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Chechnya
02-08-2006, 11:12 AM
Salam alaykum

I want to talk about this topic because there are many muslims i know who slander and spread hate against the Chechen fighters and people because of this one event. Most of these people talk rubbish since they have no idea what actually happened and are only repeating the kafir media propaganda.


Firstly why did it happen.

The answer to this can be seen in the first war . During the first war Chechen commander Shamil Basayev led a hostage-taking of a hospital in the town of Buddenyvosk. From this hostage-taking , the Mujahideen were able to secure a small ceasefire which was they used to regroup and - led again by Shamil Basayev - attacked and recaptured their main cities thereby forcing the russians out and ending the war and the genocide of their people.
In the Buddenyvosk operation the Mujahideen did not kill the hostages. This was also the intention of Beslan. They did not go their to kill children but to stop the genocide of their people and liberate them.

Another interesting point the western media fail to mention is that a few months before Beslan , Shamil Basayev (who was behind Beslan) offered to obey international law IF the russians did the same and stop the slaughter of Chechen civilians:


If president of Russia Putin makes an official statement that he
pledges to strictly comply with the international law in the solution
of the Russian-Chechen armed conflict, we will stop all subversive
activities and acts of sabotage against unarmed civilians on the
territory of Russia (there are no peaceful civilians in Russia),
except for special military operations against the military and
secret services in the places where they are deployed. We can even
give that up as well.



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/35479




The russians could have avoided Beslan by obeying their own laws but instead they ignored the offer and continued with their genocide.
In his interview after Beslan , Shamil Basayev offered to go on trial for Beslan even though the deaths of the children came about from the russians attacking the building. Here are a couple of survivors from Beslan :



QUOTE
"I saw myself, as a woman fell down, after this on a window-sill there was the mountain of corpses, continues the woman. -The terrorists
didn't shoot at us at all - I even thought that when they finish them
off, they (servicemen .) will come and and will finish off all of
us".

Another victim (Zinaida Varziyeva) described how his son perished and
of what nature of wounds he had. As it proved to be, he got a bullet
wound not in his back, but at his side - "on that side our servicemen
stood, they were shooting at the school".

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/44874


This shows who was firing on the children.

To all the people who claim Shamil Basayev is a "child-killer" , "terrorist" etc. : What kind of terrorist expresses regret at what happened , offers to go on trial and has many times offered to observe international law?? He must be the worst "terrorist" around.

Also talking of children and terrorists , it is the russian terrorists who have wiped out 40,000 muslim children and still counting.
It is the russians who are carrying out the genocide of a nation , it is the russians who have wiped out a quarter of the population of Chechnya.

Many muslims also claim that through Beslan , the Chechen people and Mujahideen have lost public opinion in the west.
Before Beslan the Mujahideen must have thought they have two options:

1) Continue the fight as it is , let 40,000 more Chechen children but keep decent public opinion in the west

or

2) Do something radical to stop the genocide of the women , the children and the elderly but in the process lose public opinion.

To this the only answer can be : what has public opinion done for the
Chechens in the past?

Has it stopped the destruction of cities and towns?

Has it stopped the rape camps where our sisters are abused and tortured?

Has it prevented the deaths of 40,000 Chechen children?

Has it stopped the genocide?

These questions answer themselves.

I have not justified the deaths of the people in Beslan - there isnt a justification which is also why Shamil Basayev has offered to go on trial- but explained what happened and why.

I want to end in Shamil Basayevs own words which show the hypocrisy of the world :


"The Russians have been holding the entire Chechen people hostage for
five years and nothing happened. We held 1,000 people hostage only
for three days to stop the genocide of the Chechen people, and the
whole world is shocked. What is this if not hypocrisy? . .
Reply

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Chechnya
02-08-2006, 11:30 AM
Salam

This article is copy and pasted from another forum. It is written by a brother who has alot of knowledge also on the whole situation.
Reply

justahumane
02-08-2006, 11:42 AM
The Russians have been holding the entire Chechen people hostage for
five years and nothing happened. We held 1,000 people hostage only
for three days to stop the genocide of the Chechen people, and the
whole world is shocked. What is this if not hypocrisy? . .
Ya it is hypocricy, the noble commander is a great fighter. ALLAH must be very happy with him for this deed of kindness. Nothing to worry for the world opinion when ALLAH is with U ppls. Again, very noble of the beslan hero. One question plz, does any ayah or hadith suppport this act of bravery and love?

Thanks.
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north_malaysian
02-09-2006, 04:14 AM
Why school in Beslan? Now those schoolchildrens surviving the act became even more anti Islam and anti Chechen.
Reply

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justahumane
02-09-2006, 07:33 AM
Why school in Beslan? Now those schoolchildrens surviving the act became even more anti Islam and anti Chechen.
Let them become anti islamic....nothing to worry about, ALLAH will take care of them, and burn them in hellfire. and the brave commander is alive and active, he can make yet another attempt to please his ALLAH the islamic way. Long live noble mujahideens, the humanity needs them, otherwise how can there be rule of ALLAH if the holy warriors wont do such noble acts?
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Smok
02-09-2006, 08:53 PM
I'm not muslim but I think, that if Allah exist he will terrible punish these animals who killed children. Killing children is the most evil thing ever!
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Jez
02-09-2006, 09:27 PM
Smok

I agree, no true soldiers involve children in a straight-up fight, even if the other side (the russians) lower themselves to such depths of cowardice, copying such actions is reprehensible, and not worthy of any religion or warrior code.

The Chechen freedom fighters had the moral high ground, and widespread international support until Beslan and the theatre siege in Moscow, now the international community see's them as terrorists and not freedom fighters, which is a pity, as the Russians deserve to be driven from all occupied lands.

Jez
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Smok
02-09-2006, 10:11 PM
Yes - I support all freedom fighters. But only if they fight against soldiers not agains civilians or kids.
Real warrior don't hurt innocent and unarmed people. Only coward do this.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
02-09-2006, 10:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Smok
Yes - I support all freedom fighters. But only if they fight against soldiers not agains civilians or kids.
Real warrior don't hurt innocent and unarmed people. Only coward do this.
Agreed.
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minaz
02-09-2006, 10:37 PM
Let them become anti islamic....nothing to worry about, ALLAH will take care of them, and burn them in hellfire. and the brave commander is alive and active, he can make yet another attempt to please his ALLAH the islamic way. Long live noble mujahideens, the humanity needs them, otherwise how can there be rule of ALLAH if the holy warriors wont do such noble acts?
Oi go follow Dorothy and Todo, don't post again till you've met the Wizard of Oz
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north_malaysian
02-10-2006, 01:53 AM
If the Chechens are not coward people go and attack russian soldiers ONLY in their barracks or camps. Not children or civilians in schools, theatres etc.
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abdul Majid
02-10-2006, 02:48 AM
Salam Alakum Brother...

Just Wanted To Say Alot Of Ppl Here Do Not Think Badly Of Chech..infact We Wish All The Brothers In Sisters To Stay Strong And Be Paitent...with Every Hardship Comes Ease....inshallah ...
May Allah(swt) Help You All And Guide You... Salam Alakum
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justahumane
02-10-2006, 07:55 AM
Oi go follow Dorothy and Todo, don't post again till you've met the Wizard of Oz
:uhwhat :?
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abdul Majid
02-12-2006, 02:51 AM
uhhh o k
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SilentObserver
01-14-2007, 07:35 PM
There is no justification for this cowardly act. These pigs will roast in hell for what they did to those children.
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Chechnya
01-14-2007, 07:45 PM
There is no justification for this cowardly act. These pigs will roast in hell for what they did to those children.
sure they will :rollseyes
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SilentObserver
01-14-2007, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechnya
sure they will :rollseyes
You expect they will be rewarded for terrorizing and raping children?
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SATalha
01-14-2007, 07:55 PM
We need to understand that sometimes our views and thoughts are created by the western media? If you see some of the things that i have seen than your opinion will change. The Russians did many things to my brothers and sisters and that damage has been imbeded within the people. The things that they went through is more than enough to make a man insane. Despiration leads to desperate acts.
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Chechen
01-14-2007, 07:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
There is no justification for this cowardly act. These pigs will roast in hell for what they did to those children.
No they won't cause they didn't do anything. If you call them terrorists then call all of us Chechens terrorists because we fully support them.
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SilentObserver
01-14-2007, 08:07 PM
If any person supports putting the lives of children at risk, and threatening to kill them to further their cause, then they need mental help.
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Chechen
01-14-2007, 08:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
If any person supports putting the lives of children at risk, and threatening to kill them to further their cause, then they need mental help.

Oh yeah sure who cares if 300 000 Chechens among them 45 000 children have died these last 12 years. But you have to realise 300 Russian children died! Oh my god. We don't care about the Chechens they're dirty muslims anyway.
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SilentObserver
01-14-2007, 08:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechen
Oh yeah sure who cares if 300 000 Chechens among them 45 000 children have died these last 12 years. But you have to realise 300 Russian children died! Oh my god. We don't care about the Chechens they're dirty muslims anyway.
You seem to know me well.

I don't support any children being killed anywhere. Not chechen, not russian, not any. Any person that puts a child at risk to further any cause is a worthless coward.
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Chechen
01-14-2007, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
You seem to know me well.

I don't support any children being killed anywhere. Not chechen, not russian, not any. Any person that puts a child at risk to further any cause is a worthless coward.

Worse is the one that orders their death.
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SilentObserver
01-14-2007, 09:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechen
Worse is the one that orders their death.
One is as bad as the other, and that certainly does not justify what these terrorists did at Beslan school.
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Chechen
01-14-2007, 09:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
One is as bad as the other, and that certainly does not justify what these terrorists did at Beslan school.

After going through every kind of terrible torture all your life you will see that even you will be desperate and ready to do anything extreme. They wanted to stop the war as fast as possible. Of course it's bad that the children died but that's not what was in their plan they didn't plan for anyone to die.
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AmarFaisal
01-14-2007, 09:54 PM
It is a shame that we Muslims and our leaders r so weak today that we cannot stand together against the attrocities towards Muslims:(
This forces our brave Mujahideen from all around the world to act wrongly. Taking children hostage and suicide bombings of innocent civilians r all wrong acts. I guess, this is the frustration of the Mujahedeen, who r fighting evil.:(
very sad!!
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AHMED_GUREY
01-14-2007, 09:56 PM
Interesting how WWII leaders are praised for their actions wich included the unnecessary bombings of Dresden( yes there were innocent children living there) by Churchill and the atomic bombs on Japan ( yes little kids were wiped out aswell) by Truman

If there names aren't dented by these actions but praised as heroes because they in time of war were cornered and claimed they were left with no choice but to act,why should i pull Shamil's name through the mud when he felt the same way about the war his people are fighting against Russia who commits thousands of beslan's? and when it went wrong he apologized, i think that shows the man has morals and character and is nothing like the stereotype of him being a bloodthirsty child killer!

not many military leaders have the courage to admit their mistakes and apologize for it!
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SilentObserver
01-14-2007, 10:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechen
After going through every kind of terrible torture all your life you will see that even you will be desperate and ready to do anything extreme. They wanted to stop the war as fast as possible. Of course it's bad that the children died but that's not what was in their plan they didn't plan for anyone to die.
There is no justification. Pathetic, worthless cowards. There can be no sympathy for them, they are not even worthy of contempt. They terrorized children. They are pigs. There is no defense for anyone that would do this to children.
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Keltoi
01-14-2007, 11:19 PM
The same old defense....paraphrase("We were so mistreated that butchering 200 children can be justified") Pathetic and actually frightening. I suppose you would support a U.S. military unit capturing an Islamic school and murdering 200 children because Muslims have been responsible for atrocities against Americans? If you want to talk about hypocrisy be consistent, otherwise you are calling the kettle black.
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Trumble
01-15-2007, 12:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
There is no justification. Pathetic, worthless cowards. There can be no sympathy for them, they are not even worthy of contempt. They terrorized children. They are pigs. There is no defense for anyone that would do this to children.

Hear, hear. There are no excuses for such actions, and trying to make them is, frankly, pathetic.

This incident was an absolute disaster to the Chechen cause. It achieved nothing apart from causing what had been considerable support from outside Russia to dry up completely. The Russians had claimed they were fighting their own "war on terror", and overnight Beslan made it impossible to deny that that must be at least partly true. I would have thought Chechens would condemn those responsible for treachery and total incompetence, even if murdering children doesn't bother them.
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Chechnya
01-15-2007, 12:27 AM
I think what it cmoes down to is whose children are dying.

About 40,000 Chechen children have been killed - Putin has received support and the slow genocide of the Chechen population is accepted. Their hasnt been a massive outcry over this - in fact quite the opposite, most world leaders are willing to meet and greet him. No talk of terrorism their.

Someone reacts in a desperate attempt to stop the slaughter of his people and 300 people die and all of a sudden its the worst thing ever.

People should never involve children, right? - so why are democratically elected leaders in the west supporting child murderer Putin?

If your so worried about children dying in this conflict where was the outcry when it was just Chechen children being slaughtered before beslan?

How many children have the democratically elected leaders of the US, UK and Israel killed in their various conflicts? Oh sorry that was just "collateral damage"...:rollseyes

As i said it all depends on whose child you happen to be.
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SilentObserver
01-15-2007, 12:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechnya
I think what it cmoes down to is whose children are dying.

About 40,000 Chechen children have been killed - Putin has received support and the slow genocide of the Chechen population is accepted. Their hasnt been a massive outcry over this - in fact quite the opposite, most world leaders are willing to meet and greet him. No talk of terrorism their.

Someone reacts in a desperate attempt to stop the slaughter of his people and 300 people die and all of a sudden its the worst thing ever.

People should never involve children, right? - so why are democratically elected leaders in the west supporting child murderer Putin?

If your so worried about children dying in this conflict where was the outcry when it was just Chechen children being slaughtered before beslan?

How many children have the democratically elected leaders of the US, UK and Israel killed in their various conflicts? Oh sorry that was just "collateral damage"...:rollseyes

As i said it all depends on whose child you happen to be.
Hey, you are the one portraying the murderers of children as heroes here.

Nobody said anything about any other children being killed. You bring that up now to distract from the topic. We are talking about Beslan, not the US, UK or Israel. Children being killed anywhere by anyone is wrong, period.
These pigs at Beslan cannot be defended. They will burn for what they did to those children. It is immoral, and disgusting to think that anyone would defend the murder and terrorizing of children, for any cause.

The "brave" fighters took children as hostages. Why not soldiers, construction workers, or an office building? Because they were cowards and went after the easiest targets. Children. What's next? A senior citizens home?



format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Hear, hear. There are no excuses for such actions, and trying to make them is, frankly, pathetic.

This incident was an absolute disaster to the Chechen cause. It achieved nothing apart from causing what had been considerable support from outside Russia to dry up completely. The Russians had claimed they were fighting their own "war on terror", and overnight Beslan made it impossible to deny that that must be at least partly true. I would have thought Chechens would condemn those responsible for treachery and total incompetence, even if murdering children doesn't bother them.
I thought the same thing.
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Chechnya
01-15-2007, 12:51 AM
Hey, you are the one portraying the murderers of children as heroes here.
Shamil Basayev is a hero for all that he has done previously for the Chechen cause but not for Beslan.



Nobody said anything about any other children being killed. You bring that up now to distract from the topic. We are talking about Beslan, not the US, UK or Israel.
Just proved my point - you are only willing to talk about non-muslim children and not the crimes which are carried out by western nations.
If your so against kids dying, theres no harm in discussing it either - in fact it relates directly to this discussion. To what extent should children be involved in wars.
Beslan is off-limits to you obviously (me too) so what about bombing cities from the air KNOWING hundreds/thousands of children are gonne die in the process - acceptable or not?





The "brave" fighters took children as hostages. Why not soldiers, construction workers, or an office building? Because they were cowards and went after the easiest targets. Children. What's next? A senior citizens home?
Well if you study the course of the chechn-russian war, you will see those that fought say in the battle for grozny - like the leader of the hostage-takers did - are quite clearly not cowards.

Facing the worst bombardment since the second world war with no air cover to portect you and only a rifle to fight back with takes an unbelievable amount of courage, im sure you'd agree?

Im pretty sure no-one in this forum could manage that :D
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snakelegs
01-15-2007, 01:01 AM
i'm not sure about beslan specifically, but this litvinenko (the russian spy) case has some really interesting allegations re: chechnian terrorism.
if true, some of these terrorist attacks that have been attributed to the chechnians, were actually carried out by the russian secret police.
here's a thread with some of the info:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...-chechnya.html
i don't know if the truth will ever come out.
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SilentObserver
01-15-2007, 01:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechnya
Shamil Basayev is a hero
Shamil Basayev was, and forever will be, a piece of garbage that attacked and killed civilians, including hundreds of children.

format_quote Originally Posted by Chechnya
Just proved my point - you are only willing to talk about non-muslim children and not the crimes which are carried out by western nations.
:D
Start a thread about the killing of children anywhere else, and you will find out what I think about the killing of kids anywhere. This thread is about Beslan, and the pig's that killed children there.
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SilentObserver
01-15-2007, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i'm not sure about beslan specifically, but this litvinenko (the russian spy) case has some really interesting allegations re: chechnian terrorism.
if true, some of these terrorist attacks that have been attributed to the chechnians, were actually carried out by the russian secret police.
here's a thread with some of the info:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...-chechnya.html
i don't know if the truth will ever come out.
litvinenko has been proven to have been somewhat of a nutcase. He made many outrageous claims including that he had video of Putin engaged in homosexual sex.
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Chechnya
01-15-2007, 01:18 AM
Shamil Basayev was, and forever will be, a piece of garbage that attacked and killed civilians, including hundreds of children.
Sure he will mate

Carry on taking the pills :mmokay:

Start a thread about the killing of children anywhere else, and you will find out what I think about the killing of kids anywhere. This thread is about Beslan, and the pig's that killed children there
Your casual side-step of the questions asked leads me to think that you believe in some cases it is OK for children to be killed.

I.e if children are killed in Kabul or Baghdad because of ariel bombardment - im sure you would put a different spin on it - am i correct or am i correct?

So it seems after all this arguing and wasting of my time - you do believe children can be killed in war but for you it is the manner of their death
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AHMED_GUREY
01-15-2007, 01:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Start a thread about the killing of children anywhere else, and you will find out what I think about the killing of kids anywhere. This thread is about Beslan, and the pig's that killed children there.
topic 13 year old Palestianian schoolgirl "riddled with bullets" by IDF

your first reply

format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
This happened over two years ago. Isn't the world affairs section for current world affairs?
funny how passionate you are about an incident that involved non muslim kids evendo it happened 2 years ago but don't show the same passion when it involves muslim kids because it happened 2 years ago

hmmm....
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snakelegs
01-15-2007, 02:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
litvinenko has been proven to have been somewhat of a nutcase. He made many outrageous claims including that he had video of Putin engaged in homosexual sex.
i haven't seen anything about this case for awhile. do you have any links?
i'd appreciate.
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SilentObserver
01-15-2007, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
Start a thread about the killing of children anywhere else, and you will find out what I think about the killing of kids anywhere. This thread is about Beslan, and the pig's that killed children there.
topic 13 year old Palestianian schoolgirl "riddled with bullets" by IDF

your first reply

This happened over two years ago. Isn't the world affairs section for current world affairs?
funny how passionate you are about an incident that involved non muslim kids evendo it happened 2 years ago but don't show the same passion when it involves muslim kids because it happened 2 years ago

hmmm....
Nice try. But any person with intelligence can see the difference in situations. The purpose of the schoolgirl thread was not anyone defending child murderers, it was the tired old routine of anti-sematic, "look at the horrible jews" that gets played too often here.

This thread's purpose was to defend the intentional terrorizing of children. The purpose of this thread is deplorable.
There is an obvious difference between the purpose of both threads, and both were responded to accordingly.

In the other thread, I was asked if I felt sorry for the girl. I responded no, that I felt sorry for her mother. The girl is in a better place than us now.

Now, if I had been asked specifically in the other thread what I thought about a soldier emptying his clip into a girl at close range, I would have said something like the following; "If the witness account is correct that the soldier did this, then he is a worthless piece of garbage just like Shamil Basayev. The both of them can burn in hell.
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AHMED_GUREY
01-15-2007, 02:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Nice try. But any person with intelligence can see the difference in situations.
Translation : when stating on this thread that i was a neutral person when it came to discussing atrocities committed on kids i totally forgot about this old reply i made wich showed my true colors

the lack of interest from your side regarding that incident speaks for itself!

The purpose of the schoolgirl thread was not anyone defending child murderers, it was the tired old routine of anti-sematic,
members that highlight what's happening to their people are anti-semetic?

do you understand a words meaning before you utter it? do you even know the difference between a semite and non semite? arabs speak a semitic language they are semites, so how can LI members who put out news reports that state facts where innocent Falistinians are killed by IDF be acussed of being anti-semetic when the victims there reporting about are semites themselves ?

it's bassicly an oxymoron :)

again you exposed your inability to defend your ''cold'' reply from an earlier topic where mysteriously this heated passion for children was nowhere to be seen :exhausted and now your blaming it on your prejudged inaccurate claim of everything posted by members who are concerned with their fellow muslim brothers and sisters as a silly anti-semitic routine and therefore we should all take your example and reply in that manner right? :X

:)
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SilentObserver
01-15-2007, 03:08 AM
Read the old thread again fruitcake. Why would I feel sorry for the girl? She's moved on, while we are all stuck here. I don't feel sorry for her, I envy her.

I don't need to defend what I said, there was nothing wrong with it. And if asked again, I would reply the same.

Your foolish attempt to portray me as someone that condones the killing of children, can easily be shown to be a fool's mumbling by a simple search of my past posts.

I am against violence toward any children, anywhere. Always have been. Always will be. Children are innocent. "freedom fighters" (a.k.a. cowardly losers) that take them hostage, should be fed to their brethern, the pigs.
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SilentObserver
01-15-2007, 03:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
Translation : when stating on this thread that i was a neutral person when it came to discussing atrocities committed on kids i totally forgot about this old reply i made wich showed my true colors
That's quite stupid, really. I don't need to bother remembering my old posts, because my opinion will not have changed on such an obvious topic. And you are right, it did show my true colors, and they are still the same; Victimizing children is wrong, and those that do are worthless pigs.

If you lack the capacity to understand the meaning of my post in another thread, I can't help you. If you didn't get it then, it is unlikely you will get it now.
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AHMED_GUREY
01-15-2007, 03:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Read the old thread again fruitcake.
cakes aside

Originally Posted by Chechnya
Just proved my point - you are only willing to talk about non-muslim children and not the crimes which are carried out by western nations.
you
Start a thread about the killing of children anywhere else, and you will find out what I think about the killing of kids anywhere. This thread is about Beslan, and the pig's that killed children there.
with this reply you ''dare'' chechnya to highlight the atrocities committed on children from different regions by starting a different topic and you would show the same passionate love you have for other kids from different backgrounds than the ones from Beslan your currently are showing it to but i bassicly showed you that isn't necessary because..

A your reply on a old topic was evidence enough of wich children you value most and wich you simply value less!

B you then shot yourself in the foot when you exposed your reason behind the old palistinian topic ''post'' by coming with the acussation of LI members having a anti-semitic routine and therefore we should all look at wether these incidents were current if not reply and inquire why they are posted in the first place and simply not care about the highlighted atrocity

Why would I feel sorry for the girl?
you don't feel sorry for people who go through injustice?

what sparked your animal calling if that's not it?

She's moved on
but the injustice continues

Your foolish attempt to portray me as someone that condones the killing of children, can easily be shown to be a fool's mumbling by a simple search of my past posts.
lol that's interesting considering the fact i never tried to portray you as someone that ''condones'' violence on children the misinterpreting of my post by you is not my fault i simply highlighted the lack of interest from your side simple as that:)

I am against violence toward any children, anywhere. Always have been. Always will be. Children are innocent.
that's good:)

"freedom fighters" (a.k.a. cowardly losers) that take them hostage, should be fed to their brethern, the pigs.
Russians aren't freedom fighters so you need to expand that category!
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SilentObserver
01-15-2007, 04:20 AM
Clearly you either choose to misrepresent my words, or you lack the capacity to see otherwise.
It would seem that if you simply choose to misrepresent my words, then you are only interested in one thing. Winning an arguement. There is no benefit to either of us in this. Winning an arguement based on untruths is a shallow victory. It does not mean you have proven anything, only that you won a contest.
Interestingly enough, you made a post very much like the one of mine that you are obsessed with.

format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
baby is going to Jannah insha-allah

sometimes i really dislike this world to the point where i really hope and wish for Jugdement day to arrive and it's game over for everybody

i feel sad for the mother something bad must have presured her

:
It's no different then your post here, in a thread about a baby thrown into the toilet by it's mother. You didn't say you felt sorry for the baby, you said it's gone to Jannah. In fact you also said you felt sorry for the mother. Both opinions, just like mine. I also eluded to something you said here without saying it;
sometimes i really dislike this world to the point where i really hope and wish for Jugdement day to arrive and it's game over for everybody
when I said;
The girl is in a better place than us now.
Whether you want to admit it or not, you are trying to expose a fault in my thinking where there is none. In fact, you and I responded almost identically, in both our posts. Perhaps there is something about your own thinking that you dislike?
A your reply on a old topic was evidence enough of wich children you value most and wich you simply value less!

B you then shot yourself in the foot when you exposed your reason behind the old palistinian topic ''post'' by coming with the acussation of LI members having a anti-semitic routine and therefore we should all look at wether these incidents were current if not reply and inquire why they are posted in the first place and simply not care about the highlighted atrocity
Again, read carefully here. The purpose of this thread was to defend child murderers. That is repulsive, of course I would speak up. The purpose of the other thread was only to spread more anger and hate towards people from Israel. I oppose such hatemongering, and made my statement accordingly.

you don't feel sorry for people who go through injustice?
While they are alive, yes, very much so. After they are dead, no. I then shift my sympathies to the family they leave behind. The dead (if they are children) have moved on to a better place.
i simply highlighted the lack of interest from your side simple as that
You seem to have misinterpreted my anger toward hatemongering, as a lack of interest for the killing of innocent people. I tackled the more important issue that was at hand, the member that started that thread(who is now banned), was only hate mongering. Consistent with his behaviour up to that point.

We can easily turn this upside down if you like. You accuse me of being indifferent toward palestinian children being killed(which I assure you I am not, I want to explode whenever I see images of any children harmed in war:grumbling ).
I think that you are indifferent to the killing of nonmuslim children. You are so quick to defend the muslims of the world, that you couldn't care less about the children that they harm. 'Just a bunch of kafir children anyway. At least they were not muslim children.' You were so quick to prove me wrong. Not a word about the children that were killed. All you care about is proving the kafir wrong. Shows your true colors.
You oppose me so passionately, if only you had one ounce of compassion left to spare for the children that suffered. But not a word about them. You showed where your priorities are, just prove the kafir wrong.
Reply

snakelegs
01-15-2007, 04:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
litvinenko has been proven to have been somewhat of a nutcase. He made many outrageous claims including that he had video of Putin engaged in homosexual sex.
second try
can you or anyone else direct me to a link that says that litvinenko has been proven to have been a nutcase???
Reply

SilentObserver
01-15-2007, 04:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
second try
can you or anyone else direct me to a link that says that litvinenko has been proven to have been a nutcase???
Hi Snakelegs,
Proof that he is a nutcase would be as hard to provide as proof that he is not.
But I assure you, if you do a Google search with "litvinenko nutcase", you will have plenty of reading material. Accusations of among other things, links to Al Qaida. Who knows what is true, and what isn't. But with so much to ponder, it makes it difficult to believe anything said by him, or about him.

Just a few links;
http://www.matthewyglesias.com/archi...great_power_c/
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/news/ar...-time-kgb-spy/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1748022/posts
http://middleeastnews.blogdrive.com/...-2006_o-0.html
Reply

snakelegs
01-15-2007, 04:40 AM
thanks, silent. will check them out.
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
01-15-2007, 07:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Clearly you either choose to misrepresent my words, or you lack the capacity to see otherwise.
It would seem that if you simply choose to misrepresent my words, then you are only interested in one thing. Winning an arguement. There is no benefit to either of us in this. Winning an arguement based on untruths is a shallow victory. It does not mean you have proven anything, only that you won a contest.
Friend your taking this Cyberworld way to serious winning or losing means nothing to me if i have offended you with my posts i apologize

my quote
baby is going to Jannah insha-allah

sometimes i really dislike this world to the point where i really hope and wish for Jugdement day to arrive and it's game over for everybody

i feel sad for the mother something bad must have presured her
your post
It's no different then your post here, in a thread about a baby thrown into the toilet by it's mother. You didn't say you felt sorry for the baby,
there is a difference between your first reaction to a horrible incident and mine

baby is going to Jannah insha-allah
i was wishing and hoping that this baby received what every muslim on this planet hopes to enter one day

you said it's gone to Jannah.
''Insha-allah'' that's the keyword here

In fact you also said you felt sorry for the mother.
I still do!

Both opinions, just like mine. I also eluded to something you said here without saying it;
there were no red herrings in my first reply in that baby topic you on the other hand changed the attention from the horrible event to the ''date'' of the incident

I oppose such hatemongering, and made my statement accordingly.
If a Japanese kid childishly named President Truman by an animal name everytime he tried to put his point across regarding the bombings of his people would he be seen as an unstable ad hominem fuelled hatemongerer or a rational debater?

You seem to have misinterpreted my anger toward hatemongering, as a lack of interest for the killing of innocent people.
no not really i remember you as a newbie making a thread with a gross generalization of Middle Easterners by calling them violent

remember?
Why are people from the middle east so violent? It never ends. Car bombs. Suicide bombers. Gunmen. School attacks. When they are not trying to kill someone else, they are trying to kill each other. Palestinians on verge of civil war. Kill your political opponents children. Beheadings. Masked faces waving guns in the air. Teach children to hate. Fight, kill, violent protest. Shoot teachers in front of students. Shoot women and children in car. Qassam rockets. And on, and on, and on......kill, kill, kill, kill.
Why?
Life means nothing to them it seems. Life seems to have little or no value. Why?
so when i encountered the Palistinian topic i sensed something sinister from you but you can't blame me after reading your ''mid easterners prone to violence?'' topic now can you?

I tackled the more important issue that was at hand, the member that started that thread(who is now banned), was only hate mongering. Consistent with his behaviour up to that point.
of the 5 topics this brother made only 2 were dedicated to Palistine/Israel

and i'm not so sure wether he was banned since i have seen this happen to many members that switched their names

We can easily turn this upside down if you like.
ok:)

You accuse me of being indifferent toward palestinian children being killed(which I assure you I am not, I want to explode whenever I see images of any children harmed in war :grumbling ).
nice :)

I think that you are indifferent to the killing of nonmuslim children. You are so quick to defend the muslims of the world, that you couldn't care less about the children that they harm.
a member posted this disturbing post days ago

If a Republican would have been in office it would have led to the destruction of Somalia, so in that respect, even though I wanted revenge, it was better to leave and not destroy Somalia.
my reply

hundreds of civilians of my country were killed in one day for demonstrating and still i don't wish any harm to American civilians or want revenge
:D good day
Reply

SATalha
01-15-2007, 09:25 AM
Children killing In any case is sad, but why is it that what the Russians did does not get any attention or the Serbians or the Isrealis.... Although i disagree with what happened in Beslan, I am in full support of our people in Chechnya.
Reply

Chechen
01-15-2007, 09:31 PM
You know what? I just read through the posts in this thread and noticed that no matter what we say we won't convince Silent and no matter what he says he won't convince us. So basically we're just losing our time here. Beslan happened and we can't change that so we should just get over it.
Reply

SilentObserver
01-17-2007, 06:44 AM
I wonder if the families that lost thier children, fathers, mothers, brothers, and sisters at Beslan can just 'get over it'? The child that relives watching a terrorist kill his father in front of him, each night in his dreams. And goes each day missing his father terribly. Or the mother whose child died in her arms. I wonder if they can just, 'get over it'?
Reply

Chechen
01-17-2007, 01:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
I wonder if the families that lost thier children, fathers, mothers, brothers, and sisters at Beslan can just 'get over it'? The child that relives watching a terrorist kill his father in front of him, each night in his dreams. And goes each day missing his father terribly. Or the mother whose child died in her arms. I wonder if they can just, 'get over it'?

Listen it happened and none of us is able to change that. Is us sitting here and arguing going to change anything? I have lost family and very close friends in war too. Of course I still remember them every day but I try to tell myself that it was Allah's will. It's the past and we can't change it. Unless you have some time machine to go into the past, then tell us.
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SilentObserver
01-18-2007, 07:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechen
Listen it happened and none of us is able to change that. Is us sitting here and arguing going to change anything? I have lost family and very close friends in war too. Of course I still remember them every day but I try to tell myself that it was Allah's will. It's the past and we can't change it. Unless you have some time machine to go into the past, then tell us.
The purpose of remembering the past is to learn from it, that is why history is taught in schools.
So when we remember Beslan, one thing to learn is that people like Shamil Basayev are ruthless, rabid dogs. We should recognize them, and never give them the chance to even get started, or we will pay with our families lives. Stop them in their tracks before they even know what happened.

So, get over it? Whatever. I choose to learn.
Reply

Battle_4_Peace
01-18-2007, 03:33 PM
:sl:

Islam is indeed against killing innocent people, like women, children, elderly etc. I agree, but the media is usually not telling us the whole story.

:w:
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Chechen
01-18-2007, 06:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
The purpose of remembering the past is to learn from it, that is why history is taught in schools.
So when we remember Beslan, one thing to learn is that people like Shamil Basayev are ruthless, rabid dogs. We should recognize them, and never give them the chance to even get started, or we will pay with our families lives. Stop them in their tracks before they even know what happened.

So, get over it? Whatever. I choose to learn.

Yeah I agree with you we have to learn from the past but not argue over who's right and who's wrong cause we could go on forever.
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SilentObserver
01-19-2007, 07:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechen
Yeah I agree with you we have to learn from the past but not argue over who's right and who's wrong cause we could go on forever.
No need to argue. It is obvious that it is always wrong under any circumstances to terrorize and murder children. You can pretend all you want, but you know that what Basayev has done was wrong and evil.
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Chechen
01-19-2007, 11:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
No need to argue. It is obvious that it is always wrong under any circumstances to terrorize and murder children. You can pretend all you want, but you know that what Basayev has done was wrong and evil.
Umm no I'm not pretending and there's no need to pretend. Shamil is a hero. Putin is a pig. END.
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Keltoi
01-19-2007, 01:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechen
Umm no I'm not pretending and there's no need to pretend. Shamil is a hero. Putin is a pig. END.
...and you want people to believe you have the moral high ground?
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aamirsaab
01-19-2007, 01:39 PM
:sl:
Oooookay, I think this thread could do with a little time out so I'm going to lock it for now.

feel free to PM me if you have a problem with me doing so.
Reply

Pygoscelis
01-19-2007, 02:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechnya
I.e if children are killed in Kabul or Baghdad because of ariel bombardment - im sure you would put a different spin on it - am i correct or am i correct?
You seem to be firmly attached to this straw man.

Silentobserver never said that he/she endorsed the killing of muslim children. It is pathetic that you would try to spin him/her or anyone else this way just for condemning this event.

As posted earlier, if you want to discuss killing of children and hostage taking in general, that would be a different thread. I don't think its really necesary thogh because I doubt anybody would disagree that such things are horrible in any case, muslim or non-muslim, christian or non christian, american or non american, russian or non russian, etc etc
Reply

Chechnya
01-19-2007, 02:53 PM
You seem to be firmly attached to this straw man.

Silentobserver never said that he/she endorsed the killing of muslim children. It is pathetic that you would try to spin him/her or anyone else this way just for condemning this event.

As posted earlier, if you want to discuss killing of children and hostage taking in general, that would be a different thread. I don't think its really necesary thogh because I doubt anybody would disagree that such things are horrible in any case, muslim or non-muslim, christian or non christian, american or non american, russian or non russian, etc etc
Then why do these countries vote in child-killers into power? :rollseyes

Russians supported Putin again despite his child-murdering antics in Chechnya.
Americans voted Bush again despite his murderous missions in Afghanistan and Iraq?
As for Ariel Sharon...

Is the blood of our children so cheap to you guys that people cannot bring themselves to elect someone whose hands isnt steeped in Muslim blood?
Reply

aamirsaab
01-19-2007, 03:03 PM
:sl:
oops, forgot to lock this one.


I'll reopen it later, maybe, if you're good. Right now things are getting a little heated and my instincts say 'lock it'. I'll probably have to delete a few posts too as I sense this has happened atleast once.

Time out folks, have a break have a kit-kat.
Reply

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