheematullah)


And most importantly, in the Qur'an:

Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what God has decreed for us: He is our protector": and on God let the Believers put their trust. Say: "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that God will send his punishment from Himself, or by our hands. So wait (expectant); we too will wait with you." (Qur'an 9:49-52)


Peace.

[fluff]

"More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve."

Foul treatment is available anywhere and everywhere in the world. If you are going to be an immigrant, you must have trust that you are directed in your life and are able to be a success because of your faith, no matter where you are, and no matter what the circumstances. That is the way I look at it anyway.

Ken

I think similar, whcih is why I object to people wanting to make MY society change for newcomers (my govt is the ones who do this, it creates contempt)

(is there a mosque in Portland btw? I lived there a while years ago and never saw one)

[Ken Nielsen]

"(is there a mosque in Portland btw? I lived there a while years ago and never saw one)"

I did a search, here is the main story that indicates that there indeed is a mosque in Southeast Portland:


PORTLAND - ABC News reports the FBI is investigating possible al Qaeda terror cells in several major U.S. cities, including Portland.
Agents are reportedly focusing on New York, Boston, Minneapolis, Houston, Detroit, Miami, Buffalo, Seattle and Portland.

The FBI is particularly interested in several dozen U.S. citizens believed to have trained in al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan during the late 90s. The news has piqued interest in Oregon as questions arise about certain members of a mosque in southwest Portland.

First there was the arrest last week of Mohamed Abdirahman Kariye, a leader of the mosque the Islamic Center of Portland.

Authorities said Kariye was discovered at Portland International Airport with a one way ticket, several thousand dollars in cash and a suitcase with traces of TNT inside. His fellow mosque members say there is no way he is a terrorist or even someone with terrorist ties.

However, a court document shows that in 1992, Kariye was one of five board of directors for a charity called the Global Relief Foundation. He is listed as Muhamed Abdirahman, a variation of one the several names he's used in the past.

Last December, the charity was shut down by federal authorities, and it's being investigated for possibly funding al Qaeda's terrorist activities.

There is also Fareed Adlouni, another Portland resident and a member of the same southwest Portland mosque.

He has not been charged, but his name surfaces on court documents as well.

A 1996 fax from Osama bin Laden's personal secretary, Wadih el Hage, asks Adlouni and other brothers at the Islamic Center of Portland for donations to an organization called "Help Africa People."

Earlier that year, el Hage sent a fax to a friend in Texas, asking him to transfer $1,000 to Adlouni's U.S. Bank account in Beaverton.

El Hage is serving a life sentence for his role in the U.S. embassy bombings in Africa that killed over 250 people.

A Lake Oswego Rotary group invited Adlouni and other members of his mosque to speak at one of their meetings last year to share their views on the September 11 attacks.

“The first thing that annoyed people was his refusal to stand and salute the flag,” Rotary member Phil Engstrom said. “We begin our meetings with a flag salute and that tipped people off to what they might expect.”

Engstrom says after a brief introduction about Islam, Adlouni went on to point out there was no direct proof Osama bin Laden was behind the September 11 attacks.

Engstrom says Adlouni also criticized U.S. policy in the Middle East, blaming American sanctions for the lack of food and death of a million children in Iraq.

“It was indeed shocking to the whole club, I think,” Engstrom said. “The reaction was quite uniform in one respect--that we didn't like what we heard.”"

[fluff]

typical ;)

[Issa]

See its that kind of ignorance, disrespect and lack of understanding that caused all this in the first place. look i could sit here and just chat a load of rubbish, but i dont wana spoil the things for the rest of the people using ths forum and the forums credibility. so please if your looking for someone to talk to or belittle go somehwere else, cos i aint in the mood.

As-salamu Alaykum Brother,

I don't know if I would call her response ignorant. The way I read it sounds as if she is saying that the reproduction of the cartoons wasn't necessarily allowed by the government of that country. I know that here in the U.S.( because of the constitution) certain magazines and news papers are able to write things that are morally wrong, anti-government, racist, etc. Alot of us here don't agree and the government might not agree either, but they can't step in because of freedom of speech. I think she might of been just trying to explain that point. :w: :sister:

[Smok]

I don't say that USA wants war. But I think they are prepared for precision strike on Iran. And conflict Europe-muslims is good only for USA and Israel.

[fredbear]

Perhaps I can be of some assistance.

The reaction you have witnessed is related to what these caricatures really signify. Muslims feel that there has been an on-going campaign undertaken by many elements within the western media to malign and demonize Islam. Islam and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh has been repeatedly attacked and at a time when we need to reach out and increase our understanding of different minority groups we find that instead misconceptions and slanderous comments are being propagated. When these cartoons were published, the Muslim community in Denmark and other western countries felt that the percieved attack on Islam had now become obvious. The cartoons represented a malicious attempt to malign Islam and incite more hatred towards the Muslim community. This is why the Muslims felt that they needed to voice loud protest and cause the world to realize that we cannot continue to propagate hatred towards others if we intend to promote peace.

First, let me thank you for your kind words of greeting, and the civility of your replies to me thus far. If all people of religion we so tolerant, the world would be a better place.

However, the most effective demonization if Islam, in my and many members of my culture's minds, is done by Muslims themselves. London and Madrid bombings. Disproportionate outbursts at silly little drawings. The list of apparantly deranged behaviour is getting longer all the time. And moderate Muslims seem to be unable to reign in the more fanatical elements of their religion. If I was a moderate muslim, I would not cease the denunciation of these acts of depravity until they stopped, for they tarnish your religion almost beyone hope in the minds now of many.

I think that many peaceful protests were successful in conveying this message.

I disagree. Many peaceful protests showed that, while many didn't fly into murderous rioting, a silly picture in a newspaper nevertheless seems to offend Muslims more than mass bombings done in the name of Islam. Letters to the editor, perhaps, or reasoned discourse in forums like this by people such as yourself, for example, are more appropriate outlets for your greviences.

Again, thank you. Wasaalam.

[aljawaad]

However, the most effective demonization if Islam, in my and many members of my culture's minds, is done by Muslims themselves. London and Madrid bombings.

Why do you people always associate these acts to Islam and Muslims?Nuclear weaons-Muslims, Suicide bombing-muslims, terrorists-muslims. Enough is enough.
This doesn not mean, that if these acts has been done by a bunch of people whose name are Abdullah or Muhammad, they are Muslims. They can have Muslim names but they must not neccessarily be Muslims. Do you know the meaning of Muslims? Muslims are those who have submited themselves to the only God;i.e Allah.
Some of these people are just using the name of Islam for their terrorists acts. Besides the medias controlled by Kuffars are seizing these opportunities to opportunities to throw mud at Muslims and Islam coz they dont want us. They are afraid of Islam. They are afraid of the fact htat Islam is the fastest growing religion.

[fredbear]

[QUOTE=aljawaad;179681

Why do you people always associate these acts to Islam and Muslims?[/QUOTE]
Ummm lets see now.....because these acts were perpetrated by people who call themselves Muslims, who comit these atrocities in the name of Islam? Maybe that has something to do with it? Why aren't you out protesting these despicable acts? They tarnish the name of Islam, almost beyound the point of redemption in the minds of many.

[HeiGou]

Why do you people always associate these acts to Islam and Muslims?Nuclear weaons-Muslims, Suicide bombing-muslims, terrorists-muslims. Enough is enough.
This doesn not mean, that if these acts has been done by a bunch of people whose name are Abdullah or Muhammad, they are Muslims. They can have Muslim names but they must not neccessarily be Muslims. Do you know the meaning of Muslims? Muslims are those who have submited themselves to the only God;i.e Allah.
Some of these people are just using the name of Islam for their terrorists acts. Besides the medias controlled by Kuffars are seizing these opportunities to opportunities to throw mud at Muslims and Islam coz they dont want us. They are afraid of Islam. They are afraid of the fact htat Islam is the fastest growing religion.

You may not think those people were Muslims. You may convince me that they were not Muslims and so I may not think they were Muslims. But the suicide bombers left video tapes explaining what they did. They thought they were Muslims.

Some people are not just using the name "Muslim", they are trying to live a pious, upright, God-fearing life. Which has taken some of them into very bad acts indeed. Suicide bombings. Beheadings of schoolgirls in Indonesia. Even worse things in Algeria. Islam is not just an excuse, it is the motivation and the driving force. If you want to insist that this is not real Islam I am behind you one hundred percent. But you cannot deny that they think it is real Islam. Even we all agree they have not understood Islam properly and they are a tiny minority (which they are) it still remains true that a tiny minority has this particular understanding of Islam and that has driven them to kill.

With what should the kaffir media associate them? What other term is there?

[fluff]

With what should the kaffir media associate them? What other term is there?

I would like to see them use more careful words, 'terrorist claiming to be muslim' etc, since it is not the media's place to judge if or how good someone follows a religion they proclaim they are part of.

It would also be nice to see more evidence, like what part of the scripture have these people taken as inspiriation for their acts, and why others think this may have been a misguided interpretation.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

First, let me thank you for your kind words of greeting, and the civility of your replies to me thus far. If all people of religion we so tolerant, the world would be a better place.

Thank you for this respectful dialogue.

However, the most effective demonization if Islam, in my and many members of my culture's minds, is done by Muslims themselves.

If one looks at the global situation today carefully, they will see that these actions have very little to do with Islam. Terrorists find easy support in the economically and politically disenfrachised citizens of many third world countries who see many agressions being committed against Muslims while the super powers of the world turn a blind eye. The west repeatedly underestimates the significance of many issues in creating anti-western sentiment across the world. Atrocites such as Abu Ghraib, or ignoring the acts of agression being committed against Muslims in many place that I listed earlier, these all contribute to the situation. The response you saw about the cartoon was merely the result of a build up of anger being finally triggered.

So the issue here is not about Islam's teachings, but about a growing crisis in many third world countries across the globe.

Some may argue that it is the nature of the media, but Muslims will naturally find it unfair when there are hundreds of scholars condemning acts of terror in one location and one person calling for acts of terror in another, and the media chooses to focus on the latter because it makes a more interesting story.

The list of apparantly deranged behaviour is getting longer all the time.

Because the list of the percieved injustices is likewise getting longer.

If I was a moderate muslim, I would not cease the denunciation of these acts of depravity until they stopped, for they tarnish your religion almost beyone hope in the minds now of many.

We have not and will never cease the denunciation of these acts of depravity and this is what all our scholars have said, yet naturally little of that comes through in the media to the wider western audience.

Thanks once again for your post.

[fredbear]

Ahh, my brother. You are a breath of fresh air. I would love to be a spectator in a debate between yourself and some of your Muslim brethren here. Participants in the 'New Mujhaideen Pics' for example, or mizan_aliashraf. There are those on this board who seem to think that it is acceptable to comit acts of violence in the name of Islam, and to take pleasure in doing so.

You are among the very few here that give me hope that there can be meaningful dialogue between our two cultures. I hope and trust that your voice is not drowned out.

wasalam

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hi fedbear,
Thanks once again for your kind words.

To the best of my knowledge, the majority of Muslims on this forum share very similar views to mine. If you would like my comments in a particular thread, please feel free to send me the link.

Regards

[V_A_S_H_19]

I don't say that USA wants war. But I think they are prepared for precision strike on Iran. And conflict Europe-muslims is good only for USA and Israel.

I disagree brother I think if anyone is preparing to strike Iran its not the US is Isreal. I dont think the US will even put it self in that position it will be a huge blowed and People in the US will not approve of it. i dont think the idea is even going to make through congress.


:)

[Christian_dove]

More and more immigrants are reacting violently to the foul treatment they recieve. Unless someone thinks of something soon, it's all going to go very wrong indeed.

Personally, I am terrified, and am looking for new ways to colonize the moon!

I think you are exagerating a lot. Things ain't that bad, at least not everywhere. The only two countries that are "lost" are France and Spain, and to be honest, we didn't like them that much anyway, did we? :)

[j4763]

What I don’t understand is why it is ok to paint all the Danish with the same brush.
What I mean is when the 7/7 bombings happened in London I never felt that the bombers represented all Muslims, There was no boycott of Muslims. No mass protest against Muslims (Although there were a few idiots who attacked Muslims because of the event).

It just seems a little hypocritical to call a boycott of Denmark because of a few people did something wrong. Would you think it was ok to boycott Muslims because they did something wrong, hope you know what I mean.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

What I don’t understand is why it is ok to paint all the Danish with the same brush.

Why do countries place sanctions on others when they wish to exert pressure on the government?

[Christian_dove]

The riots had nothing to do with the cartoons. They just used it as an excuse. Both the danish and the norwegian newspapers apologised and still it just continues. Now we even know that the cartoons were printed in Egypt a long time ago with abolutely no reaction from muslims there. Obviously someone is using this story for what it's worth..

[Hisbul_Aziz]

look mate.
1. could you please post your replies in one post rather than use so many short ones, it gets annoying.
2. i never said there was raping of thousands, but rather i said that various crimes, including the ones mentioned, were commited against them. but fair enough, i will make another adjustment to my first post for you.
3. Please do not argue this here as it is not the place for it. I did not start the thread for the purpose of disussing the 'greatness' of the american army. if you wish to persue such a debate, please find a more suitable thread.

and by the way, micheal jackon has no relievance to this topic!! just becuase he is a pop singer doesnt mean that his opinion is worthy or whatever. please, if you are trying to increase you post count, this is not the place to do it! you can get warnings for that. please be careful.

some1 is really pissed off :grumbling:grumbling:grumbling:grumbling:grumbling :grumbling:grumbling:grumbling:grumbling:grumbling :grumbling

[abdul Majid]

Well Let Me Say ......''are Cartoons Worse Than Murder''.......they Sure Are, But By The Way Once You Disrespect The Prophet Of Islam, Thats Not A ''cartoon'' Anymore.....watta Bout The Flag Of Your Country, Is That Just A Flag Or Does It Have Meaning.......''remember We Are A People Who Love Death More Than Life''

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

The riots had nothing to do with the cartoons.

It certainly is true that the outrage stems deeper than just the cartoons as I pointed out earlier:

The reaction you have witnessed is related to what these caricatures really signify. Muslims feel that there has been an on-going campaign undertaken by many elements within the western media to malign and demonize Islam. Islam and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh has been repeatedly attacked and at a time when we need to reach out and increase our understanding of different minority groups we find that instead misconceptions and slanderous comments are being propagated. When these cartoons were published, the Muslim community in Denmark and other western countries felt that the percieved attack on Islam had now become obvious. The cartoons represented a malicious attempt to malign Islam and incite more hatred towards the Muslim community. This is why the Muslims felt that they needed to voice loud protest and cause the world to realize that we cannot continue to propagate hatred towards others if we intend to promote peace.

Regards

[Christian_dove]

It certainly is true that the outrage stems deeper than just the cartoons as I pointed out earlier: The reaction you have witnessed is related to what these caricatures really signify. Muslims feel that there has been an on-going campaign undertaken by many elements within the western media to malign and demonize Islam. Islam and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh has been repeatedly attacked and at a time when we need to reach out and increase our understanding of different minority groups we find that instead misconceptions and slanderous comments are being propagated. When these cartoons were published, the Muslim community in Denmark and other western countries felt that the percieved attack on Islam had now become obvious. The cartoons represented a malicious attempt to malign Islam and incite more hatred towards the Muslim community. This is why the Muslims felt that they needed to voice loud protest and cause the world to realize that we cannot continue to propagate hatred towards others if we intend to promote peace.
Regards

Norwegian company Telenor was attacked in Lahore in Pakistan. Computers, mobile phones and other equipment was stolen and the building set on fire.. Yes, the muslims wants revenge, and their "good" morale allowes them to become thieves in the name of the prophet.. Way to go. If I was a muslim in Pakistan I would be ashamed on behalf of these people... When violent thieves starts screaming for justice, something is terribly wrong.. I have to agree with the israeli woman who said that how bad it may seem, at least it is good that other european nations now are able to see what kind of neigbourhood Israel lives in. This clearly shows us what kind of people who wants "justice". Actually we don't need no campaign to malign and demonize Islam. The muslims are able to do this job themselves without anyones help.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle1223727.ece

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Norwegian company Telenor was attacked in Lahore in Pakistan. Computers, mobile phones and other equipment was stolen and the building set on fire..

...which is wrong.

[Malik]

I think us in America should speak out more.

[Christian_dove]

That's it! I agree, now the iranians have finally found the ultimate punishment for the danes. No, I am not talking about suicide bombers popping people in copenhagen.. Folks, I give you "The ultimate punishment so far":

They have changed the name of the danish wiener bread (which is very popular in Teheran, so they didn't wanna ban it due to loss of sale) from «Danish pastries» into: "The rose of Muhammad". Wow.. If this doesn't do the trick, then what will? I think the danes will go berserk after hearing this. I'm glad I am not in Copenhagen right now. It's the ultimate punishment, right? They will actually not stop selling it, just try to give it a slightly new image. I am impressed. It's like I've always said, "if you're not going all the way, why go at all"?

[Christian_dove]

Just to mention it, in case you wonder, I really like the people of Iran (except for those corrupted religious -------s in charge). It is one of the few islamic countries that I would really like to visit, if it only haden't been for the fact that it was islamistic. I know the hospitality is amazing, and from what I've read, people are both friendly and open. The islamic rulers in Iran however, are as far as I am able to see, insane. Unfortunately, this is something that very often happens when you allow your political system to be influenced by religion. Religious freaks take over the show and ban and supress all oposition.

Just recently I found that in Iran, people are executed for being gay. Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni were Iranian teenagers who first received 228 lashes, whereas they were hanged. Why? They were gay. Now, most of us knows that being gay is not a desease. Why are people gay? Because they are influenced by the devil? Obviously not, you have to be an uneducated moron to believe so. Maybe it is due to some chemical insident that occured while they were being developed in the mothers womb, who knows. Experiments with rats seem to support this theory.

Killing people for something they cannot change is barbaric. It is evil. This is why we should never allow islam to gain any political power in Europe. The sharia punishment for homosexuality is death (Death penalty in seven Islamic nations: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan, Somalia, Somaliland, and Yemen). If it were up to me, there would exist no islamic states at all anywhere. Just to make it clear, it wouldn't exist any christian states either. Religion is fundamentally based on belief and superstition, while politics should be influenced by reason and sensibility. Killing people for being gay is not a very nice thing to do. Nor is it rational. What other people, men or woman chose to do with each other is NOT your nor my concern. All people have to decide themselves how they want to live their life. Islam doens't leave us with this option. Therefor a country gouverned by sharia laws can never be a good country to live in... Just some rambling done by me on this late friday evening...

[seeker]

Well Let Me Say ......''are Cartoons Worse Than Murder''.......they Sure Are, But By The Way Once You Disrespect The Prophet Of Islam, Thats Not A ''cartoon'' Anymore.....watta Bout The Flag Of Your Country, Is That Just A Flag Or Does It Have Meaning.......''remember We Are A People Who Love Death More Than Life''

Um, then go ahead and die then.

How ridiculous can you be?

The flag of my country is a symbol. Nothing more nothing less. And if a person wants to burn it, fine by me.

So, is everyone here equally upset at the long history of Muslims who have leveled every imaginable insult possible towards Jews and their beliefs?

Or do you not care if you have a double standard.

It's just nauseating to see so many people upset over this on some principle they have. Yet when it comes to affording other people the same respect, you seem to think you are exempt.