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View Full Version : Cartoons in Europe, whats your opinion....



Shereen
02-11-2006, 02:15 PM
Are you angered by the fact that the Europeans print ANY picture of our prophet or is it the fact that they make him look like a terrorist?

Personally I find the cartoons depecting our prophet to be in poor taste and very insulting. As a muslim I understand that we chose not to portray the prophet in any picture or statue, but can we really expect non believers to abide by our beliefs? Of course not. Similarly in the US white hristians may not like to think of Jesus as a black man but black christians see nothing wrong with portraying him that way. There are those that disagree with it and are offended by it but they can not force others to do away with the pictures.

On the current issue about the cartoons in Europe, it does not anger me so much that they draw a picture of the prophet but it certainly offends me that they attempt to make him look like a terrorist, with a bomb on his head. Even in my anger though, I can not sympathize with or condone the actions of the violent protesters. Granted, a peaceful protest may not get favorable results, but violence only helps to fuel hatred toward all muslims world wide. In addition, violent acts only lend support to the very idea the cartoon was intending to foster - that muslims are not peaceful people and that we are all terrorists. This is not the way I want ppl to see me or my religion. I pray the violence comes to a stop and is replaced by peaceful protests and boycotts.
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Smok
02-11-2006, 08:34 PM
Salaam

1. Free speech is most important thing.
2. I'm against any law which will restrict freedom of speech.
3. These cartoons were stupid and had no sense. These pictures did nothing good but only troubles.
Conclusion.
These cartoons shouldn't be printed but that restriction shouldn't be make by law. It should be an "internal" restriction. I will never print them but I will never make law which restrict freedom of speech.

Maa salama
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Ghazi
02-11-2006, 08:39 PM
Salaam

These cartoons shouldn't be printed but that restriction shouldn't be make by law. It should be an "internal" restriction. I will never print them but I will never make law which restrict freedom of speech.
That will be good if we lived in a world were everyone had morals but we don't so there should be laws and I feel anyone that looks at the cartoons and says freedom of speech there guilty as the people who drew them.
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Smok
02-11-2006, 08:42 PM
But there is one danger. If we can forbid to draw caricatures of Muhammad then politicals will go forward and forbid to draw caricatures of them, later they will prohibit any critical opinions about goverment.
In Europe we had this - Hitler, Stalin... All of them started from light censorship. :(
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Ghazi
02-11-2006, 08:46 PM
Salaam

later they will prohibit any critical opinions about goverment.
I havn't got a problem with this, as I believe that this country should be run under the sharia law and I wouldn't want anyone saying anything against it.
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afriend
02-11-2006, 08:46 PM
My opinion is that it is clear that the west is against us.

Also, I think if we can't do anything constructive that will resolve this situation, then we shouldn't try and cause corruption within the lands!!

So many people say they are going to do this and that, but how many of you attended the Demonstration at Trafalgar Square (i don't expect people from the US to go there, but atleast those who reside in London)?

Well? Ponder over that, unless you had a good excuse, you should have gone to the demo, instead of sitting in front of the computer screen, inciting violence and hatred but then doing apsolutely nothing.

That is clearly hypocricy, those who couldn't be bothered to go!

Don't mean to offend anybody, but just saying what i think.
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Ghazi
02-11-2006, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
My opinion is that it is clear that the west is against us.

Also, I think if we can't do anything constructive that will resolve this situation, then we shouldn't try and cause corruption within the lands!!

So many people say they are going to do this and that, but how many of you attended the Demonstration at Trafalgar Square (i don't expect people from the US to go there, but atleast those who reside in London)?

Well? Ponder over that, unless you had a good excuse, you should have gone to the demo, instead of sitting in front of the computer screen, inciting violence and hatred but then doing apsolutely nothing.

That is clearly hypocricy, those who couldn't be bothered to go!

Don't mean to offend anybody, but just saying what i think.
Salaam

Well I watched on 'islam channel' since I live in Liverpool but i'll be there next saturday (inshallah)
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afriend
02-11-2006, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

Well I watched on 'islam channel' since I live in Liverpool but i'll be there next saturday (inshallah)
Subhaanallah brother, ur comin all the way 2 London?

May Allah bles u and the whole Muslim ummah.

But the thing is, i think you will be very angry to hear this, but there are some who live in London, but they just don't bother....It makes me sick!!!:grumbling :hiding:
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Ghazi
02-11-2006, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Subhaanallah brother, ur comin all the way 2 London?

May Allah bles u and the whole Muslim ummah.

But the thing is, i think you will be very angry to hear this, but there are some who live in London, but they just don't bother....It makes me sick!!!:grumbling :hiding:
Salaam

Well the protest was well orginised, coaches will be leaving from every major city will be leaving striaght after fajar.
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The Ruler
02-11-2006, 09:35 PM
u no wat....dis cartoon fink doesnt really effect me da way it does to som ppl...i mean i dont break up or shout n scream my frustrations out.
i jus sort of v a weird feelin dats all :? :rollseyes :rollseyes
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Kittygyal
02-11-2006, 09:42 PM
well as me self n uder muzlim can't bare to see our muzlim brovaz n sisterz getin hurt r our loved one...
no how can we let that just fade away no way that's not going to happen!!
we should all stand up for our religion and a mean our religion!
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Samee
02-11-2006, 10:29 PM
:sl:

Muslims number in the billions across the world and they have every right to be offended by the crude, insulting cartoons. However, it seems to me that the Western media seems only to wish to react to the extreme Islamists who are carrying out acts of violence and making outrageous calls for revenge in response. By focusing on this reaction, they are taking them seriously.

By ignoring the billions of normal Muslims and many moderate Muslim commentators who aren't calling for any kind of violent reaction towards the cartoons, the media is simply marginalising Islam as a whole. It's freaking stupid. The media and ordinary Western people play right into the hands of the muslims every single time something like this comes up, they push ordinary Muslims further and further into the margins. It's like me asking some ordinary Christian American why he's such a goddamn moron who hates fags.

Scew the western media to the pits of the hellfire.
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Shereen
02-12-2006, 06:31 AM
Well I have to agree with those of you who brought up the issue of western media. As some of you may already know Im currently in the US but have lived in a Muslim country as well, and certainly hope to return soon. I can see first hand that the media here is definately biased and helps to perpetuate hatred toward Muslims. But what annoys me more than the media, is the fact that the majority of the general public take no responsibility for thier own minds. They make no effort to educate themselves, or dont bother to listen to anyone with a different oppinion. Instead they just follow blindly in the footsteps of the herd and accept whatever reality the media is selling this week. :grumbling
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wysiwyg
02-12-2006, 09:02 AM
To quote LI Oldtimer
I havn't got a problem with this, as I believe that this country should be run under the sharia law and I wouldn't want anyone saying anything against it.
This is why westerners have a problem with Islam. Islam brings with it a legal system and naturally any attempt to express Islamic ideology within a western country results in conflict because there is already a perfectly good legal system to be found there. It's as simple as that. Either you downgrade Shari'a from a law to an ethic, overtake the country through force of numbers or live in misery. It is your choice. If you take the second option then you had better be ready to do more than just make threats, because when it comes to fighting for freedom, westerners are notorious.

I assume that you LI Oldtimer are an "ordinary Muslim" and not an extremist. In which case, it is not just the extremists that we have issues with.
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Ghazi
02-12-2006, 12:00 PM
Salaam

it is not just the extremists that we have issues with.
I'm not an extremists but do you care to explain the above
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sumay28
02-12-2006, 12:23 PM
The cartoons insulted me. It was a disguisting portrayal of our prophet (saw). Depicting him as terrorist, thereby, making us all look like terrorists. They mocked our religion. May Allah grant them guidance, and if guidance isn't written for them... i'll just leave it at that.

About the protests. I agree with the protests, and another side of me does not. I think that the cartoons were direcly to insult us, and it's purpose was fufilled... they got a rise out of the Muslims. They caused a bit of mayham. I understand why people took a stand on it. Now... I have seen a lot of movies, cartoons, etc. depicting ALLAH!! I saw a movie a while back ago where Alanis Moressette played a God who didn't speak! I've seen many many many movies, seen many cartoons, and heard many jokes about Allah himself!! Why didn't the Muslim community bite down on that one? Or what about depictions of Isa (as)? Moosa (as)? Nuh (as)? When I was a kid I used to have a video came called "Bible Stories", where I had to play as Noah (as) and get all the animals, in pairs, into the arc! Or I can choose to be Moses's (as) mother and try and get baby Moses into the basket. Sometimes dropping him in the process. And of COURSE... who can forget Adam (as)? There are MILLIONS of images depicting Adam... a lot of which are insulting. Come on.. where are the picket signs? The boycotts?

Finally, about the "freedom of speech" issue. It's called censorship. That cartoon is potentially dangerous to the writers and to a lot of people and they know it.
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Smok
02-12-2006, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam


I havn't got a problem with this, as I believe that this country should be run under the sharia law and I wouldn't want anyone saying anything against it.
I believe that law and religion should be separated because each country should be home for everyone - muslims, christians, atheists... Law can't contain religious rules because there is not one religion accepted by everyone. There are not only muslims on this world.
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wysiwyg
02-12-2006, 08:16 PM
Yes, and I'll start with the following taken from http://www.beconvinced.com/en/articl...o%20To%20Islam

A Complete Way Of Life !

Islam is a religion, but not in the western meaning of religion. The western connotation of the term "religion" is something between the believer and God. Islam is a religion that organizes all aspects of life on both the individual and national levels.

Islam organizes your relations with God, with yourself, with your children, with your relatives, with your neighbor, with your guest, and with other brethren. Islam clearly establishes your duties and rights in all those relationships.

Islam establishes a clear system of worship, civil rights, laws of marriage and divorce, laws of inheritance, code of behavior, what not to drink, what to wear, and what not to wear, how to worship God, how to govern, the laws of war and peace, when to go to war, when to make peace, the law of economics, and the laws of buying and selling. Islam is a complete code of life.

Islam is not practiced in the mosque only, it is for daily life, a guide to life in all its aspects: socially, economically, and politically.

Islam is complete constitution. Thus Islam keeps the Muslim away from confusion, because Islam is logical and rational. Allah is one. Allah is one Allah has no sons. Allah is not associated with trinity. Allah does not kill to save. No mediation is required between Allah and man. Islam organizes human nature, but does not go against it. There is not a class of clergy in Islam; nor is there celibacy. Islam is complete way of human life.
Author : Dr.Muhammad Al Alkhuli
Source : Islamway
This is where the problem lies, and not with a bunch of violent terrorists.

The cartoon fiasco has been brilliant in illustrating the obvious ignorance of westerners to beliefs held sacred by Muslims. However, Muslims need to understand in return that we have beliefs that we hold sacred. We, in a secular society, may have no religion, but we believe very strongly in institutions of democracy. To us the place to make laws with which to run our lives is in parliament and similar institutions and not through interpretation of 1400 year old texts.

As you say, you are no extremist. If you listen and read moderate responses to Muslim incursions into western society you will find the same things echoing over and over. "Freedom of expression" is instituted for us within our legal system. Muslims do not understand "Freedom of expression" because everything has already been taken care of through the scriptures, so there's no discussion, and discussion and asking of questions is not encouraged. That is the only way that westerners were able to advance science, lead the industrial revolution and make progress. We are not going to turn round and accept some old tribal legal system that we have no cultural connection to and that is the inference that comes from those who promote Islam like yourself. Expect strong resistance to suggestions like:

I havn't got a problem with this, as I believe that this country should be run under the sharia law and I wouldn't want anyone saying anything against it.
I hope I have explained enough.
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Ghazi
02-12-2006, 08:31 PM
Salaam

Expect strong resistance to suggestions like
I expect that but at the end of the day, the whole world will be muslim
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Tasneem
02-12-2006, 08:36 PM
Yes i am insulted but
The way the muslims are acting is very foolish.

Just like a scholar was saying on saturday

We(Muslims)are not acting any better


Then the kufr

We(Muslims)want them to stop

And get rid of the cartoons but we(Muslims)are just arguing and acting like kufr

We are suppose to argue with Hikmah

Instead we go out with flags yelling and screaming

To them we are proving to them that we really are terrorists

We argue,yes,but in a gentle manner

Remember when Abu Hurariah(May Allah be pleased with him)
came to the Prophet Muhammed(SAAWS)And told him
Tht his(Abu Hurariahs)Mother was talking about him(The prophet Muhammed)and he still made dua for Abu Hurariahs mom
And she accepted islam.

We have to be better then the kufr

SaLaMz
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wysiwyg
02-12-2006, 10:34 PM
This is exactly why westerners tend to be anti-Muslim. There is no way that I, or anyone I know will willingly submit to Islam.

I expect that but at the end of the day, the whole world will be muslim
I might add that as a non-Muslim I find the label "Kafr" to be blasphemous. I am not going to launch street protests and burn embassies but I think you should know that I and many other non-Muslims find it offensive.

A true Muslim is able to accept all people's for their different beliefs. I would judge your comments LI Oldtime as being "un-Muslim". Islam is a religion of peace and has existed alongside communities of Christians and Hindus for centuries. Your kind of comment simply alienates Muslims from non-Muslims and contributes to the current conflict. I, as a believer in humanity accept you for your belief in Islam, and I respect Islam as a great religion.
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czgibson
02-12-2006, 11:03 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by sumay28
I saw a movie a while back ago where Alanis Moressette played a God who didn't speak!
That's Dogma, a film by the great Kevin Smith. Brilliant flick!

Peace
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mahdisoldier19
02-12-2006, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by wysiwyg
This is exactly why westerners tend to be anti-Muslim. There is no way that I, or anyone I know will willingly submit to Islam.



I might add that as a non-Muslim I find the label "Kafr" to be blasphemous. I am not going to launch street protests and burn embassies but I think you should know that I and many other non-Muslims find it offensive.

A true Muslim is able to accept all people's for their different beliefs. I would judge your comments LI Oldtime as being "un-Muslim". Islam is a religion of peace and has existed alongside communities of Christians and Hindus for centuries. Your kind of comment simply alienates Muslims from non-Muslims and contributes to the current conflict. I, as a believer in humanity accept you for your belief in Islam, and I respect Islam as a great religion.
Peace and blessings upon you

The friend brothers and sisters said 1 good thing and 1 bad thing heh,

1st) Every non muslim will be named a kafir

2nd) All religions even though they are a kafir should live in harmony with Muslims

If anyone had ever paid attention to muslim history under salahuddin and other muslim empires, jews and christians were allowed to live with Muslims no problem. Until the Lionheart of England thought differently.
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czgibson
02-12-2006, 11:34 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by wysiwyg
I might add that as a non-Muslim I find the label "Kafr" to be blasphemous. I am not going to launch street protests and burn embassies but I think you should know that I and many other non-Muslims find it offensive.
Kaffir is a word that can be used in a nasty way, but essentially it just means 'non-Muslim', so I wouldn't get too worried about it.

Peace
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wysiwyg
02-12-2006, 11:34 PM
Do you, Mahdsoldier19, think that US should come under the control of sharia law?
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Tasneem
02-12-2006, 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Kaffir is a word that can be used in a nasty way, but essentially it just means 'non-Muslim', so I wouldn't get too worried about it.

Peace

Actually Kuffir means a person

Who knows about islam and THEN rejects it...

Thts what a kaffir is

SaLaMz
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wysiwyg
02-12-2006, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Kaffir is a word that can be used in a nasty way, but essentially it just means 'non-Muslim', so I wouldn't get too worried about it.

Peace
I'm not worried about it, however, I am aware of the power of labels. No other religion that I know of uses them to apply to non-believers. Christians used to refer to them as Philistines, but that is no longer used that I know of. Creating a label for non-believers creates an atmosphere of "us and them" and contributes to the current conflict between us and them. In line with 21st century efforts at non-discriminatory non-racist practice I think that Muslims who are keen for westerners not to blaspheme their religion need to start thinking of changing the way they they represent non-Muslims, starting with removal of labels such as kafr and infidel from polite conversation.
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czgibson
02-12-2006, 11:47 PM
Greetings wysiwyg,

That's an excellent point, and I concur. It'd be interesting to hear some thoughts from others on this.

Originally Posted by Tasneem
Actually Kuffir means a person

Who knows about islam and THEN rejects it...
I think you'd be hard pushed to find someone who doesn't know about Islam these days.

Peace
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Tasneem
02-12-2006, 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by wysiwyg
I'm not worried about it, however, I am aware of the power of labels. No other religion that I know of uses them to apply to non-believers. Christians used to refer to them as Philistines, but that is no longer used that I know of. Creating a label for non-believers creates an atmosphere of "us and them" and contributes to the current conflict between us and them. In line with 21st century efforts at non-discriminatory non-racist practice I think that Muslims who are keen for westerners not to blaspheme their religion need to start thinking of changing the way they they represent non-Muslims, starting with removal of labels such as kafr and infidel from polite conversation.
:offended: :rant: :rollseyes :offended:

SaLaMz
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wysiwyg
02-13-2006, 12:13 AM
Tasneem, you're offended!!? Do we have to start thinking that all Muslims are made of Dresden China (ie very fragile)?:?

Should I have not said that? Do I now have to apologise in the name of Allah?

Saleem
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aamirsaab
02-13-2006, 12:17 AM
:sl:
I think you have misunderstood, The word Kafir means disbeliever (of Islam). Sadly, it is common nowadays to be used as an insult e.g. "oi you effin kafir."
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Tasneem
02-13-2006, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by wysiwyg
Tasneem, you're offended!!? Do we have to start thinking that all Muslims are made of Dresden China (ie very fragile)?:?

Should I have not said that? Do I now have to apologise in the name of Allah?

Saleem
[MAD]OFF TOPIC!!!![/MAD]
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wysiwyg
02-13-2006, 12:58 AM
"Kaffir" in the English dictionary is a historical term referring to the Bantu people. In South Africa it is a derogatory term for a black African. The English dictionary is a book, like the Koran is to Muslims, that English people revere.

I'm beginning to wonder, Tasneen, that it is alright for Muslims to be offended by cartoons or words but not for non-Muslims. If so then I think that everyone should know so that then there will be peace.

Saleem
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aamirsaab
02-13-2006, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by wysiwyg
"Kaffir" in the English dictionary is a historical term referring to the Bantu people. In South Africa it is a derogatory term for a black African. The English dictionary is a book, like the Koran is to Muslims, that English people revere.
That is a completely different word to Kafir. Although the spelling is very similar.
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HeiGou
02-13-2006, 10:23 AM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
That is a completely different word to Kafir. Although the spelling is very similar.
Actually it is the same word. Dutch settlers picked it up from Muslims in the region who referred to Black Africans and kaffirs. They use it in a strictly racial sense, but it comes from Arabic.
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sumay28
02-13-2006, 11:18 AM
Islam is a great way of life. If the whole world were Muslim we'd live in a near-perfect world.
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Shereen
02-13-2006, 12:10 PM
So if the English or Dutch or whoever took an arabic word and altered or misinterpreted the meaning in their dictionary, does that mean those who speak arabic should stop using the word??? I think not... to me the word means non beliver and Im sure I'll continue to use it.
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j4763
02-13-2006, 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by sumay28
Islam is a great way of life. If the whole world were Muslim we'd live in a near-perfect world.
I agree, but this also applies to all religions, edit Islam and put any religion and anyone from edited religion would agree with your post.
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aamirsaab
02-13-2006, 01:34 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Actually it is the same word. Dutch settlers picked it up from Muslims in the region who referred to Black Africans and kaffirs. They use it in a strictly racial sense, but it comes from Arabic.
The meaning is different - the word kafir, like i said before, means disbeliever. However, it has been used in the wrong sense for a long time and so is now a derogatory term as people use it for the wrong reasons. Take for example the number two. On the internet and in text messages, the number 2 is used as a substitute for the word "to" and/or "too". This doesn't mean that 2 means too or to :).
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Sis786
02-13-2006, 01:52 PM
Back to Topic, - I think that these Pictures are degrading and an insult to a religion of peace,

Further i fail to believe that the Authors did not know that they would cause offence and were testing the "Boundries of free speech" My reponse is the same as Dr Azim Tamimi "Who are you bull s****ing"
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Ibrar
02-13-2006, 02:10 PM
They printed the cartoons because they are jealous of muslims because Islam is spreading very fast in Europe.
They printed because they knew how much muslims love their Prophet and they will react. and then they will make their Images negative and show it in the Media to make the public go against them. its a well planned scheme against the muslims
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HeiGou
02-13-2006, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Back to Topic, - I think that these Pictures are degrading and an insult to a religion of peace,

Further i fail to believe that the Authors did not know that they would cause offence and were testing the "Boundries of free speech" My reponse is the same as Dr Azim Tamimi "Who are you bull s****ing"
Hang on, you are confusing two issues - did they know they would cause offense? Well obviously. One of the cartoons shows a cartoonist drawing a picture of a Muslim hunched over his table, with the blinds pulled down, the lights low and looking over his shoulder. They, or at least one, clearly saw that what they were doing was dangerous. Was it testing the limits of free speech? Well that is a different issue. And yet clearly it was that as well. There is no point having the right to say whatever everyone agrees with. It is only useful if you have the right to say what you want even if you offend others.

I am sure the Syrian government claims it has free speech. I am also sure that it has to be "responsible" free speech. Which means Syria has no free speech at all.
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wysiwyg
02-13-2006, 08:30 PM
The media (Peace be upon them) are the prophets of western free speech. Mahommed (Peace be upon him) is the prophet of Islam.

This is a clash of prophets. The west blaspheme the Muslim prophet and Islam and the Muslims blaspheme the western prophets and their free speech.

This is better than shooting each other with bullets and bombs don't you think? When we've all done with the fighting we can then get round and have a few drinks and a laugh.
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Shereen
02-15-2006, 01:33 PM
PESHAWAR, Pakistan - Gunfire and rioting erupted Wednesday as tens of thousands of people took to the streets in several Pakistani cities during the country's third consecutive day of violent protests over the Prophet Muhammad cartoons. Three people were killed, including an 8-year-old boy.

More than 70,000 people flooded the streets of the northwestern city of Peshawar, said Saeed Wazir, a senior police officer. The massive crowd went on a rampage, torching businesses and fighting police, who struck back with tear gas and batons. A bus terminal operated by South Korea's Sammi Corp. was torched, police said.

Protesters burned a KFC restaurant, three movie theaters and the offices of the main mobile phone company in the country. A Norwegian mobile phone company's offices were also ransacked. Gunfire was heard near the burning KFC, as police tried to clear people from a main street, witnesses said.

An 8-year-old boy died after being struck in the face by a bullet fired by a protester, police officer Shahid Khan said. A 25-year-old man was killed by an electric cable that was snapped by gunfire, said the man's cousin, Jehangir Khan.

At least 45 people were being treated for injuries in Peshawar's two state-run hospitals, Khan and witnesses said.

This is an excerpt of recent news story. It is because of things like this that I started this thread....violent protests. Rioting, burning buildings, people injured a child killed...what good does this do anyone? Does burning a buisness in Pakistan have any adverse affect on the people who created or printed the cartoons in the first place?? Of course not!! It only breeds more fear and hatred towards Muslims. And perhaps by destroying these neighbourhood buisnesses they have only managed to hurt thier own muslim brother and sisters. How many muslims will be out of work now because their place of employment went up in flames? What will those families do now for money?? Actions like this do nothing to help the cause and everything to hinder it. If we dont act like civilized people we wont be treated like civilized people. How can we expect anyone to respect us if we dont respect ourselves enough to refrain from this kind of behavior.

Of course we are angry, outraged even, and we have the right for this, but behavior like what is described above only makes matters worse for us all! I continue to pray these occurances stop!
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Ghazi
02-15-2006, 02:35 PM
Salaam

The media (Peace be upon them) are the prophets of western free speech
The media are pure evil the amount of lives they've ruined the american media are the worse, they won't dare tell the truth about 9/11 cause they don't want to be seen as anti-american
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Robert.Lane@Ora
02-15-2006, 10:34 PM
reference
"Back to Topic, - I think that these Pictures are degrading and an insult to a religion of peace",

OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:

  • Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslim officials block the exit where school irls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
  • A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
  • Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
  • Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
  • Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.
  • British squaddies getting some back on all 101 fatalities in iraq the media kicks the arse out of it and there is outraged
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-15-2006, 10:38 PM
A few stupid cartoons and everyone kicks off, I know lets kill a few people as well, very peaceful. I would have never even know about the cartoons if it wasnt for your marches and protests all youve done is draw attention to something that you yourselves dont wish to be published. You might aswell have been paid for advertising the cartoons
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-15-2006, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
reference
"Back to Topic, - I think that these Pictures are degrading and an insult to a religion of peace",

OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:

  • Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslim officials block the exit where school irls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
  • A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
  • Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
  • Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
  • Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.
  • British squaddies getting some back on all 101 fatalities in iraq the media kicks the arse out of it and there is outraged
Assalam alikam

Point Number 1) No evidence Muslims Did 9/11 released to the public i challenge you to bring any evidence, and watch loose change 9/11

2) Where is this?

3) Its their actions not all or muslims or Islam, When serial killers kill in america i dont see them Going Greek orthodox Ted Bundy murdered this girl. If a muslim man did something, My point you would hear a Muslim Islamic Ahmed who goes to this masjit so and so did this.

4) Dont even go ANYWHERE ON WHO MURDERS WHO IN IRAQ, So much evidence stacked against you, you would just keep your mouth quiet on this subject

5) Again The persons fault not All the muslims or the religion. When the US invaded iraq, whats that justification? what the russians doing to chechnians wheres that justification?

6) The rest of them im not going to discuss because your not giving specific details.

As for the British, What justification was there for Iraq? Oh thats right weapons of mass destruction yet nothing found and nothing shown to the public?

Hmmmm i wonder... Whats your situation and problem? You have something Against Muslims? Do you? Im asking not saying you do or dont im asking you?
Reply

wysiwyg
02-15-2006, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

The media are pure evil the amount of lives they've ruined the american media are the worse, they won't dare tell the truth about 9/11 cause they don't want to be seen as anti-american
The only reason you know about the cartoons or the riots is because of the media (PBUT). It is the cornerstone of free speech and westerners revere it very much. In fact, this forum is yet another part of that media (PBUT), evil that it might be, it is still very useful -hey, you have blasphemed what I hold near and dear!! How dare you!! I am outraged!! (Grrr.. I can deal with this...I'll.. I'll just turn the other cheek)

Despite what you might think, westerners actually do have strong beliefs and they are willing to stand up for them, which is why newspapers have continued to print the cartoons. They don't do it to offend, but merely to point out to Muslims that they are wrong if they think we are faithless.
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-15-2006, 11:27 PM
I have nothing against Muslims just hypocrites. As for your mention of why Britain invaded Iraq, I think its one of the best things ever to happen to iraq, or was it mutch better under Sadam's rule. Is it for oil? who knows! as for weapons of mass destruction, Sadam had already proved he had them and was prepared to use them by gasing his own people or was that just propaganda. Ive been out to Iraq and whitnessed first hand experience what is going on out there. Dont think Im anti muslim just a realist, it just seems that every problem in the world seems to be because of this peaceful religion. The banners down in London said it all, Kill those who talk bad about mohammed. I dont know the bloke or really care. Evil seems to be the root of all evil, people pick an choose what they want to keep even though their religion blantantly says otherwise. Whether it be cristians, jew, moslims etc.. you are all hypocrites. I believe in god but I dont need a religion or prophet to tell me so. Has anyone ever sat down layed all the religions out and thought them all through or have they just gone along with the easy option of believing what they were brought up to believe. I peronally believe that there is a god and that all the prophets ad religions point to the same god. Jesus, Moses, Mohamed none of them are god, they all belived in god, How are these gods different from one another? Please let me know! Jesus was supposedly jewish and the muslims came from abraham the same as in the bible(please correct me if Im wrong), does this mean that we're all related.
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-16-2006, 12:20 AM
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
I have nothing against Muslims just hypocrites. As for your mention of why Britain invaded Iraq, I think its one of the best things ever to happen to iraq, or was it mutch better under Sadam's rule. Is it for oil? who knows! as for weapons of mass destruction, Sadam had already proved he had them and was prepared to use them by gasing his own people or was that just propaganda. Ive been out to Iraq and whitnessed first hand experience what is going on out there. Dont think Im anti muslim just a realist, it just seems that every problem in the world seems to be because of this peaceful religion. The banners down in London said it all, Kill those who talk bad about mohammed. I dont know the bloke or really care. Evil seems to be the root of all evil, people pick an choose what they want to keep even though their religion blantantly says otherwise. Whether it be cristians, jew, moslims etc.. you are all hypocrites. I believe in god but I dont need a religion or prophet to tell me so. Has anyone ever sat down layed all the religions out and thought them all through or have they just gone along with the easy option of believing what they were brought up to believe. I peronally believe that there is a god and that all the prophets ad religions point to the same god. Jesus, Moses, Mohamed none of them are god, they all belived in god, How are these gods different from one another? Please let me know! Jesus was supposedly jewish and the muslims came from abraham the same as in the bible(please correct me if Im wrong), does this mean that we're all related.


Jewish Folks - Believe in God, Denied the Messiah ( jesus Christ Pbuh)

Christian Folks - Believe in Trinity Father Son Holy Spirit ( When in fact jesus never says worship me)

Muslim Folks - Believe in All the Prophets and Messangers , but Submit your Will To God because unto him we all shall return on the day of Resurrection. God has fathered no son nor has he have any attachments.

Lets take into defination Hyprocrit - You say something others when in fact you do it yourself, Pretend, To play apart.

Where do you see Muslims pretending?


As for your own information on propoganda, hasnt all wars majority of them under Propoganda? I sure as hell know Afghanistan was. The United States Govt never gave any evidence to the taliban that Osama bin laden did 9/11. Osama bin laden even denied the attacks. And dont bring up the tape that he said he did it watch loose change 9.11. That tape is so fake its unimaginable.

HAD the US gave evidence to the taliban, afghanistan would have been different. I was firsthand in Afghanistan you want any stories i will clarify them the best i can.
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 12:42 AM
What part am I tring to play? Maybe we are all being fed a pack of lies by the people who govern our countries. however all wars are due to religion
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-16-2006, 12:46 AM
Salam alaikam

Peace and blessings upon you,

Noooooooooooooooo Well some cases Religion MAJORITY OF THE CASES GREED AND THE $$$.

I know what your thinking over money slaughtering of thousands of people? Some people dont care these days.

If you go to pakistan tell a guy i give you 10k dollars kill this person, Some people would do it in a instant.
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 12:46 AM
As for afghanistan, do you agree with growing poppies and supplying the world with heroine not to mention the farmers who are in debt with the drug lords and have to pay them with their own children, right... Afghanistan would have been different. I guess all of that was made up aswell.
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-16-2006, 12:52 AM
Salam Alaikam

Well im from afghanistan, Uh that situation isnt only in afghanistan. In Pakistan a man owed another man i believe 200 dollars. The Pathan ( Afghan) Offered him his daughter. So that doesnt happen in afghanistan. And i have no recollection of that going on in afghanistan. MAYBE The shiites northern alliance members yes.

But you must understand there is allways righteous and wrong people in society these days. so you cant really trust anyone.

I for instance had to be careful if i had entered afghanistan i myself would be kidnapped by my own family held for randsom. See situation out there is rough.

Growing poppies and Opium not heroine my friend. If you studied your history the CIA was gaining profit from that drug business the CIA from the taliban Yes i have knowledge and experience in that and have spoken with many FBI officers.

Im part of the new govt to stabilize afghanistan, You dont understand. If you knew who was with bin laden before 9/11 You would not believe anything i tell you.

I agree that happens, But you dont understand Afghan Ghairut. A Afghan allways is arrogant but a strong warrior. Never has afghanistan lost a war and neither will it ever. Inshallah.
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 12:53 AM
Noooooooooooooooo Well some cases Religion MAJORITY OF THE CASES GREED AND THE $$$
I think youll find in most cases if not all its because of religion
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 01:07 AM
Sorry supplying the workd with opium, still a drug that kills thousands, but I guess thats ok, I suppose they as a peaceful nation of Muslim find this morall ok, something allah would approve of. (not meaning to be disrespectfull of your god)
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 01:13 AM
The media are pure evil the amount of lives they've ruined the american media are the worse, they won't dare tell the truth about 9/11 cause they don't want to be seen as anti-american
So what is the truth???
Reply

Tasneem
02-16-2006, 01:21 AM
I belive that jews
Did 9/11 and they did it because
They knew they(As in stupid-bush and others)would blame
The muslims.

Islam is peace and anyone who studied it would know

SaLaMz
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 01:30 AM
Islam is peace, dont seem very peaceful at the minute, id say quite the opposite.
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-16-2006, 01:33 AM
Salam Alaikam

My God is the same God As christians and jews of Old.

Many misconceptions but! rob go to video.google.com

then type in loose change 9/11 then look for the second edition
Reply

Shereen
02-16-2006, 05:32 AM
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
reference
"Back to Topic, - I think that these Pictures are degrading and an insult to a religion of peace",

OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:

  • Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslim officials block the exit where school irls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
  • A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
  • Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
  • Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
  • Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
  • Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.
  • British squaddies getting some back on all 101 fatalities in iraq the media kicks the arse out of it and there is outraged
Oh please, lets not get into this. Listing crimes across the world as if they are only committed by muslims?? Perhaps youd do well to remember that the prisons in the US are filled, and not just filled but overcrowded with murderers, rapists, child moslesters, theives, and violent offenders of every sort. And the fact is the vast marjority of those ppl are NOT muslim now are they? Many of them know no religion but most proclaim to be Christian. I however will not sit here and bash all Christians because of the bad apples in the bunch. I think its ironic though that in the US the government and media want to brain wash americans to fear the Muslim as the terrorist but then turn a blind eye to the thousands of home grown terrorists walking our streets everday. Crime in this country is constantly on the rise, violent offenders are out there robbing, beating, killing, raping and stealing...are all these criminals Muslim? Ive worked in law enforcement for 10 years and I assure you violent offenders and petty criminals come from every race, color, religion and social class in the world. But hey ...lets not clean our own house...lets not worry about the degeneration of our society, lets not worry about the morals we're teaching or more accurately not teaching our children...lets go instead to other countries and see if we can spread our crime ridden lifestyle to them. And while were at it we'll continually point the finger of blame at the Muslims as the cause for all the violence in the world. That makes perfect sense! :rollseyes
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 11:28 AM
Im not American and Im not scared of Muslims. If this is such a peaceful religion, how come nearly every trouble spot in the world is because of religion, can you explain that. At the end of the day you are all hypocrites, you pick and choose what you want to believe, If life is so great being a muslim why not stay in your own countries instead of coming to britain. If western life is such an evil one why not stay in a place full of Muslims and not have to worry about stupid cartoons, islamaphobia etc... As said earlier; "My God is the same God As christians and jews of Old". You all worship the same god, there is only one god, but yet you all argue and fight over prophets. If moses, jesus, and mohamed were here today to see what theyve created they feel sick of them selves and sent you all to hell. Youre all as bad as each other, I guess you all deserve the suffering you afflict on each other. RELIGION the root of all EVIL!!!
Reply

Ghazi
02-16-2006, 11:30 AM
Salaam

you pick and choose what you want to believe
No we don't But I can say thats true about alot of people without faith.
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 11:35 AM
like I said before, faith in what?? Moses, jesus, Mohamed. I dont need them to tell me there is a God, I believe there is a God and only one God which we all believe in. Its only the difference of religion that divides us all.
Reply

aamirsaab
02-16-2006, 11:37 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
Its only the difference of religion that divides us all.
And our IQ ;)
Reply

Ghazi
02-16-2006, 11:39 AM
Salaam

like I said before, faith in what?? Moses, jesus, Mohamed. I dont need them to tell me there is a God, I believe there is a God
How can you believe without having faith, you say you don't need the prophets then what do you follow and what do you know about your god.
Reply

Umar001
02-16-2006, 11:52 AM
I dont think the messengers of Almighty God came to just say, there is a God.

La Illaha Ill Allah.

There is no god but Almighty God.

see theres the first point to be gained :p

Peace be with you
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 11:54 AM
I never said I didnt have faith, u did. I believe there is a God and I get on with what I have to do. I dont go out protesting, murdering. When I die and Im in front of who ever, all I will say is, do you really think I know which religion is the right path, they all lead to death and destruction. What if I did pick one which I thought were right and it turned out to be the wrong one. You only believe in what you do because you were brought up to believe in what you do. Like 99% of people who are brought up the way they are. Most christians today are christians because they were brought up that way, most of them dont really care or know much about their own religion. Jews pick an choose, reform jews, this jews... that jews... and musilms are fanatical and again pick an choose what they want to keep, Which religion should I choose, NONE. Theyre all as bad as each other. There will never be peace between any of you and you will kill each other. Peaceful Religion, BullS**T
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 11:57 AM
No thats right he came hear to tell you to kill each other and rid the world of any other religion, what chapter was that in again
Reply

Ghazi
02-16-2006, 11:58 AM
Salaam

I believe there is a God
Ok I guess this is getting a bit heated so lets calm down. Care to explain to me who is your god
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 12:09 PM
Its not heated, I just love a good old debate. :) My God is the same as yours the jews and the christians. You all believe in the same God but give him different names and have different ways of serving him. As for the name of God, who knows. He knows what he's doing and this is all meant to happen and one day we'll all feel like a bunch of --- when He shows us the truth. But till then I guess we'll just have to carry on killing each other
Reply

Ghazi
02-16-2006, 12:13 PM
Salaam

the truth
And this is
Reply

Duhaa
02-16-2006, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
Its not heated, I just love a good old debate. :) My God is the same as yours the jews and the christians. You all believe in the same God but give him different names and have different ways of serving him. As for the name of God, who knows. He knows what he's doing and this is all meant to happen and one day we'll all feel like a bunch of d**kheads when He shows us the truth. But till then I guess we'll just have to carry on killing each other

What is it with you and killing?
You mention it in nearly all your posts! :rollseyes
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 12:27 PM
this is what? a good old debate. Well your saying what u think and Im saying what I think. So that does really make it a debate. "a good old" is just a figure of speach
Reply

Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 12:30 PM
just to mentioning something you can relate to as thats what your religion does best, as does all religion
Reply

HeiGou
02-16-2006, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by Shereen
Oh please, lets not get into this. Listing crimes across the world as if they are only committed by muslims?? Perhaps youd do well to remember that the prisons in the US are filled, and not just filled but overcrowded with murderers, rapists, child moslesters, theives, and violent offenders of every sort. And the fact is the vast marjority of those ppl are NOT muslim now are they? Many of them know no religion but most proclaim to be Christian. I however will not sit here and bash all Christians because of the bad apples in the bunch. I think its ironic though that in the US the government and media want to brain wash americans to fear the Muslim as the terrorist but then turn a blind eye to the thousands of home grown terrorists walking our streets everday. Crime in this country is constantly on the rise, violent offenders are out there robbing, beating, killing, raping and stealing...are all these criminals Muslim? Ive worked in law enforcement for 10 years and I assure you violent offenders and petty criminals come from every race, color, religion and social class in the world. But hey ...lets not clean our own house...lets not worry about the degeneration of our society, lets not worry about the morals we're teaching or more accurately not teaching our children...lets go instead to other countries and see if we can spread our crime ridden lifestyle to them. And while were at it we'll continually point the finger of blame at the Muslims as the cause for all the violence in the world. That makes perfect sense! :rollseyes
The problem here is you are confusing crime with terrorism. Crime is awful, but it is random. It can strike each and everyone of us. It is random. It is not organised. Terror, on the other hand, is organised and it is directed to certain political goals. There is no resemblance between the two at all. Crime will not change government policy much or society to any real degree. Terror, on the other hand, aims to transform the world. So the prisons are full of criminals. From all races and religions. But modern terrorism is highly associated with one or two ideologies.

And while it is not true that Muslims are a cause for all the violence in the world some types of violence are more often done by Muslims than by others. All the suicide bombings in Europe have been committed by Muslims. It so happens that domestic violence is more common in Muslim countries and among Muslim communities than most others. This is not to blame all Muslims who are, of course, innocent. But while not all Muslims are terrorists, it is increasingly the case that all terrorists are, or think they are, Muslims.
Reply

Sis786
02-16-2006, 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
The problem here is you are confusing crime with terrorism. Crime is awful, but it is random. It can strike each and everyone of us. It is random. It is not organised. Terror, on the other hand, is organised and it is directed to certain political goals. There is no resemblance between the two at all. Crime will not change government policy much or society to any real degree. Terror, on the other hand, aims to transform the world. So the prisons are full of criminals. From all races and religions. But modern terrorism is highly associated with one or two ideologies.

And while it is not true that Muslims are a cause for all the violence in the world some types of violence are more often done by Muslims than by others. All the suicide bombings in Europe have been committed by Muslims. It so happens that domestic violence is more common in Muslim countries and among Muslim communities than most others. This is not to blame all Muslims who are, of course, innocent. But while not all Muslims are terrorists, it is increasingly the case that all terrorists are, or think they are, Muslims.
Answer me this question "How do you know that those suicide bombers are Muslim" Tell me!

I mean YES the media and the Goverment say this, But lets not forget the Media and the Goverment were also DEFINATE that Iraq had Nuclear Weapons.

I can go innocently on a train someone else could BLOW up the train, I DIE and then you see my pic all over the papers saying i blew myself UP! Im not there to say "No" My Parents and family are gonna be scared to death to come on TV and even if they do WHO is going to believe them.

The 2 weeks down the line YOU will hear that i went to a mosque and learned this. Even though i went to mosque to pray.

4 weeks later a video will be released SHOWING ME SAYING im gonna kill LOADS of people. And this video has come from the Goverment and CIA and MI5 who have the ability to make such vidoes.

Tell me ARE YOU GONNA THINK IM INNOCENT!
Reply

HeiGou
02-16-2006, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Answer me this question "How do you know that those suicide bombers are Muslim" Tell me!
Well around here I would use "Muslim" in a more technical sense than I would in normal conversation and say, it is not for me to judge their religion. But I did notice from their suicide videos they seemed to think they were Muslims. They certainly came from the Muslim community.

I mean YES the media and the Goverment say this, But lets not forget the Media and the Goverment were also DEFINATE that Iraq had Nuclear Weapons.
That is not entirely true. Many in the media doubted it. And so did some in the government.

Look, no doubt you would rather think this was all some bizarre plot against Islam, but face it, the boysa who did it did it. And they were not Jews.

I can go innocently on a train someone else could BLOW up the train, I DIE and then you see my pic all over the papers saying i blew myself UP! Im not there to say "No" My Parents and family are gonna be scared to death to come on TV and even if they do WHO is going to believe them.
There is a highly recognizable set of injuries caused by having a bomb on you as opposed to next to you. You could do this and it could happen. If there was some vast conspiracy that had anything to gain from blaming Muslims for these actions.

The 2 weeks down the line YOU will hear that i went to a mosque and learned this. Even though i went to mosque to pray.

4 weeks later a video will be released SHOWING ME SAYING im gonna kill LOADS of people. And this video has come from the Goverment and CIA and MI5 who have the ability to make such vidoes.
Uh huh.

Tell me ARE YOU GONNA THINK IM INNOCENT!
No. You display many of the features I associate with radical Islam. If something came along that pushed you over the edge into extreme radical action it would surprise me, but it would not be unthinkable.
Reply

Sis786
02-16-2006, 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well around here I would use "Muslim" in a more technical sense than I would in normal conversation and say, it is not for me to judge their religion. But I did notice from their suicide videos they seemed to think they were Muslims. They certainly came from the Muslim community.
HOW DO YOU KNOW because the Media showed you a passport. I know 50 people who are walkigna round with FAKE passports. ITs not rocket science to have a FAKE passport. SO how DO HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
That is not entirely true. Many in the media doubted it. And so did some in the government.

Look, no doubt you would rather think this was all some bizarre plot against Islam, but face it, the boysa who did it did it. And they were not Jews.
Who said they were JEWS i didnt. Many seem to think Muslims have this HATE for Jews. YES I HATE ARIEL SHARON but that dont mean i HATE all Jews. Jews are people of the Book and they should be respected BUT to get RESPECT you need to GIVE respect. and ALSO many confuse Zionist and Jews!!



Originally Posted by HeiGou
There is a highly recognizable set of injuries caused by having a bomb on you as opposed to next to you.
Have you seen the Post-mortems on these SUICIDE BOMBERS. What makes you think that if i did die in a train innocently that the Goverment, CIA or whatever wouldnt change and alter facts to show that i was GUILTY. think about it YOU havnt seen the bodies of those who have been accused of being SUICIDE BOMBERS!


No. You display many of the features I associate with radical Islam. If something came along that pushed you over the edge into extreme radical action it would surprise me, but it would not be unthinkable.[/QUOTE]

Radical Islam is a PHASE made up by the Media!!! I as a Muslim KNOW islam and NO PART IS RADICAL, If parts are twsited that means that people have done this. Quran is the word of God and hasnt been changed FIND ME ONE SENTENCE IN THIS BOOK WHICH IS EVIL, RADICAL OR HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH TERROISM. ONE SENTENCE AND I WOULD EAT MY SCARF!!!!!!
Reply

justahumane
02-16-2006, 02:43 PM
Answer me this question "How do you know that those suicide bombers are Muslim" Tell me!
Well Sis I will say that if u are muslim than I m afraid that u are doing a sin of disowning the sacrifice of some great soul who blew himself up just coz he believed that it is the way to make his ALLAH happy.

I think tht in muslim community U can find ppls who are willing to give away their lives for the cause of his or her religion, many times more than any other religion. ie christian, jews, hindus, or buddhism. Reason is obvious.

I mean YES the media and the Goverment say this, But lets not forget the Media and the Goverment were also DEFINATE that Iraq had Nuclear Weapons.

I can go innocently on a train someone else could BLOW up the train, I DIE and then you see my pic all over the papers saying i blew myself UP! Im not there to say "No" My Parents and family are gonna be scared to death to come on TV and even if they do WHO is going to believe them.

The 2 weeks down the line YOU will hear that i went to a mosque and learned this. Even though i went to mosque to pray.

4 weeks later a video will be released SHOWING ME SAYING im gonna kill LOADS of people. And this video has come from the Goverment and CIA and MI5 who have the ability to make such vidoes.

Tell me ARE YOU GONNA THINK IM INNOCENT!
Sister its a nicely cooked-up story, but is this mere story or u think that there is any reality behind it? do u feel that this is what happens with majority of suicide bombings? If U do than plz lets bring out the truth out of it and I will be happy to learn that those suicide bombings are not done by muslims coz muslims cant do any such things.

Thanks.
Reply

Shereen
02-16-2006, 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
The problem here is you are confusing crime with terrorism. Crime is awful, but it is random. It can strike each and everyone of us. It is random. It is not organised. Terror, on the other hand, is organised and it is directed to certain political goals. There is no resemblance between the two at all. Crime will not change government policy much or society to any real degree. Terror, on the other hand, aims to transform the world. So the prisons are full of criminals. From all races and religions. But modern terrorism is highly associated with one or two ideologies.

And while it is not true that Muslims are a cause for all the violence in the world some types of violence are more often done by Muslims than by others. All the suicide bombings in Europe have been committed by Muslims. It so happens that domestic violence is more common in Muslim countries and among Muslim communities than most others. This is not to blame all Muslims who are, of course, innocent. But while not all Muslims are terrorists, it is increasingly the case that all terrorists are, or think they are, Muslims.
Apparently you havnt noticed the domestic violence problem in the US, we have safe houses full of women with waiting lists for years, we cant build them fast enough to keep up with the demand. Women and children are beaten everyday in the US by non muslim husbands and boyfriends and again I work in law enforcemnt so I know this first hand. Statistically speaking its more likely for a woman in this country to be killed by a lover than by a stranger and it happens every day. In fact one of my best friends from highschool was murdered by her boyfriend, shot in the head in front of thier two children, and guess what .....he was Christian and his father the pastor of a local church, so again lets not point the finger at just the Muslims.

And when criminals in this country stand on the corners of our communities dealing drugs, harassing women, scaring children or worse trying to lure children to thier lifestyle... these criminals cause people to be afraid. Afraid for thier lives, families, well being and property. They use thier bad boy tactics to instill fear in the community they live and they use retaliation on those who report thier activities .... in my book that makes them terrorists!
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HeiGou
02-16-2006, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Shereen
Apparently you havnt noticed the domestic violence problem in the US, we have safe houses full of women with waiting lists for years, we cant build them fast enough to keep up with the demand. Women and children are beaten everyday in the US by non muslim husbands and boyfriends and again I work in law enforcemnt so I know this first hand. Statistically speaking its more likely for a woman in this country to be killed by a lover than by a stranger and it happens every day. In fact one of my best friends from highschool was murdered by her boyfriend, shot in the head in front of thier two children, and guess what .....he was Christian and his father the pastor of a local church, so again lets not point the finger at just the Muslims.
I have noticed it. You haven't noticed that I did not say America had no problem, it is just that most Muslim countries have far worse problems. This is a strawman argument.

Sure. Women suffer all the time. Some of them are murdered. So what? You will notice I was not pointing the finger at anyone.

And when criminals in this country stand on the corners of our communities dealing drugs, harassing women, scaring children or worse trying to lure children to thier lifestyle... these criminals cause people to be afraid. Afraid for thier lives, families, well being and property. They use thier bad boy tactics to instill fear in the community they live and they use retaliation on those who report thier activities .... in my book that makes them terrorists!
Except their tactics are tactics. They are not trying to overthrow the state or change the balance of power. They are a police problem, not a military one.

I take it you agreed with everything else I said?
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HeiGou
02-16-2006, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
HOW DO YOU KNOW because the Media showed you a passport. I know 50 people who are walkigna round with FAKE passports. ITs not rocket science to have a FAKE passport. SO how DO HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES!
Funny I know none. A friend said you could buy fake passports from an Arab guy at the Finsbury Mosque but I never did. I wonder if that says something about the people we know or the communities we come from?

Which is more likely - the guy with a motive and from a community with a track record of this sort of thing did it and confessed to it or it was some vast unsuspected and, as far as I can see, completely pointless conspiracy to frame innocent Muslims requiring the involvement of thousands of people and them all keeping silent.

Who said they were JEWS i didnt. Many seem to think Muslims have this HATE for Jews. YES I HATE ARIEL SHARON but that dont mean i HATE all Jews. Jews are people of the Book and they should be respected BUT to get RESPECT you need to GIVE respect. and ALSO many confuse Zionist and Jews!!
Then may I ask who you think is framing all these Muslims for all those suicide bombings?

Have you seen the Post-mortems on these SUICIDE BOMBERS. What makes you think that if i did die in a train innocently that the Goverment, CIA or whatever wouldnt change and alter facts to show that i was GUILTY. think about it YOU havnt seen the bodies of those who have been accused of being SUICIDE BOMBERS!
Why would they bother? There is a certain type of mindset that likes paranoid conspiracy theories - don't you think you would be much happier dealing with the world as most of the rest of us see it?

Radical Islam is a PHASE made up by the Media!!! I as a Muslim KNOW islam and NO PART IS RADICAL, If parts are twsited that means that people have done this. Quran is the word of God and hasnt been changed FIND ME ONE SENTENCE IN THIS BOOK WHICH IS EVIL, RADICAL OR HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH TERROISM. ONE SENTENCE AND I WOULD EAT MY SCARF!!!!!!
A phrase made up by the media? So they made up suicide bombings in Britain, Iraq and Israel? They made up people who praised them for their actions? Parts are twisted - which is why I says radical Islam and not just Islam. But the parts twisted are Islamic parts. They are not writing new Qurans. They are not using the Bible. I would not suggest that any part of the Quran is evil or radical or has anything to do with terrorism. That is not the problem - what you and what I think the Quran says is irrelevant. What matters is what a small number of young men who blow themselves up think it says.

Of course it does say things like this which I find, well, not evil or radical, but hard to reconcile with my chosen life style
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knuckles
02-16-2006, 04:27 PM
Such anger. Calm down sister it's gonna be alright. There is no conspiracy. There is no secret Mosad force out to take over the world. There are no plots for "Greater Israel". The US and the British are not controlled by the Jews. Nor is our media outlets. Actually our media tends to side with muslims more than not. Most of the media here actually have a distain for the military. I would show cartoons showing this but I don't know if that is allowed. It's pretty offensive. By the way it's hard to do autopsys on a body that's blown up. They normally identify the person by dental records.
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HeiGou
02-16-2006, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by knuckles
By the way it's hard to do autopsys on a body that's blown up. They normally identify the person by dental records.
There was a recent one in Indonesia where they took the guy's head - it had been blown off - and showed it around. It was recognisable.

Bombs are funny things I guess.
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knuckles
02-16-2006, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
There was a recent one in Indonesia where they took the guy's head - it had been blown off - and showed it around. It was recognisable.

Bombs are funny things I guess.
Yeah I can see how that can happen. It depends on the placement, amount, and type of explosive material that is used but I can see it happening.
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Sis786
02-16-2006, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Funny I know none. A friend said you could buy fake passports from an Arab guy at the Finsbury Mosque but I never did. I wonder if that says something about the people we know or the communities we come from?
Which is more likely - the guy with a motive and from a community with a track record of this sort of thing did it and confessed to it or it was some vast unsuspected and, as far as I can see, completely pointless conspiracy to frame innocent Muslims requiring the involvement of thousands of people and them all keeping silent

Hmmm well i suppose you think that Osama Bin Laden was behind 9/11 right?


Originally Posted by HeiGou
Then may I ask who you think is framing all these Muslims for all those suicide bombings??
I asked you a simple question What made you think these people that Blew themselves up were Muslims. I didnt say anythign about framing i just made you look at this on a different angle. To be honest i dont think 9/11 happened the way Bush and Blair are claming it happened and since then i have kept a open mind. I do believe that YES there are some radicals in Islam IM NOT BLIND TO THIS THOUGHT! But i fail to beileve EVERYTHING i read in the Mirror, or Observer or what ever source of British and Amercian Meida.

Im not sure whether you heard about a Document that was elaked to the press about the war on Iraq. Apparantly Bush and Blair had a conversation proir to the war and Bush even suggested flying a spy plane in Iraq with an Amercian flag painted on it to provoke SADDAM into war. You see things like this things that the Goverment DONT comment on OR IGNORE are the things I DONT FORGET!!!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Why would they bother? There is a certain type of mindset that likes paranoid conspiracy theories - don't you think you would be much happier dealing with the world as most of the rest of us see it?
Yes its a lovely notion and a much easier one to follow that what you see is what you get. But im a Muslim and IM sick of seeing my Religion and My Brothers and Sisters suffer from this. Why should i look at a Bent World Straight?


Originally Posted by HeiGou
A phrase made up by the media? So they made up suicide bombings in Britain, Iraq and Israel?
Who said made up Like i said i just showed you a different side!!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
They made up people who praised them for their actions?
Ive seen soo many non-muslims praise 9/11 saying its true and ITS SICK!! Who ever praises these actions are just PURE SICK!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Parts are twisted - which is why I says radical Islam and not just Islam. But the parts twisted are Islamic parts. They are not writing new Qurans. They are not using the Bible. I would not suggest that any part of the Quran is evil or radical or has anything to do with terrorism. That is not the problem - what you and what I think the Quran says is irrelevant. What matters is what a small number of young men who blow themselves up think it says
So you saying that its NOT islam NOR Muslims as Muslims follow the religion Islam!!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Of course it does say things like this which I find, well, not evil or radical, but hard to reconcile with my chosen life style
Your lifestyle is up to you. I believe in Islam from the bottom of my heart and i know what Islam says its hard seeing such a beautiful religion be tarnished time and time again.
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Sis786
02-16-2006, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by knuckles
Such anger. Calm down sister it's gonna be alright. There is no conspiracy. .
Lol Knuckles Im showing you a different way of looking at things. Come on dont tell me you iant see that Faraheight 9/11 and other documentaries about 9/11

Originally Posted by knuckles
There is no secret Mosad force out to take over the world. There are no plots for "Greater Israel". The US and the British are not controlled by the Jews. .
Hmm not sure about America!

Originally Posted by knuckles
Nor is our media outlets. Actually our media tends to side with muslims more than not. .
Do they what paper you read???:?

Originally Posted by knuckles
By the way it's hard to do autopsys on a body that's blown up. They normally identify the person by dental records.
:offended: Exaclty so how do you know that a Sucide Bomber is a "Muslim" How????
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knuckles
02-16-2006, 05:24 PM
:)
Lol Knuckles Im showing you a different way of looking at things. Come on dont tell me you iant see that Faraheight 9/11 and other documentaries about 9/11
:giggling: Wow. Have you ever gone to Michael Moore's website? He even admits that it's not a documentary. He admits that he left out stuff and altered footage to show the administartion in a worst light. If Faranehiet 911 is your point of reference then sista you need to find different outlets

Hmm not sure about America!
Oh I'm pretty sure. If they do they are doing a pretty bad job at it. I mean would they actually let a KKK member (Robert Byrd) serve in the Senate if the did?

Do they what paper you read???
Wallstreet Journel, The Nation, USA Today, Newsweek, Chicago Tribune, The Guardian, NY Times, Washington Post, Al-Jazeera.net, Foxnews.net, and so on. Sweetheart I read everything I can get my hands on weither I agree with it or not. How can I disagree with something if I don't know what it's about?

Exaclty so how do you know that a Sucide Bomber is a "Muslim" How????
Maybe because they normally leave a videotape for their family explaining what they have done, why they did it, and showing them going through the cleansing ritual. I've seen them on al-jazeera so I know you have too.
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HeiGou
02-16-2006, 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Hmmm well i suppose you think that Osama Bin Laden was behind 9/11 right?
Well taped boasts do have an influence on me.

Who do you think did it?

I asked you a simple question What made you think these people that Blew themselves up were Muslims. I didnt say anythign about framing i just made you look at this on a different angle. To be honest i dont think 9/11 happened the way Bush and Blair are claming it happened and since then i have kept a open mind. I do believe that YES there are some radicals in Islam IM NOT BLIND TO THIS THOUGHT! But i fail to beileve EVERYTHING i read in the Mirror, or Observer or what ever source of British and Amercian Meida.
What different angle? The "Stalin wasn't a real Communist" angle or the "It was all an international Zionist-Freemason-LizardsFromOuterSpace conspiracy" angle?

It sounds to me like you made your mind up very early about 9-11 and have not shifted from that point since.

No one in their right mind believes everything they read in the Mirror or the Observer even. But it is better than what you download on the internet.

Why do you think there are some radicals in Islam?

Im not sure whether you heard about a Document that was elaked to the press about the war on Iraq. Apparantly Bush and Blair had a conversation proir to the war and Bush even suggested flying a spy plane in Iraq with an Amercian flag painted on it to provoke SADDAM into war. You see things like this things that the Goverment DONT comment on OR IGNORE are the things I DONT FORGET!!!
Yes but how relevant is it? They wanted to go to war with Saddam. They found a reason. Is that so bad? Let me introduce you to the concept of al-hiyal al-fiqhiyyah - the Islamic way to make the forbidden permissable.

Who said made up Like i said i just showed you a different side!!
A different side of what?

Ive seen soo many non-muslims praise 9/11 saying its true and ITS SICK!! Who ever praises these actions are just PURE SICK!
I am finding it hard to work out where yo draw the line. The world is sick and wrong. Blair is a liar, but 9-11 is wrong too. I'll keep trying to figure it out though.

So you saying that its NOT islam NOR Muslims as Muslims follow the religion Islam!!
Well no. I say it is not your version of Islam. But I am not a Muslim and would not judge anyone's views on Islam anyway. So I will say that they thought it was Islam. They did it for their religion.

Your lifestyle is up to you. I believe in Islam from the bottom of my heart and i know what Islam says its hard seeing such a beautiful religion be tarnished time and time again.
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Sis786
02-16-2006, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by knuckles
:) :giggling: Wow. Have you ever gone to Michael Moore's website? He even admits that it's not a documentary. He admits that he left out stuff and altered footage to show the administartion in a worst light. If Faranehiet 911 is your point of reference then sista you need to find different outlets.
Hmm wonder why this movie was bann in America, and this was just an example there are MANY MORE!!

Originally Posted by knuckles
Al-Jazeera.net.
lol, ever thought WHY the Amercians wanted to bomb these stations!!


Originally Posted by knuckles
Maybe because they normally leave a videotape for their family explaining what they have done, why they did it, and showing them going through the cleansing ritual. I've seen them on al-jazeera so I know you have too.
Ever make you wonder how come these people always leave a tape and Why is it this tapes "falls" into the hands of the CIA after the bombing and Why these people make all the tapes see similer and why WE ONLY GET TO WATCH A SNAP SHOP huh Why Why Why!!!
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SuperJatt
02-16-2006, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Smok
Salaam

1. Free speech is most important thing.
2. I'm against any law which will restrict freedom of speech.
3. These cartoons were stupid and had no sense. These pictures did nothing good but only troubles.
Conclusion.
These cartoons shouldn't be printed but that restriction shouldn't be make by law. It should be an "internal" restriction. I will never print them but I will never make law which restrict freedom of speech.

Maa salama

There is a law which restricts freedom of speech. See European Convention on Human Rights article 10.
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HeiGou
02-16-2006, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Hmm wonder why this movie was bann in America, and this was just an example there are MANY MORE!!
None of Michael Moore's films have been banned in America.

lol, ever thought WHY the Amercians wanted to bomb these stations!!
Not really. Who says they do?

Ever make you wonder how come these people always leave a tape and Why is it this tapes "falls" into the hands of the CIA after the bombing and Why these people make all the tapes see similer and why WE ONLY GET TO WATCH A SNAP SHOP huh Why Why Why!!!
I think the leave a tape for Dawa. The CIA does not usually get the tape, but a media outlet. Maybe there is only one cameraman who works for all the Jihadis. Who knows? They do not look alike to me. I saw all of the tape made by the guy who blew himself up in London. It was shown on TV too.
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knuckles
02-16-2006, 06:06 PM
Normally Al-Jazeera get these tapes not any government offices. Also F9/11 played for 12 weeks here in my town. It was certainly not banned. Free speech and all.
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FlagellumDei
02-16-2006, 06:07 PM
Hi!

At first I am european and christian and i want to keep my own faith! I dont like the violent mission what do often the muslim religion! I think about these cartoons were jewish provocations! Well known european nations think Israel the most dangerous for the worldpeace and sympathize with palestinians! After this case muslims from all over the world threaten european countries and nations, but the provocation made by jewish newspaper and journalists i m sure! And they reached their aim, hate against western and muslim world! But i know the main source of danger that jewish power what controll US and european governements, economies, financials and medias! What do u think about it?
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knuckles
02-16-2006, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by FlagellumDei
Hi!

At first I am european and christian and i want to keep my own faith! I dont like the violent mission what do often the muslim religion! I think about these cartoons were jewish provocations! Well known european nations think Israel the most dangerous for the worldpeace and sympathize with palestinians! After this case muslims from all over the world threaten european countries and nations, but the provocation made by jewish newspaper and journalists i m sure! And they reached their aim, hate against western and muslim world! But i know the main source of danger that jewish power what controll US and european governements, economies, financials and medias! What do u think about it?
Where's is you proof? What incentive do the Jews have to stir this up? You forget that Europe has had a long term distaste for the Jews, even more so than Arans. Even if the cartoons were to take support from the Pals, surely europeans wouldn't put it behing Israel.
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FlagellumDei
02-16-2006, 06:39 PM
Well known here comes every blasphemy against christianity or other religions (now islam) from jews! In my country also were such provocations! For example "art" exhibition where pig was crucified on cross by a jew called Nietsche, a jew announcer said in a radio at Christmas: "He should exterminate all christians..." And it should be continoued...
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knuckles
02-16-2006, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by FlagellumDei
Well known here comes every blasphemy against christianity or other religions (now islam) from jews! In my country also were such provocations! For example "art" exhibition where pig was crucified on cross by a jew called Nietsche, a jew announcer said in a radio at Christmas: "He should exterminate all christians..." And it should be continoued...
:mmokay: That seems far fetch to me. Obviously this would have been reported on. What country are you from and what aer your sources?
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czgibson
02-16-2006, 08:53 PM
Greetings Flagellum Dei,

Are you the Whip of God? Welcome to the forum! :)

Originally Posted by FlagellumDei
Well known here comes every blasphemy against christianity or other religions (now islam) from jews! In my country also were such provocations! For example "art" exhibition where pig was crucified on cross by a jew called Nietsche, a jew announcer said in a radio at Christmas: "He should exterminate all christians..." And it should be continoued...
Every blasphemy comes from Jews? Never heard that one before.

The art exhibition sounds interesting, although I know for a fact Nietzsche wasn't a Jew...

Peace
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seeker
02-16-2006, 09:07 PM
I think that annoying muslims will now be a common activity in the west.

Muhammed will soon be one of the most parodied names on the internet. And everyone will be trying to top the response from the Danes.

By doing so, all of the violent idiots will get so worked up into such a frenzy that they will do something crazy enough to justify killing them. After all, the only people that have died from this have been muslims.
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Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 10:37 PM
if the west is that bad and evil why do muslims emmigrate there why not stay in your own country and let us get on with it. No one asked us whether we wanted to be a multicultural society
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hamzaa
02-16-2006, 11:15 PM
peace, why doesn't the west leave muslim countries alone?
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Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 11:34 PM
Why have I just got a warning, its the truth though, there has never been a referendum on whether we should be a multicultural society. Maybe it would be better if we lived in seperate countries and mind our own business. As for leaving muslim countries alone I presume you mean afghanistan and iraq. Its already been mention that Iraq was worse off under sadams rule, if the west didnt get involved sadam would still be in power now and you'd all be begging the west for help. As for afghanistan, growing poppies to supply the world with opium, again the west had to get involved, it has been mentioned under taliban rule this never happened until the US/UN got involved, for such a peace teaching religion, even if it were because of the US/UN, why would a peace keeping muslim farmer grow a drug that kills thousands, abit contradictory. Thats our excuse for being in muslim countries, whats muslims excuse for being in ours. FOR A BETTER WAY OF LIFE !!! if not why else would muslims be here.
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aamirsaab
02-16-2006, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
Why have I just got a warning, its the truth though, there has never been a referendum on whether we should be a multicultural society. Maybe it would be better if we lived in seperate countries and mind our own business. As for leaving muslim countries alone I presume you mean afghanistan and iraq. Its already been mention that Iraq was worse off under sadams rule, if the west didnt get involved sadam would still be in power now and you'd all be begging the west for help.
Ironically enough, several weeks ago some of the Iraqi people actually wanted him back.

As for afghanistan, growing poppies to supply the world with opium, again the west had to get involved, it has been mentioned under taliban rule this never happened until the US/UN got involved, for such a peace teaching religion, even if it were because of the US/UN, why would a peace keeping muslim farmer grow a drug that kills thousands, abit contradictory. Thats our excuse for being in muslim countries, whats muslims excuse for being in ours. FOR A BETTER WAY OF LIFE !!! if not why else would muslims be here.
Of course America had to do it. I mean, they are the single saviours of the world (everybody say takbir!).
God forbid that they don't intervene with other countries and set up the American way of life - disrupting existing laws and rulings in that country.

Also, marijuana is used as a depressant - like any drug excess consumption or inhilation (sp) can prove fatal. It's not the farmer's fault that some buyers use it for reasons other than medicinal purposes is it (e.g. get high on it).

Marijuana is a drug just like any other. It just happens to grow in Afghanistan and certain people use it to get high.
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Muhammad
02-16-2006, 11:55 PM
Greetings,

It seems like there are quite a few discussions going on in here, not to mention that some of them are pretty off-topic! I thought I would respond to some points being made by Robert.Lane:

Islam is peace, dont seem very peaceful at the minute, id say quite the opposite.
I think that you are over-generalising on the one hand (in some of your posts) and also not making an important distinction; Islam is a religion and Muslims are people who try to follow that religion as best they can. Therefore we can say that Islam does not teach violence, yet some of its followers do not adhere so closely to its teachings, and thus show a false image to the world.

I understand that you feel all this protesting is drawing even more attention to the cartoons, and it's true. Protesting and rioting probably wasn't the best way to deal with the situation. It certainly isn't something that we are plainly taught. So what we should understand is that there are many Muslims out there - including scholars and people of knowledge - who condemn the violence and mayhem being caused by people who have not controlled their anger and vented their emotions in an unrepresentative way of Islam. Therefore grouping them under the same umbrella is not fair for all those who are not in agreement with such actions.

banners down in London said it all, Kill those who talk bad about mohammed. I dont know the bloke or really care.
The banners were not acceptable and in no way should be taken seriously to represent the views of all the Muslims who were not present in the protest. There have, however, been many peaceful responses to the cartoons that have unfortunately, not been noted.

if the west is that bad and evil why do muslims emmigrate there why not stay in your own country and let us get on with it. No one asked us whether we wanted to be a multicultural society
Well Muslims are in fact encouraged to migrate to a Muslim country where they will be able to practice their religion freely. Sadly, there is no country which implements Islam 100% and some Muslims don't have the ability to migrate anyway. It is, however, acceptable for Muslims to remain in a non-Muslim country in order to try and teach Islam while practising it as much as possible. Not all Muslims are like the ones you see on television, so while they might lead you to make judgements about others, please bear this fact in mind. Also, I believe Britain chose to be a multicultural society, and I hope by doing so we can be more tolerant and understanding of each others' beliefs, in addition to being able to have the freedom to practice them and the right to have them respected.

Evil seems to be the root of all evil, people pick an choose what they want to keep even though their religion blantantly says otherwise. Whether it be cristians, jew, moslims etc.. you are all hypocrites.
I hope we can see that this is a gross generalisation of millions of people. You are right that there are people out there who pick and choose their religion, however, this does not make all followers of the respective religions hypocrites.

You all worship the same god, there is only one god, but yet you all argue and fight over prophets. If moses, jesus, and mohamed were here today to see what theyve created they feel sick of them selves and sent you all to hell. Youre all as bad as each other, I guess you all deserve the suffering you afflict on each other. RELIGION the root of all EVIL!!!
There are a few misunderstandings here. Firstly, while the God of Islam, Christianity and Judaism is essentially the same, He is not recognised by everyone as being the same, and there are differences in all three religions as to the true identity and commandments of that God. We also believe in the same Prophets, but again they are viewed differently in the different religions.

Furthermore, while I agree that the world is not a perfect place; this is not the fault of any Prophet nor is it in their power to decide the destiny of anyone - that is an attribute of God only.

The last few assertions were rather unnecessary and I would advise you to avoid doing this again in future for the reasons that they are untrue, baseless and unhelpful.

My God is the same as yours the jews and the christians. You all believe in the same God but give him different names and have different ways of serving him. As for the name of God, who knows. He knows what he's doing and this is all meant to happen and one day we'll all feel like a bunch of --- when He shows us the truth.
Here, you correctly identified the case that the three faiths seem to have different ways of serving the same God. However, it is important to realise that God did not leave mankind without any means of finding the truth. He established evidence and proofs to allow us to distinguish between falsehood and truth; He sent Prophets to various nations to remind and guide them to what was correct; hence if we follow any path, we need to examine what evidence and authority it has in order to convince ourselves that it is indeed the true path to success.
In Islam, this evidence and proof is magnificently established through our holy book, the Qur'an, and through the teachings left behind by our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Of course there are people who act contrary to these teachings, yet that does not render them any less valid.

Why have I just got a warning
This warning is a result of your previous comments in this thread which were uncalled for. If you have any further enquiries about it, please feel free to contact me via private messaging.

Regards :).
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Robert.Lane@Ora
02-16-2006, 11:55 PM
get real they know exactly what its for, do you really think that they have all them thousands of acres of poppies for medicinal puroses. What wonderous drug do you get from poppies for medical purposes. r u for real!!!
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hamzaa
02-16-2006, 11:56 PM
rob, what u mean separate countries? based on colour or creed? Indeed the west are doing a marvellous job in liberating the freedom of the oppressed arent they? :rollseyes I gather you seen the footage of continous bombardment of killing civilians, torture and not the mention friendly fire!. Bush and co are no different to the evil regime of saddam. You'r probably aware both invasions were deemed illegal and the humiliation and embarassment is evident enough.. found those WMD's? Who says we cant co-exist and be tolerant to each other faiths?
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Robert.Lane@Ora
02-17-2006, 12:09 AM
They didnt need to find WMD's sadam had already used chemical weapons (WMD's) on the kurds his own people, as ive mentioned earlier. tolerant means you put up with something you dont agree to. Why should we be tolerant after all you have come to this country and look at all the problems there has been. If the west went to Iraq and started putting up churches or synagoges theyre would be murder. You should be grateful for what this country has done for you, parading down london doesnt really do you selves any favors and as soon as someone mentions it you all say its unacceptable but then youll soon go running down to protest once our backs are turned
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czgibson
02-17-2006, 12:14 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
get real they know exactly what its for, do you really think that they have all them thousands of acres of poppies for medicinal puroses. What wonderous drug do you get from poppies for medical purposes. r u for real!!!
The poppies you speak of produce opium, the active ingredient of which is morphine, the greatest natural painkiller known to mankind. The synthesis known as heroin is related to morphine (in its pure form it's known as diamorphine), and that is the most effective painkiller known to mankind, natural or synthetic. When being treated in hospitals for extreme pain, in most cases what patients are given is diamorphine - nothing less than pure heroin. It has medical purposes, but as we all know it can be abused - its painkilling properties are highly addictive.

Peace
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Robert.Lane@Ora
02-17-2006, 12:20 AM
you learn something new everyday. . . still doesnt change the fact that the farmers over there know exactly what theyre selling and its not just for the said legitimate purose but for drug lords supplying the world and killing thousands
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hamzaa
02-17-2006, 12:22 AM
rob, remind me once again what was the sole intention of bush in invading iraq?? elaborate on the probs that have been caused upon arrival as you put it, presuming muslims? Any examples of this country doing favours, asides from the mass murder of civilans etc.
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czgibson
02-17-2006, 12:32 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
you learn something new everyday. . . still doesnt change the fact that the farmers over there know exactly what theyre selling and its not just for the said legitimate purose but for drug lords supplying the world and killing thousands
You're quite right. However, these farmers are very poor, and they've got a choice to make. Either grow something to feed the population of their country, or grow something that's immensely profitable, but which can have very harmful effects if abused.

Why is heroin so profitable? Because it's illegal in so many countries, and those who sell the drug to addicts do not need to use marketing...

Peace
Reply

FlagellumDei
02-17-2006, 07:17 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings Flagellum Dei,

Are you the Whip of God? Welcome to the forum! :)



Every blasphemy comes from Jews? Never heard that one before.

The art exhibition sounds interesting, although I know for a fact Nietzsche wasn't a Jew...

Peace
FlagellumDei was the name of the legendary hun king Attila! :) I think about THIS conflict (cartoons) this is a jewish intrigues, that make conflict between western and eastern world! I spoke about Nietsche like a new yorker, jewish artist, not about the philosopher in 19th century! Ok? ;-)
Reply

Sis786
02-17-2006, 09:12 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou

I think the leave a tape for Dawa. The CIA does not usually get the tape, but a media outlet. Maybe there is only one cameraman who works for all the Jihadis. Who knows? They do not look alike to me. I saw all of the tape made by the guy who blew himself up in London. It was shown on TV too.
Let me make this simple. Answer me these questions,

1. Do you believe what the Goverment have told you about 9/11
2. What do you think pushes a perfectly happy teenager into blowing himself up leaving behind his child and wife.
3. Do you trust Bush and Blair?
4. Do you feel that the war on Terror is to root out Terroist.
5. Do you think the war on iraq was to remove a Dictator Saddam from power.
6. DO you think Iran is wrong in thier policies.

Knuckles this one for you too!!!
Reply

HeiGou
02-17-2006, 09:14 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Let me make this simple. Answer me these questions,

1. Do you believe what the Goverment have told you about 9/11
I don't think the government has told me very much. I tend to believe what the media have told me about 9-11.

2. What do you think pushes a perfectly happy teenager into blowing himself up leaving behind his child and wife.
His religious faith.

3. Do you trust Bush and Blair?
Well mildly I suppose. Not as much as I used to.

4. Do you feel that the war on Terror is to root out Terroist.
Yes.

5. Do you think the war on iraq was to remove a Dictator Saddam from power.
Yes.

6. DO you think Iran is wrong in thier policies.
Which policies? In general, yes.
Reply

Sis786
02-17-2006, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
you learn something new everyday. . . still doesnt change the fact that the farmers over there know exactly what theyre selling and its not just for the said legitimate purose but for drug lords supplying the world and killing thousands
I agree with you that those that Sell Drugs and Make or Prouduce Drugs are Killers. My Cousin lives in Afghanistan, He lives in an Village that had yards and yards of this drug. Under the Taliban regime they were not allowed to sell or grow this. Most went into Debt. Yes like any OTHER power there were a few that were corrupt and they would allow the Farmers to grow in a small section of thier land away from public view.

My Cousin who has lived in Afghansitan was sayign that the Country has fallen to bits. Ovbsiouly you dont see this on the TV, as the Media only goona show all the GOOD parts. But he goes that where he s lives and near by there is constant bombing and the lands are dry. Where they would grow crops have been bombed YET the parts that they grow Drugs are UNDER THE miltary control and NOW again the Drug is being produced!!
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Sis786
02-17-2006, 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I don't think the government has told me very much. I tend to believe what the media have told me about 9-11.
But media has showed you like 300 hundred different stories. Im not sure whether you watched 9/11 Conspircies it came on channel 4 last year and they showed almost 7 stories each with evidence. SO what do you believe happened on that day?


Originally Posted by HeiGou
His religious faith..
Do you think that this is the same for ALL the Suicide Bombings.


Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well mildly I suppose. Not as much as I used to..
What made you changed your mind?



Originally Posted by HeiGou
Yes..
Why do you feel that America never started this was on Terror in countries like Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordon,??????????


Originally Posted by HeiGou
Yes.
You beileve that war which has cost Billions of pounds, Jepordised the reputation of Blair and Bush, Made enimies with other countries, Broke UN rules, Cost lives was all to remove Saddam?



Originally Posted by HeiGou
Which policies? In general, yes.
Nuclear Weapons!
Reply

aamirsaab
02-17-2006, 10:37 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Robert.Lane@Ora
you learn something new everyday. . . still doesnt change the fact that the farmers over there know exactly what theyre selling and its not just for the said legitimate purose but for drug lords supplying the world and killing thousands.
If that is the case, what was the point of American forces coming in to Afghanistan? To prevent it from reaching the states? Ha, fat lot of good that did. Also, many people require marijuana for the reasons czgibson stated - some of them are americans - this is probably a more believable reason to "invade" afghanistan - 'take their drugs because we need em'. Whilst marijuana has as you claimed killed thousands of people, it has also saved thousands.


p.s. compared to veitnam, hiroshima and nagasaki, 9/11 was nothing.
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czgibson
02-17-2006, 02:10 PM
Greetings aamirsaab,
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
If that is the case, what was the point of American forces coming in to Afghanistan? To prevent it from reaching the states? Ha, fat lot of good that did. Also, many people require marijuana for the reasons czgibson stated - some of them are americans - this is probably a more believable reason to "invade" afghanistan - 'take their drugs because we need em'. Whilst marijuana has as you claimed killed thousands of people, it has also saved thousands.
The drug that comes from the poppies is morphine, not marijuana. Marijuana is totally different. Marijuana is a plant (also known as cannabis) whose leaves are smoked by users for a euphoric, giggly effect. It's not a particularly effective painkiller, and in over 10,000 years of use, not one person has died as a result of using it.

Peace
Reply

aamirsaab
02-17-2006, 02:41 PM
:sl:
Thank you for correcting me :).
Reply

HeiGou
02-17-2006, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
But media has showed you like 300 hundred different stories. Im not sure whether you watched 9/11 Conspircies it came on channel 4 last year and they showed almost 7 stories each with evidence. SO what do you believe happened on that day?
For some reason there seems to be a flood of consioracy theories these days. But I think the simplest explanation is likely to be the best and besides I saw OBL on TV saying what a great thing it was. And that he did it.

Certainly something has changed. 50, 40, 30 years ago there were no suicide bombers in the West or elsewhere. There are now. The British and American governments are the same. Israel is still there. Something has changed. I notice that the same period has seen a rise in Islamic assertion generally and that has a dangerous, if marginal, fringe. Which is more likely - the new thing is caused by the other new thing or by the old thing?

Do you think that this is the same for ALL the Suicide Bombings.
Well the Tamils have suicide bombing and that is motivated by politics. So in general, I think all suicide bombings are motivated by radical politics of one sort or another.

What made you changed your mind?
The failure to find WMD.

Why do you feel that America never started this was on Terror in countries like Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordon,??????????
Pakistan is odd because obviously America is pursuing terrorists and the states that back them. Pakistan is obviously not entirely blameless in that respect. Israel only brutalises Palestinians. Saudi Arabia is co-operative and only brutalises Saudis and guest workers. Jordan is blameless. Afghanistan was not. There is no other reason for the US to be there. It is remote. It is poor and strategically useless. It has no oil. Iraq was unfinished business and whether Bush was right or wrong, no one is going to miss Saddam.

You beileve that war which has cost Billions of pounds, Jepordised the reputation of Blair and Bush, Made enimies with other countries, Broke UN rules, Cost lives was all to remove Saddam?
Yes.

Nuclear Weapons!
I think there are people I would not like to see have nuclear weapons. And repressive non-democratic states with long histories of political instability and dangerous political leaders fall into that category. Whatever is wrong with Abu Ghraib, Erivan is much worse.
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Sis786
02-17-2006, 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
For some reason there seems to be a flood of consioracy theories these days. But I think the simplest explanation is likely to be the best and besides I saw OBL on TV saying what a great thing it was. And that he did it..
Lol ok i will leave you to your thought. Just wondering i mean sorry i do have a wondering head. When the Americans were bombing all these places in Afghansitan and killing hundreds of people SUPRINSGLY vidoe footage of OBL and paperwork saying "Oh yes 9/11 i did that" were untouched. Sorry do ignore my wondering mind!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Certainly something has changed. 50, 40, 30 years ago there were no suicide bombers in the West or elsewhere. There are now. The British and American governments are the same. Israel is still there. Something has changed. I notice that the same period has seen a rise in Islamic assertion generally and that has a dangerous, if marginal, fringe. Which is more likely - the new thing is caused by the other new thing or by the old thing?.
Ok, Muslims been around for ages. Yeah OBL is what like almost 50 years old. BUT it was ONLY until BUSH came in power that OBL decided to KILL loads of Americans and it was ONLY when BUSH came to power that SADDAM became fore evil that the world could not bear. Ever thought WHY suicde bombings werent popular before 9/11? I mean evil existed then too... :?


Originally Posted by HeiGou
The failure to find WMD..
Lol were you expecting them to find some.LOL OF COURSE there werent no WMD why u think thye never allow the UN to do the checks... My son there is something called OIL and it makes GREEDy PEOPLE EVIL and thats what happened.



Originally Posted by HeiGou
Israel only brutalises Palestinians. .
B*******

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Saudi Arabia is co-operative and only brutalises Saudis and guest workers. .
Nope Saudi have Oil and again gives POWER! to people

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Jordan is blameless. .
Werent they also hosting Terroists


Originally Posted by HeiGou
Afghanistan was not. .
Lol yeah i mean what right did the Taliban have for asking Bush for evidence against OBL before handing him over I MEAN THE NERVE.

Originally Posted by HeiGou
There is no other reason for the US to be there..
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Originally Posted by HeiGou
It is remote. It is poor and strategically useless. .
Hmmm not to Bush he has OTHER plans!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
It has no oil. Iraq was unfinished business and whether Bush was right or wrong, no one is going to miss Saddam..
Nope BUT no one is welcoming Bush niether

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Yes. .
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Originally Posted by HeiGou
I think there are people I would not like to see have nuclear weapons. And repressive non-democratic states with long histories of political instability and dangerous political leaders fall into that category. Whatever is wrong with Abu Ghraib, Erivan is much worse.
Every country has the right to defend itself and lets say If i was Iran i would not be sleeping soundly with the New neighbours and that
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wysiwyg
02-18-2006, 07:21 AM
I would say HeiGou is one who is on the "marginal fringe" of extreme thinking in support of what the Bush Administration is doing. it takes one marginal fringe to inflame another, and HeiGou would be in the same company as OBL.

There is a conspiracy theory that says that OBL purposely chose Saudi nationals to be prominent amongst the 9/11 bombers to make Saudi Arabia look bad. The reality is that OBL himself came from Saudi, which is the center of the most extreme form of Islam and is the source of greatest hostility because it is a dictatorship run by the Saud family with the military and economic support of the US for the sake of protecting the oil fields.

So long as there are Americans around with the same attitude as HeiGou then we are going to have a situation...
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HeiGou
02-18-2006, 08:50 AM
Originally Posted by wysiwyg
I would say HeiGou is one who is on the "marginal fringe" of extreme thinking in support of what the Bush Administration is doing. it takes one marginal fringe to inflame another, and HeiGou would be in the same company as OBL.
Well I rather like being on the marginal fringe, but what it is you think I have said that makes you put me on the fringe? And exactly how does hoping the Iraq mess works out equate to murdering 3000 people?

So long as there are Americans around with the same attitude as HeiGou then we are going to have a situation...
So the Americans are to blame for 9-11 are they?
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HeiGou
02-18-2006, 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Ok, Muslims been around for ages. Yeah OBL is what like almost 50 years old. BUT it was ONLY until BUSH came in power that OBL decided to KILL loads of Americans and it was ONLY when BUSH came to power that SADDAM became fore evil that the world could not bear. Ever thought WHY suicde bombings werent popular before 9/11? I mean evil existed then too... :?
It was only once GWB was in power that OBL managed to kill loads of Americans. He had been trying to years before. Remember the first attempt on the World Trade Center!

Actually it was when George Bush Senior came to power that Saddam got in trouble.

Suicide bombings were popular before 9-11 in certain communities. Look at Israel. Look at Lebanon. What 9-11 clearly has done is radicalised a whole group of Western Muslims and brought that sort of terror to the West. Can't think why that might be. Remember that they murdered Ahmad Shah Masoud before 9-11 - Western Muslims who were suicide bombers.

Lol were you expecting them to find some.LOL OF COURSE there werent no WMD why u think thye never allow the UN to do the checks... My son there is something called OIL and it makes GREEDy PEOPLE EVIL and thats what happened.
I did not expect much but I expected some, so it was a little bit of a surprise. They allowed the UN to do checks. For years they allowed the UN to do checks. But Saddam evaded those checks. Whatever else you can say about Bush, he brought the problem to and end. He resolved the whole issue with inspections and sanctions.

Werent they also hosting Terroists
Not as far as I know but I know little about the subject.

Lol yeah i mean what right did the Taliban have for asking Bush for evidence against OBL before handing him over I MEAN THE NERVE.
Although they also said they would not hand him over to kafirs but would to Saudi. In normal times they might have got away with that, but America is a powerful country and it was angry. Co-operation was the only viable policy and the Taliban opted not to.

Nope BUT no one is welcoming Bush niether
I am not sure that is entirely true. People did. But the Americans blew it with their incompetence and arrogance. But there is still a certain level of support. Afghanistan is the odd case because there is clearly a lot of support there still.

Every country has the right to defend itself and lets say If i was Iran i would not be sleeping soundly with the New neighbours and that
Last I checked no one was invading Iran. I agree in general. If I were Iran I would be nervous too. But an invasion is not likely. Even if it was, there is a treaty there, to which Iran is a signatory, designed to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons. I do not think Iran shoudl break that. But if I were Iranian I would want nuclear weapons too.
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