UK troops brutally abuse Iraqi teens

[mahdisoldier19]

If any christian or athiest on this board still tries to degrade Islam in the manner of accusing it of being horrible religion of hate violence or intolerance watch this video.

AND STILL IF YOU HAVE THE HEART TO ARGUE FURTHER disrespecting Islam,

I will meet you anywhere in New York and i will love for you to attempt to beat me like how they did And you can bring a stick and try to beat me like how they did.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m20571&l=i&size=1&hd=0

[Isaac]

Salam. Sorry bro. I started a similiar thread under general chat earlier. Forgive me bro. i picked the worng section. Salam.

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam alaikam

Its ok , I wonder who can control their anger?

From 1 to 10 Im holding up at 9.9

Anyone on this board that justifies this

all i can say is wow

[Isaac]

I was eating breakfast when i saw this. And i swear i could not eat after watching that. This is disgutsing to the bone. These are 8 men dressed in full armour with metal toe caps beating sensless young kids. I want the so called muslim organsiations in the uk that say they represnt us to stand up to the evils being commited in the lands of islam. I want us muslims to stick together and fight the conmon goal which opression, murder, abuse and the list goes on. I would like to c how this take a turn espceially in such a time. now i bet you when somebrothers epeak out about this abuse on the media in whatver way the feel, because they will be angry, they will be called extremist. sorry for grammar peepe. im angry. very angry. enough is enough. muslims can only take so much humiliaton. does any body know how to merge the threads or delet the one in general chat.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[fredbear]

The fact that British or American (or Russian) soldiers can inflict brutality has no bearing on brutality done in the name of Islam. It is possible that both societies have elements of violence and barbarism.

It is the duty of peaceful people everywhere to expose the brutality within their own societies. That is how this video came to light. One soldier brought it to the media, and now the British Military are attempting to discern the facts and will prosecute the offenders.

What I would like to see is peaceful Muslims expose the barbarism in their world. I would like to see much stronger, unqualified, condemnation of the atrocities that are perpetrated in the name of Islam. Here in these forums there is much glorification of 'brave mujhaideen', and boasting of fighting and dying for Allah. Yet I see little but meaningless plattitudes and scant concern for the victims of London, Madrid, or Bali bombings.

Clean your own house before you accuse others.

[Isaac]

If you look fredbar around the wolrd, were ever there is a conflict going on there are mujahideens fighting in defense. Afgahnsiatn was invaded, iraq was invaded, the mujahideens are just defending their religion and lands. Fighting in defense is allowed under any thought of mind. if your house r someone in our family was being attacked will you stand back or try to defend with whatever means possible. and do you thinkthe media is going to show the side of islam which isnt about jihad. yes in islam there is jihad. there is a time and place for jihad. there is also helping the poor, the orphans, the widows, respecting your neighbous, giving in charity, helping the traveeler in need. But its strange why they never show that side in the media. The media is the biggest tool used to defeat muslims after 9/11. beofre 911 i cant ever remember hearing the word muslim or islam in the media.

[fredbear]

If you look fredbar around the wolrd, were ever there is a conflict going on there are mujahideens fighting in defense. Afgahnsiatn was invaded, iraq was invaded, the mujahideens are just defending their religion and lands. Fighting in defense is allowed under any thought of mind. if your house r someone in our family was being attacked will you stand back or try to defend with whatever means possible. and do you thinkthe media is going to show the side of islam which isnt about jihad. yes in islam there is jihad. there is a time and place for jihad. there is also helping the poor, the orphans, the widows, respecting your neighbous, giving in charity, helping the traveeler in need. But its strange why they never show that side in the media. The media is the biggest tool used to defeat muslims after 9/11. beofre 911 i cant ever remember hearing the word muslim or islam in the media.

Who were the Madrid bombers defending? Who were the London bombers defending? Who were the Bali bombers defending? It's not the media that's giving Islam a bad name, it's the bombs. If you can't see that, you're truly beyond all logic. Sympathy for the plight of Muslims sinks every time some crazy fanatic goes to Allah, or slices off the head of an aid worker. If you want to defend Islam, you'd be far better off trying to stop the bombs. No wailing about some stupid cartoons or justifying the taking of childern hostages. These obsceneties must stop if you want any legitimacey on the world stage. I'm not trying to condemn you, or your religion, I'm trying to help you.

[Isaac]

If you want to help get the evil troops who commit atrocites brought to justice in whatever way you can. one better get the troops out of land that does not belong to them. yeh operation freedom . like !!!! operation freedom. more like operation opression. all muslim estimated at 2 million in the uk should if of reasonable age and health shoud ifthey want to show their condemnation of this should right to these sol called muslim represntitives and demand action now. if there is no cange the its obvious we dont really care whats going on. just look at how many poeple turned up to the demonstartion. you could probabl count them all. theres is easily 1 million muslims who are cacapable of coming to a demonstration. its disgusting to see the state of the ummah today. but you know what, we only have ou selves to blame.

[fredbear]

I'm still waiting for condemnation of the mass-murder of innocent civillians.

If you believe that the bombings are justified, I can respect that. I respect honesty. It means that you are strong enough to stand up for what you believe even if it isn't popular. But calling Islam a religion of peace is a stretch if you feel that the London bombings are justifiable. Is it not a sin to Islam to lie?

[Isaac]

Fredbar. My personal opinion and yes my opinion not those who might justify it is that it was wrong. Those who carried it out might have had other reasons. But you got to ask yourself why was it london? Is it because this country is in a country across the other side of the world killing innconcent muslims is cos they have attacked inncoenct muslims in afghanistan. Ithnk that just cos these government are killing innocoent in muslim countries it doesnt t mean muslims whould attack innocents in this country. For any body from iraq or afghanistan i can not speak for. But why why why why why is it ok and not condemed when british or american troops blow up a wedding party, blow up a group of people running from a helicopter firing on them, use chemical weapomns in falluja, kills young children, beating innocent people up, kidnapping the wifes of the mujahideen. You could condemn tha ctions on the london and spain, but why do you condemn the actiosn of those who are fighting for the religions and land from evil occupation. 2 wrongs dont make a rght, but that doesnt mean 1 wrong goes without being condemned. ether way around the problem why so many people are gaints and proballby the reason why the train bombng happend is because of the illegal war in afghanisatn and iraq. yes illegal, brutal occupation. and all based o lies. yet they say theay attcked afghanisatn becuase the taliban refused to hand bin laden over. did you know why they refused. Let me tell you someting the media wont. the taiban provided the usa with 3 options. number 1 - said we will defintly had him over. only on one condition you provide us evdence that bin laden was directly or indirectly involved in 911. no evidence, so no binladen. but lets jus bomb the hell out of afghanisatn, cos the emergnce of an islamic state is a threat to the west especially if it spreads to the mid east. BSo in the name of democracy they have killed a country which was alreday destryed by decaded of war. END RESULT, sucide bombings, killing of inncoenct people, reprodcution of large volumes of poppy fields, which will later be turned into heroin and found in the streets of uk, usa and south america being usedby our kids, daughters or people we know, more hatred f the west.

Lets move onto iraq. Saddam hussein has chemical weapons. go to the un. un and iaea PROVES there are o chemical weapons, but bush junior had revge on his hands. he wanted to finish his fathers job off. he wanted to make sure saddam wasno longer there. END result = suicide bombers, killing of incoenct, brutality, murder, and rape by SOME britsh and QUITE A FEW american troops, secterian violence between shias and sunnis, more dead american and britsih soldeiers fighting in a war they were orderd to under false pretenses, no WMD, NO WMDS NO WMDS or chemical weaposn, the destruction of whatver was left of the countrys infrastructure after evil sanctions that killed thousands, the detsrcution of fallujha which was known as the city of mosques, destruction of religuious sites. MOST of ALL Probably WW3.

And know they are threatining iran because they say theay are building a nuke. i dontk know how this guy and his murdeous crew even have the nerve to put such an accusation across seeing the failed miserably to find chemical weapons in iraq. i dont see how the public can support the two biggetss liars in the world.

but the real terrorist i suppose are those innocent iraqis and afghanis fighting this illegal occupation and murder. BRavo to the western idea of democracy, morals and values. bravo.
thats all i have to say.

[Anette]

If any christian or athiest on this board still tries to degrade Islam in the manner of accusing it of being horrible religion of hate violence or intolerance watch this video.

AND STILL IF YOU HAVE THE HEART TO ARGUE FURTHER disrespecting Islam,

I will meet you anywhere in New York and i will love for you to attempt to beat me like how they did And you can bring a stick and try to beat me like how they did.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m20571&l=i&size=1&hd=0

The truth is that I could not even force my self to look at this. Neither did I forced myself watching the slicing throats of hostages that was everywhere on the Internet at that time. I do not want to see evilness that close I know it is out there in the world but I do not want to watch it. It has nothing to do with not seeing the truth.

Beating up someone, especially a child/youth in hate, is always wrong. How can anyone defend that kind of behaviour? Not me anyway. There is no sane human that can tell you this is all right so I certainly not will tell you that. Evilness is never a thing to defend. Evilness has nothing to do with religion.

[DaSangarTalib]

The British government announced it has launched an "urgent" probe into a video tape showing British soldiers abusing and mercilessly beating four Iraqi teenagers.

Images from the film showing British soldiers kicking, punching and striking young Iraqi civilians with batons, have been published by the News of the World.

A military spokesman in Iraq condemned "all acts of abuse and brutality" by British troops, claiming that the recent abuse scandal is related to a "tiny number" of soldiers, recalling similar remarks made by the U.S. PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH when ABU GHRAIB abuse scandal first broke out in April 2004.

The Ministry of Defence is probing the allegation, which, according to News of the World, took place in southern IRAQ in 2004.

In the tape, described as a "secret home video" and apparently filmed for fun by a corporal, an unidentified cameraman is heard laughing and urging his colleagues on, the BBC said on its website.

British military spokesman Flight Lieutenant Chris Thomas, based in Basra, said: "We hope that the good relations that the multi-national forces have worked very hard to develop won't be adversely affected by this material".
In the film depicting a disturbance in a street in which a military compound is located, appears a groups of British soldiers chasing Iraqi teens, dragging them into the compound and beating them brutally with batons and kicking them, one in the genitals.

The tape, which shows a minute's worth of the attack, with 42 blows counted, was shown at the troops' home base in Europe before it was handed over by a whistleblower.

According to the paper, one soldier was shown twice kicking a dead Iraqi in the face.

Last year, three British troops were jailed and thrown out of the Army for their involvement in a prisoner abuse case in IRAQ.

[sonz]

salama

i was shocked. did u see how the teenagers were screaming and pleading "please please stop"

may allah azwajjal curse them. and this is what they call liberation. hypocrisy at it bests. to watch the video check these links

Windows Media:


300K Broadband




56K Modems/ Mobiles

Real Video:


300K Broadband




56K Modems / Mobiles

[Kittygyal]

oh my god!
i was just proper shocked seeing lil kids gettin beaten by soldiers...
this is just disgraceful...its just so not ryt.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wen i was lukin at the news the only thing that i wanted to do is kill da soldiers....!!!!!!!!!
they jus broke me heart:(

[DaSangarTalib]

not surprised i already knew this is what these dogs do behind the scenes...

May these dogs be disgraced at the hands of the mujahideen Ameen Summa Ameen

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

So some say Oh Look what they did cutting the Heads off, Did they not say leave their land for they did not do anything to hurt anyone else?

Why is the head cutting off only occuring In IraQ?


BECAUSE USA BRITISH INVADED THE LAND WITH NO JUSTIFCATION

Weapons of Mass destruction?
Nothing Found

What else is there need to be said?

[Anette]

Salam Alaikam

So some say Oh Look what they did cutting the Heads off, Did they not say leave their land for they did not do anything to hurt anyone else?

Why is the head cutting off only occuring In IraQ?

Two wrongs doesn’t do one right

BECAUSE USA BRITISH INVADED THE LAND WITH NO JUSTIFCATION

Weapons of Mass destruction?
Nothing Found

What else is there need to be said?

I do not going to argue with this but I want to add a couple of things

Protection of democracy?
No, this is to misuse the word democracy and drag it into the dirt.

How about oil?
Presumably, this option is even more likely if I consider Bush's personally interest in the oil business.

But this thread really was about the poor boys that got beat up by some evil humans. I’m not going to defend cutting heads or beating children, ever. But I will stand up for not invade other countries or for stop meaningless violence.

[mahdisoldier19]

And anette i agree with you,

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I'm still waiting for condemnation of the mass-murder of innocent civillians.

If you believe that the bombings are justified, I can respect that. I respect honesty. It means that you are strong enough to stand up for what you believe even if it isn't popular. But calling Islam a religion of peace is a stretch if you feel that the London bombings are justifiable. Is it not a sin to Islam to lie?

You have no right to say that Islam isnt a religion of peace. You remain blind to the crimes of the West. West meaning America, Europe and Isreal. You remain blind to what these so called 'freedom' lovers and 'democracy' supportors do. And you have the nerve to call Muslims terrorists when they are simply resisting to what the western armies have done to them. You always bring forth the same arguments, 9/11 and the Londen bombings, and the Madrid bombings. Hmm i only see 3 events. Thats quite small to what the West has done. But you wont ever see that, becuase you tend to push guilt on someone other then yourselves. You will always be 'liberating', yet what your doing is in fact destroying families, killing children, and when those who are being oppressed resist, they are given the label of Terrorists and theyre religion is not a religion of peace. You have no right to make such a stereoptypical comment. The western countries are no more then 2 faced liars, where neither face tells the truth, and each claims that they are helping.
Islam is a religion of peace, but we are allowed to strike back when we have been attacked first. The west denies that it oppressed the Muslims first. You dont even see that on the media over here, all you see is a twisted form of whats actually going on. Its best if you check your sources and look at history from a unbiased view, if not you will always be making uneducated comments such as that.

Regards.

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

THE ONLY PEOPLE TO USE ATOMIC BOMBS, USA!
crUSAders!

THE ONLY SOCIETY THATS DECAYING, USA!

CORRUPT GOVT OVER $$$, USA!

Dont get wrong i like the US people, i live in NYC lol but the govt eh nonono

[HeiGou]

Salam Alaikam

THE ONLY PEOPLE TO USE ATOMIC BOMBS, USA!
crUSAders!

THE ONLY SOCIETY THATS DECAYING, USA!

CORRUPT GOVT OVER $$$, USA!

Dont get wrong i like the US people, i live in NYC lol but the govt eh nonono

Well it is true that the US is the only country to use atomic bombs. They are, after all, very clever people and have invented many things first before anyone else. It is noticeable that they have not used them for 60 years or so despite having them. Would Muslim (that is to say, Muslim, not Islamic) countries have done any different? Well they did not invent the Bomb. And they have not managed to make one (except for Pakistan). But they have managed to make chemical weapons. Have they been happy to use those WMDs on each other? Well Egypt used them in Yemen. Iraq used them in Iraqi Kurdistan and Iran.

As for the US decaying, that may be true in some general term. But I would give money that the US, which has been stable for a long time, will go on being stable for longer. Rebellion is not what the US does because of the system, as imperfect as it is, works. Does anyone think there is a single Muslim regime that will outlast the US? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Syria?

As for corruption, let me point you to the figures from your site, count the Muslim (not Islamic) countries ahead of the US.

#1 Bangladesh 8.7
#2 Nigeria 8.6
#3 Haiti 8.5
#4 Burma 8.4
#5 Paraguay 8.4
#6 Azerbaijan 8.2
#7 Cameroon 8.2
#8 Tajikistan 8.2
#9 Angola 8.2
#10 Georgia 8.2
#11 Indonesia 8.1
#12 Kenya 8.1
#13 Papua New Guinea 7.9
#14 Kyrgyzstan 7.9
#15 Libya 7.9
#16 Iraq 7.8
#17 Congo, Republic of the 7.8
#18 Ecuador 7.8
#19 Sierra Leone 7.8
#20 Uganda 7.8
#21 Bolivia 7.7
#22 Ukraine 7.7
#23 Zimbabwe 7.7
#24 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of 7.7
#25 Sudan 7.7
#26 Honduras 7.7
#27 Moldova 7.6
#28 Uzbekistan 7.6
#29 Vietnam 7.6
#30 Kazakhstan 7.6
#31 Venezuela 7.6
#32 Guatemala 7.6
#33 Argentina 7.5
#34 Ethiopia 7.5
#35 Philippines 7.5
#36 Albania 7.5
#37 Pakistan 7.5
#38 Tanzania 7.5
#39 Zambia 7.5
#40 Gambia, The 7.5
#41 Algeria 7.4
#42 Yemen 7.4
#43 Madagascar 7.4
#44 Nicaragua 7.4
#45 Mozambique 7.3
#46 Russia 7.3
#47 India 7.2
#48 Malawi 7.2
#49 Romania 7.2
#50 Mali 7
#51 Armenia 7
#52 Iran 7
#53 Lebanon 7
#54 Turkey 6.9
#55 Senegal 6.8
#56 Thailand 6.7
#57 Dominican Republic 6.7
#58 Ghana 6.7
#59 Egypt 6.7
#60 Morocco 6.7
#61 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6.7
#62 Sri Lanka 6.6
#63 China 6.6
#64 Syria 6.6
#65 Panama 6.6
#66 Poland 6.4
#67 Mexico 6.4
#68 Croatia 6.3
#69 El Salvador 6.3
#70 Peru 6.3
#71 Slovakia 6.3
#72 Colombia 6.3
#73 Latvia 6.2
#74 Jamaica 6.2
#75 Czech Republic 6.1
#76 Bulgaria 6.1
#77 Brazil 6.1
#78 Belarus 5.8
#79 Korea, South 5.7
#80 Greece 5.7
#81 Costa Rica 5.7
#82 Mauritius 5.6
#83 South Africa 5.6
#84 Saudi Arabia 5.5
#85 Belize 5.5
#86 Cuba 5.4
#87 Jordan 5.4
#88 Trinidad and Tobago 5.4
#89 Namibia 5.3
#90 Lithuania 5.3
#91 Hungary 5.2
#92 Tunisia 5.1
#93 United Arab Emirates 4.8
#94 Malaysia 4.8
#95 Kuwait 4.7
#96 Italy 4.7
#97 Estonia 4.5
#98 Uruguay 4.5
#99 Qatar 4.4
#100 Taiwan 4.3
#101 Botswana 4.3
#102 Slovenia 4.1
#103 Bahrain 3.9
#104 Cyprus 3.9
#105 Oman 3.7
#106 Portugal 3.4
#107 France 3.1
#108 Spain 3.1
#109 Japan 3
#110 Israel 3
#111 Chile 2.6
#112 United States 2.5
#113 Ireland 2.5
#114 Belgium 2.4
#115 Germany 2.3
#116 Hong Kong 2
#117 Austria 2
#118 United Kingdom 1.3
#119 Canada 1.3
#120 Luxembourg 1.3
#121 Switzerland 1.2
#122 Australia 1.2
#123 Norway 1.2
#124 Netherlands 1.1
#125 Sweden 0.7
#126 Singapore 0.6
#127 New Zealand 0.5
#128 Denmark 0.5
#129 Iceland 0.4
#130 Finland 0.3

[wysiwyg]

Video Of Soldiers beating Little Kids

You won't see this happening in Islamic states because their governments censor the media, yet we all know that it does. What this video depicts is disgusting, and Muslim viewers should learn from this that one should never let too much power get in the hands of government, through any kind of law, including sharia law. That is why we have freedom of the press in the west, to help us to stop these kinds of actions against citizens. There will be consequences as a result of these videos for which we have only the press to thank. Those consequences will mean that it is less likely to happen again. No such checks and balances exist in Muslim countries.

Salaam

[HeiGou]

If any christian or athiest on this board still tries to degrade Islam in the manner of accusing it of being horrible religion of hate violence or intolerance watch this video.

I have never accused Islam of being a religion of hate, but out of curiousity, why does this video, whatever it shows, proof anything either way? Are you saying, I take it there are Westerners beating children in said pictures, that this is unique to the Western world? That Muslims never do such things? That no child has been beating on a regular basis in Pakistani madrassas? That this somehow proves that Islam is something and the West is something else?

[mahdisoldier19]

Video Of Soldiers beating Little Kids

You won't see this happening in Islamic states because their governments censor the media, yet we all know that it does. What this video depicts is disgusting, and Muslim viewers should learn from this that one should never let too much power get in the hands of government, through any kind of law, including sharia law. That is why we have freedom of the press in the west, to help us to stop these kinds of actions against citizens. There will be consequences as a result of these videos for which we have only the press to thank. Those consequences will mean that it is less likely to happen again. No such checks and balances exist in Muslim countries.

Salaam

Oh yeah you help stop these things you stop them right?

Guantamano bay? What happen the media the soldiers OH THATS RIGHT THE SOLDIERS GOT ONLY A FEW MONTHS

Oh These soldiers im sure they will be contragadulated by other prison mates.
Dont give me that trying to justify your way.

The women that are being raped and beaten in Abu ghraib? Thats the western media right there for ya?

OHHH WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!!! your talking about the western media that never showed the bin laden tape where he denied the 9/11 attacks Oh that Media!

Uh oh wait a minute you forgot to add my friend the media that states its true.

First of all you if you live in the west know the Media never gives the true story of things in majority of cases?

[mahdisoldier19]

As for you, I will fix you abit

First of all, Saudia arabia and iran have been monarchies for thousands of years. America what 250+ years and what decaying ?

[HeiGou]

Guantamano bay? What happen the media the soldiers OH THATS RIGHT THE SOLDIERS GOT ONLY A FEW MONTHS

Well that was not good. But perhaps you could tell me when anyone in any Islamic or Muslim country got even two weeks for abusing detainees in their prisons? Iran operated death squads that killed liberal journalists. How long did they get in prison?

And incidentally, here are the sentences of the convicted so far,

* Specialist Charles Graner was found guilty on January 14, 2005 of all charges, including conspiracy to maltreat detainees, failing to protect detainees from abuse, cruelty, and maltreatment, as well as charges of assault, indecency, adultery, and obstruction of justice. On January 15, 2005, he was sentenced to ten years in federal prison.
* Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick pled guilty on October 20, 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault and committing an indecent act in exchange for other charges being dropped. His abuses included making three prisoners masturbate. He also punched one prisoner so hard in the chest that he needed resuscitation. He was sentenced to eight years in prison, forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.
* Jeremy Sivits was sentenced on May 19, 2004 by a special court-martial (less severe than "general"; confinement sentence limited to one year) to the maximum one-year sentence, in addition to being discharged for bad conduct and demoted, upon his plea of guilty.
* Specialist Armin Cruz of the 325th Military Intelligence Battalion was sentenced on September 11, 2004 to eight months confinement, reduction in rank to private and a bad conduct discharge in exchange for his testimony against other soldiers.[20]
* Sabrina Harman was sentenced on May 17, 2005 to six months in prison and a bad conduct discharge after being convicted on six of the seven counts. She had faced a maximum sentence of 5 years.
* Megan Ambuhl was convicted on October 30, 2004, of dereliction of duty and sentenced to reduction in rank to private and loss of a half-month’s pay.
* Lynndie England was convicted on September 26, 2005, of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on a second conspiracy count. England had faced a maximum sentence of ten years, but was sentenced on September 27, 2005, to just 3 years. She received a dishonorable discharge.

The women that are being raped and beaten in Abu ghraib? Thats the western media right there for ya?

What women?

[HeiGou]

Salam Alaikam

So some say Oh Look what they did cutting the Heads off, Did they not say leave their land for they did not do anything to hurt anyone else?

Why is the head cutting off only occuring In IraQ?


BECAUSE USA BRITISH INVADED THE LAND WITH NO JUSTIFCATION

Weapons of Mass destruction?
Nothing Found

What else is there need to be said?

Well there is something else. Three Indonesian school girls had their heads cut off the other month.

Odd that head cutting does not take place only in Iraq.

Perhaps you might like to tell me why you think these girls were attacked by men who appear to have considered themselves good Muslims?

[mahdisoldier19]

Assalama Alaikam

Well those are very nice figures, i wonder what happens when their lawyers appeal for good conduct in prison of these soldiers they will get a mere few years. OH And i forgot to mention i went to a federal Prison, For soldiers its heaven, they get congradulated by other prisoners for being heros except the Sheikhs, and imams think otherwise.

Ok what women hmmm i think you should read up on this to be honest im not going to search deep in this. But after a friend of mine who was in iraq noted to me that mistreatment of women and how they were beaten, some raped id take his word for it. thats just Me you can think otherwise

[mahdisoldier19]

Well there is something else. Three Indonesian school girls had their heads cut off the other month.

Odd that head cutting does not take place only in Iraq.

Perhaps you might like to tell me why you think these girls were attacked by men who appear to have considered themselves good Muslims?

Note me where it says Good Muslim Men Attacked Indonesian Girl,

Like in Afghanistan that women who got shot in the head by the taliban that was bad right? very harsh ya think>?

[HeiGou]

As for you, I will fix you abit

Hmmm, perhaps you might like to expand on that in case anyone misunderstands your words?

First of all, Saudia arabia and iran have been monarchies for thousands of years. America what 250+ years and what decaying ?

Saudi Arabia dates to the 1920s. Iran is not a monarchy and when it was, its ruling dynasty produced all of two, yep two, Shahs before being overthrown.

I await news of the corruption of US society.

[mahdisoldier19]

Hmmm, perhaps you might like to expand on that in case anyone misunderstands your words?



Saudi Arabia dates to the 1920s. Iran is not a monarchy and when it was, its ruling dynasty produced all of two, yep two, Shahs before being overthrown.

I await news of the corruption of US society.

I dont know you understood me but my defination of Monarchy is Kingdom,

If you know your history on saudi arabia and Iran they have been kingdoms for hundreds if not thousands and still are in power.

You await the news of the corruption of US Society?
What exactly do you want and where do you want it? I dont know what your asking here?

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

I'm still waiting for condemnation of the mass-murder of innocent civillians.

If you believe that the bombings are justified, I can respect that. I respect honesty. It means that you are strong enough to stand up for what you believe even if it isn't popular. But calling Islam a religion of peace is a stretch if you feel that the London bombings are justifiable. Is it not a sin to Islam to lie?

The london bombings was a bad thing that happened, and sadly they were caused by people who happened to be muslim - this don't mean diddly squat my friend: not every muslim has to now apologise for those few idiots. Same can be said for the denmark issue.

If you wanna talk about justification, how bout nagisaki and hiroshima. Cus they sure as hell weren't justified.

p.s. I am against mass-murder of innocent civilians, I believe that there are more effective ways of dealing with these kinds of situations, a little thing I like to call: negotiations. That being said, do not try and fight me in the middle of the streets, I have stated before, I'll whoop your butt good - I aint no pacifist, push me and you gonna get pushed back.

[Wahid]

The truth is that I could not even force my self to look at this. Neither did I forced myself watching the slicing throats of hostages that was everywhere on the Internet at that time. I do not want to see evilness that close I know it is out there in the world but I do not want to watch it. It has nothing to do with not seeing the truth.

Beating up someone, especially a child/youth in hate, is always wrong. How can anyone defend that kind of behaviour? Not me anyway. There is no sane human that can tell you this is all right so I certainly not will tell you that. Evilness is never a thing to defend. Evilness has nothing to do with religion.

Yous should watch itto see how disgusting it is...:heated: :heated: the sick and twisted camraman was shouting "oh yess" loadly as the kids were been beaten... AstagfrAllah Sickening...

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
I didnt like the video btw, crap quality. From what I did understand of it, it's really bad - soldiers hitting civilians - CIVILIANS. Jeez can't even play by the rules properly.

[HeiGou]

:sl:
I didnt like the video btw, crap quality. From what I did understand of it, it's really bad - soldiers hitting civilians - CIVILIANS. Jeez can't even play by the rules properly.

According to the media I have seen it shows British soldiers beating four young rioters they had arrested.

That is pretty bad. But let's keep things in perspective. A teacher fled Pakistan the other day after being caught chaining boys up and flogging them if they did not study. He is not the only one either.

[Tasneem]

Thts terrible

Who would do that to kidz?

Im telling you,those soldiers have problems

SaLaMz

[Muezzin]

Anyone who brutalises another like that is a -------. An illegitimate child, if that word doesn't get through the censors.

[Wahid]

:sl:
I didnt like the video btw, crap quality. From what I did understand of it, it's really bad - soldiers hitting civilians - CIVILIANS. Jeez can't even play by the rules properly.

i agree....:grumbling
but the quality wasnt bad... maybe u got real slow interenet

[HeiGou]

Note me where it says Good Muslim Men Attacked Indonesian Girl,

Like in Afghanistan that women who got shot in the head by the taliban that was bad right? very harsh ya think>?

I did not say they were good Muslim men. I said they considered themselves good Muslim men.

They were walking to school. How bad can school girls get?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4390120.stm

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

According to the media I have seen it shows British soldiers beating four young rioters they had arrested.

That is pretty bad. But let's keep things in perspective. A teacher fled Pakistan the other day after being caught chaining boys up and flogging them if they did not study. He is not the only one either.

That guy is a moron and way out of line, just like the soldiers in the vid.

but the quality wasnt bad... maybe u got real slow interenet

I'm on NTL 1 mb. Crap quality as in shakey camera and considerably far away.

[mahdisoldier19]

I did not say they were good Muslim men. I said they considered themselves good Muslim men.

They were walking to school. How bad can school girls get?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4390120.stm

Note in the article it states:

The area has a long history of violence between Muslims and Christians.

'Sadistic and inhuman'

How come you got no articles on what the christians do to the Muslims?

[HeiGou]

Well those are very nice figures, i wonder what happens when their lawyers appeal for good conduct in prison of these soldiers they will get a mere few years. OH And i forgot to mention i went to a federal Prison, For soldiers its heaven, they get congradulated by other prisoners for being heros except the Sheikhs, and imams think otherwise.

You went to Federal prison? I won't ask.

We will see what happens if and when they appeal.

Ok what women hmmm i think you should read up on this to be honest im not going to search deep in this. But after a friend of mine who was in iraq noted to me that mistreatment of women and how they were beaten, some raped id take his word for it. thats just Me you can think otherwise

So we seem to be at the standard level of proof for some on this website. For the kaffir media, no level of evidence is good enough - the BBC says it? Must be a lie. You hear something from a friend of a friend and you swear it is true. Why would I take his word for it? You mean the word of a man who is patriotically fighting to free his land of colonial oppressors? That would be worth a little lie wouldn't it? The fact is not a single woman has come forward to say she was raped in Abu Ghraib. There is an allegation that an Iraqi detainee saw an Iraqi prison guard rape a woman, but that is, as far as I know, all.

[HeiGou]

Note in the article it states:

The area has a long history of violence between Muslims and Christians.

'Sadistic and inhuman'

How come you got no articles on what the christians do to the Muslims?

Find me an incident where a Christian, or any believer of any religion apart from Islam, beheads a Muslim and I will mention it. There has been sadistic and inhuman violence in the Celebes and other places like Timor and Papua. But they all tend to have one thing in common - dead Christians. Not dead Muslims.

[wysiwyg]

Oh yeah you help stop these things you stop them right?

Guantamano bay? What happen the media the soldiers OH THATS RIGHT THE SOLDIERS GOT ONLY A FEW MONTHS

Oh These soldiers im sure they will be contragadulated by other prison mates.
Dont give me that trying to justify your way.

The women that are being raped and beaten in Abu ghraib? Thats the western media right there for ya?

OHHH WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!!! your talking about the western media that never showed the bin laden tape where he denied the 9/11 attacks Oh that Media!

Uh oh wait a minute you forgot to add my friend the media that states its true.

First of all you if you live in the west know the Media never gives the true story of things in majority of cases?

Truth is never absolute, you should know that. The best one can ever do is enable equal voice to both sides.

The Media (peace be upon them) work hard to ensure that the Muslim voice is heard. It is difficult to make it heard equally, but no one is trying forcibly to stop anyone from doing so, except maybe governments. There will always be killing. What I am trying to say here is that by putting too much power in governments like the federal government of the US you get things like Guantanamo Bay. (A couple of months imprisonment is better than nothing at this stage.) The same government is currently stopping a third political party (The Greens) from competing in the Senate along with the republicans and democrats. The US needs to be made more democratic than it is. It is absurd that a president who got in by a margin in 2000 has absolute power over US military. There need to be more political parties and the federal elections need to be conducted in a more democratic manner. Those changes will happen.

The power the US government has over its citizens is weak compared to governments in countries with shari'a law where they are able to stop media (peace be upon them) from witnessing violence taken out on innocent people by the government and prevent other people from sharing power through democratic elections.

[HeiGou]

That guy is a moron and way out of line, just like the soldiers in the vid.

Don't you think it is odd that there are threads devoted for three year old tape from Iraq - which show teenaged rioters being beaten by soldiers but silence over similar or worse incidents in the Muslim world? Take this one for instance. Who heard of this?

Mullah sought after boys flee school in chains
By Massoud Ansari in Karachi
(Filed: 05/02/2006)

Pakistani police have issued an arrest warrant for a mullah at one of the country's Islamic schools after two young pupils claimed to have been beaten up and kept in chains for failing to memorise Koranic scripture.

Mohammad Ammar, eight, and Ahsan Mawia, 10, were found crawling through the streets in shackles in the dead of night after fleeing in terror from a strict school in Karachi. The pair were in a "hysterical state" and showed "visible sign of torture", according to police who examined them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5/ixworld.html

[mahdisoldier19]

Don't you think it is odd that there are threads devoted for three year old tape from Iraq - which show teenaged rioters being beaten by soldiers but silence over similar or worse incidents in the Muslim world? Take this one for instance. Who heard of this?



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5/ixworld.html

Again, i dont know how many times you have to explain it to this guy

The people disrupt the religion, Islam is Perfect

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Haven't come across that article until you just posted it now :). I'm not one of those who says: "oh every non-muslim is bad, bad, bad and a muslim can do no wrong - if media shows him doing wrong its not the truth" etc. But, you do have to remember that although Islam is a peaceful religion, not every muslim is a peaceful person. I don't agree with that nutcase shackling students - there is NO justification for that action. None.

[abdul Majid]

is that giving people freedom, by beating little kids??

[PIE]ooohh wait, does this mean that all british troops are like this...OOHH I SEE .....OHHHH BUT WHEN A MUSLIM BOMBS SOMETHING HE REPRESENTS ALL OF ISLAM....OOOHHH II SEEEE ??????[/PIE]

[Blue_Moon]

:sl:

oh...godthat is mean... :offended: :offended: i had to cry

when i seen that..:offended:

:sl:

[HeiGou]

Again, i dont know how many times you have to explain it to this guy

The people disrupt the religion, Islam is Perfect

I have not said a word about, much less against, the religion. Some people here are getting very upset over footage of something done in Iraq by British troops. Fair enough. It sounds brutal. All I did was ask why no one cares about boys treated much worse in Pakistan. Explain that to me.

[HeiGou]

[QUOTE=aamirsaab;182191]:sl:
Haven't come across that article until you just posted it now :). I'm not one of those who says: "oh every non-muslim is bad, bad, bad and a muslim can do no wrong - if media shows him doing wrong its not the truth" etc. But, you do have to remember that although Islam is a peaceful religion, not every muslim is a peaceful person. [/quoite]

Yes. I know. Some Muslim said recently something about whooping peoples butts in the street. I am well aware that not every Muslim is a peaceful person. But that is not the issue. Why is everyone upset about this now when they weren't upset at all, as far as I can see, about that then?

No one is saying every Muslim is bad and every non-Muslim is good. But surely fairness is important here. You think much worse things don't go on in every other Muslim country on the planet? The Egyptian police killed 57 Sudanese refugees the other day. They were not even rioting, but peacefully sitting down in protest against the UNHCR's delay in sending them anywhere else but Egypt. Not a peep of protest from anyone?

So the British soldiers beat some teenagers who were rioting. Bad. But compared to what?

I don't agree with that nutcase shackling students - there is NO justification for that action. None.

And yet he seemed to think it would make them learn the Quran.

[abdul Majid]

You Know What I Think Heigou, As You Can See The Media Plays A Very Very Important Role In This........if You Can See It People Will Get Angry , But If We Havent Heard About It , Then How Would We Know,,,,, Just Like Millions Of Things Going On In The World That Relate To What You Said

[abdul Majid]

ooohh wait, does this mean that all british troops are like this...OOHH I SEE .....OHHHH BUT WHEN A MUSLIM BOMBS SOMETHING HE REPRESENTS ALL OF ISLAM....OOOHHH II SEEEE ?????? <---- YOU UNDERSTAND ME RIGHT

[HeiGou]

You Know What I Think Heigou, As You Can See The Media Plays A Very Very Important Role In This........if You Can See It People Will Get Angry , But If We Havent Heard About It , Then How Would We Know,,,,, Just Like Millions Of Things Going On In The World That Relate To What You Said

Actually I think pictures play a huge role in it. People do not feel deeply what they cannot see with their own eyes. But the TV makes it more real than reality. Just reading about it does not affect people in the same way.

So I understand why people get so upset, but I still think a little bit of proportion is needed here. Bad things happen. Even in Iraq this is hardly the worst - they find torture chambers run by the Interior Ministry these days.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

So the British soldiers beat some teenagers who were rioting. Bad. But compared to what?

Bad compared to what the average human is capable of doing. Sadly, I am dissapointed with certain human actions.

And yet he seemed to think it would make them learn the Quran.

That might have been his intention, but shackling students is disgusting and wrong, ethically and morally.

I'm not saying that certain muslim countries don't perform disgusting actions, no. Nor am I justifying it - I don't care what country or nationality you are: If you kill/injure civilians, in my eyes, you are a walking turd. Perhaps, if more attention was given to these acts from muslim countries then more people would be ranting and raving. Alternatively, we could just be in denial ;)

[Jeness18]

Who is the enemy? One minute...its the bad bad bad Iraqi leaders...then it turns against the Americans and British people...why does there always have to be people fighting? Why can't this world be civilized and not be so negative and hurtful and wrong! I'm an American, hate me as you please...but I don't...I don't like what I saw on that tape...those men who beat those kids should be punished...it was wrong and I'm sorry that those soldiers hurt those people...those people are not only close to you by religion...but I feel they are close to me in a way too- in heart...we can't be against each other when we need to bring all cultures and religions together to stop violence all together.

[abdul Majid]

i agree with you on that hei

[ishkabab]

[MAD]man this video makes ur blood boil.......!!![/MAD]right now im like....*@#%^@&&!^@%#%#^%@#*!@&!*&@#(*!^@!^@*(!@^! &^@&^&@^!&*@^!&@^!^#&@%@$%$@%#R@@!******...hope ful ly when i cool down i'll be back to post...

[abdul Majid]

ameen jenes

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

I remember when 9/11 happened i was in School and some kid was like who HERE IS AFGHAN! i got up I am what you want to say about that?

He just sat down pretty funny considerin everyone thought he was hard but once you get in their face they're soft as cockroach

[anis_z24]

Salam,
So who wants to do something.
Are we going wait for the Muslim orginizations to do something.
If we condem then nothing happens, Don't we ever think about it they(bullies) don't care if we condem or not.
Until when are we going to wait.
Also its wrong that to say lets wait for the Mahdi, because then you did nothing.
I hope all Muslims understand.

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam Dont worry brother youll hear me in a few years : ) Inshallah

[anis_z24]

Salam
Insh'Allah, we(Muslims) will hear from you.
Mean while everyone should build themselves to help this Ummah. And not wait.

[mahdisoldier19]

Assalam Alaikam

I will Tell everyone one thing, This is just the beginning of the opression of the Muslims. It will grow and grow and grow, But then Right on the verge when they think they have Won, Watch for the Mujhadeen from Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran.

[anis_z24]

Salam
No, but watch how Allah will support this Deen even if the non-believers dislike it.
And no matter how worse it gets, we must remember what we are going to say to Allah when he asks us what did we do for this Deen in this situation and the likes of it.

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

Dont think this is the end, They will attempt keyword ATTEMPT to opress this deen more, But Everyone knows They have the guns and weapons All we need is Allah swt..
That is all that satisfies me, All i need is Allah swt and im good Allah is enough for me. I keep my refuge in him.

[Anette]

Yous should watch itto see how disgusting it is...:heated: :heated: the sick and twisted camraman was shouting "oh yess" loadly as the kids were been beaten... AstagfrAllah Sickening...

I read the article - in words. I know I should watch it with my eyes. But as I said it is not because I don't want to “see”. I just feel that if I watch this kind of picture all the time my heart would be filled with hate. I do not want hate into my heart. I look at it as if there were no cameras, pictures of a weekly dose of evilness in the world would be more then any living person should experience for a life.

Reading what the cameraman said is frightening enough. I do not want to see these pictures in my head every time I close my eyes. Maybe I should, maybe I shouldn’t I do not know.

Regarding this thread. I think it is quite meaningless trying to show other evil thinks that happens to justify this evilness. I do not want to compare evilness and grade it. Evil is evil no matter who are committed the acts. As a human I will at the time when I come a cross it tell that it is evil but I do not want to compare it with other evilness. What is the point of saying this is bad - but that was worse? It does not make things better because something else is worse?

I would like to concentrate my thoughts and send them to the parents of these boys and the boys that got beaten. I take a strong stand against this kind of violence.

[Sis786]

:sl:

I was absolutely sicken by this Video! NOT surprised just sickened! For soo long Muslims have talked about the tourture of the Iraqi people in the hands of the British and American Soldiers But i suppose it became a "Story" with No facts!

But now you see it with your own eyes and i see people saying "Oh my god that’s soo bad" and all im thinking is that Ok yes this is sickening BUT lets not forget the other "torture" that is going on and Just because its not on film we should not try and forget it. And that’s the killing of innocent women and children! Im sure you've heard the story of the Pregnant Iraqi women that was shot in the stomach killing her unborn child! And the on going torture of the Iraqi prisoners. Doctors of Iraq a group fighting for Human rights! say that SOME of the methods used to torture the prisoners are, Drilling their fingers, Laying them down in baths of water and putting electric current in that water!, and of course the "Normal" wiping and beating.

"To be honest it makes Saddam look like Mother Theresa"

[HeiGou]

I was absolutely sicken by this Video! NOT surprised just sickened! For soo long Muslims have talked about the tourture of the Iraqi people in the hands of the British and American Soldiers But i suppose it became a "Story" with No facts!

But now you see it with your own eyes and i see people saying "Oh my god that’s soo bad" and all im thinking is that Ok yes this is sickening BUT lets not forget the other "torture" that is going on and Just because its not on film we should not try and forget it. And that’s the killing of innocent women and children! Im sure you've heard the story of the Pregnant Iraqi women that was shot in the stomach killing her unborn child! And the on going torture of the Iraqi prisoners. Doctors of Iraq a group fighting for Human rights! say that SOME of the methods used to torture the prisoners are, Drilling their fingers, Laying them down in baths of water and putting electric current in that water!, and of course the "Normal" wiping and beating.

"To be honest it makes Saddam look like Mother Theresa"

What other torture going on? What innocent women and children? Do you accept that no innocent women and children are being killed deliberately by the British and American soldiers? What pregnant Iraqi woman? What is the evidence of this? What doctors in Iraq claim that British and Americans are drilling their fingers, or electricuting them or whatever? What is your evidence for this? It is odd, it seems to me, that the British and Americans went into this war on the basis of faulty intelligence, but the opponents of this war are using rumor and hearsay and innuendo to justify their actions. It makes Blair and Bush look like Mother Teresa.

[Umu 'Isa]

:sl:
this video is horrible!! WAKE UP MUSLIMS!! look whats happening to our brothers n sisters in islam :(
we are all talk no action..
im sooo sick and tired of all these kuffars
i hate them i hate them i hate them
may Allah (swt) give them guidance and grant victory to the muslim ummah! AMEEN!!!

[HeiGou]

:sl:
this video is horrible!! WAKE UP MUSLIMS!! look whats happening to our brothers n sisters in islam :(
we are all talk no action..
im sooo sick and tired of all these kuffars
i hate them i hate them i hate them
may Allah (swt) give them guidance and grant victory to the muslim ummah! AMEEN!!!

There is something fundamentally wrong with this post, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Could you please explain for me why this particular video produces this sort of response? You do know that much worse happens in the world every day but that people do not film it? Much much worse happens in the Muslim world all the time, but no one cares about that for some reason. Why is this worse than, say, the Egyptian police killing 57 Sudanese refugees the other day? Are you sick and tired of all those Egyptians?

Come to think of it, what have I done recently to cause you to hate me? This forum is full of people saying "oh, that is a minority of Muslims, they are not even real Muslims, you cannot blame all Muslims for the actions of a few". Which is fair enough. But why does that not apply to kaffirs like me too? Why isn't your response simply racism (or as kafir-dom is not really a racial category, incitement to religious hatred)?

So you hate me. Well at least you're honest about it.

[Umu 'Isa]

stuff like this happens to muslims around the world every day. Every where we are bein attacked by non muslims. On the media, on the streets. Doesnt have to be physical it can be verbal abuse aswell. Eventually we are goin 2 get sick n tired of it.
non believers who rejected the truth are kuffars and i was refering to the ones that do give us trouble not people like you!
it wasn't a personal attack :)

[S_87]

:sl:

la hawla wa la quwwata illah billah

[HeiGou]

stuff like this happens to muslims around the world every day. Every where we are bein attacked by non muslims. On the media, on the streets. Doesnt have to be physical it can be verbal abuse aswell. Eventually we are goin 2 get sick n tired of it.
non believers who rejected the truth are kuffars and i was refering to the ones that do give us trouble not people like you!
it wasn't a personal attack :)

Sorry I was confused by the word "all" in your sentence. Stuff like this does happen to Muslim, and others, all around the world and pretty much every day. So why are you especially upset about this particular incident at this particular time? What is it about British soldiers and batons that upsets you more than Egyptian, or Saudi, or whatever? To take one comparison, every now and then they find piles of bodies of young girls in Algeria. They have been kidnapped by either the Radicals or the Army, repeatedly raped, and then killed. Yet I do not hear any complaint about that at all.

And I am not a Muslim. I have, in your view, rejected the Truth.

[Umu 'Isa]

How do you know I don't feel the same way when I hear about other things happening to the muslims. You don't. You know my views on the video of the soldiers bashing the iraqi children because this is what the topic is about. It isn't a debate, it's a thread about a video. We don't need to have a discussion about my views of the world. It's not a suitable thread to do so in.
Peace :)

[Smok]

As I said in other thread - real warriors don't fight with civilians. It is very easy to beat a kid if you have a gun.

[Salaam]

Salaam,

These soldiers are cowards, bitting up kids....

[Sis786]

What other torture going on? What innocent women and children? Do you accept that no innocent women and children are being killed deliberately by the British and American soldiers? What pregnant Iraqi woman? What is the evidence of this? What doctors in Iraq claim that British and Americans are drilling their fingers, or electricuting them or whatever? What is your evidence for this? It is odd, it seems to me, that the British and Americans went into this war on the basis of faulty intelligence, but the opponents of this war are using rumor and hearsay and innuendo to justify their actions. It makes Blair and Bush look like Mother Teresa.

I think its about time that YOU stopped taking your information from the BBC and The Daily Express and maybe broaden your mind a little. You want to see some of the torturing that the Americans and other Troops have done in Iraq. Click this.

http://islamonline.net/english/In_De...topic_10.shtml

[partysoverkids]

It's not cool to kick kids asses, but it's not smart to throw rocks at guys with guns, either. They're lucky they didn't get shot.

[Nabal12]

Don't you think we should weigh the difference between a gun and a rock? Gun-----Rock.....big difference. These soldiers are disgusting and what makes them more disgusting is how they just continued to beat and abuse these children while they were down. They teach us not to do this in school but in the real world, I guess it happens. I'm sure some of them have children of their own, don't they think of them while they do all this? Do they not have a conscience as well?

[partysoverkids]

Gun and rock is a big difference. That's probably why they weren't shot. The Brits figured shooting was too strong a reaction but an ass-beating might be a "learning" experience. Who knows ? It's still not bright to throw rocks at people with guns.

[Nabal12]

I dont think they really needed that beating at all. They were only children! They were just defending their land and trying to prevent soldiers like that from hurting anymore children. And the commentary wasn't that good either, now was it. He was swearing and laughing evily but why? I ask this again, do these people have a conscience at ALL?

[partysoverkids]

I didn't get the audio on it. I'm not saying it was a cool thing to do. It doesn't serve any good purpose. But those kids are putting themselves in a very dangerous situation when they get out there and do that kind of stuff.

[Nabal12]

Yes you're absolutely right. But why dont you think about it this way, why did they start doing all the throwing in the first place? Why are there still soldiers in Iraq? Bush himself pretty much gave an apology and admitted to not finding any weapons of mass destruction. Okay so he said he got Saddam, but now he's gone. What's the excuse now?

[partysoverkids]

Part of the reason we are still there is to keep a civil war from breaking out. I don't think we figured on this happening. Not only are Iraqis killing us, they're killing each other. The Shia are getting revenge on the Sunnis for all the years of abuse under Sadaam. There are some Iraqis who do recognise this and don't want us to leave just yet. I don't want us there one day longer than we need to be. But the Iraqi Army needs to get stronger so they can take care of themselves.

[Nabal12]

You're saying they cannot live together and that you're stopping a civil war but then what is the Iraqi army made up of? Both the sunni's a shia's together? If not, then how is having on dominant sect in the army going to help the country. And since this is still the thread about the UK troops brutally abusing the Iraqi teens, then how does kicking children help stop a civil war?

[partysoverkids]

Yes, the Army is made of both sects. And Kurds, too. That is one of the problems they are having, getting enough guys who are willing to put past animosities behind and get on with building a new country. I do think if all foriegn troops left Iraq tomorrow, there would be chaos, big time.

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

I cant believe someone wants to actually justify these beatings wow.

[partysoverkids]

It's not cool to kick kids asses, but it's not smart to throw rocks at guys with guns, either. They're lucky they didn't get shot.

Who was justifying it ?

[Ru'ya]

حسبنا الله و نعم الوكيل


Hasbuna Allahu wa ne'm alwakil

[Malsidabym]

I watched the beatings on the tape and could not believe that they could do that to kids, or any civilian for that matter. Kind of sick to watch. There is no justification for beating those kids.

As I said in other thread - real warriors don't fight with civilians.

I agree completely. That is why palestinian fighters should not target israeli civilians, and Iraqi sunnis and shias should not kill each other, and u.s. soldiers should not beat up kids.

He was swearing and laughing evily but why? I ask this again, do these people have a conscience at ALL?

seems like a few don't. You are right.

Salaam, These soldiers are cowards, bitting up kids....

again, I absolutley agree. It is the same as a man with a bomb blowing up a woman and her children sitting beside him on a bus. All the hate sucks.

[Umar001]

Hmmm, I mean, these kids, did throw rocks, and a rock could hurt, and I mean personally, if these soldiers were being stoned, then I dont see why it would be wrong to shoot, but....


Once the kids were detained, and all tied and bound, this is where the transgression begins as I see it.

No way, can countries who say we bring peace and democracy and so forth, then come with such armies who abuse, and attack and humiliate, enialate, disintergrate people under their authority, how can this type of army bring justice?

another evidence that these armies should first settle justice as they call it to their own places and to their own squads.

And who knows the number of times this happens :(

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Threads merged.

:w:

[HeiGou]

Hmmm, I mean, these kids, did throw rocks, and a rock could hurt, and I mean personally, if these soldiers were being stoned, then I dont see why it would be wrong to shoot, but....

Once the kids were detained, and all tied and bound, this is where the transgression begins as I see it.

No way, can countries who say we bring peace and democracy and so forth, then come with such armies who abuse, and attack and humiliate, enialate, disintergrate people under their authority, how can this type of army bring justice?

another evidence that these armies should first settle justice as they call it to their own places and to their own squads.

And who knows the number of times this happens :(

Soldiers are bad at keeping law and order. They were faced with rioters. They are not much older than the rock thrower - basically children just out of school. So they did wrong. This is somehow unexpected? The Egyptian police killed 57 Sudanese protesters the other day - peaceful ones too. Iraq has had a break down in law and order. There are no police. Justice will inevitably be rough and ready. I do not deny this is a bad thing, but in the global scale of injustice do you think this is the worst thing going on in the world at present? Do you even think it is the worst thing going on in the Arab world at present?

As for peace and democracy, why do you think something like that? It strikes me as naive to demand perfection to bring about justice. Sometimes, in fact most of the time, imperfect people make imperfect solutions. Sometimes those are better than what was there before. To take a parallel, the Americans fought World War Two with a segregated Army. Blacks were oppressed in the South. Britain fought with an Imperial Army and oppressed much of the Third World. Did they achieve a just outcome? Not perfect, but better than what was there before.

Can anyone doubt that whatever the stupidity and clumsiness that the Americans operate with, they intend to do for Iraq what they did for Japan - create a stable, peaceful, prosperous democratic country?

[mahdisoldier19]

Soldiers are bad at keeping law and order. They were faced with rioters. They are not much older than the rock thrower - basically children just out of school. So they did wrong. This is somehow unexpected? The Egyptian police killed 57 Sudanese protesters the other day - peaceful ones too. Iraq has had a break down in law and order. There are no police. Justice will inevitably be rough and ready. I do not deny this is a bad thing, but in the global scale of injustice do you think this is the worst thing going on in the world at present? Do you even think it is the worst thing going on in the Arab world at present?

As for peace and democracy, why do you think something like that? It strikes me as naive to demand perfection to bring about justice. Sometimes, in fact most of the time, imperfect people make imperfect solutions. Sometimes those are better than what was there before. To take a parallel, the Americans fought World War Two with a segregated Army. Blacks were oppressed in the South. Britain fought with an Imperial Army and oppressed much of the Third World. Did they achieve a just outcome? Not perfect, but better than what was there before.

Can anyone doubt that whatever the stupidity and clumsiness that the Americans operate with, they intend to do for Iraq what they did for Japan - create a stable, peaceful, prosperous democratic country?

And what you dont seem to understand is, Not everyone Agrees with democracy. You cant force people to agree with democracy. Islam is their religion and Islam is their law and you cant change that without a fight.

[Kittygyal]

very true Mahdislodier19

[HeiGou]

And what you dont seem to understand is, Not everyone Agrees with democracy. You cant force people to agree with democracy. Islam is their religion and Islam is their law and you cant change that without a fight.

Yet the vast majority of people seem to love democracy. Even the majority of Iraqis. I agree, you cannot force people to agree with democracy, and if the Iraqis, or anyone else, wishes to elect a repressive dictatorship I am perfectly content with that. But I expect they will not do so if given a chance.

No one is suggesting that Islam ought to be replaced. I believe there is such a thing as Islamic democracy. Islamic law cannot cover all cases. There is a need for on-going interpretation and explanation. There is a need for "canon" law to make it clear what is acceptable in the modern period - all entirely consistently with Islam. Maududi talks about what an Islamic state can and cannot do in terms of law and I have no problems with that.

In fact I think that the cartoon fuss has been created as a deliberate attempt to stiffle democracy in the Middle East. Now the conservatives can point to the cartoons as a product of democracy without thinking about how the two can go together. We will see if most Arabs agree with them. I see the Egyptian government has delayed elections for two years. I bet most Egyptian Muslims would like to see more democracy.

[mahdisoldier19]

Yet the vast majority of people seem to love democracy. Even the majority of Iraqis. I agree, you cannot force people to agree with democracy, and if the Iraqis, or anyone else, wishes to elect a repressive dictatorship I am perfectly content with that. But I expect they will not do so if given a chance.

No one is suggesting that Islam ought to be replaced. I believe there is such a thing as Islamic democracy. Islamic law cannot cover all cases. There is a need for on-going interpretation and explanation. There is a need for "canon" law to make it clear what is acceptable in the modern period - all entirely consistently with Islam. Maududi talks about what an Islamic state can and cannot do in terms of law and I have no problems with that.

In fact I think that the cartoon fuss has been created as a deliberate attempt to stiffle democracy in the Middle East. Now the conservatives can point to the cartoons as a product of democracy without thinking about how the two can go together. We will see if most Arabs agree with them. I see the Egyptian government has delayed elections for two years. I bet most Egyptian Muslims would like to see more democracy.

Peace and blessings upon you

Thats problaly the smartest thing from my point of view that youve said to me so far haha keep it up

[mahuruf]

“Oppression is prohibited and opposing it is a duty. Zulm (unjust treatment) is one of the most prohibited acts because it defies Islam’s chief message of justice”

[cihad]

Its Funny

When A Muslim Kills Abuses Or Does Anything Like That They Are An Islamic Terrorist

When A Christian Or Jew Or Buddist Or Whatever Does The Same
Their Religion Is Never Mentioned

I Mean They Didn't Say Christian/jewish Troops Beat Up Children ,did They?

But If They Were Muslim...islamic Terrorist!!

[HeiGou]

Its Funny

When A Muslim Kills Abuses Or Does Anything Like That They Are An Islamic Terrorist

When A Christian Or Jew Or Buddist Or Whatever Does The Same
Their Religion Is Never Mentioned

I Mean They Didn't Say Christian/jewish Troops Beat Up Children ,did They?

But If They Were Muslim...islamic Terrorist!!

Actually in the vast majority of cases if Muslims abuse anyone, no one cares. It is perhaps a lingering legacy of racism and colonialism. You can see this in the news. If Muslims kill other Muslims, no one cares. Not even most Muslims to be honest - look at how much time this BB spends on "hot button" issues like Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan and how little it spends on Sudan or Algeria. Partly this is probably because there is a lack of good TV footage of such crimes, but mostly it is probably that Western people do not care much.

When Muslims abuse First World people, then the West cares. A lot. But the reasons for that are invariably political, which is to say, these days, religious. If Islamist radicals kill tourists in Egypt, it is because they are Islamist radicals not because they are Egyptians or Africans or whatever. It makes sense to discuss Islamist violence in terms of the justification the terrorists use - and they use Islam as an excuse. What other term would you use to describe them?

I would be interested to know of any Buddhist terrorists anywhere in the world. For that matter I would be interested to know of any Christian terrorists anywhere in the world (although there are some they are so insignificant I doubt anyone can think of one offhand). What there have been in the recent past is Marxist-Leninist Terrorists. Some people used to be Christians, and then became Marxist-Leninists and terrorists. They are usually describes for exactly what they are. The IRA is invariably called "Republican" because that is what justifies their violence. The PLO used to be called a Arab Socialist or Marxist-Leninist group because that is what they were. The DFLP even more so. Hamas is called an Islamist group because that is what they are.

Soldiers who are Christians or Jews do beat up children. We all know that. But they do not do so because they are Christian or Jewish. They do so because they are keeping law and order or because they are Zionists. What counts is what motivates them. Not what they are on Sundays. If a terrorist is motivated by his interpretation of Islam - no matter how wrong you may think that interpretation is - what else would you call him?

[aamirsaab]

Soldiers who are Christians or Jews do beat up children. We all know that. But they do not do so because they are Christian or Jewish. They do so because they are keeping law and order or because they are Zionists. What counts is what motivates them. Not what they are on Sundays.

Same could be said about muslim soldiers, no?

If a terrorist is motivated by his interpretation of Islam - no matter how wrong you may think that interpretation is - what else would you call him?

What about the KKK, surely they fit in the same category.

[j4763]

I would not call the men who were attacked children. There are men, maybe young men but still adults. Although it still doesn’t make it right.
The fact that a lot of people were/are saying that the troops were beating children just goes to show that this war is turning into a propaganda war.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

I would not call the men who were attacked children. There are men, maybe young men but still adults. Although it still doesn’t make it right.
The fact that a lot of people were/are saying that the troops were beating children just goes to show that this war is turning into a propaganda war.

Most wars are propaganda.

[HeiGou]

Same could be said about muslim soldiers, no?

For some soldiers who happen to be Muslims, sure. But some soldiers are not just soldiers who happen to be Muslims, they are Muslim soldiers. Their cause and motivation is Islam. I assume some of them beat up children too in some circumstances.

What about the KKK, surely they fit in the same category.

Well not these days. But at one time they would have seen what they were doing in religious terms.

[mahdisoldier19]

Speaking of wars propaganda , EVERY WAR BASICALLY is almost propoganda

Pearl harbor If the united states never had that attack the economy would of been much worse to lead them out the depression

9/11 perfect excuse to invade muslim countries for oil money and above all DEMOCRACY!

[partysoverkids]

9/11 perfect excuse to invade muslim countries for oil money and above all DEMOCRACY!

So how do you figure 9/11 "really" went down. Lets have your best conspiracy theory. I think I know how this is gonna go, but give it to us, anyway. The more twisted, the better !!

[mahdisoldier19]

Salam Alaikam

Peace and blessings upon you,

the more twisted?

First lets take into consideratin what a theory is.

A theory is a probable explanation in the persons perspective supported by evidence that can be proven wrong or right.

It has been established evidence that 9/11 may have had Controversial Issues. If you watch the loose change 9/11 second edition video. I will point out to how to go it simply video.google.com then type in Loose change 9/11. Then choose the second edition loose change 9/11 . And you will get your story. Considering im from NYC alot of firefighters have died and have experience, and when hearing from their perspective what happened. I dont think anyone is lieing here.

Do you?

[partysoverkids]

Dude. You got to be kidding me ? That waste of cellulose has been discredited a million times over. See what I'm saying about conspiracy theories on this site ? Some people just can't get enough.

[Malsidabym]

Hi cihad,

Its Funny

When A Muslim Kills Abuses Or Does Anything Like That They Are An Islamic Terrorist

When A Christian Or Jew Or Buddist Or Whatever Does The Same
Their Religion Is Never Mentioned

I Mean They Didn't Say Christian/jewish Troops Beat Up Children ,did They?

But If They Were Muslim...islamic Terrorist!!

I would offer a possible explanation to this. Usually when a muslim murders/executes someone for various political/religious reasons, they state who they are and what the cause is. Therefore offering a 'nametag' for the media to snatch for headlines. On the otherhand, it is rare to see other people who murder or oppress others state thier religion or claim responsibility. With soldiers from western countries, it is difficult to assume they are from any religion, because there are many different religions in western countries. Would be a little embarrasing to say 'christian soldiers beat kids" only to find they were sikhs or athiests.

[Umar001]

I do agree, Muslim people tend to give it away with the cries of Allahu Akbar before perpetrating a crime.

At the same time, the person whom sent USA to war, how many bibles did he have lol

and what did one of the soldiers put on the quran? a cross?

what did one get pictures with? My God is better than yours?

I dont care whether they are labelled anything and yep, it sure is harder to tell, since they dont say Allahu Akbar, nor in the Name of Jesus.
They tend to just laugh and swear in the videos, sure shows their faith aint too strong, IF THEY HAVE ONE.

but thats life man.

NO need to label noone after a crime, unless that person makes it clear that he done it for a reason.

peace be with you