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Salaam
02-05-2006, 01:06 PM
Salaam,

I have realized since the protest around the world, about the publication of the cartoons. That this forum has had a lot of Non-Muslim join and express there anger on the Muslims. But there has been some Non-Muslims who truly want to know what is Islam is.

What do You Think?
Reply

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ummAbdillah
02-05-2006, 02:22 PM
salaamz
i think that it's good that non-muslims are joining LI
:inshallah they will learn more about Islam from us! :amin:
ma' salaam
Reply

Isaac
02-05-2006, 02:34 PM
As Salam olaikum. Yes there will be backlash in different forms. New laws, innocent people being arrested, harrased, beaten and even killed. Just like the backlash after 911. SubhanAllah theres a saying that after every hardship there is ease. And the ease which we muslims will see inshaAllah will be through the comfort of seening more and more non-muslims taking interest in the deen. Just like after 911, you would have expected people to despise the religion, but what happends, more and more people took an interest. After 911there was an increase in the number of new muslims in the lands which was once called the land of the brave land of the free. So we should be prepared for a backlash, but at the same time be prepared to give dower where and when apprpriate and possible.
Reply

Isaac
02-05-2006, 02:45 PM
Its hard hearing the truth. If ou want evidence for that go and have a look in your national libray and look up statistics for change of religious belief. Its amazing some of the stuff youl find. why would you want to take offense of people turning to islam?
Reply

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Halima
02-05-2006, 02:46 PM
:sl:

Those that come on this forum to insult Islam or the Prophet Muhammed(saw) will be banned. As simple as that. If they do not have the respect to show us, they wil be banned.


According to the forum rules:


16. No attacks against Islam in any form will be tolerated on this discussion board. This includes, but is not limited to attacks on the Qur'an, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), his family and companions, or any other prophets in Islam, or Islamic scholars, past or present. While some may complain that there is "freedom of speech" please remember this is a privately owned discussion board which was created and is maintained to serve the purpose of promoting Islam. What is allowed in speech is determined by the Admin and not the member.
Reply

Mohsin
02-05-2006, 02:47 PM
Some non-muslims came on the other day just for a joke. some are here inshallah to learn, ut we aren't setting a good example. Some bros started swearing at the non-muslims, we shouldn't have done that
Reply

Benny
02-06-2006, 01:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Salaam
Salaam,

I have realized since the protest around the world, about the publication of the cartoons. That this forum has had a lot of Non-Muslim join and express there anger on the Muslims. But there has been some Non-Muslims who truly want to know what is Islam is.

What do You Think?
I know many people have seen that I found out and I'm learning about Islam because of an interest in a girl. I have found Muslim peoples ideas about somethings differ greatly compaired to Non-Muslims. I've only read a little bit about the cartoons. To me it's no big deal..a cartoon is a cartoon. It is of little value. But I heard that men with guns threatened the writers. That's a bit much to me. I think that's very uncool. I can understand protesting...But I like MLK style of non-violence. It seems more effective. Using a gun never solves anything. It only makes Islam look like a violent religion, IMO. I keep hearing and learning that true Islam is not violent. I like that fact. I'm peaceful person.

Benny
Reply

fluff
02-06-2006, 01:53 PM
I think its nice to find people who are open to discussion!

I came here following some of those 'haters' who got banned, and seeing how they acted on here I no longer would call them my friends.

I am not here to refute or to insult but to learn. there may be things some of you do that I do not agree with we may even do things that offend each other's values, but that is because we are different, not because we want to hurt each other, i think.
Reply

- Qatada -
02-06-2006, 02:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fluff
I think its nice to find people who are open to discussion!

I came here following some of those 'haters' who got banned, and seeing how they acted on here I no longer would call them my friends.

I am not here to refute or to insult but to learn. there may be things some of you do that I do not agree with we may even do things that offend each other's values, but that is because we are different, not because we want to hurt each other, i think.

Hey..


I hope you dont mind, but do you want to share the part you said in blue. Not tryin to be offensive, but you may want to find out the reasons behind our actions and vice versa; because intention plays a major role within all our actions, and within islam.

Our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and his beloved family) even mentioned this:

"Actions are but by intentions and every man (or woman) will have only what he (/she) intended.."



So just out of curiousity, what are the actions that you disagree with in islam. Hope you dont mind me asking.


Peace.
Reply

aamirsaab
02-06-2006, 02:26 PM
:sl:
I thought you meant WWE Backlash, in which case that event happened months ago. :p

I agree with most of the people who have posted so far:
There have been a few nincompoops who been ruining everything but similarly there have been a few guys/gals who actually want to learn etc. The nincompoops got banned. Back of the net!
Reply

dmvprof
02-06-2006, 03:13 PM
Salaam,

Boycotting Israeli and Danish goods is perfectly justifiable. I like that you are promoting those ideas as a response.

And yes, I came here for the very purpose you posted. I am just shocked by the behavior of so many muslims all over the world. Not just this event, but more generally the path that we all seem to be going down. Intolerance and conflict.

Your response to boycott is absolutely perfect. It's very heartening to see that.

But I have to ask, is there anything being done in your community to denounce violence and to denounce and isolate any people that may promote it.

If not, I beg you to put your efforts there. They are the cause for this backlash. And while these cartoons speak to all of Islam, I can assure you that everyone that has viewed them knows that they are not a direct attack on Islam or Muhammed, but they are an attack on the people that interpret Muhammed's teaching in a way to justify their violence.

If you say, "no, I don't think muslims should be violent in this way" then automatically, you are not the target of the cartoon.

You embody the hopes of all westerners that decent muslims will take back their religion and rid it of the individuals that are guilty of supporting violent acts.
Reply

fluff
02-06-2006, 07:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dmvprof
.

If you say, "no, I don't think muslims should be violent in this way" then automatically, you are not the target of the cartoon.

You embody the hopes of all westerners that decent muslims will take back their religion and rid it of the individuals that are guilty of supporting violent acts.
I agree with this, very much, it is the actions of a minority which provoke the hostile views of islam. In the same way, I do not take offense at jokes or comments about paedophile priests or the IRA because I know they do not refer to me.

Fi_Sabilillah, the bit in blue... I am very much a pacifist, I believe only god can decide when someone dies, it is not for me to make that decision as a punishment to them. The whole time they are alive, they have the chance to redeem themselves.

When people kill in the name of my religion, I think 'well, they are not one of us, not truly' so I am curious to find out more about islam and why there is so much publicity about killing infidels being acceptable, and what your scripture says about this, where people get this idea from, and how many people hold it...

I am also curious as to the lifestyles of muslims living in a culture with different values to theirs, to what extent one tries to integrate, and to what extent one fights to change the things that make it difficult, even when these things are integral to the 'indiginous' culture... lots of questions!

really, I want to correct my own misconceptions, and have more information to pass on to my more bigoted friends!
Reply

pegcityone
02-06-2006, 08:20 PM
I'd say I joined with the hopes of understanding the Muslim perspective better. I don't really have any interest in exploring the religion as something I'd personally join, but I do want to better understand the Muslim perspective.

I think it's very easy (and very ignorant) to watch the news in Canada and develop anger towards Islam, b/c we are shown so many negative images. I've always been told by Muslim friends that the people who propogate violence are a minority among Muslims.

But in viewing this board, it still appears there are a slim majority who support violence so long as it is retaliatory.

I've found that somewhat disheartening....as I expected moderate Muslims to form a majority on here. Maybe I'll just have to do more reading.
Reply

Chechnya
02-06-2006, 08:21 PM
Lol. What is a moderate Muslim? :rollseyes

I still cant work it out..
Reply

pegcityone
02-06-2006, 08:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechnya
Lol. What is a moderate Muslim? :rollseyes

I still cant work it out..
A non-extremist. Someone who doesn't promote violence.

A political centrist...but Islamic.
Reply

aamirsaab
02-06-2006, 08:26 PM
:sl:
aka the good guy. aka me :p.
Reply

Chechnya
02-06-2006, 08:31 PM
A non-extremist. Someone who doesn't promote violence.

A political centrist...but Islamic.
Im afraid that explanation is not good enough mate! :grumbling

Jihad is an essential part of Islam.
So would you call someone fighting on the path of Jihad for the sake of Allah (swt) an extremist? Are Chechen , kashmiri , Afghan fighters extremists?
Reply

fluff
02-06-2006, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechnya
Im afraid that explanation is not good enough mate! :grumbling

Jihad is an essential part of Islam.
So would you call someone fighting on the path of Jihad for the sake of Allah (swt) an extremist? Are Chechen , kashmiri , Afghan fighters extremists?

I think this is the thing non-muslims are striving to understand...

what defines a just war? who are 'just targets'?
what justifies the violence.

You are certainly one step ahead of the current UK government whose standards are simply 'you got it, we want it, we kill you' which I find abhorrent.

But what rules are there as to who can be killed? and how much consensus is there among muslims? links to relevant information would be much appreciated.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
02-06-2006, 08:47 PM
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...p?articleid=64
http://www.load-islam.com/c/Islam/JihadExplanation
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503546394
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503545840
Reply

- Qatada -
02-06-2006, 11:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dmvprof
If they kill civilians, then yes.

Not only that, they are cowards.

Ironic, because this is exactly what the americans are doing.
Reply

Ghazi
02-06-2006, 11:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dmvprof
If they kill civilians, then yes.

Not only that, they are cowards.
Salaam

Jihad has guidlines, I can't remember them all, but ones I know women and children arn't to be killed, plus fighting for your religion isn't an act of a coward.
Reply

shariq_0189
02-07-2006, 03:57 AM
how r they cowards they are defending there countries and religon. Islam doesnt say to go and kill every non believer. but if someone attacks ur religon, ocourse know one is going to take it lightly.
Reply

Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 04:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

Jihad has guidlines, I can't remember them all, but ones I know women and children arn't to be killed, plus fighting for your religion isn't an act of a coward.
:sl:
yes jihad does have guidelines which brother Ansar Al-'Adl provided us with a link about it http://www.load-islam.com/c/Islam/JihadExplanation

"Do not kill any old person, any child or any woman" (Abu Dawud).

"Do not kill the monks in monasteries" or "Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship" (Musnad of Ibn Hanbal).

"Do not cut off ears and noses and other parts of the body. Do not kill women and children, the elderly, and men of religion in their places of worship. Do not cut down date and other trees, and do not tear down buildings."(Bukhari)

It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah forbade the killing of women and children. (Muslim Book 019, Number 4320)

Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone (Al-Muwatta, Volume 21, Hadith 10)
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Prawned
02-07-2006, 05:01 AM
What is the punishment for breaking these so called laws of wars in the religion of peace?
Reply

Issa
02-07-2006, 05:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Prawned
What is the punishment for breaking these so called laws of wars in the religion of peace?
Salaam,
Are you asking if Allah says someone here on earth is allowed to do something about it?
Reply

Malsidabym
02-07-2006, 05:17 AM
Hey Shariq_0189
If they kill civilians, then yes.
Not only that, they are cowards.
you responded with,
how r they cowards they are defending there countries and religon. Islam doesnt say to go and kill every non believer. but if someone attacks ur religon, ocourse know one is going to take it lightly.
Read V E R Y closely. They....kill....civilians. Is that hard to understand? Civilians. They are defending thier countries and religion by killing civilians? Dosen't add up my friend. Nice try.
Reply

Prawned
02-07-2006, 05:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Issa
Salaam,
Are you asking if Allah says someone here on earth is allowed to do something about it?
I guess. I mean basically, what are the consequences for engaging in Jihad and violating these rules?

Does Allah do something? Does society do something?
Reply

Prawned
02-07-2006, 05:23 AM
Oh and yeah, killing civilians is for cowards. It's called "murder". Most societies do not condone this. Are you telling me the religion of peace condones this?
Reply

Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 05:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Ironic, because this is exactly what the americans are doing.
my response to you is quoted above by brother Fi_Sabilillah.
Reply

akulion
02-07-2006, 05:23 AM
Read V E R Y closely. They....kill....civilians. Is that hard to understand? Civilians. They are defending thier countries and religion by killing civilians? Dosen't add up my friend. Nice try.
thats clled "colleteral damage"

the americans use it all the time :D
Reply

Prawned
02-07-2006, 05:40 AM
Even if Americans do it, that doesn't make it right. This is not an argument. Are Muslims on this forum familiar with the term "fallacy"?
Reply

Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 05:44 AM
the muslims have to stick up for themselves, their people, their friends and family.. you have no idea what they go through every day of their lives.. seeing their son getting killed seeing their loved ones die infront of their eyes EVERY DAY.. dont u think u would be alittle angry at the people who did it?
Reply

Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 05:52 AM
lol i say you read about whats happening in iraq. By saying that our comments are misleading whihc is pretty much the meaning of fallacy, is veryyyy ignorant. It just shows you have read up on much about this issue. So how about you do and then come back here and tell us what you think :)
Reply

akulion
02-07-2006, 05:55 AM
salam alaikum

please realize something

That sucide bombings which occur in which civilians are killed is because of a reason.

We must question the issue and understand the reason behind this.

Just imagine you are living in your town and then the next thing you know that some arrogant people come kick you literally out of your house and when you or your family members try and resist they get killed or jailed.

Would you not be frustreated?

Furthermore you have no where to turn to for help because you are under supression and being occupied.

This sort of frustration can lead the toughest of people to break.

I am not in their shoes but I can tell you this much that if someone slapped my mother in front of me - I would tear their arm off their body or atleast beat the living crap out of them.

So please do not be so quick to judge an individual who has lost everything due to the extreme supression of the Isrealis on them like in palestin

Or the extreme persucation of the US on Iraqis

Or the extreme persucation of the Indians on the Kashmiris

It is easy to sit at home and say "oh my its a terrorist"

And Eventhough most of the Muslims know that killing of civilians is wrong
But we empathize with our brothers and sisters whose:

- sisters have been raped like they were in bosnia, afghanistan, palestine and iraq

- men folk have been massacred in front of their eyes like in bosnia iraq and palestine, afghanistan

- children have been killed as well like in bosnia palestine and bosnia, afghanistan

- cities have been burnt and bombed like in palestine iraq and boasnia, afghanistan

And so many other atrocities like humiluating treatment in jails and so on an so forth

So dont come and tell ME especially that Muslims are terrorists cos quite frankly I see my people struggling against the supression and the tyranny of their supressors

while the west sits with an arrogant attitude conveniently turning a blind eye to the suffering of the Muslims

I will always empathize with my brothers and sisters as long as the persecution continues and I will always turn a blind eye to their short comings and mistakes AS LONG as the west , USA, UK , FRANCe etc etc all these "great developed nations" and the UN keep playing double policy and turn a blind eye to the suffering of the Muslims all over the world and label us as terrorists!

The End!
Reply

Malsidabym
02-07-2006, 08:29 AM
I will always empathize with my brothers and sisters as long as the persecution continues
And so will I. I have thought long and hard about what it would be like to be in thier shoes. I also have thought long and hard about similiar statements I have heard like the one you made about suicide bombers. I mean really thought about it. And I tell you this, grown men have ability to change things. And targeting them is one thing, they make the choices to oppress or not. But killing children is never an option. Never. Any person with a bomb that could sit on a bus beside a mother and her children, and not break down in tears at the thought of ripping thier innocent bodies apart with thier device of hatred, is no better than a rabid dog. An abomination even to god the forgiving.
Akulion, You list the atrocities against muslims in the world, and I agree completely. These terrible things must be stopped. But I offer my own list,
2/6/02 Israel , Three people including a mother and her 11-year-old daughter are killed in a home invasion
2/6/06 Thailand ,Three villagers are shot to death by Muslim militants
2/5/06 Israel , A Palstinian stabs an Israeli woman to death as she is riding a bus. Four others were stabbed as well.
2/5/06 Turkey, A Catholic priest is murdered by a muslim assailant
2/4/06 Iraq , A Sunni fires into a crowd of Shiites marching in a procession, killing three.
2/3/06 Thailand , A Buddhist teacher is gunned down by Muslim militants and four others are wounded in a separate attack on teachers.
2/3/06 Philippines , Islamists massacre a family of Christians after confirming their religious identity. The victims included an infant and other young children.

The point I am making in offering a list that is the same as yours is that everybody is hurting, and everybody is hurting everybody else. No race or religion is innocent. And no race or religion is ammune to the pain. We all are responsible. You, me, jews, africans, we share the responsibility. If I were a palestinian, I would be extremely angry and frustrated. But suicide bombs only provide Israel with evidence to continue thier behavior. The world community would have no choice but to get behind palestinians if they were being attacked but not attacking. You see, the violence must stop somewhere, that begins with you and me, and Prawned, and Ladee_Maryam.
Individual attitudes must change before the attitudes of countries can change.
Reply

akulion
02-07-2006, 08:42 AM
well i would agree with you that there are unjust acts on both sides

I wish that aggression would end from both sides completely and we can achieve peace

but i think thats a TALLLLL order for me to wish for

I think the satan is the common enemy to all of mankind and has casted the seed of anomisoty between us all and fuels it constantly

one side kills the other - the other sides kills the first back

and so it continues on and on and on!

there seems to be no end to this craziness

Where did it all begin?

Where will it all end?

No one knows the answers

But I cannot stand neutral in this whole affair. I have a confession that I love Muslims like crazy and it really makes me sad and also angry when I see Muslims being killed.

Like take Checnya - russia invaded and tried to ethnically cleanse that land - NO ONE gave a care

Checnyans retialiated in what little means they had by the cinema incident - Everyone jumped and lebelled them terrorists.

I ask why not label the russians terrorists too ?
They were the ones destroying cities and towns in the first place!!

It is this biased stance because of which I will always side with my muslim brothers and sisters.

If there was no bias - then i would openly condem the wrongs done by Muslims as well

My teacher once said "2 wrongs dont make a right"
And I agreed with her for a long time

But now I say "when 1 wrong is called right and the other wrong is called wrong then wrong itself becomes a matter of interpretation"

I just get so angry nowadays cos of all what goes on - it literally starts to boil my blood
Reply

Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 08:48 AM
malsidab i agree with you there.. but i dont think a RELIGION is to blame, its the people. Dont judge a religion by its people, judge a religion by its scripture!
And do you think that is a realistic view? do you think that everyone in the world CAN stop hating each other and the violence WILL stop? no it wont stop. I think the most we can do is stop generalizing and be as open minded as we can
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akulion
02-07-2006, 08:50 AM
also the news keeps labeling the Muslims by religion

while other religion people are labeled by their name only or their nationality

its so biased
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Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 08:52 AM
its double standards when it comes to muslims and islam! subhanAllah
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akulion
02-07-2006, 09:05 AM
yes it seems so thats what is killing my compassion in my heart slowly

u know when you get pushed too much and all the time its your fault

then something inside you starts to die and the heart starts to become hard

I think that is happening to me slowly because now I dont feel sad at the loss of non muslims

I dont feel anything - i just think "oh ok big deal" - like a careless attitude when i hear some bad news from the west

My heart feels very hard too and i have also noticed that my temper has started to flare a lot also impatience is getting the better of me

i know this is a trial - i feel maybe I am failing it

I seek refuge in Allah from the afflictions caused by these trials upon me and all muslims ameen.
Reply

songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lovly_lady
salaamz
i think that it's good that non-muslims are joining LI
:inshallah they will learn more about Islam from us! :amin:
ma' salaam
I agree with u..:) if we all stay calm, take nothing to heart they say...maybe they learn something, inshaAllah:)
Reply

Malsidabym
02-07-2006, 09:13 AM
I hear everything you are saying and agree. I understand your frustration. I am also saying there is no justification for anyone to kill children, even if children on the other side of the fence have been killed. They didn't do it. Russians don't have the right. People of Cheychnia don't have the right, noone. Not Israelis, not Palestinians, noone. Even if other children on the other side of the fence have been killed. Children are innocent. Muslim children are innocent. Jewish children are innocent. Russian children, mexican, german, danish, eskimo children, all innocent. Adults are guilty. I say find another way, You may say "what way?", I don't know, I am fortunate to not live in that kind of desperation. I do know if I did, knowing what I know now, I would find another way. I could not kill children.
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Prawned
02-07-2006, 09:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ladee_Maryam
its double standards when it comes to muslims and islam! subhanAllah
Great post. You are doing Islam a service by posting it.
Reply

songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by akulion
thats clled "colleteral damage"

the americans use it all the time :D
Not to start something here..:) "But" saying "americans" is like people saying "muslims" when decribing something negitive....maybe say,,"many Americans..or "some"..be it american or muslim,,,or anything...i am a american muslim...Alhamdolillah:)
Reply

songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by akulion
salam alaikum

please realize something

That sucide bombings which occur in which civilians are killed is because of a reason.

We must question the issue and understand the reason behind this.

Just imagine you are living in your town and then the next thing you know that some arrogant people come kick you literally out of your house and when you or your family members try and resist they get killed or jailed.

Would you not be frustreated?

Furthermore you have no where to turn to for help because you are under supression and being occupied.

This sort of frustration can lead the toughest of people to break.

I am not in their shoes but I can tell you this much that if someone slapped my mother in front of me - I would tear their arm off their body or atleast beat the living crap out of them.

So please do not be so quick to judge an individual who has lost everything due to the extreme supression of the Isrealis on them like in palestin

Or the extreme persucation of the US on Iraqis

Or the extreme persucation of the Indians on the Kashmiris

It is easy to sit at home and say "oh my its a terrorist"

And Eventhough most of the Muslims know that killing of civilians is wrong
But we empathize with our brothers and sisters whose:

- sisters have been raped like they were in bosnia, afghanistan, palestine and iraq

- men folk have been massacred in front of their eyes like in bosnia iraq and palestine, afghanistan

- children have been killed as well like in bosnia palestine and bosnia, afghanistan

- cities have been burnt and bombed like in palestine iraq and boasnia, afghanistan

And so many other atrocities like humiluating treatment in jails and so on an so forth

So dont come and tell ME especially that Muslims are terrorists cos quite frankly I see my people struggling against the supression and the tyranny of their supressors

while the west sits with an arrogant attitude conveniently turning a blind eye to the suffering of the Muslims

I will always empathize with my brothers and sisters as long as the persecution continues and I will always turn a blind eye to their short comings and mistakes AS LONG as the west , USA, UK , FRANCe etc etc all these "great developed nations" and the UN keep playing double policy and turn a blind eye to the suffering of the Muslims all over the world and label us as terrorists!

The End!

So well said...inshaAllah :)
Reply

Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 09:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Prawned
Great post. You are doing Islam a service by posting it.
excuse me? and what is that supposed to mean? please explain. If you have anything to say then please say it and be clear.
Reply

songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:23 AM
A fallacy is a component of an argument which is demonstrably flawed in its logic or form, thus rendering the argument invalid in whole. In logical arguments, fallacies are either formal or informal. Because the validity of a deductive arguments depends on its form, a formal fallacy (or logical fallacy) is a deductive argument which has an invalid form, whereas an informal fallacy is any other invalid mode of reasoning whose flaw is not in the form of the argument.:)
pray that clears the word fallacy up,
Reply

Prawned
02-07-2006, 09:25 AM
I think it was pretty clear
Reply

songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ladee_Maryam
excuse me? and what is that supposed to mean? please explain. If you have anything to say then please say it and be clear.
I believe i made it very plain what i ment ..with no argument ment..i made nice comment in answer to your use of words...(thats clled "colleteral damage"

the americans use it all the time)
nothing was ment, except how we "use words" Allah bless u, ameen
Reply

Malsidabym
02-07-2006, 09:30 AM
Akulion, you and I are not so different. You may think I could not possibly hold the same values because I am not muslim. I say to you, it should not be hard to see that values of honesty and decency can be universal in people that take the time to think. We both seem to have some problems with intolerance. But I believe we both have shown the ability to reconsider. It seems if you were born into my position and I into yours, I would most likely be a muslim now arguing with you. Only difference is what side of the fence we are born on.
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Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 09:30 AM
no sister i was reffering to Prawned. Thats why i quoted him.
And prawned, were you being sarcastic or not? was that a derogatory comment u made or not? please clarify.
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songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by malsidab
Akulion, you and I are not so different. You may think I could not possibly hold the same values because I am not muslim. I say to you, it should not be hard to see that values of honesty and decency can be universal in people that take the time to think. We both seem to have some problems with intolerance. But I believe we both have shown the ability to reconsider. It seems if you were born into my position and I into yours, I would most likely be a muslim now arguing with you. Only difference is what side of the fence we are born on.
Well I don't think I commented to you..."but" I had no idea that u aren't a muslim...and I am a convert..so have lived on both sides of the fence---I just happen to choose to live my life , to Allah... and would never made a judgement on values, when talking of another,,,thats against islam..:) peace to you...
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Malsidabym
02-07-2006, 09:37 AM
Songinwind, the thread was for a different person, it was for Akulion, sorry for the mix up.
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songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ladee_Maryam
no sister i was reffering to Prawned. Thats why i quoted him.
And prawned, were you being sarcastic or not? was that a derogatory comment u made or not? please clarify.
Of corse not sister..why would i make a sarcastic comment...I am speaking of "choice" of words...I get pretty upset to hear people say " the muslims" when refering to things...and ones that say "americans"....or "brits" or "paki"...it goes on and on...and doesn't Allah tell us to watch the mouth? Maybe as a convert I tend to take things from the quran very serious,,,no punt ment to u...peace sister:)
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akulion
02-07-2006, 09:45 AM
lool ok this thread is now going hay wire :p

yes i know what you mean malsidab

its all a matter of how our surroundings and experiences tought us and how we learned from them and grew up to be the people we are in the places we are born in
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songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by akulion
lool ok this thread is now going hay wire :p

yes i know what you mean malsidab

its all a matter of how our surroundings and experiences tought us and how we learned from them and grew up to be the people we are in the places we are born in
Its ok brother...things getting little confussed now..:)
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songinwind
02-07-2006, 10:00 AM
002:263 Kind words and the covering of faults are better than charity followed by injury. Allah is free of all wants, and He is Most-Forbearing.

003:103 And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.

005:8 O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do

Just some surahs I happen to love...:thumbs_up
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Umu 'Isa
02-07-2006, 10:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by songinwind
Of corse not sister..why would i make a sarcastic comment...I am speaking of "choice" of words...I get pretty upset to hear people say " the muslims" when refering to things...and ones that say "americans"....or "brits" or "paki"...it goes on and on...and doesn't Allah tell us to watch the mouth? Maybe as a convert I tend to take things from the quran very serious,,,no punt ment to u...peace sister:)
sister!! again i was referring to PRAWNED not you. Sorry for the mix up again.
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Issa
02-07-2006, 04:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Prawned
I guess. I mean basically, what are the consequences for engaging in Jihad and violating these rules?

Does Allah do something? Does society do something?
Salaam,

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is against violence. Not everyone in the Islamic community says it is ok to kill innocent people. Of course, there may be some "fanatics". Problem is the media is only going to focus on these few and make them look like a majority. The question is who is the "all knowing" individual or group that gets to decide when, where, how....? Allah knows best...

I also want to point out that a major misconception about Jihad is that it is thought to mean fight in the sense of violence. It means to struggle and my Jihad may not be the same as someone elses. If you leave with anything remember that. Jihad is not a BAD word meaning what the media tells you...
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Ghazi
02-07-2006, 04:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Issa
Salaam,

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is against violence. Not everyone in the Islamic community says it is ok to kill innocent people. Of course, there may be some "fanatics". Problem is the media is only going to focus on these few and make them look like a majority. The question is who is the "all knowing" individual or group that gets to decide when, where, how....? Allah knows best...

I also want to point out that a major misconception about Jihad is that it is thought to mean fight in the sense of violence. It means to struggle and my Jihad may not be the same as someone elses. If you leave with anything remember that. Jihad is not a BAD word meaning what the media tells you...
Salaam

I agree the media allways want some drama to write about, they never focus on the zakat and charity given by muslims, they look for some controversy and suck it dry.
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wesleyjfreeman
02-07-2006, 04:48 PM
Salaam i think you are accutly accurate, i myself am rather dismayed by the guffawing in central London but no more than when over priviliged green thinkers ransack Burger King out of frustration and a longing to belong each May Day. I myself as a non Muslim with no religious background or enforced faith education am here as i find myself at a crossroads in life and am seeking possible solice in the quaran as the alleged final word of god.
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songinwind
02-07-2006, 05:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wesleyjfreeman
Salaam i think you are accutly accurate, i myself am rather dismayed by the guffawing in central London but no more than when over priviliged green thinkers ransack Burger King out of frustration and a longing to belong each May Day. I myself as a non Muslim with no religious background or enforced faith education am here as i find myself at a crossroads in life and am seeking possible solice in the quaran as the alleged final word of god.

I for one, say:welcome: :) welcome to you, May Allah grant, and increase your knowledge. ameen...
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Anette
02-07-2006, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Salaam
Salaam,

I have realized since the protest around the world, about the publication of the cartoons. That this forum has had a lot of Non-Muslim join and express there anger on the Muslims. But there has been some Non-Muslims who truly want to know what is Islam is.

What do You Think?
I can only speak for myself. I want to know about Islam. The reason that I joined now is because I am confused and wanted to hear about what Muslims thought about what happened just because I do not believe every thing that is put in front of me.

I will have lots of other questions in the future. I´m living in a city with very many Muslims and I will need some guidelines in the future since I am going to work in a school with many Muslim children. I do not want to offend people not now or not in the future.

But if I have came to the wrong place and the forum is not the place for me then I have to find other ways. The least I want is to be in the middle of a "word war" and have to choose side in any conflict.
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Anette
02-07-2006, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Anette
The least I want is to be in the middle of a "word war" and have to choose side in any conflict.
I hope I got that right, my english is not the best. I meant that I do not want to be a part of conflicts between muslims and non-muslims at this forum.
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songinwind
02-07-2006, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Anette
I can only speak for myself. I want to know about Islam. The reason that I joined now is because I am confused and wanted to hear about what Muslims thought about what happened just because I do not believe every thing that is put in front of me.

I will have lots of other questions in the future. I´m living in a city with very many Muslims and I will need some guidelines in the future since I am going to work in a school with many Muslim children. I do not want to offend people not now or not in the future.

But if I have came to the wrong place and the forum is not the place for me then I have to find other ways. The least I want is to be in the middle of a "word war" and have to choose side in any conflict.
If u are here to learn sister...I am here to help u all I can...I am a convert of 5 years, alhamdolillah.......fell free to ask help, but please sister, be serious,,as I take my faith very serious,,,,and here to help anyone with desire to learn, inshaAllah..
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Buddy
02-07-2006, 11:22 PM
Feh. I think any backlash would be nothing more than reaping what you are sowing.

Remember that it wasn't Jews or Christians who slammed that airplane into the WTC.

ALthough you guys probably believe the lie that 4000 jews didn't show up to work that day.
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Mohsin
02-07-2006, 11:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Buddy
Feh. I think any backlash would be nothing more than reaping what you are sowing.

Remember that it wasn't Jews or Christians who slammed that airplane into the WTC.

ALthough you guys probably believe the lie that 4000 jews didn't show up to work that day.
I heard 4000 jews didn't turn up to work that day, and believe it to be true, but i see nothing suspicious in this, as i've heard it was their special religious day and that's why they didn't come to work. you can check it up, i've only heard this, i haven't checked it up myself :)
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martina
02-07-2006, 11:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Moss
as i've heard it was their special religious day

Right. It was "Dont Get Killed" day. A very sacred Jewish holiday. They also let all the Christians and atheists know about it secretly by text messaging them a few hours beforehand (because a lot of businessmen in the US use text messages to communicate.). So really, only Muslims were killed in the World Trade Center bombings, because no one told them not to show up for work. So like the good hardworking Muslims they are, they showed up to work and were killed. By who you ask? Well, Osama bin Laden might have claimed to be responsible, but he's probably just a nutty guy anyway. We know the real truth. The plains were hijacked by remote control stations located in Israel by Israeli Jews. They flew the plains into the towers then they blamed it all on Muslims. Shame on them.
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Mohsin
02-08-2006, 11:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by martina
Right. It was "Dont Get Killed" day. A very sacred Jewish holiday. They also let all the Christians and atheists know about it secretly by text messaging them a few hours beforehand (because a lot of businessmen in the US use text messages to communicate.). So really, only Muslims were killed in the World Trade Center bombings, because no one told them not to show up for work. So like the good hardworking Muslims they are, they showed up to work and were killed. By who you ask? Well, Osama bin Laden might have claimed to be responsible, but he's probably just a nutty guy anyway. We know the real truth. The plains were hijacked by remote control stations located in Israel by Israeli Jews. They flew the plains into the towers then they blamed it all on Muslims. Shame on them.

I dnt knw if you're being sarcastic or serious
I'm not blaming jews or anything, whoever did it, allah will punish them
I was just trying to say, that regarding the rumour that no jews were in that day, i've heard there is a perfectly good excuse and reason for this, it was their special holy day, apparently they have 10 of them a year or so, i don't really know
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Ghazi
02-08-2006, 11:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Buddy
Feh. I think any backlash would be nothing more than reaping what you are sowing.

Remember that it wasn't Jews or Christians who slammed that airplane into the WTC.

ALthough you guys probably believe the lie that 4000 jews didn't show up to work that day.
Salaam

Will one of the brothers/sisters kindly give a link for loose change in here, I suggest you watch it and you'll see were not responsible.
Reply

Muhammad
02-08-2006, 01:31 PM
Greetings Anette,

Welcome to the forum! You have done the right thing to find out what Muslims actually think about the current affairs of the world, as well as find out about their beliefs, by coming to this forum and not believing everything you are exposed to. It is certainly an important aspect of clarifying confusion and promoting understanding between people of different beliefs, which helps us get along together in society. Please feel free to ask any questions and feel at home here!

Greetings Buddy,

Feh. I think any backlash would be nothing more than reaping what you are sowing.

Remember that it wasn't Jews or Christians who slammed that airplane into the WTC.
Backlash can indeed be expected due to the seeds being sown by poorly-educated individuals, just as it can be expected in response to seeds of religious hatred being planted by the media.

Going back to the topic of this thread; there are people who are joining the forum to simply abuse Muslims without wanting to find out what they really think about the situation. This kind of backlash is unnecessary since the majority of Muslims condemn the violence that is going on.

All religions have bad "followers" who, in actual fact, know very little about that religion and therefore act in opposition to it yet still claim to follow it. This kind of ignorance often paints a negative image of that religion when narrow-minded people focus on them only and not the majority of people who do not support their actions.

Regards.
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gladTidings
02-08-2006, 02:28 PM
:sl:


Will one of the brothers/sisters kindly give a link for loose change in here,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20890224991194


May Allah open the eyes of the non-believers... Ameen

:sl:
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Salaam
02-08-2006, 02:54 PM
Ameen...
Reply

fluff
02-08-2006, 08:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by akulion
yes it seems so thats what is killing my compassion in my heart slowly

u know when you get pushed too much and all the time its your fault

then something inside you starts to die and the heart starts to become hard

I think that is happening to me slowly because now I dont feel sad at the loss of non muslims
this is the real heartbreak :wilted_ro :wilted_ro
I saw the film Munich yesterday, and it made me slightly sick, the line 'I only care when Israeli blood is split' (or similar)

and when each side justifies their actions by what the other side have done.

maybe there is no way to stop this hate and we will all end up in a living hell.
Reply

PAPA LAZAROU
02-08-2006, 09:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad

Backlash can indeed be expected due to the seeds being sown by poorly-educated individuals, just as it can be expected in response to seeds of religious hatred being planted by the media.

Going back to the topic of this thread; there are people who are joining the forum to simply abuse Muslims without wanting to find out what they really think about the situation. This kind of backlash is unnecessary since the majority of Muslims condemn the violence that is going on.

All religions have bad "followers" who, in actual fact, know very little about that religion and therefore act in opposition to it yet still claim to follow it. This kind of ignorance often paints a negative image of that religion when narrow-minded people focus on them only and not the majority of people who do not support their actions.

Regards.
Hi there,
How can we say who is a "bad follower", when violent acts against non muslims are called for in the Quaran?
Not trying to bad mouth anybody or Islam, but isnt the justification for murderous acts right there in the Quran and Hadith?
Respectfully,
PAPA LAZAROU.
Reply

fluff
02-08-2006, 09:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PAPA LAZAROU
Hi there,
How can we say who is a "bad follower", when violent acts against non muslims are called for in the Quaran?
Not trying to bad mouth anybody or Islam, but isnt the justification for murderous acts right there in the Quran and Hadith?
Respectfully,
PAPA LAZAROU.

out of curiosity, is there anything in there about respect for the laws of the community you live in, if it is not an islamic community?
(I ask this in ignorance of your scripture, but in mine such things are clearly stated)
Reply

Muhammad
02-08-2006, 10:00 PM
Hello, and welcome to the forums!

format_quote Originally Posted by PAPA LAZAROU
How can we say who is a "bad follower", when violent acts against non muslims are called for in the Quaran?
Not trying to bad mouth anybody or Islam, but isnt the justification for murderous acts right there in the Quran and Hadith?
Respectfully,
PAPA LAZAROU.
Out of interest, have you read the Qur'an or checked these Hadith? If not, then I assume this is something you have probably heard. Well allow me to clarify that the Qur'an does not allow injustice towards anyone, and Muslims and non-Muslims alike are encouraged to live peacefully.

Please have a look at the following threads/links, and I hope it will help you to understand, God-Willing. Thankyou for your interest :).

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...-violence.html
http://www.load-islam.com/c/rebuttals/Misquoted

Peace.
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PAPA LAZAROU
02-08-2006, 10:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by fluff
out of curiosity, is there anything in there about respect for the laws of the community you live in, if it is not an islamic community?
(I ask this in ignorance of your scripture, but in mine such things are clearly stated)
Hi there fluff,
I am not saying the books of Islam are devoid of good qualities.

heres one from the Quran about respect for the society you live in:
25:52, So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour.

do i need to quote the lines, (of which there are quite a few) that call for violent action against the non believer?

47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.

9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers.

9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers.

Pay particular attention to the number of this surrah:

9:111, Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an.

How is a non muslim to feel when he took an interest in Islam, and found so much hatred? Thanking you for this discussion,
Respectfully,
PAPA LAZAROU.
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PAPA LAZAROU
02-08-2006, 10:09 PM
Thankyou Muhammed, I will take a good look at the links you have shown.
Yours, Papa.
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Issa
02-09-2006, 12:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by akulion
also the news keeps labeling the Muslims by religion

while other religion people are labeled by their name only or their nationality

its so biased
:sl: ,

I totally agree with that!!! It isn't fair that the media is making it about religion. I mean you hear some people get offended just because we say Americans or the Danish but then they don't understand why someone is offended when they say something in terms of Islam.
:w:
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Issa
02-09-2006, 12:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PAPA LAZAROU
Hi there Muhammad,

A point on the two verses you supplied (below) on not being violent:


7:74]"And remember how He made you inheritors after the 'Ad people and gave you habitations in the land: ye build for yourselves palaces and castles in (open) plains, and care out homes in the mountains; so bring to remembrance the benefits (ye have received) from Allah, and refrain from evil and mischief on the earth."

[26:151-152] "And follow not the bidding of those who are extravagant,- Who make mischief in the land, and mend not (their ways)."


If you cross refererance your Quran you will find that "evil and mischief" is in regard to those who do not follow the way of Islam. All that the two surrahs state is to not follow the ways of the unbeliever, as is quite evident even in the one you have provided, as it talks of those wh "mend not" their ways.
These surrahs do not admonish muslims to be non violent in any way, though maybe you could point out to me how the ones i have supplied make for decent behaviour between muslims and non muslims alike?

Respectfully,
Papa.
Salaam,

Did you read the Quran in English or Arabic? It makes a difference because of what is lost in translation (alot of the Arabic words have several meanings) . If anyone truly wants to know the Quran they would have to learn Arabic.
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Salaam
02-09-2006, 03:18 PM
Agree...
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Issa
02-09-2006, 04:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Buddy
Feh. I think any backlash would be nothing more than reaping what you are sowing.

Remember that it wasn't Jews or Christians who slammed that airplane into the WTC.

ALthough you guys probably believe the lie that 4000 jews didn't show up to work that day.
Salaam,

That was a low blow, sir. It wasn't a Muslim who blew up the Oklahoma City building either.... What is your point? My point would be that PEOPLE are violent not just Muslims. I hate it when someone says what you just said. If we bring up attrocities that Christians(Nazi's murder Jews) or Jews(refusing to believe that Jesus was a messenger of Allah) have someone will say that is human nature not the religion, but then they turn right around and say what you said. Have you ever heard the saying "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?
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sargon
02-09-2006, 06:20 PM
You can still understand the Quran without Arabic becaue it's a book of signs. All you have to do is contemplate what it's about.

The verses that talk about violence are out of context, for example, in a war, which happens here on earth if you take a look around.

I know where a lot of confusion comes from, people DONT like to fight. But in the case if a massive army is coming towards your city, you ahve no where to run, are you going to sit there and let your family get slaughtered or are you and all capable men going to fight?

Now remember God knows his creation, and he knows that there would be people suppressing his followers BECAUSE of the devil. Therefore Islam FOR THE FIRST TIME created rules of war.

Muslims are supposed to treat prisoners with respect, and feed them.
There are to be no killing of innocent people.

A lot of the anti-Islamic propaganda on the internet comes from primarily one source, which is the early biography of Mohommed, written BEFORE hadith was compiled and a science of it's study created.

A lot of the stories that circulated before hadiths were created by the jews to discredit the prophet. This is why we test if the hadith makes sense according to the actual saying of the prophet.
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songinwind
02-10-2006, 01:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Issa
Salaam,

That was a low blow, sir. It wasn't a Muslim who blew up the Oklahoma City building either.... What is your point? My point would be that PEOPLE are violent not just Muslims. I hate it when someone says what you just said. If we bring up attrocities that Christians(Nazi's murder Jews) or Jews(refusing to believe that Jesus was a messenger of Allah) have someone will say that is human nature not the religion, but then they turn right around and say what you said. Have you ever heard the saying "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?
Sister, you couldn't have said this better:) people certinly are violent...and not once have i heard said.."hey, u know that "christian" man down the road, he just killed his family......oh this happen here, "far too much", but never once is religion mentioned, "unless" its a muslim:rollseyes ...and there is millions of glass houses here:)
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cleo
02-10-2006, 02:48 AM
My advice to anyone who listens to a form of gossip, is being led in a blind state. I am new in Islam, like a baby, trying to walk. I study, and learn, not just fly off, because someone said Muslims are "bad". If a person is so stupid, that they can't look at both sides, and see the evil, where it really does come from, and educate your self in the matters of truth, you deserve to be blind.My last opinion is Islam is the beauty of life, and love. Discover for yourself, and don't be ignorant of the evil of gossip...or be quite.
Reply

abdul Majid
02-10-2006, 03:18 AM
Salam Alakum... Just Wanted To Welcome Cleo In To Islam...im Very Happy That You Received This Mercy... Salam Alakum
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Issa
02-10-2006, 03:36 AM
:sl: ,
Thank you songinwind!
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songinwind
02-10-2006, 11:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cleo
My advice to anyone who listens to a form of gossip, is being led in a blind state. I am new in Islam, like a baby, trying to walk. I study, and learn, not just fly off, because someone said Muslims are "bad". If a person is so stupid, that they can't look at both sides, and see the evil, where it really does come from, and educate your self in the matters of truth, you deserve to be blind.My last opinion is Islam is the beauty of life, and love. Discover for yourself, and don't be ignorant of the evil of gossip...or be quite.

Sister cleo. This is what I was saying, but in different way...as "to eat the flesh of our brothers" is a sin....(gossipp):X
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Salaam
02-18-2006, 11:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by songinwind
This is what I was saying, but in different way...as "to eat the flesh of our brothers" is a sin....(gossipp):X
Salaam,

Backbiting is like Eating the flesh of your brother...
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